Breakups and Betrayal, Not Great for Business
Rob: but it just might take four days to get to get published five days to publish. Hey, look, we're recording Adam. Adam Stone: Hello, Robert, how are you? Rob: I'm lovely. I just like that. The first communication we had other than not getting your mic to work was Robert, press the button, press the record button. Now
Adam Stone: press the button. Let's record it. Rob: We've got stuff to say. This is a this is a big pod. Adam Stone: Hey, I just wanted to let you let the viewers at home know that. It's like 4:30am. Where you are, it's dark outside your commitment to the pod is just next level. We all
appreciate that. Rob: Could could could we say unparalleled? Adam Stone: unparalleled? Correct? Yeah, Rob, we got a man it was. It was it was a spicy weekend. Pickleball be played at the nationals. Don't want to forget about that. But quite quite a situation. Yeah, so I have lots happening. Yeah, I'll have to say I was actually the first person to make a post. I
had never really done something like that publicly before. Rob: No. That's not what you do. You're behind the scenes low key, you don't really cause of fuss. And Adam, I like the side
of you where you raise concerns and issues. And you get a conversation started because you know what conversations and pickleball are important, especially when it comes to stuff like this. So thank you for get Adam Stone: well I appreciate that, Robert. I mean, I had to
get prof to help me to know how to post. Post so yeah, so it was basically I kind of the kind of waffle back and forth. actually messaged at least Jones early in the tournament because we did the breakdown in the preview for nationals. And we knew that
Elise was playing with Katherine. So I saw the draw. I saw the draw. And it was Catherine and Anna Lee. And I kind of messaged Elise, and I was like, Hey, do you have any details on this partner switch and women's doubles? I have no doubt something shady went on. And then she of course was like, Oh, let me tell you. And so we kind of had a we kind of had a back and forth had a couple pros that I'm absolutely not going to name text with me a little bit. Just about like kind of what's
going on. And Rob: before before we get into the nitty gritty of like, like reactions, what happened let's let's just give some context to people that might like because not everybody's not aware that listens is super aware of necessarily like what happened or what what went on. So you mind given just some context around the whole scenario, I suppose. Adam Stone: Well, actually, you know what, I have a little at least Jones just did an Instagram response to she did a big post talking about nationals. And then she did a
detailed response to someone who commented and so basically what happened was okay, so her and Megan DS on her normal partner, at least Jones tried to sign up for the tournament about a month ago. They were denied entry. And you know, they didn't think much of it. They knew they were late so they couldn't get in whatever they missed. This is a whole this is a whole issue within itself. But continue Oh, big time. Me you Corinne car all tried to get in this tournament about around the same time and we were denied and I didn't really think much of it, Robert Yeah. And I was like, we were late, whatever. So we understood that we were late and moved on then the week of the tournament, Catherine asked me to play and I agreed USA pickleball let Catherine and I register and get in which was frustrating to me and Megan from there but but I decided to play with Catherine then once Lee got hurt Catherine and Anna Lee started talking and I have some pretty solid I mean I didn't see it but some pretty solid information that before Lee was even off the court.
Athena was talking to Mr. Waters. I have to say I heard I mean just cut throat right on it before they even knew like full fledged details about lease entry which is entries are the frickin worst. Please Lee hope it's not too serious. Then once we got Catherine I started talking so then so then they just needed to chat with me as I walked up to Catherine's manager and Anna Lee Papa waters. I knew this was already a done deal knowing Katherine's history with dropping partners. So what was the point of throwing a fit? No point. So I said I was fine with
it. As long as me and Megan DS on could get into the tournament. Katherine's manager said she would make that happen at 4:30pm The day before the tournament started. As I started processing the whole situation myself, Megan Dijon and some other pros thought it was jacked up to do a last minute switch. If anything I would need to find a partner that wasn't already in a partnership. I told the turn tournament director at 6pm that that situation was messed up Hold on one second, but if he did make the decision then he better let me and Megan play for sure. However, Megan D's on already had plans to be with her
family and she decided to play shows she declined to play and told the tournament director she was not an option around 7pm Then I got a call from Catherine parentals manager Athena at 930 that Anna Lee and Catherine Pinto were allowed to play. I then asked since I didn't have a partner if CP and owl could partner at another upcoming tournament and it was declined with Rob: this so this is 9:30pm the night before they're playing correct chi Correct? Adam Stone: Okay, I with frustration I quickly got off the phone with Catherine parentals manager I asked for only my expenses to be paid for and Catherine print those manager agreed which worked out which I was truly grateful for even though I lost the chance on competing for money so the money was not offered blood money. Yeah. Well the funny thing is that the money the money wasn't offered as like a peace offering it was asked for by Elise at the last moment so just just crazy sequence of events that all these things can happen late into the evening the day before a tournament and Catherine parentals manager has the pull to make things happen with the draw and whatever else so just after this this message is a little bit more detailed Robert was already obviously not okay but even with some of these extra details even more ridiculous So Rob: yeah, that's a timeline makes it worse in my opinion. Yeah. For at least to be going to bed not knowing whether or
not her partner is going to play with her to the next day is terrible. Adam Stone: Yeah, no, absolutely. So that's that's basically the story in a nutshell. And and like, and like you said, Rob, there's, there's multiple, like little things that aren't great about this. It's not just the whole thing as a whole there's little compartmentalize to little things that are very bad as well. So you know, it's, it's, it's too bad. And
Rob: who's I see I see a lot of blame being placed at different places, right, I still blame and rightfully so being placed on Katherine and Athena. I see, you know, some some blame being directed towards USA pickleball in the tournament director who is that done? Pavan, I believe it is Don Pavan, not his first controversy this year, if I remember the US Open debacle of you know, saying paddles are going to pass and the little video. So So Don's on the spotlight and welcome back down. And then then, then thirdly, we have blame being placed towards and leave which, or let's just say the waters, you know, Anneliese, what, 1516 years old, she will say the team, but her parents have a responsibility here to also do the right thing, in my opinion. And I don't think they did that. And I don't I
don't think any of the parties did the right thing. Where do you think blame should be placed at them? Or what what do you think things broke down? And what what should have happened? Adam Stone: Yeah, I mean, I would probably say, I would probably have to say maybe even, it's tough, I would put the waters last. Maybe that's incorrect, but I would put the waters last and I would put USA pickleball and Kathina. Number Number One. So I mean, I have I mean, you everyone or a lot of these people that are going to be watching this have obviously seen a lot of the posts and a lot of the comments and whatever and, and I have a very rough history. With Katherine's behavior to partners. Not only did she inappropriately dropped
my wife, but my good friend Joey Farias, and the only reason I'm saying those two names is because they they said it publicly. Yeah. And there is a ridiculous amount of more people that I will not say anything if they want to come forward. Great, but I'm not going to say anything specific about those people that haven't commented publicly. So that's the only reason I'm using Korean car and Joey Ferris and let's be clear, switching partners and possibly committing to a long term thing and realizing it's not going to work out and then making a reasonable switch is something that happens quite a bit. Yeah, I had the same thing happened with me with deco bar this year.
And you know, we were in different places. He was right I kind of Of course I got a little sad just because we only had one or two bad tournaments and then we started discussing partly breaking up but it was very cordial. It was hey, he was like man, I'm not gonna leave you hanging in we're up we're gonna continue to play for these three or four months and then you know the second half of the year I'm I would I want to play with someone else and I was completely okay with it. And, you know, he didn't leave me hanging a week or two or a day or two before and there was a ridiculous amount of communication between us leading up to that to that breakup. So, I mean, I've spent many hours of my life talking to people, especially Corinne, about the injustices that Catherine has done to people. And it's just, it really just burns me up. And
to see this whole situation, it really, really, really was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. And the main reason why I posted even the situation's terrible on its own, I never would have posted anything if this was an isolated incident. This is a crazy, crazy body of work. And disrespect to so many people that are important to me over the past two or three years that I just I literally could not take it and I had to post something. And I got a lot of run with my post a lot of good comments from a lot of people, but really kicked into gear when Dan Gingrich who has a very significant online platform, when he when he posted something as well, it really took off and, you know, I man, it's it was kind of intense and whatever on Saturday when it was all happening, but, you know, it's it was a lot of piling on and I didn't even feel 100% comfortable with it, even though I completely stand by everything I said. And it was a lot. It was a lot it was a lot and I was
just like, man, you know, this is you know, first half of Saturday, I was like good this is getting the run that it needs second half of end of Saturday and beginning of Sunday, especially I was just like man that you know, this is man they are really piling on right now. But then of course Elise gives the the exact details in this Instagram post. And it's even worse than I realized so Rob: on. And at the same time just watching that golden metal match yesterday, like it like made me sick. It gave me like a
bad twinge in my stomach watching them compete for a gold medal. Actually, ya know, like, I was like, they shouldn't even be out there like, and they're like pumping each other up. It's like, it just made me a little sick to my stomach. Adam Stone: know for sure I don't blame you at all for that. So, yeah, so I would say from just just completely isolating this, this one, this one specific situation, I would say USA pickleball and Kathina are are equally to blame at the top and nothin. There's nothing to be said about the waters, but I would definitely put them at a fairly distant third, to be honest.
Rob: What like what do you say to the people that because I've seen a lot of this, it's it's like, you know, everybody's saying, Well, you know, it's within the rules. Even Don Stanley said, Well, this is this is 100% within the rules, and she had every right to do this. Okay. Just because something's in and it wasn't actually within the rules. It was within a tournament term and directors discretion, which what's what's that mean? Right? You can do whatever you want, essentially, right? Like that should go away. But what about what do you say to the people that are like, well, she was she was in the rural she's, she's a professional athlete. She's
competing for a gold medal at national she's competing for money. This is a business. This is her livelihood. What do you say the people that are that are defending? You're saying that stuff? Adam Stone: Right? Well, technically, I don't with the way it's worded. I don't believe it's within the rules, either. Right, technically how it's worded. Now, there's that common those two words that you said, turn two or three words tournament director discretion? You know, that's obviously the greatest of areas possible, but I think technically, with the way it's worded, it's not okay, what happened? So, sure, I think there's a lot of people that that don't know, the backstory, and you know, didn't know this timeline of events and how so many fairly accomplished players were completely denied entry.
And then Katherine Athena can just make some things happen. 4:30pm, and all of a sudden, Rob: up to 9:30pm, up to nine was when the approval got through. Adam Stone: So so what I would say to your statement, Robert, is if all of these people have all of the information now that we're talking about, and that's posted by Elise Jones here, then I think that they're ridiculous. And if they had a little sliver
of information, then you know, okay, that's cool. I get I respect your opinion, and, you know, I kind of get where they're coming from, but when you when you have all the facts, if you think that that what happened was okay, then I think that's just rough on you. Rob: Yeah. And at the same time here, we're, you know, I saw some other people saying, well, it's it's no issue with the quote unquote, manager, Athena reaching out to Elise and not Catherine. That's absolutely not okay. Right. Like, they're like, you know, this is a pro sport. Look, this is pickleball. You
know, let's, let's settle down. We're having an order. This isn't this isn't the Super Bowl. This isn't whatever even if this was tennis and like, you two P two players have respect for each other, which I assume Katherine and Elise have respect for each other did. The least you can do is have a conversation. My God, I don't care how shy you are. I don't
care how uncomfortable it is. You have the conversation period Adam Stone: and a story. Right. I agree with you, Robert. And I think it probably this almost nothing that I'm saying is speculation. But I this is speculation that Catherine knew
it was wrong and thought it was wrong and had had a fina had to Fina do it for because she didn't want to deal with it. And I think that that actually says a lot. So if that's exactly the case, or what her mindset was. So I think that that says a lot
and yeah, just just it's just like you said, when you were watching the match, it just kind of it just makes my skin crawl. And it's it's just it's just not okay. And it's just too bad. Especially for you know, I'll tell you what, they did this to the wrong person. Because Elise is very much Rob: is the sweetest girl on tour. Right? And yeah, right. What was wrong person? Adam Stone: She's like, she's smaller than everyone. She tries
harder than everyone. She works harder than everyone. And she's very much loved in the community. So this just added another dimension to it. For sure as as the support for her was overwhelming. Rob: Yeah. People came out in droves. Yeah, honestly,
honestly, I did feel bad when it's all piling on. But I've that timelines just it's unacceptable. It's ridiculous Adam Stone: is what acceptable. And I just man, USA pickleball. It's just so rough. Like how I mean, these, there's, there's just the rule has to change, whether you consider the wording of the rule or not, the rule must change and there has to there cannot be gray area. Rob: And I don't I don't even give a shit if the rule changes to be honest. Because it's just do the right thing. Human
beings, like, just do the right thing. Like don't don't be a bad person. Adam Stone: Yeah, no, I'm with you. And yeah, I mean, it's, you
know, it was a lot. It was a lot, Rob: because this is what's happening, right? Like her brand, her reputation is damaged. Now, it is like people people aren't going to forget, like, this is a this is going to be you know, there'll be new, there'll be new drama and new things that come in new things that happened, but people people won't forget this. I don't think you know, it's little things
that people will bring with them like, oh, yeah, I remember when she did that to Elise and like that, you know, you made you made some money in the gold medal match, but I would guarantee it's a net loss overall. Adam Stone: Yeah. Right. And I think it's, yeah, I think it's, you know, it says a lot with at least whatever at least his little sentence was that said, Oh, I saw Catherine Athena and Anna Lee and Papa waters talking. And it she knew with with Catherine's history of behavior, she knew as soon as she saw that little group of people talking, apparently, very shortly, shortly after Lea waters got seriously injured. She and she knew it was over. And that's I think, you don't Rob: think you don't think they were checking on how he was doing? Adam Stone: I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I wasn't
there. Rob: Maybe a Tina was going over there to see if she could, you know, call for help. Adam Stone: Right. I don't think that that was, like I said, for that. That was secondhand information. Yeah, I obviously
did not Rob: see that. So I also heard that from several different pros. Adam Stone: Okay. Oh, several. Okay, good. Yeah. So there you go. Yeah. And so, because there are some great pickleball this
weekend, Robert, and you know, I think a lot of people are gonna remember this situation more than the great pickleball and that's just too bad. Rob: Yeah. What do you think estrus estrus under that golden medal for them? Adam Stone: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Asterisk for sure. Okay, what does it ask Asterisk? Rob: Asterisk, asterisk, asterisk. Thank you remember, you know, I mean, your pronunciation is perfect.
Flawless. Adam Stone: Yeah. Well, okay, so what else are we gonna talk Rob: about? I think I think we'd go into a little bit of the black hole that is the USA pickleball. Yeah, I mean, I know
we touched on it a little bit in terms of, of, you know, us trying to get in Michigan and Elise trying to get in. And I mean, we're not talking we're not talking three days before. I mean, we're talking a significant amount of time before the tournament starting. And I talked about this, I think maybe in a prior episode of, you know, this isn't this is an ongoing issue also with other with other tours. You know, I haven't had especially with PPA, but a PP, I've definitely seen seen it and had it happen to me where it's tough to get in. Even though they need the players, even though it's good for the tournament, like I think I even mentioned like VIV tried to get into a couple last year and it was too late. So they wouldn't
let her in. And they just give, they give great players a hard time for whatever reason trying to get into their tournament to help promote the sport of pinball and their tour and compete. And it's like guys, like, you know, have a little bit more flexibility for everybody, not just for hand selected people that you want to allow in. So many pros tried to get in could not get into nationals, for whatever reason, I think, what would you say Adam, there are 24 teams in the men's doubles drop. It was Adam Stone: like low to mid 20s. And I was told when I tried to get in that were stacked at 32 Can't do it. So basically, I was
told will check got a message back. Sorry, can't do it. Were at 32 kept. So obviously, let's be clear. I watched our old episode and I say obviously too much. But that's so Rob: hold on. I just don't stop your thought. But I also had a
realization of something I do. But it's I didn't know some of the podcasts. I say for the word ALS. Oh. Also, like I pronounce it like AOL T zo. Like Adam Stone: also. Yeah, that's interesting. Unknown: I don't know about that one. Also, also. Okay. Adam Stone: I think it's like your I think yours is worse than mine. Actually, thank you for making me feel they
Rob: might be actual speech impediment. So Adam Stone: yeah, so. Right. So and I know, I don't, obviously we know what Elise said in her post. But I don't even know exactly what the situation was with Collins brother, and trying to get in and then wasn't in and then was in again, obviously, Collins brother and Catherine ridiculous body of work. You know, they are, you know, better players than a lot of the players that tried to get in. But there is I mean, Corinne is very decorated, myself. I mean, I've won 35 Plus nationals and
singles and doubles. Granted, this was, you know, a couple years ago, but it's not like it was just some five I was trying to get in the tournament. These are like legit pros. How can there be that big of a discrepancy? discrepancy on favoritism when we're talking about legit pros, and then an Elite Pro? So there might only be, you know, whatever, five or 10 or 15 ranking spots between you know, Katherine and some of the people that are trying to get in it's not like it's it's scrubs trying to get in and then pros trying to get in. It's very
much not that Rob: 100%. So fix it be better. USA pickable. It's a joke. It's an absolute joke. Adam Stone: Yeah. And that's it. And just to get back to my good cop routes, it's not like this, Oregon. It's not like this organization has not done a lot for pickleball and plenty for pickleball. But they do have to make it a little cleaner and clean up their act and situations like this, would you would you please refresh my memory? On the specific US Open stuff? I know the general of what happened with the paddle testing and whatever else. Do you have any more information on
that? Robert? Rob: Yeah, I believe I believe. So a couple of things happen. That's when carbon that's when the carbon stuff went down. The battle stuff, I believe it was Collins brother that that complained and brought that to light and did like a rant they did did the random test on the spot. And like it was sketchy
testing. And, you know, they made us a pickleball made an unprecedented move of not like warning or not like trying to get those just an all out ban of the paddle. which, let's be honest, that that that had to like carbon handled that really well. But it's had to have very much negatively affected their business. You know, they're not sponsoring nearly as many pros as they were before. They had a lot of pros with the paddle. They took a big hit. And that was a USA pickleball. As far as
I'm concerned as the USA pickleball decision there, I know Don pavement was on site and then and then a bunch of paddles, you know, started getting tested because they had the little the start little roughness tester there. So there's a video that somebody recorded of Don Pavan testing, I think a Yola and saying, Oh, you don't want me to test that. That's not going to pass. And then and then. Like, nothing happened with it.
Adam Stone: Yeah, right. Right. So Rob: interesting stuff. But just, yeah, Don Pavan hasn't had very, had a very good year in the public eye.
Adam Stone: Right. So, so, Robert, do you think that having maybe a player Council A player committee with a variety of levels of pros kind of teared off would be something that could I mean, it should probably just be cleared up either way, by by these by these entities. But do you think that that is something that could help this process? And kind of if there is a little gray area with, with the entities making the decisions that the player counselor or the player, whatever could could make that a little cleaner for those entities? Rob: Yeah, I don't think it would hurt. I mean, having
having players have different rankings is kind of what the ATP does. I think they have a couple players that are, you know, top 25 and top 50, top 75, top 100 And it keeps going down. So the show, you know, players of all rankings are represented within that council, I think that makes a lot of sense. I just I don't
know, in terms of these instances, what that wouldn't necessarily accomplish other than working with USA pickleball. And saying, you know, you know, and having unified voice, right. So, hopefully, hopefully it gets corrected. But yeah, I think players coming together and having having a council or a union would always always be a good thing. You know, we've had a lot of fragmentation in the
sport wood players on different tours, players have been having different values based on those tours and different incentives based on those tours. So it's been pretty difficult in terms of having a unified front, and pickleball. Hopefully, the MLP and vibe merger will help bring some of the PBA players and the AAP MLP players together more. We shall see. But I think yeah, I think a unified front is necessary. And I think Casey Pat, has talked about that for a while. And it's something we
need to do for sure. Adam Stone: Oh, okay. That's the so I bought into some podcasting. And I think I saw a post about a player union of some sort. And I think I saw him get tagged in that. So yeah,
okay, so that makes sense. I did not know that he was kind of an advocate for that. Because that's what they did beach volleyball. Right, right. And I've heard I heard people in the
comments on some of the threads, talking about how beach volleyball partnerships are kind of Shi T show as well. And there's a lot of the similar drama that has kind of, you know, unfolded here in pickleball as well. So yeah, so that, Okay, y'all, I just wanted to hear your views on that. And, you know, maybe that's, that's a direction that we need to head if, you know, it's unfair things keep happening. So
Rob: yeah, I mean, I just don't know how relevant USA Pickleball is going to be. Adam Stone: Yeah, no, I gotcha. But I'll tell you what it's been a couple years or two years since I've been to Nationals man has a pretty place awesome facilities looks unreal, the courts are sweet it man, it was beautiful. It really was. And,
you know, always through a four day or this one, even more than a four day tournament, there's going to be some ups and downs with the, with the crowd, but man, when that played, that place was almost filled up a couple different times. And you know, that's, that's cool to see some real real stands and some real fans in the stands. And it seemed like it was a pretty good atmosphere from from what I saw on the stream. So Rob: out um, you know what I like about like a tournament like nationals and like the US Open, outside of like all the stuff that happens with pro players and how they get treated all that stuff, forget the set that stuff aside. What I like
about nationals and US Open. And even how TOC used to be is that they were standalone events, and not part of the not part of the tour in respect to you know, you could be playing, you could be outside of the different likes championship court. If you're watching on stream, you could be watching the Austin open PBA, Austin open versus the PBA Cincinnati and not really see much of a difference not really understand how it's a different tournament. I like how nationals has its own branding. I like how the US Open has its own branding. Same with TOC before it was PPA like it and it's not just its own branding and its own look and feel. It's also the anticipation of that stop for a year for a year each time for you know, there's that tournament ends 365 more days, it'll happen again. And there's
a lot more anticipation that builds up for that. So I think there's something to be said about like, you know, these tour stops in these cities taking some ownership of of the tournament. In some sense. I don't mean ownership in terms of like business equity. I don't know what it looks like. I don't even know how the ATP does it for example, but I just love the fact that if you watch like, you know, different tour stops in tennis. It doesn't just feel like another stop on the ATP tour if it had that that tournament has its own sense and feel and brand and it's that cities tournament. You know what
I mean? Those people look forward to it every year. Yeah, so I just wonder how that can be replicated in pickleball because it's really special in nationals. You can see it and as well as the US Open Adam Stone: and we can And we can use this word again. Dare I
say there's good vibes at those tournaments? Yes. Oh, there we go. But no, I totally agree. And it's just another one another one, another one. And then you have a special one. And I do think the build is real, like people will plan their vacations for these specific tournaments, amateur players, and there's, there's a sense of, of it building and you know, it's going to happen again next year. And it's a special tournament, it's a little different, different, you know, energy, different vibe, different, whatever the case may be different vendors. But I think that's a really a really great
statement. And I think that I think that's absolutely true. And it does make a difference and make it a little more special. Rob: Yeah. Can you see it with the AP to like, every every tournament feels a little bit the same? Right. And it's, it's
a little disorienting for players? Sure. Like, where am I this week? Everything looks the same. We've got the same backdrop, the same everything. The same vendors, the same tense, the same players area, just a little bit of a different stand. And oh, there's a waffle house. You know, that's all
mostly the same. Adam Stone: Right, right. Yeah. And, yeah, I mean, that's, I mean, I don't think that that's bad. I think it's great that that's happening, but I do think it is a little different. When the tournament is like what you're talking about. So
Rob: add another, I've got another point I want to talk about, but I need to refill on coffee real quick. Adam Stone: Okay. Well, I'll talk about I really liked the the three court situation was to go into Oh, excellent. Okay, well get your copy. Good Cop. Good Cop. Okay. Yeah, I'll be
good cop. So yeah, I thought that the three stream situation was awesome. So many deep draws and high level players and fantastic matches to to only get that one quart, you're definitely missing some action. So to be able to kind of bounce around, pick a match that you like, pick, pick up a player that you're a big fan of and be able to watch, you know, maybe their second or their third round match. I think that that was that was that was really nice. And I took it I took
advantage of that throughout the day's viewing. So kudos to them for doing that and giving the viewers a variety of choices to tune into. I don't have pants on, you know, why would you I don't think that's a shocking statement. I think standards
Rob: podcast, I gotta get a collared shirt on top and nothing on the bottom. Adam Stone: Gosh darn gosh darn champion. You are Robert I love it. Alright, so Rob: how did your conversation go? Or your soliloquy about the three core streaming you said? Adam Stone: Oh, no. Oh, I just said it was great. And you know, there's lots of there's lots of fans that follows certain players and these players are playing like super high level second third round matches. And to be honest with you some of
the tours maybe specifically the PPA, you know, I don't I don't really care to see Colin and Collins brother playing two four fives in the first or the second round when like there's a whatever like a Spencer Smith Tyler loom. Pat Smith, Talon Dawson type matchup going on in the second round, where it's like super close and super talented players. So to be able to bounce around and be like, Oh, I've seen this one before or oh, this is gonna be a slaughter and be able to jump to a to another match. It's very competitive. I have really liked that as a as a viewer.
Rob: Yeah, no, loved it. I thought, yeah, I think three quarts is the most a tournament to has had streamed. And, you know, I think shout out big shout out to boxcar productions. crosslinker. Because they made that happen, set it up. And they it looked great man, it was the production quality was really high. Graphics looked amazing. Everything was solid. What I
would say is I get like, I lose my mind when I'm watching Good pickleball especially on three courts. And then I'm like, where to go? How do I find it? I spent like, I spend like 30 minutes on a smart TV trying to figure out, you know, why? Like searching, searching like in the stupid little search text that takes forever. And I'm like, we have to fix this. It's a joke. And it goes from it goes from three courts early in the day and then switches to one court on ESPN plus later in the day. And you still have a bunch of good matches going not just one court. Like you have real you have like fit six matches in the back, you know, that aren't being streamed even even. I
think we didn't even see the Winner's Bracket Final on the men's Adam Stone: Winner's Bracket Final between, I don't know decent players deco bar and JW Johnson met right and Riley Newman was not was not available to see. I mean, I Oh, is Rob: that I? I heard it was I think Kyle mentioned this that that Tyson didn't want to go on 45 minutes after his match with Colin And so because he got a longer rest, they had to like it push the schedule into something or thing or something happened like that. But regardless, Why could we maintain three courts? Like, like, you are making it harder to watch the sport? We have to make it easier. Like we have to make it easier. We have to be like, do you want people watching? We need live stream viewers, we need higher numbers. Why like path of least
resistance? Let's not make this difficult. Like, if I'm tech savvy, I know how to find stuff I have every app there is if I'm having a tough time finding how to watch this match, we have issues, hundreds of people because they need to be able to cater to people like you, Adam who is not tech savvy and who does not know how to find anything. Adam Stone: That's very true. Rob: If they're if they're catering to me, they need to be catering to you. Point being like we have to make this
easier. We have to stream more courts the prompts on the three courts. But why can why can we not get 1015 court streaming just put a little camera in the back I don't need to just put on court audio I don't even need any commentators I prefer no commentators other unless it's Adam. Stream more courts by our
by the cameras for you. We can get on a finance plan. We can do whatever we need to do. But let's let's get more courts streaming, just stream them. If and if you don't want to stream them, let people their stream that don't yell at them for trying to stream on their camera because you're not streaming them. Done.
Adam Stone: That was good. Robert, that was very good Rob: frustration, Adam, because I want to watch. I want to watch more good pickleball matches, and I know that people do, and I know I don't care how many how many people we have viewing championship court, who cares? Let's look at the whole let's get 10 cameras going. It's a numbers game. Let's get 10 cameras going. You'll have more eyeballs, you'll have more people watching you'll have you know, people that are following I don't know why we always go to Spencer Smith, but Spencer Smith's family in Utah can now watch his court and he can have his friends watch like it'll bring more eyeballs other like that wouldn't be watching otherwise. Right. Adam Stone: Right. And you're exactly right. The junkies and
the in the regulars. They're going to search through and figure it out. But those casual viewers, I would venture to say hundreds of people were just like, Ah, screw it, I'll watch something else or something that they were tuning in and either wants to record and find it and they're just like, Whatever, I'll turn it on. Whatever the hell's going on NBC and watch football or something like that. Not Rob: to mention ESPN Plus is a it's a paywall, you have to pay for it. So how many eyeballs are we missing there?
Adam Stone: Right, right. No, I heard I saw plenty of people on social media asking for updates because they don't have ESPN plus, you Rob: know, like we're talking about the fans, or the sports most rabid fans that want to watch that want to engage that want to know what's happening, that want to watch and share on social and like spread the word of pickleball. And we're not allowed like these people aren't allowed to watch like, let's let's get it together people come on. Adam Stone: Attaboy, Rob, this this is this is it. That's that's a good little. That's a good little bad cop spiel. And I just I just respect every minute of it.
Rob: It's super frustrating. Yeah, Adam Stone: I agree. I do agree. So do you. Do you have any more topics you would like to talk about? Or should we actually talk about some of the results in the tournament? Rob: Well, let's not do that yet. Okay, about results. Yeah, let's talk about good. Just I just have a little couple notes here that I'm looking at. We talked about registrations, how
they're making exceptions. Talked about Elise a little bit. I did hear that. CPS getting a little little taste of her own medicine for takia. I think Laya dropped her. Adam Stone: Good. Yeah, that's Yeah, yeah. And hey, and I'll, I always go back to my, to my Gosh, darn good cop routes. But this, it's not like, Catherine is the only person that has ever done something a little shady or whatever. It's just the
frequency and the length of time it's been happening and the number of times it's happening. So there's a lot of non angels out here. And we haven't really said much about them. And a lot of some of the stuff that goes on. But yeah, man, man, when it's just so many times, it's just so like a little, just, every time I hear a story about it, just a little piece of my heart goes away. And I'm just like, ah, and it just it just really burns me up. And yeah, like I said, Robert, I could
just I just couldn't help myself. I had to say something it man, Dan Gingrich piled on big time. Rob: Yeah, he did. And yeah, you're absolutely right. And while this is not a good decision by Katherine or a good pattern, I like Katherine a lot. I think she's a good person. I think she's very nice. made very questionable decisions. In terms
of partnerships. Maybe that's influenced by Athena, who I also like, but not treating people well. I'm not a big fan of that. But to be clear, like you said, Adam there, they're not the only ones. She's not the only one. And there are people in this sport that have done way, way, way worse things than she has. All right. That's all I got. Adam Stone: Okay, no, that's good. Is that a solid? Pause?
Oh, no, it was good. It was a solid pause. Deep eye contact to ya know, for sure. That was that was very solid, very solid. But it was, it was very, it was very funny, because a lot of lot of the wording that Kathina uses is just, it's just very cold and very dull. I hope I hope this isn't going to affect a friendship, or you're not going to take this personally, that's just a business decision. And it's a business decision. And it's a business decision. But it's just handled in such a bad way, that I think that their good business decisions are really going to start affecting their business. As as people
kind of have started to realize that there's some shady behavior going on. So you know, I don't Yeah, I mean, I'm not trying to I mean, I think they're, I think Canada is a great player. And I've heard, you know, some solid things about their coaching and whatever else. But I mean, when you're in a business, and you're in a community that's small, and you are just burning bridges and stepping on people's toes, how the hell is that a good business decision? I just, I just don't understand the logic and the, and the whatever behind it. But, Rob: bro, short term, short term mindset versus long term mindset. It's a big deal, like short term money grabs, which,
you know, we see in pickleball, right? Because, you know, it's sitting there a little bit, and it's not huge. So you're capitalizing on the short term, long term is everything. Got to play the long game, like business relationships, why, like, the long games, everything, and they're not playing the long game? Adam Stone: Right. And I've also, you can't really blame I mean, this might just work out perfectly for Catherine. Like I said, super, super, super, really, really hope Lee's injury is not very significant. But Catherine's been denied by a lot
of the top girls asking them to play because of how many bridges she's burned and her behavior and and how can you blame these girls? They don't know if they're gonna have a bad tournament and Catherine's just gonna drop her for the next best thing. So. So you know, I mean, I don't, man, it's just a lot of bad cop for me, but I just hope she's fine. She's playing with Anna Lee and Catherine is on an island from how she's treated people. These last couple of years. So that's, that's, I think that's the gonna be the last thing I say about it. But what other topics you got over there to get me off this bad copper rant? Robert? Rob: No, I was just I was just thinking, like, just we see this a lot more like, like, I've seen a little bit on the men's side, but way less so. Right. Like, like, if it does happen, there's usually solid conversations around it. And there's, there's
a decent level of respect on both ends and understanding and like, I've had to drop a lot of partners this year, because I haven't traveled or haven't played as much, you know, but which I always feel horrendous about, you know, nope, not going to be able to make that one. Because I know that like, that's, that's going to lend me the reputation of I don't know, like, if I sign up with Rob, is he actually going to play this tournament? I don't want that reputation, right. Like, that's a that's a terrible thing to have. And I'm not I'm not even
reputation wise. I just don't like letting down a partner and not being being there to play when I've committed to playing. So yeah, I just I just don't understand how people can't feel bad about commitments they make and break because it makes me feel crap. Yeah, Adam Stone: it eats me up too. And we were all we were both in a tough situation, I think and it was the same thing. Last year, two years ago, when when Steve Deacon was struggling with the wrist, it's very tough. When it's an injury because you like,
establish this timeline, you're like, you know, everything's gonna be fine. Everything's gonna be good. I'm going to target this tournament or that tournament, and then there's a slight setback or, or something's not working out, and we want to like balance it out. You don't want to leave the person hanging a few days before but you really think you're going to be able to play so it's a very delicate situation. I don't know exactly what's perfect in that spot. But
letting someone down is is rough. It's bad. I've had to pull out of tournaments because of cramping and just feeling terrible. And man, it's just, it's just a really, really, really bad feeling. And I kind of consumes your thoughts for some period of time and I just really, really don't like it. Ya Rob: know? Agreed. So, yeah, some people being able to do it.
Yeah. It's a different different breed, I guess. But yeah, let's get some results. Adam. Adam Stone: Okay. All right, let me let me see some stuff here. I didn't make any notes.
Rob: So actually, Adam, as you look that up I did put out a I did put out a IG story about kind of submit questions for the pod. So let's see what we got. Adam Stone: Oh, yeah, that's that's good. Well, I will I pull up these these drawers Rob: will NML is asking me if if I know when when Catherine asks the least to play nationals, there have been a couple of different versions out there. So not sure if you had an answer. Do you know when Catherine asked Elise to play national Adam Stone: according to at least it was a few a couple of days before? Rob: Yeah, so it's pretty it was pretty Yeah. So basically, Adam Stone: because because because I believe in ML message me too. And they there was something about Katherine said she was playing with Collins brother, like a couple months ago or something. Yeah, and but according to Elise, Katherine
wasn't planning on playing the tournament. Then she got Collins brother as a partner decided to play it. And that's when Catherine was like, well, if I'm going I might as well play women's as well and asked Elise to get in the tournament a few days before it. I also heard that Katherine was supposed to play with with J. W. And something happened that she said she wasn't gonna play the tournament at all. And then she
was signed up with Ben. Which you know, I don't have any problem with that if you weren't gonna play and then maybe she wouldn't Rob: have was three Oh, and three if you play with Jacob. Adam Stone: Man tell you what. Anna Lee waters Rob: that wasn't that wasn't that was Adam Stone: she is ridiculous man. And the thing is, is I
think a lot of people like focus on the speed ups and the power and you know, some of the shot making her movement and her defense is ridiculous. She doesn't miss she doesn't miss and she has great shots, powerful shots, deceptive shots and great hand speed. So I mean, she has the total package and I think there's a huge clump of girls really close at level right behind her but she is well distant. There's way more than then Riley or college brother is so it's wild. how good Rob: she is. Yep. 3013 Adam Stone: Yeah, that's I mean that's just you know full fledge next level. So did you you said you had a couple a couple
questions. Rob: No, go go on. Let's do the results. Adam Stone: Okay, so yeah, so I'm just going to scan through the draw. We have we'll start off with men's doubles. We had Matt talk about pretty intense first round we had Kyle Yates and Julian Arnold verse Colin Dawson and Spencer Smith first round that was the first one I love Rob: that match took like three hours to ya. Remember like I was scrolling through I was like oh they're still Oh, it's like four four in the first Adam Stone: Yeah, I think was on CC two actually. And I was just
like I kept like looking for another match to be on there and there wasn't so gates and Arnold ended up taking that 111 eight in the third and then had a tight one with that and Riley they won the first game 11 seven and then lost four and four after that but still going three with Matt and Riley very good result. We had Fraser Fraser and Hewitt interesting pairing we've never seen before beating Wilson and Kohler and three and I certainly wouldn't say that surprising but maybe maybe a slight upset slight Yeah. And then right Newman handling Fraser and Hewitt and two games five and nine we had let's see here we had bar and Johnson oh yeah we oh that's not that's not for you to talk about Dragon delivers and the Crime Dog is in the Gulf and winning eight and eight against Colin and his brother in the quarterfinals and then following that oh Rob: I thoroughly enjoyed that match. I have not seen Jocelyn play so well. Like he was he was he was reading balls poaching. Like he played very very well. Same with Tyson like they were
super solid. I don't think I've seen them play a better match. And yeah, I just I just wish this tournament didn't have come around. Adam Stone: We got right and I did not see that one somehow I don't know how but great result for them. And let's not forget that, you know, a year or two ago they didn't necessarily lose to them a lot. But Colin and his brother really struggled with with Jay and Pat Smith. They weren't they were always super close and those matches and I think just you know taking balls out of the air being aggressive kind of threw off Colin and his brother so just you know just a little a little tidbit there that that might have had you know some some weight in that match that that and that Jay has something that they don't love to play against Rob: and also I think I think nationals especially being on those you know the courts what Okay, let's talk about nationals really quick again. And the venue like the standard right on
top of the courts. I always talk about this. I love venues where the stands are tight to the court. It's intimate. It's the fans actually get into it. They can hear everything on court.
And I think for guys like Tyson and Jocelyn who the crowd loves, right, like they get, they get the crowd into it. They've you know, Tyson's barking Jocelyn is fist pumping. They're, they're looking at the crowd. They're they're trying to get some noise. Versus like, Colin, who are just super quiet and reserved and not really liked by many people. I think what the
crowd doesn't know, like, the crowd matters. Like you want the crowd on your side. So I think I think it really like that kind of venue really suits. Kind of the people that play to the crowd. I think you're totally right. Like I even heard some I
even heard quite a few boos in that women's gold match with, you know, with some calls by Katherine and Anna Lee. Like, right, the crowd was getting into it. I liked that I liked when the crowd chooses sides. I like when you know, it's like the US Open Tennis. It's fun.
Adam Stone: Yeah, no, I think you're right. And even though the stands weren't super close to championship court, there was a ton of people in the stands so that that kind of makes up for it. But those those first four courts, right when you walk in the main entrance to the left are awesome because there's like four or five or six rows of seats and they are directly on the court and you hear things there's vibe, you know, you see Tyson doing this stuff bargain, flipping his moment and stuff, you know, you know, yeah, pound in the chest. You know, people love that stuff. And you got you know, Jay got Rob: really good at them. Yeah, really, really good. Yeah. So, holy. Yeah,
Adam Stone: that was really, I don't think that there's any confusion about it. When people like watching them they like watching Tyson and J. Anyone more love Yeah, of course. Yeah. hairy chest. Yeah, actually, I'm not sure if you know, a year or two ago I would have I would have thought this but I actually miss J. I miss. I enjoy my time with him. And he's he's he's pretty funny. And he's pretty light hearted and has a good vibe about him. So
Rob: one of the one of my more enjoyable, overnights at a tournament was spending the night with Jocelyn and Johnny Goldberg in the room. Adam Stone: Oh my I'm sure. Rob: I woke up well, first off, Johnny Goldberg always sleeps and he has a Celsius has a Celsius right on his nightstand. So right when he wakes up first thing he does before he even opens his eyes. He reaches over cracks the Celsius drinks it then he gets up. Is that
Adam Stone: so? Is that energy drink sales. That's Rob: it? Yeah. So the energy drink? Yeah, I Adam Stone: had a friend who would sorry to interrupt you.
But what they would do is they would set their alarm for like 20 minutes before they were supposed to wake up pop and Adderall and then go back to sleep and then just wait, wake up. It's so similar. Rob: I like that a lot. I'm going to try to. I want to know that friend. Okay, so then, and then I would wake up and I would see Johnny looking out the curtain at the red lights and the cars going by. And Jocelyn would be right there with them.
And they would as the light would turn green, they would make bets on how many cars would pass by before the light turns red again. So it'd be like an over under, let's say right, right setting 717 cars, and then they're counting the car. And then the bedding kept devolving to where they started gambling on coin flips, like just a quarter heads or tails $5. Like, just non stop and then so this is just fun stories of behind the scenes on tour on the road. Jocelyn Johnson would drive me to the venue. I think this is in LA. And I told him I was like in California because Jostens you know, French guy that has lived in the US for quite a while but I still like to act like he's just fresh off the boat. I was like Jocelyn and California. Red
Red lights just mean yield like if nobody's coming you can go and so I got him to run a couple of red lights. Now it's pretty dangerous thing to tell to tell someone. No cars are coming. I said I said if no cars are coming, don't Okay. Oh, I Okay.
This is a street like a stop sign. Yeah, Adam Stone: well tell you what you're right. Johnny Gabri likes to have a few cocktails and make some bets. And ya know, you
know, he's a real gambling champion when it doesn't even need to be something specific. Let's just start flipping that coin as you start flipping that coin. Yeah, that's that's pretty good stuff. Good. Yeah, they might. Who knows how much they
were doing the coin flips for, depending on if someone got bitten by a dog in Florida. Who knows? This could have been $1,000 coin flips, you know if we had some good stuff going Rob: on. If anybody that's out there needs a personal injury attorney Johnny Goldberg and associate Johnny Goldberg. If you get bit by a dog, that's an easy 30k 30k So if anybody's tight on cash out there just just happened to run into a dog, take that bite. Get a little cash. Right my boy Johnny, got
your boy Adam Stone: Johnny and then okay, so Well, I guess we'll continue even though this was very fun five minutes, I guess we'll continue with our results here. We have after that big win from the Crime Dog and delivers, they faced off against deco bar and JW Johnson and lost 11 for 10 1211 for very tight match even though it was four and four and those other two games so I'm sure that was a very competitive one. I did not see that one either. And then we had bar and Johnson winning two and three against Riley Newman and Matt Wright and the winners final very shocking score, obviously, bar Johnson studs on the court, but man two and three against a ridiculously high quality opponent like that. Right. And Riley Newman is a pretty
spectacular result for Rob: them. It is that was winners. What was that? Semi or winners? That Adam Stone: was that was WINNERS BRACKET finals? No. Okay. Winner's Bracket Final, right? So we had Rob: them. Yeah, guaranteed them a silver minimum. Right? Adam Stone: Right. Correct. So we had and wild format too, by the way, we didn't talk about this. So the matches are three
out of five and a game to 15. Rob: Yo, Adam Stone: well, that's wild. Rob: No, it's so stupid. It's, that's it's one of the dumbest formats I've seen, you're gonna like that women's that women's match. Like you're gonna make them play a five game match, and then go to a game of 15. Like, if you play it best of five, the winner or the winner wins period. Right. So don't make the
best of five, make it a two out of three and then a 15. But right out of five, it's just app. So Adam Stone: that means they definitely need to the person coming through undefeated obviously needs to have an advantage, but three out of five and then the game to 15 Anna Lee could have easily played 18 games, including three, three that were to 15 that is a ridiculous amount of pickleball in one day, and I get them wanting to extend it and make it as long as possible and have you know the great matches with the great players that were out there. But man, three out of five and and yo 15 is wild. We
Rob: played we played with a Franklin. Yeah, that's another another big factor. So if you don't know out there, the Franklin just plays a little softer than a euro. So points are extended a little longer. It's definitely more taxing on
the players. Longer points. legs get Cashmore. So yeah, I mean, to play that format. Throw an X 40 on top. And you're talking about like, Yeah, I mean it not to be dramatic, but we're talking about player safety now to like that, that can cause injury, especially for somebody that's, you know, playing playing three times in that day. So shame on you.
Adam Stone: Like, this, this is, this is spicy, I knew it was good. It was gonna be but man, there's a lot going on. Yeah, I can't, I can