Why Social Responsibility Is Important For Any Successful Business with Jason Atkins @ 360insights
- 360 will never fail: One because I'm determined as hell, and I will never let it fail; Two is because, if it failed here and I only had full employees in North America, we all be on unemployment and we would still be able to have a house and eat food, whatever. - What do you know, you've had. - In Haiti, they've nothing. (upbeat music) (upbeat music increases) - Boom! Jason, welcome to the show, man. - Thank you, Dan. - This is fun. Jason, you're one of my good friends.
We know each other very well, so we can go all over the place with this conversation. (Jason laughs) - How well? - Very well. (Jason and Dan laughs) - Wow! (Jason and Dan laughs) My whole brain just went through all this stuff Jason can bring up and then I thought of the video, (Jason laughs) like the last trip and I was like, "Uh-oh." (Jason laughs) Anyway, this is about you not me, anyways. So, (table thuds) you're the founder of 360insights, - I am. - A serial entrepreneur. Hardest working person I've ever seen.
Dude, it's impressive. Cultures, World-class, you know, Business, and just like drive and the giving side, as you know. We actually got to bring the family down to Haiti with you, and Brenda and the kids to go visit your work that you've been doing there which has been incredibly inspiring. - Which most people don't do.
Like when you invite someone in Haiti they're like- - Those people, they're like, "Yeah, sure." (Jason laughs) And that's what's funny. Like I remember that day when we were like, "Wow! we've invited so many people and nobody's actually taken us up. - Dan's like, "I'm coming, and I'm bringing my family and my boys!" - Yeah, they were like four and five at the time. But I mean, dude, just like what you do...
but for everybody listening, talk about 360insights, the kind of size of the business it is today. - Yep. Number of employees, customers, that kind of thing. - Yeah, so 360, about 600 people manage about $3.5 billion for large brands. Like Samsung, Sony, LG, Whirlpool, Electrolux. Yeah. Lots of big brands.
And yeah, we have offices- - Whitby, Ontario. - Whitby, Ontario's headquarters. - 125,000 population, I saw the sign when I ran by it this morning - Yeah.
- Yeah, and we have like 300 people in Whitby. - Damn! - Yeah. - And then we have offices in Monkton. We just opened up Monkton. - I love that! - Yeah. - I thought you were joking
`when you messaged me like, "Yeah, we're thinking opening up a call centre in Monkton." And I'm like, (Jason laughs) "Yeah, right." - Well, we connecting with the mayor is really important. - You know, I try to do what I can for economic development.
(Jason laughs) You know. (laughs) I would do a whole lot. (Jason laughs) - So, then we have Chicago, Detroit, Boston, London, England, and then Haiti. Which you visited in Haiti, which has like 130 people. - It's crazy. - Yeah. - And the work in Haiti specifically, because I really want to dive into the impact side of your world.
Because I love the way you've integrated both the business and the personal side. The work that you provide there which is predominantly data entry, I'm assuming and- - Yep, and claim processing data entry. - Claim processing? - Yep. Because I met a lot of these... the workers, - Yep. - Their life would look dramatically different if they weren't working with you.
What's the pay scale difference like? - Yeah. I mean in Haiti... I'll give a little context to Haiti because like how we got there, why we do it, and then what impact it's had. - Love that, yeah. - So, Laila Jenna, who we both know, who's has pass was the the person who really put me onto this concept- - Samasource. - Samasource digital work, and what it was actually, I was on Facebook in like November 2012.
We had a hard time staffing people to do data entry in North America, both US and Canada. And a friend of mine is like, "Jay, you always talk about leveraging your company to do good, like you do tonnes of stuff yourself, but you can only do so much when you're a person, but if you build a little army around it, you can do so much more." And they're like, "You've got this problem with data entry, like why don't you try to bring it somewhere where there's opportunity?" And I was like, "That's amazing." "I don't really know where to start."
So, of course, what you do? You go to Facebook and I'm like, "Anybody know anything about doing digital work around the world?" And Mike Walsh, good friend of mine says, "Hey, do you know your part and at that time, part of Summit Series?" And he's like, "Do you ever met Laila at Summit Series?" And I'm like, "I haven't, but please intro introduce me." Started doing work in Kenya, challenging Kenya's time change. So, Googled, "Poorest country Western hemisphere." in December of 2012, Haiti is the result.
Hopefully, it's still not, but I'm sure it still is. Haiti comes up and I messaged Laila, I said, "I'm going to Haiti." And she's like, "You're crazy, look we've tried Haiti. It doesn't work in Haiti." - Really?
Did she already been there? - They tried to do it once in Haiti, before and I was like, "Well, first of all, don't tell me no, because that means you ask like-" - Yeah, yeah. - Just going to do it. - Now, I want to do it even more. Hot stove! Stop touching it! - So, I'm like, "I'm going!" So, the following week I booked a flight, went to Haiti, and met Duqueine who you've met.
Who's one of my greatest friends. - Yeah, what a ball of energy. - Oh my gosh! And like, so focused on making impact on this country. - So you met Duqueine, your first trip? - Very first trip. - If you didn't meet him. - I may not be there.
- I mean, that's real talk. - Yeah. May not be there. - I mean, the guy literally navigates, helps people understand what they're getting into and what to avoid. - And soul to the earth guy, you know like- - Selfless.
- Yeah, man. Yeah. I could go... What he goes through for what he does to Haiti! - Yeah, it's not even. - Like unbelievable! And yeah, so we started there, it started when I was like, "I love him and fell in love with him and his family." They have a little technical school.
I was like, "Give me a room, I'll renovate it. And I'll make an office." We hired 11 people. We have 130 today, and the crazy thing is, is that we've had like, maybe two people in seven years leave. So like retention is insane. Quality is unbelievable.
It's like they crush everywhere because they're so focused. But what we've seen is we... I laugh when I go there, now. When I used to go there, there's like, parking lots' dead.
You know, everybody's taking Tap Taps which is their public transport to the office every day. Now, it's full! There's not room for cars! Everybody has a car, everybody has a house. (Jason and Dan laughs) - Oh, everybody buys a car. They've upgraded their lives! - Yeah! So, it's like, you've taken all these people, you know, that didn't have money, food ,or housing, or transportation, and now they have.
They're middle-class! - They're middle-class. - You know? - Which doesn't exist in Haiti, because I think most of the people say middle-class pretty much lives in the US. Right? - Yeah, exactly. - Because they're foreign to- - Range rate.
Yeah, 85% of all Haitians leave the country that are educated. - Yeah. - Like 85% leave the country that are educated. - And what I found fascinating being there is that most of these workers are supporting, I think on average seven family members or seven families? - So, what they say in Haiti, there're rule in Haiti's, if you have a job, because unemployment rates like 66%. If you have a job, you support 10 people. If you have a job, and our jobs pay on average 10 times more than the normal jobs out there.
So, you could in theory, say that our like jobs support like 100 people. - Wow. - You know, because of what they're getting paid and what they're doing. And you see it like every day when we're there. We have bunch of people where their parents are don't have to work now, because their children able to support them. Their siblings are all in school now because they're able to support the education of them.
It's unbelievable the impact that we've been able to do there. And you know, I'm thankful every day when I go there and I see them and how appreciative they are of it. And I always say like, "It's crazy here."
I don't know if you've ever experienced this, but like, when snow comes in, people are like, "I got to work from home. There's like snow storm coming through." You know, in Haiti it's like, there is like a hurricane coming over and I'll get a text message and be like, "Okay, eye of the storm is coming over in 15 minutes- - That's our gap. - We're going to go offline for 15 minutes, back online in 30 minutes. Like nobody's going home, nobody's like...
Because their tenacity to deliver. - Committed. - And they're so committed because they know like I always say to people like, 360 will never fail: One because I'm determined as hell. And I will never let it fail; Two is because like, if it failed here and I only had pool employees in North America, we'll all be on unemployment, and we would still be able to have a house, and eat food.
Where in Haiti, they have nothing. Like they will be on streets, you know? I remember a long time ago, I was talking with Win, our archifiber, we're talking about- I wasn't in Haiti during the earthquake. They were already doing work in Haiti. Win talking about it and I was like, "Win what happened when that earthquake happened?" He's like, "We reached out to our manager and we're like-" because he give a dollar per ticket to Haiti, right? And he's like, "Any show you can book us, book us." Like if it's 100 people, 500 people, 1,000 people, 10,000, book us up! Fill our calendar because we're sending money to Haiti. And then I'm like, the drive that it gives you when you see the good you're able to do, you know.
It's unbelievable and they've done great things. We do a lot with them there, but you just see these people and the opportunity is like, they're so appreciative. - So, it's interesting because the benefit is clearly a bigger "Why", than just solving the market problem. - Yeah. - But I've also seen just the impact it's had onto the culture and in the people. I brought my group of clients that I coach, I think about a year ago, last May, to come visit and just see the culture.
I mean, it's very reminiscent to Zappos, but in Canada. And I know you're voted like best top place to work. How much of that is your culture driven approach versus the Haiti component or even just the other charities that you support within the organisation? Like, is it one of the same? Are they separate? - I think it all intertwined. What I always tell people is that we were building a company. One of our core commitments is to make a difference in the world, you know? And I always say, "We're building a company where we care." And if you want to be a part of 360, you have to care, you know, it's an important fabric.
And then it's not for everybody. It was like all cultures actually, you should be able to figure out that people coming in the door and knock on the door. - You use it to hire and fire. - Hire and fire.
You've met Travis at tonne of times. - Yeah, amazing. - Yeah, amazing guy. And our whole- - What's his title? Is he the Head of Culture? - Culture Curator. - Culture Curator. - He curates the culture.
You know. - He's amazing. - He is amazing. - The Culture Whisperer. - We bring them to sales meetings. they always say, "We support large brands." And we're like, "So, how many people that you met brought their Culture Curator?" We brought him here because he's responsible for the experience that our team gets.
And the experience that our team gets is the experience- - The work. - That your customers get. - Because you guys essentially, support your big brands to deliver an experience to their customers. - Yeah, exactly. - And I remember you telling me that one of your closing moves is essentially bringing some of these deals to Whitby. - 100 % - Walking them around.
- Yep. Why is that? How does that materialise into- - Infectious. People want to work with people that they like, you know. You've been to 360 before. - I was there for the Monday-
Is it the Monday meeting or Friday? I don't know what day it was, but it was like, you guys. I thought you threw us a party, but I guess that's what you do- - We do huddles everyday. - Yeah. So, you were there for huddle- - But it was like the new person one? - Yeah. - Like the first time I came you're like, "All right, Dan it's going off."
And all I heard, I think it was like in the bathroom. And all I heard was like, "He likes long walks on the beach!" (Jason laughs) And I come out and there're like high fives and cheering. - Yeah. - And that's just like
one of so many different things that you guys do, but like- - We still thinks from everyone and you know who I got that from? So, Jack Daly's like a sales coach- - I think it was your first day at work! - Yeah! But that's what Jack said to me. He goes, "Most companies celebrate when people leave." What the is wrong with that? - That's crazy.
- When you retire. - Yeah. - You're done. - He's like, "You celebrate the day they came!" I remember that he wanted to be first timer. - It's like Jack, Jack from accounting. He's just like, "What's going on?" (Jason laughs) He never high-fived another human being in his life. And you know, it was just like the energy.
I think Travis was there and then another lady screaming through the phone, Chrissy, - She's always screaming. - I mean, and then the name tags on the roof. When you look at, you know, for those that are fascinated around the culture side. Do you guys have like critical things that you think are important? I know you guys have, like what are the teams called? - A houses. - Houses. - Just like Harry Potter, buddy.
- Harry Potter. - It's to breakdown the walls between the departments. So, what we do, we have a culture ambassador that get voted in every year just like student council, and we started that year. I mean, the culture really started from, I wanted to build a place where I wanted to go every day. And I had a good friend, Todd Skinner, who I hired him to be in sales.
Two weeks in he's like, "Nobody's talked to me." he's like employed 12 or something like that. And he's like, "It feels like you want a culture bud-" And I'm like, "You know what's amazing? Is that's your job now." So, that made him Chief of Staff. "Chief of Staff?" - I love that idea. (Dan and Jason laughs) You're now in charge of that.
- Rule one of- - Bu, that's interesting. Running a businesses is the power of people, right? - And the one that says it, - Yeah. - They're the ones that have an opinion about it. Let them do it! - 100%! - Wow! - So he became Chief of Staff- - Hopefully everybody took that away. That's a really good idea. (Jason laughs)
- And Todd, one of the people that impacted me a life, pass. - I remember that. You guys do an annual workout for Todd. - Todd Wad every year. - The Todd Wad. - And so, Todd pass and we were trying to feel like, how do you live? How do you carry like that? What that guy brought? He was focused on, "How do you make people achieve the things they'd never thought was possible?" That was like his goal in life. So we're like, "Well, it's too hard for a person, but let's build a group of people."
So we created this culture ambassadors from it to, you know. And so they get voted in every year, the day he was passed and they kind of carry the torch forward, And they spend their time on figuring out, "What are the things we can do to make it a better experience, to connect people better, to help collaborate?" So, Houses came from that. So, Houses was like... Jay Weezy was on the team and she's like, "Harry Potter has houses that connect people together." And we have different departments, we need to keep connecting. - So, can somebody be in a different department on the same house? - Yeah. Yeah.
- So, the idea- - What do they? what's their like, do they get together? Do they like collude to do stuff together? - There's events that happen. And we try to put it around everything. Like right now, we're going through security training.
The first people to get security, train done, get points for the Houses, you know. Tomorrow's Jersey day for hockey and then whoever wears Jersey gets points. - And it's cross-departmental. - It's all department and then every quarter you have a House a winner, and you have a huge party for that. So, you do a celebration.
You bring in food. - For the house winner. - Exactly, for who wins. So, we do a big reveal every quarter. It's just, "How do you connect people across the company?" Because you don't always have somebody in finance working with somebody- - This is what blows my mind. I can't think of another company where people in different, like the engineering team and the accounting team are like, there's a reason for them to connect.
- Yeah. - Right? - So, like you join and you pick your House? Or are they? - No. It's drawn from the shark hat, so we draw from the shark hat. - You have a shark hat. (Jason and Dan laughs) - And you get it. So, the idea is that was one of the ones, another one we did is we did a clubs, one of my favourite things.
Anybody in the company can- - Like social clubs. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Start a club and you get $10 per person per month That shows up. - What's the weirdest social club you guys got? Not weirdest, most interesting! - I'm not going to say anything, because somebody's going to listen to me and be like, "Oh! Dude!" - Jason's favourite is this one! (Jason laughs) - What are some- - Do you like the beer club? The wine club, the cigar club. - Oh, I see where your interests lies.
(Jason and Dan laughs) - There's like the running club. I don't go to that one. (Dan and Jason laughs) - That's close for other people.
- There's the outdoor club You know, there's like curling and a baseball, and like all these clubs that- - And is there a minimum amount of members they need to keep? - 10 people. - Okay. - Yeah. 10 people and you get the money. - Okay, and how was it? $10 per member per month? - $10 per member per whatever event you do. - From $10 to $100 every, okay.
So, you can even do like a coding camp. - Yeah. - Club. - Yeah, whatever you want.
- Wow. - Yeah. But it's connection. I mean, wine club's pretty big one, but if you go to like the gym. - I should ask you to rank order the sizes the wine club. - It was like 60 to 70 people that show up to it. - They have a gym club? - No, no, no.
The wine club goes to the gym, because we have a space that big, right? - Yeah, yeah. - At the school. - What are they doing? Taste testing? (laughs) - Taste testing wine, they bring in people. (Dan and Jason laughs) - And you give them the space at your company. - We give them the space and the money.
- Wow. - So, they can drink during the day. - So, I mean, how would you distil culture? if you had to describe culture to another? I mean, you're such a staple in the city. I'm sure people come all the time for tours and stuff. what do you hope they take away as this is what culture means? - Culture is the way that people operate when you're not looking.
That's my view of it. You know, that's what I always tell people. And that's why you want to build a great culture. And there's different types of culture. We have a a culture of empathy, a culture of caring, a culture where people want to do what's good for our customer, and do what's good for the other people within our company.
You look at our core commitments, unbelievable- - Why do you call them commitments, not value? - We have values, too. - Okay. - It's our the higher arching thing, and then values are how we actually deliver on those commitments. - Okay. - So, you've got, "A global experience for our clients, unbelievable experience for our team, and to make a difference in the world." that's our core commitment. - Four. - Three.
And then values like, "Don't find a fault, find a remedy." Like, "Live in the possible." you know. "Be a fountain not a drain." Like,
"Give more than, than you take." Right? So, those are values that help us deliver on our commitments. - Commitments. - Yeah. - Got it. In regards to the connection part, which I find fascinating. Is that a retention thing? Is that a work ethic thing? Why is it important for people to feel connected? - If somebody called you into the problem, who is the person you're going to help, the person you're connected to. Right. I mean, at the end of the day,
shit happens every day, you know. who are you going to go to bat for, right? The person you have connection with. - So the more people you have connection for, the more people are going to be supportive of just solving problem. - To be cared about. - It's not going to be like this attitude of let's call somebody else it's not my problem. - Yeah. - How do you ROI this? - So everybody's like, how do you ROI culture? And I would say, "Well, if you look at a software company typical churns like 15% to 10%, whatever it is.
So, you take whatever the churn is of a business, and the divided by, the spend you have on culture, and you get an ROI. - So, whatever your churn is, you're doing nothing right now, that's your baseline. - $100 million company, churn should be $15 million.
I spend $2 million on culture. I got a 725% ROI on culture. - Yeah. - Right.
I mean, it's pretty simple when you think about it. And then at the end of the day, we win deals because people come to our culture, we keep deals because people come to our culture. Clients come and visit- - Just employee turnover to a customer even, they relationships. They've built a relationship with an account manager.
If that account manager bounces, then when it's up for renewal, it's like, we should probably go to the market and figure out what other options are, because I don't have really a connection anymore. - What if you built a company where all the account managers have the same values and deliver the same way and treat customers the same way. If Dan leaves, which is going to happen. - Yeah, doesn't matter. - Then Jason can step in. And they're like, he operates the same way as Dan did. He has the same values as Dan.
I think that's what's important. When companies come in and they build a relationship, clients build a relationship with somebody typically, but you have to always hand that over. A lot of times the first deals I won the deals, and then we had somebody else to win the deals, and then, but you're handing those customers to someone else to take care of them. - That are operating at the same- - Same way, same value system.
Right? If you're operating the same value system then people are going to be keep connected with you and your people. - How much of it, is it you> Because even last night we were flying in here watching you, sitting down, doing work, everybody else had a seat. You know what I mean? Like you, can't... A lot of it's from the top, so like how much of it do you feel is about your leadership style versus created from the teams? Because I'm sure you guys allow them to.
I don't know who created the commitments and the values, but it sounds like there's a lot of collaboration around that, you know? There's gotta be an alignment between Jason, Executive Leadership Team. - 100%. - Yeah. I mean, I think that there's, the culture at 360 wouldn't be the same if I wasn't there. And I think it's my responsibility to empower people to operate the way that I would want to operate, you know? And so, I do think it's really important. And I think that's why it's so important to hire and fire on that. Where I hire my next in commands based on those value systems, right? Like, "Who's to be ones like we just hired two VP people, like she's in responsible to carry that torch.
- That's Trinda? - That's Trinda, and she's amazing. And it's like, all the people, you have to ensure that you are hiring people the same value system as you. Because everybody looks at how the top operates within the organisation. - Why does Trinda share your office? Is there a strategic reason to that? - Yeah. I mean, what's the most important thing in the company, people. - That's crazy, dude.
- So VP literacy- - It's literally, Barb, your assistant and Trinda and you. - In that office. - And not the CFO which you talk to very morning, I guess. - Yeah. - Because she drives to work. - But also look at the position of the office.
Most of the things that you left are intentional - Yeah, yeah. - So, I'm at the door. - When you walk in it's like- - And they're both behind me. I can see everything on my screen at all times.
- Yeah. - Right? - Nothing to hide. - Nothing to hide. - Is that one of your core values, transparency or? - It's not, but I mean- - it's just, you don't have to have it. - It's just for me that's one of the things, like Barb has access to everything.
Like she has access to all my accounts of everything. She's access to all of my email. She has access to all of my account, everything. And to me, that's just about to build... And Barbs, my EA, she's unbelievable. To build a relationship you need a person that you trust.
So, how do you build trust with your people person? You put them in your office with you, listen to my phone calls- - Damn! - You know, everything, not many people do that, not many. - It just occurred to me today when you're walking us around that, that I was like, "It's not the CFO or, your exec, it's Trinda. That's fascinating.
How do you deal with the firing then? "How do you deal with whatever you want to call it?" Transitioning, moving people through alumni. - Yeah. - Things are not going to go get them. - 100%. I'm sure you've had moments- - All the time. - in the business.
If you don't mind sharing. If there was ever a system wide outage or some bad thing to happen and how you stepped up? How does that work? - I think that the core to everything, because people know that we'll always treat people with respect and take care of people, right? - How does that look? - So, on every single time, if we part ways to somebody, whatever the rules are in Canada, like two weeks, with four months, severance, six months severance, depending how long they've been in the company, We'll take care of people, you know? And, I've always believed in, we've done a bunch of acquisitions. And in acquisitions, You have to do consolidations of team and movement and those are all really tough things. The way you do it is through transparency. So, we made a change and we have a team being moved. And, you know, we told them eight months before we made the move, and we give them a four month package on the back end of that move, you know? And so how many people get a 12 month notice? That- - Their jobs going to be disrupted.
And that's the key, even if I hired, you know? And so, I'm very, very into hiring firing values. I hire VP of sales recommendation for the chairman on board, 23 days later, let the guy go pay them six months. That's a tough decision. Like, you hire an executive you got to tell your board you're hiring executive. - Especially if they supported it.
- Yeah. - And it's like, somebody they may know. - It came from them. - Yeah. They recommended the guy quit his other thing he probably he's doing okay. And they had to make that tough decision. There's treating people fairly, and then it sounds like this is, giving people four months.
Is there ever a point where it's just not good business to do that? Or do you just think how you treat people when they're leaving is how people are going to feel if they stay? - I think that, though it's a big world it's a small world, and we're all digitally connected. And you want to just, I mean, you want to take care of people, not because its just the business ends, which means, if you have a bad brand out there, you can't hire whatever. But I actually cared about people. I never want to put somebody in a position where it's like they can't go pay their mortgage because they didn't fit in our company. At the end of the day, it's our responsibility.
We hired them. If you hire somebody you have a responsibility. - you're responsibility that's important. - You know? And so, if you hire the person and you need to transition them out, you take care of that person because you disrupted their life, and you're going to disrupt- - You made a mistake because you should have caught it.
- Yeah, and it's the same when we buy a company. We buy a company, we buy it, and there's people there, and we need to make a change. It's our responsibility to take care of those people, right. To help them be successful in life, not to kick them down.
- And what do you guys do when you recruit? How do you test values? Or like, what's your process for recruiting to make sure that you don't make those mistakes? - So, I can't tell you all the things, because then everybody get around the system, but there is multiple- - Pretty sure, I'm not sure people that are watching this are- (Dan and Jason laughs) - Are applying? - So, there's a tonne of things that will happen. Like, you've got the testings to happen- - The good ones will though. Now, that I think of it, they'll search, "Okay. Jason CEO, let's see. Have you done a podcast?"
Oh, yeah, which is good! That'd be good! - So, here's your inside information. - Yeah, the fact that they went down that process to interview well, I think it would be fascinating. - You applied to the company in 24 hours, Congratulations.
Next round, you get sent a assessment- - You even look at the timeline for application to response. Cause that just sets- - I mean, that's just Trinda right now, is like, one of her things she's focused on this year - Is posting to hire- - the experience. - How fast posting to hire and interview to hire? - But that's the final.
Start posting online- - She treats it like- - Sales and Marketing, man. - Like sales. - You have top of the funnel, how do you build the funnel? - Boom! - How do you- - I hired a full-time, well a part-time core marketing, a recruiting coordinator, because I wanted somebody dedicated to this. - Yep. - I didn't think of going top funnel. So, posting to hire as the full funnel.
- Yeah, posting to hire. So, how do you build that funnel? So then what's a automatically, "Congratulations, You get an assessment." We do PI's, we do a character assessment to see how they'd line up to our job posting- - Was that first step? - That's a very first step. - Wow.
- So you automate it. So, you don't have people have to deal with it. - Yeah. - Right?
- So, you're essentially doing a filter base on that. Then depending on role, you might have a cognitive thing. - So, do they have to do a video submission or no? - They don't do video. We tried that a couple of times, and then we decided not to do it. - Well, if you're doing PI. - But we do PI and then we'll do cognitive for certain roles, and then people come in, and they'll meet with different people in the organisation.
But but how they- - Cognitive as in specific to a role- - How fast you can learn. - Yeah. - Right? And then they'll meet different people.
- What do you use for that? The cognitive side? - PI has a tool. - Oh, does it? - Yeah. - I just bought a licence so I should- (Jason and Dan laughs) - Yeah, you should. - Hopefully, it comes with it. I don't want to buy the add on module. (Jason and Dan laughs) Jason said you have this thing.
- Up sell, up sell. - He's like, "Shit, it's expansion revenue." - But yeah, you're going to then have to meet multiple of people. As they're in the office they're going to meet people randomly, in the office that aren't set to schedule meetings. - Oh, that's by design? You like plant people? That's so good! (Jason laughs) Like other candidates like, "This company's bullshit." It's like, "Yeah, me too."
- How are you in the parking lot? - Wow. - How were you in the parking lot, right? How do you treat a front desk? - It's actually what you said, "Culture is what people do when nobody's looking." - "Culture is what people do when nobody's looking." So, how do you find out what they're going to do when nobody's looking? - Ah! - I mean, we're not great at it. We're getting better at it every day. But like, we, for sure, it's an important thing for us.
You gotta hire the right people. - That's it? I mean, if you look at businesses like producing you know, sales, marketing, but then there's also people, too, like demand, fulfilment. And if you can get the people part figured out, I mean- - I would challenge anybody that if you have the right values and attitude of a person, you can teach them anything. We've all learned stuff in life. Like, if they want to learn something, and they have a passion for it, and they have the right attitude and value alignment you can teach them that. We always talk about in our company and the farm team.
We're big enough company. Now, what's our farm team? How are we creating the farm team for different roles? - Farm team is kind of like, I remember just Steve jobs talking about it, like 100 people. He did these offsites with like the 100 people. If he had to start Apple over again. Is that like the farm? - We have like an extended leadership team, like 50 people get together. How do we help bring them up? And then you need everyone in the company.
We have a hard time hiring sales people, one of the hardest jobs in the world to hire, right? So, what you do is you build a system when you hire your ADMs. How they move from ADMs to inside sales, to outside sales. - So, there's a career progression.
- Career progressions in every role. Give them education and training throughout all of it. And some are going to make it through, and some are going to stay where they are. But, I think that companies don't spend enough time hiring from within, and you can't hire from within because Dan's a good guy and I want Dan to be hired within.
You got to educate them. You got to give them opportunity. You've got to train them. You got to coach them, you got to mentor them.
You got to give them the outside education. Because if we give him all of that, then Dan will be successful. And Oh, by the way, if we invest in Dan, Dan is going to stay, because we're the ones that helped him get from $40,000 a year to $125,000 a year, because of all of that, he's going to have a commitment to us.
- Yeah, it's fine. I remember, I think it was Cameron Harold said, somebody said to him, "You know what if I do all that training and then they leave?" and he's like, "Well, what if you do the training and they stay?" (Dan and Jason laughs) - If you don't do the training, no one stays. (laughs) - You have a bunch of untrained people sticking around. Because that's the thing is a lot of the C players are just going to hang out as long as they can until somebody figures it out. - One of my beliefs is that, "I'm put here to make the world a better place."
And how do you do that? You just have to help people. So, you should always be training people. You should always be coaching, should be always mentoring, should help everybody be better than they are. I should be better every day than I was yesterday! Everyday I wake up, I'm like, "What did I learn yesterday?" And what I'm going to do today to make a difference. And if I can't answer those then I've done something wrong.
We should learn every single day. - So, you run a 600 person company, and you're incredibly active in the community. How do you? - too active? - Yeah, crazy active. (laughs) Couple million bucks in Angel Investments, and like accelerators. How do you prioritise? What's your filter? - Barb. (laughs) - Really?
No, but this is good, because I have my team. Is she the one that kind of whispers in your ear and say, "You really gotta do this, maybe not this thing?" - I mean, Barb for sure, control calendar. And the best thing to do is like never answer things on your calendar. Always let them answer.
Yes or Nos, because when people always go to her and then she can be my filter for the Nos, which I think is important, because there is always so much going on. And the other is like, and I suck at this, but it's like checking in with my wife all the time is a challenging thing. So, Barb sends Brenda a weekly summary of like what's going on for the last three weeks.
- I think you're the one that inspired me to have my assistant talk with Renee every Friday on that purpose. - Brenda, Brenda interviewed Barb. - Oh. - And she helped through on the decision on who we're hiring, because to me it's super important. That has to be a strong connection with between you two, because there's always so much going on. Sometimes something will happen and Barb would go pick up my kids from school. And those are the things that connection between the of two is really, really important.
And that helps keep me grounded, so that I can get stuff done that I need to get done. And I take on way too much all the time, you know. I know that, but it's like, I wake up every day and I'm like, I'm thankful to be here. I've had some people in my life that aren't here- - Thank God, Todd. - And I'm thankful to be Todd, my brother.
I should make every day the fullest. - Squeezes how much in that. - Which is horrible like, I went to bed at 2:30 a.m. last night. I got up at 6:30 a.m. today, like that's my normal day,
you know, four hours in bed. - You still wear the ring, too. I don't know why you do this to yourself. (laughs)
So, I wear the wedding ring to hack my sleep. (Dan and Jason laughs) And I'm like, 94. (Dan and Jason laughs) He's going to die! (Jason laughs) I think, like he has a 27 or something. Like low 40s and 50s. (Jason laughs) - Or he's like, "Oh! I've never seen score-" - Somebody (laughs) call in the team we need to find who this individual is. (Jason laughs) So, I guess that's the byproduct of being overly committed.
In, regards to the impact, tho. It's the culture side but it's just who you are. Where does that drive come from? - Actually, that's where I think that, I talked about it a while ago on an offsite and I'm saying, "My brother's a great guy, always want to help everybody, getting councillor, or help the community, all that stuff. And then Todd" And I think, those two guys in my life, these are guys that focus all their energy on helping others, and at the time I was like an idiot.
- We're you more business? - I was like, yeah. I lived in Ohio, I didn't see my brother for 90 days before he passed, like really shitty, or his kids, or my kids probably. I realised like all I was trying to do was climb a corporate ladder and build like this wealth or whatever. To do what? To die with it? You can't die with your wealth. - Yeah, you can't take it with you.
- Can't take it with you. So, since then I've just been like, my responsibility in life is to do all the impact that I should've done and they would've done. So, I've got three people's impact to do. And then, I just look at how do I build the system and process around me to make and impact.
I've a company that has a tonne of people at it. And so we're like these group, in Montreal called Kope, does amazing work in Haiti. I was like, "What if we just said, if you give a dollar a week from your pay, we'll match it, it's like a coffee week." We have 290 people in the firsts four weeks, signed up to give, now $140,000. - A year? - A year.
- Wow! - You want to talk about impact? That's impact. - So you can build the business and then do more good, Like you said earlier, you said like, "Build an army around it." - Yeah. Even the accelerator were in it's sponsored by all your vendors, essentially. (laughs)
So it's like- (Dan and Jason laughs) We pay you a lot of money to support us. Everybody said to me, "Jay, why are you so focused on billion dollar company?" I'm like because a million dollar company, if I give 1% it's nothing $10,000. - Yeah. - At a billion dollar company- - It's real money.
- If I give 1% is real money. It's $10 million dollars. If I can do 1% of a billion dollars- - Every year. - Every year. I make really impact, you know? Between 360 and myself, and what we do, and all of our people there. We're well over $500 million dollars year in impact. That's crazy. - Yeah.
- And that's growing from in 10 years, we might probably get $15,000 a year, and $500,000 million dollars a year, and I wanna be $1 million dollar a year. - And to me, I feel, because I've been around it, I've seen, I've travelled with you. It's just what you do, it's who you are.
The why behind that, I'm sure pulls you through those tough times. - Absolutely. It also adds a lot of stress to it. For me like I said because of my brother, because of Todd. It's like this driver, when he start doing stuff in Haiti, I was like, "I will never fail because I will never." Those people need that. - Will always have employment.
- But it's also is why we've been successful, is because of those things, because you have that driving force. - When you look back Jason to the last 15... How long have you been in company, 15, 20? 15 years-ish. Forever. - Since '97. (Jason and Dan laughs) - And you look at those journals, personally. Who have you had to become the entrepreneur, that gets to leads a 600 person company, building a billion dollar company? - I had to become a student.
I had to find the person or people who where I wanted to go and to learn. When I was young, I thought I knew everything. And I thought I could do everything. And what I've learned is that, "Life is about learning." And you got to spend the time at the feet of the people that have done it, and that's the fastest way to learn.
And you got to empower people. People naturally or inherently are good, and you have to believe in that. So, to do that you have to trust and hire and create values and empower people to make decisions. Jim Astel is part of the runs in my talks like that. He's one of my very first mentors and Jim said to me, "How'd you learn anything in life?" And I'm like, "I don't know."
And he's like, "How'd you learn how to ride a bike?" "You fell off." So, one of his mentions, which I love is, "Fell fast, Fell often, fell cheap." Make decisions, try stuff, and learn from it and move on. We learn from failures.
We've all failed at stuff, learn from it, right? But before meeting Jim, I thought I knew everything. Then I meet Jim, and I'm like, "Oh, that's a really good nugget." And then you start to learn like, "Holy crap, lot's of people have lots of really good nuggets." How do you spend time learning those nuggets from people? Like I had, Davids was an early mentor of mine, now investor of my company, now my board. But I'll have courtly dinners with Davis Stein, and I'd sit down and I'd sit down with him, and I'd still would think I knew a lot of stuff, and then he'd challenge me with something and leave him like, "God that guy's an idiot!" "He doesn't know shit!" And I'll try it and be, "Oh my God! He was right!" (laughs) Next time I was like, "You were right!" "People will pay me anyone advance upfront." You know? Like really good nuggets that I would've said were impossible would come from those things and I just realised, "Spend a lot of time with people to up level your game."
That's what life is about. That's what business is about. - Become a learner. - Become a learner. - Jason Atkins, man.
It's really honour. - All right, buddy. - All right, bud, appreciate you. Thanks for everything.