Using Verticals Spreads and Closing Orders to Lock in Gains | Active Trading Strategies
[Music] [Music] good afternoon everyone and welcome to our webcast technically speaking active trading strategies i'm connie hill i'm sitting in today for pat mulally who is out appreciate you being here when you think about active trading strategies how much time in your mind do you think the strategy or the trade per se should last just kind of ballpark i'm interested in your responses here today we're going to talk about that a little bit welcome to our veterans here who are giving us a friendly hello some of you are krishna vj sarah wayne and uh yes wayne barba's in the chat here today ganesh todd el diego robert ricardo jack and a few others that i can't quite get to but i'm glad that you're here today including tony and rogue dragon slayer i just gotta love that that name there welcome aboard so uh let's go ahead let's go through our disclosures i'll lay out our agenda and then we will get down to business as you're thinking about active strategies how long do they how long do they last oda you're the first one in here uh 30 to 60 days all right that's oda's estimation here do you want you to notice my twitter handle at chill underscore tda barbs uh as she is here in the chat to assist us and i'm always happy when barb's here she does such a great job her twitter handle is b armstrong underscore tda we'll post educational information throughout the day you'll want to be able to have access to that you know the last session where i was just doing chat an individual and i can't remember what the name was said they didn't really use twitter and didn't want to and i completely understand that but what you need to understand is this is the way that we can communicate with you we can't send emails you can't send us emails and so it's nice to be able to have that option to use twitter for that what we talk about today is intended for educational and informational purposes only it's not investment advice or a recommendation of any security strategy or account type options are not suitable for all investors as the special risk inherent options trading may expose investors potentially rapid and substantial losses we will not be necessarily getting into futures but be aware that option contracts do have commissions all investing involves risk including risk of laughs past performance of any security or strategy does not guarantee future results or success all right this will be our agenda today number one i want to make sure you know where to register for education week is now more likely than not you have been getting an earful full of education week and you are very well aware of it but there may be some of you that maybe are just logging in for the first time this week that don't know where that is and i want to show you because that education day will replace our regular programming uh the next item of business is trade management pat was out about three weeks ago on august 31st and i covered this class and i want to follow up with you on a trade that we did that particular day in the class and then we're going to be doing some trade examples using some shorter term techniques now as i go back to what you guys are thinking as far as uh how many days a uh an active trade might last okay so first we have 30 to 60 days from oda jack says the last five days juan jose says one to two weeks great uh any of all of those could be appropriate and as we get into our material here you'll get a little bit better understanding how i might re view that so first of all let's go over to td ameritrade and i've logged into my account here you can get to this page also by doing the education in your thinkorswim application i'm going to come over here to education i'm going to select here on this icon it's a green maze with a a graduation type cap in education and then as you scroll down here you'll see the different sessions that are going to be uh going throughout the day at their assigned times i want you to notice barb armstrong who is here her time will be at 1 45 eastern tomorrow she'll be talking about the do's and don'ts of trading in an ira and i'm going to say whether you are somebody that is approaching retirement maybe if you're somebody that's pretty young these all might be of interest to you if you want to register for them the specific classes and have a link sent to you go ahead and hit the register button right here all right uh let's see yeah dylan says you know whomever that was that was not interested in a twitter account i think is what you're referencing is create a fake one and only follow the tda instructors that's what you did fantastic yeah you don't you don't have to be personal about that twitter account you you could put john doe jane doe whatever you want right and you're right you have the ability to control what people are seeing and what you're doing all right first agenda item out of the way next agenda item is a trade we did last august 31st when i substituted for pat in this class we did a little trade on uh novavax and i'm just scroll in here i don't recall if we use the fibonaccis or not if you were here and you do remember you might have that in mind we did it we did a long vertical and i want to show you this is the day we got in that was the 31st of august and if we go over to our trade page which we're gonna do we are going to see that five days later we exited the trade all right so the green is our entry the red is our exit sometimes when people are thinking about certain types of strategies they might think uh that strategy is going to take a little bit of time that can be true with any sort of vertical any sort of option you're selling like say a short put that can be the case that that time decay sometimes takes some time to happen all right but if i look at this particular trade that we did here i would think yeah that would be an active trade it only lasted five days it wasn't something that we were looking to have go out for a month or two now i have pulled up oh let's get rid of this i have pulled up here let's go back here on the account statement this particular trade so on novavax here is our execution right here and we got into a 220 230 long call vertical it looks like we paid 515 for it it's a five dollar wide spread uh actually it's a ten dollar wide spread i take that back get ten dollar wide spread so if our max loss was 515 then our max potential gain would have been about 485 all right if we add 485 to 515 that's about 10 now one thing i want to point out to you here is that when we put the trade in we said we're looking for a net debit we put in our sell orders here we're looking for a net debit of about 877 to conclude the trade and that was to gather and collect a a portion of the maximum available which was what we say for 485 right uh we'd add 485 to our 5 in this case 515 and we're getting up there close to ten dollars now when we got out of the trade look at this it happened first thing in the morning on the seventh right after the market opened up right market open up starts trading stocks then the options start kicking in a minute or a minute and a half later we were filled on this trade and we had an order sitting out there just to collect it right we put it in when we got into the trade we got out of pretty dang close to our maximum gain in this particular trade now first thing in the morning sometimes prices are jumping around sometimes you don't know exactly what you're going to get filled at but we had said we want to get at least 877 out of it and lo and behold we got 1005. now i want to point that out because it's an important aspect i think of active trading which is have your exits in there don't don't think oh i sit here and look at the market all day and therefore i will catch anything that happens uh all of you i bet can can attest to the fact that that does not always happen even though you would like that to happen all right uh let's see here real quick and so dylan says did we close it in five days because it reached the short strike no we closed in five days because we put a closing order out there let's go back to it here the closing order that we submitted at the time of the trade was to get out if the price of the vertical were to reach 877 and in a long vertical that was about 80 percent of the max gain all right and so it wasn't simply because the price of the stock got there as it was so much this is what the price of the options were in that little bit of rent and what's interesting to take note of if we had not exited here or maybe on the high the day after look what's happened it's actually retraced its steps it's gone lower than where we got into the trade and that would be an example of if you didn't have the the closing order sitting out there to execute you might not be out of the trade in fact we might be sitting on the trade a little bit upside down and that's one of the real important things with active trading strategies knowing where you want to get out having that order sitting there so it'll execute for you uh let's see yeah we did we hit the profit target just reading the second half of your question there dylan all right let's proceed that's our management of our trade we did last time great let's move on to the next piece where we're going to spend the bulk of our time which is looking at some possibilities for some shorter term type opportunities and i'm going to say shorter term because many times that can be pretty active when you think of a shorter term opportunity what strategy do you think of does it have to be a long caller a long put it doesn't our trade here in novabax demonstrated the fact that we don't have to do something like a lung call or a long put could a short vertical be an active strategy yeah you bet it could have stocks made a big move fairly quickly and hit that that target of getting a maximum gain out of this the credit you sold yeah that can help it happen what about a covered call some of you might not necessarily think a covered call is an active strategy but it can be if it's a stock that's moving a great deal all right let's take a look here we are going to go with a stock that has been just coming up a lot in my scan of early morning movers the stock itself is upstart holdings upst is the ticker symbol you can see in my columns over here on the left hand side uh the one month move percent move of this particular stock in the last month has been 52 plus percent that's pretty hefty over the last three months 161.9 all right so this is a huge growth stock big big mover we can have sharp accelerations but they can also pull back on us pretty sharply as well now let me delete this fibonacci here because i want to redraw that for us so let's just remove that i do want you to see the stock was trading in a nice little channel here all right we used this for another trade in our class but in a different class i should say it's trading in this nice channel sometimes if you get a bounce on one side you could use as a target the upside of that channel and what we're looking at right now we have the stock kind of going a little bit sideways but it had a nice little three-day move up and then it moved back just pulled back a little bit a couple of days and today what are we getting we're getting a big strong candle we're getting a close above the high of the low day we'll call that a hold right and so it has that type of an entry now the question is going to be where do we think it would go well if this is the length of our flagpole and i duplicated it and i took it and i dragged it and i stuck it right here although you know what i'm going to do i'm going to move it down just a little bit closer to where the flag is we might look at this and go there's not a lot of room left based on this move it already moved 10 plus percent today maybe we're too late in the move and that could be the case we just don't know but what we do know is that this thing moves very short term it has been moving and so maybe being up 10 percent right now maybe is not such a big deal because of how much it moves all right let's see oh let me grab this out of the way here i thought barb might be communicating something to me but that's okay it can wait all right now uh if we put our mouse on this line and we see where the top price is here it should be flooding in for us here come on there it goes about 3 24. uh that doesn't seem that great seeing that the high price of the stock was at 327 today so it's almost like yeah maybe it's near its target area what else can we use to identify a target this is where your fibonacci can be really helpful to us all right a few weeks ago and i'm going to put a link in here a few weeks ago cameron may did a webcast on fibonaccis and he broke it down what is a fibonacci what are these ratios where did these numbers come from why do we even care we don't have time to get into that level of detail on it today but when we're finished in our post-production work i'll go out and i'll put a link in the upper right hand corner of your screen to that video that cameron did so those of you that want to dig into that maybe you're not familiar with it yet will be able to do so all right now on a fibonacci it is a tool that we can use to identify sometimes support levels sometimes target areas and we want to use a fibonacci on a full move meaning we find a top we also find a bottom in a stock that is moving upward we're going to start at the top of the move and drag in that drawing down to the bottom of the move so i'm going to use this day here this is september 9th that's the day that we're going to use and we're going to see that if i go and click on our fibonacci retracements i've got mine in a toolbar if you don't have a toolbar yet come over here to drawings drawing tools come down to this little thing looks like a percent sign that's our fibonacci retracement icon and select on it so i'm going to select on it here i'm going to go to the top of this candle and i'm going to click and when i click i want it to start drawing let's see if it will respond now there we go and i'm going to take it to a low candle well where is a low candle we could have it be a short term low candle we could have it be the bottom of the move in this particular case we're going to go down to the low of august 20th which is right here on this day actually i measured this red candle and the shorter red candle both had the same low it was 192.51 so i'm going to try to get that as close to that as i can 192. oh that's pretty close 51.
and then we know our peak price here on this day where i started drawing it looks like its high is 291 seven let's see 291 25. so let me just fix our our fibonacci here okay i'm going to edit the properties and i think this was 291 25 and this one was 192 i think it was 51. might have been 52. if not we're pretty dang close okay we're just gonna be a perfectionist here for a moment get the exact number in here and we're going to select okay now what we see here is that the stock did not pull down very far after it peaked in this particular move in fact it just went to what just went to the fibonacci retracement level of about 78.6 all right see how it's just bobbing along here yes that's a bob all right then it broke above the peak price this day pulled back and if we're concerned that maybe we don't have enough potential target here let's see what the fibonacci gives us we were seeing based on the height of the flagpole there was only a small amount to go left right uh the stocks at 325 and it was about 324 and some high change that would have been the target if we used this flagpole but if we're using the fibonacci we have a little bit bigger target to reach for we've got 350 to 27 could be the first target or i'm going to scrunch this down a little bit a much bigger movement and i say much bigger because it's almost a hundred dollars bigger would be the next lo likely major stopping ground for the stock could be at this 261.8 level now i would say that's a very very aggressive target a stock that moves like that is it capable of that it is capable of that but you can see here uh you know a hundred dollar move on a 400 stock is what about a 25 move uh and it moved last month 53 which was huge is it guaranteed to do that again no we never have guarantees do we uh but we can look at history and see what history has shown us so as we look at this here let's not take the pie in the sky target okay let's take our target here 352 27 which basically or 52 so we've got essentially what about twenty five dollars maybe twenty four dollars for the stock to continue to move before it hits that target now as you think about what strategies you might be most interested in there could be a couple of different things here uh there could be let me just look at a couple things here uh your there could be other potential strategies then just a one call or a long call vertical or a short put vertical when we're expecting a move typically you're going to go a little bit directional all right now some people might say well then maybe do a calendar if we expect implied volatility to increase well this stock doesn't have earnings for a while they have earnings august 10th so they're uh at least another a couple of months out before they're likely to announce earnings again right so we don't necessarily have the ramp up of implied volatility potentially going our direction now implied volatility well that's kind of interesting uh let me let me fix its little thing because half of its graph is out of the way didn't realize i did that to it there we go that looks a lot better we can see our implied volatility you can see it was kind of had run up a little bit at that last earnings previous and then coming into this earnings the implied volatility actually dropped off and it's been dropping off since then so does that give us the idea that implied volatility is super high or super low i would say it's in a lower range from where it has been more recently rf says maybe we could do a long synthetic that definitely is a possibility as a calendar and a diagonal the same they are a little bit different all right a calendar is when we're long a particular strike price that's further out in time we're going to put a diagonal together today maybe it might be a that long leg might be a november or december option and then we sell something much closer to our current time frame so we might sell an october option all right uh with the idea that maybe we could sell more a diagonal we're going to start out with different strike prices on a calendar you're using the same strike price although on a diagonal we do the same thing we go out a little bit of time in that long leg again could be november december something like that given that we're in september and then same thing it would in a diagonal you're going to short sell a short leg that's closer in time in fact let's see what we would have here uh we we do have a november we do have a december and so if we were going to do a diagonal we'd pick a strike price that's different sometimes that's going to be a little further out of the money all right it doesn't have to be but many times it is okay so that's just the difference between the two calendar same strike diagonal different strikes but the same idea that long leg going out a little bit in time see if there's any other comments or questions i need to hit here all right i think we're good let's well we are going to come over there to the trade tab we have some possibilities we know options isn't or earnings is not coming up so that isn't a factor but what if we came out here open up the october options i've already got a trade going on one from a different class it happens to be a covered call trade which that's what that position is for i don't want you to be too concerned about it because we'll use different strike prices here and so what if we were to do a long call vertical here knowing that we're likely well if history is any indication of what could happen going forward we've got that trend that's bullish we have the stock that's continuing to move up again it's not guaranteed to we could reverse directions at any time on us right any bad piece of news could come out and stifle that growth but let's suppose we're interested in doing a long call vertical on this it is a little bit of an expensive stock 325 traded over 6 million shares so far to date so lots of liquidity when we see that in the stock we're likely to see that in the options as well so let's look at doing a strike price we could do 320 would be a little bit more conservative we could do 325 which is technically at the money um on the 3 30 i do like the 65 or 651 open interest but the next month out is a little bit shy there only four let's see if i've got these in the right order you have four open interest contracts i'm going to add a column here that i usually have up i'm not sure why it's not up right now i'm going to bring up volume see what's been happening today so let's look up volume i'm going to grab that at it and i like it to sit next to open interest so we're going to plop it there kind of got our custom columns going here sometimes if we can see some activity taking place today then it maybe gives us a little bit more comfort when we have low open interest because tomorrow whatever the balance of contracts is left at the end of the day is going to move over here to the open interest column it might not be 96 right it might be another number but it gives us the idea there's some activity going on here all right so if we want to look at something more conservative would do the 320 and the 325 i see volume coming over here today uh 243 to go with those 27 open interest contracts again we we could feel a little bit better about the more activity going on here so let's start with the more conservative we're going to compare it uh to one that's less conservative so we're going to go 325 we're going to say buy vertical let's see how much that's going to cost us uh it's a a five dollar wide spread if we're going to split that price down the middle uh we'd say okay 200 or 250 spread to buy the option would leave a 250 spread for a max potential gain so max potential loss if we're trying to make it be a one to one ratio could work out this way now in this case and i'm going to lock this in it is slightly higher than 225 right so we would be risking 235 to make what what's five dollars minus 325 that's going to put us at uh 265 okay so 325 to 265 interesting let's open up our scratch pad and let's just put a few notes in here okay those were my last notes we're going to stick it in this space so max max loss on this one's 235 max gain is 265. so it'd actually be risking more
than what we have to make like that's could be conservative right let's look at the next one we're going to put this keep this as a blast all so we can see different ones lined up and if we come back up here and we say okay let's get the one that's at the money that's the closest to 325 right now well we would start with our 325 strike we'd do a right mouse click buy vertical and now we can see him i'm going to collapse this we can see i'm sitting side by side here so the second one i'm just going to lock it up it would not cost quite as much to 20 and then our max potential gain on it would be what 280. so which one's more conservative which one's more aggressive max loss here is 220 max gain here 280. all right so the one we would consider more conservative would actually be this top one here why is that it's because the reward risk ratio is a little bit tighter if we were to pull this up in our calculator let's get rid of the news and open up our calculator here the first return if we say our max potential uh gain is 265 and divide that by type 235 that's about 112 gain okay and that's the conservative one the next one let's just calculate what that would be would say all right max gain is 280 for a risk of 220 uh it's about a 280 return and something you might be thinking those are too aggressive you know a couple of weeks ago i taught a webcast on higher probability long verticals and in that class we talked about if you go with the money a little bit more it makes it more conservative so in this case if we're selling say the 325 what does the stock need to do well it's already above 325 we would just want it to stay above it the more it goes up the more quickly we could wrap in a higher percentage of the gain to be to be received which in this case would be about 265. now if you really wanted to be more conservative we could do this we could open this back up we could go further in the money we could say instead of starting at 320 we start at 315. again that's why that
volume is important to be able to see because initially if you're thinking there's only 11 contracts out here it would probably scream danger danger right you don't want to be the only one or one of the very few contracts out there right so that open interest here is real helpful we could do we could do a 315 320. when we sell the 320 then it has a lot more leeway here doesn't it has over six dollars of leeway let's see what that looks like and then i'm going to ask you guys to vote i want you to tell me what you think you like the best for you personally there's not necessarily a right or wrong we say do that vertical uh this one actually if we're risking 250 we wanna then it's to risk risk 250 to make 250 and that gives us a hundred percent return so we have our max loss of 250 oops lost my m max gain of 250 equals 100 percent now which one do you like the best did that wrong let's put a number one in there which one do you personally like the best of those three let's say we've got a b and c that last one's going to be c all right i'm just looking over here rg thinks we had a calculator error um maybe tell me a little bit more about that i mean this number is quite high do you think that was the one that's off let's try it again if we say max loss of 220 actually would go 280 divided by 220 and i may have done that backwards let's clear everything out here okay max gain of 280 divided by max loss of 220 okay it's more like 117 okay that one thank you rg 117 percent it's a little bit different these are all kind of clustered together then pretty close aren't they thank you for catching that for me so i could go back and fix that uh diego says the current iv percent is not available let me collapse this out of the way and i don't have the percent implied volatility for each individual strike price here but we can see up here 81 that is a high number there is a lot of volatility and time priced into these options especially on the volatility component when we see numbers that are that are high like that in fact if you see something maybe even above 40 you might consider that starting to get into the high range let's see if there was anything else okay serena says that since the implied volatility is high i'm leaning towards a short put vertical and you very well could okay uh what i wanted to make my point here today is that sometimes if we're our expectation is to have some movement versus just staying above a certain point then some people some traders might consider doing something a little bit more aggressive and this one would be a little bit more aggressive compared to a short put vertical but it doesn't mean you shouldn't do a short vertical what if you're really good at it right and that's your bread and butter strategy and that you feel comfortable doing it whenever you see a bullish setup yeah that very well could be the case all right rg you like you think this should be 127 um it could be the last time we calculated it was 117 percent so maybe we've got some rounding errors there all right what do you choose guys a b or c a so 112 return b 117 or if you do math like rg did and i'm not sure which one of ours is right maybe 127 so certainly more aggressive or the last one c where you're risking about the same amount to make the same amount and you're already starting with both strikes in the money uh yeah manny says could you explain again the percent numbers in the strike price bar i think what you're looking at here and you can correct me if i'm not going to the right place this number here represents the percentage of implied volatility priced into this series of options those that expire this friday so the next week out only has 10 days it's not as much 81 next period out about 82 percent the one we've been looking at is about 81 and it gives us an idea hey is is there a lot of implied volatility already priced in here or is there not a lot and then we can also use the graph with the charts um to see historically if it looks like it's higher if it looks like it's a little bit low and it looks like implied volatility has been significantly higher in previous periods of time all right let's see we've got a couple of votes for b actually we have three votes for v we have three votes for c yeah so um there's not a right there's not a wrong now i was hoping we had a tie breaker in here we don't have a tar breaker but i'm going to go with the more conservative one the most conservative all the ones we've looked at we're going to do the two 315 320 noting that we want the 320 to be above the uh b and the money by options expiration which means it can go down a little bit it can go flat it can go upward like the expectation is so i'm going to delete these two get rid of that one we're going to get rid of that one we're going to say first trigger sequential here and we're going to put in the buy back order just like i showed you on the unbox trade how important that was if we created an opposite order here what's 80 of 250 if you say if we get 80 of our max gain great so if we go 2.5 times point eight for eighty percent we're going to say that's two dollars so we're going to add two dollars to our our price already of 250 that's going to say we want to buy this back when the price of the option gets up to 450. that's a majority of it it's not a hundred percent of it but we're happy just taking out a giant slice and not feel thinking we've got to get every last little penny out of the spread we're going to make this good till cancelled if we're willing to risk 750 in any trade we could actually do three contracts here so i'm going to adjust that we're going to do three contracts if everything went wrong we had our max loss that would be 250 so three contracts would take us up to 750. you'll notice a little commission here because they're options and i'm going to put this in our let me put it in our sample traits i don't know if you and i are going to be able to follow up on this trade but if pat's gone another week we might be able to now there's one other i'd like to show you uh this one is adobe adobe has earnings tonight okay adobe's been upward trending we can see its last few earnings uh here was their earnings here on the what date was that let's see if it'll balloon out our little button's in the way so that was on 3 23 after the market closed and what did it do the next day it ran up and then it dropped so immediately the next day it went down but then it started this nice little run after the fact that can help you if you have maybe considered going bullish on it but you need a little bit more time for the trade to develop not necessarily just the day after what happened here they announced after the market opened it or it opened up about let's see how many dollars 551 to 565 so it opened up about 15 higher it's kind of an expensive stock and then it continued to run is it guaranteed to jump up this time it really isn't is it some of the software companies have been doing well but it's not guaranteed that adobe would what kind of a trade would we consider doing here now when i looked at this earlier i was seeing overall it had been trading in a channel the last uh last two days yesterday and today it's outside of that channel however could it quickly jump back up into the channel yeah i could and so could we use as a marker here maybe the top edge of the channel oh good here our our stock or our trade we just put through got filled we could say maybe something in the 700 range or actually this is about 670 could be a potential target if we're just going directional and same thing here we've got to decide what strategy might we look at on this one if we come over we're going to use these same options 24 days selling time people like to sell between generally 20 to 50 days worth of time could you sell more than that yeah could you sell you less than that absolutely okay but this one happens to be kind of in that target area on the smaller side of it so not having a ton of time uh and what if we looked at something here what if we looked at doing a short foot vertical all right if we said let's go with um the 460 let's see where that puts us out and no 460 is way too deep in the money what if we start here about say this 32 delta the spread is not that bad you guys spread is pretty decent pretty efficient for us if we were to say sell vertical then we would want the stock to do what stay above it short leg which is 625 well the stock is already at 647 so we've got about 45 dollars of leeway now we would expect the implied volatility to collapse uh implied volatility is about 35 here on these options the options that expire sooner or higher right if you wanted to be real aggressive you could do the ones that expire friday or the friday of next week okay this should have some collapse of volatility some collection of that but it also gives us a little bit more time for the play to execute that's the reason why we're gonna go out 24 days let's lock this in a buck 40 would be our credit that would get here and we're going to do another first trigger sequential we're going to create an opposite order and then when we get a majority of a buck 40 let's go buy it back let's not wait for it to get all the way up to the top of the channel although somebody could especially if you're doing something real directional here we're doing something that's somewhat directional but not nearly as much as upstart is uh on our my column here with adobe it's up three percent this month it's up 14 for the last three months so it's not bad right it's not bad at all there definitely are some increases there but it's maybe less directional than maybe what we were seeing with upstart but it still could be a a trade that is a very active trade all right if we have a buck 40 and if we get let's say 85 this time about 40 times 1.15
means would have about 21 cents left all right so we're going to say hey when you get to 21 cents go buy me back get me out of the trade go be another index all right that you have your order sitting there and if it runs up there hits it gets you filled you are a happy camper all right don't worry that you're leaving a little bit of money on the table that's kind of what we do with this strategy if our max potential loss here was in the neighborhood of what three 360 then we could do two contracts here oops wrong way we're going to do a couple of contracts three would be too many there we go we've got our matching two let's hit confirm and send just review it there are some commissions it's an options trade and we're going to put this out in our sample trades bucket hit it off off it goes now we did two different types of trades here we did a long vertical we did a short vertical with a couple of different opportunities and we spent some time looking at our previous order seeing how important it was to actually put in uh the buyback order the one that says lock in my profits or a majority of my profits and off we go vijay said maybe doing an iron condor would be a possibility with with adobe yeah that certainly could be a possibility well let's just go check our agenda here we told you about education day if you haven't signed up go sign up if you do not sign up you still can access the classes via going into our schedule where it says shows you the upcoming webcasts it'll show in there okay if you do prefer to go that way rather than camping out on youtube all right we looked at our inbox trade we did a couple of examples with the idea these are not long-term trades these are pretty active we're hoping to be in and out of them pretty quickly but we've structured them in such a way that hopefully they will execute quickly for us uh and we've already got in either a way out of the money option or way in the money option that would work the probabilities in our favor very good well i think that about sums it up here you guys i appreciate you being here today one thing i would encourage you to do is when you're setting up trades decide how long you want that trade to go on all right in terms of saying hey i think it'll take 10 days i think it's going to take two months have a ballpark number so you know what your expectation is and i'm going to encourage you to put in those buyback orders so that you don't have to catch it that the system will catch up for you all right now as we wrap up here need to remind you what we've talked about today is for informational and educational purposes only not investment advice or recommendation of any security strategy or account type options are not suitable for all investors even though that's what we've done here today there are special risks inherent options trading that may expose investors potentially rapid and substantial losses barb i thank you for helping me out here today barb's got a link in there for education day perfect i did not recall seeing a survey out here let me just look real quickly yeah i do not see one if there is one do me a favor and fill it out if i've neglected that and haven't seen it but i i don't think we see one here today so if this was helpful for you today hit the like button and don't forget to join us for education day tomorrow have a great rest of your day and like barb said it looks like we have swing trading with john mcnichol coming up next thanks everyone bye-bye [Music] you