Trading Vertical Spreads | Review | 4-24-19
Good. Afternoon everyone welcome. To trading. Vertical. Spreads, for. The last few weeks we've gone over some of the different, vertical. Strategies, that are available such. As long. Call verticals, long. Put verticals, we've. Done short, put verticals, as well, as short call verticals, now, this week it's, all about the review so stick around. All. Right well good afternoon everyone. John McNichol, here and welcome, to, trading, vertical, spreads this is our review for. April 24th, 2019. Do, appreciate everyone that is here with us live today, as, well as those of you listening to the archived session I see. You there Ricardo Paul Gloria thanks for being with us let's. Take care of our disclosures, and we'll get right into it. Remember. Options are not suitable for all investors as, the special risks inherent, to options training may expose investors, to, potentially rapid and substantial, losses carefully. Read the provided. Copy of characteristics. And risks of standardized, options, spread. Straddles, and other multi leg option transactions. Often. Entail substantial, transaction, costs include, multiple Commission's which, may impact a potential return also, advanced option strategies often involve greater more complex risk than, single leg option trades and also. Some. Investors, may wish to consult a tax advisor regarding, to tax treatment applicable, to, those types of spreads. Now. In order demonstrate to function on the platform we need to use actual symbols keep in mind TD Ameritrade does not make recommendations. Or determine, suitability of, any security or strategy, for individual, traders any investment. Decision you make and your self-directed account is solely. Your, responsibility. Now. We're. Gonna be utilizing the demonstration, account here today. Utilizing. It looks like a real account but actually it is a demo, account these, are practice trades you. Have the ability to practice as well utilize. In the paper money software, keep. In mind the paper money software is for educational purposes and successful, virtual trading, during, one, timeframe does not guarantee success during, later time period as those, market conditions, change continuously. Now. We've, utilized, tools such as Delta, to give an understanding, of probability. Of options. Expiring in or out of the money keep, my probability, analysis, results, probably have an option expiring in-the-money, it's theoretical, in nature not guaranteed, and does not reflect a degree of certainty of an event occurring. As. Always past performance, the main security or strategy does not guarantee future results nor, success and for. Your information provided. For you, the Greeks Delta, Gamma theta Vega, theta. Having. An understanding, of the impact of price, volatility, and time on an, option is essential. And that information is provided for you on your option, table as well. As potentially. In your, portfolio. Page. So. As I mentioned from, our intro their last, few weeks we've gone, over some, of the different vertical strategies. That are discussed, in the, trading, options, course those. You that are new to us certainly, welcome here if, you find that some of the things may be a little over your head we'd certainly encourage, you to attend, the, getting. Started with options, with my good friend Barbara, Armstrong that's every Friday at 11:00 a.m., we. Will utilize some charts as well on top of looking, at some of the probabilities. There if. One wants to learn more about the charts we do have the getting, started with, technical, analysis, and charting, essentials, with Cameron May every, Monday. At 11, a.m.. Probably also insert. Here as well, coming. Up into the summer here, those. Of you that know me over, the years, summer, time I have a tendency to be a little scarce due. To some of my military commitments, so. For. The next two weeks I'll, have someone be covering down I believe Cameron, will be covering this session. I'll. Be attending a command course with, my battalion. Commander at, beautiful, fourth Leavenworth Kansas. I'll. Come back he'll be back for two weeks and then, I'll be gone for another, five, weeks as.
I'll Be taking, a trip over. To Normandy, for. The 75th anniversary d-day. Can. Barely mention it without getting choked up but I mean, for, other paratroopers, are going, to be joined about three other hundred. People, to. Actually fly, across the English Channel and drop. In the Normandy on June 5th. Which. Is just, before d-day. There so it's, gonna be a great experience when. I come back I'll, be joining, my battalion up in Montana, and we'll, be doing three, weeks of pretty, hard training and so, looking forward to that so. Looking. Forward to seeing you guys want to get back so appreciate, you and, let's. Go ahead and get in our discussion for today. Which. Is again. More of a review we. Mentioned out the different trading strategies, in, the past over, the last few weeks you're, welcome to go back and listen to that archived session, as well, and as, mentioned all, of these strategies are discussed, in the trading, options, course accessible. Under. Your education. Tab so. We'll review some of those open vertical trades that we have currently and then what we'll do is we'll go ahead and look at a watch, list for other, potential. Vertical, trades we won't hamstring. Ourselves, on a particular, option, we'll kind, of run through, expectations. As far as price volatility. And time it could be a determination, on which vertical, one, may, choose, so. Really what our learning objective, is for today, is. Utilizing. The. Thinkorswim, platform on being. Able to utilize. The monitor, tab on. Closing. Out existing, positions, as well. As utilizing, the. Charts. And. Determining. Potential. Entries. From a watchlist, you should be able to repeat some of these and practice. These on your own so. Let's. Go ahead and bring that up we'll. Go to the, thinkorswim. Platform we'll. Talk about our, existing. Positions, and in our considerations. For long and short verticals, so, we got the tab up right now. And. Looking at the chat as well John thanks for joining us along with Gloria hey feel free if you have any questions, go, ahead and type those in the chat window would certainly love to hear from you and also keep an eye on that chat at the, end or towards the end of the session we'll push out a survey, out to you and we would certainly love to get your feedback all. Right so. Looking. At the monitor tab with, some of our existing. Spread. Trades. We. Have them all categorized. Right, here we've, grouped them in the, in, an area which I call, the trading, verticals group and I. Believe I've. Added all. Those positions in, there. Sometimes. We have a few stragglers that, may appear, they. Go into justice screen a little bit looks like we just ran off the screen a little bit well. Just that. And. Yes, looks like we have them all allocated. They're. Some. Of the other trades are actually from some other various, webcasts there so. Just going from the top to the bottom, Federal. Express FDX. Now. A couple things and, some of you may already be utilizing, some of these tools the. Monitor, tab is customizable. So. Notice. That there are different column headers here i. If. You'd like you can go to, the gear. For. That window, you're looking at which we have these groups as verticals, if I click on the gear under, customizable. Columns. You. Can go ahead and add some additional, columns, we have some of the Greeks on there already a, couple.
Ones That I've added individually. Is PL. Percent that question actually came up in a previous session and thank you for. That, student, who had brought that up I knew. There was a way of bringing up the, PL. Percent. For. A position. However. In the, long list that appears sometimes. It's a bit elusive on trying, to bring it up there but. It is P, /l, %. Someone. Can go ahead and see the, PL, for, a position, if, one's utilising, a potential, target profit. Or, loss. We. Can easily apply that I also. Went ahead and, put. The trade, price in there as well so that. Can save from right-clicking, on an, underlying and, bringing up the trade information, that way although, if you want to get a more detail you can do that but, we added the trade price there okay. Now you, can certainly add whatever fields that you want you, can also move them up and down in the list wherever. You'd, like as well. Okay. So, it's Federal Express. You. Can see as far as the position, it. Is an example of a put, spread, but. What type of put spread is it did. It result in a debit or a, credit. Well. If you look at the trade price, we. Had sold. 420, and. Bought. 270. So a four dollar 20 cent credit with, a $2, and 70, cent debit should, be a net credit and. So. In that case that was a credit, for. About, let's, see that should have been a. $1. $2. $30, 50, should, have been the net, credit. Now. Where we stand right now, well. The P&L on. This, position, is. At around, 75%. So. When we incorporate, that. Particular. Math there if, we sold a buck 50 I can, right-click on the underlined to create a closed in order notice. We. Can potentially buy back the spread for 37, cents so, this was a short spread, profit. In from the, depreciation, of. The. Spread and that depreciation. Occurs. With, the passage of time and. Potentially. Quicker if the. Price has a favorable, movement, this. Is a bullish. Put. Spread bull put spread is a, credit. Spread. Now. With that in mind if, one one and two they. Can close out the position, once, it hits that predetermined. Target we've used some examples, of, 80%. Of the, maximum gain you. Know other traders may say well if I made 50 percent or 60, or 70% they. May go ahead and utilize that as a potential. Exit. Okay, so. We're pretty close on that. If. We go and look at the chart FDX. As. We bring that up. Now. Some traders may make the argument, as we look at Federal, Express currently, what type of price, pattern, has formed, we. See an example of a, flag. A bull, flag and, prices. Traded, above the high the low day if. You recall from some. Of our previous, discussions. For a bullish. Entry. One. May look, to open a position as the, price bounces, so. Whether one, a constructing. A new spread, or, if one is in existing, spread may, look to see how, the price, rallies. If at all. If. We wanted to go ahead and and add another spread, we. Can do that you know one go back and look at an. Earnings. Event now, some of these stocks have came out with earnings already, others are still pending. Some. Traders may avoid those, earnings, event. You. Know as certainly. Not have an indication of what, that event may pretend. And where. Price may go after that. So. Let's go ahead while, we're at it here and we. Have Federal Express let's, go ahead take a look see if we. Can construct another. Could. Be able put spread. Which. Would look. At an expiration. And. Analyze are covered in the training. Options, course, looking. For a period of time that. Is closer, to expiration but. Has, a reasonable. Return on risk, as. A starting, point we may be looking at 20-some, to 50 days out, pros. And cons if one, is looking at closer in. Then. One, may, certainly potentially, realize their gains much, quicker, however.
If. Price. Goes. Against you there. May not be enough time for price to recover, so. It may be a bit more binary as you get closer in maximum. Gain maximum loss. If. One goes further out, when. They realize. Notionally. A greater premium, but, may have to wait longer to. Profit. From, that depreciation. So. Let's see if we start off at around 223, days and look. At the put side we'll. Look at of the money. Looking. At. Deltas, that are. Certainly. Less than 50 would be out of the money we. Can look at an example of a range from 30. To 40 for, an example. Some, traders may go further out. The. Smaller. The Delta. Represents. The higher, the probability of that an option expiring, worthless, but. Notice as when one goes further, out of the money the. Premiums, associated. With them decrease, higher. Probability. Less. Reward, so. It's a matter trying to find a balance between the. Reward as, well. As as a potential, risk because, as one goes further out of the money you, are. Risking. More, than. One can potentially, receive. As far as a return it's. Kind of a lopsided there, but, again it's based off the probabilities. So. Sometimes. The balance may be found somewhere in between, hence. Where some traders may focus on certain strikes. Now. A volatility, is much higher you, know some traders may go further, out because. There may be more, premiums, to be had there. So. If we go ahead and, we'll. Utilize an example of 192. That's. 192 50 to, sell we. Can look at the chart and see. In where, that sits in. Where. That sits in as far as, just. Trying to bring up the chart here. Where. That support, is you. Looking at the low of the flag is. Add, around. 194. And change. The. 190. To 50 strike. Would. Essentially be at or below support. That's. Where some traders may, be looking, for to, construct a, short, put, vertical. To. Have it at or below support so with this example a. Probability. Basis. Based off of selling. Closer to at 30 Delta. Which. Translates, it at least at current state 70. Percent probability, of the. Option, expiring worthless or, price staying above 1, and 192 50, plus. With. That. Strike, being at or below support a technical. Basis as always, situations. Can change you. Know economic, reports, earnings. As well although not, necessarily impacting, on Federal Express at the moment we'll. See where it goes. Now. Paul asked a question is the, concept, of Delta, when doing verticals, more, important. Than, IV, or implied volatility. Alright. There's, not necessarily one, thing, that makes it quote, more important. All. Of them have a play in it Paul if we. Were to go ahead and add implied. Volatility. On this chart, we. Can go ahead and go to the. Studies. And. Edit. Studies and. One. Can go ahead and actually add this. To the chart implied. Volatility. Probably. The the simple answer is that. As. I showed you the Greeks, at the beginning. Delta. Reflects. Price. Theta. Represents. Time and. Vega. Represents. Volatility. So, when, once consider, in an options. Trade you, really again just, have to ask yourself those three questions what. Is the impact what. Is your expectation. So. What's. The expectation, for price over, X number, of days incorporate. In price. Incorporate. In time, if. We're, looking at implied volatility, as we will with Federal Express what. Is the impact of volatility, is expected. To, have a, potentially, negative effect or. A, positive effect. And, we, can possibly, deduce, that by looking, at that IV chart so let's go and bring that up. So. In this chart right here I'm not sure why expand it out that far but let's see if we can close that in a little bit. So. You have an implied volatility, chart which shows, the. Impact, or. The. Historical implied, volatility, on something like FedEx, now. As you. Look at the range and this is going to vary from, different. Different. Stocks we're going to different volatilities if. We look at the range we're. Kind of in a relatively, lower range on where, we've seen. Federal.
Express At least over the course going to beginning of the year now some people may look back for the last three four months six months may, go back even farther you. Can go ahead and see where the, relatively, high range is. However. Even though there's a high range and a low range there's. Also, the. Actual numbers, and in. This case from low to high, the, implied volatility, on, Federal. Express ranged, about ten. Points, so. Ten percentage points. Now. If you go back to the option. Table and. Bring. Up the Greeks. You. Can't have Vega and there's Vega right here on the chart so these, Greeks will also demonstrate the. Potential impact, of volatility. On. Both the long and the short side. Now. For. Instance right now the. Current position on Federal Express has. A negative. Vega. That's. Negative, Vega what that means if volatility. Rises and, that's what Vega, is a measurement of the. Volatility, rising, that. Would have a negative impact on a short, position. Most. Are short positions, are going to be showing up as negative, Vega whereas. If the volatility Falls that, will have a positive, impact so. This is where the Greeks basically, show that impact. There's. The impact of volatility. Delta. The impact of price if. For, every dollar, that. Federal. Express Rises. Or. For a dollar the Federal Express Rises currently it's. $30. Now, as the price goes higher and higher that Delta will change, we. Can see the impact of time. Which. Is Theta that's ten dollars ten dollars a day and that. May continue to increase as one, gets closer to expiration. So, as a combination. To your. Question Paul as you, can see the impact of all three and. In. This case for. Instance. Over the last next ten days. One. Can deduce that, theoretically. This. Position, would pick up about, $100. Based. Off the time decay, however. If volatility. Arises. Let's, say volatility, goes ahead and rises two. Percentage, points well. That hundred dollars would, actually be closer, to only, sixty dollars so. Rise. In volatility on a short. Position, can. Slow. Down that. Depreciation. However. You. Can't run away from time in, 23. Days if price. Is above, the, short strike this, position, will have a maximum gain it's, just the in between, that, that Vega can, have that impact let, me know if that helps. John. Bet John, best R John asks about open, interest, impact. Well. If, I understand. Where you're going with that John open, interest kind of points towards liquidity.
As. You get closer and closer to expiration. Options. Maybe less. Liquid, as those. Options, are falling, off. You. Can go ahead and view that by just, going up to the layout and bring. Up. Volume. And open interest and. You. Can see where. The. Volume is which is the daily, trading activity. For those options. Looking. At the one 9250, only. Seven contract, open. Interest about. 38, they're, kind. Of interesting how very relatively, low compared to interests open. Interest on other ones. One. Of the. Factors. That one can incorporate as well as we've spoken in the past is looking, at the bid and ask, price, the. Difference between the bid and the ask price can be a guide, to, some of that liquidity all those, things can open and close the. Smaller the spread. The. More relatively, more liquid, the, ease of getting into that trade so. With. That one 9250. There's. A spread of about five cents. That's. Fairly. Common for a liquid stock. If. They're. Priced above three. Dollars I've actually, they, could be as low as a penny if they're, priced below three dollars in this case it could be a little bit smaller, if they wanted to. So. A couple of guidelines for you great, interaction, by the way Paul, you're absolutely welcome appreciate, the question John, appreciate the question as well so. Mitigating, some, of the a liquidity as one gets closer to expiration we're, still 23. Days out on our current position and potential, and the one that we would initiate. All. Right well let's see if we get, a reasonable, credit. This. Time around so. If we look at the 192 50. Get. Our drawing tools here you. Can. Right click and we can do a sell. Vertical. On. The put side here. It's. A 2.50. Cent wide with a fifth. Six T cent credit. Now. Our, previous spread was a $5, wide let's say we expand this out to $5, and see if, there's a credit closer to what we may have had before. So. We can go ahead and take that down to should, be 187 50. Notice. The credits only $1, seven. This time versus about a buck 50 the last time. If you confirm and send you, can see your maximum. Profit, which. Is the credit received maximum, loss. Which. Is the spread of five, dollars in this example - the. Credit of a, buck seven. Translates. Into potential. Loss of 393. Remember. There's also commissions, and. Transaction. Fees. Which. Are part of the trade taking. In consideration and. If. You want, to rig, EUR out the return on risk. We. Take the maximum. Profit. Divided. By. The maximum loss and. Bring. Up the calculator, to do that let's. Go ahead and edit that. Believe. It was 107. /. 93. Or 393. That. Comes out to be about 27% return, on risk now, we're using some examples, in our previous some. Of our previous trades, on short, verticals, closer. To 30% so, this may fall just, a little, below. That. Now. No actually brings something that I noticed, when he looked, at the confirm. And send trade. That. There's another helpful. Bit of information called, the break-even. The. Breakeven. Assumes. By. Holding this position through expiration. That. The. Stock needs to be above, 190. 144. To. Break-even now. That does not incorporate the, Commission's and transaction. Fees or. Assignment, fees if that, happens to occur. But. Theoretically to. Your question know the break-even price you, want the price to be actually. In this example above. This, is a bullish. Trade. April. Put spread so, therefore you want the price to be above, a great, way of visualizing, this once. Again folks thanks for the interaction, hopefully. Everyone's learning some new here today as. We look, at the chart. You. Know the 190 250 and I'll. Just go ahead and draw, one. At around 190. Just as an example of a well. I'll do one ninety seven, and a half kind of similar to the previous one. Try. And edit that one. Ninety. Seven, fifty. So. On a short, up, as I. Was. One. Eighty seven fifty. There. You go, so. Here's a five-dollar, widespread. On the chart in. Constructing. A short, put vertical again. Discussed, in the course as well, as the webcast. From. Previous weeks. One. Would want the price to stay outside of. That, spread that's, why we constructed, it below support, and, incorporating.
Some Of the probabilities, the. Price stays, outside. Of that spread that. Credit. Would. Realize, a maximum, gain -. Ain't transaction, fees if one, was to close it out upwards, the closest, closer, to that expiration. Now. If it was a call spread, and. I think we may have an example of that here. Now. What we'll do is we'll hold off on the example. The Federal Express as, far as return on risk compared. To the last time we did it was, significantly. Less. I, think. Our previous return on risk if. We got a buck fifty. One. Point five divided. By, three. Dollars and fifty, cents was. Closer about 42%, now. That. Is not necessarily, going to always be, the. Return, that traders, may see you may have to work a little bit harder to find those. But. That was probably taking advantage of volatility actually, being higher at the time. So. Let's go ahead and go back see. If I have an example of a. A. Bear. Call spread I think we had actually, closed. That. Out the other examples, we have in here I believe are more. Let's. See. Yeah. These are examples, of actually, some. Long-haul, spreads that we'll talk about in a moment, but. In the case of a short, call spread. Which. Is bearish, one's, looking to construct, that above. The. Price levels. Ideally. Above. Resistance. And, just. Like in the case of the. Short. Put spread. Traders. Would not want the price to go into that spread if. It stays out of the spread maximum. Game that, goes a little bit into the spread maybe. A partial, gain maybe. A break-even if it, trades through, the spread. Maximum. Loss. Same. Thing short, put, spread want, it to stay out of the spread it. Stays above it potentially. Maximum gain if, it trades slightly. Into the spread. Possibly. A small, gain or a break-even or, a small loss the. Traits through the spread a. Maximum. Loss now. One note is when prices trade just. Into that spread there's. Always a risk of assignment. On that, short strike and that's, part of our considerations. On long. And, short. On, well. Should say on in any short, position, there is that. So. Try and clear, this out a little. Boo-boo there so you can fix that there. Is, is. The, investor willing what. Mouths. Got a little touchy here is. Is. The investor willing to allow assignment. Vertical trades have a short option component, and are, subject, to that assignment risk so, if the price trades into that spread, on a short, vertical, one. May potentially, have. To take possession of a stock whether. Long or short now. One can always close. Out that, stock position, as soon as they're assigned but. That is something that can have happen, now, it's likely to happen if the price trades entirely, through. The spread. Then. One. May be able to exercise, the.
Long. Option, to settle the obligation, on this short one and that's one of the attractions with. This strategies, types of strategies in the first place because they are defined, risk, each, and every trade that we did was, a practice, trade was, an example of defined risk on risk in, a certain amount of our, portfolio, lot, of our examples is only about a half a percent, for. For illustrative, purposes some. Traders may risk 1%, 2%. Think. About the. Amount you're willing to risk in a trade and. Recognizing. That there is a maximum, loss as well, as a maximum, gain associated, with it all. Right now. So. Okay. So once again in case of the Federal. Express example. Well. Keep monitoring this one maybe closing this out pretty. Shortly if the, objective, was looking for at least an 80 percent return, on risk, so, that may occur as early as tomorrow if, the prices are trading higher and certainly. With the passage of time. Let's. See we have Nike Nike. Is. A, another, example of a. Bull. Put, spread you. Look at the trade price the. One that was sold was a buck six we. Sold. A buck six and bought 54 so that should have been a net, of about. A dollar - this. Was a two and a half dollar. Y-you, can see the current P&L on it this, one's also pretty close to 80% let's. Say for our purposes. Here we'll. Right-click create. A close and order you. Know we sold about. 50, some sense can, potentially buy a back for, 11, cents that would be about. 80% of that maximum gain we, can click on that. Do. Confirm and send, and. Close. That out keep in mind there's commissions. $27.95. In this example now, some traders may say you know what a Nike will probably stay above that. 80. Above. That 82, above. That let's. See yeah. Above that 8250. You. Know no worries. But. Just as prices, can go higher they can come down so. Be conscious about define. That, risk their. Price. Is still a good way away from there but, we can also see how prices can drop. Considerably. In, a, short period of time so. Going, back and looking at that, with. 23, days the, other consideration, is.
There's. Still 23, days left and yet, we're. Already at 80%, on maximum gain are, you willing to wait, another, 23. Days to capture, that extra, 20%. Some. Traders would say no. One. Can go ahead and close out the position frees up equity go ahead and find another, potential. Spread to do so, we'll go ahead we'll close that out we'll, send that through. So. So far some desired outcomes on. So. Far with Federal Express and. Also. With. The. One we just did which is Nike. Another. One, still. Going along Boston. Scientific now. This was a notice. Of put spread but. Is it a bull. Put spread or, a bear. Puts. One. Consideration is looking at it was it a credit, or a debit. Notice. On this example, we. Sold, 69. Cents, but. We bought a buck 38, that. Is a net, debit. That's. A net debit as. My math is depreciating. As we continue, on this day our journey together a buck, 38, -. 69. Cents. Let's. Try that one more time. Buck. 39. -. 69. 70. Cents it was a 70, cent debit, so. This was a barefoot, spread now. This turns things around a little bit the. Debit is the most that can be lost on the trade which was 70. Cents. This. Is a $2 why the. Spread, -. The. Debit, is a. Buck 30 that, is the maximum gain so, this was almost a, two-for-one. Type. Trade. It's. Bearish, because it's more directional. And as, I was mentioning on. Some of the chat, when we talked about the spread. The. Short strikes. Or. Saying on a short spread one, would want the, price to stay outside of, those, spreads and let them expire worthless in this, example, we. Were looking for prices, to trade through. The spread on a long, spread, if we're. Actually. Selling. Or should say buying it at the money option, and then. Sell in a cheaper. Strike that, is below in this example the current price we. Were looking for price to trade through that spread and that's, what we've had and that's. Why this position is. Relatively. Profitable, we're also after earnings, so, probably some depreciation. There as far as volatility. Benefit. In this position, as well. Now. As we go ahead how many days are left on this trade. There's. Still 23, days 23. Days and. Look. At our P&L in this one this is at a hundred fifteen percent, now typically the target, on a long, vertical one. May be seeing. That a maximum, gain may be sixty. Eighty over a hundred, percent return. On risk. Some. Traders may have a target, in mind 50, percent 60, percent 80 percent so. This one has made certainly. A. Major. Gain there if I create the close in order. We. Can potentially sell, it for a buck forty eight locking. In the game however. It's a two dollar wide which means there's about fifty cents left, if. The. Price was to stay. Below. The. 36. Strike. Now. Again we. Want to lock in the gain we can do that we, can do a right click create. Close an order and buy. Back that spread. Now. We're a swing training class which we did on Tuesday we actually did, a long. Put, just. Purely directional, and certainly. Have done well, in that one as well okay. Now, everything. Can't go, as planned or as. Expected, and so. Let's finish off look at some other ones here. Goldman. Sachs, this. Was an example the. The. Next to that we have here which, is IBM, and. Goldman. Sachs are both call, spreads. We. Had. Bought. A more, expensive option, and sold. A cheaper, one and similar. To the long, put, spread the. Strike that we sold was. Kind, of an expected, target. The expectation. Is the price would trade through, that, short strike, so. In this case on IBM targeting 145 in the, case of Goldman. Sachs targeting. 210, now. It's going to look at the charts on these two. IBM. Unfortunately. On. IBM. And, this. Is one of the risk as far as with earnings. We. Went into an earnings event. We were actually, at. That. Higher strike. However. The price went ahead and actually dropped after earnings now it's claw on its way back, so.
For This one to be profitable. The. Price has to be trading, higher, ideally. Getting, back above, 145. Now there's 23 days left on, this one so. We certainly have some time on it, but. Once again this is also a good illustration of, defined, risk. IBM. Went ahead and dropped. Basically. About 4%, now, to retrace the lid down about 3%, doesn't. Matter how much IBM. Drops, the. Most. That. One would be able to lose on this example, as we look at the trade price, we. Bought. 660. Sold, 370. That. Should equate out to being about let's, see. Two. Dollars and. $2.90. Believe. We've. W about two dollars and ninety. Cents. The. Most that could be losing on the trade would be two dollars and ninety cents per share times. 500. Which. I believe when we did this trade was. An example of, about. A half a percent of the account somewhere close around thirteen fourteen, hundred dollars, now. Paul says can you buy back the short strike and lit the long expire, uh. In, a, short. Vertical. Spread. That. Is one, of the options as. The. As. The. Price gets, to. More. Depreciation, if the, short strike gets down to a nickel, one. Can buy back the short strike commission free at. Least on TD Ameritrade and then. May just let the long one expire. Worthless, however. That being said, if. One is closing out well. Before. There. Still may be premium, to, be had in that long option, so, one would certainly, want to get that premium back. Also. Keep in mind, that if one unwinds. The vertical, that define risk may. End up, going away but. Yes as far, as on a short. Vertical, by, buying back that short vertical would, reduce potentially. Reduce will reduce the obligation. But. If there's still equity, left in the long, put. Then one may consider closing out together and saving on some of those fees good, question. All. Right let's look at Goldman Sachs and looks like we have to wrap up gosh the time goes by, I'm. Glad we're able to take a deeper dive they're more importantly, really. Appreciate, the questions, that, we have here today because. It means that you're learning something and hopefully, applying, this as well so, as we look at Goldman Sachs. Goldman. Sachs we're looking at this on a break out in the financials, financials. Have lagged a bit interest. Rates are kind of creeping up doesn't. Exactly help some. Of these financials, and the, price is kind of settling back a little bit so, there needs to be some momentum, for the trade up through that to, oh ten. To ten area which, is where that potential target is now. There's still 23, days left on this one so, we still have some time. Now. Let's go and finish off with a question here I'm going to push a survey, out to you folks go. Ahead and click on that link right now as we, wrap things up would certainly love to hear from you John appreciate.
The Feedback, we. Have a question from. Darrell. Who, asks. When. Is the best time to closing out the position, if the trade is going against, you well. If you follow along on some of our previous, sessions, and this, is particularly on the short, ones on the short verticals, is. And. Even on the long ones we've defined our risk when, we entered the trade we, define our worst-case scenario, we're using examples about a half a percent so. It doesn't matter how bad things may get that. Was the maximum risk and a risk that one may be willing to take, so. We focused more on managing. The wynant, rates now. That being said from a profit, management, standpoint, having. Certain targets, in mind to lock in those gain goes along with that sense now. As far as cutting a loss on a vertical. One. May do that, however. If one closes, out a wood. Maybe a losing position well. Before the expiration, one, is not necessarily, given these statistical, probabilities, of that time for, the price to, move in a favorable direction, your, results may vary with, that a. Consideration. Is maybe, if you're doing a long vertical or have. A reasonable, debit you know you can set you, know whether it's 50 percent or a certain percentage, if you're looking to preserve capital, but. Those. Are just some examples for you we've, used our examples, that risk was defined, before the trade was placed all. Right now, I know he went over a little time on that but that's probably an important, thing to address there, hopefully. Darryl we, can see you again each and every week now remember Cameron May will, be covering for us next, week and I'll. Probably see in about another three weeks appreciate. Your support as always now remember, folks as, always. The. Examples, we went over today were for illustrative, purposes and, not, a recommendation, to, buy or sell any. Security. Any. Investment, decision you make in your self-directed account, is solely. Your, responsibility. So. Again we'll catch up with you again folks coming, up we. Have been. Or, not that Bend James Boyd bookended. Between James James is gonna do directional, option, strategies, coming, right up stay, tuned thanks, everyone.