Trading a Smaller Account | Barbara Armstrong | 4-9-21 | Comparing & Contrasting Strategies
huh all right well welcome this is trading a smaller account it is friday april 9th another week has flown by and i am so glad to see all of the usual suspects here joining me this afternoon along with some new people so if you were brand new to this i would like to welcome you if you are a returning veteran i'd like to welcome you as well i can see we've got neil and john and alex and michael and abu and uh south jordan coming in from florida we have a south jordan city here in utah so that kind of makes me smile and scott and saber tom and and vijay um and the rest of the gang so know that when you join a webcast with td ameritrade you aren't just joining a one-way street me talking to you but you're also joining a community of like-minded people who are all here linking arms you know committed to figuring this out together and you'll notice in the chat if you're able to be participating with us live that you know people in the chat will try and help one another out when things get busy if there's a question that's posed that someone else can answer quickly often some of our seasoned veterans will you know chip in and and help me out and i know that i will have someone joining here in the chat it is mike today so please welcome mike mike if you could type in your twitter handle um we are going to um roll our intro reel just to wake everybody up because it tends to be so loud and then um we'll come back we've got lots of great stuff to cover today all right so um my twitter handle as you can see above at b armstrong underscore tda i've started posting a series on um i've started posting a series on twitter and we can just go out and have a quick look i don't know how many of you are already following me and have seen it um but it's okay this one is just something on uh applied materials or amat um but i'm pointing out uh technical patterns and so monday we'll do double bottoms there are a lot of double bottoms setting up on the charts but you know earlier this week we talked about bullish engulfing patterns and you can see i posted a little you know explanation of what a bowling and gulch engulfing pattern is if you're newer to technical analysis and then we gave some examples so this pattern was setting up on simon property group we also saw it setting up on pwr which is quanta services actually that's a stock i thought we would look at today maybe a short put vertical and then starbucks so if you're newer to technical analysis um this can be just kind of handy yeah double bottoms you know i i think vj if you were with me the other day i just watched a documentary on queen and i just every time i saw a double bottom i'm thinking fat bottom girls that great song so so anyway lots of news you can use out here if you're not following mike fairborne and i you're doing yourself a disservice i also post at the end of every day kind of who the leaders were and the laggards on the nasdaq and the s p and what do you know we've got technology back up leading the pack once again so i guess not a big surprise there the other one that we we looked at this week was piercing line and kaholz and and you know sometimes when you look at these you're going oh well this is on allstate and you know this stock looks pretty strong which you know isn't surprising after you've seen something like a piercing line um this is something that recently ipo'd it's a gaming stock that all the tweens are apparently talking about myself not being between i know shocker i have not been on this site but it's apparently um considered to be a pretty big deal by those that play so um anyway that's that i don't usually bring you guys out here but um i'm just getting a lot of good feedback on this and so i wanted to be sure you were aware of it so let's get through our important information and we can get right down to business because as usual we have 45 minutes in this class and we always are trying to it feels to me like we're trying to pack 10 pounds worth of stuff into a 5 pound bag so i can see that kevin is new to this session thank you for joining us and i hope you find it uh helpful options we trade a lot of options in this class and this is an intermediate level class so i'm going to cover i typically cover at multiple trading strategies in this class if you're not familiar with it please type something into the chat and let me know and i can take 30 seconds and give you a quick and dirty i can also then post or point you to the getting started with options classes that are taught um at 11 o'clock eastern every friday and and most of the strategies we look at in this class i i teach an entire half hour you know in a rotation on that class throughout throughout the year so i can po point you to one of those okay so but know that options not suitable for all investors as there are special risk inherent to options trading that may expose investors to potentially rapid and substantial losses also know if you're new to td ameritrade you do have to apply for option trading privileges in your live account we also in order to demonstrate the concepts and the functionality of the platform we need to use actual symbols we use lots of them in this class but that isn't to be construed as a recommendation it is simply a way of discussing concepts and showing you how to apply those on the platform so any investment decision you make in your live account that is on you my friends and know that all investing involves risk including the risk of loss and we are pretty upfront about talking about both the winners and the losers in this class so what are we teeing up today well we're going to look at the market forecast as we always do and i thought it would be interesting and we've done this before but i thought we'd compare and contrast some different strategies today and specifically i thought we could look at a long call a long call vertical and a short put vertical all on the same stock and i thought our our i don't want to say victim i thought our opportunity today um could be apple because apple's had a nice pullback and you know we'll look at the charts on that so welcome to beatrice also a newbie great to have you here so we're going to place a bunch of example trades and then we're going to spend a few minutes re reviewing our current positions so that is actually quite a lineup so let's get out and get after it so on the s p 500 and for those that are new we're assuming in this class um we're assuming in this class that we have a 20 000 account and that we our maximum risk per trade is four hundred dollars which is two percent so let me just write this down so we started the year with twenty thousand that's our we're assuming is our account size our max risk is 400 on any one trade and our max position size is 5 000 and you might say 5 000 are you crazy that's 25 of your account well we wanted to be able to do things like um buy right covered calls and so with a buy right covered call we're buying the stock selling the covered call at the same time so that allows us to do that with a stock up to five thousand dollars in value so there's our position size max position size five thousand but even saying even though you were investing 5 000 we need to put something in place to ensure our max loss isn't more than 400 so someone's saying i'm new so i'd appreciate the guidance to the courses to take on thinkorswim we actually have two classes taught on thinkorswim one is taught by the illustrious mike fairborne who is here helping us in the chat today that's thursday at five o'clock eastern there's a second one which is a little more advanced that is taught on mondays at five i think it's 5 30 eastern by connie hill and so you've got those two choices and then i usually post on twitter two or three times a week little tips and techniques that you can use that make working with thinkorswim easier the other thing that you can do if you're new to options in general there's a course and i'll show you how to access that course and then the other thing i'd recommend is getting started with options it's a webcast on friday mornings so if you come over to the education tab and you click on that and then we come over to options so if you're new to all of this and you're thinking oh trading a smaller account you know that would be a good place to start what i would do is go through this course trading options and the other thing that i would recommend along with that you know and these courses are very interactive so there's little quizzes there's videos you know so um i think they're really well done so if you come over here stocks technical analysis which is about support and you know resistance and the basics on technical analysis you may say well just a minute i'm just going to trade options well yeah you may just be trading options but you're trading options on a stock or on an index or on an etf you're trading an option on something so it behooves us to understand the stocks that we're trading on and we don't just look at the charts in this class often we'll go and we'll look at the fundamentals because if we're buying something you know that we could end up owning or we're using a strategy where we could end up owning the stock we want to be sure that it's a stock that we want to own so and if you're here for the first time and you're typically watching the archive sessions welcome aboard we're delighted that you're here with us live and able to participate in the chat so i would do that and then webcasts you can either access them from here or you can just go to trader talks on youtube so um by the way i've had lots of people say like this whole trading journal thing how do i find that again so here's our upcoming webcast here's today's class and it right here you see this trading journal this is a live link you click on that and it will upload the trading journal yeah you know what rick there's a question saying these courses have points given what are the points for they have not ever assigned anything to the points yeah because i'm very much one of those like i'm a skier so like i love when i go to the hill it'll track like how many runs i've done how many vertical feet i've skied both that day and for the season so i love that kind of not gamification but yeah there aren't any points assigned to it sadly okay so with the archived webcast i teach the getting started with options and so if you pick as a topic getting started it it will take you through so today we talked about long calls um last week we did an overview of the basics and you can go through we cover about 12 different trading strategies yeah okay so that's how you get to that so that kind of answers that one okay so we were on the charts and when we look at the spx and specifically what we want to look at with respect to the market forecast is this green line and the idea is if this line is above the 80 and here's our 80 line right here this red line or if it's up trending between the 20 and the 80 then we have given ourselves permission to place bullish trades now do we look at this stock by stock no we're just looking at the spx as a benchmark for the entire market there could still be some sectors that are not performing well like the energy sector has in fact been down the last 30 days although it's still one of the leading sectors for the last you guys are making me laugh tom saber is saying he's willing to sell his points from td ameritrade cheap yeah okay so with the spx we're good to go we can see that once again i mean the last three days or four out of the last five days the s p 500 has hit a new all-time high and when we come to the nasdaq which has been somewhat in the dog house we can see that it too it's not at a new all-time high which was 13 879 but it's within striking distance if you had a good arm you could throw and hit it you know and when we look at this also some of the technicians in the crowd might be saying i kind of see a bit of a double bottom like a diagonal double bottom and it's breaking above that so you know some might see that and some might say ah i don't know you may you know ice technical analysis is like a bit of a complex rorschach test right like other people might be looking at this and saying hey i see a diagonal resistance breakout and you know it came back and if you were waiting for it to pull back we got like a one day here and it's it's really taken off but either way you look at it um it's bullish and then if we come and we look at the dow jones do you sorry dj x it too hit a new all-time high so the last of the major indices is the small caps or the russell it's been consolidating a little but i mean over since november it's been totally crushing it it has far in a way been the leading index so small caps have been doing really well and after a big run up like we've seen and this is on a six-month chart so if i come over here and we look at show price as a percentage we can see that this index in the last six months you know it's up 36 at one point it was up as much as 44 almost 45 so um you know the net of it is bullish bullish bullish and when we look at the volatility index and let's go out to a year i mean this is the lowest we have seen in recent memory now if we look at a five-year chart it's kind of you know more in range with the average over the last five years 16 would have been considered kind of a bit of a spike if we were looking at you know we were back in you know the 2017 time frame for example or you know it would have been more in the middle of the pack in 2019 but you know compared to what we've seen since february of 2020 this is as low as it's gotten so what does that mean it means there's a lot of confidence in the market and the fear level is low but sometimes this is when people can get a little cocky so it doesn't mean that we need to be less disciplined it doesn't mean that we should be less disciplined okay so i'm going to go back to our study set that includes now the macd and and one of the main reasons that we like to include the macd and sometimes we'll throw in average true range or um relative strength or another indicator is that there are occasions when we can see a divergence and then that can help um provide some additional information in our decision making process so i wanted to come and look at apple i could type in the ticker symbol that would be handy and you know over a five year chart i mean and this has had a four to one split like 22 37 the equivalent of five years ago up to 145 so anybody would like that would like to argue that this is has not been an uptrending stock for the majority of the last five years uh yeah you wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on but we when we come in and look a little more up close and personal the last six months well that's a different story so you know it hit a high back here in january of that at 1 45 then we saw it starting to pull back and you know even though you know it had a strong earnings report as apple always does it cracks me up that nine times out of ten the market just doesn't respond in a super positive way out of the gate um but you know the forward earnings was i guess a little you know the forward-looking information was a little less stellar but what we saw was this pullback right and again you say tomato i say tomato we have this pullback or this diagonal line it broke above and this is one of the ones i used as an example of a kahold but you know so we had a low here on this day on march 30th let me just get out my drawing tool and then we had a cold the next day but it was still below the 30-day moving average and then when we come and look at it on this day you could say okay well now we're on the other side of the moving average and when you have a green candle like we have here or like we have here it means it opened higher closed lower but still closed above the high of the previous day so when we look at this it's like well if you were waiting for it to cross the river and come back and test the ice it kind of did that in one big jump and then moved up so some might say well we missed our entry because you know this might have been our entry day but unfortunately we didn't get to meet that day and we haven't actually met in this class for two weeks the others though might look at this and say okay well remember your fat bottom girl or your double bottom well here it is and if we're looking for a breakout and again you know some might if you're looking at the middle you know we might have said well pretty much it would have been yesterday and so the idea with a double bottom is if we come here and we say okay we're going to have to get rid of this and change our drawing tool or change our percentage if we say you know at the bottom here dang it i'm trying to move too quickly so if here was our bottom and here's our top you know we say that's a 12 or well maybe we're expecting one might expect about a twelve dollar move someone else might look at this and say well you know what i think it could rally and there are some potential resistance levels along the way but i could see it going back up to this one forty five level does that make sense uh the stochastic with breakout signals yes i have that script posted at the top of my twitter feed uh oh yes i believe that's posted at the top of my twitter feed you should be able to find it there so if we duplicate this and bring it over that would say okay we're expecting you know a move to maybe 141 and right now we're at 132 and someone else might say okay i'm expecting it to go back up to the previous high but both of them would say okay we're in the same kind of neighborhood right so how might we trade this well if we're feeling a little more neutral one might say okay well what if i sold a short put vertical below that like you know 128 level you know it's now trading at 131 what if i sold the the 128 and the 126. so this 20k account you can assume so here we are here we can assume that i reset this at the beginning of the year so we're going to come to the trade tab and you can assume it's an ira account or you can assume it's a regular cash account you know however you want to do it but if we come here and we say okay we want to come out about three weeks or 21 days if we look at this 128 strike do we have volume and open interest we sure do over 4 000 contracts on this i mean apple is very very heavily traded 78 million shares today we've got a delta of 33 which means we've got a 70 67 chance that this would expire worthless so if we right click go to cell vertical and make it a two dollar wide spread what's the most we can make on this 62 dollars a contract what are we risking a dollar 38 so if we come here and we say okay 62 divided by a dollar 38 that gives us about a 44 return on a 21 on something expiring in 21 days so if we wanted to get um you know at least one percent today or a minimum of 20 to 25 percent we've certainly got that in spades and so we we have a couple of things we could do we could go out a little further and look at the 126 124 or we could say you know what this looks good to me and if i'm willing to risk up to 400 on a trade we could do two of these so we're gonna change our quantity to two we're gonna put in an exit for this and say you know what when we've got eighty percent of our max gain we are going to exit this trade so first trigger sequence right click anywhere on this create an opposite order say you know when this is worth 12 cents i'd like to take my risk off the table and shut it down now we'll look at this and when we get you know a week out so the week before expiration if we aren't where we want to be likely we'll shut this down as well so confirm and send and how much are we risking we're risking 278 dollars how much can we make 122. so i'm going to write that down so on our short vertical we can make 122 and we're risking 278 okay and we're going to put that in with our short put verticals now if you're bullish on this and you're thinking well whether it goes to 141 or 1 you know 44 i do think it's going to move to the upside maybe we could do a long call vertical and we could look at you know this 132 strike you know if we just went out to april uh 23rd or april 30th and say okay well if i did this 132 i'm fairly confident it will go through 134 would there be enough in that for that to be worth it for me and so thomas is asking if you could place an exit if the trade went against you and you can do that we we could set that up as well so but with this one we are going to look at well if i looked at the 132 which is basically where it's trading now and then said i want to buy a vertical so this is a long call vertical now can we make more on this trade yes we can but what is the gotcha well the gotcha is that it has to move and it has to move to the upside in the next 21 days in the next three weeks it has to move up and how much does it have to move up by almost two dollars a dollar eighty-four to get our max gain because it's at 3214 and we would see our max gain if it went through 134 so what are we paying for this 90 what is the most we can make is the difference between the strikes less what we paid to get in and so if we look at our potential return on this when we say okay we can make a dollar seven oops clear that a dollar seven and i'm going to divide that by 90 well we're going to divide it by 93. the things keep changing so that's a 115 return versus the 40 and so some might be saying well why would i ever do a short put vertical then so let's talk about that for just a sec oh you know mark i meant to do the april 21st only going out to two weeks did the other one fill it hasn't filled so let's go cancel that thank you for bringing that up i'm going to come here we're going to cancel and replace it and we are going to make this i looked at earnings and i just looked at my sheet and i thought april 23rd well what's the big difference so we're going to go to april 23rd and we're going to unlock this so now we're looking at a 37 cent credit and when when we look at that you know we're only in this for two weeks now when i looked at this a little earlier it was 43 cents so the stock has continued to move up so some might say so we would be because we want to be out of this before earnings so some people will look at a stock like apple or anything else and when they're doing a short put vertical their deal with that is i'm not trading a short put vertical strategy over earnings why don't they want to trade it over earnings because stocks can gap they can gap up or gap down and and we're trying to stack the deck in our favor and like base hit base hit base hit with a short put vertical so it and nickel may not seem like a lot but it's about 15 of this credit value right like at 40 cents you know 10 4 cents would be 10 so we might look at that and say okay i'm only in this for two weeks but if i'm if i can only make 38 cents and then i'm dividing that by a dollar 62 that's a 23 return potentially for a trade you'd be in for 14 days so if you're okay with that then you could go ahead and place this trade and you know we're still risking an amount that we're okay to risk and you might say okay if i'm only going to be in this for a short period of time then i'm going to change my exit on this and i'm going to get out when it's worth 4 cents you know that's my goal to create an opposite order and say you know i want 90 so when that's worth 4 cents i would exit that position so mark you win the award for today thank you for catching that okay so let me just make sure okay and we are going to cancel that okay so there's that one teed up so let's go back to the long call vertical and we're going to look at so and with this one you can look at it one of two ways you can say you know what i'm willing on a long call vertical to go out a little longer in time and i realize that it's over earnings but i'm willing to you know be in it for a longer period of time so with that one we could come out to may 21st and that gives us some you know some recovery time you know we're not doing this the day after earning so if we came out to may 21st and we said okay and notice like these numbers are going to be higher because they've got more time value in them so and of course the stock has continued to go up well we've had this conversation i think it was at 130 91 when we started so obviously the stock seems to be moving to the upside today but so if we looked at the 130 and the 135 you know so we're going to buy the 130 and then sell the 135 so if we looked at that and so this is a buying strategy we're not getting paid to get in we are paying so this is about you know a 50 50. so it's
costing us 240 to get in what's the most we can make is two dollars and sixty cents so you know it's over a hundred percent if we take 260 divided by 240 and this is you know some is a rule of thumb say i want it to be at least a one to one return if i'm risking a buck i want to be able to make a buck so this is potentially you know 108 return and so let's t that up and just see how it goes and then some might say hey you know what if i get to the point where this is worth like four dollars or four ten like i've made a really good return on this and i'm going to exit but we'll watch it and we'll discuss this as we go through because we do discuss our trades as we go along and so this one it is over earnings but we've got because earnings is the 30th or sorry the 28th we've got you know several weeks so what's the most we can make 262 most we can lose 238 how many contracts can we do one because we can't exceed that 400. so we're going to put that in with our long call verticals and then the third one i wanted to discuss was doing a call and if we come out to me and if we said okay like when this pulled back this was you know about a three-week pull back here from where it crossed well here oh and then it started going sideways so that was about you know 29 days so but it looks like the recovery is moving fairly quickly so how long might we expect this to take well if we expected it to take you know 20 to 30 days and we went out 40 some that would give us a bit of wiggle room you have to keep in mind that with a long call time is not on our side time is going to start chipping away at this so when we look at this we have to keep our mid management rules intact so if we looked at this and said okay if this goes if we bought a long call if it goes one percent below this support level here around that 128 68 we're going to get out so if we look at this 128 68 and take it times 0.99 if it hits 127 51 we are going to exit so that's going to be our stop because we don't want to fool around if it doesn't go according to plan then we would like to exit and then what we might do here is say you know what i think it's going to go up to the previous high at this you know that was the top of a wick but if we look at the top of the bodies that was around say 144 and then we'll put in an alert at 141. so we'll come up here around this 141 mark and create an alert and so if this goes at or above apple close to target should we either move up our stop or take our profit this is a no from you to you so you know you can put any you know estimate in there that any any comment to yourself that you like so we're going to put that alert in and then we're going to put a target in of 144.
target so if we come out to our trade tab and we say okay if we're looking at may now we could come out a little further and come out to june but as you can see the further out we go time has a value right and we'd have to pay for that and while time is worth paying for you know if we look at this and we said you know if we put in a stop at 50 there's no guarantee that we'll get out we really don't want to risk 600 so maybe we want to look at the 135 strike which means it has to go up we've got a 40 44 probability this will be in the money by at least a penny that doesn't mean it'll be profitable this would actually have to go up to 139 to be profitable and our target is 144. you know now the faster it goes up the more opportunity we have to exit with a lot of the time value still intact so but whenever we're long something we have to keep in mind that time is working against us so the advantage if we wanted to look at something that wasn't you know that that gave us dollar increments we could come in here and look at this 132 which has a delta of 50 so we have a 50 50 chance and we could you know do this 133 call so and you know we've still got only a 10 cent spread you know because there are hundreds of contracts being traded so we're going to look at actually the may 14th and we'll do the 133 call and we'll put in an exit to say hey you know if this gets to the point where it's worth half of the value we're paying for it then we'd like to exit so we're going to put in a buy with an oco bracket actually we were originally sorry we were putting in a stop so our target actually i'm going to do this a little differently so when you're buying a stock and you're doing this this is the easiest way to do it if we do it this way and just say we want to buy so we're going to buy a single and then if i come down here to first trigger sequence and right click and create an opposite order if i put it in as a market order good till cancelled and then come over and hit the sprocket we can put in both our target so when apple goes at or above 144 we want to exit and if it goes at or below there we go if it goes at or below 127 51 if the stock hits that we don't know exactly what the option value will be and it will it would be it would depend on when it hit that so if it hits it monday it will be less painful than if it kind of goes sideways and then drops into the abyss so one of the things that we want to take into account in setting this oops that didn't hold see this zeroed back out 127 51 okay there we go now we have both of these numbers in now last year one of the things i'll say is probably our least profitable trading strategy was a long call and why was that it's because it has to move up and it has to move up in the time frame you're expecting you know with a short put you know if it lollygags about time is still chipping away and as long as it doesn't go below your strike you know you're good to go but we want to buy one of the may 14th 133 calls at 470 and we want to exit when it hits our target at 144 or if the stock falls and goes below 127.51 we want to exit our max profit sky's the limit our max loss not taking the stop into account would be 470.
so we're going to put that into our long call bucket now we have just a couple of minutes um and here's one i'll put on at the end but if we look at a short put vertical we've got power here quanta services which has been up trending really nicely trading at 93 and if we came and we looked at a short put vertical we'd have to look at the maze um so i encourage you to do that you know on your own so the reason we're using the stock price and not the option price is that we don't know exactly what that option price is going to be so that's why we're using the stock price but you can do it either way you could put in a stop loss for example and say hey if this thing loses half its value we want out and next week we'll talk about mid management strategies which can include not only if it hits the target or the stop but as i explained in getting started with options today you know you also want to you know look at if it goes down two days in a row exit the trade or if it doesn't get half the distance in half the time you're expecting so if you're expecting it to move in 20 trading days you know 15 and if in 10 trading days it hasn't moved at least seven it's lollygagging about and theta is going to eat our lunch or time decay is going to eat our lunch so then we'd want to exit the trade okay um hold on okay so on our trades there were a couple of things i wanted to do and one was let me just pull it up because i took some notes so abr so we're down a whopping 13.50 this is a real estate stock we just wanted to um make sure our stop was in place and it's basically in the right neighborhood if we're getting really technical we might move that up 20 cents or so with devon this is an energy stock so you can see i put this in this sector we had a buy right on it we're down well it was 180 when i last looked at it but it's we're down about 200 we did make 70 on the call that we sold but that call um you know we closed out and devon when we look at the chart and when we look at the energy sector the energy sector over the last month is down seven percent it's not heading in the right direction so we're just going to what do you think do we stay or do we go so i vote we go go ahead and type your vote into the chat and then with nilsson we had an exit on this but our april 27th call our april 21st 27 call expires in seven days so we want to exit that um because we've got 90 of our max gain so we're going to come into nielsen and in order to exit we've got to get rid of this position that we already had so we're going to cancel our exit on that or our stop loss and then we're going to come back and we're going to buy that call back now nielsen is part of the industrial sector it does the nielsen ratings so we're going to create a closing order to sell that call for 10 cents okay so we've done that and then if we put a new stop on nielsen if we look at the chart on nielsen we can see that you know nicely up trending stock but it's bouncing kind of off it's kind of hugging this 30-day moving average so what if we wanted to sell another call on this we might prefer to wait for it to move up so okay so you guys all are in accord go get out get out of it run michael i like that so that's what we're gonna do so with this one we're gonna put a stop three percent below that recent low which will be at 24.12 so and that's a little higher than where the previous stop was we're going to create a closing order with a stop and we're going to look to sell another covered call on that next week so 24-12 good till cancel okay and devin love you but not enough to keep you so it's farewell okay our synthetic on cisco so this is where we have both uh csco so it's been kind of hanging out so we're going to look at this one again i think we've got some time we've got 42 days left on that so we're leaving that here's our short put vertical here um on gm we've got a short put that expires today and you know we would have got out of that last friday had we sold it um you know had we met but we didn't meet because it was uh good friday and the markets were closed so that one we rarely let things expire worthless we usually you know uh buy it back but given that the the value of it is zero would probably be hard to get a fill now psx we pretty much um you know we're at 115 we could lose up to 250 on that that that would be our max loss so we're going to look at psx and this is another one of these you know in the energy sector so on this one we only have seven days to go we don't you know we're not happy that we're in a position where we're looking at a max you know looking at a loss but better a loss of 120 than a loss of two dollars right and so what we're going to do with this is i am going to go in on monday because we've got two more days of time decay and we're going to close that out so yes the psx chart is asking for our attention um and you know if we had meta we had this move a little bit higher so if this support level holds but whatever happens this will close out on monday we have another class starting so we have to wrap this up someone asked about neo we ended up having that put to us we sold a short put so we are going we own that now and we're going to continue to use that one as an example with our long call verticals psx is basically at a max loss so we're just going to leave that we should have exited that a week ago cat we're pretty close to our max gain on that we've got seven days left so on monday i am going to go in and close this one out also so cat is at 2 30 the the stock is trading very close to 2 30. but we've got a nice profit on that and you know it's been kind of hanging out and going sideways so we're going to take our profit on that one as well you know do the example of saying hey we have a nice profit rather a bird sorry bird in the hand oh how did i come over here and so with cat so we have an exit on this but you know we could come here and say okay um we'll at we'll just cancel this and then exit that so you'll see that these will be gone next week and then we just placed apple today and neo we will talk about next week so guys thank you so much for joining me today i really appreciate you all being here i love the camaraderie in the chat um and you know we will continue to watch these three different strategies on the same stock now would you do this in your live account likely not you would pick one but we're going to you know be able to discuss and compare and contrast how these different strategies can work and can benefit us or hurt us differently so guys there is a survey in the chat so here's my ask if you'll take 20 seconds to click on that and provide me with some feedback whether you loved it or didn't love it um you know i really appreciate the feedback and i do incorporate your suggestions so if there's something you'd like to see or see more of type a comment into the chat so next week building blocks for report basic for building blocks for a self-directed portfolio will be based on the comments i got yesterday so it's your chance to provide some input also if you enjoyed this hit the like button if you have a trading partner share this webcast with them and you guys can review it together and um yeah if you haven't subscribed to this channel you'll want to do that and of course don't forget to follow mike fairborne and i on this channel and on twitter and i have to just go through these last disclosures remember all investing involves risk including the risk of loss and that everything we do is for example purposes only so have an amazing weekend guys take care best of success with your trading and i will look forward to seeing you soon bye for now