Trading a Smaller Account | Barbara Armstrong | 2-26-21 |Neutral Trading Strategies-Is That A Thing?
alrighty good afternoon everyone we have made it and it has been quite a week this is trading a smaller account we have so much to discuss today so stick around there's lots of excellent stuff coming your way [Music] all righty as i mentioned just a second ago this is trading a smaller account my name is barbara armstrong i'm a coach with td ameritrade you can see my twitter handle above at b armstrong underscore tda i probably had 10 requests for me to post things on twitter in the getting started with options this morning so it is a place where i'm able to answer questions that sometimes we don't have time for during our regular webcast but if you've got questions hopefully between mike fairborne and i who is and mike is in the chat with us today so we're fortunate to have them we should hopefully have answers for you also you're going to want to follow mike on twitter his handle is m fairborn underscore tda he's posting lots of great content as well and you wouldn't want to miss out i know some people are suffering from social media fatigue let's say where they're on instagram they're on facebook and they just don't want to be on one more platform um i really only use twitter for my investing life it's a way for me to communicate with each and every one of you outside of a webcast like this so you'll want to take advantage of that in any event i want to uh thank all of you who are able to show up live this afternoon and that you continue to come each and every week this we're not supposed to have favorites but this is one of my favorite classes to teach i must say so hello to lupita and alex and daryl and sam and teresa and archiero and jimmy lee and narinder and michael and lyle and many many others it is so great to have you all on board also to the thousands of you that watch this in the archives so glad to have you on board also and if you have questions or if you love something just you can type that in as a comment on youtube if you have a question you can post that also i try and get to those each and every day so uh and yes to mr rocky recruiting we do tend to have a crowd in this class and the um a chat tends to be quite boisterous so um everybody buckle up we have a lot to cover today let's get through our important information so we can get right out to the platform okay so first of all we do a lot of option trading in this class so know that options not suitable for all investors there are special risks inherent two options trading that can pose investors uh to experience rapid and substantial losses as well as rapid and substantial gains we discuss both sides of that every time we place a trade and as we manage those throughout also know all investing involves risk including the risk of loss last thing we use lots of symbols in this class and we are very active we have about 45 minutes together and wow we stuff as much into that 45 minute bag as we possibly can every week but know that even though we have all these symbols on the go none of that is to be construed as a recommendation um you know on the part of td ameritrade or myself any decision you make in your live accounts that is on you my friends i encourage you though to place these trades in your paper money account um you know because it it just helps us learn i found that that made an enormous difference for me when i was starting out so i can give you one piece of advice that would be it practice practice practice practice and i have you know i tend to get up and down off my pedestal a lot i call this class a workout you know as i'm giving advice but know that all investing involves rest if you're here for the very first time so we have wilfred here for the first time and i'm sure several others jason so if this is the first time that you're attending please type a greeting into the chat so we can welcome you as you will quickly find out this is a very interactive community here at td ameritrade we have a lot of people if the chat gets extraordinarily busy that will help each other with ideas and answering questions and i love all of you guys for that so thank you okay so this always looks incredibly similar in fact i think that this is the same as last week and yet it'll be completely different so what do i mean by that well we always go out and we take a look at the market then we look at our current positions like you've got to take care of what you have and understand where you are and then look at you know where you want to go next and then of course we always in each and every class add some new positions to this example portfolio so let's go out and look at the market and of course yesterday i mean chicken little was running around you know the sky is falling the sky is falling um you know and uh there was mayhem everywhere sea of red on both the nasdaq and the s p 500 i'm going to come down here to our market forecast and what this is saying my friends and and here's the idea if you've not seen this before is that when the market forecast line this is the green line and let me just close this when the green line is above the 80 we have permission to take a bullish trade when it is up trending in the 20 to 80 we have permission to take a bullish trade and this is a self-imposed permission right like there's nobody saying call the trading police barb took a trade and it's it's down trending you know um so when it's up trending and when it is above this 80 line we're good to go with bullish trades if it is downtrending we shouldn't be putting new bullish trades on and and i've i've quoted this thing before in fact i have this taped to my desk my friends and this was a fellow student back when i was a client um and okay i'm going to rip this off and and he sent this to me in in an email but he just posted this in the chat and he said when i employed this rule with the market forecast and this is just one client going back over his or her trades um over a period of time was that uh what i found was that if i'd simply use the market forecast as my market posture index indicator and had not entered the trades contrary to the market forecast direction i would have reduced my net losses by 62.5 percent and i would have done 26 fewer trades now that is one client going back over a period of uh you know over of about a year and he was looking at um over 2 almost 300 directional trades and so the idea here is now when i look at the spx when i look up here does this trend still look intact absolutely so i would say the uptrend is still intact but the sentiment here the intermediate term sentiment line is now turning and so if we want to err on the side of caution rather than being extremely bullish we might want to at least do something if it's mildly bullish that it's kind of more neutral a more neutral trade so i want you to think about what a more neutral trade might be because i know we have a lot of experience here in the room what kind of strategy might we use if we want to be you know maybe a little bullish but neutral or bearish but neutral what kind of strategies might those be so if you can think of one go ahead and type it into the chat but that was the spx yesterday and and when we look at this market forecast line by the way guys we do not look at that on a per um stock basis we just look at that on the s p 500 it's like what's the general market doing iron condor ding ding ding ring the bell absolutely an iron condor might be a a trade to consider a short put vertical which is one side of an iron condor or a short call vertical you know like those are all kind of more maybe bullish but neutral or bearish but neutral and when we come and we look at the ndx very similar um although it has you know spent a couple of days more so iron condors yeah selling and we're looking at selling why are we looking at selling well my friends the vix skyrocketed yesterday as the market was falling which is pretty typical and um and today it's come down a little but at 26 i mean that is still pretty high and you know and let me go out for a year you know even within the context of the last year yes we went up to 85 but we're sitting at kind of the top end of this range we have been in since november-ish right or even if i come all the way back here you know this is kind of closer to the top end of the range so that tells us that there's you know there's more premium out there so maybe we want to look at a selling strategy okay so i have a question in the chat and it's an excellent question and it is how much um money uh how you know how much do we put into every trade how much do we risk so what we've said in this class our assumption is we started with 20 000 which we did at the beginning of the year um we were at 23 and change almost 24. we were up over 15 percent as of last friday and we've given some of that back so now we're close to um 22 000 so we're up about 10 percent but we're we started at the beginning of the year with twenty thousand the first friday of the month our max risk per trade is four hundred dollars which is two percent and our max position size is five thousand and you may be looking at that going back the track up that is 25 percent are you crazy but when you have a smaller account size if you want to own stock or if you want to like own some shares in an index or you want to um that do a buy right having this kind of flexibility now as our account grows are we going to bump up that 5 000 no so that because that's 25 of a 20 000 so if the account were to get to 30 000 we might bump up the risk per trade we likely would not bump up that position size because it's kind of pushing the upper boundary to begin with so i hope that answers that question okay so what have we got in the account and what happened last week so the first thing i did is i came to our account statement and i said uh okay what happened in the last seven days since last week because i know that there was a bit of a a bit of a bloodbath even though i told chicken little to go away that the sky is not actually falling yet and there were two stalks that we ended up what the sam hill i don't want anything in there okay so here's how you can see at a glance maybe you were on a cruise ship and you just had everything set on autopilot so we had a position in workhorse we closed it hit our stop and if we wanted to see our order history on workhorse it hit our stop and that position got filled so our stop was at 28.63 that's when the market order was generated we got filled at 27.50
so that's one of those when i say you know you don't always necessarily get what you've asked for for a stop price we got out a dollar lower than we wanted to get out um on that and then with marvel again we had an exit on marvel and it hit our exit and so we got out on marvel now i went ahead and did the math because i know that we don't have a huge amounts of time w khs workhorse uh so when we looked at workhorse and now i'm going to go back to the beginning of the year so we can see everything we've done on workhorse we ended up getting out at a loss on this one so that's part of where you know that that gain that we gave back to the market came from we had sold a buy right with the intention of only being in this for you know 20 or 30 days or however long it was and uh so we got in at and i wrote this down our net price on getting in was the 3472 minus three 31.72 we got out at a net price of 28.65 we were down 300 on that 307 if you want to be specific and on marvel which looks so marvelous when we place the trade and this is what i'm saying like if you don't think you're ever going to have a losing trade think again this is why we are so diligent absolutely diligent about defining our risk because what if this got totally clobbered and went to zero um you know we'd be out five grand that's 25 of our account that is really hard to recover from my friends so if we're going to take a a small a loss take a a smaller loss um and on this one we ended up down 312. so we gave back 600 and uh 19 of our our of our gains in these two positions between marvel and workhouse that closed out so let's go and look at the charts on these just in case you want to feel better so here like i said we got out of workhorse at 28.65 right around here right so you know what happened and we got out at a lower price right so our stop was above that so we got out at the beginning of the trading day and then it continued to hemorrhage and fall and even though it's come back while it's actually trading a little lower now than where it closed on this day because this day it closed at 16 47 it's trading at 1584. we got out my friends at 28.65
so how are you feeling about that 300 loss now much better i presume because at you know another ten dollars lower that could have been another thousand dollar loss which is pretty huge on a twenty thousand dollar account so this is why um some people um are fans of stops and this one now marvel you know we might look at this and say kind of like the nasdaq yes it's broken down um you know but could it come back up absolutely yeah so workhorse there was big news which caused that incredible fall they lost a big contract with the um united states postal service so so in that case our stop loss saved our took us right and on this one we got out at 47.09 and now it's trading a little bit above that and that's where you're going snap diggity that just frosts my petunias and yes it does but you know what if our we bought that as a trend trading growth stock um you know what we we would we enter now it's trading below the 10 day below the 30 day so you know if you are a james boyd fan part of the boy desta organization which i am a proud card carrying member of as well you know this would be considered you know when it's below both of these lines to be winter time right so it could take a while to come back and so some might look at this well it's on sale shouldn't i buy it now well workhorse is on sale too you want to buy that yeah not not so sure um because it could take a ways to come back but might we still be a fan and cheering it on from the sidelines absolutely okay so we've got lots of other positions these are two that aren't even showing and we don't want to spend our our whole time together just on um looking at you know looking back so we have a position on abr this is a mortgage reit we just bought a hundred shares a 16 1700 position we're up modestly on that this thing pays a dividend of almost eight percent um and you know what it's just trucking along doing its thing so we're good to go there um yeah you like frost yeah i have some dorky expressions guys you know we just have to roll with it right it makes it memorable um my kids teased me about that um and fcx which we bought last year which had an extraordinary run um we bought it it came down it's come up it's heading for this support level but hasn't broken below we do have an exit on this position but so far you know we hate seeing these big red candles but it has it broken at you know the 30 day no has it broken this support level no we're going to let that roll along so these are two stocks that we own then we have two more where we bought the stock and we sold a call at the time we bought the stock with the idea of selling the call in the middle of the road with the intention of it getting run over and we talked about that i'll post a couple of the previous classes and um you know we'd look at this 23 call when it was trading at almost 21 so we paid about 20 bucks to get in we can't make any more than three dollars on this which is well two dollars and 80 cents which is just shy of 15 for a trade that we would be in for about 28 days so you know when we come and look at we have two of those by right covered calls one is devin and when we look at devon here's our covered call and here's where the stock is trading and so this has you know like all hell has been breaking loose on the s p and the nasdaq and this has just been kind of rolling along doing its thing so you know it's it's just kind of tickity boo it's fine so we're going to leave that one alone we have exits on these and we have targets and our intention is 21 days from now not to own either one of these stocks and so this one the buy right is at 40 and where is it sitting right now 40 28. so it's just crossed over that line so if it stays above 40 when we exit this how much what might we make well we got in for 36.84 so you know like just to make the math easy for me because it is friday let's say we make about three bucks and a little smidge on that on a 37 investment yes over 10 it's just over 10 for a trade that we would be in for about you know i think we put it on last week so you know about uh a one month trade and so that was the idea you know make a little bit make a little bit make a little bit and by the end of the year it turns into a lot and we're trying to do high probability lower risk trades right okay so we did one of those on a reit in um james boyd's i filled in for his class on monday um we couldn't do that particular stock in this class because it's a little out of our price range but but devon and and um on semiconductor they're both under 50 bucks so this is why we have this position size on 5000.
now we've done two synthetics i want to talk about this one first so what's a synthetic it's where we have both sold the put and bought the call at the same time uh you know what eric that's a really good point so somebody's asking me you know all these indicators that i use would i um you know post them all on twitter and yeah i need to spend i'll do that on monday because i have a little more room in my schedule monday so actually i'm going to come up to the charts and studies and i'll change them the next time we go out there but with exxon we have a 14 100 return we're up 480 dollars we've given back 87 uh dollars of our our our gain so we bought this net net for 34 cents and it's now worth 514. so when we look at so here's what we can do so let's go have a look at this because i think it's important xom so you know it started to pull back yesterday pulled back to the 10-day moving average and and it is now trading higher than where it opened and so some might say this is you know close to the top and yes eric i will pin them to the top um when they go on twitter i'll create a whole new document for that the one thing though on twitter i post a lot of like day-to-day tips on how to use the platform and those you're just gonna have to scroll and sometimes i will repeat them every couple of months i'll repeat them again just because i get asked those questions all the time but yeah that'll pin to the top okay so when we look at exxon here are our choices we can say hey we're up over 400 i know we've given some back but we'd like to bring the cash register and and take our paper money profit and go out and have a great time and do some shopping this weekend and spend her you know buy some paper money items um or we could say you know what i bet we've got the majority of our gain on the short put i'd like to close that and then i'm going to put a stop right below the low on this so if it doesn't bounce on monday we'll get out so we could do that so one is ring the bell take our exit the position all together second is buy back the short put and put an exit on the long call and the other is just let it ride so i like to run this democratically you let me know what you think we should do okay so when we come here and and so that you have all the information you need you know this put we sold for a dollar 72 and it's now trading at 25 cents so if i take 25 divided by a dollar 72 we've got 85 percent of our max gain so we could close that out and then say okay we've made 331 on the long call we're going to have a bit of attrition um you know with time decay over the weekend but if it goes up that could still be you know pretty positive so i'm not okay so somebody's saying take the money neil's saying buy it back so let's buy back the short put we're going to create a closing order to buy back our put for 26 cents and we're going to recognize that part of the gain which is a hundred and forty six dollars okay and even though it pulled back a bit today we still actually had a little gain on that okay so we teed that up to buy that back let me just see if i had an exit on xom [Music] okay yeah we just said we wanted to buy this back and we're willing to pay 26 cents it's paying at 25.5 so we'll let that work and then on the call side if we look at this and say okay the low of today was 53 12. if it goes 20 cents below that we're going to buy back the call 5312 minus 20 so 52.92 um so we did a synthetic and i guess it wasn't a pure synthetic um because we sold the call that was at the money and we sold the put that was at the money so that neither strike was in the money and it made it a little more affordable for us that's why we only paid you know 34 cents um where you know had we done it both at 50 we probably would have had a credit on that it was just a more conservative way to do it so on the call we're going to come in we're going to right click create a closing order to sell that call and we're going to say we want to sell it at whatever price it's worth if it goes at or below 52.92
now the other thing we could do is we could put a target on it and say you know what um with the markets being what they are don't want to be greedy if we come and look at the previous high on xom could somebody look that up for me and tell me what the previous high was we can come and say hey if this goes and and if it goes back up to the previous high let's say that high was 55 okay i'm just going to put in 57 and i'll go in and change it later if it needs changing and if it goes back up to 57 where are we trading now 55 if it goes up to 57 we'd like to exit but the number i'm going to actually end up putting in here is the number of the previous high or something just below that so now i have an oco order in on this to say hey if this starts to go down if it goes below 52.92 exit okay um jerome thank you so much so and if it goes above 57 we're gonna you know could ching and and take our profit guys you're the best so thanks to faye fayez and edward jerome and and um amy for um helping me out with that so we've got that position in now i i know that when i was a client i hated it if i just joined a class for the first time and all they did was trade management so we have a short put vertical on general motors it's at 50 and 48 the trade is sitting at 5140 so that's kind of trucking along and doing okay neo we're underwater on we said with neo and this is one where you know we traded this one a lot last year it's trading at almost 47 and we sold the 50 put there's three weeks to go it looks like it's bouncing today we'll talk about that one next time and then we have both klein and devin and we're gonna hold those also like look at that down four thousand percent because it costs us very little to get in and this is one where we may just say we had said that we would be okay with owning the stock um but this one i want you to look at and i will look at that monday and um and we may end up exiting this one and just taking our loss because we're close to you know our what we would consider our max loss on this now half of that loss is because of this put that has gone up so much and if we agreed we'd be okay with owning the stock then we may not end up out quite that much but this was an expensive call and we've lost half our value on that okay so we we want to revisit that one for sure and both of these have three weeks to go okay so now what about new positions okay well remember we were talking about you know this scenario down here i'm now going to go up and come back to this basic study set which has the macd and the stochastics on it and and it's nice to have those on there to just notice on occasion if there might be um a macd divergence happening neil is saying every time i say neo he thinks i'm talking about him oh that's adorable okay so here's our friend netflix so netflix has been kind of going sideways since july you know if we come back here you know this is june 30th when it crossed you know the 460 sphere and it's been trading in kind of this range from like 465 to 565 so you know what it's you know it's one of these things where um you know we've been selling short put verticals on it because the overall market was bullish now we're kind of in a more neutral range and it's still you know on earnings it popped up above as my friend vince would say was it a true breakout or a fake out turned out to be a fake out came back and hit its head here again didn't quite hit up as high this time and is pulling back so could we come and sell like the 576 or 577 something like that that 575 580 and do something short term and then if it continues to fall could we then layer in and next week when it bounces off a support level maybe add a short put vertical at the same time does this make sense so you know if we do the short call vertical today when it's bouncing off resistance and then if it continues to come down maybe it just comes back down to this 512 kind of level and then we get a bounce then we would put the short put vertical on and why would we wait well because hopefully we'll get more premium that's the idea and with a short call vertical and a short put vertical when we layer them together that creates something that we call an iron condor and what is so sexy about an iron condor well if you can call something called an iron contour sexy is that you know if we're risking five dollars here and we're risking five dollars here you know we could have the trade go against us this way or this way but the one thing we know for sure is it can't go through but be a through both strikes on both sides on expiration date and so then what some people will do is they manage it is when it comes you know if it comes down like we put this one on it comes back up and bonks its head here then we could take this one off and we're getting paid a premium or a credit on both sides for the one set of risk so that's kind of a very quick and dirty on how to make a credit spread sandwich which is also called an iron condor so we're going to look at this 575-ish which is 30 above where it's currently trading and so if we come down here are we the only ones to have had this idea today yet no we have 245 contracts put on today buying and selling uh 2600 on the books at 32 28 chance that this trade could go against us currently um which means we got a 72 chance that this will expire worthless and we get to keep the premium so we've got a 40 cent bid ask spread that's acceptable on something that's running around eight bucks so if we come over here sell vertical a dollar fifteen credit well if we take our dollar 15 and we divide it by 385 if you do a lot of these you'll know because you do a lot of these you'll just recognize the math i mean that's almost a 30 return on our risk for a trade we would be in for 21 days how much are we risking we're risking over 300 dollars so how many can we do one it's a bull put and a bear call mr malibu you are absolutely right that's what an iron condor is so we're going to go ahead and put that in and we're going to put that i don't even know if we have [Music] a okay we'll put that in our potential iron condor we only have half of the condor in so on a down day at resistance we're better to sell the call spread and then if it comes down so this is a more intermediate trading strategy and this actually is an intermediate level trading class so the idea here is if it comes down to this support level or somewhere close to it and then bounces this is when we do the short put vertical so on an up day when it's bouncing off support we'd do the short put so that's when we'd be better to sell the put so we're going to hang on now we could sell it today absolutely but we might be able to get a position further away or get more premium for the same position if we are patient and we wait i know patience uh who likes patients but you know sometimes the best trade is not to trade it now okay so that was netflix check um let's come and look at disney now why am i looking at disney is it because i think ben watson may be watching um he is mr disney um no actually not um it's because it's in the communication sector and all of a sudden the communication sector is like coming up roses and so if we look at this we saw disney it you know had a surprisingly strong earnings we were expecting it they were expecting it to be down 44 cents a share and instead it was up 32 cents a share and even after that it pulled back which was a little bit mind-blowing but it's come up hit a new high two days ago and looks like it's trying to rally so on this could we do something that's not necessarily bullish but neutral and so you know it could we maybe come down here and get something around that you know 180-ish kind of level about where our 30-day moving average is so if we come down and we say so i'm just trying to do things on both sides of this could we do the 180 this is 21 days out what's the sweet spot about 21 2180 oh i don't know why that shouldn't be delayed oh maybe this is why these aren't filling okay so at the 180 let's right click we've got tons of contracts we've got a 75 chance of that expiring worthless we are going to sell a vertical this is a 250 wide spread so max loss on this would be 200 right um that's what we're risking to get paid that 51 so we could do two contracts and again what is you know 50 divided by two dollars the two dollars we're risking it's 25 percent so if that meets our requirements it does we could do two of these go ahead and make that two now sometimes in this class we'll just put the exit in right out of the gate so we'll come down to single order first trigger sequence say hey when we've got 90 of our max gain we want to exit so when this is worth a nickel get us out now does that mean that you have to wait like if next friday we have 80 of our max gain maybe we'll say you know what we've done well in one week my friends and we are going to ring that bell just because we put in an exit doesn't mean we can't change it so how much can we make on this 108 dollars how much might we lose 392. um and we're going to put that into our short put vertical bucket fire in the hole okay so that one got filled so let's look at these other two working orders and let's come by date uh that's a 112. so we've asked for a 112 credit and this is now trading at 115 um and it's a credit so you know that should fill um and if it doesn't all go in afterwards and then we wanted to close this exxonmobil so let's just this is when it's getting close to the end of the day you know we might say okay we were willing to pay 26. let's just up it buy a penny
you know this trades an awful lot of shares so chances are that's all it will take yep but i will make sure that we get that closed out or i mean if you really want to make sure that something closes out you can always come in uh where did our call go for x on mobile uh it wasn't the call we were exiting it was the put oh maybe that got filled nope i'll make sure at the end of the class that these get filled okay yeah and so you know some are saying you know i wouldn't take that train on on disney i think it's over extended and so you know you might if you put that on in your paper money account you may say you know um just tracking along with the class but i i would have made a different decision and and that's totally legit i used to do that all the time as well okay so if we look at tesla and this is one where a lot of people kind of catch their breath because this stock can move a lot and it can move a lot in a short amount of time and so when we look at this here's a stock that's just had an extraordinary run and it seems like people have got their knickers in a twist either that combination of elon musk making a big investment in bitcoin through tesla or or you know feeling you know that the run has run its course it's gone from 900 down you know it it hit 640 you know it's now trading at at 6.78 so might we be able to come you know like a hundred dollars higher than this to maybe 780 which would put us up here you know in this in between zone but certainly above this 10-day moving average and above this diagonal resistance line and so that's two levels of resistance we would be above now we might say hey if this doesn't you know if this starts to move back to the upside then you know i might close this out you know at a wash and then the other thing too when we look at this and again getting up close and personal it's the french canadian you know down up a little down up kind of little bear flags right down up and we have a kahold entry here sorry kablowed entry closed below the low of the high day yeah so you know and yet they're starting to produce in china and ship in china and like long term you may still be a fan but you may say hey for the next three weeks i think i could make a little extra scratch selling this you know at maybe can i get enough premium at the 760-ish 770 mark so if we come up here and again it as long as this stays below does it mean we're really bearish no it just means we're kind of short term bearish to neutral and so again you know are we the only ones that have this idea hell no 3 000 contracts just today 2 900 on the books when we woke up this morning and this is at the 760 strike and it's trading at 6 almost 680. so above that and you know we we've got thousands of contracts traded today at the 770 strike so if we look at this and say oh could we do 770 let's give it a shot further away the better so here's our 770 775 so that's a 25 return on our risk potentially we could only do one of these because we're risking 400 to make 100 we have a 75 percent probability that this would expire worthless okay so if we're saying okay we're game to do that first trigger sequence right click create opposite order when this is worth 10 cents or you might want to say 20 cents whatever floats your boat and we put that in our short put vertical bucket now you may want to practice with a few others of these now you see here it said it filled us at 97. i don't know why that is um but you know we could look at paypal you know similar type of thing right we could look at american express similar type of thing i'm going to come into a six month chart if you want to do some practicing we could look at take two ttwo um and on that might be a short call vertical right um so there's a question saying how do you know if the volume is buying or selling well for every buyer there has to be a seller so there's somebody on each side of that contract so maybe somebody bought tesla five years ago and they don't want to sell because they don't want the tax in consequences for whatever reason if it's in you know a an ira account there might not be a tax consequence but maybe they want to own it no matter what and so they're willing to sell a call above where they think it's going to trade to make a little money you know if they think it's going to pull back in the short term meanwhile you know somebody else wants to buy a call because they think it's going to go back up on tesla i sold a short call vertical and my intention was to sell a short call vertical because when we come to tesla we are shorter term bearish so we were our goal was to sell a strike that was above what we were selling strikes here above because our expectation is that this is going to continue not forever but for the next three weeks to maybe be below that 770 mark is our expectation and as long as it continues to trade below 770 so it could go up you know 90 bucks a share and we'd still be okay so the intention was to sell a short call i was trying to show you both sides yeah okay so guys we are totally out of time i am running a bit late i appreciate your patience we still have 220 people here with us which is pretty darn fantastic um i was just showing you a couple of other potential setups but you know what the clock has run out mike falette will be wrapping up the week so he does he's just such a font of information so i hope you can stay tuned for that he'll be starting at the top of the hour i appreciate you being with me if you found this helpful if you could do me a favor hit that like button if you're watching this in the archives if you could hit the like button put a comment in the chat that you enjoyed it or found it productive it helps other people find the webcast and then if you haven't subscribed to the channel you'll want to do that as well i think that we did what we said we were going to do it's always kind of a whirlwind of a class isn't it i appreciate each and every one of you being here i think that we've covered the potential downside on all of the trades that we looked at today we recognized a couple of losses you know we rang the bell on a couple of profits and that's it i don't know that there's a survey let me just scroll up and see if there is i know that mike will repost it at the bottom of the chat but i didn't see it come across the feed so i think it is survey free um but yeah if you're watching this in the archives or you want to put a comment in please feel free to do so um and if you have any questions just ask um and i'm happy to answer them of course i'll have to go to twitter for that so my friends thank you so much for joining me today always a pleasure thanks to mike uh fair uh yeah mike fairborne for helping out in the chat appreciate that as well have an awesome day have a great weekend and best of success with your investing take care everyone bye for now