Tourism leaders share thoughts on a social license for tourism, engagement & alignment

welcome to the future of Tourism podcast I'm David peacock stop owning your own contents young leaders are stepping up bring everyone to the table and imagine they're wild anew [Music] around the world there's a new course to be plotted as destination organizations look inward at stakeholders and residents and begin to address the organizational changes needed to facilitate that shift marketing must have a local voice budgets need to shift and alignment and a shared Vision with multiple Community Partners is a rapidly growing priority Jack Johnson is the chief advocacy officer at destinations International if you know Jack at all then you know he's a passionate advocate for Destination organizations globally a strategist a problem solver consensus Builder and for his work well that speaks for itself Adam Burke is president and CEO of the Los Angeles tourism and Convention Bureau he is in my humble opinion one of the most Progressive thinkers and doers in the industry to the challenge of unlocking all the potential of Tourism to create long-term sustainable benefits not just for Los Angeles but for everyone he brings 25 years of experience across hotels destinations U.S travel destinations International to name just a few Jack and Adam are two respected friends and peers of the industry who've been pushing the boundaries of what tourism means to cities to people to the world for the last two decades and more both of them driven by a belief that tourism done well in riches and Nobles and regenerates good afternoon guys how are you jack how are you Adam Jack you go hey David I'm doing really good where are you I am back home in San Antonio Texas it's great to see you I always uh I think the last time we met was Minneapolis yeah I usually see you on the road yeah yeah Adam Adam Burke I have seen you more recently I saw you in Victoria at the impact conference I want to talk about that today but how are you where are you what are you up to uh doing doing great you're you're catching me in uh travel attire today I'm in LA but uh getting ready to head out for a two-week trip to India and China so incredibly excited because you know this will actually be the first time I've had the opportunity to see our team members in Market in India and China since before the pandemic so really excited to see the business coming back but more importantly to reconnect with the team well I I hear the I hear the luster of that and I also see the endless hours on airplanes God bless you you know I I think we've all gotten to the point where you know email overload is a real thing so having a 10 hour flight to get to the bottom of your inbox is an awfully attractive Prospect it is it is all right so guys we're we're about 45 days into 2023 and I'm gonna tell you you know I'm I'm not a pessimist I'm not an optimist I tend to be up the middle but I'm encouraged um little things that started happening last year that are happening bigger and bigger I mean Aspen is experimenting with a new model of capacity compression and comfort Jack that was launched at the advocacy Summit it's it's great to see people doing this stuff North Myrtle Beach is developing an engagement piece directly with Frontline stakeholders to expand their digital Presence at the stakeholder level and Queenstown has declared carbon Zero by Twenty twenty Thirty and they're all hard at work um Adam in Victoria you could feel a shift a year ago that conference there's a lot of talk about what to do and who's going to do what there was plenty of money that's flooded into tourism not enough but enough that there's a lot of initiatives that wouldn't have started otherwise and last year I was worried that those initiatives were going to get water down to the check box sort of things hey did we do our sustainability list it didn't I'm excited by what I'm seeing I'm seeing communities engaged I feel a shift I I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you first Adam do you see it a hundred percent um and by the way I don't know if Jack do you feel the same way but no I now feel this huge weight to live up to those introductions I'll certainly say I you know no pressure um yeah I think there has been a significant shift um and I think part of it is one of the biggest fallacies that I think we've all heard over the last three years about the pandemic was that no one could have seen this coming well unfortunately that's just not true because the scientific Community has been warning anyone who would listen which unfortunately was not enough people for the better part of over a decade that we were long overdue for a quote Global pandemic right that was their exact quote and everyone myself included right we didn't heed the warnings so you know I think what we saw is our industry was ill-prepared for something that had we been listening to the right warning signs we would have been better prepared to mitigate and manage and I think that's what's created the sense of urgency you know we saw that there's a fragility to tourism's ecosystem that if we don't address those foundational issues there are going to be other major disruptions and I think you know my goal for us all collectively is let's learn from the last three years so that we can really take a much broader definition of what sustainability means to our industry and I think that's created a huge sense of urgency but but I think the other thing that's great is they're strength in numbers we're all trying to learn from each other and the sense I get is unlike the middle of the pandemic where you saw some organizations competing around issues of health and safety sustainability I think people are now realizing that this is much more foundational and we need to be collaborating on these issues so I absolutely agree with you I think impact and other events like it show that there's a real will to move the ball downfield on this thing on this stuff Jack you've been working on this for literally as long as I've known you put the Lexicon in our thinking um you have been the strongest advocate of advocacy in this industry that I can think of and not just here around the world I see here in Europe and elsewhere um that shift from you know um intellectualization to action are you seeing it do you feel it are you encouraged tell me tell me about your January um I'm going to disagree and agree at the same time with Adam which is a explains that when I have a political background successful [Laughter] um I think the shift was actually there going back to the the speech at the convention in 2019 um you could feel it something and not get knowledge there um and really what we were talking about was a really small shift I think what you're seeing now well let me go back at the time of the speech I think we walked off the stage and someone asked me how long is it going to take for everyone to shift to this Community Focus and I said 10 15 years um I think the pandemic and what happened that sped everything up every Trend that was in place before the pandemic just got sped up um so what you're seeing today it's definitely there but I think what you're seeing today is based on a small subtle shifts that people were making uh even before I spoke in 1718 in 19 and definitely into 20. um it looks like a big shift now as you go back because the past have gone into different directions but I think the seeds are all there um I'm pleased that it's happening but yeah and I think they'll say in the spirit of improv yes and um so so so yes and I I think we're where there's been a more fundamental shift because I agree with you I mean I would you know you're right David Jack has been advocating to the industry for a number of years that we needed to make this shift the reason I think there's been more of a seismic shift is I think we have to acknowledge the U.S

is actually in a lot of ways significantly behind the rest of the world particularly Europe around this notion of not only tourism as a a social benefit but also the necessity of us being stewards of our community so I mean Jack you've been talking about that for a long time that's the one thing I would point to is um I I've made this point uh when the board got together last December um I think those areas in the world uh most notably perhaps the United States that have been very energy rich energy self-sufficient and the traditional sources of energy um it's taken them longer to acknowledge um the actions that they need to take it's really you know the amount of how long fire seasons are going from three months to 12 months um you all talk about California but you know Washington Oregon Texas anywhere through the Southwest um Iron fires the sheer number of of tornadoes and hurricanes and the intensity of them um that you're actually now have something tangible in front of you that most people like in America and other places the world um can now say oh wow something has definitely really shifted here it has shaped here um I think I'm going to join the movement um but yeah I mean it's you still gotta have I look at Saudi Arabia who's is entering into the tourism Arena and realize they need to be a very sustained or do it in a very sustainable very um environmentally friendly approach um which has the benefit of perhaps freeing up more oil and gas that they can then sell and elsewhere and fund these initiatives um but it is I think anyone who's making a major entree into the tourism Arena especially in the developing World understands they have to come in at a with a sustainability plan and a and a proven track record uh under their back I love the fact by the way that you use the word movement I think that's exactly the right word to use for this this is not a program it's not an initiative this absolutely is a movement that's where we have to think about it because this is has this has to be a permanent long-term effort yeah it's not checking the Box thing it is you're literally this is something that connects you with people in your community and stuff like that because they're all they're pushing you as much as other factors are pushing you so so let's let's let's go down the uh path of the movement piece a year ago even there's lots of hand ringing to the question how do we get started Jack you talked about engaged communities taking an active role but you know this as well as I do and Adam you know from the CEO's seat when it comes to engaging the community the rest of the world thinks dmos are a lot more engaged than they really are and and my my litmus test for that is when the sustainability people came in and started coming into our industry as they well should and they've been servicing the meetings the convention side which is highly organized for a while but start dealing with with transient tourism destinations and the first words out of their mouth were things like well you just set up a meeting with the mayor and when he gets the counsel in the room and they tell you and you're kind of like yeah that that you really overestimate our alignment so when it when it comes to that peace Jack you've called it social license before everyone's at the starting line now everyone's clumsily getting started we did some stakeholder interview stuff in St Jacobs it's a test a few months ago and it was shocking like my eyes coming out of my head the the level of animosity we were able to uncork in a small group you know there's so much learning to be done here but as everyone's at the starting line they're no longer intellectualizing should we do this what are the first steps how do you establish a social license because we really haven't done that before how do we establish social life um and it's not totally easy I what I love about that phrase is that it starts with social um and people have to understand that social license is something that is given by the community to an entity um we have spent a lot of time talking about the community shared value very similar concept um and we have spent a great deal of time uh diagramming what a destination organization who is has a community shared value may look like um the the values that it holds in the and this year we're going to be releasing a field guide which really hopes to answer much more definitively how do I do it um but the thing key to remind is even if you do all those things um it's still the community that makes you the community shared value you have to be a shared value of your community which means everyone has to be there um which is a lot of hard work a lot of Engagement um a lot of listening um a lot of letting them know everything you do and being uh proactively transparent um give them ownership over you that's a tough thing to do sometimes but you really have to give ownership up a bit and let them be participants in the process um and let them shape that direction and go and they'll follow you uh down these roads and stuff like that but they just need to know which road we're going and what's at the end of it um so they have that's all that's and all that that is all net new though isn't it come on yeah yeah it is um but I've also said that I've been saying this for years which is strictly from an advocacy a political strategy it's actually the strategy to go with because if you're going with a strategy that's built around your mayor your councilman your city your county born person your Parliament representative um as soon as they're gone the whole strategy crumbles and you start over again um if you have that support in the community then you start with a a step ahead elected officials follow as much as they lead and if the community is with you they'll want to know that they'll want to participate they'll want to embrace you so on the on the lived experience side of that front and center one of the busiest cities in the world what does that look like how do you achieve social license uh Adam talk about it please well so I guess the first thing I'll say is on on behalf of Los Angeles mayor Karen chass when he or she has a conversation with you as the mayor um I I actually you know want to build off of what Jack said because I I think I would argue and by the way I mean we have the luxury of having this time with you today but there's a lot of amazing work being done by destinations across the country I mean you know I'm continue to be inspired by the creativity The Innovation and the collaboration so you know I'm I'm just one voice among many who are really leaning in on this what I would say building off of what Jack said is I think whether we knew it or not the community already had ownership over what we did that we just weren't acknowledging that role in it because I think Jack hit the nail on the head I mean you know elected officials come and go administrative priorities come and go the one thing that's the constant is our community and I think the the real sea change and I look to the work that um you know destinations International has done with the D next studies you know you look at the last couple destination next studies and there's no question the days when a DMO could sit on the sidelines and say our job is just to promote the destination you know that ship sailed and from a community perspective I think we're viewed as either a net contributor in a positive way to the issues that impact our communities or were viewed as part of the problem so I think that the reality isn't from you know in terms of social license long-term our community already had ownership over what we do because you know if you're facing ballot measures and you need Community Support the elected officials are going to respond to what the community says and if you're ever on a ballot you better make sure that that's not the first time you've engaged with your community so yeah in La this shift for us has been kind of an acknowledgment of that and and I guess I come out from the perspective that you know pre-pandemic there have been a lot of discussion and movement around quote or over tourism well you know to me me over tourism is the ultimate manifestation of a destination not partnering with its community so over the last several years you know they always seen every little good crisis go to waste we fundamentally changed our mission uh and and I'm a huge believer in mission statements because I think they say a lot about the care and intentionality with you with which you articulate your purpose so I won't even give you our old mission statement it was very much you know if you quote Simon sinek it was a what it wasn't a why our mission statement now boils down to one sentence it's to improve the quality of life for all angelinos through the economic and Community benefits of Tourism so at the end of the day we're there to be sewers of our community and to improve the life for every Angelino including those for example experiencing homelessness issues with food security um the way we do it is through travel and tourism But ultimately our goal is to improve the quality of life for angelinos that's totally changed the dialogue with elected officials Community leaders and it's created that social license so there's a dynamism in Los Angeles tourism Jack you work all over the US and around the world who else is doing some really interesting stuff that we can look at and learn from in terms of moving this down the road Adam I appreciate you say that everybody's at it they are but um we're all in varying stages in the bulk of the bulk of organizations are really just getting started on this I believe um I always being I always hate being asked that question because I don't want a favor one member over another um no you're absolutely right though um no one's doing it all right um and a lot of people are doing some things right and then there are some really good examples like Adam here there is really moving into that broader area um and obviously uh Paul and his team in Victoria are doing some great work um there's several frankly you can tick off a whole bunch of them um the the what I do like to highlight sometimes is in Houston where one of the things that um I think you need uh to kind of move down this uh path quickly is to have the support of the mayor and have the mayor understand your importance um because the brand of Houston is run by um visit Houston or whatever um but is embraced by everyone in Houston um and part of that means um the more social aspects of of sustainability uh being embraced as much as the environmental side of the equation also um and the idea that Houston Embraces itself as an energy Capital but energy doesn't have to meet oil and gas it can be something else so that they move and moving in that direction which I find very impressive but they've put the destination organization in the Cornerstone of being the messenger of everything so I love it yeah and and I think they're um a medical center of Texas this sort of approach is really Humane too and comes from from comes from that same place for sure for sure and David someone who I would point to is uh you know we have the opportunity here speak at Diaz annual last year is um senior youngest dad who was one of the who was one of the co-authors of a I think a must read for all of us which was the end of Tourism as we know it and of course now I'm thinking of REM lyrics but but you know it's something that really struck me and and I think she did a brilliant job of articulating the difference in terms of where we're at on the Genesis of this and you know it's hard to visualize this if you haven't seen it but imagine a visual that on the left 90 of the screen shows issues of climate change Workforce Development food security homelessness Etc and on the right 10 percent of the screen was a box that said DMO destination marketing organization or destination management organization and she said Point Blank she said in the U.S most of us are still arguing over what should we should be called yes when we need to be in the game on the left 90 of that screen so I think you know her point was the most important thing regardless of what you call it is you've got to roll up your sleeves and start to dig into the work and I think one of the points that came out of Di's annual prevention last year was this idea that you know what's good for residents is always good for visitors but the reverse does not always hold true so you know one of the things we talked about at impact was you know kind of the the hippocratical first do you know harm I think that's the lens that we're talking about here so I think one of the ways that you to Jack's coin you know you really do get that engagement with elected officials is you look at every decision through the lens of it's great to bring more visitors here but what impact is that going to have on the community and if they're going to be negative impacts then we need to be the ones who are the standard bearers for it has to be a net positive for the community that's such a powerful point I mean the key element of community shared value is not this checklist that you're going to check off it's literally a way of looking at every aspect of things that you do and that's that's important you guys are great you always just lead right to the next point so the next Point's kpi so if we if we the most important kpis that we can employ as tourism organizations especially when we listen to the two of you are ones that confer this whole idea of a social license widely those kpis do and don't exist we're very used to um performance metrics in a sense but as we as we look we need the next set of kpis to measure the ongoing strength and diversity of a destination of its Network um the one that that I just barely seeing emerge already is the alignment with the Strategic vision of Tourism and the execution of it its own performance magic did we did we get a widely conferred social license for this and how did we do against what we said we were going to do they're happening but they're no they're they're not necessarily happening all around the world and then I see something totally bold I mean you talk about Cigna you understand I know why because she's your Muse on the fact that when you showed up in Victoria you took the 17 um unwto sustainable development guidelines and you map them over into La talk to us a little bit about that because that was a fascinating moment for me when you you've already explained I'll throw the graphic in the in the blog version of this for anyone who wants to read it it's really good it's from your slide deck but talk to us a little bit about your presentation um at impact because it broadened the scope of the dmos purview Mandate and intention by more than I've ever seen well and I will say I mean you know I will liberally steal good ideas from anyone and everyone so it's something that we've been doing really behind the scenes but um you know it was actually the event organizers who when we were talking about the presentations you know I had alluded to the fact that we were starting to map to the sdgs and you know she said well you know I actually think it could be powerful if you put that into presentation so would it really did is accelerated the pace which we did that work um you know the reason I think the sdgs are so powerful is because I think we sometimes have a tendency to reinvent the wheel you know there's been so much discussion about what the right framework for tourism is around this work at the end of the day the sdgs really give us that framework because you know if you if you take a close look it's not just about climate action you do have everything in there from gender equality to clean water to um looking at things like food security license inequalities yeah I mean even even the idea you know to the the social license the idea of the right Partnerships for this social contract are built into the sdgs so I think that the way that you really get a movement is to give a common lexicon to everybody and you know in Jack you're talking to the king of lexicon um I I think the sdgs are the right lexicon for us to be embracing as an industry because it's a globally understood set of Standards it gives us a common language that we can use where tourism is not sitting on the outside trying to create a different model but I I think what would be really powerful for us as an industry is for us to identify what are the five or six areas of the sdgs where we either have the greatest opportunity for positive impact or arguably where right now we're perhaps perceived as having the biggest negative impact I mean you look at the carbon footprint for example of our industry I think the sdgs just give us a direct way we have mapping to it and so right now what La is doing we're on the front end of going through the assessment on sustainable tourism development goals so one of the things we're doing in La is we're actually partnering with GSTC to look at the their dimensions of what is a sustainable tourism look like because I think that the goal for us is you know we're not trying to get an A on the report card you know part of the reason we're teaming with them is because I want a gap analysis I want to know for our community not just for La tourism but for arborau tourism community and for our community at Large where are the gaps right now and and I think the advantage of partnering with a reputable third party like that is they're going to come in and they're going to tell you honestly here are the areas where you're doing well here are the areas where there's room for improvement and here are the areas that you're not even thinking about so I think GSTC is is going to be a great partner for that because I I think the first step is to be clear-eyed about where you have strengths where you have weaknesses and where you're not even in the conversation so I'm I'm really excited about the work even though I think it will yield areas in which we're not doing enough right now yeah um I really appreciate the fact that a these are international standards and fairly broadly accepted so I think that's that that's a great starting point they're definitely uh a road map the other thing uh that Adam said that I just want to underscore is um you're not this is not something where you're competing against someone else either it's definitely where you're getting an A and they got a B and you're like I'm the better one it's like there's this goal you've got everyone has to get to because if we don't all work on getting to that goal it doesn't matter how good La does um and it's all striving you know how much how much closer am I to this goal and I think that's I think that's the way measurements have to be going forward and whether it's this or whether it's EDI or anything else like that it's that's the way you got a goal for set for yourself and you measure down I think I'm sorry Speak to speak to me about the practicality of that though because when we start to measure those things we've got to recognize there's literally nothing on the Shelf you pull off and say let's run one of these it's it's very different as you start to measure this value-based stuff yeah yeah there is some stuff go on yeah I was gonna say I mean you know first of all I think you know Di has done a tremendous job of you know kind of proactively recognizing where other opportunities are and providing the Lexicon and providing the tools I'm going to look at something like EDI right um there there's so much work being done but there was not really a way to easily collaborate and share information on that so the EDI assessment tool that di created again it's not designed and I love the way you described it Jack it's not designed for people to say hey we're doing better than another destination the whole point is it's designed to do two things one is to allow benchmarking and the ability for us to continually collaborate share ideas best practices but it's also the idea that there is no Finish Line right I mean I think that's the key is traditional metrics tend to be very time-bound and I think to engage in this work it requires a mind shift and I think Jack's done a tremendous job of articulating this there's not an end goal this is a movement so it's how are we evaluating whether we're meaningfully moving the needle on an ongoing basis and one of the biggest ones I think there are gets along the way but you're ready I think you guys have hit on a really important wrinkle here which is this these aren't the the one of the biggest distinctions you just made in my head over this is these aren't goals that you go because you think about kpis you think about showing them to other people and that's the way we've done that in this industry you're actually talking about you're always ranking yourself against someone else yeah but these are the kpis that you hold up the mirror to yourself and these are the ones that you really really dig in on how are we doing I mean I had a thought when you were talking earlier about you know organizations that are doing a great job according to their citizens and organizations that aren't imagine if you had a net promoter score for is my tourism organization any good and imagine I mean we but we all know that a short of a nine on the net promoter score they're pretty much neutral or negative right so I think most of us it would be really hard to get an nps9 but it's a really simple metric that speaks the fact that we are talking about a kind of future where the tourism organization would have that kind of impact I still think there has to be some sort of kpi that you release to your citizens um and I think um whether it's the you know the old ones of occupancy and ADR whether it's what's happening with these 17 standards and where you're on that where are you on the Ed I stay like that um each one's going to be a little bit different but what we need I've always said is to develop a measurement um and we've spent a year trying to crack it we haven't cracked it yet but we've um uh a measurement that not only explains what it is you do um but how well do you do it and is it benefiting the community and that last one is just as important as anything else and it's going to have to be some mix of something that measures Community Vitality or measurements like quality of life or quality of place of sustainability or stewardship it's a collection of stuff that you kind of hone into a score and it's and it's has to be individualized because it's going to have to be focused to each destination and what's important to them and stuff like that but I think there has to be a community index of some sort but I think we're in the area now are actually saying what it is that should be measured and reported out well I love talking to you guys about this stuff you just gave me like six different things so so so so you know in no particular order um the first thing is we got the idea of an NPS you know we always think of net promoter score from a consumer perspective you know you look at consumer sentiment and you know what's the net promoters core for our destination it's really a community net promoters work so you know we're actually this year we launched our first ever resident sentiment survey and my goal is to get to a net promoter score because I think what you need to know is how do angelinos view what we do and that that is a you know something you can use and and again when I say I agree with you jack there have to be Milestones along the way but you know you could get to a nine or a ten but that's still going to be transitory because they're going to be new issues that are going to come out they're going to be new challenges so it's the idea of not just getting there but staying there and and what I would say is um I love the way you described it Jack do you need the Milestones because what you need to know is that you're making relevant significant goals every single year and I'll go back to EDI so you know the work will never be done right when we're addressing issues of systemic institutionalized racism in in the United States that's going to outlive all three of us but we need to make sure that the enormity of the challenge doesn't mean that we're not leaning in on every single year so you know for for La tourism we have kind of 10 Focus areas where you can't boil the ocean so last year we had three specific goals around EDI and I think this goes to what you're talking about Jack in terms of Milestones so one of them is something as simple as board demographics you know are our boards of directors a true reflection of our community so our goal was to increase representation among women in diverse communities by 30 percent in 2022. I think you have to get them to let that lay that level of specificity because they have to be significant relevant and measurable goals and that that type of thing is what actually chips away at the problem and starts some momentum and then the bigger things happen after that so that is absolutely brilliant yeah that's so important so I I will Echo Adam Burch Cinema I love talking with you guys you get my brain going another just a little observation when you were talking I was thinking about the research pieces we've been doing in communities lately and their resident sentiment is always I I it's the wrong nomenclature it has to be my community is uh my community isn't uh but if it's III there is no community and and there's it's a really it's subtle but the wording makes such a huge difference there what is you know if if I'm in La my community is what it's painful and it's whatever you know and if you say I then it's very easy to divorce community and and tourism from yourself they're very interesting all right we're we're running long on time we could talk forever um we're gonna get I'm gonna give you the final thoughts um thank you for sharing with us as this journey as we move to become more relevant more holistic more contributory and resilient and and regenerative it's been years to to put these pillars in place and now we're seeing that they're actually supporting a movement and stuff I'm really encouraged by that so last thoughts on this it's 2023 it's like we're in a new stadium in a new race and there's a whole new track to be figured out but but I'm excited over to you uh I'll throw it to you first Adam and then you check um so I guess three thoughts um the first one is we can't be daunted by the enormity of the challenge ahead of us because and granted Pollyanna is my middle name but that said um you know on the one hand you hear a lot of people who basically say you know the time to have meaningful action is passed we needed to ACT earlier than we did around issues like climate change but by the same token you have to look at the lens that that's what we know today they also say that the sum total of human knowledge doubles every five years now and you know you look at something like cold fusion that was theoretical until about 90 days ago so what I'm incredibly encouraged by is the the the Glide path to this there can be complete Game Changers I mean when you look at something like the CEO of Patagonia people who are with one you know one move can say I'm going to put that in a trust to make sure that for the rest of patagonia's existence it's going to support climate action people can make a profound difference so that I guess the thing that leads me to is two quotes one is and you know you've heard me say this before David it's the the Margaret Mead quote about never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world indeed it's the only thing that ever has Small Things add up to movements small things change the world so I think if we collaboratively lean on us and I guess the last thing I'd say is I don't think we should for a minute underestimate how powerful what our industry represents and what it does because I think we'd all acknowledge we are living in probably the most polarized Society we have seen in our lifetimes And yet when you look at the Mark Twain quote about you know travel is fatal to Prejudice bigotry and narrow-mindedness I don't think that's a cliche or a catchphrase you know you can't solve this stuff without being in dialogue and what we do is incredibly powerful because what's more powerful than bringing people together across political divides across different socioeconomic strata across different cultures and traditions so I would argue the role that tourism plays in our Global Society is massively related to social license yeah I'd Echo everything you said Adam um I doubt it I mean after 9 11 after you know the Great Recession after um uh this epidemic and everything that went with it um we've always come back bigger we've never been as big as we are now we are the General Motors we are the um whatever the biggest corporation we have the Facebook whatever we have more impact in terms of long-term change than any of those folks um and we need to realize that um and we need to like embrace it and and use it and get other people to come along with us on that um and then the other side of the coin is even though we're like really big never underestimate those small changes that you can make as literally the one thing we've learned in this past year looking on the issues of crime and safety and how a destination organization can be involved in that area is that it doesn't have to solve the problem if it can just chip away at a couple little things here that it actually has control or has impact on uh then it creates this movement forward and motion just feeds motion and then big things will finally happen so my advice to destination organizations is don't be like you said don't be awed by the bigness of it and don't be afraid to do something small that's fantastic guys um I will some up what you were saying Adam the way it appeals to me is tourism done well authentically shares people and places and it shares them with the people coming in and shares them around the world and that's the opposite of War so I'm so encouraged by what we see here we need more tourism done well it's been a pleasure to host you both um thank you very much

2023-03-07 23:46

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