The Space Bar @ The GiG - EP1 - Touring

touring are you doing it is it sex drugs and rock and roll or is it now Wi-Fi humus and Candy Crush [Music] Saga hello and welcome to the space bar at the gig TV show with me Christian Thomas and Jessica Lee Morgan hello it has never been easier or cheaper to be an independent musician in the 21st century but it has never been harder to be heard discuss today we're discussing touring and the implications for the modern musician first of all point one who's doing it well what is the point of touring to start with it's to promote your music to be heard to develop a fan base to sell merchandise to develop new material it's marketing and marketing research all wrapped up in one so who are we I guess we're independent musicians Chris aren't we well yeah we're not we're not dependent on any anybody else are we no that's true we've been musicians for as long as we can remember we've got uh a record label or two we've put out CDs we've put out digital and we've toured in a lot of different ways what is a tour Chris how would you define a tour it's a tough one isn't it I mean I think that we we say it's three consecutive nights away from home right and I think that's probably a fair description of a tour isn't it because you are dependent then on accommodation and food while you're away rather than going back home absolutely but also you can string if you've got if you've got a loose collection of dates in a row across a month or two then you can call it a tour but you'll usually be traveling a lot yeah and relying on Greg's pasties other pasties are available um we've done everything from bus tours across the USA to what we call self-propelled tours in our van shatow van shatow van sleep at the service stations I think we've fair to say we've seen almost every iteration of tour I think we probably have except for the really top end which is unfortunate but we we're not going to cover that top end though are we you know the Taylor Swift has been touring all year all around the world Bruce Springsteen is touring the Iron Maidens I mean he flies his own jet for goodness sake I mean we're not talking about that the articulated lorries the stadia the private jets um although they are strictly speaking just scaled it's just a scaled up version of it yeah you still got your Rider and your crew and you've got to go on stage every night I mean that that's basically the point you have to go to a show yeah that's doesn't really matter what level it is you're at it's that those principles are exactly the same absolutely absolutely the autoq is not very good on this one is it no no you see this is the difference between doing a radio show and a webcast we still need our Auto cu's um I can't see it anyway so it doesn't make any difference so how are we doing doing it at the independent level uh which is our level we've been um we've been involved with uh agents uh who are doing the booking promoters who are apparently doing the promoting and a tour manager who is apparently managing uh and we've included our friends the Blow Monkeys and Robin Hitchcock in this and we've toured a lot with them haven't we a bit quite a bit few thousand miles with them few thousand miles and uh a few dozen dates with each of them and it's been a real pleasure each one but actually we're kind kind of in the same boat their name is definitely bigger on the um on the poster but we've been lucky enough to be invited by by deservedly so as well you know they've earned that right yeah but they're still independent musicians they're still doing it basically from their own kitchen table uh despite the fact they've had a lot more major record deals than we have um but we're playing theaters uh up to say 500 seats um we've done large clubs we've done like the O2 circuit for instance uh small theaters and what we call the toilet circuit which uh includes quite a few venues including places like the cavern Club in in Liverpool we could talk about the toilets there for instance uh and a lot of uh great independent still called Grassroots venues but um so they're on the the the independent touring circuit but they're still basically basic let's face it some are more basic than others as well yeah but um for most others uh for most other people your book your own tour you are your own agent promoter tour manager driver driver uh catering truck uh and then you play your gig and you rush out to the end at the merch table and you sell your merch um so it's very much a handt mouth I would say a hand-to mouth existence and I don't think a lot of audiences are aware of exactly how it happens no not unless you've done it I don't think you realize exactly what goes on no it how much effort there is involved yeah I think it is important to know because without wanting to dispel all the magic of uh of of a gig and you know it's exciting to go to a gig and see your favorite people playing or to discover new music more importantly um you don't quite realize that the people on stage have probably driven hundreds of miles themselves uh they possibly haven't been fed they haven't had a sound check something's gone wrong um and all this stuff uh but for some reason we keep doing it why do we do it Chris I haven't got a clue I I've got no idea it's quite magic though being on stage isn't it brilliant it's the best feeling there is yeah so that's why we do it you know because there's nice people we meet on the way like you know you make tour family don't you that even if you tour with them like the guys we Tor America with when we was holy holy Bowie whatever whatever they ended up being called uh we did a lot of miles um the band were lovely but also the crew were lovely and you know that you know that whenever you get back in touch with them uh it's going to be like meeting up with family again very much your tour family I mean not all bands get on with each other and not everybody gets on with a crew no we were very lucky in that situation some people don't speak to the crew well exactly yeah yeah but we're all doing the same show basically do you remember Clark used to put on put on his Glad Rags even though he was crewing he was the tech uh he used to put on his glad glad drags before the show cuz he would be on stage you know handing the guitars over and all this and something goes wrong you're going to be seen I think it I I really like that but of course he's a performer as well he is yes he a drama but well but he understands what it takes um so yeah it's a mix of everything really if if you've done stadia tours in the 80s you're probably now playing the toilet circuit nothing wrong with that but it means that with fewer costs and a and a much smaller Entourage you get to keep more more of the money yeah arguably there's a lot there's fewer levels in between you know there's fewer levels of management and crew and everything so you end up thinking well I could car my own kit in and I can set up my own stuff and we could make do with one wonderful tech guy like the Blow Monkeys do they have their morgo and the tour manager is Robert's wife Michelle so that keeps cost down you know let's face it they get to share one bedroom instead of having two bedrooms for instance um and uh you're much more in control I think as well at at the independent level would you say you know where the money's going yeah I mean that's the thing you know exactly what's happening with it because obviously if you're touring with a big crew I mean that really does chew up the money yeah and they' got to get paid because they're not in the band they're probably they've got a guarantee that they're contracted you will get paid whatever it is per show your day fee that goes whatever you have to feed them and you have to give him a bed somehow um so yeah and also there's the argument that in a really really really huge draw there's a lot of people going oh they can afford this I'll just you know take advantage in some ways and you can't you'll never know and the artist often never knows what goes on with the crew I wonder if that is still the case it certainly was the case in the '90s wasn't it I mean I think so yeah a lot of let's say freeloaders yeah freeloaders ligers ligers we call them what's a lier it's the person who shows up and just eats the rider and doesn't actually contribute anything or they just that's drummers isn't [Laughter] it there was a time I remember uh one gig with the Bowie lot and um we had all our Riders set out chickens and our humus and our carrot sticks and all the important stuff like that and Woody came in and found a a local local person who worked in the venue starting on our chicken where to get them to get another chicken it's shocking really there's boundaries on tour and uh some people have very very clear ideas as to what the boundaries are yes and the longer the tour goes of course the more blurred those boundaries become yes that is I guess that is an issue isn't it every person for themselves it's becomes a survival thing doesn't it well it's not surprising because you're so far from home yeah yeah exactly it's lonely you get that routine and everything else and you know I guess I'm not saying there's Superstition involved with it but it is that thing that you desperately try and find a rut to get into because it's the only thing you can understand with it exactly it's like camping isn't it I wouldn't say it was like camping no well but you're making like I got this sense that every day you go into a new venue and uh you open the doors and of course it's not your Venue but for the day it's your home so you take over you need to know who's who who's coming backstage what the deal is um and you make your little nest in the dressing room if there's if you're lucky enough to have one you set up your little Rider and uh it's your it's your home for the day and then sound better than any camping trip I've ever been on well yes I know I mean it's possibly more food or not but then you have to pack it up uh you leave nothing behind hopefully phone charges usually uh and then you scoop it all up and you go to the next venue and then you start it all over again obviously the text get in much earlier than anybody else and work longer so thumbs up to the text they're amazing yes thank you I just want to point out this other thing um is what is it what is the difference between a support we've been perennial supports like I say for our two big Chums uh and also for lots of other people uh notably the best of Bowie we did a lot with them yeah and um what's the difference between a tour support special guest and a local support I mean the the tour support is one who goes around with the band yeah so they're there on pretty much if not every night they're there most of the nights on a show local support is from the local town to try and bring in um added numbers to the to the audience their and also to to give you it's a good thing to do for a local band as well to get that boost of playing with a larger band playing to perhaps a larger audience yeah definitely that is a thing yep definitely uh so tour support will often be invited by the by the band or their management which is really nice and you said special guests and then they say you know and they'll say to the uh so the venue will come out and all the promoter they go you the support and uh we've had it a few times now the tech or the RO has gone actually their special guests and the promoter rolls his eyes and goes yeah whatever and only as the only as the gig progresses they understand that yeah we really are quite you know chummy with each other nicely looked after God bless him um so that's the difference but either way it's a it's a really great way to tour um you're not often traveling with a band necessarily you still have to self-propel um but you know that you know every day you meet up you go hi gang I love you how did you sleep oh what was your breakfast like yeah or did you have any traffic um so it's nice it's lovely you're part of a caravan really I mean you're really lucky if you get to travel with a band you're really really lucky um back in the '90s in the death metal scene the thr scene it was um you used to buy onto the bus yeah and you'd event you'd effectively be paying for the tour bus yes it's how they finance I mean there's still like I think it still happens yeah gosh knows how much diesel it uses a day apart from the bus fee and you know um I don't think think you get much change out of about 600 6 700 quid a day on a bus yeah but don't quote me on that if you think of how many people you've got to put up uh who 12 to 14 people you can sleep on a bus and you have to buy them all hotel rooms and all that it saves a lot of money not to mention that you can travel through the night told you not to mention that wake up in the in the town the next day it's the closest thing there is to time travel isn't it yeah I love that you know you leave the venue from you know maybe bus morning and then you might have a drink and a debrief and everything else and then you go into your little squashed little bunk yeah and then you wake up and all of a sudden you're in Glasgow and it's oh there we are yeah or you're in Detroit or and the first thing to do is to find the bathroom yes and then the Wi-Fi and the Wi-Fi yes yeah we've got a couple of songs on the subject I mean you've got Road dog I've got packing up very every word is true basically yeah well we are the road crew we are the road crew yeah yeah I think we'll have to release a playlist at the same time who's getting paid on these tours uh it used to be people get paid yeah apparently apparently it used to be the case that touring BR in the money um you'd have an album and then you go on tour and that would make more money basically but now I think especially since the pandemic since covid uh it's been turned on its head so margins have got much smaller there isn't the money to Splash around uh people aren't going to as many gigs as they used to people are still scared about going out basically to gigs and stuff like that so there ain't much money in it but we thought we'd say uh a bit about who gets the do basically so if a venue hosts a gig uh well you've got to have the venue wherever it is right security so you got security you got bar staff the cleaners the door person the marketing teams the sound Engineers uh local crew often called humpers because they hump the gear not like that local hands Lampe as well and a Lampe yep um but obviously you get different permutations you get um you could tour and use the house house front of house sound engineer every night uh who might also do the lights or you might get an extra lighting person uh all different permutations but basically the venue will have their costs and they'll be paid by the promoter really I think the promoters often the interface again they all work in different ways but these are the elements to take a gig uh there's an agent often who books the gigs um they'll book the whole tour or whatever again different permutations but they'll always take their cut which is about 10% 15% plus fat it depends depending on your agent um then there's a promoter so the promoter is often either a big one something like sjm promotions and they'll do the whole tour then they'll send a rep in either on the tour or who travels to each venue and interfaces between the venue uh and the Act and the tour manager and they'll make sure that everybody knows where they are where the dressing room is where the toilets are and they'll kind of stage manage the night you know they make sure that everything runs smoothly really they can be your really really best friend they can be a definitely be nice to the rep um they usually hello ardal hello ardal um uh they'll usually go shopping for the rider as well so nowadays they often get a a Sainsbury's order in or something you know something delivered to the venue Supermarket other are available but uh of course uh we've had some funny stories about that do you remember the carrots on blow monkey tour so how could I forget the carrots on the blow monke us the same shopping list uh a standard shopping list for the main actor headliner and if you're lucky the the um us people the support that uh first night we had a kilo and a half of giant carrots our Rider said carrot sticks carrot sticks and the Blow Monkeys probably had something similar you know fresh vegetables or something so a kilo and a half of uncut carrots you know who carries a vegetable peeler take a vegetable peeler you never know what you might need on tour um so yeah kilo and a half carrots the next night we had they had a bag of onions as well didn't they not spring onions were they actually had onions and celery so great we can make soup that's right three heads of celery we ended up on a break with three heads of celery that went you know rotten in a hotel room in scarra um I don't like celery anymore postco you and Neville from the Blow Monkeys both yeah yeah so so so the ride is obviously quite hilarious uh but at least you know you can always make a good soup at the end of the the end of the tour um make sure you sweep your dressing room of Rider uh and try and linger after the main actors G promoting nickit as well no cuz they'll um it's for you it's part of your fee basically your Rider your carrot sticks and your humus uh and whatever else they bring the drinks the beer the bottled water um it should all get swept up and into your touring package uh and it you know it goes on the bus or it goes into your van and you keep it with you uh Robin often stashes a whole load of cheese at the end of the night he'll find cheese amongst his you know stuff in his suitcase uh but yeah it's yours uh and don't let the promoter take it home for him and his wife um because that will happen um so sometimes you might have to wrestle it out of their hands yeah yeah yeah uh it's not only I'll point out at this point it's not only for your time at the venue it's for for your tour it's your Rider it's a rider that rides on with the main contract basically but um it sustains you for that day from the moment you enter the venue uh to the time you get to the next venue so it can be your breakfast the next morning how many van breakfast have we had with cheese and humus and Pitter bread and stuff and the Costa Coffee and um other coffees are available and um we're still waiting for that uh sponsorship deal by the way Costa that's a that's a winner that's a definite winner obviously we haven't at it um but yeah take it all with you yeah this is so important uh because it's how you live on tours part of your home you're traveling otherwise I mean the cost is just astronomical isn't it yeah yeah um so the promoter is often an independent person so they'll be uh they'll have made friends with the venue um and they do it for the love basically they do it because they love music and they want to bring their favorite artists to their to their town and to their venue um quite often they won't be paid uh quite often they'll make a chili from home and bring it along that was nice though wasn't yeah um they'll quite often invite Independent Artists to stay in their house afterwards which is a contentious issue we have done it once and I can't say that I was comfortable uh I think and I was there with you and you were there I just not for I don't want to go into details it wasn't anything terrible it was just it felt unprofessional perfectly honest I would rather have uh booked my own travel lodge and stumped the money up you know if you can't argue for an accommodation fee then just just make your own um I don't like it personally don't don't get yourself into a compromising situation as well it is very easy to when you know you're hundreds of miles from home yeah you don't know what's going on this is a big thing now especially female artists traveling alone they're invited to stay with a promoter you don't you know even if the promoter is you know a couple or a whole family is worth it's still I don't know it's a boundary that doesn't need to be crossed uh and it makes me uncomfortable and quite often I suspect this doesn't go for all promoters but they do it for the bragging rights um well there we are yeah so uh so as I say this is an honest and upfront in-depth discussion on the music industry and and these are the things that happen I mean I suppose it is a thing isn't it if if a star or if someone suddenly becomes a Star Overnight yeah oh yeah they stayed with me when yeah when we did the Dog and Duck in I don't know yeah exactly trying to think where they are dog and Ducks I don't want there's everywhere it's got to do and Tuck um so so the last people to get paid are you your crew your tour manager your band your on tourage obviously if you're part of a properly contracted uh tour then obviously those people will get paid but there be a guarantee in place there will be a guarantee hopefully but if there's a profit SP split you know we have seen it where certain people ended up with no money whatsoever yes so basically the point is that everybody will try and make their money before the musician before the person whose name is on the bill yeah um so be prepared for some arguments uh have a contract um even if it's just a string of emails uh ideally get your own contract together uh that has things like the time you arrive the time you leave your stage times whether there's parking um your Rider obviously and your fee and how you're going to get paid so often get to the end of the night and I'm so elated at the gig and whatever and then I'm in the van afterwards and think oh didn't talk about the money um so either you're going to invo the agent uh after the gig and they'll pay you according to their terms it could be up to 4 weeks it's a bit annoying um or they'll pay you in cash on the night and I've had them give me the money you know they give it to you like a little palm you know and then you look oh thanks very much and you open it up and there's half what you agreed on get the email ready on your phone at the end of the night say that's what we agreed oh was it oh I must have oh sorry about that yeah and then they stump up the rest it's not nice but it happens and especially as a female they'll try and they'll try and pull it and you can put all of this into your Advance as well that you send out to the venues before you get there yes so you'll be require saying what your stage requirements are what your Rider requirements are yes but you can also state if you know that you're going to get if you've had a guarantee offered to you already then you can put that into the rer saying you will pay us x amount yeah um preferably I don't know either on the night or yeah on receipt of invoice or something yeah CU you can actually force the issue a little bit there you can try and force the issue with it yeah but it puts you you have a moral right with that then yeah you got a grounding exactly cash is King I mean Chuck Barry used to get cash before he even went on stage no cash no gig yeah but I mean that look at the places that aren't taking cash anymore yeah but you can try I think there's still you know there's still definitely an argument for it and it's in your pocket and um that's it make sure you account for it properly though yes account for it properly as well CU it's very easy to burn cash isn't it yes even if even if you are spending on a legitimate EXP like fuel for the next day or something yeah you got to keep a keep a record of that the last word is that um as a support act they're quite often if you're invited to do a local support for local gig they'll often suggest that you do it for the exposure you know which is up to you but you are quite entitled to ask for 50 Quid 50 Quid is kind of a standard for a small gig um up to 100 if you're if you're more of a name and invited as a special guest then you can ask for a bit more um but if it's 50 you know ask for the rider ask for the full shopping list you know carrot sticks chicken legs two cans of coke two cans of beer or something like that uh they can always say no you can also get a buyout 10 15 quid or something 20 quid to go out and buy some food cuz usually the venue won't have a catering but if it's in a pub venue or something like that often they'll they'll feed you as they might feed you they'll feed the whole touring party as part of the night which is quite nice yes um so it all always varies just just be clear uh because to you know five nights down the line You'll Think I'm really undernourished and tired and I can't think straight that's the thing if you ask it's not going to hurt that that if they say no okay well you've asked anyway but they're not going to kick you off the show and if they do kick you off the show well you probably dodged a bullet then yeah because you don't want to be at that kind of show if you're just going to get oh it's just exposure you should be lucky you should be grateful for being here that's not really the point yeah yeah exactly I mean they can they can we out of it if you're the headliner obviously say where's my flipping food yeah that's different they'll often try and say oh no we'll we'll cook you a nice meal instead of giving you everything you want which again is not uh is not what you ask for yeah things don't work like that because you might have a delay and get into the venue you you can't you want to have your Rider you want to have everything available you want to have what's familiar to you as well you don't have to wait for somebody to go and get a glass of water for you when you just want a bottle of water yeah which has happened we've seen that quite a few times actually yeah you want a kettle you want a coffee making facility you want to be in in control you don't want to be at the beck and call oh you've got to eat at my mate's restaurant it's amazing and then it comes he's like this is not what I can eat yeah anyway that's uh we'll come on to the well-being bit later but um the other the other cost of a gig what's recharge Chris you're quite keen on this one be a little bit careful with this I mean you may not see it um it's something that comes out in a contract and it's often in theaters um it probably won't happen on a smaller scale but sometimes a venue will try and recharge the cost of the PA and a sound engineer or the lighting or anything that they'll try and charge that to you so you got to be very clear that all of that stuff is included before you sign that contract because you don't want to think well okay we we we've got a few people in we should make a couple of hundred quid then find out that you've actually got to pay for the sound engineer yeah yeah it will often say you can have it for a fee which covers sound engineer PA high and lights but just make sure that that's included because otherwise the the recharge that can be well charged to you is quite High yeah and it's a shock then when you think oh I can count about 200 people out front and then you get your Your settlement at the end it's like 50 Quid yeah yeah just cuz you weren't clear um the merch is a big thing merch is the way most touring people make their money um so have all of your CDs consider making something for the tour anything goes basically t-shirts tote bags I'm make making my own tote bags um sign photographs anything like that uh anything that's fun and lay it all out on the table you might CDs as well you remember those yeah CDs people like them um you might have to sell it yourself uh as the support act we've often helped out Robin selling his merch do you remember that time we first met him and he turned up with a little box of CDs like 25 just one title and uh his his fans are real collectors aren't they and they turn up I have way more CDs than he did and they go oh is that it so um he solely underestimated the love that people have for him and then on subsequent tours he's been much better supplied but you still got to bring it you still got to drag it in a suitcase you know he's got suitcase full of clothes and merch and his guitar and that's it you know so um but it's well worth doing because people people will be willing to spend so have a credit card machine of some kind Square costs 20 quid for a reader that that's the thing at that cost it's if if you don't have one of those you're leaving money on the table we've lost so many sales before we got that but and particularly postco things have changed so much with this those venues aren't taking cash people don't necessarily take cash to a gig anymore you know so you've got to have a card reader I mean get one get one get one for 20 quid is and it's like 2% every transaction or something yeah which isn't great and obviously we would prefer it if everything was cash but but it's yeah it's difference between a sale or no sale and obviously help your Co you know the other people on the bill you can watch the merch stand for them sell um and then watch out for the merch fee that the venue might charge some of the bigger ones for instance I remember the Liverpool film monic we've played in the big room where you did merch for the bo Bowie tour um they take a cut and then we played the music room the smaller room with Robin they take a cut so at the end of that they'll come up and go how much did you sell um and we have got to take 10% I'm sorry about they go oh it's been awful I only sold uh I only sold three CDs they go okay that's fine I have three quid and they know full well that you're probably lying and they the person who's taking your money doesn't really want to charge this either um other venues though they'll have a security guard counting your merch in counting it out all sorts of things it's it's pretty horrible apparently a good way around that and I wouldn't know about this is um if you're carrying a Kick Drum in or something you can put t-shirts in there post h after security guard or whoever has checked your stock you could then bring some up with you I mean all this smuggling happens particularly cross boarders and things I wouldn't know about that we not talk about any of that stuff no no no but it's definitely a money spinner um and again proper accounting is vital but uh it's well worth doing now I believe Tim Burgess here of the charlatans and the great haircut uh he was behind something called uh the 100% list I think it's called and it's a list of independent venues mostly independent that don't charge a merch fee which means that you get to keep the money uh it's up to you whether you want to pay someone 50 Quid to run your merch store um if you if you can't do it uh having said that now I'm thinking oh I'll sell my own merch and actually post gig I'm so swamped with people wanted to say hello and also I've just played a gig and then trying to sell merch so if you can afford if you think you'll sell enough try and get or just your friend or husband wife whatever and it depends what you've got in your touring party as well because I mean you've also got to break the St stage down yeah you've got to get your stuff off stage it's manic yeah so you're usually break down the stage now I'm trying to sell merch and people actually ask me for my autograph good Lord uh and it's a lot to deal with so try and try and get a friend do to do it for you um or the venue might know somebody um but yeah it's a definite money spinner if if you play it right yes PRS now PRS will come on to on another on another sh together but it's a collectional it's a collection organization and it collects royalties for songwriters and that includes you if you are the songwriter and you you're playing a show um you'll play the show if you're the support act or the headliner you then submit your uh set list online to the PRS you say what songs you've played um and then they will calculate how much of the 4% box office fee which is payable to the PRS um is yours and on some of the some of the Bowie support ones we've done uh it's been you know a fair a fair cop but even if you're playing in the gigs and clubs things you'll get about a tener a night a 10 12 15 quid a night um playing your own music um put put the covers in as well it's fair you put the covers in and they all get money too so that's a really important thing make sure that you're not being coerced into opting out of this I've seen some venues saying oh you no we're paying you anyway you shouldn't be able to you know oh it costs money to put on a gig we're not paying the PRS fee it's a hard one write the PRS and they do a lot of good work I know they've not you know not everybody's a fan but really if you're in the game they are your friends and the money is yours and also for venues in the game they should be paying that money they should be paying it it doesn't make any difference no cuz they'll be paying a PRS a PPL license as well for the money for the music they're playing in between songs in the bar afterwards and all that so don't sign up over your rights no don't sign away your right don't opt out of anything it's your money you get it and make sure you submit your set list there is an argument as well because even at Grassroots level that if a venue is saying you're a Grassroots band you can't have PRS don't play the show just boycott the show yeah they're not worth you know and there's a whole debate about Grassroots venues going under but if a venue is like that and they're unscrupulous in giving you your rights to having played a song and only Char only only giving you a very small amount of money don't play the show and let the venue close don't worry about it yep controversial words but this is the thing this is why this is why the whole industry is being eroded is because people are saying I can't afford it you know we can we can set up a gig anywhere they're paying their Bar St yes exactly the cleaners get more more than you you you getting so um yeah it's important and this is what we're trying to do with these shows is to raise standards so you've you've earned it it you've earned it do it so we've talked a lot about well-being food sleep that kind of thing uh I've got to say Chris is it worth it what sleep well touring all right sleep's quite nice is touring worth it yes yes without a doubt why is it worth it because it is even if you're only on stage for half an hour um as long as you get some recognition from the audience there is nothing like the vibe of being on stage and having people cheering at your song or singing along when you encourage a crowd to join you in a chorus or something there is nothing like that it's a drug isn't it there's no drug that's as good as that so basically we put up with all of this I've had them all paracetamol aspirin I've had a lot all the travel and the starvation and uh people taking advantage it's still worth it just for that little bit um I mean if you're not getting that little bit and you don't like that little bit then it's probably not worth doing yeah no but um if if you're proud of the music you're playing and you love playing it this is whether you're in a covers band or tribute act or writing your own stuff uh it's such a it's a great feeling and that's why we do it there is an element though that you've got to move on with every tour that you do you've got to be getting a bit better and that's not about you as a performer or us as performers it's the venues have got to get better or the deal that you're getting has got to get better because if you're still traing up and down the motor for a ten or a night or something you know yeah a net gain of a ten or a night yeah you know you've got to count the cost haven't you uh you've got to say what am I getting in return and you can't be doing the same as you were 5 years ago you know you've really got to think about why you're doing it but nobody can tell you why to why you should do it or what what you should do no it's up to you no that's right I mean you might really love um sleeping in service stations yeah but it is a job and you have to be if you're going to do it I think be professional so that means turn up don't moan uh don't throw Tantrums don't make a mess don't get in the way of the headliner or or indeed anybody else in the venue if you are the headliner still behave properly you know because uh everyone's doing the show whether it's the local crew or the bar staff or anybody like that just uh just be nice you know everyone talks yes everyone talks everyone's got stories oh God we had such and such in oh they were terrible oh they were lovely or they were they were terrible and then they were lovely cuz it was the end of the show I was reading about Henry Rollins somebody said oh he asked nobody was allowed to talk to him or acknowledge Him or look at him but at the end of the tour he wrote to everybody or did something lovely and acknowledged everybody and how great they were cuz his head was in the zone so you hear that a lot his head's definitely in the zone yeah um my particular bug bear is a lot of people have been cancelling shows and tours since covid um and I've always said basically I will do a show um if I can breathe in and out basically I hate cancelling uh I'll always find a way to do it so yeah you will I know and Chris I'm sorry I've made you I've made you gig you've had what you've had your cough muscle you've had your finger you had FL I'm a base player and i' I've had to play with broken fingers I'm so sorry but really it you know if you don't do it I know I can't really do it and then well I have done it without you and it's not as much fun so you know basically if you could just get through the show because you'll have an inflation of of uh adrenaline you'll get through it and then you can collapse afterwards with LM siip however Co spun everything differently that you could feel perfectly fine uh but you could test positive for covid and for a while you could not play u we had a guitar tech who got it couldn't do the show um there's all there was all that stuff hopefully we'll never have to go through that again touchwood but um really I think postco people were saying oh it's ill health or mental health or covid or whatever and actually it was low ticket sales yes yeah because ticket sales have been affected by CO as you said at the top of the program yeah people don't necessarily book shows like they used to and they're not booking far enough in advance yeah uh you have to you have to sell tickets far in advance you can't get to the week before and have a a you know a quarter full venue even if 75% of people buy their tickets the day before it's too late you know you you think I'm going to lose money you have to cancel so cancellation probably uh for sickness um you can probably the promote and get their insurance back for instance possibly I'm not touching that one with a barge you cut your losses but that's why people are canceling I think and blaming on what I think are very poor reasons but that's just me I mean you go on tour things happen and they get gigs get cancelled or changed mid tour for various reasons people get sick accidents happen hopefully not so be insured yourself Musicians Union has Insurance along with your membership there's really no excuse to be insured you see people go oh I lost all my instruments you know there's a there's a practical thing like you've got to Source new instruments before the next show but and some instruments are irreplaceable fair enough perhaps you shouldn't be touring with your Irreplaceable instruments but get insurance you know things happen anything happens get AA membership you know you will break down if it can happen it will happen basically what in somewhere in your touring career um I mean we've been on a door bus tour yeah and the bus has broken down yeah woke up that happens quite a lot apparently goat farm in Texas or something like we still made the gig the tour manager got a load of uh well the people who owned the farm I don't even know where we ended up but the the people who owned the farm basically put us all in their pickup trucks and drove us 2 hours to Dallas where we played flipping heck that was uh yeah uh so the tour the the tour Will Go On The Show Must Go On It must it must it must it must otherwise you're letting down hundreds of people you know when Adele canceled her residency in Vegas is people have got uh transport booked they've got hotels booked and if the show doesn't happen it's all you can't just refund the tickets that's not enough it's not enough no you know you've lost all that other stuff so just don't be a dick do show for God's sake also look over your shoulder if you don't fancy doing a show just look over your shoulder and look at the queue of people who would love to be doing that show exactly exactly um so yeah don't be a big Ed um food exercise booze and drugs be yes well-being is a big thing vitamin C don't get scurvy yeah eat well don't eat too much drunk food don't drink too much you know beer is great don't have 10 beers just have a couple of beers see but all of that stuff is easy to say it's where do you get fed because if you're a support act it's difficult to get food before you go on stage because usually sound check then the doors open that's it yeah and you got half hour if you're singing you can't sing on top of can't eat on Pizza I can't sing on Pizza no quite quite often they go y we got pizza I go no have it for get it for afterwards in a box but that it can be quite difficult to eat though can't it um or you could be in a venue you you could have a buyout and there's nothing around the venue yeah exct which is often yeah a thing as well deliver or just eat or something on your phone and work out because otherwise that Temptation you're so hungry driving after a show yeah because if you particularly if you're having to drive to say a hotel at a service station or something like that you've still got to drive for maybe 3/4 of an hour to get there and service stations shut early in the UK there's usually a wh Smiths you can get a dry sandwich so you've got to be careful uh we're not sponsored or Affiliated in any way but we we took huel on our last few tours and that was that made everything a lot easier just knowing that you actually had a food supply yeah something that you know you had a a you can have a bowl of pastoral Curry or you can have a shake and it just stops the Panic like that empty Panic feeling uh you can't have it all day every day but it certainly could knowing it's there substitute a couple of meals with it yeah um obviously if you'll want to sponsor us that's absolutely fine lovely yes you know you can stock your van full of um you know tins and packets Ramen noodles or anything you can make with a kettle or you know just fruit or nuts or anything like that so you've got a good Supply my dad I remember buying a sack of almonds like this in the Walmart just before we went on tour New Jersey Walmart and uh yeah constantly on the almonds so um but that was a particularly well cated tour as well that was I had the very best the very best avocados I've ever had in my life in San Francisco on that tour Filmore West yeah fil more West yeah yeah oh they didn't have put one a spread there you look didn't see any of it that was crew yeah yeah yeah I was I was wandering around but yeah that big uh booze and drugs well you know that's a whole other show just don't do them kids uh including painkillers I've put here but um you know those days are on the Wayne simply because you have to do the whole thing yourself but it's just not you might get caught up in the moment and I have believe me many times but a a hangover on a tour bus is not fun it's a lot more fun on a tour bus than it is in a splitter van yeah or in a Transit yeah but you're still sharing the the toilet with 14 other people yeah uh with certain toilet restrictions um but people do it to get over the highs and lows you mean we've done some great shows everybody's screaming they buy your stuff afterwards You're such on a high then you pack it all up and that's fantastic and then all of a sudden you're in a service station car park unable to find any food uh and um it's hard to deal with ups and downs yeah it's really it's really difficult and that's why people you know in the old days used to party with you know sex drugs and rock and roll it's cuz you want to prolong the party you've been at work all day even if you have been on stage and it is work it's a long day work yeah you've got to be on your game then you need to decompress so it is often you know much later in the morning you know and then the Roadie for instance driven home another flight morgo drives home after a show sometimes he'll arrive home at 7:00 in the morning and then go to bed for the day uh so you really need to look after yourself whenever you can if you're not touring keep on the exercise and the good diet because that will stand you in good stead for when you are touring even if you are young and in your early 20s you should still be doing this stuff because it it it all adds up and it catches up with you really quickly I remember when I was working for the PRS benevolent fund looks after uh you know members in difficult circumstances there was only a young lad and he said I need to career change or something because I can't keep up with the booing on tour and the rest of his band really wanted to you know hit it hard and he said I can't I can't do this it very wise but it's very difficult decision uh I think I think it's going to start slowing down on that front now people are realize that you just can't it's a lot of downtime though it's an awful lot of downtime the other thing is that you're living in the future the constant stress even when you're not on tour so you get might get booked for a tour in January if you're lucky you've got lots of not you get booked for a tour they send you the schedule so you know you've got to be at these places uh in September so you start working out your hotel book them in advance um you get good rates then you've got to figure out can you get from here to here then you're looking on Google Maps how long this journey Tes and that long takes so you're working down to like oh 4:00 will be arrival 6:00 be soundcheck um so you're living in September but you're still in January and then all of a sudden the day after the tour in September that's it gone it's gone yeah um so it's it's really strange so mental health is uh is so important because you've got all this to deal with um people change on tour don't they Chris oh yes they can do yes not everybody does but yeah you become because somebody else is often in charge of your life you become like a little kid like SCH kid yeah where do I go now what time is it where's the toilet where's the Wi-Fi I mean I've been on Mini Bus Tours where lead vocalists might have turned into small children and you know they're all of a sudden they're back at school on the back seat you know throwing things at the driver who also happens to be the guitarist of the band or something you and it's just like what are you doing the if you've ever seen the film The the film it's not a film bad news yes if you've if you've ever seen bad news is absolutely perfect that the big time mentality that people suddenly think they've got because they're driving up the M1 in a old Transit it's amazing how it happens even at that real Grassroots level yeah yeah yeah I know but that's it you become institutionalized on tour don't you you can do yes cuz you've got that does Master tour say yeah yeah don't ask me ask Master tour ask Google diary or whatever they've set up or the tour book yeah but you forget don't you there was one tour we had all our itineraries on the back of our laminate so you have a tour laminate that you wear for the the whole tour um and the venue knows to recognize those ones on the day for instance but you know you you're there in the merch stand afterwards they go oh it's great how's it going where are you off to next and you go um can't say I haven't got me glasses on hang on even to the extent of I've stood up in front of a show and gone hello hello Guilford and actually we weren't in Guilford we're in glester Guild Hall and you know you can't it is all the cliches are true that's all I can say everything you've ever seen in spinal tap or bad news or any other Brian p uh they're all true definitely but people change as well because you're a long way from home you know you could be in the middle of a okay we've said we're not going to do the yearlong tours but you could be in the middle of an 8we tour yeah and you're 6,000 mi from home yeah you're not going to be your usual Jovi your self no sometimes you know and to be understood you know you can have bad days and you can have good days but there will be times when you're going to miss your family yeah and you're sick of the sight of the people I mean we had that six week tour in America you know that the lives were very sad and missing their family and missing their wives we were lucky because we were together but my dad was there you know there was some very Bleak moments like you're either sick of everybody on the tour bus you started to Rob each other up the wrong way which didn't happen a couple of moments but um generally it didn't generally we were quite well behaved you know the tour manager said I can't believe you know you're not watching telly or playing games or get smashed every night yeah but but it does happen though I mean as particularly on those the the big the big tours the the long tours yeah that's why bands have individual um buses yeah with their own family on it yeah yeah you've got to have the sanity because they've seen what's happened when they've done it before y That's it anyway it's worth it so should we sum up Chris go on then I think despite the pandemic these are unusual times despite the pandemic knocking out of everybody I still think there's this thirst for live music music people are still going to gigs even if there a fewer of them they're still going they're still the buzz they still love the excitement of going um so you know we want to make it the best it can be really and look after everybody I guess I mean you've got to do it you have to get out there and do shows it's still the the best best way of selling direct to your audience yeah you get to meet your audience yeah definitely it's market research uh and marketing and everything rolled up into one isn't it you don't have to get tired as well after being on tour don't you you you really musically yes you understand your songs as well and you you might adapt them a little bit when you when you're playing them and oh this is a really nice way of doing things well to yeah touring so touring songs before you've recorded them uh which will be the content of my next album uh is really good because they change and evolve don't they yes you should become completely comfortable with them obviously not all bands do that they they can just foist an album on an unsuspecting audience which is great as well now we're going to play a trap from new album whoosh off to the bar I got it uh so but despite all that you've got to be Savvy realistic uh about the financial and the mental physical cost to you yes you got to weigh it up basically it's not for everybody it's fantastic uh my mom for instance never ever wants to tour ever again my dad loves touring but he doesn't like the bits uh that aren't on the stage frankly it's fair enough that's what Danny Thompson said yes exactly the playing is free yeah it's uh it's all this the sitting around and waiting that's that's what you're paying me for yeah hurry up and wait don't give away your rights NOP don't let venues take the Mickey out of you in terms of your merch and also your PRS yep and your human rights frankly and make sure you know what you're getting in terms of money yes yeah be clear so if you've been affected by the topics discussed today feel free to get in touch with us we'd love to know what you think uh you can reach us at the methods uh which will be displayed in this video or in the comment section below um please share the video if you found it useful uh and above all look after yourselves and enjoy yourselves cuz that's what it's all about see you next week see you [Music] [Music]

2024-05-05 01:32

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