Planning - 26 June 2023
thank you thank you uh good afternoon um it's two o'clock so let's make a start welcome to today's planning meeting of the 26th of June I would like to welcome members of the public councillors and officers to this meeting and I call upon the clerk who will advise how the meeting will be run this afternoon thank you madam chairman please note that we are using hybrid meeting arrangements with registered speakers joining the meeting via zoom and we are live streaming this meeting by the council's YouTube channel to encourage more people to engage in our public meetings the proceedings of the meeting will also be recorded please can I remind everyone to use their microphones when speaking and turn them off when finished police can attendees present in person refrain from watching the live stream or joining the zoom link as this will cause interference for our viewers in accordance with the Constitution members of the public who have registered to speak will be permitted to do so when invited by Madam chairman I have confirmed those entitled to speak we are not expecting any fire alarm testing today in the event of an evacuation you will hear a recorded message requesting you to evacuate the building please leave by the nearest exit the Riviera Center staff will assist you once outside please assemble in front of the tennis courts to the seaward side of the building please and also ensure that your mobile phones and iPads are turned to silent each application will be dealt with in the following order the planning officer will present the submitted application and will outline the proposed recommendation in full any registered any speakers registered to speak on the application will be invited to address the committee and this will be taken in the following order speakers against neighborhood forums Representatives any counselors who are not members of the committee followed by speakers in support of the application all speakers will have a maximum of five minutes each to address the meeting this will be followed by questions from members and responses from the planning officer once questions from the committee have concluded the chair Madam chairman will open the application for debate at the conclusion of the debate Madam chairman will seek a proposal and seconder for the application The Proposal must be in full and include all information such as conditions or reasons the chair Madam chairman will then confirm with the planning officer if they wish to enter into a period of summing up members if at any point you leave the meeting for any reason during the consideration of an application you will be unable to vote on that application I will now hand the chairing of the meeting to Madam chairman councilor Jackie Thomas thank you Clark before we commence with the main items on today's agenda I would like to take this opportunity to welcome Dr Rodney Horder the chair of the Torquay neighborhood plan Forum to this meeting to provide members with a brief introduction to The Forum and its role which may be especially helpful for new members to this committee thank you Dr Horder if you'd like to come and take a seat to address the committee thank you thank you very much Madam chairman for allowing me to speak yes I'd just like to introduce myself first I'm actually a retired pharmacist having spent my career in the scientific part of the pharmaceutical industry a retired from that and become much more knowledgeable in planning than I ever have been in the past I joined the Steering group of the neighborhood Forum in 2017 and worked closely with Leon Butler and others to prepare the talking neighborhood plan and then when Leon stood down into 2020 I I'm 21 I took over as chair our neighborhood plan took a lot of work by a large number of volunteers but was actually adopted out or supported at referendum by 87 percent of the vote and was duly adopted by the council in in July 2019. and we're currently working on an update where we're partly trying to update the policies where in use we find some of them could need clarification and also to build in new housing numbers where we're trying to work closely with the the planning operation and future planning to identify potential sites for Torquay the good news is we have over 1900 potential sites many of these are in our local plan already but haven't been either consented or if consented they haven't been developed and then we have a few more to add uh as far as the Forum is concerned we represent the community and this is really in response to the localism ACT and our Mantra is community-led planning so we have members of the Steering group our representatives of the individual Community Partnerships but it's really our side of democracy and then you folks the councilors you've been elected to represent the communities as well so I hope we can work together to do what we want to do which is build the right houses shops offices in Torquay in the right place that's what we're all about we're not sort of nimbies or stopping development uh what I do each week I receive the same weekly list of planning applications as you folks do I send these out to the Steering group asking if there are any for which we should do a Consulting response we don't do that for all of them because we've developed a policy checklist and I sent an example to you for the application on the table today which we do a detailed review against all the policies in the local plan and the neighborhood plan and put a response together and this takes about three hours so it's involved quite a lot of time for my volunteers this the statement the consultee response is actually agreed by the Steering group before it sent into planning and then when something comes to planning committee I feel personally it's important that I do present the forums view to you we may not have done a consultee response because we didn't think it was necessary but nevertheless if it's before the committee we will provide a response and that will either be in support or objection according to our feelings so that emphasizes again we're not nimby's we do support the right development in the right place so if anyone would like to ask me any questions I'll be glad to respond right thank you very much thank you Dr Hoda okay moving moving on to the main agenda items can I ask the Clark if there are any apologies or updates to the membership of the committee thank you madam chairman um I can confirm that apologies have been received from councilor pentley thank you minutes to confirm as a correct record the minutes of the meeting of this committee held on the 30th of May 2023 is there a proposer please thank you councilor Carol and a second thank you counselor Patrick Joyce all those in favor please show by way of raised hands that's unanimous chair thank you um Declaration of interest do any members of the planning committee have any pecuniary or non-pecuniary interests on any of the items on today's agenda please raise your hand no nobody and do any officers have any pecuniary or non-pecuniary interests on any of the items on today's agenda thank you are there any urgent items thank you sorry madam chairman um none that I'm aware of thank you so much okay um so we'll go on to moving on to items five and six to consider two applications in respect of 48 to 50 the Terrace Torquay which is p stroke 2022 stroke zero eight nine five stroke MPA and P stroke 2022 stroke zero eight nine six stroke l b we will discuss both applications together but when we get to a recommendation we will deal with each application separately Clark has confirmed those who have registered to speak upon entry to the meeting I will therefore ask Mr Jim Blackwell to introduce the application thank you Mr Blackwell thank you madam chair this application is for the development which proposes a change of views from offices which are currently vacant in numbers 48 and 50 the terrace both a residential the provision of 10 residential Apartments three one bedrooms six two bedroom and one three bedroom and then number five Montpellier road which is to the rear it would be converted to create one bedroom apartment and one two bedroom apartment so the total number of Apartments would be 12. the two buildings in the center of the Terrace which were internally linked at some point in the 20th century are a former range of residential houses some now in office some in residential the topographers we saw on site today and Views are critical here the um you can see from the um the Terrace the way it stepped down to the harbor side and above again with the landform creates lots of views particularly from the harbor side but also across the bay uh there were a Time retirement apartments to the north there's the former car park and hotel development to the east there's no entry sign here from Montpellier road which includes cars going around this type Bend and they're also a mix of residential and Commercial offices uses going down the Terrace towards the Town Center so again this is the view now looking at from Montpellier road which is in the foreground to this to the bottom of the image you can see the curving landform you can see the topography as it steps down towards the harbor side which is here and those views across the harbor this is the conservation area appraisal so you can see that 48 to 50 The Terraces amongst the whole listing for this property so the whole of the Terrace is listed as one 48-50r here as we've seen on that layout plan and you can see John's Church which is grade one listed to the North West and also the key buildings that are surrounding it in yellow and the list of buildings either side so I've sort of picked out 48 to 50 in the in the street scene you can see the Terrace there that linear curved form white rendered the varying dorms and roof extensions to the top you can see just to the left image the grade one list of church there's that group value that you get from the view from the from the harbor side of those as Heritage assets so here you can see the front of number 48 and the front to number 50. you can see there's basements below these Bridge links you can see this number 48 is much more intact in terms of its features and its windows and fenestration number 50 is much more altered also this is three Bays number 50 is five bays and slightly projecting forward as well and you can see the impact those roof extensions have which are all important as we move on through the proposals is the range of rear connecting extensions between 48 and 50. you can see that particularly 50 here that sort of bundle of rear extensions that have happened that link between five Montpelier road which is this building here mix of pitch roof flat roof a real sort of uh jumble of different buildings that connect the two this is the five Montpelier road which is a two-story building like this stone wall either side of the building the sort of size and scales two-story in comparison with Montpellier road that hierarchy between 48 and 50 which is the building here and this is the five Montpellier road to the rear the narrow footway and the entrances and the entrance into 48 which is to the right hand side of that image just a note inside there's a range of original features although you can still see that pre that form of office use some minor conditions is in some minor condition issues due to lack of occupation a bit of water Ingress and site but otherwise very intact but vacant both vacant here you can see one of the major features in number 50 which is the elliptical window which we'll come on to show in a second so once the existing plans this is a layout plan showing both this is the line broadly between 40 and 50. existing basement and ground floor note these and that basement plan the sellers which are interesting feature of that site and that working through to the ground floor where you can see that trouble of buildings to the rear and all the office uses as well you can notice that there's a staircase which we'll come on too soon which connects that elliptical window we showed you on that that image earlier an existing first floor plan and the existing second and third floor plan so you can see all these partitions in place as part of that office use in existing elevations it's the Southwest elevation so you can see 48 and 50 there the range of Windows the connecting buildings connecting to five Montpelier Road the rear elevation and that sort of cut elevation of 1.5 Montpellier Road note also the sort of
window positions and doors the existing scale of the roofs and the Dormer windows it's just a breakdown of the schedule of accommodation that's proposed as part of this so 12 units mix of bedrooms a mixed sort of community a range of sizes and a range of immunity space provided with some of those units onto the proposals now so this is in the basement number of doors and wind doors and different features on that set on that access seller down to those stairs which are being changed and put back to what was original there's three units in the basement two one bed one two bed and those would be taking advantage of these Courtyards to the rear proposed ground floor with two units one one bed and one two bed and you start to see that new staircase that's going in there which supports that um access through the building of number 50. due to the level changes because it's on site this is the first floor plan but you can see that's the access in through for underneath five Montpellier Road Seven parking spaces a range of bin storage cycle storage Source heat pumps Landscaping and the fire space that four spaces here three under the building and the access point to the rear of the building this is the second floor plan so you can see two residential units in the Montpellier Road they're both one bedroom and two two bed Apartments within 48-50 with some community space to the rear and this is a two bedroom apartment on the top floor adjusted for head height you've seen the staircase running through it's one of the main features it's a bifold door originally shown here which I'll come on to later and this is a key point which is covered in the amended plans around looking at that puncturing through that um that elevation and that Dormer there so worth bearing that mind as I show the images sort of taking a step back of some previous designs as part of this applique pair of applications that have been refined now so just as a sort of point to note really this was original proposal which uses a very modern very linear modern extension with lots of glazing taking a similar roof line clad in modern materials and this is what's proposed so reflecting what's there now and mansard's slate roof stepped down to reflect the change between the three Bay and the five Bay Terrace buildings and matching Dormer windows with this roof with this Dormer in the middle really key to this is the Symmetry that would be returned so the doorway that exists here will be returned to its original position centrally matching the features shown on neighboring buildings some photographs submitted as part of the Heritage statement showing existing um sorry original photograph from around 1913 to a current view of what's there now just note the sort of White Cloud nature of number 48. historic England have noted some of these changes in the application and have detailing some of the comments around matching the original doorway and made some ask for some Visions which this application has responded to and some additional supporting information as part of the Heritage statements and this is a uh just a sort of photon Montage just to show how the the new scheme will assimilate into the background so you can see that white render you can see all the windows being repaired and reinstated the sort of delicately handled Dormer on the central one and the step down with the slated mansard roofs so just looking at um the proposed Southeast elevation this is the terraced the left-hand side Montpellier to the right you can see that mansard route sort of limited space compared to the original plans to sort of sit out in that space set back all those linking buildings have been removed and retained five Montpelier Road and conversion somebody from the other side you can see that Montpellier Road retained the link building's gone modest extensions and reinstatement and repair to the rear of that just for context again so this was the original proposal demolition of the five Montpellier Road and the building of a three-story new build with access underneath and you can see that sectionally how that would impact and that space that would be between the host building the original building and the proposed this is a much more simplified approach um to the rear so removing a lot of those existing extensions and this is the retained Montpellier Road and you can see how it's modified with gated access some windows matching sewing Stone dressed around and that scale has been much reduced by retaining that building I mentioned in both reports particularly in the planning report about the highways comments there was a swept path analysis that was submitted that's being deemed acceptable and there's two comments that have been provided one around the traffic speed so we've seen that largely one way which traveling from the West is a very close Urban environment the highway Authority has asked for further information about visibility splays it's clear that there's low speeds in that area though there's very clear visibility from that Junction there's not really any footway so officers are clear that that's over being been overcome and in terms of the site layout there's 12 that's been suggested by the highway Authority whoever offers are very clear that seven can only really be accommodated and those previous comments that from The Horizon Authority that seven were acceptable anyway and what we're really clearly discussed on site is balancing the heritage of the significance of that site not making that entirely car parking that space entirely car parking impact on the Town Center living so close to sustainable transport and just making a note that it's so close to public car Parks anyway there's a cycle store and there's electric vehicle charging points for over 20 and bike storage either the neighborhood plan policies the material considerations and just to reiterate the comments earlier from the clock that this is for two applications the planning permission for the change of use and the parallel application for listed building consent which are both approval for by officers recommended for approval offices the conditions outlined in the final consultation response from highways confirming no objections with the final draft and conditions delegated to the divisional director of planning housing and climate change thank you thank you Mr Blackwell I called Dr Horder chair of the Torquay neighborhood plan Forum to address the meeting in support of the application you have five minutes and the clerk will let you know when you have one minute remaining thank you thank you madam chairman although the turkey neighborhood Forum did not provide consultee comments I would like to confirm that the neighborhood Forum supports this development it is a welcome return of commercial property to residential use and but we believe this will support the viability of the town center and contribute towards fulfilling the five-year housing Supply the buildings were originally constructed for residential purposes and the Forum is pleased to note that the external architectural features will be generally retained or enhanced there is a potential concern with the respect to the lack of parking facilities within the development but we recognize the constraints of these particular buildings and note that the public car park is available in Montpellier Road in addition there is good pedestrian access to the town center facilities and public transport and cycle storage will be provided so therefore we support this application in the interests of efficiency these comments apply both to the main application and the listed building consent uh thank you madam chairman thank you Dr hodger if you'd like to take your seat thank you I now call Nicola Burley of Heritage Vision to address the meeting in support of the application you have five minutes and the clerk will let you know when you have one minute remaining thank you Thank You by way of introduction I'm a chartered Heritage planning consultant and have been working to help conserve the historic environment in Devon in both the public and private sector for 30 years I speak today on behalf of the applicant in support of The Proposal as the Project's Heritage consultant I've been involved with the proposal from its Inception it represents an excellent balance of conservation of historic fabric enhancement of the conservation area and provision of 12 delightful new homes in a sustainable Town Centre location a proposal which is being recommended to you today by your officers for approval the Terrace is truly at the heart of the evolution of Torquay from a small fishing Village to a resort of international significance the Terrace is the first Grand Construction in the town started in 1811 it was the first project undertaken by Lord pork it represents the beginnings of Polk's extraordinary development of the carriage drives and Villas across the hills behind the town something which I find to be one of the fastest most extensive and elegant building projects ever to be taken undertaken across the world looking out over the harbor with its three stories plus basement and attic it's elegant classically proportioned and detailed rendered elevations which include a finely detailed first floor balcony and its smart railings and Pavements to the front and long walled Gardens to the rear the Terrace began to show that Torquay could be more than a fishing village with a few boarding houses it was the start of the resort boom and the start of the great success of Torquay the Terrace thankfully remains today as a major feature of the town center and harbor it is the backdrop to the harbor but when looked at closely it can be seen that in places its nine original houses are suffering from a lack of Maintenance loss of original features and inappropriate alteration and extension but the significance and prominence of the Terrace remains despite these changes and the whole of it was listed grade two as a single list entry as far back as 1952 a very early listening indeed the Terrace is wholly worthy of its grade 2 listing and needs to be conserved and appropriately appropriately for the enjoyment of today's and future Generations the proposed development involves two of the original townhouses within the Terrace what are now numbered number 48 and number 50. number 50 as described by Jim is the Grand Central House of the Terrace it is five Bays wide rather than just the three Bays of the other houses in the Terrace it was the grandest address to have in Torquay to celebrate its Grand Terrace its Grand status it had a central front door leading to a wide entrance hall that led to a glorious elliptical staircase that was lit by the elegant elliptical roof Lantern which she was shown earlier the grandest staircase in the town today sadly we are only left with the stairwell where the staircase existed and the roof Lantern has been covered by a flat roof the plaster moldings joinery in fireplaces remain but the staircase has been lost number 50 was linked to number 48 the first rule level as the two buildings fell out of residential use and became offices number 48 and 50 have been office in office use probably since the late 19th century in office is the central front door of number 50 was lost with a new door next to number 48 being developed windows were altered and enormous extensions were constructed in the rear Garden as you were shown earlier in 2020 when the accountancy firm that occupied the two buildings left for an out-of-town convenient Business Park location the buildings were put up for sale they were redundant and need of a new viable use that can serve their significance thankfully the buildings have been purchased by a developer that is acutely aware of the responsibilities and needs that come with a purchase of a listed building a proposal before you represents a viable new future for number 48 and number 50. The Proposal conserves
historic Fabric and the appearance of the building at the heart of the conservation area it Returns the buildings to their original use as dwellings and importantly Returns the original plan form to number one minute remaining thank you the central front door is reinstated a central elliptical staircase is returned to the heart of the building the modern staircase is removed the elliptical roofed Lantern is restored and the windows at number 50 are put back to their original form the rear extension of number 50 is removed which allows the rear of the original building to be appreciated and the 1930s building at the rear of the plot is retained and sustainably converted in total 12 good sized one or two bedroom dwellings are provided without any loss of significant historic fabric this number of dwellings is required to balance out the cost of conservation there are no material concerns raised by officers with regard to the proposal which has been the subject of careful negotiation and adaptation over the last two years the proposal is found to offer a good opportunity cons to conserve number 48 and number 50 and to establish a long-term viable use for this part of the terrace The Proposal concerns the historic core of the resort of Torquay it's a good project for the terrace and a good project for Torquay your offices thank you Miss Burley who have run out of time thank you thank you the officers agree it should be approved thank you for your time if you'd like to take your seats thank you committee members I will now invite questions to the planning officer please may I remind members questions should only cover matters not raised in the presentation are there any members wishing to ask a question [Music] no questions for the officer okay in that case um I will open the application for debate thank you thank you Council the cow thank you madam chair and um I I actually welcome this um application I think it is a very sympathetic um design it recognizes the heritage of what is a fantastic asset I.E the Terrace and the additional roof development actually is synthetic sympathetic and probably more sympathetic than some of the other neighboring developments have been permitted in the past and of course the eradicating those awful non-descript extensions that have been formed over the previous years is only adding to the quality of the application in front of us and of course it does provide those 12 additional units of accommodation which Torbay is desperate in need of um and whilst there may have been some concerns about car parking I think because of its location and proximity to the town center um it doesn't create any concern for me so I'd be happy to support thank you chair thank you councilor Cowell um I now call Adam councilor Adam Billings thank you thank you chair I'd um endorse the comments that we've heard earlier um both from Dr Horder and also councilor Carroll um I personally I was a little bit disappointed to see only seven car parking spaces I think there was would have been a benefit if we'd been able to find 12 on the site in line with the um the highways authorities initial suggested guidance but equally understand that this is a listed building there's there's space constraints and that flow with the site and there's only so much that can be done to work with the existing fabric we were able to see earlier the the very clear rot and Decay that there was to the fabric of the building to the front some of the windows in particular it got quite severe either wet or dry rot and what we've got here is a proposal that will will provide a way of um of uplifting the fabric of the building to how we'd like to see a historic building like this um retained in Torbay um and I I I was persuaded that the the the roof line was um was it was going to be much more um pathetic and attractive than than that sort of on the buildings either side particularly it's not so clear from the from the flat sort of 2D drawings but we're losing the projecting um soffit and face here on the very top story so when you're viewing from roof from from ground level the roof will appear to recede back further and and that was something that I think will will allow us to from ground level focus on the the main sort of Stories of the building rather than the roof editions so I'd agree I'd sort of I think this is a welcome proposal it's been sensibly thought out and it seems to be very very in keeping with the building and um sort of I'd be interested to see what other counselors thought but I'd be quite happy to to move approval at a later date unless there's further debate we've got chat thank you thank you councilor Billings counselor Mike Fox thank you just to add my comments of agreement on the quality of the scheme um possibly a bit more bullish on the car parking in Council Billings I think that in the sustainable location it's in and the proximity of a large car park short walk away um that 70s is is very appropriate thank you thank you councilor Fox thank you councilor toshard um yes I'd like to Echo the comments on the quality of the proposals I think when we had a site visit this morning it was evident um you know the great deal of thought that's come into almost rebalancing those two properties um we have expressed concern I suppose about the uh parking provision but I understand that you know for sustainability and where the development is actually situated um the seven parking spaces are adequate um how are they going to be allocated I mean is that down to um you know when the properties come up for sort of purchase as it were or um is it going to be open to people to to sort of buy a parking a parking space yeah thank you [Music] thank you yeah we discussed it on site the um there's no allocation of those parking that's a sort of operational thing the Quantum of parking is seven so it's about how those those apartments are managed uh and Council Blues was right with that that um those comments around how that's as you can see the picture the the slenderness of the site that need to provide bin stores cycle parking the SS heat pumps um and the significance of the building itself and freeing of that space all those factors come into play when you link in and sustainable transport seven is is actually quite a lot I would suggest so actually that's a quite a high level parking considering it's such an urban urban location and given the confines of the site so to answer your question it's an operational thing I would say thank you councilor toshot um do you have any other Anita's debate on this matter okay she's uh she's deep in thought there okay um any more debate from any other members thank you counselor Joyce I would thank you chair I'd just like to agree with everybody else it's very sympathetically done it's protecting the heritage of the area on the Terrace like councilor Fox I don't particularly have any concerns for either parking either I think with its location with the infrastructure of Transport in that particular area I just think it's going to add value and protect the environment around the terrors thank you councilor Joyce is there any more debate from members no okay thank you do I have a proposal then please happy to propose as recommended by the officers thank you you do have a second thank you councilor Billings are there any debate on the proposals in the second thank you okay um I call upon um any summing up from Mr Blackwell please that's right for me thank you thank you very much so I will now go to the vote um all those in support of the application please raise your hand that's unanimous thank you I now declare this application approved thank you okay thank you moving on to item seven okay sorry I have moved on a little too quick um do we have a proposal for the application which is the second part P stroke 2022 stroke zero eight nine six stroke lb thank you Council the cow happy to propose as published thank you very much and do I have a secondary thank you councilor Billings so um okay so I will go straight to the vote on that um all those in favor thank you that's unanimous I declare this application as approved thank you so now we are moving on to item seven to consider an application for 21 Sans Road painting the clock has confirmed those who have registered to speak upon entry to the meeting I will therefore ask Mr Alexis Moran to introduce the application thank you thank you madam chair so the site is 21 Sands Road painting it's last use as a b b stroke Hotel known as Three Palms The Proposal is for a change of views to 10 self-contained residential units for supported living with communal facilities it's outside of the local plan core tourism investment area but within the painter neighborhood playing Cora tourism investment area it's located within an area of mixed residential and Commercial properties and within flood zone 3. the application is supported by a site-specific flood risk assessment which has been reviewed by the council's trainer engineer and the environment agency the consultation responses from both state that providing the identified flood mitigation measures are Incorporated The Proposal is acceptable this image shows the front of the site as we saw on site aileron all signages to be removed as part of The Proposal and at the rear there is a new fire escape staircase to be added which isn't highly visible in The Wider Street Scene just in here the proposed change of views to 10 self-contained residential units for supported living is much like the proposal that went before the May planning committee with the accommodation offering Support Services to vulnerable persons with low to Media mental health needs who've been referred by Torbay and South Devon NHS trust and the council's social care team it will be managed by Westford housing group and residents are expected to stay for an average of 18 to 24 months staff will be on site between the hours of 8 A.M and 8pm with on-called support available outside these hours each unit will have its own kitchen and bathroom and there'll be shared kitchen and dining space for group activities a letter was submitted in the sport of the application from the council's care commissioning team stating that turbo council is working to reduce the number of people with enduring mental ill health living in residential care when they have the ability to live in a recovery orientated housing based model of support and that the model of high quality self-contained accommodation proposed will offer individuals to identify support needs greater choice and control approximately 39 objections have been received the majority relating to the impact on the tourism offer in the area this map shows the local plan core tourism investment area in green there so we can see that the site is outside of that however the site is just within the paint and neighborhood plan quarter as an investment area and as such painter neighborhood plan policy PNP 14 is relevant the site is the modest size facility which was run by the owners the loss of the tourism function via the loss to the tourism function of the area and the local tourism economy is considered to be negligible given the amount of Tourism accommodation near to the sites particularly within local planned quarter as an investment area which includes the extra 280 bed hotels at the Park Hotel and the former lighthouse it's concluded that the site is of limited significance to the overall tourism offer in the vicinity and paragraph 11 of the mppf states sets out the presumption of in favor of sustainable development for decision making this means where the development plan policies are out of date permission should be granted unless the impacts of doing so would demonstrably and significantly outweigh the benefits When assessed against the mppf taken as a whole the council cannot demonstrate a five-year housing land Supply or the required three-year housing delivery the site is within the built up area in a sustainable location and the provision of 10 supported affordable units is the substantial benefits the proposal has been tested against the criteria of policy pnp14 and is considered to largely comply with it and due to the lack of a three and five year housing land Supply the Tilted balance through the provision of 10 affordable units were significantly in favor of the development in conclusion The Proposal is in accordance with the provisions of the development plan when taken as a whole and the Tilted balance had significant weight and favor the development in the absence of harm being identified The Proposal is considered to be acceptable in principle and would result in clear social benefits by providing a specialist form supported accommodation to primarily serve the residents of Torbay which is not unduly impact on local immunity it's considered to be acceptable in terms of ecology flood risk matters as considered to represent sustainable developments the office of recommendation is therefore one of conditional approval subject to the conditions outlined on pages 77 to 80 of the agenda with final driving and conditions delegated to the divisional director of planning housing climate emergency and the resolution of any new material considerations that may come to light following planning committee to be delegated to the divisional director of planning housing and climate emergency including the addition of any necessary further planning conditions or obligations thank you thank you Mr Moran to address the meeting against the application Mr Stewart you have five minutes in total and the clerk will let you know when you have one minute remaining thank you thank you madam chair good afternoon councilors my business is in Stafford Road directly behind the Three Palms Hotel and I'm also representing hotels and guest accommodation providers within the close proximity of this proposal we fully recognize the need for this type of facility in the bay and the important work of Westford homes in providing accommodation and a service for vulnerable adults we understand wherever this facility was proposed you would likely receive numerous objections however in this instance our objection is solely based on its location within a red tourist Zone Three Palms Hotel is in the core tourist investment area of the paint and neighborhood plan all holiday accommodation within this area should remain protected for hotel tourism and Leisure use the approval of 10 supported living Flats within this area would set a dangerous precedent to any future applications within this Zone the tourism and Industry is a vital to the economy of painting and these planning policies need to be upheld the applicants design an access statement quote planning policies to2 and PNP 14 and a management plan that highlights the need to reduce stock policy PNP 14 indicates that it will allow change where it can be evidenced that there's no reasonable Prospect for continuing use for tourism purposes Three Palms is a 15-bedroom hotel advertised as 300 meters from the beach it was operating a search until the end of last season it is currently rated 9.1 or superb on booking.com from 410 reviews it is also accredited four stars by visit England there clearly isn't any evidence that there is no reasonable Prospect of continued use the requirement of policy to2 have clearly not been met Three Palms provides the full range of facilities you would expect of a hotel of its size it is clearly not in an area in need of regeneration and isn't in the category of redundant stock or of limited significance to2 seeks to restore buildings to their original historic form by the removal of unsightly features this proposal has no provision to remove the uncycling features such as front and rear flat roof extensions indeed the fire escape would only add to these references to the Turning of the tide for torbe tourism strategy recommending that an oversupply of small and outmoded accommodation be reduced has been misquoted it actually refers to accommodation in the four to ten bedroom category the additional beds recently offered by the new Mercure Hotel development are clearly aimed at a different clientele with rooms at three times the price of hotels like Three Palms they offer affordable family accommodation and the many reviews would seem to support that view Westwood homes should have been made aware of the by their advisors of the clear planning policy in this location several other hotels and holiday lets are available outside of the tourism investment Zone an earlier application for the same proposal was refused on the 15th of December the planning officer gave three key reasons for the refusal firstly that the proposed development results in the loss of a tourism facility contrary to policies to2 of the local torbe local plan and policy PNP 14 of the painting neighborhood plan secondly the proposed development would provide a poor quality residential environment contrary to policies H1 and de3 of the local plan the third refusal that the proposed use would result in the loss of an existing hotel and change to a building containing 10 Flats all of which would below the space standards set out in policy de3 of a local plan and is contrary to policy ss11 of the local plan so these were the planning officers comments just six months ago clearly greater than the technical issues as the applicant had suggested the second application for the same proposal has not in any way addressed any of these three key reasons for the planning office's refusal we are therefore perplexed that this latest application has now been recommended for approval we would like to know why the sudden change and disregard for the several planning policies quoted in the office's initial refusal we can understand on the face of this why you wouldn't want to vote against a mental health facility but the need for this facility shouldn't override planning policy set out to protect our tourist industry neighboring hotels have made significant personal investment on the understanding that the development plans are there to help protect businesses of Torbay thank you thank you Mr Stewart if you'd like to take your site thank you I now call on die Sterling ciao and Rosie Dinan of Westwood housing who are joining us via Zoom to address the meeting in support of the application you have five minutes in total and the clerk will let you know when you have one minute remaining thank you get off Main chair and counselors I'm Rosie Dunham from techno King planning speaking on behalf of Westwood and will be followed by a die Sterling child Westwood's associate executive director of Support Services thank you for allowing us a few minutes to speak Westford welcomed reports recommendation and appreciate the time officers have spent with us on this revised application as the officers report outlines the use of the site as the supporting housing scheme for residents is acceptable in planning terms the revised application addresses matters such as flood risk and provides further details on how the premises would be managed and operated by Westford whilst we welcome the officer's recommendations were approval we do have concerns about conditioning two is drafted as unfortunately we did not have cite the planning conditions before the committee report was published the planning officer has subsequently indicated that they are willing to discuss the conditions for the conditions further and subject to committee's decision this afternoon however we would like our concerns formulated in addition to as drafted is unnecessarily restrictive and onerous rest would as drafted the position seeks to limit the occupants to talk by residents only however as the application and submission material clearly states Consulting will be given to referrals from Torbay and South Devon NHS Foundation trust and Torbay adult Mental Health Service care team however if vacancies are not filled they will be opened up to other providers including Devon partnership NHS trust indeed this is part of the agreed framework and arrangements with the commissioning bodies furthermore condition two reasons though it's a personal condition as it can only be used by Westward and it's used to see swans West would sell the property there is no reason why the permission needs to be personal to Westward as we have demonstrated that the use is acceptable in this location and this has been endorsed by the planning officer's recommendation therefore another organization using it for C2 use purposes should be equally acceptable as our own proposals westwards are concerned that such a restrictive condition would leave the property with a new use value if in future they sell the property National planning advice contained in the planning practice guidance advisors against the use of personal conditions of accepting exceptional circumstances which this is not a condition as drafted would not meet these six tests we would accept a condition that would limit the occupancy to 10 residents as a service provision allows only for single occupancy of each flap due to the continued need for such services West would have been actively trying to identify an appropriate property for some time key objectives of finding a property is that it's the right size and in the right location the property at Three Palms meets these essential criteria The Three Palms Guest House sees trading as a bed and breakfast last year and it's ideally suited for westward purposes by providing a supported housing service being close to services and amenities The Proposal comprises that conversion of the buildings into 10 self-contained single occupancy gaps and provides group workspaces a communal kitchen and laundry facilities staff offices and private one-to-one meeting rooms to engage further with the community Westwood hosted a drop-in consultation event at Peyton Rugby Club in March 2023 to provide further information about the proposals and westward's supporting Housing Services the event was well attended by local residents stakeholders and councilors Westwood appreciates that some local residents have raised concerns about the proposal but Westwood is a long-stance long-standing responsible and regulated social landlord and is very experienced in providing supported housing that benefits the well-being of residents we own and manage a portfolio of properties in Torbay and across the Southwest and you've supported Housing Services one minute remaining will operate similarly to the existing housing facility at steepway in tall Bay which has been very successful in assisting local residents to live independently build confidence and increase skills it's a much needed and invaluable service which will benefit to All by residents Westwood housing are on the tour Bay supported living framework to develop and manage such specialist services and the Steep Waste Services a shining example of good practice which we hope to replicate at Three Palms as with our Statewide site residents will be referred to the service and priority given to referrals from toolbang South debt and NHS Foundation trust specialist mental health Team and Tour by adult Mental Health social care team all residents will have a short short-hole tenances likely to become assured tenancies under the renters Reform Bill and will receive personalized support in how to manage their tenances to develop college students Sterling ciao and miss steinen your five minutes are up thank you very much committee members I will now invite questions to the planning officer please may I remind members questions should only cover matters not raised in the presentation are there any members wishing to ask a question from the officer thank you councilor Billings thanks chair um I've got a number of questions um first one would relate to some of the things we've been told I believe I heard in the presentation from Westwood housing that the planning agent was advocating for the removal of condition two and indicated that there wasn't a sound basis for it um which would suggest that as to open up the possibility that Westwood could sell the facility to another provider I just wondered um what your what what officers views were in light of that uh in relation to their the soundness of condition two if challenged plays at a later date yep so um having having discussed this with uh with a legal council here um we we agree that there could be some flexibility in that to allow it to to go out to other other users within um within a CT use um but there would still be management plan conditions Etc that so we wouldn't lose the C2 use and it would still be managed um as as it would be if permission was granted today okay so your your recommendation would be slightly changing though would it um the condition would just remove the personal personal parts of it to Westwood and beef to a other CT other C2 use providers within that remit and and so there therefore although we are also told by the applicant Westward about their Provisions we shouldn't maybe give too much weight to that because it could be another operator that could be operating the facility um well yeah but there is still the management plan condition so we'd have to to review that condition so we would still want it to be managed in the same way that that's helpful I've got another question just changing the topic slightly um in relation to policy to2 um I believe it talks about setting um could you tell me what you think um that could could you tell me what you think that is a reference to like setting holiday setting and and if this isn't a if this isn't within the holiday setting where we think would be please yeah so it it talks about a number of different things setting is one part of it um so you you may the site is within a mixed use of residential and and um commercial properties so you so although that stretch immediately where Three Palms is does have a holiday setting the wider area is a mix and the policy CO2 also talks about different aspects such as you know change of use um where there's a regeneration benefit or there are there are other benefits um so I take your points about the setting a bit but I think there's more to that policy than just about this um and then going on from that um that PNP 14 talks about function um I was just wondering how what our thoughts were on that please yeah so there's there's three parts to PNP 14 so there's that not being a HMO which The Proposal isn't and would be conditioned to not be and then you look at the value to the tourism offer provided and you wave up against the size of the facility so it's a 15 50 was a 15 bedroom facility in a mixed residential and Commercial area um and wave up against provision in The Wider area such as the additional new 280 bedrooms at the park and lighthouse and then you that balance comes to a you come to a conclusion that I came to a conclusion that the loss of the 15 hotel rooms there is negligible compared to the wider offer in the area yeah so just to explore that one a little bit more because I think that was PNP 14b where we've got within the talk within the core tourism investment area it talks about no reasonable Prospect of continuing for tourism purpose and the change proposed would not detract from the areas function I I'm just wondering sort of if we're going to expand a little bit more still on that sort of because did you take the view that it wouldn't is that the key driver on that so so I took the view that there was some conflict with that policy um I took the view that it had been on the market for a year without anybody coming in already been or had been off hadn't been in use for a year without anybody coming in as far as I'm aware um coming in and offering to buy it as a hotel or an or a BNB um and I took the view that there was some conflict with that policy but the but the broader policy terms and and the lack of five five-year housing land Supply weighed in favor of the development overall thanks Mr thank you Council balloon so happy with your answers thank you any more questions for the officer thank you Council Madison hello I'd just like to investigate a little bit more uh what you said about the usage of the property as a hotel um how have you investigated how recently it's been used as a hotel have you demonstrated the change of demand in that respect I went by the information the design access statement which said that it hasn't been in use as a b b or a hotel for the past year thank you Council emergency happy with that thank you councilor Fox okay just a couple of points on this um could the officers amplify what is meant by the right property and location it's my first question second one in relation to this consultation event I I wasn't even a counselor at the time didn't go on to it so I have no idea how successful or not it was um it would be helpful just to get some sort of feedback as to how sincere or otherwise that consultation was and then thirdly Westway talk about a similar property to this at a steep way and in terms of of words like dangerous precedent I just wonder whether Steve way fits into that sort of fear or where the Steep way has been a good example which would help to reassure people which way you've gone up yeah so in terms of how uh the speaker just described it as the right property in the right area um I think it meets their criteria in terms of its size and it's also in a very sustainable location at bus stops outside um close to the town center um close to the train station um within walking distance of the beach so it provides a good quality environment for people who are looking to recover and get back into normal life in terms of the um the consultation event um I think West would have summarized those points in their design and access statements and I think they they provided some um responses within the design access statement as to to questions that were most answered most asked and in terms of steep way I have spoken to Westwood West West Westwood about that and um they advise that there was it generally operates without any issues there was one issue and that the Occupy was seen sort of broken their lease so they were removed from the property so there are issues like that then they they can be um dealt with could I come back Madam chairman just on the final answer you get yes no problem what time period are we talking about is this one issue over say a two or three month period or is it one issue over a year or five years or whatever since it was operating which is I'm not sure and it's it's uh more than a more than it's you know a minimum of a year yeah thank you thank you madam chair thank you counselor Fox um now councilor Cal if you liked your questions please thank you madam chair and it's really this issue about viability and a note on page 64 in reference to to um it's having limited significance in terms of its holiday setting views and Facilities Point picked up by councilor Billings and councilor Madison um are you aware of the popularity of this hotel on as was mentioned by the speaker booking.com
but also on areas like TripAdvisor where it has a five-star rating which would indicate and a lot of the comments there were very much about its fantastic location proximity to the Sea Services Town Center Etc um I haven't seen anything in any of the reports that demonstrate lack of viability so apart from the applicant's access statement what additional evidence can we look towards yes as I said previously there is a bit of conflict there because there isn't a significant amount of um evidence to suggest that it's not viable um but it's you know balancing the whole application against the local plan policies and the and the mppf but the the thought the trailer of thought was that it's a 15 bed and an extra 280 hotel rooms recently provided in The Wider area so you know considering that it would have to be considered to have limited significance just picking up on the um the type of offer and I think again the point was made about the um different offer of a hotel like the Three Palms compared to the new fragrance groups um was there any assessment done about that sort of Market comparison do we know um no other than the the two new hotels that provide a different offer one's four star ones that one's a budget so thank you councilor Cal councilor Joyce thank you chair I'd just like to know what kind of precedent would this be setting though within a tourism area taken into consideration the neighborhood plan moving forward and well every application is considered on
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