Is it possible to kill Royal Enfield? Harley Davidson X440, Triumph Speed 400

Is it possible to kill Royal Enfield? Harley Davidson X440, Triumph Speed 400

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Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello Hellooo Chalo. Chalo. Tell me, why I'm here? Why are you talking to me like this? So today's topic... That topic has been discussed many times because whenever... there is a new classic motorcycle in the country... Or....

...retro classic motorcycles. So, it is said that... the Royal Enfield... ...will be left with only counting days. They will enter the house and kill. They will enter the house and kill. This is exactly like any 7-seater.

Whether it is a monocoque, a Skoda or a Volkswagen... launched anywhere in the world That would kill Fortuner directly (as per many creators) Fortuner killer. Fortuner killer.

Creta killer. Honda City killer. So, now there'll be yet another Royal Enfield killer. So, we'll talk about that today. Even If you don't hold the mic, it'll work.

Yeah. Oh, sorry. Actually, I have a habit of singing in an orchestra. Jumme raat, raat hai aaja (a bollywood song) So, the thing is that Bajaj and Triumph are bringing two new motorcycles on the same platform one of which is speed 400 And a Scrambler 400X So, Triumph 400 Speed and Triumph 400 Scrambler X if i am not wrong, it's such a big name And Harley Davidson is also bringing his 440X with Hero But this time you are feeling something different Yeah, HERO is making the Harley this time around. It's being made in Jaipur itself Yeah, definitely! Developed in here itself! Yeah, what's the name? CIT! Center of IIT! Information Technology! Innovation Technology! Thank you.

We've kept a couple of people in our team because of this Because I'm a very good speaker! The only problem is KNOWLEDGE We just don't know the full forms. Look, Harley is brining a motorcycle, so is Triumph both with Indian manufacturers! But the problem is, Are they going to be killers or not? That's exactly what we are going to discuss today. Welcome to ICN's podcast, Cartalaap. Though the name is Car-talaap, but we'll discuss bikes today What difference does it make? What difference does it make? It's yours, you can do whatever you want. Don't sweat over it. Hahaha.

Alright, so as we said, this time it looks a bit different So let's first discuss what others failed to do Who tried to challenge the Royal Enfield directly, even though they have a legacy, legacy brands After that I will tell you what Royal Enfield has done to become so successful Right So first tell us who has tried to shake up Royal Enfield which sells bike in huge number Actually, everyone has tried, because if you talk about the 350cc segment, it's a sweet segment that easily does 35,000-40,000 units every month. And everyone will try to tap it, because it's a big market share. We saw that Bajaj, although didn't bring the classic, but the Bike that you rode at one point in time, Dominar 400 They also tried to mock Royal Enfield by calling it an elephant And then they brought a bike weighing as much It's actually heavier than that. I know, and it feels heavier than that. But the thing is, not just the segment.

The classic segment. The retro, neo, retro. Neo retro is actually quite new, but yeah the classic theme Not just people were trying to try in that. But they wanted at least someone displaces them from the 400cc segment.

Correct. I mean, the way classic 350 was selling They thought, at least we should get a little pie of that. They are selling 30-35,000 for a month.

So, at least we should get 1000. They are trying to get that point. Exactly, so Bajaj tried it, Honda tried it.

Honda tried it.... In the same style. in the same style. Exhaust is also the same. Yes, tried it in the same style. Didn't work out.

Then, Yezdi, Jawa, which were legacy brands, classic legends, They were beaten up badly. You know, its media was on, and I wasn't invited for that And I was thinking it, bike(s), would be a big deal No, no, you were there. who are you talking about? I'm talking about Java, you're talking about Yezdi. Yes, I'm talking about Yezdi. Java, Java came first. Java Java? Yes, Java Java.

So in Java Java, we also had to Java (go). We also wanted to go, but we didn't get a call. So I said, this is a big thing, maybe I'm missing it. Then after that, I rode it at a dealership.

I said, great, I didn't get an invite for this. This bike won't be able to do anything. It was Mojava, Mojava. By the way, Mojo also came from the same group.

It's a good thing. Then after that, Yezdi came Yezdi also tried their best. They tried to tapped all three segments.

Adventure and those two or three others Bobber, Bobber, all of them. Scrambler and all of them tried. Where were the problems? I think the problem is, first of all, let's talk about each brand because not all of them have a common problem. Let's talk about Honda first. Honda makes some of the finest engines for sure. But when it comes to classic motorcycling, you should be able to ride it in a laid-back way.

If I'm riding, I don't have to change gears again and again. If I'm in 2nd or 3rd gear, don't bother me. So, they have done a great job in styling, but they couldn't give that relaxed feeling. So, I think that and their dealership network. Although it was a great motorcycle, I preferred it on many parameters. But the problem was that they don't sell it in all places.

Which showroom do they sell it from? Big Wing. Secondly, the pricing is a little higher than the classic. Then if you talk about Yezdi, you've already spoken about Yezdi and Jawa The kind of quality they had, Royal Enfield used to give 15 years ago Mm-hmm. So if you are trying to compete Royal Enfield in today's date, then you have to look at the quality levels of today's Royal Only big names, icons etc won't work You can't solely sell bikes in the name of legacy and nostalgia I think one more problem with these people was that they wanted to tap the market, but Royal Enfield's brand recall was much higher as they started playing on it a long back They had already seen their failure for a long time Correct. Royal Enfield had seen their failure. Till 2000 in fact.

Yes, they were seeing their failure, they were struggling and eventually they got a chance. That even though we haven't made a very good product yet, but now the environment is favourable and people have started to buy the product. And then they were able to extract the juices. I think the overall strategy, not just the product, we started seeing the product improvement very late. Technically, you can say it was after 2010-2011.

No, but I think they had started doing some things Like, now our motorcycle will have an electric start But that too happened quite late But that too happened quite late. So it was gradually happening. Overall, I think the way they marketed it after Siddharth Lal's arrival, one thing that we have seen is that they have changed the perception of the brand. So they basically, I use this example several times So Siddharth Lal made Royal Enfield India's Harley Davidson.

Hmm, hmm, hmm. They made it an aspirational brand, a brand that everyone likes to buy. Because it has a legacy, 70s, 80s. At one time, the army used it, so that legacy is there. Then our fathers, their generation was crazy.

That we have to buy Royal Enfield, we have to buy Bullet only and nothing else.. So they made it so that even the youngsters feel that if we have to buy, then we have to buy a bike of 350cc. We have to buy a big, heavy bike.

Thank you. So they made it a brand. Like you, I think you shared this story yesterday.

How do you see Royal Enfield as? Mm-hmm. In fact, Royal Enfield call themselves a lifestyle brand. They don't say we are a motorcycle company, they say we are a lifestyle brand. We have offered you a lifestyle. If you take it, you will become a part of that lifestyle.

Where you have that feel. If we were missing you, we have also given you the colors of the army. We have also tried to give you that exclusivity. With signals, it is written on the number. This is your batch 1, this is yours, that is yours.

So it will do everything continuously. Initially, all the manufacturers were thinking that this won't work. When they saw, the game is going on.

They are earning money. what to do now? When you said that they made Harley Davidson of India. Harley Davidson is not an affordable brand for us Indians.

Exactly, that's what I was going to say. But when you go to the US, it is just slightly expensive for the US people. Same thing with Royal Enfield. Aspiration and just slightly expensive.

If you cross that barrier, you will buy a Royal Enfield. And that thing started happening. When people started spending a little more money, Royal Enfield started getting sales. Goes like a bullet.

Goes like a bullet, made like a gun. and stops at 80kmph It stops at 80kmph and starts vibrating. we have seen the problems in those old REs till quite recently No, before this platform. Before J-Platform, you could see the problem of Royal Enfield from a distance that it's leaking, this is happening, etc It marks its legacy, territory. They played it so bloody well.

It deserves a stand alone podcast. Yes, how they pulled it off. In fact, I think the first time they felt that they were being made fun is when they went overseas They were selling in India, but they went abroad. Do you remember

they did a press conference abroad. I remember they were focusing on overseas markets. Then they realized that we don't want to go far. Come back home. Although their home is in Redditch, England. But when they shifted to India, they realized that this is where the game is.

where are we going? Indians are buying most bikes in the world, Of course, and if you look at the markets, if you remove the Asian markets, China... You remove China, Indonesia and India. The bikes are gone.

The game is over. Then only a handful of markets will remain there Yes, you can increase your brand value by selling in the US and Europe. It is very useful.

But only Indians will give you the numbers. The Americans will make you the brand like they did with Harley If you come to count unit volumes, there is no game there. Absolutely. But anyway... But anyway, I think I was talking about the same thing that you said that they surely have made RE an aspirational brand They also worked on affordability factor like you said, it's only slightly pricier than regular bikes But if you look at today's scenario, they don't look as expensive And credit for that goes to the competition, and probably why they failed At the same time, they also know that what all things can fail in this bike, what all things can break, what all things can go wrong, how can it be tapped.

When they are seeing this whole process for the last 20-25 years, bearing it, and giving its solution. Now when new brands come, the first problem they face is that they will make everything. They will make everything, there will be two problems. First, where will you bring that legacy with your brand? Second, where will you bring that cost with your brand? And in the case of legacy, it's not that Jawa, Yezdi didn't have a legacy, but this generation wasn't able to connect with it.

That was the problem, the disconnect. Like you said, the pricing, the kind of pricing they were able to offer, so some were able to match the pricing, like Java, Yezdi at least matched the pricing but they weren't able to match the quality. And that too from the Royal Enfield, you didn't have a high. huge standard You didn't have a standard that you can't beat them You said that it's the people of India, they can buy anything. That was a different time, now it's a different time. Look at the current lot of products, if you talk about them.

After the J series, you'll rarely, barely hear that there are some problems. That there's a leaking issue, this and that. The engine is fantastic, very smooth, very good platform.

Then they went to the 650cc segment, they're not doing just good here in India. If you look at the European standards, they're still in top 5 for many months The top selling bike is the Royal Enfield, their 650cc twin. Then there's the Super Meteor, so they've improved one product after the other. And there are a lot of products in the pipeline. So I think if you want to compete, like I said, you have to compete with today's Royal Enfield. not with what they were 20 years old And I'll tell you one more thing now.

If you look at it overall, the way vehicles are sold, sales go up, there is a peak. There is a little stagnation on it, then it goes down. Royal Enfield has been stagnant for a long time after touching that Now they have come to the zone where they have become experimental, that try something else, otherwise sales are coming down. So in the segment, they are the only ones thinking that sales may go downwards when competition is coming there, how much sales will it be able to make, that is also important. Remember sedans, when the segment started dying, some companies started making efforts in that space So how many opportunities are there for them? But anyway, now let's talk about the new motorcycles and what's different this time! Exactly, I was going to ask that. What do you think now with

Triumph Speed and what's the other name? Okay, so Scrambler 400 and Harley Davidson 440X, what do you think will happen with them? Although we haven't seen the product yet. Whatever we have seen, we will talk about it later. Although we are going to launch and unveil in a few days and you will hear the same headline that Royal Enfield is a killer. We are starting with that. Again, it's some shrewdness.

You are going. Yes. I'm going for 440. I'm going for 440 most likely.

You'll get to know, but tell me now. I like the fact that Harley Davidson is starting to look at the growing market. Because they are sitting with the brand value, but quarter after quarter, if you are continuously declining, so you have to think a lot, what will you do with the brand value. Till the time the brand value is there, the product is selling And in the US, the classic case with them is that, usually it was 30-40s, like I am a successful guy, Mm.

sort of successful, I am settled and all of that, I have a family, I want to chill on weekends The people who used to chill on weekends, they used to go to Harley Davidson. Now those people couldn't transfer the tradition to the new generation. The new generation is different, they probably look at things very differently. So that couldn't happen, so you will see that their retention was also very bad. So that was one reason, but this time finally they felt that at least make volumes and they are in India.

And they, I think both the brands, Triumph and Harley, they did one thing, they collaborated with the Indian local manufacturer, and they are not local manufacturers, they are known manufacturers. So when Hero and Harley come together, they come together, so first of all it builds trust, second, if you have to achieve a feasible production cost to price them really well, that will also be a help. And second, I think, Even recently when they are coming in the 400-450cc segment, they know that they can't play with the quality like this Because they are making good 350cc motorcycles, Royal Enfield, and selling them in other markets Exactly! So, they are not playing with the quality In fact, they have entered many of their core markets. Right, right, right, so that's the thing and with Triumph we have seen, so far they haven't made any compromises in terms of quality including their recently launched 660cc bike And I hope and wish they maintain the same even after Bajaj JV I think both the brands have one strong point Harley has the legacy connect that the other brands were missing People are relating and they know what Harley Davidson is On the other hand, people won't be able to feel the legacy connect with Triumph On the other hand, people won't be able to feel the legacy connect with Triumph but... But they know that they make quality, shiny, good looking motorcycles So, there are two strong points But But will these two strong points work for them? And will they be able to sort other things with their Indian Partners Like Triumph Bajaj and Harley Hero That they have kept the cost and the quality is decent Now sell on the sentiment Will they be able to do it or not? Let's talk about a segment, basically if you talk about a segment of 400cc, so technically we have a 350cc segment which Royal Enfield owns, and in that segment they have complete dominance We have 350cc, but both of them have the bragging right that we are giving a bigger engine.

Hmm. Say for example Harley Davidson is giving you an above 400cc engine, and Triumph is offering you an almost 400cc engine So both of them have the advantage of cubic capacity, that we are giving you a more powerful engine, because both are powerful. Till now we don't know the numbers of Harley Davidson, but easily you can say it would be 40hp, 40Nm, 35-40Nm or 42Nm, And we already know about Triumph that they are already saying that we are giving 40PS and torque of 37.5Nm. So they have the numbers, they have the bigger cubic capacity, and like you said Harley Davidson has a legacy as well.

I hope they price it really well, because you will be able to create a difference in 50cc segment only when people will understand the value of giving 50cc extra. Where I am getting the RE Hunter for about 1.8 lacs (ex-showroom) I can offer an extra sum of Rs 25,000-30,000 for more power It's not possible that you will ask for 80k extra, we are launching it for 3 lakhs, now buy it. Now that will be another failure, you might do well in some other markets, but not in India. Exactly, exactly. And which brings me to the other point that

they are not only thinking of selling in India. They want to export from India by using our manufacturing expertise Right. They have their own challenges. UK, Europe, USA.

People have purchasing power. People ride occasionally They don't have to have bikes necessarily. Right.

This is one problem. So, these are the different challenges there. After that, if you go to Indonesia, Thailand and these markets, there is a different type of biking happening here. Correct. Correct. Which they may not understood yet for a long time.

So, there are different challenges. For them, the most important thing is that at least where they are manufacturing, they should sell it properly. Also, it's the biggest market too for them in that sense.

They have chosen partners in the right country. Because India is still quite big in manufacturing. Although the bike market is up and down with Indonesia. But in manufacturing, Indonesia does not give us much competition.

So there they have chosen the right market and players. And another good reason to choose players is that if you talk about both these players, especially Bajaj, Bajaj is doing phenomenally well in some of these big markets. You must have heard about Africa, where they have completely wiped out thousands of Chinese companies, together with Bajaj and TVS So they know the markets, the growing markets, whether it's South America, basically Latin America and all these markets, Bajaj is very strong in the network as well. When you said it, I remembered one more thing.

TVS and BMW are also in a partnership. Absolutely. I hope they don't bring that in the future their small capacity classic motorcycle You have brought up a very good point, BMW for example, I think Lalit reminded us, BMW G310RR and Apache RR310, basically same bikes with different names and liveries Part to part, component to component, when you compare, we were talking about Sprocket, where one brand is giving you for Rs. 3000, one brand is giving you Rs. 4000, one brand is giving you Rs. 7000, if you are coming to play this game, then don't play this game.

Yes, rebranding it and selling it at a high price just for the brand name. That we want to earn on BMW You should of course But at a reasonable level At one time you launched at a blinding price Then you relaunched and did the right pricing But even after that the after sales experience Because a person who buys a 350cc or 400cc bike all of a sudden won't become Your typical Harley buyer Or typical Triumph buyer Or typical BMW buyer won't become If you look at it globally, BMW comes from a perspective where people think that this is a touring bike. This is a good touring bike. Right.

In India, half the people don't even know about it. So first make them understand the sentiment. That's right. Then stick it to them. Right. Both are not possible.

I mean, you have to play with it. A guy like me, for example, if I am a college goer, or I have just joined a job, my actual ability is to buy a bike of 200-250cc. I went a little ahead, I said, let's buy a bike of 350cc, because the pricing will come close, It will be a bit more of a loan for me.

and I will get a little more loan. But then when I went to get it serviced, in my circle, that bike is finished. See, my salary is 40,000 rupees. Now you say that your cost, repair cost, all these things, you have to go for 10,000-15,000 rupees. So, Jai Ram Ji. And I remember I used to get emails from a lot of people, I am from Asansol, I am from a remote area, not really remote area, Asansol is not even among remotest areas But BMW was tapping big cities, that we will only stay in cities like Kolkata, Delhi, Mumbai, etc Then your actual buyer who is riding a regular bike and has some money, he is not sitting there.

The successful Royal Enfield that you are seeing, they were not made by Tier 1 cities You will never see a bullet in Tier city, roamting here and there Roaming + Ghumti hui (Hindi word for it) = Roamting Ha ha ha ha ha ha! Roamting is my copyright, no one will use it. Roamta Yogi Roamta Yogi Anyway Lalit is still laughing, hahahahaha So you won't see such a moving bike there. But in tier 2 cities and villages, the craze for the bike was crazy Especially bullet was like... So that's where the legacy started. So all those things are there. It's a complex market. But I genuinely see these two companies if they fix the pricing, I think they can have a good start.

Like you said Harley has a legacy, if the pricing is right and they have the right partner, they can do wonders in this market And Triumph, I think they have, at least among the urban people, both the brands can get a lot of popularity. But yeah, these are the things in this video. I hope you liked the video. I wanted to talk about it randomly. Is it another failure from the brands? What do we think? That's it. That's it. Thank you from my side. Wear a helmet, wear a seatbelt, drive safe, Thank you Keep roamting, there's no problem.

"Where are you roamting?" (That's how our moms used to call us) I was getting a call from mom, let me talk to her. I'm going.

2023-07-12 05:49

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