CIO Leadership Live with THL Chief Technology Jo Hilson

CIO Leadership Live with THL Chief Technology Jo Hilson

Show Video

hello and welcome to CIO leadership live New  Zealand I'm Kathy O'Sullivan the editorian   chief for CIO in Asia Pacific and I'm delighted  to welcome my guest today Joe Hilson who is the   chief technology officer at tourism Holdings  Limited Joe was recognized as part of our cio50   in 2022 for the work she and her team are doing  at THL she has more than 20 years experience   across a wide range of industries from startups  to multi-million dollar market leaders both here   in New Zealand and in the UK welcome Joe hi Kathy  thank you for having me oh great to have you great   to catch up with you again and so for those of um  those watching who don't really know a lot about   THL can you tell us a little bit more about the  organization and what you and your team do there   yeah sure so tourism Holdings Limited so we are  a tourism company and we actually operate quite   widely so we're in New Zealand we're in Australia  the USA UK Ireland Germany and Canada so um part   of what we do is we provide Camper vans and RVs  for rent and sale and you'll recognize some of   their brands like Maui Brits in Australia we've  got a polo hippie just go and bunk through the UK   our Monte Winnebago and Kia just to name a few we  also design and manufacture the camper vans so we   do that across New Zealand and Australia and some  specialist Vehicles as well so the likes of the   same John's ambulance we build that and we've also  got the operation for discover waitomo so that's   your caves the black water rafting the waitomo  homestead and finally we have kiwi experience   bus tours so we're quite a diverse tourism company  which is great so for me in my role it's Global   and and my teams are accountable for a number  of things we build our own products so our Fleet   Management System our telematics products and we  also have the accountability around cyber security   data I.T operations across the globe supporting  all of our staff and yeah quite a lot actually   busy times and with the recent merger with Apollo  at the end of last year it's um even busier so   really exciting wow a huge variety there I didn't  realize everything from ambulances to caves you   look after a huge massive role and now you have  worked in in various Industries as we said from   the age you know from Health to insurance and  now tourism so can you tell us a bit more about   um I guess transformation and and how it has taken  shape in your career it's often you know it is a   buzzword you know a lot of people say they're  transforming but you know and and like it's   just a dumb thing it's just easy but it's not an  easy thing to do so can you talk us through kind   of how transformation has taken shape throughout  your career yeah and it's interesting you know if   I think back even 10 years ago there was this  conscious approach to we are transforming and   you're right it was that key buzzword and that  word would appear on all of our strategies and   transformation programs would be set up and roles  would be created with transformation in the title   and sometimes if you had a budget big enough you'd  be Consulting one of the big consulting firms   so you know there was a significant sense of  importance that came with that and a massive   expectation that you were going to be creating  some fundamental change and and Magic I guess   um because of the volume of people involved  and the sheer size that it grew to be   but it didn't actually always turn out that way  and in my experience it a lot of the times it   just got too big and went off tangent when  you're trying to transform because you lost   sight of what it was that we were trying to do  and it became complicated and expensive so you   know as the years have progressed I've noticed a  lot more reduced Transformations you know we're   not trying to change the world we're trying to  you know keep it within a reality of what we can   achieve and deliver in less time as well so for  me it's changed significantly and I I don't really   call things transformation anymore it's just that  continuous Improvement so a massive shift from the   Great Big Bang all into actually just make this  part of BAU and I think that's something that's   really important because a it takes the pressure  off and it keeps it more realistic as well   that's a very interesting approach you know taking  it back to you know the Simplicity of what you're   trying to do so what do you think are some of  the kind of key steps cios must take along the   way even if they are looking at transformation  from that business Improvement point of view is   there ever kind of something that will kick  off you know a change within an organization   yeah I think there's things that could kick it  off it could be the CEO's Got A Plan and there's   something new coming or you know at the end of  the day it's just you're planning for the next   financial year or The Current financial year I  think what's important as a CIO no matter what   the circumstances is that you are able to Define  that North Star you know why are we doing it what   are we doing where are we heading to so that  Clarity is really important and it needs to   be aligned to your strategy so when I'm talking  about transformation and that North Star I'm also   you know giving the same message that my CEO would  be giving in regards to validating validating that   strategy so definitely that understanding why  we're doing it and where we're heading and then   it's easier for me and everyone else in that role  to kind of enable people to come on that Journey   so another big part of that is to remember it's  not always technology you know there's more than   technology there's people in process with any  sort of transformation as well so making sure   that that big picture awareness and thinking is  constantly there is super super critical you know   coming back to the earlier question around  those Transformations we made it very quick   about technology in those days and that was a big  mistake so having the roles and those reminders of   Who's involved in that transformation and was  also really vital as part of the the journey   so you know any change can be hired regardless  of of your role or or regardless of your   organization so what's been your strategy  for dealing with challenges when they   um pop up you know whether it is people whether it  is Legacy systems or constrained budgets what are   some some of those kind of common roadblocks  that come up when you're implementing these   Transformations and how do you avoid them or  I guess and help them along on the way there   answer your plan and you know the better the plan  the better you can manage a lot of those blockers   or be aware or prepare for them and of course you  know a plan's as good as the information you have   and the people that are involved in and telling  you the story and the dependencies or impacts   so you know for me to have a good plan is to know  who needs to be involved to help create that plan   and again it comes back to it's always more than  technology if you've only got a technology team   involved in transformation you're likely going to  fail because the change is going to be impacting   somewhere else whether it's processed people so  make sure you are really clear on who needs to   be involved in that plan so that you can bring  them on that journey I think that's definitely   one thing and then part of that is the other end  so you know you've obviously got to a point where   you've delivered that transformation but how's  that change management been you know managed as   well is it effective are we able to manage that  resistance and then that business Readiness   support that comes with it as well so you know  for me the challenges are absolutely right you   always got Legacy and budget I think they're  kind of a no-brainer and expected in any any   transformation program to work but it's actually  focused on a really good plan and the people that   need to be involved make sure you've got some good  change management practices and also your business   Readiness because at the end of the day you want  to just support the teams along the way when you   roll out and you go live and you're holding  their hands through to the end I love that   yeah that there's business business Readiness and  making sure you're not setting it up for a failure   um so you mentioned earlier that you like to see  transformation as you know continuous Improvement   part of ba you with that approach then how  do you manage change fatigue both internally   within your team but also you know within the  wider organization you've been through a lot of   change at TH and particularly with the merger now  so how do you manage that you've got to find time   for rest rest and Recovery is like sports it's  kind of like you've got your A game you're a   game your A game but to your point there's fatigue  and we're humans right so we've really got to make   sure that we're thinking about that well-being  component of their crew because they can't operate   at this level you know 24x7 there's going to be  some sort of consequence and I definitely don't   want that you know I want to make sure there's  a well-balanced approach so again it comes back   to planning and it comes back to opportunity to  make sure that I'm encouraging my teams to take   some time out but at the same time I've created a  transformation program or a continuous Improvement   you know whatever I'm calling it opportunity  where there is an end and they've actually got   to a place where they've gone ah I've achieved  something you know so they're getting that   recognition as well for themselves you know we're  all humans we all like to say great I feel good   I've achieved something I've learned something  from it so it's a combination really of making   sure that we're getting you know small bites of  recognition and value that's come out of it and   then when they have been going at those longer you  know term sort of Transformations and some of them   can go on for over a year we're really focusing  on that time out for them that time to kind of   breathe relax even if it's a holiday you know  they might not have been able to take a break in   that time because obviously time time frames or  deadlines whatever it might be it's just really   bringing it back to them and their well-being and  the opportunity to recover and listening to okay   are you ready for the next challenge or is there  something else that's going on because there's   always BAU and other projects in my world so  there's more more than one opportunity where they   can also give their view on hey yeah I'm ready  for this next big program of work or actually I'd   like to try something else so really listening and  being mindful of of the crew because you know they   are the ones that are going to be driving that  delivery and we and we need to look after them   so for me it's definitely around that absolutely  and I guess working in a tourism related business   as well you see all those beautiful pictures like  the one in your background there of uh beautiful   New Zealand and other markets that you serve I'm  sure that um makes people think about their own   holidays as well and so uh speaking of buzzwords  another buzzword that's you know that that comes   up is AI it seems like a day doesn't go by that  people aren't chatting about chat gbt and Dally   e and all of the other generative AI tools that  are emerging so what role do you see for AI in   the tourism industry you know is it something  that you see Valley for in your organization   absolutely I I think every organization should see  value in Ai and you know whether we like it or not   IAT AI I should say is part of our environment you  know I see it naturally occurring through some of   the software that we already have and I'll get an  upgrade and ah yeah we've got this new AI feature   in it and you know to your point jet chat GPT it's  just like just being used so much more and um you   know for me the value is the reality is with my  teams there's so much work there's absolutely   so much work that we can't always focus on the  Innovation and the opportunity for automation   so when something like this comes along I'm like  seizing the opportunity because it can take us so   much further you know the one thing that I do want  to balance though is I want AI machine learning to   be a compliment to my team not a replacement and  so that's the area that I'm still really trying to   figure out well how do I manage that and how you  know how is it effectively really going to occur   but for me right now you know for example we've  just done a replacement data warehouse and some   of the key drivers on the decision was that AI  machine learning capability because it's an area   that we just haven't touched on a lot and it's  an area that will drive a lot of value you know   data is everything for us and by the size of  our company and obviously the variety of the   different tourism components there's just so many  opportunities that we just can't get to alone   because of everything else that we're focusing  on so for me it's something that's definitely   going to be top of Mind in the next financial year  we've already made some decisions on some software   to implement and where it takes us you know 12  months after that I'm excited by um and I'm even   excited just to see it in air day-to-day living  you know outside of the organization the one thing   though that does concern me about AI is you know  because it's developing so quickly and maturing   that humans will get lazy and stupid so that's why  you know I'm coming back to the whole it's there   to support us so we still put a lot of emphasis  on ourselves as humans to do the work in parallel   yeah absolutely it's a fasting fascinating area  and who knows this time 12 months where we will   be with that and so Joe um tell me how do you  um influence and collaborate with you know both   your leadership team that you sit on and The Wider  organization how do you and what ways do you work   with them as as Chief technology officer so I'm  a real people person so put me in a room and I'll   talk to anybody I love talking socializing and  and connecting with people so for me um forming   relationships is key so that I can influence we  are physically located in a different building   to the majority of the business um in Auckland so  that also makes it a lot more difficult because I   don't have that regular interaction and of course  covert has seen a lot more people working from   home anyway so for me to build relationships  is absolutely critical so I will look for every   opportunity that I can and whether that's a zoom  call or whether that's going out to the branches   to see people or going across to head office as  often as I can it's really important so that I'm   seen and people get to know me um and then on  top of that what I also do is you know a lot   of emails I send out a lot of company-wide emails  just on updates about things that are going on so   more and more people are from familiar and more  importantly with my teams you know the key thing   is that I'm constantly able to say hey we're here  and we're demonstrating value and this is what   we've delivered this time and this is the impact  that it's it's going to have on you and your team   so mainly through that relationship building I'm  getting that influence and then I'm ensuring that   my teams are also doing that and we're able to  constantly demonstrate value which gets hard   when we're a company the size that we are because  you can't please everybody but then I can at least   also be having those conversations which are  hey you know you're not doing we're not giving   you this this time round but we will look at  planning you know in the future or maybe we want   to think about our work around so just keeping  those connections open and that communication   open but also making it wider than just my my  executive team you know I love learning more   about the business and who's in the business  and those key roles and those people as well   now you mentioned the coveted word earlier and  it has changed you know a lot about how we work   but it has also brought technology into shark  Focus for a lot of organizations and of course   tourism was one of the industries really badly  hit by the pandemic so how do you think the role   of the CIO has changed since you know we were  all locked down and until to go home foreign I   think there's a lot more pressure on us to trust  because we don't see the people as much as we you   know once would have and you know I can even say  that within my own teams we have a policy where   um it's two days in the office and three days  from home so you're no longer in the position   where you're seeing them on a regular basis five  days a week understanding you know how the effort   is so there's this massive trust expectation on us  to go Yep they're at home and they're still doing   a great job and and turning things out and I think  that's you know that's a big shift it's actually   a really big shift because you know physically  seeing something versus kind of going oh yeah I   can imagine that's going on a vastly different so  you know I personally have seen a lot of change in   me and going yep okay great they're doing what  they've got to do and if I'm seeing the output   I'm happy I think that's one thing and then the  other part is you know and I touched on it before   is well-being is huge it's absolutely huge because  it's no longer nine to five and it's actually okay   not to be nine to five but then that does have  impacts on people's lives and their well-being   because obviously they're at home and so there's  a lot of other things going on so being aware of   that and being able to respond and have those  support mechanisms in place as well so it's   quite interesting I kind of feel as a CTO it's  not so much about hey we've got the right tools   and you've got learning opportunities it's like  actually I'm looking after you in a how's your   health and are you taking time out so a lot more  of that softer side and that empathy coming out   um is more more important or just as important  this day and age with the pandemic and it'll be   interesting to see if it changes with companies  with people swinging back into the office more   um watching that space that's for sure yeah  yeah it's changing all the time isn't that   so just expanding a bit further on that and  you know you mentioned that empathy piece   and really you know caring for your team are  there any other kind of key attributes that   you think are you know really key for a successful  modern day CIO or CTO when it comes to leadership   I think it's probably any sort of leader not  necessarily just the cios and cpos is that   self-awareness you know it's constantly being as  authentic as you can you know you want to drive a   passion you want to drive an excitement you want  to remain positive at the end of the day I'm also   working from home and I don't get you know the  teams don't get to see me on certain days you   know there's a lot going on in everyone's world  it's kind of like actually everyone's well you   know at times people can be a lot more stressed  there's a lot more deadlines all happening at   once so for me it's just making sure that I still  remain aware even though I'm physically removed   I'm still aware that you know that may be going  on so it's really important they I stay close to   my leadership team and that they're keeping me  in the loop and they're feeling comfortable and   con you know confident that they can speak  to me about that I think the other thing is   you know around promoting that inclusion so again  physically not seeing them but when opportunities   come up don't forget them and continue to promote  inclusion with any new initiatives that may come   my way I mean in my job in particular there's  always change there's always new initiatives   um Coming there's a lot of unplanned work so um  you know remembering that I've got a wider team   I've got teams not only just based in New Zealand  they're around the globe so making sure that   inclusion is consistent and making sure I'm timing  those catch-ups you know where it's obviously   going to be you know as much as possible suitable  for everybody to dial in so yeah I think it's   definitely around that self-awareness promoting  that inclusion and maintaining that passion are   really key attributes of a modern day CIO and like  I said any leader actually yeah absolutely and   look you've touched on some of this already but  you know when it comes to that internal culture   what kind of things are you doing you know to help  people feel like they really belong at THL and you   know that they are achieving those personal and  professional goals no matter what their role is   so this year I um purposely put  in budgets for training so we have   um you know with with the pandemic obviously a  lot of it was was cost cutting but there's just   so many advancements in technology and also in  regards to my teams I want them to cross learn   and under and have opportunities to learn maybe  other areas that they would consider moving into   um you know one of the things the pandemic  did was we lost a lot of our staff and as a   consequence of that everyone's replaced now but  I'm like okay I want to make sure that you're   feeling that you're getting growth and you're  getting opportunities and that doesn't always   just mean you're going to be a junior developer  an intermediate intermediate developer a senior   developer it's like you might want to go into  data and insights you might want to look at   architecture you might want to look at project  management you know the roles are extremely wide   so I've provided the training opportunities as  someone in my position I get invited to a lot of   seminars and opportunities you know in the last  year there's been heaps so if these tickets I'll   always say does anyone in the team want to go  here's a good opportunity to get out and meet   some new people hear from different perspectives  and then with the restructure so after covert   when we lost a lot of our team and when we built  them up it gave me the opportunity to have more   of a even spread of capability so we were very  top heavy very top heavy and there's not a lot   of room for everyone to go you know you can't all  be CIO so it gave me a great opportunity to bring   in you know grads and juniors and intermediates so  we've got a really balanced team now of capability   which is great because you're all learning from  each other there's different perspectives and   that's been super helpful for for their personal  growth from kpi point of view we always make sure   we have your personal growth opportunities as well  as the business driven ones as well so you know a   massive focus on that and as an organization you  know it's a really important important part for us   so not only just in technology but for all roles  throughout throughout DHL so I get a lot of that   support from the rest of my executive team and  obviously those those initiatives that they run   now Joe you're one of very few female ctOS and  cios that um I've had the opportunity to to speak   with and you know I really enjoy listening to the  perspective of women in senior leadership team   in senior leadership roles sorry so can you  tell us a bit more about what attracted you   to technology and what kind of practical things  do you think can be done to attract more women   and people from other diverse backgrounds you know  whether it be neurodiversity or you know different   ethnicities how do we get a better reflection of  the New Zealand that we live in in roles in it   great question um my career funnily enough  started when I moved into a flat in the UK   and it was full of databased analysts and  accountants and my mum was an accountant   so I'm like no I definitely don't want to go  down that route I've seen what she does so   um they encouraged me to take my skills and  so I had been working in marketing before I   left New Zealand and part of marketing is a lot  of people will know is that constant change and   so I would be testing all the systems to make  sure that all the changes had gone through onto   the systems and and I'd be signing them off  so unbeknown to me they're like well that's   what a tester does so my career started by moving  into this flat and then then you know recognizing   that actually I've had some experience with  testing writing a CV and you know away I went   um being in the UK at the time of Y2K also  helped because there was just jobs everywhere   um you know you recall it was just Panic stations  all around the world so I was very fortunate and   the first job that I got was testing and then it  kind of evolved from that to an I.T help desk and   then it went from that to business analyst and  came back to New Zealand and studied and did   development and networking and web design and and  pretty much tried every role that I possibly could   along the way um and so and I loved it and when I  was at University there was only me and one other   female and a lot of my IT classes and I remember  at the time loving that fact oh this is great you   know I'm different and but I absolutely enjoy it  and I think I learned it is not always coding you   know the one thing that university did for me and  all that all that job experience was there's just   so many different jobs and it's funny because  even this day and age you know I'll talk to my   friends and they say I'll say that on an I.T and  they just think oh you do everything no I don't   do everything most of them think I can fix the  Broadband but it's like no I don't do everything   um I've tried a lot of things but it doesn't mean  I'm good at them and I think this is the key and   I think the key when I think about my daughters  who are at school is school it's absolutely got   to start at school and as and I mean primary  school and I don't mean High School I mean   primary school because technology is absolutely  necessary and it's not hard it's got a lot easier   and there's a lot more variety and opportunities  for children with different capabilities strengths   and personalities and I don't think they know  that enough and there's still this fear that   oh you've got to be an absolute Wizard or this  you know the smartest person in the world and   that's the only way that you can get into it  and don't get me wrong there's lots of smart   people and wizards but actually there's lots of  creative and Arty people and just people that love   to deliver or people that just are curious that  also would do well in I.T and so I truly believe   if the school curriculum made it as normal as  possible and educated us or the children more   on the opportunities we would not lose a lot  of the opportunities that we don't get through   through New Zealand because you know by the time  you get to high school you might get the token   class that you can attend otherwise you're really  reliant on having money to go to a university or   a Polytech to learn the skill which is a shame and  not everyone can afford that so I truly believe if   schools in the early years put more emphasis on  the curriculum and made it as normal as possible   we'd have a lot better chance of improving that  diversity and having you know greater sense of   even females or whatever you are you know in it  but without that I still believe it's it's deemed   too hard you need to be super super intelligent  when the reality is no you just need to have   a passion for it and an interest and here's all  the opportunities does any of this you know look   attractive in one way or another you know my  daughter I've got a daughter who's year 12 and   she's got a fabulous opportunity to come and have  some cyber security experience for term two as   part of a work experience program and her teacher  said to her oh I didn't think that would be your   thing and my response was based on what you know  so there's still a lot of that faculty out there   and it's really disappointing because I absolutely  absolutely love working in it I you know like you   said it's been 20 plus years we'll just call it  there and you know the variety and the diversity   of the people that I get to meet you know the just  the general passion and abilities and capabilities   it's it's it's a fantastic environment and you  know like I said I've been very fortunate to   work in many many different roles and it's been  fantastic and I wish everybody else got to see   that and and and not turn a blind eye you know  prematurely because they just haven't really been   given the opportunity or the guidance about you  know from people around them to take it to that   next level absolutely yeah gosh what disappointing  uh feedback from from your children's teacher   um hopefully we can change that so you  know for for people who are already in   I.T and you know do aspire to be a CIO  or a CTO what advice would you give them

thank you time um you know a lot of the grads  and a lot of the new entrants into it all want   to be a CIO and I'm like I get that completely  great you know you're driven but look around like   get to know where it exists um you know in like I  mentioned earlier my team I've got Data Insights   architecture digital delivery I've got Enterprise  I've already said Enterprise architecture I've got   so many opportunities business analysts project  managers take your time and try the other areas   you know get a rounded holistic View and  experience in it don't just focus on that   one area because it's fascinating you know cyber  security no one thought they'd want a job in that   you know 10 12 years ago can't get into it fast  enough it's just amazing how it's also growing   and enhancing and so for me the advice would be  don't go on a straight line don't have a career in   a straight line where you think it's just straight  to the CIO try and explore and experience would be   my my advice great advice and so you know you've  you've had quite a busy time with the merger and   you know we're facing some some pretty hefty  economic headwinds this year so can you tell us   what's important to you in the months ahead yeah  so um with the merger so with the Apollo teams   we've brought them in we've all combined as one  company bringing systems together as one which is   keeping us all very busy and new transformation  opportunities so for me it's really going to be   learning how two companies operate better as one  and how those ways of working can improve so I'm   a massive believer of continually improving the  way that we operate within my own teams so as I   mentioned with all of those different roles it's  kind of like it can get noisy and complex and   who's doing what so I'm going to be focusing  on the teams and how we can improve and you   know provide a lot more to obviously the bigger  company that we have now and and globally reaching   um as one company and I'm quite excited so we've  got a lot of planning that's about to kick off   and deciding what our strategy is going to be from  a technology point of view for the new Financial   year and then what those priorities are also going  to be so AI is definitely on near automation but   um you know just able to nail that down and learn  a lot more about the new team that have that's   joined us and yeah keep us busy and no doubt the  12 months will fly by absolutely and hopefully   you'll have time for an old campervan trip  along the way definitely your health and chief   technology officer at tourism Holdings Limited  thank you so much for your time today thanks Kathy

2023-05-01 04:33

Show Video

Other news