Todd Brown - This Unusual Method Gets You New Clients | Big Picture Business Podcast EP #60
Todd Brown: I think a lot of people are looking for resources instead of being resourceful I can't even fathom that idea of like, I don't know how to turn this thing into a PNG. Are you serious? Dominica Lumazar: Welcome everyone to another episode of The Big Picture business podcast and I am just I'm overwhelmed with joy to chat with our amazing guest today. Todd Brown is here you guys, can you believe it? Hi, Rory. Hi, Todd. Todd Brown: Hey, I am thrilled to be here. I'm super excited to
be with you guys hanging out chatting, talking marketing, and so I'm sure this is gonna be a blast. Dominica Lumazar: We're gonna have so much fun. His bio is so wildly impressive. I'm just gonna read it to you guys, because I don't want to miss a thing. You're ready. Here we go. Todd Brown is considered the number one authority on engineering profitable customer acquisition campaigns and the creator of the renowned e five method. He is truly one of the
most sought after marketing experts. Other experts go to when they need help with their businesses with clients in over 64 Different countries operating over 71 different mass and niche markets. Todd has helped his students engineer more six and seven figure marketing campaigns than any other expert online today. Todd Brown: I am so uncomfortable with the intro portion of these kinds of episodes. It is very day. It's just like, oh, gosh, it sounds so much more impressive than what I really bring to the table. Dominica Lumazar: You're a humble man. I mean through it
through. Rory Carruthers: Here's the thing, you're changing lives, you're changing people's businesses helping them right. So at the same time, you have to be able to share anyone who's got some credibility that they need to share. A lot of times they don't want to put it out there at least you're willing to even if it is uncomfortable. Todd Brown: Oh, goodness. Well, yeah, I mean, I think look, it
is humbling that all of us, you know, the three of us get to impact lives. We just happen to do it through marketing and the entrepreneurial journey. But what excites me is seeing the the mom the dad, the family, who has the time now has the autonomy, you know, is just able to do the things or live the lifestyle that they want, you know, something small, maybe that they learned from me and so it's incredibly humbling. Dominica Lumazar: That's what it's all about. Truly, wait, I want to know more about your backstory. Like where did you come from? I think you're from New Jersey.
Todd Brown: Yes. Can you believe it? Like anything like positive come out of New Jersey, but yeah, every now and then something slips out. I grew up in New Jersey, I'm now in South Florida in West Palm Beach wife, two daughters, both in college just dropped my younger daughter off in in her dorm, you know, moved her in. And so I like to say that up until moments ago, I was in the fetal position. Ironically, I went to school for
clinical nutrition. And then I went into the fitness industry and I worked for a company that had multiple upscale health clubs in New Jersey, and I was ultimately responsible for the personal training department. So I was put in charge of this department managing lots of people across multiple facilities, teaching them how to market and sell personal training services to grow the department and I was ultimately paid off of the revenue that we brought in at the time, I knew nothing about you know, marketing advertising, I really thought that they were the same thing. And then one day, I get a postcard in the mail, long form copy offering this marketing and sales system for fitness professionals. And so I asked my boss I said, Hey, can I expense this was like 300 bucks or something like that. That was my first exposure to direct
response marketing, long form copy the idea of salesmanship in print to show you how long ago this was. It was big binders cassette tapes, like right there are people that are going to hear this watch this that are like what are cassette tapes, right, these were cassette tapes, and I absolutely just fell in love. I became enamored with this idea of being able to craft a message one time that would move somebody to buy and then be able to kind of use that over and over with hundreds 1000s of people. So I implemented it in the facilities and my department over time had to make certain tweaks to fit our style and our facilities. Just a short while later my department became the poster child we were the shining star in the entire company grew this division of the company to over $3 million a year relying on direct response marketing, and then ultimately selling if you will, and then I got hit by the entrepreneurial bug and I wanted to share what it is that I had learned what I was kind of doing and develop. I chose massage therapists. I didn't want to do anything in the fitness industry
because I didn't want there to be a conflict of interest with my current employer. And so I packaged up something very similar in style, home study thing, cassette tapes, all this you know diskette and I began sharing it with massage therapists and helping massage therapists grow and then it led to working with chiropractors and then eventually it transformed into working with entrepreneurs from lots of different verticals, coaches, consultants, agency owners that sort of thing, which kind of led me to where I am today? Wow, wow, crazy journey like, crazy. I tell everybody, you know, I started at the time my kids were like newborns, you know, they were 17 months apart. Like, I think I had one my older daughter at the time newborn, I started with 850 bucks of my own money I use that I already remember like filing a corporation like, you know, crazy stuff and never had to invest another dime of my own money into the business, everything that I just reinvested the money that we were making back into just learning, growing, developing the business. I think I did that for over a year where I didn't take a dime. And I was working it early in the morning, late at night weekends, just so desperately wanted the autonomy.
That's really what I wanted. Like I was after the autonomy, the money was never the primary driver. For me, it was really initially it was I just wanted to wake up when I wanted to take lunch when I want to take vacation when I wanted. And so that was the the driver made a lot of mistakes along the way, kind of learned a lot of what not to do what doesn't work. And
yeah, it's been a heck of a ride. Dominica Lumazar: I love that you said that money wasn't the main driver. I feel like that's a very common theme with successful entrepreneurs like all of us. I know like for Rory for myself, and I'll learning from you. It wasn't the driver. It was I want my own schedule that want to wake up and I want to wake up, I want to play with my daughter. I don't want to be on somebody else's schedule. I think that's an important piece
to the entrepreneurial spirit. Yeah, I Todd Brown: totally agree with you. I think I don't want to call it a red flag. Because right, there's no judgment, I think everybody is motivated, you know, in their own way, by whatever it is. But you know, when folks are really just looking to make money, it just opens you up to do things that, you know, you probably shouldn't do say things that you probably shouldn't say promise things that you really shouldn't probably promise it exposes you to things that lead down a not so good path. Rory Carruthers: Yeah, the transition that you went through from employee to entrepreneur, most people just want to drop everything and just become the entrepreneur. And they forget
that while it takes a while to build a business, right? Yeah, for me, like, I know, I went through an internal struggle with working other jobs where it was, I remember this one time very clearly where I was going to a job interview, and I had such a bad panic attack, because I knew it wasn't something I should be doing that I could not go to the interview because I was shaking so much, right? Yeah, yeah. And I think people get into those those spots where they're like, Oh, I just can't do this anymore. But then they forget that Well, life moves while you're still growing the business and you're reinvesting in order to grow rapidly. If you could talk a little bit about that. What was that year period like for you, when you were trying to navigate being an employee and an entrepreneur at the same time, Todd Brown: I can very much relate to, you know, to what it is that you share to your, to your experience in that at first, when I got bit by the entrepreneurial bug, what I really got bit by was like, let me see if what it is that I've done inside the health clubs would translate over, you know, to other industries, like let me I just wanted to almost put myself to the tasks. And so initially, I wasn't even thinking like, you know, I'm done with my job. I'm now
stepping out into my into my own gig. It didn't start that way for me. But then as this side thing started to grow, I was like, wow, there is a real opportunity here. And so I began to it's kind of funny, I began to talk to my dad, who was an entrepreneur, I started to ask him, like, when is the right time to leave the job because I was you know, I'm, I still am very conservative. Like, I'm just very conservative, you
know, to me, like 50 bucks, 100 bucks, 100 bucks, like, I don't care how much money like, to me, it's still money. And so I was like, when do you know? Like, how do you know when the time is right? He just said to me, he was like, you'll know, which is a strange piece of advice. And when he gave me that I was like, that's the best advice you've got, like, I'll just know, you don't have a formula, you don't have something like, that's the best you got. I just kept working. I wanted to give my all
to my employer because that's what they deserved from me. I would work early in the morning, late at night, I made sure that it never interfered with my job. And then I knew like I just felt in my gut now is the time that I'm going to make this leap and I was terrified. And so when people are nervous, rightly so you should be because there's a lot on the line. You know, I also recognized that it's not about the absence of fear, but you don't wait for a time when you're never nervous or never afraid. You're going to have to act you're gonna have to step out in face of that fear despite that fear and move forward. I
think that being an entrepreneur in general no matter how big you get, no matter how successful you got, no matter how much money you make, there's always moments of fear it's a matter of do you succumb to that fear or do you step out in spite of that fear but I did it and it was it was great. I'll actually tell you very very quickly this story that my team loves when I share I'll make this very quick. I used to wear this button down logoed shirt every day we had this you know uniform for like you know Dockers and these different colored button down shirts with the logo of the health club on and I wore it every day when I resign, you know, I gave my employer a couple months, you know, I said, like you get two months to, you know, I had a great relationship with them still do to this very day actually did some consulting for them after, when I left, I wore this thing every day. And I used to drive by this big lake on my way to the home office facility where my office was. And then so when I resigned on the way home, I pulled the car over to the lake, it was, you know, early evening, got out, left the car door open, walked over to the late and I unbuttoned the shirt, and I took it off and I said crumpled it up, I threw it in the water, washed it sink. And I said I will never have to be in a position again, where I'm forced to wear a uniform, or a collared shirt or anything like that got in my car and drove home. And that was kind of a weird, you
know, moment for me, you know, I'm doing it, I'm going to set myself free. And it's worked out up to this point. Rory Carruthers: Well, and I, you know, I want to point out that, you know, you're talking about like collared shirts, and like, you wouldn't have to wear a uniform, I see a lot of people, you know, they get online and they put their suits on and like they try and be like, super professional. And what I've noticed is that the whole point was to not do that, right. So you see people who like like us who have been doing this a while. And it's like, it's not that we don't wear nice
clothes. But a lot of times we're just wearing like a T shirt or whatever, when we're doing a lot of stuff. And you know, if we go to an event, we dress nice, but the whole point was to not be tied down to that do not have to do that. So if someone's like scared about going online and showing themselves and feeling like Oh, I'm just wearing a t shirt, why is anyone going to listen to me? What would you say that Todd Brown: I would say that the the single most valuable thing that you can do is be authentic, and be you To each his own everybody, you know, I've got clients that they should be on the cover of magazines, their dress, so you know, they look so great, and they love it. And that's them. And that's who they are. And so I would say that that's who they should be, be real, be you be authentic. That is what is lacking online today.
And people today are you know, they can spot it, they can see it when you're trying to project an image. I don't think that like look, it's not you need to project who you are, you need to be you if that's T shirts, God bless wear T shirts, if it's a suit, and that's what you're most comfortable in. And that's how you dress them and wear a suit. Don't think that you have to be something that you're not Dominica Lumazar: very sound advice, I want to get back a little bit just talking about entering into being becoming a business owner and entrepreneur and that's super significant moment of just throwing the shirt in the lake and be like, okay, doing this I'm in you posted a video on YouTube, it's titled easy or worth it the difference between the way successful and average entrepreneurs think in that video, you have like a still image of of this, it looks like on Facebook, it's like a feed on Facebook, where someone essentially said, oh, gosh, you know, this course was just too hard. I threw in the towel day three, because I couldn't figure out how to make an image a PNG image. And before you even started talking, I was reading that because you had it on the screen early and I started cracking up I was like, well, then that person isn't willing to put in the effort. I mean,
that's so simple. You can take five seconds to Google it if small minute things are stopping someone from entering into their full potential of becoming an entrepreneur and setting up the rest of their life in such a successful way. I mean, I can't even imagine what that's like for you seeing that we're just like, are you serious? And your delivery was so genuine and authentic in just basically saying, Are you kidding me? I want to ask you, how often do you run into that with your business? And what is your typical response? Is it like, okay, see, yeah. Or is it just like, well, let me you know, let's encourage and coach around this. How do you handle situations like that? Todd Brown: Yeah, that's such a great question. And it almost it gives me chills, I don't encounter it as much anymore.
Because, you know, we tend to attract people that are a little bit more a little bit more serious, I am inclined to want to coach a little bit and to let people know that I shared in that video that this is your life we're talking about and some of it is baffling to me People often like how do you get motivated? Or what would you say to somebody who's lacking motivation, my answer is always the same. You either want it or you don't. If you're not motivated by the vision, if you're not motivated by the living life on your own terms of being able to call your own shots, then there's no technique that I could give you that's going to hack your way to there are things that you can do to prevent procrastination and time management and that sort of thing. But when it comes to motivation, you either want it or you don't. And what you're
really saying is that you'd rather watch Netflix, then get yourself free, you'd rather goof off. You know, time is the one asset that will never get back. It's the most precious asset that you have every day that ticks by. I think as I've gotten older, I'll be turning 50 shortly. I know I look so much younger than that. I get that all the time. I'm kidding. I
look aged and beat up stuff. No, like I just I realize how precious time is and we're talking about your ability to spend time with your loved ones to the your ability to enjoy the one life that you've been blessed with. I think a lot of people, they're looking for resources instead of being resourceful I can't even fathom that idea of like, I don't know how to turn this thing into a PNG. Are you serious when you're a grandfather? And you're right is that what you're going to tell your your grandchildren of why you didn't go into your own business that you couldn't figure out how to turn the image into a PNG, if that's what you're going to allow to stop you, then you shouldn't go any further as an entrepreneur because you're going to encounter much bigger obstacles, and you got to have that will and desire. And I believe
wholeheartedly that for the folks that do that want it badly enough, there's nothing that you can't figure out. There's nothing that you can't learn. There's nothing that you can't figure out, I can tell you for myself, certainly the smartest entrepreneurs that I know many of the most well known online entrepreneurs, they're most of us are not intellectual giants by any stretch of the imagination. And so it's just a matter of having that will to say like if others have done it, if others have figured it out, I can figure it out. I know that that's a long winded answer. But it's so valuable. Rory Carruthers: So valuable, great answer. And it actually
makes me think of this idea that so many entrepreneurs like they struggled in school yet found a way to be successful. Why do you think that is? Todd Brown: I don't know. That's a good question. I mean, I know I struggled in school, I was diagnosed with a learning disability in like sixth grade, I almost didn't graduate from high school, I couldn't get into any college, when I graduated high to go to Community School took me three years to get a two year degree I then transferred to a state school took me another three years to complete a four year degree in nutrition, I don't think that there's a correlation with intelligence or IQ with being a successful entrepreneur, I really don't, I think that they're the majority of skills that are needed to be successful are learnable skills. And so we're not talking about you know, sometimes, and this is why I'm a big believer, even in marketing models, sales models, if you will, that are not reliant on a talent or an innate ability, you know, we're talking about singing, you know, that's like a talent that's a blessed, you know, blessing that you've got, these are learnable skills, I believe that anybody can learn and get good at. And so you just
have to bring the will the desire, the motivation, that you need to be able to learn and do what you've got to learn and do to be successful. And if you're willing to do that, eventually you will get there. I believe that Rory Carruthers: I think this actually comes down to the fact that there was actually a study done recently, where entrepreneurs found that there wasn't a correlation between IQ and success. But what they did find is that your ability to be
social to interact with people to like, connect on a deeper level, that was more the key. And I think because people who, you know, like us who maybe didn't do as well, in school, we kind of had to find other ways. What could I use to my advantage? Yeah, at least for me, it was after school, like after high school, and it seems like this is for you, as well, where you found something that you're like, passionate, and you became a learner, right? And a lot of people who are intelligent tend to stop learning after high school or after college, and then they just, you know, they go live their lives, a lot of entrepreneurs have the opposite, where, you know, they struggled and then had to find a passion or something that they really cared about to love the learning process. Yeah. And then it becomes the rest of their life. It's an obsession, right? Todd Brown: Yeah, I think that's so spot on. In my experience, you know, I, I've always said, you know, when I was in high school, and I was a terrible student, like, I just didn't really at the time, I don't think I really understood the value of education. I didn't, I didn't want to be in school. And
so like, my whole objective when I was in high school was never to bring books home, right? Like my whole thing was, I don't want to I just want I don't want to have to bring books on a total knucklehead. And I don't think I read a full book from cover to cover until I was like very early 20s. But it was when I was finally introduced to the psychology of winning by Denis Waitley was the very first book that I like read cover to cover devoured, fell in love with it. And that really sent me off on what is you know, become this lifelong journey of learning.
And so I think what you said is really spot on, I found something that I became really interested in really passionate about, I really felt like wow, this could be a game changer. And so I just threw myself with everything that I had. And still to this day, I'm just an avid students and I think that I'm very open to questioning what I believe is true or what you know, like I'm very big into I'm very open to the idea of maybe there's a better way there's a way to improve this there's a more efficient way a more effective way. And so I'm just constantly today learning very different from like I said, my childhood Dominica Lumazar: Well, it's something that I can absolutely resonate with as well. It's interesting to be sitting here with both of you and just knowing more of the backstory about the educational piece. I also Almost didn't graduate,
they allowed me to sing the national anthem a graduation and said, Fine, you can walk like, well, let's show like you were struggling so immensely, I had to, you know, diagnosed with multiple learning disabilities and I had so many people telling me that I was just never going to amount to something else. And so I was just so motivated to basically say like, oh, yeah, watch me, I'm gonna go ahead and do something so awesome. And now those exact teachers have come back to me during the pandemic, you know, hey, we've started this business, can you come give us some consulting? And it's the ultimate just like, yeah, yeah, I can. Yes, Todd Brown: I can. I totally get it. I totally get it. Because it's so funny because like I said, I'm gonna be turning 50.
And I think that, you know, I've done okay, professionally, you know, financially, but, you know, like, I'm still I still want to just be like, Mom look at the house, like, you know, like, I'm still looking for that validation. Like, I need it, you know, kind of thing. And so it's funny how it just works that way, how our psychology and I think a lot of aspiring entrepreneurs, folks at the early stages of their journey, are the folks contemplating even beginning that journey. I think, if they really saw behind the scenes of the way some of the most successful entrepreneurs, experts, you know, gurus, whatever you want to call it, I think they would be surprised that how many are motivated to prove others like to prove that they're worthy to show their teachers or their parents like, look, I'm I've made it or I can be successful. It's just funny how it's so not what most people think when they think of experts. Like they think my whole life is unicorns and candy. And it's so not right, like, it's so the complete, I
get yelled at by my wife, pick up your socks and like, it's so not what people think. But it should hopefully serve as inspiration that truly, as cliche as it sounds, I really believe I tell people all the time, like if I could do it, like this goofball kid from New Jersey, barely got by in school and is still fairly disorganized, and whatnot, then I mean, sky's the limit for others, Rory Carruthers: like what you're touching on is that it goes back to something that you were saying earlier about not really like teaching people stuff that they can't do themselves. There's a lot of people who say, like, do do this, but then they have no way of getting their students to actually be able to do it or their clients, right. This reminds me of what I call lifestyle marketing. There's a
lot of people who use lifestyle marketing where they you know, they stand in front of their Lamborghinis or their big mansions. And they say, you can have this to just do what I do. Right problem with that. I just think that's lazy marketing. Because yes, it works. To a certain degree, it works. Because if it didn't work, people wouldn't do it. But the thing is, is that when you do that, and you have students, if that is what you're doing, and you're not teaching them that, but one that's a disconnect, but then to they're not in a place to be able to do that type of marketing, they don't have the big homes or the you know, the fancy cars or anything like that. They don't have the bank account to support it. And then it sets them up for disappointment or failure. And
I've always looked at, you know, businesses like what are the things that we can leverage, like, if we're talking about credibility? Well, I can get someone and show them how to get featured in the media and leverage that credibility. Anyone can do that with a small budget saying, like, I'm gonna go stand in front of a private jet. Well, most people are not gonna be able to do that. So why would I teach that? Todd Brown: Yeah, I think for me, you know, that's a great point. And and I, you know, I can't disagree with any of that. I mean, we could certainly talk about even you attract a certain client, a certain buyer, when you, you know, with those kinds of messages, there's a lot of things that we can talk about, as it relates to that kind of marketing, you know, works with a certain segment of the marketplace, for sure, that are attracted to that. That's just never been my style. It's not
what I want to put out in the world. I don't it's never been about that. For me. It's not like, like, look, it's great to have nice things, but I just never been me. And so I've never wanted to I think humility is one of the the most beautiful and attractive qualities that an individual can have. I've just
never wanted to put that out there. Could I sell more? If I did, I'm sure. But I've just never wanted to put that out into the universe. Same here Dominica Lumazar: we go, absolutely agree to me, anytime I see those coming through my feed, it just kind of feels like a flash in the pan. And if it works for those individuals, more power to them. And that's great. But going back to like the YouTube video that you put up about the entrepreneurs that are really successful versus not I want to attract the entrepreneurs that are actually wanting to take the next steps and not just like quick cash, I'm gone.
Todd Brown: And I think that that's so important. I think there's a there's a valuable lesson, even in that what you put out there is going to attract a certain type of client and there's no judgment from me, I think, you know, again, everybody is motivated by whatever they're motivated by we all have. We've all gone on our own journey and so therefore, we're driven by different things. But while I want to help as many people as possible, I want to be around people that have similar values. Are people similar to me? I'm not saying that the people that are using the the Lamborghini or whatever the jet and you know, showing their house like that there's anything wrong with that it's just never been me. Dominica Lumazar: Well, switching gears just a little bit, knowing that you are the number one authority on engineering profitable customer acquisition campaigns, how would you bring predictability into the customer acquisition process? Can you speak to that a Todd Brown: little bit, if I go too deep you you rein me in. And
I'm going to try to keep this as least promotional as I can. So if you want me to dig deeper on something, please fire away, I have a specific method process that I follow, you know, we named it the E five method, I want to give you a little context. And I'm going to tell you what it's based on so that we can give value to people something actionable for folks, when I look at my journey, specially over the last, I would say 10 years where I differ in, I would say experience from all the other, you know, experts, marketing authorities, whatever you want to call it out there is that I've had one foot in the online marketing space of the traditional online marketing world. And at the same time, I've had one foot in the direct response publishing arena, with behemoth clients, like the Agora companies, like $1.5 billion a year, company. And so I've gotten to see two different worlds what is been most effective on the in the internet marketing, what's been most effective in the big direct response publishing world. And so what I really have been able to do is pull the best of both worlds together into a seamless method. And so it's kind of
funny, because I and I talk about this publicly all the time that I bring the best of the online stuff, you know, to the Agoras, to the to these big, direct response publishing companies, and they think I'm a genius. And I bring the best of this world over to the online world. And they think I'm a genius. And I'm like, geez, I hope that they never cross over
and realize that it's coming from, you know, like, you know what I mean, right, and so that the, the five method is really grounded in the best of these two different worlds, the way that we put together customer acquisition campaigns or client acquisition campaigns, which, by the way, right, in every business, customer acquisition is the most difficult task, it's the most expensive task, and it's the most difficult task generating that first transaction is infinitely more difficult than is the second, third, fourth, right, the first transaction is what we call the front end. And the second transaction on is what's referred to as the back end, the back end is all the marketing that we do with existing buyers to deliver more value and to grow their lifetime value or marginal net worth to the business. The front end is all the marketing that we do with people that have not participated in a transaction yet. And the front end is all about maximum customer acquisition at a reasonable cost. And reasonable cost is different for every business.
When it comes to designing front end campaigns. The way that you engineer a front end campaign is different than the way that you engineer a back end campaign. Number one, in order to engineer a campaign for scale, you have to recognize that there's going to be a cost per acquisition, there's going to be a cost to acquire a buyer. And so our first priority is to be able to
generate enough per sale to offset our cost per acquisition, right. And so in other words, the aim has to be on the front. First and foremost, the priority has to be on the front that the economics work, meaning that we can invest $1, and we can make back $1, or more in the form of a new customer. So it's not about necessarily conversion rate. It's not about you know, opt in rate, none of those things make a campaign viable or not, you could have a percent sales conversion rate on a front end campaign and be losing money. Every time you acquire a
buyer, you could also have a half a percent sales conversion rate and be raking in the profit per buyer. So you got to recognize that it's all about first and foremost, the economics and that the economics work, it's very different on the back end, because on the back end, you've already paid the acquisition costs. So you've already paid to acquire a buyer. Now it's no longer about the economics. It's about value extraction tweet we can talk about with that as kind of the backdrop one of the very first things that we talk to folks about which is or teach folks train folks on the very first place that we start is with what we call examination. It's the
first stage of the five method ie five method is five stages. We start with examine and we start by examining prospects, you have to start by understanding the psychology of your audience, you have to understand the problem that you are solving for them problem that you're solving for them could be some pain point, it could also be an unfulfilled need or desire that they have for more but what is the problem that you are solving? What do they want? What are their desires? What are their emotions? What are their feelings? What have they been exposed to? What have they heard from competitors? What have they tried before? What do you They consider an ideal solution, what do they consider not an ideal solution, you have to start by understanding the psychology of the people that you're talking to. And so you've got to get out of the way, you've got to get out of your own head, you've got to see kind of the world through their eyes, not your own eyes. And so we begin by examining prospects, examining competitors to understand what they're saying what they're offering. And then we examine finally, the product or service that we're going to create a campaign around. After that we then go
and based on that engineer an offer when it comes to engineering the offer, there are really two main components. And most people don't talk about these kind of two aspects or two umbrellas, if you will of offer creation. Number one is that engineering an attractive solution. And so what I mean by an attractive solution is in an ideal world, you're offering them a solution that is easy to use, doesn't take a whole lot of time, or learning to implement produces fast results for them.
And tables. There's a few others but But it starts with the engineering of an attractive solution that you're going to put in their hand. Once we've engineered that attractive solution, then we engineer the offer itself. And the offer itself is what most people typically think of when they think of the offer. These are things like what are the
deliverables? So how are we actually putting the solution in their hands? What do they get? What do they use? What blah, blah, blah, and there's price? There's the terms, there's premiums, bonuses, there's risk reversal, right? So we're starting with by engineering, an attractive solution based on the problem that we're solving and based on what it is that we know the marketplace wants or doesn't want, etc, then we're taking that attractive solution, and then we're presenting it with an irresistible proposition, right? We're making it harder for them to say no than it is to say yes, we start there because a great offer can make up for a lot of marketing weaknesses, but great marketing isn't going to make up for a frail or weak offer after that. And this is kind of the crux and then I'll stop all of our campaigns are built with what we call EBM content, EBM content is education based marketing content. So we're going to educate the prospect but we're not going to educate the prospect just to just to educate them. In other words, we're not going to try to show how much we know we're not going to try to wow them with our genius. What we're going to do is we're going to identify our point of differentiation and the point of differentiation that we teach people to identify Is there a unique mechanism? unique mechanism is nothing more than how does your product or service work to deliver the result that your prospects want the transformation, the result the change? See, years ago, folks in the direct response world talked about this idea of a USP, the USP is a unique selling proposition. A unique selling proposition is really nothing more than a unique benefit. When you have a product or service
that offers your prospects your marketplace, a benefit that no other competitors offer. You have a USP but today USPS are extremely rare. They're typically only seen with disruptive technologies ride sharing, when Uber first came out, right, and they were the first like now you can hail a ride with your phone. You don't need cash. You could see how
quick they're going to arrive. You can you got ratings, there was a unique benefit compared to yellow cabs that Uber was offering. Same thing with Netflix when Netflix went from getting the DVDs or whatever, Blu ray to online streaming, where you pay one fee, and now you get access to all the stuff that was a unique benefit. Right? That was a USP, but those are very rare in the majority of markets today with the majority of products. So how do you differentiate, right? If you can't differentiate with a unique benefit? The other thing that people try to do we see this all the time is they try to differentiate by making these outrageous claims, you know, you can lose 100 pounds in the next 48 hours. Right? And the reality is, is that either they're lying in most cases, or they reach this point where it lacks credibility and believability.
Right and not everything that's true is believable. And not everything that's believable is true. Today, it's much much more difficult like than ever before because of the amount of advertising and marketing the amount of competition and the amount of skepticism especially in the online medium to differentiate through and enlarge promise. So what are you left with? If you can't differentiate if you don't have a unique benefit a USP, you can't make a bigger bolder claim without crossing the line into unethical and untrue. How do you
differentiate you differentiate with a unique mechanism you have a different way for your prospect to experience the result that they want. You have a different way to get them the outcome, the transformation that they so desperately want. It's different from the other methods, mechanisms systems out there and unless you are selling a pure commodity like a glass of top water, you absolutely can identify the unique mechanism in your supplement in your coaching program in your information product in your agency, whether you're a chiropractor, whether you are a coach consultant does not matter unless you are selling a pure commodity or you're doing everything from second one identical to the way that your competitors are doing it, you can identify a unique mechanism once we've identified the unique mechanism. And it requires some interrogating like
taking your method, your process, your framework, your system, putting it under the microscope, so to speak, interrogating it, identify it, we then name it, which is a different conversation, we go back to the education based marketing content. And what we're ultimately doing is we're educating on this different and superior way for the prospect to get the result that they want. So we're basically saying to the prospect, we have a different way for you to get the result you want in a way that you haven't heard about before, a way that you haven't tried before. And this different way is superior compared to the other methods. And here is why so we're educating them on this different way. And we're showing
proving what makes it superior to all of the other methods. At the end of that education based marketing portion, we've led prospects to see that this method, this mechanism, this framework, this system is not only different from the others, but it's superior. Now, we've led the prospect to want the mechanism. And at that point, that's when we segue into the offer. And the offer is now the vehicle for them to get that
mechanism. The mechanism, if you will, is what's in the solution. You've used education to establish authority and credibility and expertise for to lead your prospect to see why the mechanism which is only available through you is the best solution for what they want and what they need. So they go into the offer really pre sold, if you will. And now when we wrap that in an irresistible proposition, they're grateful for the opportunity to buy, we don't have to use exaggerated claims, hyperbolic copy, we don't have to say things that aren't true or cross over into this unethical realm. We show them what is unique and different and superior about your approach, give the evidence and support for that. And then we give them the opportunity to buy it.
Dominica Lumazar: Obviously, it's been wildly successful. I mean, you answered so many of my questions. I'm like, I'm looking at my question. Like he answered answer. Oh my gosh. So thank you. Wow, for all of you listening and watching you better have your notes out because this is like the most invaluable content. Todd Brown: Well, I'm glad that normally like I'm always nervous, like, oh, man, I'm going to you know, I'm going to I think you know, without getting without going too far down the rabbit hole. You know, it really does go back to at the
foundation is that too many people kind of confuse or conflate the idea of marketing and selling. You know, it's why I intentionally talk about marketing funnels, not sales funnels, because marketing and selling are two completely different activities with two completely different objectives. Selling is what you're doing when you're talking to a prospect or communicating with a prospect who knows the type of product they want. They know they want your type of product and now they want to know why your product versus all the other options that they have for that product. The job of
marketing as was said by Peter Drucker you know considered the greatest management guru ever the job the objective of marketing is really to make selling superfluous to make selling unnecessary meaning the hard closing the the arm twisting the the job of marketing and marketing is done, right you you're setting up the sale perfectly. Marketing is about the prospect and it's about their wants their needs, their problems and the perfect solution for them. It comes down to this understanding that even though I'm a huge fan of the classics of direct response, that the classics talk about that this is salesmanship in print, I really do not agree with that anymore today, not with the internet, and not with the different technology that we have today. And so I think that too many people skip the marketing stage and they go right to the selling. The reason why this method just seems to just continue to perform and outperform other approaches is because we're creating the demand for the product before we ever even talk about the product. And we're doing it through valuable education that gives insights and a haws and leads the prospect to want the mechanism before we ever even give them the chance. It's a beautiful thing when you really
grasp that difference between marketing and selling very Dominica Lumazar: significant, incredible. Rory Carruthers: credible, it's like we all arrived at the same conclusion with us here we use the same or very similar strategies thought process about marketing, selling eats, what we teach is well utilized with our clients. You know, in my book business, like developing a book follows a lot of what you were just saying, you know, I call it how do you become a market of one and it is the system that you develop, even if it's not, you know, the most unique thing in the world. It's the system and how you put it together. It's your story that backs up
how you developed it, and then what is the name that you're giving it like in your case with your book, it's the five method like my process is called the best seller method. We've Give it a name to make it easy for people to comprehend. And then they realize, Oh, you've actually got a system, you have a system. And if I follow this system, I'll get the results. Todd Brown: Yeah, well, it's that you're so right. I think, you know, as the and I love hearing that it's awesome to see, you know, I love when folks, you know, you get it, do it, use it, the method, the mechanism, the reason why your clients are successful is because of your method, your approach your process, there was a time when, especially pre internet, where information tips was valuable, because it wasn't as accessible. But today, information is everywhere. And so we've got more information today than ever before, then we can process the idea of I'm going to show you like, I'm going to show you how to do Facebook advertising, let's say I'm going to show you how to do it better, I'm going to show you how to get better results from your Facebook advertising. Well,
that information is already out there. That's everywhere, right? You go to YouTube, do a search. And you'll find that people don't want more information. They want a framework, they want a system they right they want a blueprint. The other thing is that when you have that blueprint, you're offering something that is proprietary that can only be found right from you. It's why years ago when I was working with chiropractors, and they would always say they used to say to me, you know, I go out, I do these presentations, and I educate people on the value of chiropractic care, and I deliver a great talk. And you know, people love it. And they thanked
me, and then very few become a patient. And I'd say to them, I used to say to them, that's because you don't want to educate people on the value of chiropractic care, you want to educate people on the value of chiropractic care with you. Because if you're just educating them on the value of chiropractic care, you're just educating them on the commodity, you're getting buy in on the commodity, they can then say to you, thank you so much for opening my eyes to the value of chiropractic care. Now I'm going to go to the chiropractor two minutes up the road from my house, who's a family friend. And so we never want to offer a commodity, you want to offer a proprietary solution. And that's why, you know, for a lot of
folks, it takes time to interrogate and dig into their process, their framework, their system, their approach to why they do what they do when they do it, where they do it, how they do it. Why do you choose these five steps? Why in this order, why not six steps, what happens if it's out of order, meaning when you spend the time to really interrogate and dig, you identify the reasons why you've chosen to do what it is that you do the way that you do it. So if you spend the time, you can identify the justification, the reason why you use this methodology, but once we identify those reasons why those justifications that becomes the heart and soul of our marketing method, reason why you do this is because it gets this effect. And if you don't do this, it doesn't get this
effect, which means you're exposed to this right you identify the educational components that you can use to prove why yours is not only different, but why it is superior. And the reality is for everybody listening to this that has a method, a process, a framework, a system and approach, whether they're a coach, a consultant, an agency, an expert, whatever all of the folks listening, I know that they believe that their way of doing it is the best because if they didn't believe it was the best, they would do it differently, right. So they would do it a different way they wouldn't be doing it. Nobody intentionally does the second best or the third best. And so it's really just a matter of spending the time to identify it, dig it out, and then name it and we name it based on what it is that we identify through the interrogation and then educate people on why this is not only a different way, but a superior way. It's just a beautiful thing
when it's done the right way. And it's done with purity, it becomes enormously valuable. Like it's no joke to say that, you know, I'm sure you know from from your experience, when you do it this way, it's not uncommon to have people thank you for the opportunity to buy, right, which is unheard of in like the typical sales setting. But why are they grateful,
they're grateful, because you've taken the time to educate them on why this is the best path. The other thing to understand, it's important to recognize that when I talk about the unique mechanism, remember the unique mechanism is the way it's the formula in the blood pressure lowering supplement. It's the algorithm in the software that gets you top rankings. It's the bodywork method, or combination of methods that are used in the massage therapy session that get you out of pain so quickly. But
it's not the product, meaning the unique mechanism and the product are not the same thing. You could have a software writing you name it XYZ software, and it's powered by the elemental P algorithm. And it's the algorithm that is responsible for why the XYZ software produces the result. That's an important distinction. It might seem like a nuance, but it's an important distinction because we now have a marketing message that is not a pitch for a product. We're not talking about a product. We're not talking about an offer. We're
not talking about a service. We're talking about a method a framework and approach a process right a mechanism it allows us to deliver a message that is Truly education base, we're not talking about a product, we're not pitching, we're not selling, we're educating on a mechanism just so happens that this mechanism is only available through you. But nevertheless, we're educating and delivering value. And that's an important distinction. It really
Dominica Lumazar: is. And to your point, and, and both I know, for Rory, and to you as well, you offer exceptional support, it's not just like, here's this thing I'm putting out to the world. Good luck. See, ya know, there's there's the follow up process, there's the follow through, there's the check ins, all of that, right. And I feel like that's something that's lacking with a lot, of course, creators, content creators, that they're just putting stuff out into the world. And there's really just a significant lack of follow through for the support aspect of it. So well done, gentlemen, way to make that Todd Brown: happen. Thank you, we certainly try. And I think
that we're big enough, mature enough, you know, to recognize that, you know, you need constant improvement all the time. I know from 20 years ago, the world is a different place, the internet is a different place, you know, markets evolve all the time, what was extremely in demand and reach a point where it's no longer in demand, what was once new is no longer new, what was once a USP is now a common benefit markets evolve. And that's why we all have to be perpetual students of our market, you have to keep your finger on the pulse of your market all the time, because it evolves in some markets evolve much, much quicker, the financial space investing, some markets evolved slower, the health and wellness space, but they all evolve over time. And so things like big marketing ideas, ideas that are intellectually interesting, and emotionally compelling, you know, six months ago may no longer be a big, you know, marketing idea may no longer be a hook that is seen as new, unique and different. You have
to be aware of that, because that's going to play a role in how you structure your your marketing and what you say and all that. Rory Carruthers: And that's what you know, we talked about is like opportunities change. Yeah, right. And that's going to happen, you just have to recognize new opportunities as they come along and be willing to utilize them and not just watch them pass by because they will pass by sometimes very quickly. Todd Brown: Yeah, absolutely. I think some I'll say this, for
what it's worth, I completely agree with you. I think on the flip side of the coin, I would say you also have to, you have to be strategic enough to recognize opportunities that you should let go that you should pass by just because you know, one of the mottos that we kind of have with our team, especially like our leadership team is just because we can do something doesn't mean we should you have to make sure that you're being strategic in the choices that you make and the opportunities that you pursue, because not all opportunities are worthy of pursuit for every entrepreneur, just because some one person goes into tick tock and is making a bunch of money in tic toc doesn't mean that every entrepreneur should be should be doing that. And so you got to be strategic about your, about your choices. But no, you have to be able to recognize opportunities, spot them, see them coming, you know, be able to kind of look around the corner, so to speak, decide which ones you need to pursue which ones you need to let go. And that comes from keeping your finger on the pulse of the market.
Dominica Lumazar: Excellent advice I wish we could keep talking for you got like five more hours you just hang with us. Really I'd love to. But I want to be so respectful of your time. And Todd, I know that you just so generously have offered a gift to our listeners, can you tell them a little bit about that Todd Brown: I want to give folks the ability to learn more about the E five method be able to take some stuff and put it into action. And so we've got a little bundle put together, I'm going to leave some mystery, but a little bundle put together for folks to learn more about the E five method and how they can use it in their own business to grow to differentiate to get attention to turn that attention into engagement to produce more sales, all that stuff, and we've got it for them at E five bundle.com.
Dominica Lumazar: Awesome. That's an incredible gift. Thank Rory Carruthers: you so much for doing that, guys. You're listening, make sure you go there now because this information is so valuable. It's so in alignment with what we talk about on this podcast over and over and over again, Todd, you've put it together in such a way that is just so easy to follow and well thought out. Thank you for being here and for sharing such valuable information with everyone under my Todd Brown: pleasure, my honor. You guys are rock stars. Like I said figuratively and literally. And so I loved it had a blast.
Thank you so much for having me. Dominica Lumazar: Alright guys, that is it for this episode. We'll see you next week. Thanks for watching or listening. Bye