Thursday 31 January | LordsQs | House of Lords
Oh great. God I beg. Leave to ask the questions telling you my name. My. Lords this is a matter for the house to decide and of course it is open to any noble Lord to bring a proposal to the procedure committee although, I do not intend to do it myself I understand. That a repose 'old for a review is likely to be tabled for the next meeting as a, member of the procedure committee, I will of course consider any, proposal, made, well. I'm grateful in part for that and and maybe the the. Leader when she does consider, she might reflect on on a couple of things one, of which is that this. Must surely be the only Legislative. Assembly, anywhere, in the world, where. The. Question. Time the only person, who's not allowed to speak is. The speaker, that. Must be. By. Anyone's standards, and. I simply say to anyone. Watching from the public gallery or elsewhere, the. Proceedings, in this house at question, time are. Often, a complete, shambles, they're, a shouting match and, they are unintelligible. To a neutral. Observer so. I do it it's now two years nearly since we debated, this in the house and, I just asked the leader if first she will ensure, as. Far as it's within her power that we have a debate on it and we see, a decision. About the speaker's power in, time maybe for an experiment, to start at the beginning of the next session. Well. As I've said to the noble Lord my understanding, mr. proposal, will be coming forward to procedure committee I haven't seen it so I'm afraid I can't comment further on it but I'm sure following, a discussion, on. It the DEP senior deputy speaker will update the house. Expect. That members of this house should be able to show courtesy to. Each other at. Question, time, indeed. My. Lord, while. I of course welcome, the, suggestion, by the noble Lord Lord beric OTT that there should be a review, a, five-year. It was originally, intended to be a five-year review of the, road speaker's house. In this house my. Lords I also would like to point out I'm emphasized, perhaps to the house that it, has, operated. On the basis of self regulation for. Forever, and that this is an extremely, valuable, convention. Simply because it, ensures, that each and every, pair in this house takes responsibility for, the, courtesies, of this house now I understand, that these have become somewhat afraid of late but I think to undermine, the. Self regulation would, be a. Unfortunate. Precedent. Well, I agree with the noble, lady I believe, that self-regulation. Does work and characterizes. This house it, means we do not need to resort to for instance select resort. To selection of amendments, and force groupings, program motions or guillotines none of which I think the noble Lords will particularly, want to be introduced, into this house. Noble. Lady. The leader agree. With me a, modest. Proposal from, law broker which would and give, the speaker, some. Powers, to, moderate. The way we deal with questions, does. Not necessarily, imply a, wholesale. Change in the role of. This. Is simply a straightforward. Standalone. Reform which is long overdue. What. Is of course a member of the procedure committee I'm so no doubt he will make his views heard when, a discussion has had I. Agree. With the noble Baroness Baroness de Sousa that. We should be able to show, courtesy to, each other at question time or more often than not this is the case but, can my noble friend the leader enlighten. The house about how often she or her frontbench colleagues, have, to intervene to assist the house a question, time. Well. Since, July. 2018. We've had 76. Sitting days in oral questions, and the front bench have only had to intervene 13, times. But. My Lords, isn't. It correct that when the role of Lord, speaker was originally. Set up it, was, envisaged, that, there would be a review. After. The term of office of the first Lord speaker that review, never, took place and is. It, not timely. To, look at the, role of the Lord speaker, in its entirety, but including, question, time and while. I, hesitate. To disagree, with my successor. And, the. Noble. Lady the leader of the house has just described, how the front bench can assist.
Self-regulation. At question. Time for. Many people I think having. Although. We know the leader of the house is completely, impartial having, a member, of the government. Assisting. The, house in deciding, who should speak doesn't. Feel, good, in a parliamentary, democracy and. We. Could have, that role undertaken. By the dog speaker, without, undermining. The. Principle. Of self-regulation. Well. The noble lady will of course be aware the aspects, of the Lord speakers, role were considered, by a group on working, practices, chaired by my noble friend Lord good lad which produced a report in 2011 and in subsequent years the house did, take various decisions on proposals, on it including. Deciding. Not to change the role of the Lord speaker, at question time but as I said in response to my original. Answer. To the noble Lord Lord gros Couer I believe that a discussion, will be had in the procedure committee and of course if any recommendations. Are made it will be for the house to decide whether. They wish to support them I. Think. The important thing is that this is done it is really not good for it to fester and I think the word timely. Was just used we should, look at this could, I just make a minor correction if I understood, the leader of the house correctly, she said there were 13 times when the. Chief. Way for somebody had to intervene I think, that means from the despatch-box. The number of hands pushing, and. Indications. Is way above that I think, we have to recognize that it happens far more than, perhaps the number 13, suggests. Noble. Lady is right that that is intervention, from the despatch-box but I mean generally. As we've said I believe that question time does work I believe that noble Lords do show respect, and courtesy to, one another and I believe that self-regulation, is an important, characteristic of this house. Appreciating. That I may put myself at some risk having service. In your Lordships house for no more than 7 months but can I suggest, to. The, leader that. We. Would get much more out of question, time if it was conducted by the Lord speaker, who would maintain, equity. Between party, and non party groups and perhaps other disciplines, as well. Certainly. Ensure my noble friend that the chief whip and I do everything, we can to ensure fairness around, the house in terms of answering questions in fact almost 85%, of tabled questions, are since July did not from the government benches and we do try and make sure as question, time goes on that, all our members of the House are given the opportunity to speak and to ask questions which are in course an extremely part, of important. Part of scrutiny of the government I. Think. Noble Lords had just shown they can do it for themselves. My Lords does, the noble lady the leader of the house however recall. Water, budgets, distinction, between, the dignified parts, and the efficient, parts of the Constitution and his. Observation. That the dignified parts, who are imposing, old, and venerable, does. She agree with me that the Lord speaker on the woolsack should remain dignified, not, to mention imposing. Old and venerable and should, not become efficient, because, as, the previous Lord speaker has said it, is, crucial to the effectiveness, of the second chamber that, we preserve our culture and practice and self-regulation. I. Beg. Leave to ask. The questions standing in my name on the order paper. My. Lords, the. Female, offender, strategy, published, in June 2018. Outlines. The government's, long-term vision, for improving outcomes for, female offenders, in custody, and in, the community.
The. Strategy, strategy, sets, out a program, of work that contains a number of commitments which, will take some years to implement a new. Women's policy framework, was published, last December. And lured farmers reviewer family ties for female offenders is expected. To report in coming weeks. Lords. I welcome this information, from the Minister which follows many positive, commitments, to, the female offenders strategy, however. We are still awaiting news. Of residential, pilots action. To strengthen links, between probation, services, and women's centers, report. From the noble Lord Lord farmer and, national Concordat, given. That many of the strategies commitments. Have no clear timescales or a suggested. Deadline has already, passed, how, does the noble Lord the minister plan to effectively, monitor progress, and, to, stay on track. The. Laws we are concerned, to ensure that these recommendations are. Implemented, as soon as practicable, and indeed. The women's policy framework, was. Implemented. As of 21st, December, 2018, we. Are taking forward further work in. Partnership. With other. Groups. And parties and indeed, I would notice the work of the Nelson Trust which I know the right reverend prelate is directly. Involved, in which. Recently put in a bids for additional. Funding, from. The ministry, in order to further its community, work. And we. Are encouraged, by the strength of that bid and similar bids and want, to take this forward as soon as possible. Bonus. Costin, were here she, would be. Enthusiastically. Supporting. The. Right barrel pellet in terms, of pressing. For this - this review to be implemented, as quickly as possible not. Just on moral grounds but the additional. Investment. That the noble, Lord the minister has referred to is, spent, to save because. Actually. We could say and the enormous, amount of money by, diverting, into. Prevention, and early intervention rather.
Than Having women prisoners in. The kind of conditions, that I saw when, I was home settling. The. Lord's I entirely, concur, with the observations, of the noble. Lord and indeed our. Own female offender strategy, seeks to build upon the seminal, report of the noble lady Baroness, corsten which, goes back of course to 2007. Of. Mandatory, post. Custody, supervision, has, disproportionately. Affected. Women. Recall. Numbers for men has risen by 22. Percent since. The changes were introduced, but whilst the women they've grown by a hundred, and thirty one percent, women. Are trapped in justice, system, rather than being enabled, to. Rebuild, their lives the. Prison Reform trust has called for mandatory post, custody, supervision, to be abolished does. Mister, agree that, the present. System isn't, working and does, he have plans to, review it. Milords. The idea, of, mandatory. Supervision for, those serving, a sentence of less than 12 months was only quite, recently introduced, there. Is a disproportion. Between male, and female offenders. In that context, I quite accept that and then the deed that manifests, itself in various other parts of the. Prison, and, custodial. System, what, we are seeking to do at the moment is extend, community. Center. Services, in order to help accommodate, those. Who are released after short sentences. And indeed. To combine, community. Services. With, treatment, requirement, protocols, and that, is, extremely. Important, particularly in the case, of female offenders, where we see a vast number, a vast, proportion, who, do have reported, elements, of mental health difficulty, who do suffer from alcohol. Issues. And who very often also, suffer from. Drug. Abuse issues, and indeed, over, and above that there, is an enormous proportion. Of these female offenders who it turns out to be the subject of domestic violence so, we are trying to direct these services, at these particular issues and we will continue to do so. Friend. Except, that there have been recent years been a considerable, number of pregnant, women, in prisons, and can, you give us an assurance that in each and every case, the. Person concerned will be treated with sensitivity. This, is a very, important, issue for, us and, we endeavor, in all cases where, a female offender is in custody to ensure that birth does not take place within. The prison system itself. Sometimes, that cannot be avoided but, we do have extensive. Services, for, mothers. And children up. To the age of 18 months, where it is necessary, for them to be in custody but, I emphasize, necessary, and indeed, where they, are towards the end of a short sentence, steps. Are taken to try and ensure that a mother, and child are kept together but, of course this cannot be, done in, circumstances. Where there has been a serious offense that, results, in a mother being in custody for a lengthy period. Reven. Correct referred. To the strategy, in visiting greater use of residential, and community services, instead, of custodial services, to, what extent, is that occurring. And, is the government still adhering, to its policy of limiting funding of the strategy to five million pounds over two years replacing. Its previous, plan to. Spend 50 million pounds on five new prisons, and, if so what's. Happening to the other forty five million. The. Lord's there is an important, shift in policy away, from custody, as a means of trying to resolve these issues and that is why we moved away from. The proposal, for five community, prisons we hope that they will not be required, and instead, we have shifted the balance in the. Direction, of Community. Services we, are going to pilot, such, community, residential. Services, in five, areas to see how - it, works. And, for that purpose we have committed funding, of up to five million pounds, over, the next two years but, of course that will not be an end of the matter we will address, the consequences.
Of The pilot in these five areas and see, how we can take it forward from there. Does, the minister recall, that some 15. Years ago during. The period of my. Noble friend Lord brung blankets custodianship, of the home offers the. Sentencing. Guidelines Council. Approved. Indeterminate. Census, sentences. For, the more serious, crimes, but. On condition, that for the less serious, crimes. There, should be a significant. Reduction at. The law end particularly. For woman and particularly. For woman with dead. Unfortunately. From. The judiciary's, point of view that has never been fully, implemented. So, can I congratulate. The government and moving away from the custodial, sentences, and asked them to. Look, to this long-standing, recommendation. That has never been fully implemented, I. Agree. With. The fourth, of the noble laws point in. Fact section 152. Of the Criminal Justice Act, 2003. Does. Clearly, require the courts to consider imposing. Non. Custodial, sentences, unless. It is otherwise. Justified. And indeed. The sentencing, council guidelines, from 2016. Reinforced. This move in addition. To that we have a judgment, from the Criminal, Court of Appeal in, the case of Petric in. 2012. Which, set out the criteria for. Sentencing, in cases where you had for example a female offender, with dependent, children so, we have been moving in the right direction but, I accept, that we have not moved far enough and we are determined to see if we can do that. Standing. You my name on the order payment. Milords. There. Are no restrictions, on the creation of mapping databases. Of the UK. The. UK has world leading mapping, data and this is an area of competitive, advantage, offering. Significant, economic opportunities. The. Government created the geospatial Commission. In 2018. To elevate this strength and is. Dis currently developing, a uk-wide strategy, to realize the OP jusers as. Part of this it will consider both risks and opportunities for, current arrangements, for, access, to mapping data. For. His answer and Marlo's. Privately. Gathered, data. There's. At least one, major, High Definition survey. Going on. Financed. By a foreign, owned company, which, bases, its its, services, on Russian. Software, Russian, mapping software data. Every day is being processed in places like Nairobi. This is not Google. Maps this is high definition software, which, is pinpointing. Our civil, infrastructure. So, the, minister seems relatively. Unconcerned. About this can it can hear sure your, Lordships house said a risk analysis, this, will, be carried out on the, the security. Nature, of this data and some, sort of strategy. Around how this is controlled, within the, obviously, important, commercial, interests, that are going on in this country yeah. Well, I understand, the local Lords concerned he's tabled a number of written questions, are on the subject and in, view of that concern, I have gone back to those who are responsible for security and I, received an assurance that those responsible, for our critical national infrastructure. Are, not, asking, for the restrictions, on commercial mapping, that the mobile Odyssey. Digital, mapping and the metadata associated with it are obscene, crucial, in terms of establishing nodal analysis, and targeting, nodal, analysis being identifying, the, points within one's water, systems, energy.
Systems, Transport, systems that by taking out that one spot or two spots you can bring a car nation to its knees, bearing. That in mind. Could. Do mobile or the municipal isn't it exactly who is looking, at this to, make this decision, because it, is a pretty critical thing, and something we went to immense efforts as a nation, to discover about people who might be our enemies so we could do them harm we don't really open ourselves up, to people to do us harm. Understand. The noble Lords concern access to critical national infrastructure, sites is of course heavily restricted. Ordnance, Survey is, the government-owned national mapping agency, is the only mapping. That, has might have access to property for, the purpose of mapping under the Ordnance Survey Act, passed. By your Lordships house in 1841. But. But. Of course in in view of the concern which the noble Lord has expressed and that of the, noble. Lord Lord. Fox I will, go back just to double-check the information which I have been given and of course much of this information is already obtainable, through satellites. Through Google. Street Survey and the, Soviet Union has been mapping the UK through since the 1940s. So. I think one has to be realistic about the amount of information that is already available satellites. Can identify objects. At 30 centimeters, long. Okay. Okay, to comment on the following I was, returning in a taxi, or mini, cab but it were from outside London, to London and going. Up my Road the driver said and the colour of your front door is and he knew exactly what, it was is. That a, healthy, situation, to be in. Well. I hope, he's enabled the noble Lords to reach his destination. The. The geophysical. Data that, is available does. Help people in their everyday lives noble, Lords waiting for a one five nine bus, outside, can. Use their iPhones, to see when that bus will be coming noble, Lords who hope may have forgotten where they parked their car. Can. Use their mobile phones, to identify. Mobile. Lords, may Lord's who go jogging. In the morning can, see whether they are going faster, or slower than other noble Lords on the same circuit, so. I. Think. One has to recognize that, there are real advantages, from having this geophysical. Data and. I, wouldn't be concerned if somebody if everybody knew the colour of my front door.
Enjoying. The Second World War, during a period, in which many members of the observed authorities still appear to live a. Suspicious. Honor take taking pictures of houses would, have been stopped by some doubt equipment, like mark francois i'm challenged in case it was a german. Nope. There were and sure it still are some, security questions to, asked answer, is it not proper. For the government to polish us a review of this and, could he meantime, tell, us whether. British. Map. Leaders satellite, users ever can discover as much detail, about. Houses. And, critical. National infrastructure, in Russia and China as, they now can about us, well. On the on. The, first question. The neighbor Lord raised if I refer, back to the original answer, I gave I, said. As part of this it will consider both risks, and opportunities, for. Current arrangements, for access to mapping data in. This country because of the excellence of Ordnance Survey there are actually relatively few commercial, marketing. Organizations. Doing this work what. Most of them do is actually build on the data for Ordnance, Survey and. Add value to, it but, I what. What knowledge we have of critical. Installations, in Russia matter. For the mo D rather than from a humble Minister in the Cabinet Office but. In view of the views, that have been expressed on, both, sides I will go back and just double check the information that I've been given. And. I do. Fear there's a case, of our your, Lordships house trying. To shut, a stable, door that has long been open but, the, noble or the Minister has highlighted. Our increasing. Dependence, were, the jogging, or. Whatever, else it may be on. Global. Navigation data. Would. You, care, to comment, because. It's not just noble, Lords jogging or trying to find their cars but, it is the, maritime. World. It is trains, it is everything else that is dependent, on GNSS. Data could. He tell us how, far the government has got in implementing. The recommendations of. The blackett review, on to, the extreme, dependence. Of our national infrastructure, on gns data in particular the, financial, sector, which would collapse with if that data were interrupted. Well. The gnomon board makes a a valuable. Point as, I said in my original reply. We have established a new geospatial. Commission and that has a number of objectives. And I think if one looks at the five which at which I won't read out that improve, that includes the particular issue that, the neighbor, Lord mentioned. But at the risk of using. Jargon which I criticized last time, I was, here the noble Lord makes a valuable point high. Quality cross cutting geospatial.
Data And ecosystems. Are fundamental. Building blocks of our vibrant and innovative digital. Economy. The. Low base business all burns I beg. Leave to ask the question standing in my name on the order paper. Milords. The impact, of flight tipping is grave wherever, it occurs it. Lights local, communities, in the environment, and tackling. Fly tipping is a government, priority, Deborah's. Recently. Announced resources. And waste strategy outlines. Our approach to, tackling waste crime including specific, proposals, to prevent detect and deter fly tipping this, month we gave local authorities, in the Environment Agency powers. To issue financial, penalties, to, householders, who fail in their duty of care and pass, waste to fly tippers I thank. The noble Lord the Minister for his reply. Having. Said that if you look, at the. Statistics. From local authorities over. Half of local authorities have not had one, successful. Prosecution. For, fly tipping they. Say it's, not the lack of law or regulation, or anything else it's a lack of resource, they simply, haven't, got the ability to use the powers they've already got. What kind of Majesty's government do to break through this impasse, and address this terrible. Problem we're facing right across the country. My. Lords I entirely, agree with the right reverend pellet it is unacceptable. What we're seeing in our country in terms of fly tipping and littering and I think one of the examples, is the partnership and four instances in his, own diocese, Harford. Share ways partnership. Has brought together a range of organizations. To agree on a common approach to tackle, fly tipping and has, seen a fall of 18 percent in incidents, from, 16 17, - 17 18 I think, that actually what the the, local authority, enforcement, actions over, three hundred thousand investigations. There is a lot of hard work going, on and I think partnership, is the way we're going to tackle this. Can. I confirm the noble, Lord. The. Bishop but this. Is a growing. Problem not, just in, a o n bees but right across our, woods. In our open countryside, and it has got worse as local authority, cuts have, meant that waste disposal, services, are less readily available particularly. Green, waste which. Is in now and many authorities, charged, for can. I ask the minister as, well as giving additional, Paris, from local authorities that he does seriously, consider that the resource. Constraints. Are a problem, but also that, the public can now need to be enlisted in much greater numbers to, control this issue and would he launch. Together with, the. Local authorities, the Environment, Agency and Crimestoppers. A public, awareness campaign, to ensure the public report, incidents, report. Vehicle, numbers where possible, and that. When. They are. Approached, by white van man or, or indeed by a building, contractor who's. Going to dispose waste on their behalf that they personally, check that, that contractor, is licensed. And that he is taking that waste to a licensed. Site I would commend, to all install, local. Lords in the house today to, follow their, skip to the tip it can be a very interesting journey although, was.
I Agree with a very, considerable. Amount of about what, the naval Baroness is said and I think that educating. People much more one. In five people consciously, drop litter one, in four if you say tidy litter are you placing it so there is a lot of work we need to do it to educate we're working with local authorities because, we think that is the way forward and I. Would endorse the Great British spring clean of March and April as a way, in which civil, society can get much involved. The. Life's to hit my neighbor from the minister endorsed a great was spring clean but will he get her masters government, to, encourage every, school to get involved in it so children are indeed educated, before he answers that could I just endure what the noble Baroness young said as a member of woodland trust I think need fly-tipping, is absolutely, appalling weather beyond, would entrust hope for hearing where's odds. Are again, I agree with my noble friend there is a lot that needs to be done it, is actually, worse in urban areas than rural areas but wherever it is it's unacceptable. Where. On local, authority, land such as country parks, then the ratepayer picks up the cost where on private, land and this is a landowner, who pays to. What extent, does the government agree the problem is related to the increased, cost of waste disposal. Reflected. In the cost of skips which are an additional, burden to many small trade related firms, would. The noble Lord the minister agree that an approach to ease the commercial, recycling and, associated. Costs plus. The availability, of suitable disposal. Locations might. Help to alleviate the situation. Malusi. Resources. And waste strategy engaged. Itself, in a lot of that error and interestingly although. 200. Billion pounds, is during, the lifetime of this Parliament going and not ring-fence, to local authorities, we clearly want to be looking at this we've, asked Rapp to look, at these matters, because actually, the evidence is not the, case that it is about resources, it is about using, the action. That can be taken and there is a whole range of action with increased fines which i think is going to be very helpful. Is. On private, line. Serious. Life tipping at that would, the normal Lord the Minister agree with me that it would be useful to use more technology such, as discreet, cameras, with, the number plate recognition systems. For example and, what do you encourage the police to, cooperate, with landowners, in this, regard and make, it clear that when these people are, detected. That the penalty. Actually, deters them from making. It worthwhile in the future. Is. Absolutely. Right it's why as part of the detect part, of the strategy we, are developing again, a mobile app alongside. Landowners. For reporting of fly-tipping, incidents, we're working with the judicial office because we think that magistrates. Need, to be effectively. Trained, in. Environmental. Offenses and indeed, we take tougher, tougher, sentencing, and penalties. Is.