The ROI of Every Social Media Platform | Fireside Chat with Tyra Banks at Stanford Graduate School
That Jerry at, some conferences, I saw you speaking, and I was. This. Man was. And. Not. Just the content, that was coming out of. Social. Media, but. Also his energy, and he, has this thing where. Hello. Class oh, yeah. I'm. Doing a lot of things but, it's but it's really it's really interesting I'm doing a lot a lot of things there's, 50 other things I could tell you them up to but it's really interesting and it's really what we're talking about here in its most basic form I'm, actually only doing one thing I'm day, trading attention. I'm. Doing one very, simple thing I think, the world is in change. And. I think that there's over priced and under priced attention, we're, spending a lot of time here I remember from last year been listening even I was on my phone for the first 30 minutes here, I think there's a lot of a, lot of conversation. Here around the content, you, know meaning like how do I want to present myself a lot of things you've been debating, and asking questions about I think. That it's, a really interesting thing to make something happen to make everything that you want to happen it. Takes content, and distribution, and, there's. Very few people that, are doing, a good job and really understanding. Both. Of them at the same time and more importantly unlike. The world we grew up in where. Distribution, was so stagnant and understood. The, content, didn't. Factor the distribution, into it for example making. A 22, minute sitcom. Doesn't. Take into account. Television. Distribution because. It didn't have to whereas, making a video for Instagram, or Facebook or YouTube has, to understand, how distribution, works to, have a chance to be successful. So artists, are struggling with math and mathematicians. Are start struggling with art. I'm. Not sure and that's the truth because I don't really spend any time on. Auditing. Who's doing it well or doing it good or doing it smart, I spend, 100%, of my time on the, end consumers. Attention. Okay. But. You also have a personal brand oh yeah a huge, personal brand a personal. Brand a lot of people know you as this, person. This you know kind of celebrity. CEO and. Don't even really understand your businesses but understand, you that's right and the value that you're bringing to their lives that's right so tell me about the decision, to make yourself a personal brand and why YouTube. Was two months old I saw it I'm like oh shit this is gonna be the next big thing and I. Started a wine show in February. 2006, i sat a desk, like this and drank four bottles of wine for 20 minutes and. Exploded. It, was you, know Google Flu actual, Google Yahoo. Cuz it was Yahoo video was big at the time yahoo, and google google. Had bought youtube when they flew me out but, very early on I had 20 minutes shows on YouTube, like if you go back to YouTube in search videos that were made in 2006. Nobody. Was making 20 minute videos, like I was I was, just long-winded and talked a lot and so they dragged, out but I, I. Built. A personal brand very, early, in the scheme of things because, of the YouTube show and then Twitter came out and that's. When I started getting smart and started investing in these things I'm like ooh that's gonna be the next big thing so I, got, on Twitter early it was one of the first 25, people in the world to have a million followers on Twitter which, was really wild because everybody, else was in from tech TV and you, know diggnation, it was very techie Twitter. The first two years I was a wine retailer, in New Jersey. What. Did you think so. I built a brand early what did you think. Came. More to business was it just about being famous it was it about no. I thought I was I thought I was I thought it was gonna do QVC, the, first day I did, you. Know Wine Library TV. By the time my. Stock, guy who set, up the camera was, set up and we were ready to film I got scared, I said, this a, friend. I recall. This very recently I did. Something very early on my career where it, was extremely, noble for like, pretty. Radical, reasons that I didn't even need to or should have even maybe right and the, kid, asked me why did I do that and that my answer was, because. I'm scared the date lines gonna roll up on me and ask me the question. Intuitively. At its. Earliest, point, I understood, the Internet was gonna expose. All the shadows of our society, like, at a very, young, age I figured it out I didn't realize it but all my actions spoke to it so when Wine Library TBS first episode started even though I wanted to sell wine I was, like shit what if I'm at a party and somebody gives me a glass of wine and says if Brian's like hey what do you think of this wine I'm like oh it's terrible you're like well you're a piece of shit you said it was phenomenal on episode, 136, and I was like so, scared of that that, basically from the beginning I went ultra.
Transparent. But. I thought I was I was doing it for business I was, 32. Years. Old I was an entrepreneur businessman. There was no fame there was no I was already you know I was a grown-up like I wasn't like thinking it wasn't what I dreamed to do it's, nothing, that I never, thought that I would like. Walk, the rest fo like I just did right now and take 9 self like that was never a part of the equation it. Was for business I was a businessman, a. Hundred. Percent but I don't think you need a personal, brand to build your business I think. You need self-awareness, to build your business and, so. One, you know even listening to some of the questions like David. Dee's question, here like like when I was listening to some of the questions the. Night, I brought this up last year, on this and I I'm gonna say this again I understand, the class you're in but I'm, an, unbelievable. Buyer of betting. On your strengths, and punting. Your weaknesses, and the, thought of. Operators. And entrepreneurs, forcing. Themselves to create personal brands is laughable. Because nine, out of ten of them that I know have. No shot or. Gonna waste way too much energy or. It's super, uncomfortable now, that doesn't mean if you're an introvert you know it was funny when you talk about like somebody, just standing there you know I've always thought about authenticity I'm like if you are actually just monotone, it's like for example I think entertainment and you, know I have stick fine, that, works for me but, some. Of the stuff that I most enjoy is just depth of knowledge like. Ah you know the. People that have followed me around personal brand a lot of them are, not charismatic or pretty or that interesting. They're just such a deep expert, in their, field that, their, podcast, for, example, is dominating. And even their video of just, like them straight. The camera not, just apart not, all that charismatic a little, bit awkward but, their information. I. Taught, well that's where I'm going, I totally agree. It's. Not about being like you that you can be shy you can be awkward you can be and you can lean into that 100%. And, then just having context, of like what I'm assuming the ambition of this room is. It's. About self-awareness and, and, back, to my self-awareness, you know as it, started happening I'm like oh yeah I was a good class clown and oh yeah like I do want to talk at the dinner table and control, the conversation so like it, became. Obvious to me like wait a minute there's something here, and then and then. When I made the transition of talking about business not about wine, it. Really. Went to a totally different place because, I. You. Know this, is what's great about documenting. Everything I was saying things that nobody agreed with and then ended up being true, you. Know like like, it just you know I. Like. Instagram. Is gonna get bought by Facebook and then it became true and then I'm gonna CNN for predicting it and then they're making fun of me because it was a billion dollars and I said he stole it and then if you and if you go read the comments on YouTube of the clip the first two years everybody, makes fun of me asshole like. Pushing.
Propaganda, How can you pay a billion dollars for a company that's only 500 days old and then the last two years it's like genius, he fucking knew you know you, know and so you know what's, amazing is being historically correct is the most valuable thing you could do I think, one of the great reasons to build personal brand is to. Document. You. Know imagine watching the documentation. Of all, the things we put on a pedestal like. Imagine, if Steve Jobs had a vlog back in a day, like. The learning like for me. Iris. Is filming. Right now. What's. Tough for me is I'm operating an actual business so there's a lot of firing and negotiating, and a lot of stuff we, don't film I do film, a lot of it just for my grandkids to watch one day I. Haven't. I haven't I haven't I haven't done that because. I just I just feel yeah, I don't think that's but I film, things that or, I'll ask you know like or like I'll feel from afar I mean I you know I also am projecting technology. One of the biggest reasons I document, my, life is that I think that my kids are gonna sell the IP of people, being able to be in meetings with me in the future in a VR environment, so. There's a lot of chess that I'm playing with the like I do a lot of things. I. You. Know what. So. They're in so many different sectors and consulting, to, retail, to, entertainment. To I mean so many different sectors talk. About what, each platform, means which. Should help them say okay I need to spend more time here so let's start with Facebook. Okay before we do that just to frame it up first, of all we have to decide you. Know what you're doing meaning or, if you know it's, I think it's super you. Know I always question, what I've even been on social media if I didn't use it for business purposes like, I don't consume content you, were talking about you know some of the streaming tea like I couldn't seem very little outside of like the Knicks and the Jets like my consumption, of actual content, because, I'm reading I'm I'm. Consuming, people's behavior, on the Internet that's what I'm doing and consuming.
So. I think as individuals, Matt, and Adam that's great, like I don't think that's weird or that's, fine I think a biz, that's not being on it is ludicrous right. So are you asking me on a personal brand level or the okay on a personal brand level Facebook. Is the. Single most important, platform still, because. Of scale just, just, true. General, scale unless. What you want to talk about and what you're about only. Skews 21, and under you. Have to be on Facebook that's. What. I was talking about is there's two ways to play on Facebook you can build a business page a personal, page if you, have any commercial ambitions, it should be a business. Page they, work different on the algorithm you'll have different tools so the answer is for business purposes we're, here it's a it's a business, page you should be talking about whatever the hell you want to be talking about. I. Know, I'm, a very big believer that people, overthink this I think you can go anywhere with it I think you're gonna look at data and see what happens some people resonate. On a personal level others don't, again I think this comes down to self-awareness I also think the type of content you post is self awareness there's people in here that can write their ass off but. Like freeze when there's a camera you know I can't put two sentences together but. I could you know I can do my thing when there's a camera there's audio there's, pictures there's captioning, it you're clever you're snorting so there's a lot of variables I think you know one, thing that I want to make sure all of you understand is that the, written word video, and audio have, been the, way we've always consumed, stuff and it's the way we will always consume, stuff and so, I think one, of the things is right. Now the medium is so visual, that, I think a lot of people here are pressured, into thinking it's about the camera world and I think there's an incredible upside in written. Word, and audio, I think everybody at this point understands, is a lot, bigger than we. Thought three or four years ago. You. Know so. Instagrams, the next establishment. It is the establishment, is the most contemporary, and important, platform in my opinion, it's it's already gotten to the 50 and 60 year old set so it's pretty, much now at scale, right. There's. An awful, lot of attention on it I think, that for, most people it's. A requirement as well to me DMing. On instagram is stunningly, effective even. To the most powerful people, so, that's a little fun fact I think there's access, that's playing out on Instagram. Yeah. I mean it's an incredibly. Important, product I. I. Have empathy if you come from the industry you come from if somebody says that they're building a high fashion brand, I still.
Think That cartier is, best move is to show a little humility, and a little like not fanciness, so. I think anything, that acts human, always, wins, so, for me I'm less, Precious about that but. For you and Cartier if that's 90% of it I understand, that but. I don't think it means, anything when you talk about my, Instagram looks like a mess I don't, think a lot of people I think we overthink, the way it looks like as a as a like. A net I go on Tyra's account and we under think about what it looks like in stream, which is how we actually consume it so I've got a different point of view than the market on that. Snapchat. Which, I don't understand, how to use that. Snap. Is still, extremely big. You, know 13. To 28. But. The story. Feature on Instagram took a lot of momentum out of the system. Yep. I you know for me I think that uh I, think, trading. Attention, I think snapchats, actually one of the most interesting places to be on right now because, everybody bounced, yet. There's, still an ungodly amount of tension if you care about 11 to 30 so maybe you're you know if you're doing b2b. Hardware. Snap, is not gonna matter but facebook facebook is and i think people don't understand that Facebook would for a company like that, but. Again if you're starting a lifestyle, fashion brand and maybe. Your, audience is Millennials, twenty-five to forty five if you're if you're a really thoughtful market, or you'll realize that winning thirteen, to twenty two will drive your business so. I think, snap matters, if your demo if you care about winning. Under, twenty-five, but. I'm not convinced, that they make it out of this they're, gonna have to innovate their product they're, gonna have to come up with something now Snap. Is very wisely invested, in, a are you. Know they own bitmoji there's, things that are doing and I think Evans a very uniquely interesting, guy I know them a little bit I know snap extremely, well but. I think to. Me that is a nice to have versus a requirement, other, than again, if you're starting a good. E company, its requirement. Twitter's. The watercooler of our society, you, know which has, an important, place to be I think Twitter's more about listening and reacting than, pushing out content, which, is why so many people struggle with Twitter so for example even you said my, Twitter it's a mess at the engagement slow that makes sense it's a firehose too much content, however, if you.
Personally. Use Twitter different, than you used everything else and instead. Of posting on it it's, when you engaged, with people or jumped. Into conversations. Or culture. Hacked it you, would crush if you, guys if, you if you would jump into like when, ninja, and Drake are on Twitch if you, jump in and like, boys leave a seat for me it would have been huge for you got. It so, it's a it's a counterpunching. Platform, around copy. And, this, is and this is super important I think you're getting a sense for me like I'm telling, you right now the. World is grossly, under, estimating, the strategy, and nuances of these platforms. Like. I think you can tell this is not like hahaha like this is very deep. Psychographic. Mathematical. Creative, strategy. Twitter. I think is remarkably. Interesting, for example Wendy. Is growing. Their business, flat. Out on the back of snarky, and clever Twitter. Engagement. And guess what, Twitter. Engagement. Doesn't cost you $80,000. For video production doesn't. Cost you see where I'm going so there's. A lot of people here who are quite, clever and that might be the platform and that is actually, you, know how it's tough to like well what am I going to post what's. Amazing about Twitter is you don't have to do that you, could just follow the conversations, get involved, like there's a meme right now going on based on do you hear right, like. The, - like I'm all ready for you yeah, right like, there's, such a place for that right, there's, such a place if, you if you're you have to be creative it's creative writing like, this is where I think improv, writers comedy, writers should, live on on, Twitter, because they have that Sensibility I. Exist. You. Have seven people you have seven eight million fake followers the way they there would fake because what they did at one point was. They, used. Gmail. And, there was something else buzz I try to remember they, like they've completely, fabricated the, top of the funnel how much you actually had predicated. On how much we use Google for other things so, it made us all feel good I. Don't. Think I generally, live. My life this way and haven't, thought, about it for four years let alone been there. Lincoln's. Super, interesting because LinkedIn was a utility for. You know the, jobs, and, thing and it's absolutely evolved, into a Content. Platform. LinkedIn, is an incredibly thoughtful, place for a lot of you it's. A place to do white papers and thoughtful. It's, an incredibly. Interesting b2b. Place. But. It's about producing, content it's about blogging, and making, videos and posting, on LinkedIn not, spamming, people and messaging. Them till they get a contract, from them and, then is there anything on the horizon. This. Has been and this is smelling it and that people need to get on it early because the earlier you get on you tend to you know have a bigger following so, I think, of social media more as like content. Per, se right because that's really where it evolves into I'm. Completely, obsessed with podcasting I wouldn't call that. You. Kind, of went around the room and said if you're not doing a podcast I'm, paraphrasing you're an idiot I'm paraphrasing but it was something like that and me. Hearing. That not as a student but hearing that I felt, like an idiot and next. Year I'm gonna do a version of, that I love it you said that I, was. Super right about that and like, and I'm happy about it because it's really helped a lot of my you know all my contents free my audience watches it I love the idea of like them benefiting, and so many of my audience, because.
Of That rant that I was going on two years ago I mean voices, get. Ready like, no, question, most exciting thing for me and technology, is the, voice Platt and blockchains, an unbelievable. Technology it's the Internet itself there's so much to talk about AR is gonna be super rad machine. Learning and AI super, interesting, but for me the reason I'm obsessed with voice and the apps that are gonna be built on top of Alexa, and Google home and Apple, home pod is that. We're, about to be affected, for real for real in about 36 months like you are going to I. Would say yeah I'm looking around like, you. Know you would have never guessed I bet you all of you looking around just kind of like gauging ages here it. Would have been hard for you to believe how. Much texting, compared to how much phone calling you. Would be doing if I sat here eight years ago and said I promise you 96, percent of your behavior is gonna be texting, not calling, you would have had a tough time making that leap you, would have said maybe 5050, I'm saying. It right now remember, it one day I can't wait for you to email me you were gonna be blown away by how much voice interaction. You're gonna do in seven years you're. Not gonna type you're. Not gonna type. Which. Is like crazy right god. We're. Always. Look. Look, guys, everything, goes in a circle right, everything goes in a circle I didn't think I was gonna type in my life sitting, in high school I'm gonna be an entrepreneur I'm not gonna type I'm, gonna fucking use tight why would I type, that my whole life became type right, it's all type it's. All like now we're all deep into type we're gonna go back to it because what. We care about is lack of friction and speed and, it's. Going to be faster, for you to, do something with a voice. Device always on everywhere. Always than. It is to take out your phone and text your mom maybe, like mom I'm gonna be late and it's gonna be done we're. Talking about like so, like it's way, way way way way bigger than you think. Of. Course it's always a generational, of. Course, of course and and eventually, we're all gonna understand that privacy doesn't exist which, is gonna be the best thing for the human race just to on the record piracy caught that. It's. Shut it's just going to be. I. Think, you can get in trouble when somebody else has leverage. Means. If you work for somebody or if. You, are being. Financed, by somebody, they have say I don't, think you can lose with the audience I think, that's been proven time and time again you. Basically say you're sorry and you move, on it's. A remarkably. Human. Thing it's why we're still around our compassion, ability. To forgive is enormous, I mean think about what you'd have to really do to. Massively. I mean we're where you go I mean you got it you're really into, like the most extreme territories, which is if you're, doing those things if you're murdering, somebody I promise. You the tweet is the last of your concerns so. So. This place of like I can fuck this up, you. Really can't where, you can so, the audience. The. Audience the, market, you, have no danger, you, have danger, if somebody, has leverage on you you have danger, if Rick, the VC, who's about to write you a check didn't, like that you said that and now doesn't and I think the reason I've been able to live so free is I've never put myself in a place where, somebody has financial impact I mean Tula. Is super fired up, a question. So. I actually I'm. Sure you probably know someone it's guys like I used to watch like these daily vlogs every day but Casey my staff and. This other guy Jesse that was always with him and both of that eventually. I stopped. Doing their vlogging and their social media presence or severely, doubt the fact because they were talking about having, this mixture, of personal, and professional it. Negatively, impacted, their, business. Is negatively. Impacted, their personal, relationships, so, I want to kind of get. Your view. On how. To be. I. Don't. Think I don't think we, stopped. That from happening you, know we're not gonna make rules of that like that's that never works I mean if you look at Casey's situation, he, stopped for two reasons one sake one he got 25 million dollars from CNN two, he. You know when you do something for a long time you get burnt out, he's also super, back you. Know last month he started a full studio for it he's also started a podcast with. His wife to, talk about the issues of it so I think you have to watch, behavior. I you, know I think, we. We.
Overthink, That we can regulate stuff what I like about the Internet is it's exposing, us not, changing, us like. How do you stop you stop like. I don't think it's up to us or Google or Facebook like, I love all this Facebook talk like, people, are mad for. A platform, exposing, who you actually are. So. You, know my point of view is I. Don't. Think it's a I I don't, think it's as much of a collective, conversation as, people think for, example people, want to say that social media has a lot to do with teenage suicide, and bullying what, they don't want to talk about is that, modern-day, parenting is so over, coddling, we, do not put our kids in a position to feel, any, detrimental. Actions, in the first seven years of their life which, then forms a reality, that they're so entitled and unable, to deal with any adversity, that so, we are not we are having very basic. Conversations. Some more with the basic conversation, that people are so scared, to. Do anything to say anything because of the mob mentality and now. There is no trial, before, fire. So. Talk, about that that the data sweet but really like. The data doesn't the data doesn't show that, so, well. Well. Well let's talk about it you're saying that people don't want to talk people are talking more than ever no I'm saying that people, are scared to be free. With, their tweeting. Or their, social because. They're scared that something, is going to happen oh but, it but that seemed pretty thats let's say jess is like that well that's who she would have been in life. Again. Technology is exposing who we are like there's, millions. Of people who are not, there's. People who. Are. I. Just don't agree with you I just, I love, to know who. But. I think you see I think, ruining, your life is very, different than having turbulence. For two weeks I. See. It constantly, because there's a moment, the. What the woman let's talk well, let's. Talk about the combination let's, talk about the most extreme case the, woman who, made a racist joke about HIV, in Africa and was on a plane and fucking Google made, the search result to her follow, her plane path and when she landed in South Africa, everybody. Was there she's, doing fine. No. Listen I really want to have this combo cuz there's a smart crew right let's have smart conversations. Ruining. Life is. Just. Not happening from a tweet I'm just gonna put it down like. If you can show me the ones like, it's just not I. Go. Ahead. What. Yeah. But but the action. Is what, you have to look at like tweeting, like fuck, you or like using, the n-word or like things that we would be super, offensive. And. Reaction, to is not ruining lives the actions, of like of like, engaging, with an underage, woman, in sexual, behavior like, you have to map to the action, not the tweet. Of. Course, but, but he could have to write. Like again, I think we're having a you, know I think we're having a really interesting but he but he could have but. He could have and people have and I think the more important question is, that. What, happens next because now the, Anthony Weiner who's, 11. Know. That the world is watching much, more and it may formulate, his behavior. And never got him to place because the world that Anthony Weiner grew up in and the world that I grew up in was, mainstream. Media protected. All this, bad behavior, Matt. Lauer and Harvey, Weinstein, and Anthony Weiner's of the world were protected, by the alternative, to the Internet called traditional, media protected. Let's. Just really and likes about alternatives, so we demonize, this new technology, which, is actually, doing, incredible, good, for us as humans we're just in a certain, chapter where we're going through the middle stage where we're reconciling. Know. I actually I apologize, let's let's let us three have this for 5 2 more minutes because it's important you, disagree, meaning. No. I'm gonna. Especially. In politics, but. He's the one that took that, action, to, the group, which which was then the final, catalyst. Of his downfall. Right like, there's, probably. Thousands. Of other politicians. Doing. What God. Please God. Let's. Roll. The. Internet, doesn't change it, exposes.
So. A. Hundred. Thousand percent. But. The internet but the internet like. To me the question is like a tweet that you know isn't, like let's go back to the original seed a tweet or the form of communication. Isn't. The culprit, there's. There's far deeper things that we've taken this conversation to. Write, like Michael, Vick going, to jail for having, dogs fighting and Ben, Roethlisberger. Raping two women is a very big difference one's. A white male one's a black male one goes to jail for, fighting dogs one, gets away with it twice. That's. Not Twitter. And. It makes companies. Scared. So let's. Let's not let's not let's not be ideological, let's, then talk about alternatives, cool fine, its Twitter then, what about what, the New York Times or The Wall Street Journal, or CBS, was then like. So we rather have eight. Three, people be in charge of who's persecuted. Or not. Social. Network. On. A platform and, because. Companies. Advertisers. Whatever, it is are. Being. Led by the mob, they. Tend to act quick, and swift and fast and it can really ruin somebody whether it's for two but again but again the woman on Fox saying something, and everybody reacts, on the internet because the retweets, from Florida, could, have also been the New York Times featuring, that you're, talking about more scale, but. I don't I don't think we're talking about you know it's a very interesting conversation obviously, we're getting you, know into this which is super fun for me to. Me it's just about alternatives, and I, don't think somebody's. Life is ruined by. A tweet, but. I think the actions. If picked, up and hitting, the consciousness. Of America is and I just look for example. I. Think. Anthony Weiner's, survived, anyway like, his his, political, career in the way that we're, contextualizing. It here. Thank. You. He, has and. By the way we have to contextualize bouncing, back is he gonna be the Governor of New York no but. Where is he like like he's making. Well. That's where I'm going. But. That's the question so I'm trying to answer. Yeah. But but but let's talk about it in a different way there it but Taylor Swift's also used that platform, to create like. So you know you this. Has gotten, very philosophical, which by the way I'll live, on I love this shit but. Taylor. Swift is going to have a hit song in about 24 months. Cool. We'll find out. Yeah. But a focus group of seven is dangerous, yeah. I, see. You as being like, like. Falling, down on social media as your child that you are defending. Even if it is I'm not. Let. Me let me let me let me answer a better way I actually have zero motion, for social media give a fuck I think I'm being dead serious. Percent opposite, of what you're saying cool. I'm. Not I'm defending, I'm defending, the human race I'm not defending I'm being serious, I'm defending how humans, react and what we actually do with each other and now that we have scale to actually see it it's something that we're struggling to completely quantify, I mean, it I mean I'm thrilled, with, the thought of. Social. Media being gone I think we grossly I think we're starting to quantify, how, unbelievably. Important, Communications, is and how it's dictated, everything you, know I'm a I'm, a child that, was born in the Soviet Union where. My mother is my hero who. Tells, me at one point in my life that she, wrote a book report that Fidel Castro, was the bravest man in the world and she read it to me and it just like was you know maybe because I had that Soviet, us, kind, of thing going on I grew up in the 80s I was always hypersensitive, just the day after 9/11 I basically, spent three hours a day on Al Jazeera's website for, two and a half years I'm fascinated, by, Allah, I'm fascinated by a man walked in threw a grenade and killed 27 kids in Washington. State and nobody, in America knows about it this happened like I'm fascinated by. Communication. And, so I'm not defending social, just. I just think that we should have more complicated, conversations, about it and I think most people take, it very literal, and aren't, looking at it at least I don't, want to say it that way I don't think I'm thinking about it better I just think we go you, know.
Yes. Without, social media the paparazzi would have put up your picture. Yes. I'm not saying that it's awful I'm on it Gary no no I know your honor you're thinking that I'm saying no no, no no. But, I also think it's an angel I think it's both I think it's both I think the question where it all started is does. A piece of content ruin your life you. Know at its most basic I think, it's it's. More complicated, than that I don't. Think it does and. I don't think I think it's both do, you think it's both and unfortunately, I don't have the tools to debate you because if I had the tools we would be going so heads ahead but my silence, is because I don't have your your, silence, is predicated on the fact that you can spend all your time between now and next year's class and you're not going to come up with the example, that isn't, attached to something egregious. And the actions. Spend. The time but if I was he. Would go down it would be my jab jab can, somebody do the work for her, yeah. I'm inching on it it's out of your control so. You might be putting it out there, it, hopes a certain reaction and, 50%, will react to the. Other 50% are, gonna go haywire. My. Question is what happens next. Cool. Well. I think I what it means is I think when you went, back, to the way the question was phrased and I'm not picking on it that way it's like can, a tweet you. Know ruin someone's, life I, think the question becomes what happens next you. Know I think. There's a second part you know you know when, Richard reacted, like you hear it in the headline there's. A moment in time but. I'm just curious in the macro is sure yeah. Like cool so you know you said, something that was misinterpreted or, interpreted, properly or, you said something wrong I mean like it. Happens every day like. It happens it happens 40,000. Times a day Nipsey, Hussle says, something, that is inappropriate the, day. Later it's not I mean I think we are dramatically. More forgiving, back to like, back, to my I'm debating for people, not, you, know like the human race not social, media I think we're massively, under. Estimating, our ability to still be sitting here with, all our capabilities, and I think there's a gross underestimate, of. The human spirit and the kindness and the empathy and I, think that's what's playing out. What. I the. Sort of life or death or career rooting for things what I find is there's often, much more a. Effect. On the nature of what you're able to discuss, as your business you know I'm thinking of like these style bloggers they like sort. Of getting into reviewing, Outlander which is a very passionate fan base and.
They Said something like well you know we're not so into this plotline or something like that and the fans just kind of left on them they basically decided you, know we're not going to cover that show anymore because it's not worth the effort for, us and so they sort of pivoted to other activities and, I can pick up lots of examples, like that where you might have to tailor. The activities, of your business, your brand whatever, to, acknowledge. That. Inherent. Kind of swarm. But. That's but that's happened, forever. Yeah. And I think it's just different as sort of what we're discussing it's faster, and, it's. Shorter. But. I think the thing we're spending so much time on, the first 24. And 48 hours of, the test and not talking. About the actual impact and then more importantly what. Then that means to human behavior once. We go through a full cycle I think, a lot of what you're seeing now emerging. A decade, into this is people, being more less, fearful. Like everyone's, like oh we're talking about less and we're more scared I think we're more courageous. Because, people are understanding, the ramifications don't exist to the same level and how that plays out becomes interesting. From. Last year you put a lot of pressure on him okay remember him sitting in this room and, he said that he's trying to grow this base of people and he maybe wants to go into politics. Remember. He's, got all these people and she kind of doesn't know what to do with them and you said that he needs to answer as many of them as possible yes and I saw his face in his face crumble. He. Just was like what, however. He. Took your advice and. He. Says that, he his social media following has grown threefold, in one. Year and the. The. Embrace. That he gets from his country he. Feels has a lot to do with what, you told him to do which was engaged, can you talk about that to this class and, you. Know not. To rehab our last 15 minutes but I'm a very big fan of doing the right thing leads to the right thing and I think there's a lot of different ways to look at it I'm blown, away by the selfishness, of, most. People as they try to build a personal brand it is 100 percent predicated, on them you, know they how many followers do they get how much is their engagement and so, I remember that moment and you know. Just. Put a heart like just I. Think. Bring you know somebody, if you were if, you have the luxury that somebody finds you interesting, enough to consume, what you have to say to, not reciprocate. That with. An engagement or an acknowledgment, or. Listening. And more importantly for me I think one of the reasons I've been able to map a lot of this behavior is that's, all I do I'm my, post is actually secondary. It's, the what happens next and my ability to interact and, then that gives me insights, you, know these the, insights, you get from, actually reading every one of your replies and then engaging with them is extraordinary. There. Is no data in the world that's better than being a human that that, in tune with, their audience because you're picking up on so many nuances. Yeah, I mean I couldn't I couldn't believe, it it more. I. Agree. With you and I think that the, leading indicator there was that developed. Sure. My, so, yours, was a little more Qantas. The the technology, is still pretty behind or, advanced, depending on the filter you look through my, leading indicator, you. Know is really just human behavior, like I'll, look at how, many peopie just little, subtle things start happening just, more, anthropology. And qualitative. Stuff like man, a lot of people are really listening to their you know headset, you know just like listening and then music and then you start seeing podcast. Being talked about more often so you, know maybe some lightweight social, listening but, you're, always trying, to parallel, where, the technology, is the reason so many people lose money that, come from Stanford is their tech right they're not they're human wrong. There's. An addiction that, I have to it that's stronger, than networks, so I get in my car and I can't reach for it fast enough so, is that it.
Could Be a lot of different things I'll tell you what voice has its, passive, and so. We can travel and do other things you're not required to watch and, so. It fits where, we have evolved, into which is we want to do multiple things and, so. That you know we're on the go so the passive, nature of voice is remarkable. Voice consumption. Of content which, is why that will grow obviously the, second, part and the more interesting part of voice is the, AI and, the, devices and just making your life easier, I mean things like you, know we we exchange it for me so I'll get great I'll give you a great one you were in New York promoting, your book I guarantee. Four years from now you would have been on my podcast because, through voice the, one time you might ought maybe I should reach out to Gary by the time you get to a phone you're into another thought you, know. But. I didn't know I saw which was great no, I mean I mean what I mean fascinated, by is, everybody. Here is gonna book meetings with each other through voice and it's gonna plug into the calendar app and decide, for us when we can meet like there's so many efficiencies. That, voice is going to be able to do passing, thoughts is where I was going with that analogy you, know, so. To. Me leading indicators, are more human, based right. So I'll give you a good example online dating, to, me the leading indicator, was. Watching. Who and when, they. Started using online dating, not that the technology. Existed, to connect people together. Stigma. Uber. You. Know like you can't tell a parent, 15, years ago that they're gonna want their fourteen-year-old, daughter to take rides with strange men at night because, that's gonna be safer than them driving, so there's, stigmas. That we have to get over robots. That, one's going to be the big one. Jirô, for me zero. For me, probably. A lot more for you since you're asking it that way I think. Again, I'm telling, you self-awareness. Right. And lack, of judging, yourself there is absolutely. It's cliche, no right way it. Depends on you know if you're an improv, actor none if you, need to read the script thirty times you know and so like I it's, a very personal mission and to. Try to achieve to, somebody else it's, just like a hockey player wanting to become a basketball, player like, why you're, a great hockey player you, know. Yep. Yep. Empathy. Empathy. For. Me how do i empathy. Like I get a ton of hate I'm, empathetic, like if you are taking, the time to. Spew negativity, on me. Out of your day you've, got you've got you're coming from a bad place and so. To me it's empathy, like I'm so grateful that. That would not be a gear and so I I, don't think I'm not worried, about the judgement of others to the bet you know and everybody has different levels of securities, and insecurities, and everybody's got their trigger points, and I have mine too. But for me it's a cost of entry and to. Be frank for me it's far more empathy, and then for others in here I would just tell, you like to, let an anonymous. Social. Media comment, you. Know take you away from your ambitions, is, really. Not. A good idea. You. Know like we are human beings and it hurts but what I try to do as fast as possible, there's like it hurts and then push it back out and to get it away from me as much as I can, and, sometimes it's just going past that person sometimes it's muting them um it, depends on how nasty. The hate is sometimes, it's blocking them and then I get nervous I'm like wait I blocked them and now they're gonna see that I blocked him and then they're super hateful person so is this gonna make them even more hateful and show up outside so, you know there's just all of these like, kind of levels. And, they have to kind of pause especially, as a female you have to pause and go what, chip is if a block is this an ignore or, is this a mute. I. Created show that push down through Facebook in its video how, do you see. I. Think you do both because. There's no reason not to I'm. Not sure but they'll both be there. I'm. Fine with same obviously, I do think there are slightly. Different enough where you can do some contextually, different things, but. I for. Example actions. Better than words my daily vlog goes on both pretty much the same the copies a little different I community, manager a little different but I.
Think, They're both gonna be massive players like. Like, massive. Players. The. If I deepen that statement, there's a there's the, the, entertainment. Value that, they think, they need to go into similar, to how much in you prep or not is what. I mean by it being entertaining. On video, is a, real skill and so. Just a lot of people that are especially. If you're a CFO. You. Know math a driven, operator, it you know you know there's people that have both but you can already just you know see that so many of them don't map that you know there's the art they're left the right thing, so. That what I struggle. When I get sad for my friend who's building a great SAS business, and she, thinks that she needs to start a youtube, show and I'm like like. I'm like you don't have to you're building an incredible business you can and I'm thrilled to help you but, and you definitely don't have to be like super charismatic and, like 360, drone video it gets it gets away from people you. Know. So. That's now a bet. Betting Our Strength's police was not. Telegenic. Or autogenic, whatever you want to call it type of voice and now it is. Individuals. Because I can see that the first way when, Brad. Would put up their content, in general and then you sort of idiot just to amplify that content, so the second way when you have companies, like triangle. That gets to a hundred million of revenue swimsuits, on my feed employees, and others are media being come down to Philippines and some, here's, like where do you see I. Think. I. Think that eighty, percent of the money that fortune 500 spends should be on social media websites I think. Facebook is the grossly most. Underpriced stock of all time. The. Same thing they did um print radio television and, outdoor pictures. And videos, right. Like. You know I people. Kylie Jenner's cosmetic. Company did. Four hundred eighty seven million dollars in sales in the last twelve months and people. Think it's her social it's not it's the content they're making on Facebook, and Instagram and running ads against my. Friends Facebook. Ads are so, grossly underpriced, and right. Now they're running between six, and eight ten. Dollars CPMs, they're, gonna be 50 70 80 there's, only one stream it's supply and demand as soon as BMW and fate and coca-cola, figure, this out and their money comes in it's gonna be hard for our startups, to penetrate, that feed this. Is the time and it's. Been the time. Yep. So. Similar, to Tyra and I've been putting out content since 2006, there's literally not a single, photo of my family on the internet you, know something my wife and I decided we didn't want to put a zit my you. Know notoriety grew, we knew that there would be ramifications to that we, didn't. Well. It's really funny I mean so, many like that's the move by, most business people they, use their kids and their animals to because. They they're they actually think the currency is how many likes they get and, this is the thing like it's always to be like what are you doing like cool you got 10,000 likes but did you sell any more swimsuits. Like you know like what are you trying to accomplish so. Sarah I think I'm you know I feel like very in control and, I also recognize that people, can film and everything of that nature to me what's in control and why I love this so much and why I'm unbelievably. Optimistic, about this I really AM is. You're. In control of your actions you, know. Like. I. Go. The other way and iris will tell you this and the rest of my team I'm completely. Fully, on the record. Because. I'm just them like I'm just not worried, about the collateral, damage cuz. I know what my intent is if, I make a mistake that's.
Life And I should own up to it I don't, think they're gonna be the kind of mistakes that we've, referred to earlier things of that nature so I I, mean I'm probably, the most extreme, I've gone to a place where I'm filming every single moment of my life I, have. I had. A vine that went super viral four years ago on the toilet you, know and you know and obviously that's for fun and you're like kind of like being a little silly about it but, I mean you, know this gets you know again. I already went heavy enough I can get real heavy what I would say is this you're, in control. But. That's the beauty of the meritocracy, of it it's not how much you put out it's the value exchange. That you're creating so. It's not how much you're putting out because to your point you can dilute if you're unable to maintain if, you're able to be if you have value to bring whether through entertainment or, information. It, only exponentially. Allows you to produce more. And. I think overexposure. Was, something that was dramatically more relevant, when you had platforms, back had so much awareness a hit, TV show in 1983. Have, 50%, of the country, watching it there's. Nothing, that has that much attention anymore, so, it's almost impossible to, overexpose, it's, it's the long we. Are not calibrating. The true long tail effect of the Internet and its impact on communication, and all the sub. Impacts. That are created from that. So. Much time on. Your phone. Well. First of all I think that's it's the micro, because the macro is I work 18 hours a day that affects from my relationship to how about like at home or where I'm with friends I don't, consume anything I'm, with them the, problem is that's, only 20% of my time overall, so. I can exhibit on the weekend, like. When I'm really home you. Might could see very little and I create. Even less so it's really just more like the consumption, the creation with respect to your job and outside of that. Correct. I kind, of made a quick reference to it which is like I almost debate, if I would be on it I genuinely. Curious, if I, would have used it had. This snap in my life, some, you know what's weird about that I also don't think I would have drank alcohol, if I didn't grow up in the wine business like. I didn't have a single beer. And I got you know so, it's been funny that my life. Is kind of like that, but. Because it is my business and, my. Again, I kind, of broke it down my business is people's attention, and people's, attacked like I don't consume. Anything, I don't want YouTube videos I don't like, I just I I, will. Watch a tweet, in its individuality. Not, she posted it her, post thing about a subject matter and you guys engaging with it it's what I'm consuming, which is why I'm. Sure you even could tell like you, know it's, not about being right or wrong I think my, points. Of view are grounded. In. She's a mountain practitioner, ship and an awful. Lot of. Energy. Towards trying to figure it out Bert awfully, long period of time. Yeah. But, to me I'll tell you something else let me let me actually answer your question now in a dipper way I, think. It's great that every single person sitting at a dinner table looking at their phones it means that they don't value that person, in that moment so.
I'll Give you an example if you're always with their best fucking friend like always like, you spent nine out like in college you're always together or at work if. You go to a restaurant and you're both on the phone and who, comes in and sees that in judging, technology, you're, missing so much in the context of why that's happening. If. You're a married couple, and you're, on your phones the whole time on your one dinner date every Thursday night that's probably a leading indicator that. Your marriage is not in a good place so I. Again, it's not that I love, social media it's that I love people I think people of. Course people will give you the tell I understand, so, much about everybody here just, on how they, dress. That. Is your biggest, indicator, to like I think we I, like. To deeply think about the. Psychology of it all so, to me, like, people judging. Somebody, being on a phone is just. A very shallow, point, of view what's underneath that is, everything. I. Get. It man i really. Unbelievably. Don't think it's a requirement. I think it's leaving something unattainable, for, a business. Opportunity for, sure but. Okay like, like, there's a whole much more interesting debate about that what do you want right like if you want to practice that does 3 million a year you can get through that easily without social and then if that's what you wanted then that's what yeah. What. Do you do, right. So. What I know is you writing, one LinkedIn, blog post about, your thought of blockchains. Impact, on the. Yen could, be the single piece of content that changes the course of your career. Correct. But to, that point right to, that point I think I think content is the, gateway drug to opportunity. But, I don't think it's I don't think anything, is required. Pleasure. How. Are you nice. To meet you um I'm big, into difference of like Benjamin, public figure back in my home. Wow. So. A lot of a lot of awareness in Kenya yeah and surrounding, countries maybe yeah. I've. Only really been focused, on Facebook. More recently in the last year when I started realizing the power of the brand and what cachet, canary, I had been doing really nothing, and I had a little bit of an organic following, so. Then I started this show which also it's like me sitting down with people into being I think it's suited for podcast they're having around them but Facebook, here's the great things so for example right now this is a podcast as well what's, amazing about video. Is you could strip the audio yeah, like I have a top 100 podcast, in the world and I never sit down to do a podcast it's. Just ripped audio out like I'm sure it's probably gonna be the I'm, sure that rant with me and Tyra is gonna be an episode in 7 to 15 days. So. You so you should rip the audio yeah. And now, you've got a podcast yeah, and. That's important, don't create friction for your audience some. People want to listen you know what I mean. No I think I think you bill, if you're filming you're doing a show in your film. You've. Got a hundred podcast, interviews you strip the audio and upload it you, don't even need to use anchor you can upload it. Find. That time and then in terms of Twitter I love, the engagement, of it I mean that's. That's. It's. The easiest, gateway. Into the game you. Don't need a designer you don't need a video person I just. Engage. All. You see that look I think. There's. You the. Biggest rule is you like, for example I don't put myself with, photos with famous people I I. Don't like it I don't know why I've spent a lot of ever, asked Tyra for self like I don't like but other people think and but. That doesn't mean I'm right or wrong it's.
Being, Right or wrong for yourself but it's content you got to put out content and, people, overthink it and and, overthink. It and then you're just not producing. It's. Going to be the leverage because this, world is bigger than traditional. So. It's going like this so, you got to do it and it will get you there or or, it will just become it you'll. Realize that you'll be able to keep all the economics. For. You okay. Really. Resonate. Is not just my head, no. Correct. That's, right that's, right I mean like this, is you know I'm so, I knew, blogging, was gonna be big in two thousand two three four but I didn't do it cuz I was I was running online business I didn't, have the luxury of being able to afford a writer and, I, can't write like. It's just not my thing and so I had to watch that whole train go by, yeah. I mean, that's. Why I think it's so special about amateur internet now they're all in play right whether, you want to do a podcast or, audio whether you want to do video whether you want to write they all have massive, scale and, so like I feel like I mean you could be a cartoonist, you could be an animator like our ability, to communicate, yeah. I think, that's I don't I don't I do that as what everybody's, going through. I. Get. It. And bath bombs, my. Kids. I struggle. With growing I'm actually hurt, of all my images are consistent, how, many well because because. That's. Just that's just 1/10, of it all like, a growth. Strategy around distribution. Matters like what. Hashtags you use who, you DM, how you collaborate, alright, you know is it fully organic, is there's so many barriers. Because. You know cuz all your pandering, to is one vanity, metric, that. Isn't the indicator, to the reality it's kind, of the philosophical question we had there we're. Just having too much surface level combos surface. Level no strategy surface. Level right, I. Would. Tell you that the people that are growth hacking and getting, five hundred thousand followers the wrong way prick, the masses, but lose with the real currency and then lose. The. Real. Version, of follow, for follow is, spending. 40 minutes while. You're laying on your bed because you're passionate about it hitting. Hashtags in bath culture, and going, in reading. Or watching or looking, at the photo and then meaningfully, writing, two sentences, to add to the conversation. On the photo that you just saw got. It it's. It's everything. You're hearing for me is like do the right thing good things happen do the wrong thing wrong it's. Actually, that black and white. I, want. To talk about starting. A following, yep, and I think you kind of went into it a little bit with you yeah it's one of the things that I'm really interested in is I'm moving to New York and I'm going to be an investment bank okay and it's a space where you don't see a lot of black women you know. Services. This, is like a huge home run for you yeah, that's kind of the group I want a 20% and I'm debating do I try to like start, my own hashtag, and following or direct nobody owns a hashtag, there's. No such thing. Because. By nature it could be hijacked, once it becomes something there's. Nobody that owns it. So. Don't even think about that ever again, because. Think about it like what it whatever clever, financial. Plus-size, african-american. People whatever you come up with yeah, if God would. Forbid aka, I hope it, gets going well then everybody's, gonna use it it's. Not an ownable it's a utility, for discovery it's not an audible thing so, you would say like for example there's a hashtag I love F your beauty standards, and a lot of plus-size women follow I'm aware of it I know all about it and I wonder should I start putting content, out there and using that hashtag that, that, to me is a hell of a lot better as long as you're not doing it where, you. Have to be thoughtful right cuz for example if you go cash tag right now Gary the wine club which is my wine club there's, like six spammers, who are just putting their propaganda, over it so all my fans who are watching my wine videos trying to find other people talking about wine are, getting inundated with shit if, you jump into and ride a hashtag, you probably, want to be respectful, of the hashtag, yeah so obviously because you're part of that culture, fine but, if then if all your content is very hardcore finance. It, kind of defeats it so you have to be clever and, your spec phul okay does that make sense. I think my second custom was so where. When you're starting to think about this the way I think of it is probably, start with Instagram, like get my face out there like my out by, well. Well dependent let me ask you a question are you trying to take note to that.
You're An investment banker that doesn't look the part where, you're just trying to build overall, personal, brand equity. So. I would tell you I would tell you that you really have to get serious about Instagram, and, get, serious about, writing. Or making videos on Instagram okay, because, you're, going to make a quicker. More. Meaningful, impact on that platform in my belief because. You're gonna start with people that are living the game versus. Aspiring, to the game, Instagram. And the psychology. And what's going on there I think you're gonna find a lot of friction now I would say do both, but. I would highly recommend you. To give a lot of thought to LinkedIn, and to, whether you write or you audio or your video yeah communicate. That's Instagram, and then writing blog posts and posting. Them into my link that yeah to me to me use, link, use LinkedIn, and Facebook as, your blog because, there's built-in, distribution. Whereas your own blog at first oh yeah, whereas that was right in the early 2000s, I think building a blog comes secondary, now because you can siphon, the distribution. And awareness from these platforms, and, what's really crazy and I don't think people realize this these, platforms are rewarding, long writing I will, tell you one of the weirdest hacks that, like I stumbled on by accident, and this is why I always do so much cuz this is how you find it it was one LinkedIn post I wrote I just was in the mood just wrote right and. It did well I'm like okay things are saying you know that I think. Instagram, is one of the most interesting places to start a blog, where. The photo is, 50, percent of the equation it's, the right there's just so much it's why I start with attention, where there's attention, there's opportunity, and what. Something, starts as evolves, television, does not look like the television shows that started as theirs evolution. Click. You're welcome good luck, yeah. By smooching. About. Different. Messages different, things you talk about like I like, retail. And it's been instructor I want to like write like short stories good, things how do I push them through the different channels and do I have to dedicate one channel do I, love, where you're going with this it's a really thoughtful question, a couple things number one every, one of you are fundamentally, different when, you're in a different social network psychologically. You are fundamentally, different when. You are literally on your phone on LinkedIn versus when you're in phone and Instagram you're just so different you can't even imagine just, like you'd be different in class than, going to, Vegas, with your girls for the weekend we've, got multiple gears, so, yes I think distribution. And that's, what I alluded to very quickly distribution. And content, are so much more married, than they've, ever been so, yes I'm very thoughtful, about what, I put in LinkedIn versus, what I put I mean my, Delta between especially, because who I am and I play that way the, Delta between what I mean I'm putting things on snapchat about, like a little. Van and which. I'm not gonna put on LinkedIn. Right so I'm playing very, high low, and. To, that point as well on the. Flip side I, actually. Think a lot of times the white space is, being. A little bit bubbly, or funny or light-hearted, on LinkedIn, I think breaking the normal patterns, also, works so, my, interview question is all, the cliched shit that we're all thinking right now do that 80% of the time right my business stuff on LinkedIn you know did it but, I do think 20% of the content to throw it off it also works, because you're breaking up patterns. Like. No. No, and I think this was the point I was making it we obviously went into, the outer space with it I don't, think a single piece of content is as heavy as everybody else does, I don't, think if you're branded, as a singer on your Instagram, that if you made a post about your little sister or liking cheeseburgers, or or. Like what, you thought about yesterday's, tornado, that's, some like, catastrophic. Event of you br