The Future of Esports & Sports Betting | #AskGaryVee 304 With Strauss Zelnick
I, love. Chaos I'm doing 800 things and start doing it that's right and any time I know I'm about to do so I did vaynermedia, head down for five years to build a foundation I don't think all people this. Everybody. That's gary vay-ner-chuk, and this, is episode, 304. Of the askgaryvee, show, and. I'm really excited for. This, next guest and we're coming in super cold Nick. Do my team said hey I think Strauss, should be on your show I'm like 100, percent being. Invited to a Strauss. Party, maybe nine years ago and then in the tech kind of media scene was, a super highlight for me and. Some. Of you who know me know that Ben lair is a very good friend of mine and earlier. That like. Three months earlier than that party, Ben, and I suck. You know how like guys, or gals get into like a meme of like something that's funny to them somehow. A movie called Ghoulies became. This like really. Funny thing for you know that movie. Was. It. Yeah. I was a little bit of both here's, the punchline somehow at Sundance, this, movie. Ghoulies which I didn't know about, but, then like in this weekend it became the most important thing in my life so, then a couple months later we, go to Strauss's house for this event or what have you somehow, we're not a lot of people are left and. Somehow. Me and Ben are just somehow, it gets referenced, Ghoulies. Like we say something it's like the inside joke it's the meme and Strauss. Goes I made that movie which. To this day is, a top, like, 10 stress, and I have not spent a whole lot of time together we have a lot of mutual friends I have an enormous amount of admiration from him from afar we'll get I'm gonna let him paint a five minute context of his career and then we'll do some Q&A because I think he's gonna help a lot of entrepreneurs and then anything else stress on your mind I'd love to know you. Know anything. That you want to talk about but the, Ghoulies thing is a top-10 moment like like from. The heat I, think, everybody can associate with this your friends, random. Becomes something you all talk about from, this was like white-hot, like, I basically, said the word Ghoulies eighty-seven, thousand times over a one-week period and then one week later the man who, greenlit, the movie, it.
Was An amazing about it I don't know if you I. Do remember the story you know I am probably gonna like ruin the whole thing i made, i'm not trimming easily, I made Goonies. Or Ghoulies, and I never went to look to see which one was ours after. We had this no you, would if you made Goonies you would definitely know it you know who, zis is, the greatest movie of all time maybe, they're gone YZ or Ghoulies but anyhow we you know we. Made the worst very. Cool YZ which everybody is worse, that's. The one America, yeah we are not talking about Goonies what I think is actually a top 10 movie now I would, remember no. No we didn't make a Steven Spielberg. You. You you made Ghoulies which, is a movie. That nobody under do, Pete what's going on you got something. Yes. Yeah, it's it was, anyway, nonetheless does look familiar that's what everybody's, watching who's ton of entrepreneurs, a lot of business people why don't you give everybody like a three-minute, like kind, of comic, book episode one who who. You are your career a little bit about you so on the career side I always wanted to be in the entertainment business from growing up for no particular, reason where's you grow I grew up in Boston and then New Jersey yeah and a part of their Z South Orange loved it very close to Wine Library my, my wine store was in Springfield Short, Hills not very close right those guys and I. Went, I went, to Wesleyan, undergrad, I went right to grad school out of college, because I didn't, want to work and after, a couple more years in school yep and I was trying to figure out how to get into entertainment and a friend of a friend helped. Me get my, first job in entertainment, which was a summer internship, at Viacom, and, I. Worked. There you, know I. Had an amazing summer, met some people that led to my first full-time job was which was at Columbia Pictures, Television, in. Sales, which. One really what I had in mind I wanted to run a movie studio but okay good place to start but flat out that, young age you like that's what I mean I knew I wanted to run a movie studio when I was 5 years old and I really and I didn't how did you even know that exists, how do I even I didn't watch like I wasn't allowed to go to the movies particularly, of it was a comparin, stalking about know is completely made up my dad was a lawyer so um no.
No Clue but, I was committed to it so, uh so. It real quick just for one more time cuz I need to rewind, that you're. Not sure cuz you're young how it got into your zeitgeist but. You immediately became committed to it yeah, I think I had some sense like that it was very glamorous, yes and that you could be looking at five you cared about the girls already mmm, I think it was more about the money aspect. Yeah. I guessed, wrong keep going yeah, little, did I know yes, there better ways to make money um anyhow, I got recruited from Columbia to go to what what was then the largest home. Entertainment, company, a vest, Ron it's, the early days of home entertainment that's how long ago was and. They. Were launching, a motion, picture initiative, and I became. The. President, of the company like nine months later so I how old were you that's 29, right. Basically three, years out of school yep and I mean I didn't to say that I'd know anything is a gross. Understatement I used to say my friends are like this, is a public company and. It was the biggest. Independent. And there the, question was like why would you be president this company my my, answer was well definitely, not competent, for the job definitely, glad they gave it to me so, I I did that and you know at this point you know a lot of people were listening like these days 29, having, a big company or a big job not, insane. Wasn't, that either you know enter Tim no no no, they it's always been in business that gave young people opportunity, know was definitely, I mean, you, know is precocious but I'm first of all an old person. Talking about what it was like to be young and successful as, pathetic so I'm not gonna talk too much about that but, no yeah you know Barry, Diller was in his early 30s when he was when. He was uh when. He was chairman of Paramount so he's not not at all unheard, of understood, for successful, people I bet. That went really well because the first picture I greenlit became the highest grossing independent, film of all time which, I do remember, which was dirty dancing and then. You know we and and that's that that we. Made we, made a bunch of other movies there were some that did very nice I mean this is how the conversation went down with no no no we made Ghoulies I'm I'm, I know you're committed to it but I think it's just I just don't want people like look at I know people are gonna be if it's not a vest Ron movie it's not a bestfriend movie like I completely made it up and now Gary's like it ruined the rest of his night, so it either was or was not distributed, by vest Ron and I'm gonna I just don't want to get the ugly email saying I made that movie how.
Could You take credit for it so. But. Was it distributed, by vest Ron, yeah. You had a face or who's like where's catalog isn't in now and then I could tell you anyway moving, on that, went pretty well I was recruited from there to become president of 20th Century Fox good. And, I was president Fox I was, a great run we had a whole bunch of hits, so, after being in the movie business for seven years I really, sort of revised my goals having met yeah I thought was a very long-term goal pretty quickly and I, decided to revise my goals say I really want to do something that's in entertainment. But also highly, entrepreneurial, and I, sort of surveyed the landscape and I said and this is 1993. I said you know I think video games are going to become a huge entertainment business. And I, went to a company, called Crystal Dynamics which, was a pre-revenue, video, game company, is the first CEO, built. That company up and and. Then. After, we sort of got it to critical mass I left to do a turnaround of a huge record company back in the days when that wasn't an oxymoron, no it was called BMG, yep, and I went super well took it from, last. Place to nearly. First place and it would have been first place but one. And two merged so. We, were second place but you know it was a great result we had a lot of great. Hits and turned around the Orsay label and other things and then. I revised my goals once again and said okay my goal now is to run a diversified. Media company that's supercharged. By digital technology and that was well you was that that was a 1 and that was considered. Somewhat. Out there I mean people got the memo on digital technology but. I was always seen as the new media person, and I, kind this was post, April 2000, where things melted, yes, that's. Right and I and and you saw that as the opportunity, I saw it as an opportunity I mean most people thought it was a terrible time my view is there's never a good time you know there's no time when you're starting a business and you look around say wow this isn't awesome time it's always hard that's right but. It was it was the time when I was ready and I I'd I was, done working, for other people and so. We started what has become zmc. We had just you know it's always fun to tell these stories so we had no offices, no capital, no people, not, really a business plan and I, started the business with three hundred thousand dollars of my own money. So. For the last 18 years we've been building up that company and today we. Have assets. In the many billions of dollars and, very, little debt great, deal of cash and, we. Own a number of leading companies and the media, communications. Like and entertainment. Business well our biggest company, is take two interactive which is a leading. Video game company the third largest with. Titles like Grand Theft Auto and Red Dead Redemption and, the a2k, Borderlands.
BioShock, Civilization. Many others. We. Own. With. Partners nine story which is a leading Canadian based, animation. Company great great hits and great titles. We. Have an investment in a company called, dynasty sports we. Own IT renew, which, is a so-called itag company, it's, a pretty arcane part of the data. Center space we're, big believers in the growth of data. We. Own, canelo. Which is a leading direct response television advertising, company, add thrive, a digital, advertising company. And a, number, of other interests and what's. Happening, with your day to day these, days within, that ecosystem. My. Day to days I'm a partner DMC, and I'm the chief executive of take 2 so, but. But take 2 is a part of zmc, so we have I have the luxury that I I'm able to both invest and operate in the, media business and I am, able to you, know our entire thesis is around is based around the. Notion that technology will, continue to transform, and inform. Median. Entertainment and we. Only best behind the thesis and the reason that we've never suffered, a loss and we've been able to grow a very, significant, business from nothing at. Least so far is, because. We don't look at you know we don't look. At what's happening tomorrow or next quarter or marathon. Year we, look 5, 10 15 20 years down the road and so far we haven't gotten it wrong so no one people. In our business and we did have access to capital or we couldn't have bought these currencies, people. In our business were buying, newspapers consumer, magazines, and that was sexy and appealing, we, didn't, do those deals because we thought print was compromised, whores were right we. Did however by an online market research company before that was sexy and obviously, took over a video game company you know seven that, was very nearly bankrupt, and the, perception, was that company you know was wet no chance of making it that company's market cap today is. About. Ten billion dollars a little bit more, what's. Uh what's. Your what's, what's kind of most exciting, you right now as you look out five ten fifteen years I. Think. This. Is just the beginning so. For a lot of people a lot of people think that I just heard this at a got a conference you know we've kind of established what, the Internet can do we've kind of established with digital technology, can do it's all gonna settle down and now you know the move forward in digitally. Driven media will be evolutionary. Not revolutionary, I completely, disagree I think the next thirty or forty years will be the most exciting, time that, the media business Everett has ever seen and you will see it in every part whether it's b2b, which were in or b2c, which were in or pure. Entertainment which, were in or. Infrastructure. Which, were in and the. Reason I believe in that is, several. First, well. First is right because I think was obviously right yeah that's, the answer yeah in the 1880s, you know there's a head of the US Patent Office said I think pretty much everything has been invented, so. You, know I yeah. We just keep inventor, either. Doesn't. Allow them to historically, understand the context or they. Are financially invested in, the, outcome that comes out of their mouth and often not frankly emotionally, invested a, hundred. And. Staying head of change it's. More emotionally, invested change scares I don't you appreciate this right like to me I'm of course financially. Invest in all the things I do however. Because. I'm an entrepreneur I'm. Putting, my money where my mouth is, versus, hoping, that the exit that the thing, maintains, for the next twenty seven months because I need to sell my stock at twenty seven months and go do what I want to do personally, after that yeah was horrible way to live by the way I whenever, people give me a story like that I'm like see here's the problem with that plan you could walk outside and get hit by a truck tomorrow you had to be careful about delaying, for that so, anyway I think.
You Know if you believe in Moore's law which I do you. Believe that whatever data. Consumption you want to project from five years from now aggregate, data, consumption, you're wrong it will be more couldn't agree more you, want to project what devices will look like so, Nick's holding an iPhone I don't know which one looks like a nine. Mine. Its new or. Ten so. That that form factor in, ten years we'll look back in that form factor and we will think it's really funny I'm. Looking at a couple cameras in here these form factors will look really funny in 10 years they just don't hurt some people don't it's history, right so, you know rad as, the Walkman was I know you do yeah of course I think it was just like the plays you couldn't believe it the, razor phone, was the single most important, status item Seth. You're old enough I'm impressed, like yeah. People are, unbelievably. Confused, about how. It actually works, so what we do you, know as we look at the world and, we try to think about where that's going to be in five or ten years and then you, know to the point about preservation. Versus. You know innovation. Or disintermediation, we. Are to be the ones to, disintermediate. Ourselves, and. That's a very hard task but. If you're worried about cannibalization, in your core business you should be the one cannibalizing, your core business or someone else will do it for you the something. I said to a buddy a long time ago that i use a lot i'm just first time I said and I'll never forget I said look I'd rather put myself out of business and have somebody else do it for me exactly exactly, it's exactly right now and, when we when I got to the record business in 94, the first thing we did was launch websites. Which was innovative, right and start thinking about how we can do digital distribution by the way we didn't do such a great job but we were trying really hard, we. Were surprised when the Napster's came along we were prepared for it and we, were best positioned than any about blockchain. Blockchain. Look I I think the notion of, a widely, distributed network, you know for computing, is fine the, problem with the blockchain technology, is so far anyway in, for, for you to create the additional nodes you have to create an incentive for people to create the nodes right and so far the incentive has been currency, that's right and so if you have something on one hand has no owner as highly distributed on the other hand has, no built-in, incentive, a bit of a question the Internet built-in, incentive, which is I want to express myself yeah or I want to transact.
Or. I want to have you come see something it was human um but, it's hard to know in the absence, of currency. How, you're gonna make the blockchain work, and then when companies talk about it I'm convinced. You know when big, big big companies sir I mean people talk to us in the game space about all the time when apply blockchain, technology the video game business I'm like please, tell me how that works be and. Variant. You just know that they're putting hyperbole, around a statement and so right. Now like do I believe in cryptocurrency I don't I know they're plenty of people who do my, attitude is um I believe in speculations, they exist all the time of course but anytime a so-called currency, goes from ten dollars to, twenty thousand dollars to thirty six hundred dollars in the, space of like my recent memory that's. Not a currency that's something, else it's not a currency, so. And and for people who transact, outside the legitimate, economy, they don't really care because, their margins are so huge that, what they care about is private. Transactions, but. For the rest of us who have like I have a really high margin, and most of my businesses, but I don't have a sufficient margin to, offset that kind of currency so I understand so I'm. Not a believer at all in cryptocurrency, I think, about sports betting I'm. A huge, believer in sport well how do you I mean first of all it's a little late in the day since the US government already said we believe in it we're, taking it from the governor. Or government saying it's okay yes, to the state's regulating, in a way that works be complicated, and you've got a very powerful I grew up in the liquor business between. Cannabis, and sports betting two things in the macro I deeply believe it right but micro is different and so, you've got massive. Lobbies very, powerful, lobbies, who. Proven by the way that they can effect a legislation. Of late who. Have not just of late, right. But in the casino business where so, what do I believe that if you're already in the casino business in the US will you be able to engage in broadly. Distributed digitally. Driven, sports, betting yes, do, I believe that we as a, non. Regulated. Non, gaming, company, can, take our sports titles. And turn, them into gaming opportunities, it. Would be wonderful to believe that and I'd be you know if, I were in the business of promoting our security publicly, I would say yes I think, the answer is the option they exist but there are a lot of regulatory hurdles, yep there, they're obviously far fewer over them internationally. Talk. To me about I'm, gonna ask you a question that I'm curious about so I've been really enjoying similar. To blockchain, and cannabis. And sports, betting the. Notion of eSports, teams, watching. A lot of people deploy. The. Logic, around something as you know this is where I get interested, I think this is from afar and then you know it's. Very clear to me listening to you there's a lot of things that we cross over and agreeing on I'm fascinated, by people's inability to synthesize. Things in lieu, of what they hope or, emotionally. Or financially want, to happen watching, people deploy, eSports, strategies, in today's environments, fascinating. Because, much like what you did to whoever says to you we're gonna do this blockchain, thing I always say the same thing I'm like please explain to me why you think League of Legends is like the major league baseball system, right and when you get into even a basic first question and, you want you watch people dance in front of you, what. You, know now, that I've got a better framework of how you process and, it's probably why I like you you know what's. Your take on on the eSports, ecosystem. Around the IP holders, versus, how, the, teams think they're gonna conglomerate's, the pattern we're in the business right so we and we eat our own cooking yes but our view is that like. Major sports we, believe in eSports er yes 150, million people who watch eSports there, are a whole bunch of people you're preaching so for, sure it's real it is however the, League of Legends business and, it's a billion-dollar business and in, our world video game business alone never mind the media business never mind the sports business video.
Game Business 130. Billion dollars a year currently he, sports a billion dollars it's a teeny little business, and the bulk of the market is League of Legends and I say that as someone who's a competitor we have the NBA 2k league yep so, I. Think, there'll be somewhere, between, three. And seven, powerful. ESports that will develop in the same way that they're between three and seven professional, sports leagues a truly matter you. Know you got you. Got football a baseball, you got soccer especially, some, of these iPS will come out really, lock in and absolutely. Will create will become and they'll become very valuable yeah and do you think teams will be able to sit on top I'll play in all of them so dividuals, like I don't see a world and this is perhaps wrong yeah this, speculative, where, you, the good news is for all the things we've been right about we've, been wrong many, times right yep and what I say to people actually and ask my advice especially when the entrepreneurs, isn't this is one person's advice but. If you ask the great entrepreneurs if, when. They talk to people about their ideas people, all said, high five that's awesome, that didn't happen so you shouldn't listen to my ideas if you truly believe you should go do it but in the case of eSports I have to eat my own cooking I'm betting on I'm paying for it yes so what we said is look people love playing, NBA 2k it's, the biggest sports title in the US has been for years. People. Love competing an NBA 2k they're doing it anyhow so, wouldn't it be sensible to have teams. That compete at any NBA, 2k and then a. Broadcast. If you will learn twitch yep those games that seems stand to reason and so, that's why we're going, for it do I think those teams should be, both. NBA 2k, and the other legends, and an overwatch, next there's no real analogy, for that in professional, sports I'm a little skeptical, I think if you want to be the best NBA 2k player John Sanders, might just pop out of the side here yeah you know it's possible and it's a different skill set no question I think if you want to be the best NBA 2k player you're probably not also going to be the best overwatch, player do you what, I think is most interesting about your saying to me is will. They bake will, three to seven titles bake or because. Of the notion of the framework, different. Different, than creating a ball centric, sport which is what, we're coming from we're, literally to me look ea just has you know has a hit and it's like will, it be more like the movie and television. Business where in perpetuity. There. Will be games that capture, three four or five years or are you, saying Marvel. Star, Wars you know there's I'm never saying that I know that's what is sport, but Marvel. And Star Wars there, still will be a Forrest, Gump there still will be right, and so it's gonna be they'll be interesting is if I'm, actually just literally as you're talking like ooh so, maybe it bakes three to seven and or. Maybe, baked six and you're always an environment, where another, four are always getting five-year, runs and seven, year runs versus, the kind of five they get a forty year run I'm.
Skeptical, Only because team, play, watching, team play seems to cluster. Around these, very. Ancient, forms. But you know what this, could be an example where, you, know history just isn't a guide of the future because after all League of Legends does not look like hockey, football baseball, or, you, know soccer that's right so it remains, to be seen. I feel, very obviously very good about our bat because. I feeling. Down yeah yeah you're right in the pocket but that's it it's really about once watching an Instagram Facebook put in your phone numbers Calvin's, ready to call we, have, to give you an opportunity, get some access to this wonderful thinking, you ready for that, one good yeah you can ask personal, questions too not just business question I like business question do you is there anything you want to talk about that's person I know anything you bring up I. You know I like I like. I like, trends, I like macro thinking, I love history you, know I like, the way you're kind, of storytelling, because it's contextual, which, is I bet on context in human behavior it's. Not super complicated and, I'm patient we are unable to complete, your soul at the time now you up probably I'm gonna go to next column well, actually. Speaking of that and, that's vegan Mel no not Mel and hold this for a second speaking of some of our similarities, how much do you get excited, about analyzing. Things. That are popping in culture is that something you give a about things, that are poppy yeah like cool. So that makes sense to me based on how we're talking all the time give me something is there anything that's on your radar right now that you're like huh, or. Hmm. You. Know like or what's the last thing with. Nine year olds or kpop like what's in the hmm. I would say hmm has been the most recent. Social. Media apps that kids are using tick tock yes that I had no I was not familiar with and you, know that's musically, reincarnation. Yes exactly, so what I have I have a young, guy yeah who every month comes in and shows me what's happening popular culture that I wouldn't run into smart I. Know. This is actually something I think I knew her interns he's great on that note you've, done it he. Had a delete any inappropriate stuff, before he showed me respect he. Thinks you would give a how I long he's compared as always great exactly, you. Do a good job of that right like are you. You have you know it's funny you just said I don't know what that triggered me but it seems like all of a sudden my brain just jiggered and I feel like I've come across over the last ten years three. Individuals, that talk about spending, time with you or having lunch with your breakfast with you you're, doing that game huh I spend. About 25. Percent of my time coaching and mentoring people, at all stages of their career all stages including people are older than I but, it does ten skew younger and, and. I, didn't do it for any other reason except, that you know I make light entertainment for a living and I really thought it was important to find some way to make a difference and it, seemed that I could do that he came and I saw I had an open door and when you have an open door in a business it's hard to break into like entertainment you know what people come home and so.
Anyone You were I did it oh you got to tell you I didn't do it for this reason but. I've developed, an extraordinary, collection of friendships from doing it of course so it's it's actually been amazingly. Worthwhile, and after all that's how you and I met Dan. Brought you to my house super set yeah. Who's. This. So. Tic TOCs on your radar yeah yeah yeah, and something next month what's interesting about that in the macro is it's it's, people, using, something to help them create hello hello I agree, who's, this Andrew. Andrew. Yes, you're Andrew right, yes. I'm, Gary so else is here - hey, Gary say. Hey. Thrice how you doing I'm good how are you. Good. Just. About to take my daughter home but. How. To put my number up there how to tell, you. Gary. You've been an inspiration to me thank you very much, thank you brother really appreciate it is. There anything we can answer anything on your mind anything we can answer for you, so. I, just. Created, it well let me start off. Been. An entrepreneur almost, so, that was like nineteen okay, I'm gonna say okay my. Father's been a hustler you know he. Sold pot, he, sold, water. Filters, everything, he's. Always been telling me you, know all. We you, know hustle, hustle hustle where'd, you grow up so. Yeah. That was whoa. What a New York, love. It keep going new year new year so. One. Day I sat down with my sister, we. Actually opened up a liquor store yeah. We got about that go. Ahead. Yeah. So, how's, it going no III do it sweet, thanks, Emory you and your sister just sit down and the, in the sofa in the living room like let's open a liquor store and boom you open a liquor store. We've. Always kind of thought about it and actually, a place I'll, play opened, up now. When I business I just took it over. No. We just start, from scratch we don't know a bit about I, love it liquor stores so how's it going sorry, um. Oh. Not. So good why not. So good what what's your hot take what's, your early how long have you had it. Five. Years what. Are you what's your read so not your hot take you're like educated. Guess five, years in what's. The, struggle, in your opinion. To. Beyond to just a lot of things just you. Know lots. Of customers. Just. Maybe include, maybe does, not bind enough liquor you. Know it's, for. Cost and everything art, is your yeah you know one of the tough things about the liquor business in the Northeast. Specifically. In New York and New Jersey is it's much more of a price market, than people realize it's, hard to differentiate when. People know what they want especially, if you sell liquor and beer one of the reasons I took my dad's store, from, shoppers, discount, liquors to, Wine Library was. Very quickly as a 15, year old I said oh. I am, not convincing, this 80 year old woman that just walked in that's, been drinking. Johnnie Walker Black for 52, years to. Try some other Scotch that I could make more money on and the same thing became real for me of like truck driver Johnny he's. Drinking natty light like it's hard for me to move him on the wine side there, was this exploratory, kind, of I don't know anything about line I drink Kendall Jackson and Santa Margarita and silver oak but I don't I'm berry insecure, maybe you know something else what's this Wine Spectator and Robert Parker and I found my creative. Opportunity. And then once I understood why. Acres mattered I started painting pictures and, what picture getting allowed me to do was, split. Up the business I sold everything everybody. Knew about at. Cost. I literally, sold Budweiser. Shaffer. You know doors. White label scotch Santa Margherita everything. That people drank that they knew that everybody knew every brand, I sold a dead cost and I, spent every, single cent of my, energy, life that, you would walk in because you knew we sold Budweiser at cost or more, importantly specifically, to wine you knew that we sold Kendall Jackson and Santa, Margarita dead costs there were the two most important items and I would. Intercept. You through, my merchandising. Or actually being on the floor at first because we were small, company and I would try to story tell to you why Santa Margherita, Pinot Grigio at $12.99, was, overpriced, which it was which having, truth on your side was great and while you needed to try this 999. Pinot, Grigio but, oh by the way I was making $4, a bottle on that versus, zero on the $12.99, and then when you tasted, it and you and you liked it better at least in the same ballpark I started, building trust, you're, in a commodity business you, have to create a differentiator.
Yeah. Well. Instead of standing behind the register wing for people to buy. Honestly. Yeah, I'm, not gonna sell it we're about to sell it actually okay I'm moving on to I'm not going to move on to nice projects, you know I'm a local I you, know do a little bit everything I sell jewelry, I'm, a DJ I'm, a local DJ look. Span. And I'm one but one of the reasons the liquor store might be, failing is because you're doing 87, things which means you're doing no things, yeah. You gotta focus yeah it's, basically your Allegro that's. A good point like to me listen um um. Um. I I love, chaos I'm doing 800 things and you start doing it that's right and any time I know I'm about to do so I did vaynermedia, head down for five years to build a foundation I don't we call people this we got a lot of lines of business now you had a bunch of companies. Want people calling, brother good luck hit me on a deal hey, can. I stress go ahead can I can, I mention there's one thing that uh I want to tell you I called about I just. Started this new application I'd I just made it up, on the iOS store. Is. For local DJ's and local photographers, I feel, like this is gonna be the greatest thing it's, gonna build a two-way marketplace to help people be discovered, right, yeah. Yeah, the hardest business in the world that everybody wants to build that's why eBay and we were on trillion-dollar companies, you know but go ahead. Yes. My so my question was how. Do, I gain the trust, for, my users to start signing up, you mean the supply you know the actual DJ's the actual those people were the consumers, to find yeah yeah no, just actual, DJ's, because, it's when they start signing when, it started. My. Intuition my, intuition on a limited context I have 6 minutes and 13 seconds into you I would go hand-to-hand, combat, go, hand-to-hand, combat, localized. DM, meet people shake. Hands kiss babies, get those first 50 to 70 people people. Forget that uber was in San Francisco for well over a, year almost two full years before. They even came to New York right, everybody, wants to expand just win where do you live right now. New. York no good young, win, Yonkers, one. Step at a time I'm already impressed that you got into the App Store a lot of people talk they dream I appreciate, the execution, not sure how you did it yeah there's an app win.
Yonkers Win, Westchester. Let's, just start there and how do you do that okay. Go to Google and go, and go to Instagram, and use hashtags, and find the 50 to 500 local, players in your market and go, buy them some french fries give them a free, bottle of booze figure it the out handy, I. Want to say the name come, on good we'll. Give it to you, and. Evently evently. Yes. Good name to me, yes do, you know, why I love the hustle brother good luck good. Luck I think especially, was saying no I said, a lot of entrepreneurs will come and say you know I want to have I don't want to just do this thing I would do this, thing and then my that division I want that plan, and don't they'll outline three or four goals at once and you know what I say is I've never seen an entrepreneur, not once who. Started with more than one thing I've seen plenty who, haven't started one thing and made it successful, moved on so, I would say you know as entrepreneurs, go Bill Gates pretty, good entrepreneur, he started, with desktop, operating systems, and they with that for a long time long, time on time yeah. Actually this is a good segue because this is something passion about it might be a good place to take kind of our back half of this meat of this interview. Entrepreneurship. It's. Become a very different thing than what, you and I knew, it to be for a very long time right. I was a bad student which. Was unusual for immigrants from the former Soviet, Union all the kids you know I I, took. A lot of ELLs along the way. Because. I just couldn't be anything else I just didn't. Have it in me baseball, cards or anything else then wine bubble uh you know I literally sat sophomore, year in high school and would read The Wine Spectator cover. To cover and that's, why I got these in F's in science and, so. It was just it wasn't viable you, know I was this poor student and and I was doing all the I was making for $3,000 a week and selling baseball cards but every parent of my friends and every teacher told me I was gonna be a loser there wasn't even the framework, in.
1992. 89 to see the world through an entrepreneurs, eyes we. Are very much not there now that's right we are now in the other place where. Career. Students, have decided they're gonna be the next Zuckerberg right, what. You know I'd love to get your perspective on. The, state of the union of entrepreneurship, through. Your eyes based on the way I framed it up are you well, I mean things happening it's easier to approach the world I mean we just talked to someone who owns a liquor store who just got an app in the App Store and you know as you point out maybe if he goes and hustles and promotes it could take off yeah pretty crowded place I. Was. Making I was just kind of having a little fun with you but trying to educate two-way. Marketplaces. I mean, that is 9,000 times a day am i DM and email I'm gonna because they what I like is people scratch, their own itch they, see the pain they, just don't realize how difficult, it is to build a monster that's base but nonetheless so I think you know it's. Always been hard to build a business that's, highly successful it's, still hard today I do, think the world's a little more forgiving today of people who take non-traditional. Paths the cost of entry ah no, it's just got a little more popular because you know really really really smart people like Mark Zuckerberg don't, complete college and going to be hugely successful but, in fairness Bill, Gates didn't finish Harvard there he's my age so I. I think, the. Front cost to get in the game though have changed, yeah the upfront cost is way lower scale, the end code to get to the end consumer the opportunity for, great success is still the same and, and, what about Mike you know I apologize, micro success something, I'm getting outrageously, passion about and really the book that put me on a map you, know a lot of people like hustle and they take shots at me I'm like did you read it because really what I'm saying is my intuition, is 2008, is the way the Internet's going specifically, on social is, there's, a lot of people can make 69 thousand a year being thrilled being, an expert in Smurfs, or selling Jam who, are making 80 this was my thesis you could make eighty eight thousand, having, a job you don't love or 120, or you, can make seventy nine or maybe 140, being. The foremost experts of Star, Trek and that's what played out so, that's for sure the case our company at thrive allows, independent, publishers, to, make a great living some. Of them actually are immensely successful sin has become huge for, some people it's a difference between making twenty thousand dollars in their spare time and making a hundred thousand dollars a year which they can live on and live, on nicely especially, in stress this is something that has happiness has to be talked about I I had lunch with an entrepreneur, today and he's, in the fitness space and he. He, had, walked away from a, very big and successful. Career, as an, actor to, be to, go into the fitness space knowing, full well he would likely almost, likely, person permanently. Make, less money because, it pleases him and, it's what he loves to do and he's passionate about and therefore he's great at it and he, it is his joy to spend his day in. The gym improving, people's lives and, and no he's not living, horribly, because he's so good at what he does you know my feeling is you're, really really good at what you do generally, speaking you'll make a living the, other thing is most people not, everyone most people are not once, they have food.
Clothing. Shelter and, the ability to raise and educate their, kids most, people don't care about incremental money in. Term in terms of what truly makes a difference in your happiness some people do know some people do I don't like people don't especially if, they can get into a place where they can deal with outside judgment. That's right and don't aren't, so insecure that they need things to prove things to people actually they don't when they're self-motivated. So one of the you know when I coach people the. Question I start with is what, is it that you want that you truly, want not, that other people tell you not, they now you're trying to prove to somebody exactly what is it you actually won and think about with that life look I asked you a question for. Me it's very clear I love the game of itself the, process, is so much more enjoyable than the trophy, like do. You feel like you're a process, guy well, I'm very much I'm an achievement guy I've decided I like doing. Hard things yeah, and that's why if you look at what I do I, do turn around say really, hard things India. Sometimes. I think like I'm intentionally, the guy walking up the hill with a backpack full of rocks and if one happens to fall out I pick, up another one if I run into you I grab your rocks too so I'm not sure it's always the healthiest got it but I like doing super hard things and then pointing, not to others to myself that. I was able to do that that means a lot to me. Maybe. Too much to me though I care about the money that comes with it yeah I enjoy making money because it's, fun to make money it's certainly nice not to have huge. Financial constraints. And I don't want to minimize that but, it doesn't does it motivate me day-to-day no achieving. Interesting. And hard things motivates, me and working in a field I love motivates, me I love, media and entertainment and I love working with creative people which, is how I spent about half my day, so. In the last 10 minutes here that that really matters, to me what, did we not cover or what from, your is there anything you'd like to talk about I. Think. I covered a lot of it there are lots of things I like to talk about but.
I Think you sort of covered it towards the end which. Is you know what, are we all doing here and it's tempting to sort of focus. On you, know are you gonna be successful or can you make it or with a liquor-store be successful, how do you have hand-to-hand, combat, to make, your app successful, you, know I think the thing I like to talk about is stepping back from them which is why are you doing this and you, know if the answer to the question is yes that worked out then what's the question yeah, you know if I say to you you can you can have it it's gonna work you, know it'll be what you want how, many people have actually thought about well what, exactly is that I would say the one thing that, I'm super, proud of is it when I was really young I knew. Basically. What. I wanted my life to look like when I'm this age and while, of course I couldn't have predicted it perfectly course it's, pretty close, it was and the other thing is it's not for everyone it's, not for everyone but it, is for me and I think one of the reasons feel some. Satisfaction, is not because I feel like I crushed it not like I feel like figured, out and certainly not because I'm the most successful, person on earth I don't feel any of those things but. I set out to have a certain life that would work for me both professionally and personally and, more or less that's what I got man I got to tell you if when, I tell people. After. Wishing people, that I care about health boy. Is. Self-awareness, the next thing that always populates, because once you map that stuff. Can get real interesting, yeah and and and and more, peaceful 100%. I appreciate being on the show thanks for having us see. You guys you keep asking questions we'll, keep answering them, hey guys thank you so much for watching my video on YouTube I wanted to jump in here at the end because I'm working on a ridiculously, important project for me and I have a funny feeling you, can help if you drink, wine at all or know anybody, that drinks wine at all please go to empathy, wines calm, right now and sign, up for a subscription whether. It's a three pack whether it's a six pack or whether it's a whole case of each for, the year, if you drink thirty six bottles of wine a year or give away thirty six bottles of wine a year please sign up for club empathy this project, means the world to me I could really use your support.