The Business Case for Product Inclusion (Cloud Next '19)
Googles. Mission is to organize the. World's information and, make it universally, accessible. And useful and. I really think the universal, part is really what we're talking about here right so, we're not just saying for some we're really talking about for everyone, and product, inclusion, really works to ensure that when, you're building a product or service you're, thinking about everyone, you're thinking about the dimensions, that make them who they are and in. The intersections, of how they walk through the world and you want to be thinking about that because we, all have bias and we want to make sure that we're bringing in as many perspectives as, we can so, that we're not unintentionally. Or inadvertently, excluding, certain. Types of people and. So. With. That our team's mantra, is really to build products, for everyone with, everyone, there's. Another thing in the accessibility, community nothing. About us without us and I think that that's really important, right you. Can't try, to assume, that you, know what users. Need without actually, asking them and asking them multiple, times throughout the process right, I'll. Use myself as an example as a black, woman, I have. Certain experiences, that affect how I walk through the world but. One that doesn't mean that I can claim. To know how all black women want to be served. Or have certain. Products. Or services made for them and so it's really integral, that you bring those reflections, and experiences, to the table at those key points, in the product design, process and, so that's really what product inclusion is about. And. So some of you may be wondering all, right like that's all well and good I've heard diversity, inclusion appeals before like, really, like let's, get to this business case that you you, know got me into this room for so. There, have been other kind of studies around the, business case for inclusion, so, BCG. And others, have looked into kind of why. This matters, past the kind of it's the right thing to do right we've all heard diversity. Inclusion is the right thing to do and and our, team really believes it's more than that right there is an actual business, case, for diversity and, inclusion so. When we look at things, like the. A cup of a team for example what, tends to happen is that even. Though getting to a, conclusion. Or an end result may be a little bit harder to do because people don't have the. Same perspectives, or backgrounds just because of again the experiences, or dimensions, that make, up how they experience, things or their points of view the. End results are going to be better because there are different kind of backgrounds, of experiences or innovations, that will come at that end result and so again, there is research, around, this we, won't get into all of it but again we have a bunch of experts who come from different parts. Of Google. And YouTube who, will be explaining. Kind of like what they've seen and why they believe this is so crucial I. Love. Bringing. Receipts as they say so, I wanted to give you some stats on. Why. This work is really important, right and so, when, you look at kind of the world right now, and where the world is going, demographics. Are shifting and they're shifting rapidly right so, when, when. We talk about the business case for inclusion I think there sometimes is a misconception, that. These. Are small, demographics. We're talking about and that they can be deprioritized. And so I think what we want to do today is to make sure that everyone leaves with the, understanding, that even though some, of these demographics, may be in the minority that, doesn't mean that they're. There. Isn't purchasing power or these that these aren't demographics. That should be prioritized because they do have a lot, of purchasing, power or, they. Might actually just be really big pieces. Of our population, right so to call it a few of them right there's 1, billion people in the world currently with a permanent, disability that's. A really big swath. Of the population, right. 1.4. Trillion the u.s. black spending. Power, purchasing, power by 2020, right, so these are some stats. That. Our team looks at all the time and and again, helps, product, teams across, Google. And YouTube think about as, they're building and building for everyone. The, exciting thing about working, on the assistant is like, brave new world where we're creating something that's gonna speak in a personal, conversational, manner I'm Beth Tsai and I'm the policy lead for the Google assistant, there are no, rules yet because we're creating them we had to design this character, that's gonna be at the mercy of the internet people were gonna say, racist.
Sexist. Homophobic whatever, stuff so how can we you, know give it as good of a chance as it can I'm Emma Coates and I'm the character lead for, the Google assistant, personality, my favorite, part of it which I hope someday we can have is that it had a pet puppy gift, that. Was just a gif. Part. Of the challenge of doing the policy for the assistant was figuring out how, we can make sure that the product is inclusive that we can make sure it's safe to be partnered with diversity inclusion with. Randi raised and that team and we. Partnered with trust and safety search my colleague Bobby Weber we were trying to suss out what, topics, are, very, controversial. Things. Can just go wrong terribly, right and, as, soon as you start thinking about that diversity, is, clearly. Integral. To this process it, makes you think a lot about how what. You're creating. Makes, somebody feel so. Working with with, Randi we went out to the IRB's here, at Google and we invited members. Of his IRB's to come, in and participate in our tests in order to really build for everyone with everyone we need to have those perspectives reflected. I'm auntie Jean Baptiste. I am Google's global product inclusion evangelist, Google, has always said focus, on the user and all else will follow if you're thinking. About a challenger, product, you need to make sure that you're intentional. About expanding, who your users could and should be it's super valuable when, you have, enough. People coming, from a. Point. Of view it, helps us to keep. In mind and to write for. The, diversity, of the audience that the assistant, actually, is reaching. Launch time it was becoming more and more clear that we, weren't gonna have tons, of user escalation. Maybe assistant, no. News is good news. We have billions and, billions of, queries we've only gotten, reports of. 38. Queries, that were so offensive that we needed to actually like, take action, point zero, zero, zero. Two. Percent, I think it's a testament in general to the the success of the product as a whole in the cross-functional, effort to making it such a safe inclusive. Product, we stress test now for all, of the assistant, launches we want the assistant, to be you, know a product for everyone we want the voice of Google to be something that speaks to everyone this is probably the thing that I'm proudest, to worked on. Alright. So just wanted to give you an example of what this looks like at Google right so what we did with the assistant, was to bring in people from different backgrounds, and perspectives because. They were the best position. To be able to tell us what, could potentially be offensive, or eliminating, for their communities, right and so, with, those different backgrounds and perspectives we. Were able to adversely, test the assistant, before launch and as you heard we, had very very minimal escalations. And so I think that kind of shows not only is there a ton of purchasing, power and potential with diverse communities but, it's also really effective to make sure that you. Can take out potentially. Alienating, or biased, opinions. Or, features. Before, you launch a product as opposed, to having to scramble after, you, launch something that you may not have thought about, I mean having to fix it and. So before, we kind of jump into, our, panel, I wanted, to leave you with three principles, the ABCs, of product inclusion which, are to address the diverse needs of current and future users, as we saw those.
Stats Those, numbers are growing and shifting very rapidly to, build for everyone, with everyone, again that with everyone is the important, part and the, C is to constantly, test and improve for inclusion right it's, not enough just to ask. Diverse. Participants, or users one time and the if. Their. Perspectives. Are needed and get that feedback it's. A constant. Iteration. It'll, never probably be right but that's okay and. Something. That you're constantly, going to have to work at and that's the exciting part and. So with that we're, going to jump into our panel and. So I'd love first, with. The first question for our panelists, to, introduce themselves. To. Tell us what, brings them to this work, and, what. Excites them about this work frankly, I. Happened. To be holding the mic. Yes. My. Name is Kat Holmes, I am. UX. Director at Google I joined just about eight months ago. And. You. Know I am, also the, author of a book called mismatched, how inclusion shapes design and. Prior. To that I worked at Microsoft where, I built the inclusive design practice, over. A course of multiple years the. Reason I came, to. This, topic really was I've, been working in tech a really. Really long time and. You. Know the this was explosion, of diversity, ways that people interact with. Technology today, and as, I was working on, the. Design of an AI called, Cortana, at the time it, was a voice based interaction, and realizing, that there were a lot, of people missing, from the room who had expertise, already in how to speak, with, and interact. With computers, through their voice primarily. People, have limited use of their hands and we're using speech commanding, or someone who's blind and listening. To their computer kind of direct where they were going so. For me it's really been, a conversation, about ability, based, an interaction, based diversity. And that extends, far beyond, disability. And thinking, just about how a human being interacts, with technology and vice versa and, that's just led me down this. Amazing. And unpredictable, journey. Of, learning. About all the different types of exclusion. That happened in design and how we can help make, those more recognisable, so talk about that a little bit more but I came to Google because you. Know the the group of people working on so many different facets of inclusion here really struck me and I want to dive, into that more with this cream so, thanks for being here today. Hi. I'm Samuel, and I lead, engineering, and YouTube music and, my. Interest, in this topic started, several years ago when. I was working with the Geena Davis Institute. On. Films, and helping. Them from the Google side to say what. Kind of gender biases, and gender gaps there are in mainstream. Media so, in movies, on screen and behind, off screen how, are women. And men being represented. And what are the gaps there, and, as. We were doing that work I got, curious to see how, YouTube, does, in that area, because, we are an open democratic platform, with, no gatekeepers and. Unlike. Traditional media, we don't really regulate, I mean we regulate, in terms of trust and safety point of view but, there.
Aren't Really like these networks, saying, this, shows ok and this is a popular, show do this it's very democratic. And, it, was really interesting for me to find out when we looked at some, of the science content, on the platform both. From the creator point of view and the consumption point of view there, were gender, gaps similar. To, what we see in, traditional. Places. Around the world right, and that. Was very eye-opening to, say why, is it that the human behavior is. Actually influencing, something, that's supposed to be an open democratic platform, everything. Is machine learning based everything is algorithms, how, are machines. Sexist. Or racist or. Whatever, biases. That you see in the world how, is that coming in here and that's. When we started digging in and started, lots. Of different efforts across Google. Both. In YouTube, and outside, where we said let's change the, conversation, of diversity. At Google to. Not. Just, include, diversity, in the workforce and in our hiring practices, but, expand, it to also talk about diversity, in our products, whether, it's design. And marketing, and visual design point, of view or your. Machine learning algorithms, like what are the kind of by a seas that might be there and also, in testing, and how you roll out the product, and so, that's my interest. In this area and how I've. Been involved here and it's. Really exciting to see how you. Know over, the last four, to five years this. Conversation. Has gone from people just give blank stares, when you talk to them about it to, people, there's a whole roomful of people interested, and engaged and, really, taking action, towards bridging, those gaps so that's really exciting for me. Hi. Everybody my. Name is Donald, I worked in trust in safety, so Beth that was on the video best sigh she's. A colleague, of mine and, mission, of trust and safety is to protect the, online safety of our users and, within trust and safety I focus, on machine learning fairness. And ethical I and the. Way I came to this work is a couple years ago I developed a personal, passion to, help as many people as possible. Understand. The root causes of the the biggest problems, the biggest challenges in, society, things, like homelessness. Poverty. Mass. Incarceration. And. So there's a there's, a tide of that with ml fairness, because my mantra with ml, fairness is that in order to solve for fairness we. Need, to have a deep understanding of, unfairness, and. A lot of those issues that I was interested in helping out in helping people understand.
They. Have a historic. Basis. Based. In exclusion. Unfairness. So in order to help people understand those issues I want to focus on helping people understand, unfairness so, what I focus on with. The machine learning fairness, and ethical my colleagues, and I work with is how. Do they get a deeper understanding of, the history. Behind things, that are showing up today things, that show up up show up in datasets. Original. Have an organ that is like hundreds, of years ago right and so we, oftentimes, we focus on the inputs, but. We really need to be focusing, further back on the system that's generating, the data in the first place so that's my main kind of emphasis within the. Teams that I work with. So. I loved, it, I. Think, but it might have been cats so apologies. If one want. To give credit where credit is due but around the shift you've already seen where, there were blank stares before and now they're people who, are interested in this topic on that, note, what. Do you think has brought, that shift and how are you influencing. Peers and colleagues to, think about this and and with, that what do you think is, an, inclusive mindset, so we all have kind of a common, language and framework to continue this conversation. I'll. Take a start, yeah. The I think there's. Multiple. Factors I think one is. Kind. Of cultural and political climate, in, one sense is really highlighted, some of the. Dire. Made invisible. Perhaps, more, of the. Real. Impact. Of these. Underlying. Maybe. Less visible to mainstream. Society but, certainly present, for a lot of communities and I think that becoming more visible has. Been one thing that's driven a conversation, around inclusion I think, too, that also the, organizations. That have been, called upon for a long time to take action in the space, patience. Is running out and it's time to be doing something that moves. The needle for real and, I, think. Those, that kind of intersection of the tech and culture is just spiked, in. The last five years as, well back. To you. Know just just simply how many people, are now participating. With. Mobile devices and.
The. Instances. We're seeing where there's a real impact, of exclusion, or an impact of. Not. Being able to use, products. In. An equitable way, and. Then I'd say also that there's there's a rise in. Communities. And individuals offering, up solutions, and a lot of times these are people who have experienced, exclusion, for. A long time in their own ways and are, now in leadership positions and, bringing. Those solutions, to light in a way that can be connected to a, broader audience so. I would say that that those, are some of the things and then the second part of your question, what. Are you thinking how, would you define an inclusive mindset. Oh oh. I, want to hear it but panelists, so to say I I would I would say that just really quickly, our. Default is an exclusive mindset. Primarily. For the most part it just is kind of built in especially, in some. Cultures. That. You know this protection, have. Things that we want to like shut, shut. Other people out from from having it starts really young starts like kindergarten, age and so, I. Would say that the, practice, of constantly, working to, offset. That exclusive, mindset, is the, inclusive. Muscle, I'd say to builds the muscle has to counteract, that that deeply, ingrained cultural. Mindset. That we have around exclusion. The. Mindset one first I thought about this a little bit to me the. Inclusion. Mindset is one that is very humble, right. That has humility, and that, realizes. That you. Realize that you don't have all the answers that, there's some blind spots that, you're. Not even going to be aware of and so starting from that perspective is that there's no way for me to know everything I'm probably missing, something I think, is the beginning in. Terms of what has kind of one, of the things that's contributed, like spending. A lot more time, talking about this I think, machine. Learning has a lot to do with that the, sort of sort, of you, know conversations. That I'm having within a corporation I've been in corporate working corporations, for like 30 years and the. Sort of conversations, that I have working on ML fairness and ethically I within, a corporation, they. Still shocked me because. The. Fact that the machines are reflecting. What society, is telling it is. Forcing, us to reckon with these questions, in. A serious way one. Reason is because there is you know business on the line but. I see it as like a really. Great opening, to, have conversations, that weren't happening, that. Need to be happening. One. Shift, that I saw definitely. Within Google and also across the industry. As a whole, in. Terms of changing, those blanks, too to actually being interested, in it in the topic I think for many people, inclusion. And diversity when. We were talking largely, about balance teams and why do you need different perspectives. Seemed. Very, much like, this. Is the right thing to do and that's why we should be doing it and there wasn't that emotional, connection or. Connection. Back to metrics, that they were trying, to move which, allowed to bring in that empathy, as they, were doing product design and the. Shift that I definitely. Have. Been getting behind and in, in, conversations. And dialogues, to. Drive. Google's, focus, and that has expanded, outside in. The world in the tech industry as, well is to say, yes. Maybe it is the right thing to do or it's not who knows right, so. Let's not talk about it from that angle but from a business point of view is. There growth. That, you're giving up by, not having an inclusive mindset. Or by having exclusions. Into. Your framework that you're not even aware of so, the unconscious. Bias that, you're bringing to the table in, your product design is that, leaving a lot. Of consumers, that who could be engaging, with your products, not, actually, engaging or creating, an unsafe environment where. It wouldn't right so and we've been pulling examples. Across, not. Just tech but other industries. Over time over the years where. We've, seen, reactive. Inclusive, thinking, how it has addressed gaps and opened up markets so. A classic example is the. You. Know the airbag safety, in cars so, when they first launched, airbags, it, turned, out that it was more. Unsafe. And caused more deaths with, women than men and they, really didn't understand why that was happening until. They, actually the. Team kind of reshaped. It it's thinking, and started, looking at the testing, that they were doing with airbags, and realized. All the models, that they were using for the testing were men male, modeled.
After Men. And women's, body type is just very different so when you put women in a real car, crash their, risk of injuries, was like I think 40%, higher for women than men so, once they change how that design, was done, suddenly, airbags became a safe thing like none of us have cars without an airbag anymore. So I think that kind, of examples, has. Helped people think in terms of metrics, so even within YouTube, we, optimize for watch time so, when you look at watch time it's just keeps growing, and growing but. When you go one level deeper and say let's look at the demographic, data whether it's ethnicity. Or gender based. And see, are we leaving people segments, of the population out, then. You suddenly there's, an aha moment and say okay I'm missing, out on all these engagement, opportunities, on the platform, we, really should be addressing that so it truly does accelerate. Growth of your products, and revenue. Not. To say that's the only thing that's important, but I think that helps, make it more tangible when. You're running a business and when you have to prioritize with, constrained, resources. So. I'm just taking my job because that was the next question but that's okay. So, are there any other surprising. Or interesting. Products. Or solutions or examples, that, you've run into that anyone, wants to jump in with. I. So. There's all, sorts, of in, our daily lives things that were invented, and created at first to resolve some kind of exclusion and some of my favorite examples are, keyboards. The. First typewriters, were created. Actually. One of the very first ones created between, a inventor, and a, good friend, of his who. Some. People rumored, that they were lovers so when. They were apart they wanted to stay, in communication, but. The. Count. Has, his. Dear. Friend was blind and so, in order to author, your own letters and this is like in the 1800s, you usually, had to dictate it to somebody else who would write it down for you and, the two of them work together to invent the first prototype, of a typewriter and. So you know we've all benefited from, those keyboard. Designs. Flexible, straws another. One that started as a design, for exclusion, that then has benefited many more people. Email. Captioning. In our videos. Audiobooks. Like. Across the board and there's a broad range of these stories that these you know these products live quietly in our environments, and, we, may not even know that that's how they originated, so. I think we're seeing also this new wave of solutions. Now coming from different companies as we think about the. Enterprise environment, the way that you. Know people the, hiring processes, you, know taking a closer look at how people move through a hiring process and Latinas that we emphasize the, abilities, and. Characteristics. That we have the size and companies starting to revisit, and evaluate, that the. Workplace itself the communication, tools that we use you see all these interesting little places where they start almost to your point on being, humble Donald. And like these humble innovations. That then take. Root and. Really. Propagate, quietly, sometimes, they don't need to be marketed at the highest, level they can be something that just really makes a difference and then sticks for people so. I love, it there's so many examples to just. Look around and, draw from. Yeah. I could I mean I think the the one that comes to me is like the emojis you know we all are texting all the time we're using them and we. All were just taking it for granted that, they were all kind of yellow looking emojis, but blonde, hair and, and. Even, though it looks nothing like me like it was green that comes up with it and everything right, and it took a group, of design experts. Within Google when we were doing, this whole inclusive. Design hackathons. Across Google, to say hey like let's take a pause and say what. If he introduced, more wide. Variety, of these to. Represent, men and women girls and boys and more non, stereotypical. Roles and, also. Allow, you to pick different skin, and hair color options. When you're doing these, so. A simple, thing like thumbs up you can choose now the skin color that you want in it, and it's just pretty amazing and, suddenly now it it just feels more connected. To the user. Which i think is such a simple, idea for think about it but had been overlooked, for so many years and we all were okay using it so, I, think that's a very powerful example.
No. There were a few. We. Talked a little about movies, so. There were a couple that I thought about one was Black Panther right so that was you. Know it. Broke all sorts of records and a lot. Of people wouldn't have expected that so I think it opened up a lot of opportunities. Just by it being more inclusive and showing a whole different perspective on the world and, then the other one is I just saw the movie the. Horror film us, which. Again was one kind of another. One of those movies told told, from a different perspective. That's. Breaking, all sorts of records and. Kind, of opening, you, know places. In the field just by having by. Letting, folks that have been excluded from, those venues to be part, of it and. Then the final one is I. Like, movies. Moonlight. I saw, that a couple of years ago and the way that that movie basically you know included. African. Americans, issues. With bullying. LGBTQ. Like, all that in one movie I was shocked by how they did that and how, I'm sure they brought all sorts of people together in a movie theater that aren't typically together. My. Kids love this movie Coco and I, think it came out very much for, the Latin, population. And. In. I think that's how they talked about it when they made the movie but, to their surprise it's, actually done really well not, just here, and for, the audience they targeted, but, also an AIPAC, and when. They dug when they were digging into that to find out like why is it that it's working even. That has nothing to do with any Asian culture, and they're it's, because I think just. Seeing the representation. Of someone who's not, always. Portrayed in movies. Results. In a connection, that, then allows. Other audience, to start engaged, and so, I think that's another non tech example. Just. Another hat on one, thing that Pixar, did and just to the films because, I love it's such a great example how. Films have shifted and one thing that Pixar did, I thought was really interesting is, they were looking, for how I started with it we're committed to inclusive. Inclusion, we're committed to diversity and we're looking around we don't see directors. We don't know many directors, who might represent the, communities, that we're looking to tell stories and they, they had to take a hard look at how they were curating, movie. Stories like they had to say they had to look at, maybe how using shorts, program, like the short films, and opening those up to anybody. Inside, the Pixar who, was in any role, inside. That company could contribute an idea for a short film and it, fundamentally changed, - started to show up and say I have a story to tell and you see a lot of stories drawn from personal experience, but, then it's about, growing, the, skills, through. The story right and so, that randomly, then changed, who became. A director so starting, with looking at how they reshaped the, process, and it, then shaped who could show up and then it shaped what stories made it to the you. Know the theaters I think, is great I love that I think that's really important, to just thinking about the. Holistic process. Right like it's not just one piece of the. Process that's important, it's like who's, telling, the story right, how are they telling the story in what language are you localizing. It versus just translating. It right like there, are a lot of pieces where you can bring an inclusive lens to building, a product or service. Okay. So, we, touched on this a little bit in, the overview but when, we think about underrepresented, users. Many times. The. Narrative is that these are very small populations. And so they should be deep prioritized, when we know that that's not necessarily true so, how, do we start to shift the narrative, that inclusive. Design or product inclusion, because core to the business for us just and nice to have. One. One, tool that's worked really well I've found is, you.
Know Finding that, connection based on interaction. Like you know and this is where I I tend. To talk about ability first there's, lots of different lens that this could be applied, through but thinking about you. Know designing something for, someone who was. Born with one arm might, say okay maybe you know only eight million people in, the United States or, you know even fewer maybe, eight million people in the world have been born with one arm seems. Like a relatively small percentage of the population but, if you design a solution that works well for someone. Who's born with one arm then it also works well for someone who's got an arm injury and, it's temporarily, unable. To use one. Of their arms or who is carrying a bag of groceries or, a newborn infant and so, finding these connections, based on what, is it you're actually trying to solve like, what's the the interaction that you're trying to, the. Connection you're trying to make the the solution that you're trying to put out in the world and then what is the kind. Of, extended. Benefit, that, could reach more people and I think, the in particular design, thrives, on good. Strong constraints. And, that's why understanding, what, types of exclusion, exists in the products and solutions we make gives us a good starting point for then saying okay if we were to design this really well for somebody who, did not have the economic. Resources to participate in this on a bank loan application, process let's, go understand, the the language, barriers. People have as they're applying for, you know immigration. Status, through an online tool let's. Go start, with that as the design starting, point and if you make that work well you will very. Much, so, benefit. Anyone. Who's looking at around for that system because you've solved for kind of the core need that. It needs to address, so. That strong constraint, I think is one way to draw the connection, from a business case standpoint, that you solve it well and you will be able to reach a broader market but you just have to think about your markets beyond maybe, a traditional marketing demographic. Categories. And more about the behavior and interaction, that people are using when they come to. Use your products and services. So. To add to that it's, about, sometimes. The numbers may not be. Big. Right, now but, it's what's projected, in the future so, you should a slide earlier on saying, like, what is a future, usage, that's going to happen so this definitely happened for us in Google. As we were, at, the. Next billion users, right. So when we were saying you know we're very we. Are a global company, and which markets. Do we want to start building, and optimizing, products, for there, are markets, which don't, seem big right, now but, the rate of growth of for, instance mobile penetration is, so, high that you know even though the number is small today, in three years from now or five years from now it's gonna outpace. Like. A whole country somewhere, else so, I think it's really important, to know, what, to your point of Constraints, what, is it that you're optimizing for, and, how. Long, is your roadmap and then work your way through because none of us have unlimited, resources, you do need to prioritize, and I. Think. The whole thing about inclusive, design is not. So much that on day, one or your v1 of your product you have to solve it for everybody, and anybody. Out there but. To be very intentional, about who your target users, are and be, aware that who are the people that you're serving and not serving, and who, would be the next set of people that you need to address as you, evolve your design because, it's an iterative process and you you kind of have to prioritize. It with the metrics in mind. Yeah. I think this, kind. Of what Kat said I think it boils down to you. Know if you're going to if you want to solve for.
Inclusion. You you, need to start with a deep understanding of, exclusion, and so. Taking. The opportunity, to actually look for needs. Within these populations. Of people that are excluded versus. The traditional, you know you. Know you, know who, has the right socioeconomic status, for me to target. Because I think they're gonna be able to afford this look, for problems in different places and when, you solve problems for those people, you're gonna have something problems, for people who didn't you didn't expect you would solve it and solve those, problems for so. I think that's one key thing and I think the other thing is to start to shift, the mindset in terms of. Your. Sources of expertise, so. If you're in a room and, everyone looks, like you you probably don't have a good idea of what the problems are out there that need to be solved I. Think, that's like you know starting to view. Folks. That are in these excluded, groups as, valuable. Sources of expertise, invaluable, sources, of expertise, is the sort of mind shift that I think needs to take place. I'm. Gonna skip through a few questions so we make sure that we have time for Q&A. So. Cat in your book, you talked about reducing, customer, turn when, we emphasize human diversity in our process and products, so we'd love to hear you speak a little bit more about that so. Can you see the first part I didn't hear you sure. So. You're writing talks about reducing customer turn, when we emphasize human diversity. Yeah. I think. You. Know several several, ways to look at that I think, human. Diversity. Is often, categorized in, particular ways it's almost the same list that, we moved through and you know I grew, up in in Oakland and diversity. Was a very. Common, part. Of conversation, throughout, my education, but we always kind of focused on this you know same groupings. Of people the same ways of thinking about people and. And. So. When, we talk about how somebody interacts, in the world, there's. Something that opened up for me was something that shifted there the. World Health Organization. Redefined. Disability. In 2001. Well they published. A definition that existed, for a long time but they they defined disability as a mismatch interaction, between the. Features of a person's body and the features of the environment in which they live and. What. Stuck for me about that is you know we as people who make choices about interactions. And, how those are designed and, you know somebody comes in experiences, the things we make that, every choice is either increasing. Or decreasing those, mismatches, so, when I think about churn, is like how long can you expect somebody to, endure, and interact with a mismatch, before.
They Just feel like it's not for them and or. They're just turned. Up tired of putting, up with it and so. Understanding. Those kind of mismatches to a degree that we. And. Then. Brings somebody into, the process the design process and what are the workarounds, what's your point on expertise what are the skills. And expertise that you use to. Navigate all of that, complexity. Is. A, real. Strength. So one example is, in. Game. Console. Design. For. A very long time the controllers, have. Been pretty. Much it you know iterations, of the same thing the same kind of shape you can kind of picture pretending, to hold one up but, almost. All of the controllers since the beginning of console. Gaming have required two hands to play in, some, fashion, and. There. Is a whole community of gamers, who are so committed, to, playing, that. They have created complex. Workarounds. Custom, software custom. Tools to. To game and. The. There's, quite a few companies now that are bringing you. Know disabled. Veterans, or, disabled gamers into their design process a well how did you figure that thing out like how did you create. That you know code in the background how did you create that that rig to fit your body and then. Let's, go think about how to design that for more people and I think that that's, easy in a place where people not easy but it's when, somebody really wants to play they. Will go to those lengths, it's almost like a game itself, to just play. The game and, there's, so much richness, and also a real hardship, and in creating, that but. When we think about a place where somebody may not be so patient. With us right. You. Know application. For sending, out, an email or this, hiring process, how many steps do we have to make people go through on a website before, they can just have a conversation with, somebody you, know what are we really designing. For in that hiring process so the. Point on churn is more so that understanding, all those little places where it's a big small, or medium mismatches, if, we can address those it helps move people. Through the experience to really get to what it is they want to like what, they want to bring and how they want to play. So. Yeah I'd love to hear about your, pioneering, inclusive, design at YouTube and if, you can give an examples, of what you've worked on. So. I think I touched on some already in previous, answers. So. Some of the things that we've done I think one I like maybe we can pull the slide up it's like, we, started YouTube kids I helped start YouTube kids and at that time we were, first. Trying to say like we. Know kids you see oh do you know families, you see oh do you really need an app designed, for kids and then. So we brought kids into our UX labs this was the first time we had kids in Google, in a UX lab had, to get a lot of approvals, and permission, and once, we got them in and gave them YouTube. What. We noticed, was they. Didn't care about anything. On, the, screen other than just the video that was playing all, this attribution, about the Creator the, navigation. Bar and the menus, and things it, was all like blah blah blah for, them like really all, they cared about was the video which, is when we said okay look like you need to go back to the drawing board and think about how, will YouTube, be if you were to design this for kids from the get-go and we. Made this a very visually. Rich experience. And we, also focused, a lot on safety. Because we wanted to give it to families, and make sure the parents were comfortable, allowing. Kids at that age group to watch so we addressed, a lot of algorithmic. Filtering, and concentrating. Issues and it's still work-in-progress is, so much more to be done and. Also repeated. How the visual, design was and to Katz's point, like when you solve, for one community, you, inevitably.
End, Up solving for others so when we actually started demoing YouTube, kids there. Was so much interest across Google for like they were like why is it just for kids even like I might, prefer a more visually, rich experience. Than, something where to click so many different places or. The. Senior population who. Aren't going, to be reading so much maybe we should make it more voice, based because we had voice based navigation, as front and center and the YouTube kids app. Knowing. That kids may not be ready yet to type or read so. They're. Like why not look at that from that angle so, definitely that was one example, another. One which i think is been. A very sensitive topic in, the tech industry as, a whole is the gaming, industry. How. Many of you are familiar with gamergate. Yeah. Many, seem, to be raising their hands, that so, basically, like women gamers, getting, abused, and. Harassed. Through, online comments. And hashtags, and, just. The online community, space and so, we did like an all-women's, hackathon. In YouTube, not, just from tech but in bringing in people across policy. The whole cross-functional. Group and, when. We did that what was really interesting to see is. There. Was a group of combination. Of engineers policy. And, support. That, came together and, came up with an idea for how could comments. On YouTube have, better moderation. Controls, that, will allow creators, to protect themselves against. Harassment like, this and a. Few years later we've actually launched, all these features which has improved, the product, not just for women gamers, but also on the, whole for all of YouTube creators, as a whole. Start. Lining up at the mics Donald. Can you tell us about if, there's a linkage between machine, learning fairness and product inclusion, and how you see that overlap, or opportunities, for collaboration. Yeah. I do see only good so i I've, said this a couple times but, I so. Ml. Fairness, you. Know in. Order to solve for fairness you. Need to have a deep understanding of, an unfairness, and. A. Lot. Of the emphasis that we see is manifested, in exclusion, right, and so that's that's the linkage that I see between, the two and I, spend a lot of time on you. Know what's going to be the social impact of a product how do you think about that ahead of time and, so, one.
Of The things, that we're trying to think about it is think of the the product that you're introducing think of it as some sort of intervention, at. A larger, system and. When you think about it that way you have to think about who's going to impacted, by it other than you and other, than the people you might be targeting. And. Oftentimes. Those conversations, don't happen until it's too late so we're trying to say okay let's have those conversations early I mean, in order to have those conversations you need to bring in people that have totally different perspectives, so the YouTube example. Is perfect it's like what do the kids see they see something totally different people. From excluded, communities are gonna see the same thing that you're looking at in a totally different way you, need to understand, how they're seeing it so that when you roll something out, you're not inadvertently, excluding. Them harming, them and. So that's where I see the linkage between the two because I focus on you know how do you set up the adversarial, testing for. Male fairness some of the same things can be applied to how do you create a product inclusive, product I know. We're at time before, I get. The mean face, from the back I want to thank you all for coming and I, hope this was helpful.