The Benefits of Having Human Resources (HR) for Your Business
- Hey guys Toby Mathis with the Anderson Business Advisors podcast today I have Fred Lovingier, did I say that right Fred? - Yes sir, hi Toby. - Hey from Insperity. So I've known Fred for a number of years and we worked together on a number of cases. I wanted Fred to come in because I don't think this gets enough attention and I think that in light of everything that's gone on in the last year and a half with the pandemic, healthcare is becoming something that is on everybody's mind.
And I think that we need to talk about benefits to your employees, to you even, no matter how big a company you are, you could be small, you could be three people, you could be even a husband and wife, whatever or you could be hundreds of people, there are solutions that are available to you. So I brought in an expert, Fred Lovingier from Insperity, on HR issues, they are partner with United Healthcare, right? - Yeah. We're their third largest client.
- Third, largest client too? - Yes sir. - So they're tiny, no so they're Fortune 500. You guys are massive. - Yeah, it's a Walmart, Coca-Cola and us. - Oh my God.
- Yeah. - You guys are huge. - Thank you. - So you're you would, then you qualify as an expert in this area, obviously, I wanna bring the information back out.
So right off the bat, Fred, what are the big issues that you've seen emerge in HR in the last year, in light of everything that's gone on with the shutdowns, and with the vaccines and everything else, what are the big things you're seeing? - Wow, so it is a great question, Toby. We've seen things moving very quickly and the way we handle and manage our employees. We're getting a lot can I questions where we didn't get those before. Can I make them get a vaccine? Can I make them come to work? Can I hire remotely? How do I make them work remotely? How do we do a hybrid position? So we're getting a lot of can Is' this thing changes and it doesn't matter if you're three or four employees or hundreds, we're all facing the same thing.
And one of the things that we have in our toolbox, is we have experts that our clients get access to, regardless of size, regardless of what type of business would it be great if you could call somebody with 10 years experience in HR that has all the certifications, ask them these questions and get real answers on what you can do. And it doesn't matter because our experts know, in every city, state, municipality, what you can and cannot do. How well would you sleep at night knowing you're protected with good advice from experts? - I think that's actually a really critical point that you're making there and that a lot of people don't realize is you want expertise, you don't realize how important it is until you're in the middle of a situation where the liability like the stakes are really high right now, not just our health- - Yeah. - But also your business, if you do a misstep, are you gonna find yourself on the wrong side of a lawsuit with, a bunch of employees going after you, because you stepped on a law that you didn't realize even existed. And so Fred's group Insperity, how many employees do you guys administer for? - We have about 2 million employees in our group. - Yep, so 2 million, so they see it done it, they've got all the lawyers, everybody and how do you bring this to market? Like, how does, I'll just use an example.
How does somebody who has, just a few employees less than 10, let's just say two to 10, how do they access a company like yours? Can they access a company like yours and what would you do for that person? - So, that's great. So we, it's a big misnomer that we are a very large company, we have 4,000 internal employees taking care of a 100,000 businesses. We are a large company, but we're made for these smaller companies.
We're made to be an advocate on their behalf and our plan, our go to market strategy is to be able to give these companies, all the big companies support that they can't get on their own because they're too small and we wanna come in and fill that gap. So like you said, for a three or 10 person company, we have a very stripped down customized offering for them that allows them to take care of their people, give them amazing software, keep them compliant, run all their payroll, do all the reports and help manage their people. Now here's the beautiful thing about that, they get that team of experts I referred to. And it doesn't matter that they're small, they still have needs, they still have employees and the better we take care of employees, the harder they work and the more productive they are. So regardless of the scale and scope, we want to be able to use our experts with all their experience, to help these small businesses and Toby I know you know this, but your listeners do not, our mission statement of our company is we help businesses succeed, so communities prosper. So we want nothing more to see a business of any size succeed so that our schools are better, our children are safer and crime goes down and our country gets back to work.
- Absolutely, I imagine that right now that's becoming even more critical. So let's say that somebody is out there, they have, it's a husband and wife and they have two employees. They know they have to do payroll, they wanna offer benefits, they wanna be able to do a 401k. They wanna be able to do a health and everything. Is that even possible? Is that something you guys help with, where you can take them down the path and be basically their, a system with their HR? - Yeah, so we absolutely have a system built for that, it's called Workforce Acceleration and it is geared towards a small business that doesn't have the complexities of a larger company. And it's scaled exactly for what they need.
So it has the payroll with all the appropriate reporting and all the appropriate nuances to a payroll. It also has all the administrations built in and a payroll specialist. It's got the ability to bolt on or provide brokered benefits now because benefits are becoming such a big deal, not only do we have the ability to take care of existing benefits, or if somebody wants to go give benefits on their own, we also have our in-house brokers with all of our scope and scale and expertise that can provide those as well to these small companies. And then it comes again with all the HR related compliance so that we make sure you're safe no matter where you're operating. I mean, heaven forbid you wanna pick up an employee in New York and you don't know, you've never been in business in New York, one of our experts can help you with that.
Or if you have growth plans and you see a remote workforce and you wanna pick up some talent, we can tell you exactly how to do that from applicant tracking all the way down to onboarding them and every state in the country. So we're geared for this. - Now, just so people know, like, what is the cost on something like that? Do you have something where you give them a ballpark? - Yep, absolutely. Our starting cost for all of that turnkey, all included about $55 a month per employee. - $55 a month per employee, there you go. - Yep - It's real simple, it's not tens of thousands.
It's not ridiculous, you don't have to hire an HR person. You could literally leverage this up and for a small business, let me see if I can do math in my head, if you have five employees, you're probably talking around $3,000 a year so that you can all their payroll, HR, all that good stuff, good. - Yeah. - And then if I'm not mishearing you, you said brokered benefits.
So you'll help them get the health and the 401k and those types of things. - Yes, either internally or externally, depending on their preference. - Yeah, see, the hardest part that I see that people have is that if they're less than 10 employees, they won't qualify and won't be able to get group life insurance for, with most and so here's your answer to be able to go there and do that.
I've had so many clients come up to me and tell me that they can't do benefits because it's cost prohibitive. Here's an easy solution is working with somebody with 2 million employees. I think that they know a thing or two that they'd be able to help you, perfect. So that's number one. - Yeah. - Number two, let's look at the folks that are in the little bit larger.
Let's say, I think I did give you an example of a construction company that has between 10 and 30 employees. What would you say to them? What kind of solution do you have for a company like that? - So a company may be in the trades or just any company in 10 to 30 employees they're in that no man's land. They're not over 50 where the Affordable Care Act comes into play and there's all this complexity with it, they're not a small business that is pretty well run and it's a small group and they're tight. They're in that no man's land that in between where it's hard.
This is where we thrive. This is where we come in and we can do three things. We can provide our national healthcare plan that allows them to join our group.
And this is kind of like Costco. So when you come onto our platform of 2 million employees, you get that big business insurance, you get that big business rates. - Wow. - And we bring you onto our insurance plan, our national plan. It allows you to really get coverage better than anything that you can get pretty much anywhere else.
It also gives you all the compliance that you need, but here's the catch Toby, when you have 20, 30, 40 employees or more, all of a sudden liability comes into play. - Yeah, absolutely. - There's not an employer around that is not aware that someday they may get bit by an employee that gets sideways. And the ability to offload that liability to us and in turn get some net asset protection. - So I want to make sure- - Yeah. - That I'm gonna hit on that and I know you're gonna go to number three, but I wanna hit on that just for a second.
So not only, so you're basically able to work with them, let's say you have 20 employees, you'd pick up the liability for those employees. So if somebody says wrongful termination, they sue you instead of the client. - We are yes, we, they are on our FEIN.
- So it sounds like you are, it's a PEO service. - So professional. - It is. - Yeah, professional employer organization.
You also get access to the Fortune 500 health plan at that cost, right? Like you're getting absolutely - Yes. - Good deal then. - Yes. And I can go a little further into that, just to put your listeners also at ease.
This is an Arista controlled health plan, which means our company is not legally allowed to make a penny on it. It's a direct pass through and no broker freeze, no residuals is a direct pass through. And so it really is a very strong plan.
- So I just wanna, so you're not allowed to make any money on giving them the plan, that's why you're a partner with United, United is probably saying, Hey, this is a great way to get a bunch of people over to us, we don't have to worry about paying any- - That's worked out very well. - Yeah, for everybody (Fred laughs). That sounds like it's a, win, win, win.
What's the third area you said you were gonna get into, I interrupted you right in the middle. - Oh, it's fine. What it is is it's also that team that I alluded to. A team for safety, a team for compliance, a team for HR questions, a team for your payroll, a team for your performance management, all that comes into play as you get a little larger and nobody on our teams gets to the front lines without seven years experience.
So, you can't hire all those people when you're a 30-person group yet inevitably you will need them at some point down the road. And so the ability to have an entire HR built out team with incredible software, Fortune 50 benefits, the ability to hire anywhere in the United States, you can now attract and retain top talent as you grow and all of that for the cost, usually the cost is less than hiring one good HR professional. - So that's what I was gonna say, it's like, I imagine that you're not able to say here's a set price amount on those that you're probably looking at it 'cause there's so many factors with health and everything else, but you're talking about something, where is it sometimes that it's put in that benefit? Like people actually saved money by bringing over 'cause I'm assuming L&I is gonna be cheaper, I'm assuming things like workman's comp, I'm assuming things like health coverage are gonna be cheaper because you're part of a much, much larger plan, so the risk is more dispersed. Are those correct assumptions that people are gonna save money on some things that some people, it may actually put money back in their pocket.
- Yeah, so you will typically, again, we have to be careful because we have so many clients, typically we will create some offsets in medical and workers' comp, but we actually use those offsets to provide the payroll, the applicant tracking, the experts, the team. So typically you don't realize savings per se, however, now we're back to the part of the conversation I like to talk about, which is year two, three, four and five, because we are such a big group because we control our costs so, well, our 10 year rate of increase in our medical insurance is published is 3.65%. - So everybody else like we're going up some years, 20%- - Yeah. - So you're going up 3% a year. - Yeah. Our 10 year compounded rate, published in our (indistinct) of workers we're publicly traded there's 3.65%. So year over year, those deltas do represent great cost containment and great savings.
- Yeah you may not be able to say it, but I've seen the reports. I've seen some folks that come over to the POS and it's a net positive, they actually saved money. - Yeah. - A lot of times you're talking about the cost of a regular person in HR what, like when we were growing and we're about 400 employees now, but when we were in that 30 to 40 range, the HR was killing us, the cost of the HR person, which they, they can't do everything- - Yeah. - And then when your one HR person leaves, your whole HR department goes into disarray, experienced that once, now that's off the table, you're pretty much able to do everything with your, probably without even a full-time person and just by outsourcing it in essence, Insperity then becomes the employer for these folks and you're contracting with Insperity for your employees, is that the way it works? - Yeah, we share the employees, everything is co-branded.
The only reason we do that is to bring them under our platform, to give them all the benefits and all the protection and all the liability protection. - Yeah. - Business owners maintain full direction of control.
We just want to provide the people part of the business support. - So I would say that if you are somebody between 10 and would it be fair to say 50, or is it even more where somebody should, if they're in that, I said 10 to 30, but it sounds like the magic number is 50 somebody that's below 50 employees probably should go get a quote to see whether or not it makes sense for them perhaps to allow their expansion to occur in conjunction with the PEO. Is that fair to say, or am I putting anything out there that you don't think is accurate? - I would agree with you if you're sitting 10 to 30 employees and you have growth plans, or you want to maintain your talent, you should see what we can do for you. Our team of experts and our offering might be able to free up time and give you administrative relief and represent longterm cost containment. - Yeah, biggest issue that I'm seeing with our clients for that are the mid-sized clients, I'll call that a midsize, I know it's not, they're not as big as what you'd call it mid-sized but for me, that's a midsize is the ability to keep their talent right now that the market is such that people everybody's looking for employees, they're looking for talent benefits really come into play.
Now you're able to offer them full on like, is it legitimately top? Like you said, a Fortune 50, I said, it's Fortune 50 benefits. Is that fair to say- - Yeah. - You're getting something equivalent.
- More than fair. Yeah, you will now compete with government, you will now compete with a Fortune 10 companies, you'll be able to grab that talent. Our ability to add a 401k gives you a complete offering and our performance management experts can map out from day one to year four. So again, when you're bringing talent on, you want to keep them.
You wanna attract and retain them and develop them. So imagine Toby, if you came on board, I said, Toby, we're so happy you're here. Here's what the first week looks like, here's what the first six months is gonna look like, if you hit these checkpoints, we're gonna invest in you with this training and here's where you can go over the first year, we'll make you a supervisor year two, we're gonna put you into management and we have this plan for you for five years. Imagine if you had an expert put that together for you and all of a sudden, now your people, they have a vision into a pathway to be all in member of your team, no one's gonna take them.
- No, you're really good. Right now the secret sauce- - Yeah. - Seems to be benefits. - Yeah. - Our folks
are drifting around and especially if they got touched by this, by the pandemic in a negative way that they're looking- - Yeah - And saying, how do I make sure that I'm addressing it at, how do I cover these things? - Well that's good. And why you've touched on life insurance as well, all of our employees get one-time salary of their life insurance as part of an offering, just every employee- - They have a group policy, is it limited to 50,000- - Yeah. - Or is it on more? - It's limited to 50, but they can get up to three times guaranteed issue, guaranteed issue on top of that. So if you have somebody who's in their 60s, 65, older getting three times their salary guaranteed issue is various, it's a gift. - Yeah. - Or I guess somebody
medically compromised, it's a gift. So, and that's just part of how we take care of our clients. - I'm not even aware of this, but do you have any idea how they're folks that have tested positive for COVID with how they're fairing for insurance? Is that something where they're not being underwritten? Or have you heard anything about that? - That's a great question, I don't know. We have not changed our policy on our guaranteed issue at all. - Yeah, wow. Yeah, I don't know the answer to that.
- So that's a great question. - Professional, so let's say that you are a bigger office up to a 100 employees, so I use the example of a professional office, but let's just say it's a doctor's office, consultant even you could be in real estate management company. I think that we'll go back to this, but there's one that I may wanna hit, which is a brokerage firm, or that everybody's 10 99, but let's just say that this is a professional office with a 100 employees that are all W-2. Do you have a solution for them? - Yes, we do. It is this a larger scale version of what we just discussed, because when you have a 100 employees, all of a sudden, now you need systems on top of support, you need systems, you need software, that's going to be able to give you that, the group and the management level views, you need training, you need development, you need a sizable investment into your people. Because at that point you're a reasonably successful company.
You probably have grown. You're either a victim of hyper-growth or you're planning your next stage of growth. And the things that you need are not only a team to support you with that kind of growth and that kind of group, the likelihood of liability increases. The likelihood of being in multi states can increase.
And, at that point, our software coupled with our team really helps you while providing the liability that you need. It's very interesting, the way that our software works at that level because it can create over 3000 reports that are all exportable to whatever software you're using to run your company and your accountants or bookkeepers, or your Weigle it also, what do you do that you need to have corporate structures, you need to have, your departments have flow charts and you need to have different manuals that are custom written for each department. And so those complexities are things that we thrive at when you get to that level. - So you do all that in conjunction with the owners or their representatives. - Yep and what we do is I don't know an owner around that wants to deal with that.
They didn't get the business to deal with it, but it's kind of a, (indistinct) a lot of the time the have to do it and to outsource this to somebody who knows how to do it and knows how to do it well, take responsibility for it and all the to getting it right and allows an owner to go do what they did well that allowed them to grow, and do more of that, that's a good winning combination. - So if I'm hearing you right, again, liability protection, access to Fortune 50 benefits, you actually have the ability to work with Insperity on developing your flow charts, everything from your organizational charts to work flows, to having individual manuals and particular areas. Do you do all the job titles, job descriptions, all that and then you document everything, so you have the paper trail on there? - Yeah. - Yeah, until you've had the joy of being sued by an excellent way,(Fred laughs) you don't realize how all that stuff plays into it.
But- - Let me chime in on that, just for a minute, just to give you a perfect example of one thing we bring to the table. We have AI software built in that keeps the business owner out of court, that's my saying that's fair. So let's say I'm doing a review on John and I wanna type in a review, John is lazy.
Because I'm a business owner and that's how I feel. The software will flag the word lazy, put in a suggestion saying John rarely finishes his projects on time, even though he has been given ample time and he finished his projects at a less rate than his coworkers. It will suggest that you put that in there instead of saying he's lazy. And we have AI software built into everything we do that keeps our customers safe. - Yeah.
- Yeah. - Like a hint, hint, this is gonna get you sued. - Yep. - Don't do that, here's the way you say it without getting sued. - Yeah. - The same sentiment. - Yep.
And then we still have that team of support experts that even watch it, so we have a two-fold catch, safety net. - That's the world we live in unfortunately you have to (indistinct)- - It is. - About these things. Let's go back to the example that I was just citing.
Let's say you're a realtor, you have your office, you have a bunch of agents, let's say maybe you're a broker, maybe you're just a successful realtor, and you work with a bunch of others, do you have things that are for those types of folks for 10 99, that people that have contractors and things like that? - Yeah, that prior one we spoke about that is $55 a month- - (indistinct) - It can house a process all the 10 99 contractors you have. And we do that in a reduced rate. So our rate for contractors is somewhere around $15. And the reason being is we're not doing a lot of HR related compliance- - Yeah. - We're not doing a lot
of things that we offer so to a contractor that we went to a W-2 employee, we have a special rate for that. - That's pretty interesting. Would contractors- - Yeah. - Still have the ability to get brokered services? So I had a bunch of agents and they said, that's great, I'm a realtor for you and I'm working (indistinct), but I really need some benefits and I can't qualify or whatever, is that even a possibility? - I'd have to look into I'm inclined to say, if they're not W-2 employees, they won't qualify as a group with of course, help with individual plans, but- - Yeah, that- - I'd have to look into that.
I'm inclined to say no- - Fair enough. - Just because of contractor laws. - Yeah, absolutely. No, no I know that they would be able to do a group plan, but I'm wondering whether they would still be able to reach out and say- - Oh sure, yeah, we (indistinct) medical. Yeah, we have to. - That's the hardest part, 'cause otherwise they're going into the marketplace and they're, these different plans that are kind of the ADA stuff, but what they really want is a good plan.
- Yeah. - That's what everybody wants a fair plan at a price that isn't gonna be ridiculous 'cause what they do at group plans is you're just paying up through the nose to get these plans. - Oh yep. - Or you're going to non-qualified plans where they're doing like some of the (indistinct) and things like that, or the world. - Yeah. - Where they're doing
something that's exempt, which isn't disparaging that not everybody wants to do a shared medical group plan, or they're willing to make the certifications necessary to even qualify for. - That's a lot of work. - Yeah. - We'd be happy, we have relationships across the country with some of the top providers. And as part of our service would absolutely make those introductions and intervene on their behalf.
- So I think we've hit the major areas that at least our clients, our listeners would fall into. Again, the small, it sounds like the solution there, that there's a solution where you can outsource basically your HR and it's still your HR and you're getting help with it. Is that the right way to put the Workforce Acceleration product? - Yeah. So whether you're doing it yourself, 'cause you're a small business or you have somebody doing it for you, how great would it be to have a team that can work behind the scenes and give you all the expertise and all the maneuvering you need while helping you to be safe, helping develop and attract your people while processing your payroll and making sure everything goes straight. All you have to do is run your business.
- Yup. I can't stress that right now enough, 'cause you are hitting some nails on the head when you're talking about the COVID and whether you can require testing this, that, and the other, the lawsuits are gonna be huge guys, you just don't- - What's the cost of getting it wrong? - Usually your business. - Yeah. - Yeah. So, or depending on whether you really got it wrong or, and how many employees you have, you may get off with just a few hundred grand slap on the wrist, but depending on where you're at in California, it's ridiculous, but some- - Yeah, then the upside is what's the cost of getting it right? - Yeah, you grow, you can make extra money- - Yeah.
- And you can sleep at night and you're not trying to do HR on the side, you actually have somebody that's their expertise. So that's the small guy, the medium to large, you have the ability to basically use your traditional PEO product where the PEO just means professional employee organization, so is it professional employee or professional employer? - Employer. - Employer. - To support employer. - Yep, so you're outsourcing your, the hiring and everything and the benefit there is you don't have liability for the things that Insperity is acting on.
You still have your employees as a co-branded employee, but now you actually have an HR department with over 2 million employees with all their expertise. Wow. - And you have a human shield in front of you. - Yeah. - And a shield in front of your business. - In the cost of those that it just varies, but it could be that you're at a, you're getting the benefit of the fact that, Insperity has 2 million employees.
So their experience- - Yeah. - For unemployment's gonna be much better than yours, the labors and industry or workman's comp or all those things are gonna be a lot less than they're using it as an offset against their fees. So it may not even cost you much of anything to use it, is that fair? - Yeah and we do our pricing on a service fee percentage of a payroll from the annual payroll and we see everything from three or 4% to seven or 8%, just everybody's different. - Yep - We have flat fee pricing, we price it the same, but it's just hard to see where they are now versus where they'd be with us, it depends on where they are now. - But they- - If they're running a good ship, we're probably not that much extra if they need a lot, if they're, if they're not, then maybe we are, it's hard to say, we just treat everybody individually. - And by disclosure, we've used we're currently working with you guys in one jurisdiction 'cause we have employees all over the place, but we've used PEO in the past, I can to tell you that when you're in that mid level, the part that's, the secret sauce is the benefits become a lot more affordable because you're a much bigger group.
And so, I can say these things just from experience, I've done this and it put money in our pocket. So you're saying whatever you have to say, because the reality is,(Fred laughs) I'm gonna say at the end of the day, what you're looking for is getting some bang for your buck. - Yeah. - And if you get better benefits and they're cheaper you calculate, you add that into the calculations.
So they may cost you X- - Yeah, they- - But at the end of the day, you look and say, what would it have cost me had I done it myself with my own people and getting access to smaller group plans and it's significantly higher. So I get to say that I've seen that. - Well, the other thing is, there's no teaser rates with Insperity. It's a very common a business at 10 or 30, you have to go get a teaser rate in the year two, they get ya, just like that 12-months cable, but you're in a 24-month contract. So with us, we publish our 3.65% increase, there's no teaser.
- Yeah. - So, you're not gonna get stunned or bit year two, or after constantly shocked or degrade your plan. - Now I'm just gonna throw something out there, A, I want you to give your information.
We'll make it available too, but we'd love your information, but you are jurisdictional, so like, depending on where somebody is, they're not gonna be necessarily working with you, they'd be working with somebody that's in their region. Is that fair? Or is it- - We'll take care of everybody that is associated with Toby Mathis and the United States. - There we go, easy enough. What's your information so that they can reach out to you? - So my name is Fred Lovingier and I work with my sales partner, Fred Simons. I can be reached at fred.lov as in Victor, I-N-G-I-E-R @insperity.com.
Or you can reach me at seven, oh, two, three, three, four, seven, six, oh, four, it's my cell phone. And what I will do, Toby is I will also forward Fred's information to you as well, the other Fred. We have a saying here, two Fred's are better than one. - We'll make sure that we put all the information with the podcast- - Yeah. - So everybody can see it, but I just want people to realize that they can reach out it doesn't cost money to get somebody (indistinct)- - Not at all, we're in the business of helping small to medium-sized businesses.
Toby, we've known you for years now, just to your listeners, Toby has vetted us, he's gotten to know us. We've actually worked together. We are very, very happy to be able to support Toby's clients. - Perfect, yeah.
They're literally like the building, we're both in the downtown Summerlin area where the Anderson's office is there, but yeah, we were just, we were fortunate enough to run across and it was funny. 'Cause when I met you guys, I've worked with PEOs in the past and I was like, I needed to need a really, really good one. - Yeah. - As our clients need it. I see it all the time. Like the biggest secret punch that comes out of nowhere that knocks people out is almost always in their employees and it's unintentional, it could just be that you're working your (indistinct) off and you got 20 people and one of them is doing something that they shouldn't be doing and it's causing problems in your ranks and it buys you three or four lawsuits that could tank you. It's much better to have a professional organization to make sure that those things don't happen, that you have the proper attention to it, if they do happen, they're taking it on and they're handling it, which means that you get their lawyers and everybody else, they know the rules.
So they know that you don't have to lose sleep at night over it and that's what they're there for. - And this is the perfect time Toby, we're coming into the Q4, there's a lot of business planning going on and this is a time we'd love to talk to everybody. - We will shoot this out to everybody on our podcast. Fred, I really appreciate you taking the time and I would welcome anybody who wants to get an idea of whether Insperity is right for them to reach out great group, big as all get out, I always forget how big you guys are Fred, but excellent organization works with some of the a bunch of companies you'd have heard of, but we won't do the disclosures, though I know you probably can't, but they're fantastic to work with. We have a bunch of clients working with them on the (indistinct) side, on the regular business side.
Never heard a negative thing come back on you guys, which speaks volumes, because if somebody is going to chirp, they're gonna chip right back to me for referring it over, so you guys do an excellent job. So keep it up and thanks for joining us. - Thank you for having me, Toby. (soft music)