Space Marketing Podcast with guest Paul Tomko fromOutpost

foreign marketing podcast where we look at marketing principles strategies and tactics through the lens of space information relating to our discussion today and links to the video version can be found in the episode show notes on spacemarketingpodcast.com please like And subscribe to the podcast it will help us get the word out about space I am your host Izzy house and I am so excited to share this journey with you as we explore the different Space Industries on this episode we will look at the space Transportation segment just a quick disclaimer information in this episode is for entertainment and informational purposes only please consult a professional for your specific situation our next guest is from Outpost Technology Corporation Paul Tomko is a project management professional accomplished space systems manager for both commercial and government programs and has 15 years in Project program and people management experience the three PS no he is in Business Development with a strong experience in strategy sales scaling products and marketing in addition he is an experienced analog astronaut he now this one I'm not so sure what it means is Space Systems Mission manager was that for your analog astronauts okay in addition he is an experienced analog astronaut serving as Space Systems Mission manager working to develop on solutions to enable and sustain a human Colony Beyond Leo um it is my pleasure to welcome Paul I almost called you Tom that's why I stopped because Tom cook so it is my pleasure to introduce you to the podcast so welcome thank you so before we get started on outpost we got to talk about your analog missions a little bit so can you first of all tell the listeners what an analog mission is and then tell us about the ones that you have done I'm very curious sure yeah so so you think about an analog an analog is just like a representation of uh something uh like a real world experience so when we think about a space analog we're looking at simulating um either typically missions on the moon or on Mars there's other ones as well you can be like on a space station analog or I mean just you know use your imagination there's so many things you can do but really you're trying to simulate uh what would it be like if you were like on the moon or on the Mars and it's a way of training people that are either aspiring astronauts or maybe just working in the space industry field or just people that are space enthusiasts that want to kind of have a little bit of fun so I did two different uh facilities one was called high seas and that was uh on the big island of Hawaii on Mauna Loa so it's literally on on the side of the volcano I think the altitude was roughly seven no eight eight thousand feet and it is like a dome and there's a kind of like a habitat there where a cruise of six uh people would go through two weeks of training in the past they had done longer missions like a year even you know a year is the longest one that they did I just did a two-week one it's kind of in that sweet spot where it's it's not too much time out of your your year but you're still having uh the experience and um and I did another one in Poland and that was a facility called lunares so at high seas it was a martian space analog and in Poland it was a lunar space analog and um again both of them were two weeks it's a crew of six six uh crew members and everyone has like a different role and you you do everything from you know eating together um doing experiments uh whether you're like a biologist or an engineer there's so many different things to be working on in the habitat and then we do one of the best parts is doing what's called extra vehicular activities so Evas where you suit up in a you know a space analog space suit there's different types of spacesuits that you wear and you go into an environment where you're in Hawaii we're climbing through Lava Tubes in Poland we're in uh our repurposed aircraft Hangar that has a bunch of like kind of like lunar rocks so it's a bunch of rocks and sand and different objects to uh just train cool very cool yeah and um so you know somebody just doesn't pick up one day and and go online and say what's you know sign me up for an analog number one they wouldn't most people I I didn't know what an analog was until I got involved in the before I met Beth Beth Monde yeah so what got you in interested in space I mean where did that come from well the funny thing is uh when it came to the space analogs that was actually a pretty random thing it happened during covid and uh you know everything was pretty shut down at the time still and I I was on LinkedIn and I just happened to see space analog missions and they're recruiting a space analog and it was a very like random spur of the moment like this sounds like fun I'm going to apply type of thing but when it comes to actual like space and why I'm interested in space um you'd have to go all the way back to like my childhood my my father was an Air Force he's in he was in the active Air Force for for 26 years so I grew up towards the end of his service but we still did a lot of air shows growing up so I'd see a lot of fighter jets Blue Angels every year and my initial love was actually for Aviation and jet planes and the SR-71 Blackburn and the fastest planes in the world so I went to University of Washington I studied uh aerospace engineering it was technically a Aeronautical astronautical Engineering and um at that time I worked in the Wind Tunnel and I worked in a wind tunnel for actually four years almost my entire undergraduate uh you know time was spent in the Wind Tunnel so initially my focus was actually on um airplanes like air breathing everything that's you know not in space but yeah there's a series of events that happened one is pretty soon out of college I came out of college with four years of management experience running the wins on all so pretty quickly I got over to the nro the national reconnaissance office in Chantilly Virginia which is known as kind of the the um how you say it's like a mysterious uh mirrored building uh in Chantilly Virginia where we design and primarily just design and program manage the nation's spy satellites so um I was there for three years and that was kind of my first foray into the space industry where it's like hey I love airplanes and I want to do you know Aeronautics but uh I got recruited to do um program management with satellites um from there I took an actual break from the space industry where I wasn't doing a lot of space I did a little bit of space Consulting for some companies but primarily I was trying other different Industries and it wasn't until 2020 again during the pandemic when I was watching SpaceX launching Bob and Doug to the ISS International Space Station for the first time again from American soil that I really had that it was a couple things one I had the inspiration of watching like wow like you know we're not reliant on the Russians anymore and spending a ton of wasting a lot of taxpayer dollars to get a seat on a soyuz anymore we can launch it again from American soil that was a very proud moment as an American and two also I just had this space during covid where I was like wow like I actually have time to really research SpaceX and all the different technology that they're developing and they've been developing you know at that point over 15 years but you know how it is sometimes you're so busy just working and living the day-to-day life that you don't have time to really like spend a month or to just reading SpaceX articles and SpaceX books and watching videos or you know I just started really diving into that world and realizing like wow you know when I left the space industry in 2014 2015 I didn't see all these new space companies I mean SpaceX was there but there weren't too many of them right there wasn't a huge wave of new space companies now just five six years later there was a ton of very exciting companies that were being formed that were doing a lot of amazing things and I'm like wow like I'm excited again like I'm excited to get back into space and um I want to get back so that's kind of how my initial inspiration going back into space and then starting with space analog missions and slowly finding my way back into a space career where I've landed now doing business development and now you're with Outpost so you want to tell us a little bit about who Outpost is and what that is that they do yeah sure so Outpost has been around for about two years our founder uh our CEO is Jason Dunn he was the former founder one of the co-founders of made in space so made in space is a pretty popular name they are a well-known name they were the first company that ever manufactured things off of the planet so on the ISS they had a modified 3D printer that was building parts for the astronauts to use on station and Jason had that company from you know he was there 2010 to 2020 when made in space got acquired by kind of a a space conglomerate company called uh red wire so once red wire bought made in space Jason was free to to start another company so he founded Outpost in 2021 and really the the goal behind Outpost is they came from Jason's experience with made in space where he realized they were making all these things on a space station they're doing all these cool experiments but they had a hard time uh doing what's called down Mass so bringing things on station back down to earth they always had to wait for a Dragon capsule um sometimes so used to but you know more reliably a Dragon capsule that would fill to like a certain threshold of cargo and it's like okay we have you know I don't know what the number is uh 6 000 kilograms of cargo now whatever the threshold is or oftentimes it relied on astronaut you know schedules of when astronauts need to be going to the space station or coming back home and cargo really was at the mercy of these very uh infrequent trips up and back down so that was a really big bottleneck that you realized where it's like hey like manufacturing Prime Time Manufacturing is not ready yet in space because we have this huge bottleneck or yes SpaceX and others are bringing down the launch cost so we can bring more and more of things up to stations but we don't have a good reliable way of bringing things that are made back down to earth so he decided to help solve that problem another big reason for creating Outpost was he's really big on sustainability and he realized that there's so many satellites being lost right now if you look at the numbers of satellites being launched into orbit we're really on like an exponential growth curve right now uh part of it and most of it is actually SpaceX of course but even other countries you look at China and a lot of their launch numbers there's so much that is getting launched into space and he just believed it wasn't a sustainable approach because a lot of times these satellites would go up there do their mission and they'd create orbital debris because at the end of their mission life they would either go to like a graveyard orbit or they just burn up in the atmosphere and if you look at all these planned future Mega constellations like SpaceX alone is I think they said they're going to launch 42 000 Starling satellites and China has their own you know tens of thousands of satellite consolation you have Kuiper from Amazon that's another three or four thousand I mean if you combine all these planned Mega constellations in about 10 to 15 years from now we're looking at over 100 000 active satellites just in Leo low earth orbit which is I mean that's just so many I mean there's so many things right um and even if you know even if everything goes well when you're in Leo you're so close to the Earth that you have some amount of you know atmospheric drag being at that lower altitude so a lot of times these satellites it's not like they can stay up there and be useful for 20 years most of the times they may have three to five years of usable mission life and then they come back down they get burned up and all those uh rare earth metals and resources are just being wasted they're getting burned up in the atmosphere uh so we're not being sustainable uh who knows what kind of like uh environmental side effects are going to happen from just you know tens of millions of pounds of of metals being burned up in the atmosphere every year in the future so Jason wanted to help solve all that Outpost is helping solve this by you really think of us as like an earth return company that's commercializing this Earth return service and uh our goal is to initially bring up payloads and bring them back down to earth and in the future we also want to help actually do orbital debris removal and servicing where you think about bringing up a satellite and then also finding the old satellite and bringing it back down and uh just makes the whole the value chain more sustainable let's talk about the payload for a minute and why that's important and all the different I I um made in space they did quite a few different things they did the 3D um printing but they also did the fiber optics so when you create things in space sometimes you can create something better and cleaner and like with the fiber optics it's amazing the difference between what you can make on Earth and what you can make in the ISS with just fiber optics so do you want to talk a little bit about what kind of payloads we're looking at bringing back down yeah so I mean it's a lot of these I mean biological payloads are probably the the biggest one that we've seen that you know like you think about who wants to come up and who's going to pay a premium to come back down well yeah it's most of the people that want to get things either back under a microscope to see how they change by growing these you know either it's organoids or crystalline structures or structures in space they freeze them if they need to be Frozen and they bring it back down to see like how did it form in space when we turn off this knob called gravity like you know how does the structure change um and that applies to biological experiments that applies to of course like organ that are you know if you're growing organ tissues uh if you're developing Pharmaceuticals all these things Z Bland like you mentioned the fiber optics all these things can be created at a almost like a more uniform structure is one thing and also at a higher Purity because it's not just turning off kind of gravity that allows these structures to be uniform there's also other benefits of the temperature changes of going hot and cold hot and cold very extreme temperatures that can be very useful for for certain applications um there's also you know extreme vacuum environment right where um if you want to build like a very pure substance like you mentioned you know Fiber Optic Cables you can utilize that vacuum and in Space the vacuum in space is orders of magnitude better than even the best vacuums here on Earth so there's a lot of very unique environmental benefits of forming certain materials in space that it can be taken advantage of so and so you're you're working on developing satellites that can come back down but also payloads that can come back down do you want to go a little bit into how that happens yeah so think about it as really there's like three main components there's there's your satellite uh there's your sort of re-entry technology so that is like a heat shield of some sort and then there's like how you land which can be parachutes or we're planning to use paragliders right now so uh you think about launching on a ride share right now SpaceX is the cheapest ride to space if you're okay doing our big ride share Mission so once you're in space we would have a satellite that is launched on that ride share it does the mission in space whatever our customers need on orbits if they need to run experiments or do whatever they need to do normally it's up there for at least a month that's the kind of the plan right now uh once they've either built whatever material that they want to build or grow in whatever organoids they're growing or done whatever tests that they want to test and they're ready to come back home the idea is to do a re-entry burn so you're doing a Delta V basically in the opposite direction that you're flying to decrease your velocity as that happens your altitude will be lower and lower until atmospheric drag starts to really slow you down further and it's really important to have a very precise re-entry burn because as you know depending where in your orbit that you do your re-entry burn and how precise that is that can change where you land on Earth by hundreds if not thousands of kilometers so we don't want to end up somewhere random we want to be very precise about our re-entry burn and then once you do the re-entry burn uh we deploy our our plan right now is to actually use uh inflatable heat shield it's a technology developed by NASA Langley it's called Hyatt hiad which stands for Hypersonic inflatable aerodynamic decelerator and it's um you think about normal heat shields that are used they've been used since the 1960s and uh we see this new technology that can actually inflate and create a much larger heat shield and a much lower Mass that we plan to use to help us bring down satellites and then once you get through the upper atmosphere with your hiad then we deploy a drogue chute that pulls out our paraglider and that paraglider has a much higher lifted drag ratio so we can actually come down with Precision Landing to a landing site to do post-processing or whatever that we need to hold on to your boosters we will be right back with guest Paul Tomko from Outpost after a brief message from our sponsor please like And subscribe to the space marketing podcast wherever you listen [Music] [Music] have you been able to test this out and actually do act one of these re-entries yeah so again we've been around for two years so we're making progress on all three of those fronts you think about again the satellite there's like the heat shield and there's your paraglider parachutes so on the satellite we started off by just making some cubesats so we just launched our first cubesat actually on Monday of this week on transporter yeah transporter eight and again that was just something that we decided to do pretty last minute the team went from really the idea of making a quick satellite to launching on SpaceX in about seven months so I mean it's pretty fast it's not a large satellite it's only a 3u satellite but we just wanted to go through that that process of getting the team because some of our our um employees are are not they don't come from a space background right they're mechanical engineers or their software Engineers they don't have that that true space experience and it was almost like in a crash course into space technology where we had of course our more senior leadership that has experience in the space industry and kind of just taking some of the other employees under their wing and showing them how do we build structures quickly how do we build avionics and Boards very quickly and just putting it all together there's so many things that the team had to get um quickly whether it's FCC licensing or working with ground station service providers or just learning how to you know make air you know Aerospace structures and making boards and doing environmental testing there's so many things that we have to do even at our facility like we had to create a clean room where there is no clean room that existed so we had our facilities manager make like a makeshift clean room in one of the corners and it you know it worked great so now that we have that first cubesat uh in space we're going to do one more in the next couple months just to run through the paces one more time and then we're going to start building our larger satellite so that's a satellite component on the heat shield component again that's a partnership with NASA Langley and they actually have been testing that technology now for almost 20 years so we're able to leverage a lot of their technology through what's called a spaced act agreement where again they did a bunch of sub orbital tests just last November they did an orbital test it was called lofted and uh they flew out of Vandenberg space Force Base they did one orbit around the Earth and landed off the coast of Hawaii so we worked very closely with that team they're helping us design our first heat shield but we're also bringing a lot of the expertise in-house as well so we're working we're making progress on the heat shield and then the last kind of component is the paraglider and uh yeah we have expertise in paragliding and we believe it's uh there's been a new wave of innovation in paragliding technology that will make it a more ideal uh kind of a method of getting back down to earth with Precision that can be even better than parachutes so we're looking into that right now we can always go tried and true with parachutes as well but uh we believe paragliders right now are the best solution well very cool so we're going to change gears for a minute and we're going to talk about your marketing background so business management is in my opinion is a facet of marketing marketing is a very big component of it so you want to tell me a little bit about your marketing and your business management experience and what you do right now yeah so I would say most of my uh business Acumen or marketing experience comes from just getting out there and trying different businesses and doing things so like you know I had a stint in real estate and I mean real estate is a great way to learn how to do business and marketing because you are always going out there generating leads uh you know my real estate Mentor at the time he always had a saying uh the quality of your leads is in the quantity of your leads so just you know whether it's online or in person like just generating leads all the time having a system that you built out filter those leads and qualify them um and in terms of marketing same thing it is you always want to find what your your unique value proposition is like what makes you unique because if you are literally designing something or if you have a business where you have the same widget or product that everyone else can you know already make if there's nothing that distinguishes you from your competition it makes your job as a marketer as a business development person as a salesperson very very difficult unnecessarily difficult like I always see people that are trying to just sell a commodity you know something that's commoditized and I'm like I don't know it's just it's not something that I ever wanted to do um I always try to find like what makes our product unique like um and once you understand what that is okay this is where we're doing something that's never been done before that helps kind of focus like what makes you different that helps with finding investors that helps with finding customers and it all comes down to just solving problems right so like what problem are we looking to solve with our unique product and really just you know they talk about finding your avatar or whatever kind of phrase you want to use of finding like what is your dream customer what's their what's the ideal customer out there what problems like what pain points do they have right now that you know you imagine them going through their business model and they're trying to solve something something they're trying to do something but there is some pain Point there's you know it's too expensive to do something it's not available um whatever the case may be they are having a hard time doing something and if you can find a way to use your unique problem Your solution and like solve their problem um that's really where the magic starts to happen and and it makes it a lot easier because you're very clear on what you have you're very clear on what's what's needed and you just kind of connect those dots and that's a good point you know a lot of the the marketing that's out there that gets a bad rap and that it makes people think negatively of it is because they they sit there and they have this product this product that they're trying to force onto you that you don't need and it doesn't solve a problem they don't know their audience and um so we as an audience we we choose who we do business with and um it's the relationships that we build in in having the solution is like you said the beginning of it and then it's getting that message out that you have it so what what challenges have you had you know with marketing yeah um this I mean there's been a couple one is like we realized that we want to be like a sustainable like space company in terms of you know by doing Earth return we're really creating this like future economy and space that's more sustainable we're not just burning things up in the atmosphere we want to bring things back down help reduce orbital debris and those are very nice kind of like uh long-term Visions but they don't really help you identify your near-term customers because like it's one of those things where it's like yeah we love to recycle more and be more sustainable but our company also needs to survive and and make money right so and there's also something called green washing where like people can just say oh I'm sustainable I'm helping the environment and like like are you really you know some people it just kind of sounds good you know we're we're donating to the Children's Hospital it's like okay like is it 50 a month like you know it's like um a lot of people just like to throw these nice things out there to you know make their image look more positive than it really is and we just want to be very careful that we weren't going out there saying like sustainable space sustainable space and not really focusing on like our core fundamentals of you know who needs to actually you know use Earth return technology uh Which business cases are we solving which pain points are we solving because we're not really solving anyone's pain point where they want to be more sustainable they want to make more money they want their their company to grow faster they want to bring in new technology to the market you know helping them be more sustainable wasn't really like a pain point that that is like more tangible it's just like a nice value add on top of everything else it's the the icing on the cake so to speak it's it's a good thing to make a goal I mean because we do need to think about these things as we go forward and those companies that don't think about that probably will have a little bit of a harder time staying in business so once yeah because there's a there's a narrative out there that you definitely don't want to be one of the dirty ones yeah but even then let's look at like SpaceX as an example where it's like they learn how to re-land their rockets and by reusing their Rockets technically they're they're a much more sustainable launch company now but that wasn't the reason why they well I mean it's I don't know it's hard to say but that probably wasn't the main reason why Elon decided to learn how to LA and land Rockets right it was the fact that every time they were launching a rocket and it just burned up I think his analogy was like imagine imagine there's like a hundred million dollars or whatever number that he used and it's you know it's like a a big pallet of money and it's falling through the atmosphere and you know it just burns up here every time right it's like if you can save that big pile of you know millions of dollars that are falling through the atmosphere and you if you can save it you probably would right so it was really much of like a financial incentive where it's like we're just wasting money by burning up these Rockets we got to find a way to land them and reuse them again um and by doing that now they're also a more sustainable company so using that as an analogy we see the same thing at outposts where we would love to be a more sustainable you know space company where we're launching satellites and we're Landing them and maybe we're we refurbishing them or repurposing them and land launching them again the same satellites launching and doing a bunch of different missions with the same satellites but before we get there it's really about first solving the pain points of who needs to do earth return making sure that they can actually get those payloads back down helping close business cases growing things in orbit whatever they need to do in space and once we deliver a lot of those missions well as a side benefit guess what now we have all these satellites that we've landed and turns out you know if you have a satellite that goes in space for only a month or a couple months turns out there's probably a lot of Life still left on that satellite just because that customer needed to come back down to earth doesn't mean that satellite is at end of life yet so if we can find a way over time to start collecting dozens or hundreds of even these satellites that we can refurbish and re-fly well now our mission costs go down to substantially and we can you know just like SpaceX had a huge Fleet of these rockets that they can reuse what can happen once we have a big Fleet of these satellites that we can reuse there's probably a lot of use case scenarios that haven't even been discovered yet by doing it that way exactly yeah what what have been some of your marketing successes and what happened and why were they a success marketing successes again I think it's really about identifying who your target market is if you try to pitch someone to do earth return that doesn't need to do earth return I found into this where like people were like this is stupid like why why are you trying to bring satellites back down to earth like they're they're just making satellites cheaper and cheaper and cheaper it doesn't make sense to bring satellites back down like why are you doing this this is stupid but again that wasn't like the right market and it was also the angle right like the point isn't necessarily just to bring satellites back down the point is finding customers that need to come back down for whatever they're growing or testing in space to see what happened to the hardware to to see to sell the products here on Earth that's the vision but again it's like a side benefit once you have all these satellites you can do extra things so I guess just the marketing success is just being very clear clear of who we're going after we weren't trying to convince people to bring down their satellites again because there is this push that's been happening over the last two decades really of making cheaper and cheaper satellites the days of making these multi-hundred million dollar satellites even for the US government those days are numbered where now you can make large satellites on the order of tens of millions of dollars and we see even a lot of you know commercial companies whether it's Planet Labs or you know Outpost is now one of them there's many companies out there that are making you know cubesats on the order of single million dollars or even hundreds of thousands of dollars so we see this push to make cheaper and cheaper satellites if you try to convince like a constellation provider that they need to bring down their satellites again to refly them um you know it's just not going to work so our really our biggest marketing success is just really identifying who needs to come back down um and it doesn't feel like marketing it doesn't feel like a sales ad or anything when you present the right solution to the right person they are grateful they are not annoyed they they're looking for you you just have to find them you know what I mean yeah that's that's the challenge and it's like I said it's building a relationship you know we we do want marketing things I mean we that's how we build our identity that's how we get things done and when we look at a company we want their help and that is what true beautiful marketing is is actually helping your audience so very good so where do you you know if you were to pick up a crystal ball and you were to actually say this is where we think space is going to be in 10 to 20 years where would that be it's a great question um I would say the easiest way to think about at least for me the future in space is one what happens now that launch costs are decreasing some so rapidly and that's going to continue to increase as Starship comes online with SpaceX so it's just it's like a paradigm shift of like what happens in space if the axis of space to getting the Leo from Earth is essentially free it's never going to be free but it's going to be like orders of magnitude cheaper than it's ever been before so comparatively if it's free to get into Leo what happens then um a couple things will happen one you'll see of course a lot more things launching in the Leo but not just that if if it's free to get to Leo then it's really like how do you get things from Leo to other places in the in the solar system so I think the next couple decades you're going to see a lot of things getting moved to orbits around Mars helping with Mars uh settling uh settling Mars um of course the moon first right so settling the moon then Mars um and it's just because it's so much cheaper to get a lot of mass and capability to Leo so now going from Leo to the moon or Leo to the Mars it's much more affordable it's much more attainable um so I foresee a lot more humans living and working in space so not just satellites we're going to see these huge makeup constellations that I uh mentioned earlier but also a lot more people living and working in space um with Myspace analog experience I have to say I'm the most excited about a lot of humans living and working in space um I would love to go to space in the future once it gets a little easier um but yeah it's just an exciting feature I mean you think about just all the humans for the entire history of human you know mankind we've been stuck on this one rock in in the universe and just imagine like if we're able to build these massive space spaceships and space stations and explore the Universe um you know I've heard different kind of theories out there one is you know more like the pessimistic side it's like wow it's so expensive to build these huge space stations and you know spaceships and we have so many problems here on Earth and out there in space it's just dark and cold and empty but for me I I see it as really we're not spending that much on Space technology it's you know it's very small percentage of the total you know uh GDP or whatever you whatever metric you want to use um and I think there's just a huge unknown I think there's a ton of resources out there whether it's in asteroids on the moon on other planets or further out a ton of resources that we can bring back to Earth to actually help enrich our planet uh so we don't have to keep you know uh sacrificing our own planet and you know using up all the the rare earth minerals here on Earth I think there's a lot more in space we might as well just use that um and I think it's also going to be this exciting Adventure where um you're going to see humans going further than they've ever gone before and and I think as humans we're like this Explorer species where we like to go out and like you know go boldly into the the unknown and discover new things and um I'm very excited for that future yeah when I was growing up when I was 13 I wanted to be selected to colonize another planet that was my goal and uh so it may be something that happens in the next 20 years which is exciting when you think about the going to the Moon so yeah it's been talked about for a long time but there was no way to do it technically until SpaceX came along and started opening the door that needed to open so too you know it's the resources that we can reach and you know possibly bring back but one of the big values is just in the reach itself is all the the Technologies on living learning how to live out there that we can make our world a better place so that that is a very rich things so as one final question what final thoughts do you want to leave our listeners with today what do you want them to mull around in their brain as as they go about their day I think the biggest thing is you know depending how much time you spend on social media or watching the news I think it's sometimes it's easy to get caught in this like negative spiral of like oh my God like the the future of humanity is doomed or you know things are going in a negative Direction I think it's very important to gain control of your mind and actually focus on the positive things that are also happening because it's like a I think it's a Tony Robbins quote but wherever focus goes energy flows so if you always focus on negative things negative stories negative things that are happening you're gonna feel terrible but at the same time you can also choose to focus on positive things good people good experiences and you can feel very excited about the future and space is just one of those things and I also believe that there's a lot of talent that's you know been focused over the last decade or two on on just technology companies whether it's on web 3.0 or you know cryptocurrencies or AI um a lot of online platforms Finance cancels you know Technologies and I would love to see I think there's been a transition that started but I'd love to see more and more of that really exceptional Talent going to the space industry and it's true maybe space jobs don't pay quite as much as you know software engineering jobs necessarily right I know I know how much my friends make in Silicon Valley and San Francisco and they make more than the space you know employees do space industry employees do but um you can also work at a great startup where you get equity and that Equity can grow into a lot more money than just your salary right but I would love to see more and more people kind of make user talents in the space industry just so we can do more cool things together and I think at the end of the day I think our future in space is a very positive thing for the world and I think it's going to be exciting and as Elon always says you want to wake up in the morning and look forward to your day and have something on the you know makes you excited to wake up and be human and I think space for me and I think many others is is it it gives you juice it just it just makes the I mean you can't go outside at night and not look up at the stars and sit there and dream and it's all good unlimited inspiration yeah so well thank you so much for sharing your your evening with or afternoon in your area with us and uh how do people get in touch with you if they want to do business with Outpost you can find our website it's outpost.space you can reach out to us there uh you can also email me at uh Paul outpost.space you can find me on LinkedIn as well I'm pretty active on LinkedIn or even Twitter um and yeah reach out if you are interested in doing Earth return if you have uh an idea for a business and you want to see if you can close your business case with Earth return we're happy to take any kind of discussions or if you'd love to work for Outpost you can also reach out so go from Outpost for sharing his journey to space be sure to check out his links listed in today's show notes please like And subscribe to the space marketing podcast wherever you listen this will help get the word out about space I hope that you have found this podcast useful for your journey as you reach for the stars [Music] foreign [Music]

2023-06-27 05:17

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