Layoffs Escalate Beyond Tech Firms, But There’s a Silver Lining | Ep. 8

Layoffs Escalate Beyond Tech Firms, But There’s a Silver Lining | Ep. 8

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massive layoffs are now extending Beyond  technology companies to other Enterprises   but there is a silver lining for workers with  technology skills next up on today in Tech [Music]   welcome back to the show I'm Keith Shaw technology  companies continue to shed employees in the wake   of a pandemic hiring boom over the last few years  but in recent weeks we've seen companies such as   Microsoft Google and Salesforce all announcing  layoffs earlier this week Spotify announced   it was going to cut about six percent of its  Workforce so in the tech company space people   are still letting go but now we're also seeing  what I call the other shoe about to drop or   The Dominoes starting the topple or the snowball  rolling down the hill I've got about 20 different   cliches here but we're now seeing them on the  Enterprise side of the Enterprise side as well   so non-traditional like they're not really tech  companies so companies like Capital One 3M Newell   Brands they make Sharpies they've all announced  a bunch of layoffs in recent weeks on the media   side for example layoffs are hitting companies  like the Washington Post host Fox Media and AD   week at least 25 companies in the advertising  industry because it's all these marketers that   are preparing for a softening economy now well  it's also difficult to determine how many of these   positions at these companies are technology-based  roles there are also some signs that there is a   silver lining for workers who do have Tech skills  so joining me to discuss some of the news and   Trends around these layoffs is Lucas Marion he's  the senior writer at Computer World covers the   labor market covers tech jobs things like that  he's been on the show before welcome back Lucas   good to be here uh now you have a store a new  story up on uh computerworld uh.com that shows   that tech jobs are dominating the top 25 uh  best jobs in the U.S according to indeed.com   um can you kind of elaborate on on what you found  and uh you know sort of the Silver Lining that   we're seeing yeah it's it's it's more even the  silver lining the fact of the matter is that   tech jobs are the most in demand out there  last year two of the top 10 jobs and best   jobs that is according to indeed were uh tech  jobs this year it's eight eight of the top 10   jobs for tech jobs nearly half 44 percent our  of the top 25 jobs our technology positions   right and this is roles like the technology  so it's not like a specific job listing right   no that well yeah they also they are are also  specific about the types of jobs as well so   for example the number one job on the list is um  uh full stack developer number two data engineer   and number three Cloud engineer so the top three  jobs are technology positions and they're paying   well into the six figures now is this something  that that they've called from recent data or or   is it older data and maybe they haven't updated it  yet or is it I mean how confident are you in this   um you know news from indeed yeah this is from  December okay uh that's when they called it from   last year and uh and they and they analyze it and  then they of course project what's happening in   2023 and uh it's it's really a market difference  so in last year's uh 25 best jobs only 25 of them   I mean that's still a lot but one in four were  Tech positions and like I said this year it's   nearly double it's 44 so tech jobs are highly  in demand and I think we've talked about this   before yeah it just got the most recent data  from the Bureau of Labor Statistics yesterday   and uh people are still number one they're still  quitting jobs so over 4 million people every month   are still quitting their jobs but the unemployment  rate in the technology Market is only 1.8 percent  

compared to the general unemployment  rate in the United States or three point   five percent right right and like what does that  indicate to you does it is it just that that we've   talked about this before where companies during  the pandemic they started to over hire because   they needed you know to either support remote  and hybrid work or they needed you know they   were getting if they were in the retail space and  e-commerce space you know all these people were   starting to buy things online and they needed to  support you know that infrastructure um so a lot   of them have admitted that they they over hired  people right they did and a lot of times they   were over hiring in areas that weren't necessarily  technology but they couldn't even get the people   to fill technology roles that was one big part of  it I mean yeah so what they did was they hired uh   they tended to hire more experienced workers when  they could get them and they were kind of middle   Management workers that were at high pay but not  always in fields that they necessarily needed   and so we saw recently um what was it uh Amazon  laid off 18 000 employees earlier this month and   the majority of them were from Human Resources  yeah so they wouldn't even technology workers   um alphabet is laying off six I think six percent  of its Workforce 12 000 jobs and it's it's ironic   because you have an alphabet investor who's  urging the company you think you wrote him a   letter basically saying look you need to lay off  more you need to take this from just under 170 000   employees down to 150 000 employees uh even though  they're still profitable right still right money   so it's ironic I don't want to keep using that  word but I think they're they were all concerned   that a recession was going to hit and today we  found out that the GDP was 2.9 percent so the   the economy is growing we had a short recession  back in the summer but since that time the economy   has continued to grow there's really no science  that a recession is on the horizon even though   people are still ringing their hand are still  ringing their hands about that a lot of this   is in reaction to uh or perceived uh slowing of  the economy but that's not really happening we're   doing very well in the economy even though the FED  continues to boost interest rates in order to slow   uh inflation yeah I I've seen a couple of articles  that have called this the great reshuffling rather   than you know because because of course you  know why invent a new term just take an old   term and just call it something else so it's more  about companies that are just sort of kind of you   know moving things around and reshuffling and  you know that's that's more than just sort of   like we're laying off because of reason X Y  or Z and do you think that this Enterprise   uh is it spilling over into the Enterprise because  they over hired to or do you think that maybe some   of these Enterprises like Capital One 3M and  maybe they're bracing themselves for a possible   recession and and so they're like well we're  seeing all these other companies doing it so and   we have a little bit of softness that we need to  sort of address like in your opinion does do these   Trends tend to snowball for example absolutely  yeah that's that's part of what's happening right   now you're seeing other companies do it especially  public companies and investors are saying whoa   whoa wait a second if they're cutting we should be  cutting two right yeah yeah so there's definitely   a follow-up leader kind of trend out there I don't  think it's going to last I think they're going to   realize we need these guys we need these employees  and they're being snapped up so companies that   don't have the the talent are snapping them right  up there's virtually no unemployment in technology   right now I'm just going to go out and say that  yeah the 1.8 it's virtually non-existent yeah   and and so let's say that there were some tech  employees that got let go and and you know if   you were an engineer or a programmer or something  at Google uh or Amazon or some of these big you   know Facebook and you have this resume now um it's  probably another Silver Lining is that there are   lots of other companies in there like either their  Tech departments that are you know struggling to   find people um you know I I recall a story I met  some people at um John Deere a few years ago or   were talking to some of their people and vague  this was during the tech boom when everybody was   hiring and this was just like everyone's hiring  everyone's hiring everyone everyone's hiring and   then they're like we have to compete with people  that that we're looking for people that are   getting hired at Google and they go out to Silicon  Valley and we have to say that no no stay in Iowa   where John Deere is located or like and so they  had to come up with ways to try to entice people   to you know live in and there's nothing wrong  with Iowa by the way I've I've been there it's   a nice it's a nice state but if you're a you know  someone out of college and you have to like well   I could work for Google where they've got all of  these perks and benefits and ping pong tables and   you know free lunches and all this other stuff um  yeah that's going away by the way we're going to   talk about that later um versus oh I get to stay  in Iowa in the middle of winter when there's like   you know two feet of snow on the ground I mean  but you know so if now that you've been laid off   there if you're willing to sort of find another  company that doesn't necessarily have to be   attacked but use your skills there's there's jobs  out there right absolutely yeah and no question   um the Technology field right now is  fascinating to me because not only   um are there a lot of jobs out there but there's  a lot of opportunity to change your career and so   if you know on no longer want to be a program you  want to become a data analyst vast opportunities   do that a project manager big opportunities  for doing that and what's so great about it is   companies want to train you they they don't care  if you have the previous training they'll bring   you in an apprenticeships and internships they'll  have you come in and they'll teach you with online   courses they'll have a mentor I'll follow you  through I've written stories about that where   companies don't necessarily in fact even require  a college degree these days they want people who   just they love technology and they love to learn  they have a passion for it and they've got good   character right they want that more than the  sheepskin right so and you're seeing that I   mean I think 50 on LinkedIn and and other online  job sites are seeing college degree requirements   go away so uh yeah companies what they really  want they want somebody who's passionate about   what they're doing uh and who loves to learn  right and now there's um we also want to say   that if you were if you have been laid off that  obviously there is a tough road I'm not a tough   road but there's you know I we I don't want to  sort of dismiss the fact that there might be some   people out there that are out of work because you  know I've been unemployed a few times definitely   have been laid off from companies before it's  not the best thing in the world to go through   um so I I'm trying not to dismiss that by by  saying oh you know you'll get a job in in a   week and hahaha this is so easy you know we we  understand that there is some difficulties and   and there are growing trends that it it's not  going to be as easy as it was maybe you know   six months ago or nine months ago for example  I've seen some stories about the that the hiring   process is now taking longer than before you still  have the issues of of companies using robotic   um AI processing to go through a resume looking  for keywords so you it's that first time you   submit you might might not even get to a human  until the second or third round you know things   like that so what advice would you have for  for people that that you know has been doing   the right thing but they suddenly find themselves  layoffs and they have some tech skills or maybe   they don't have Tech skills like what would  you you tell them if they they approached you   yeah I think it's first of all what companies  are doing right now is after that kind of hiring   spree over the past two years they're being more  judicious about how they're hiring people they're   looking to make the process higher quality  they want higher quality employees and they   don't want just higher uh willy-nilly like they  had been doing so they are taking more time in   order to find better employees I would suggest  getting in touch with um possibly a uh a job   um counselor Human Resources Services Company a  company that can tell you what sorts of Technology   uh positions companies are are hiring in and what  kind of skills they're looking for I've written   articles about numerous articles about this and  I think mainly like I said what companies looking   for are somebody who has who shows a passion for  what they do it's not necessarily what you have in   terms of what boxes have you checked out with you  checked off with your education right but what is   your life I know this sounds like a guru thing but  it's what is your life it's true what's your life   experience in this what projects have you worked  with yeah what do you bring to the table in terms   of as a person [Music] um you know I love what  I do that I want to be with your company because   you're right in my in my Lane this is exactly what  I do want to do for my career this is why I want   to do it these are some of my successes from the  past so instead just going in and listing a bunch   of um qualifications that you may have talk about  yourself more talk about what you really love to   do why you want to join that company right what  you offer them yeah I've got I've got two pieces   of advice too that I that from Recently is that  you know we've been talking a lot about chat GPT   on this show uh and we and we actually saw another  article that was like Hey you know use chat GPT to   help you write your uh cover letter or you know  I I wouldn't I don't know if it would help you   write your resume but uh when I was writing a  lot of cover letters you you know the advice is   to make sure that you match the keywords from the  job description um every time I had a you know a   new job that I was applying for I had to look at  the job description find the biggest keywords make   sure that my cover letter and resume had those  keywords in it it's a lot of work but that can   get you past that first robotic and it's like well  if I could have a robot tell me how to beat the   robots I mean that's even that's even cooler  my second piece of advice was just to network   network and network I you know use your friends  you use your co-workers you know if you know   again it's another reason that's why you should  always be nice to your co-workers right Chris   yeah you know be nice to all of your co-workers  Lucas you're the best uh because you never know   when you're going to need them so that's a  valuable life skills for for anybody in in the   job market so because it's more likely that you'll  probably get a a new job based on recommendations   from your friends and co-workers um in terms of  then so you know I'm getting a good feeling from   you Lucas about that like you know that all is  not bad all is not Doom and Gloom is is this just   the media's fault because we just follow the the  bad news all the time and we start seeing Trends   and we start seeing these things and you know if  you're reading this or watching this video and   you're going oh my God you know I'm going to  get fired next week I'm going to get laid off   um and we're trying to tell you like all right  ignore that like what what can we do better as   as media people well I think there's a lot of  knee-jerk reaction today it's all about who gets   the news out first instead of really analyzing  what's going on so those tech companies having   layoffs and and you know I've seen this over and  over and they're like well you know technology   positions that's an outlier you know don't worry  about it other careers in health care and and uh   and marketing and sales they're doing well and  they're not really exploring what's happening in   these companies they're not necessarily laying  off Tech workers yeah in some cases they are   but that's because again they've over hired them  and there's still plenty of jobs out there right   right so unfortunately in the in this uh mature  internet era they're trying to beat other people   to the punch and get the news out fast rather than  taking time to analyze it and actually produce   something that has some insight into what's going  on out there there's a lot of hand-wringing yeah   there's a lot yeah there's a lot of hand ringing  there's a lot of uh Chicken Little the sky is   falling oh my gosh we're gonna you know the meteor  is gonna hit next week blah blah blah blah blah meteor like the asteroid that's gonna hit the  planet and you know there's a lot of that you   know Doom and Gloom that we see out there so it's  actually I I was very encouraged when we reached   out to you and you're like oh I've got some good  news I'm like oh excellent excellent good news is   great um do you think that this trend is gonna  continue for a while are we gonna you know so   is this are we in the you know beginning middle  or end stages have you been able to sort of get   a sense of where you think companies are going on  this you know from what from talking to research   organizations they do believe this is going to  continue at least for the first half of 2023   um and they're not sure what's going  to happen after that I I wish I could   tell you myself I don't know we're going to  have to continue to watch this but there is   a great reshuffling I like that word better  than you know resignation or anything else   um I I think there is a reshuffling going on  and that's all it is it's some companies are   um are deciding they don't need this many workers  but other companies definitely still need them   here's the other thing to remember uh versus  last year where a lot of uh and it's still   important flexibility is still high on the list  of why workers stay with the company they want   flexible hours they want their flexibility in  workplace whether they can do hybrid or remote   but they also want stability right and so  they're looking they're more apt to uh reply   to a job Hunter a Headhunter or a job listing  or actively look for a job if their company's   doing a lot of layoffs right now and so a lot  of these layoffs that for example like I said   uh alphabet uh did and they're being urged  to do more they may get their wish because   people may just walk out the door and find a job  somewhere else they want a company that's stable   and when they hear the companies done layoffs  that doesn't say stability yeah and so they   start looking themselves and the great great  resignation is still going on that BLS date   is telling us more than 4 million a month if  you're a company looking to lay off people you   better think long and hard about that because  they may not come back right in fact some of   the people that you've and the people that are  left over you know they not only do they end   up with survivors guilt and things like that  but then they might start thinking hey it's yeah do you have a sense of do you of what  stats or trends that you might see where you   would hit a hit a panic button or you know where  you turn into the Chicken Little of the world or   um are you always just trying to remain as  positive as possible like is is there a point   where you look at something and go uh-oh you know  what if you mean you're talking about within a   company yeah when you're watching this Trends  and that because you're tied into a lot of data   from the government and you know all these other  companies that produce stats about it jobs right   yeah I think companies that are hyper sensitive  to investors are a bad thing yeah uh because   investors are like you know the weather they  change day in and day out if you watch the market   it's insane when I covered Financial Services much  more closely I always wound up scratching my head   like literally you and I know a butterfly could  flap its wings in the Middle East and you know the   markets will drop a thousand points right right  there's no Rhyme or Reason to it sometimes and so   listening to them too much not having a vision if  I'm in a company and I see no vision going forward   like like what is the mission statement here where  are we headed yeah is there are we growing uh and   more importantly are we being Innovative so we're  not just uh you know growing the same old products   but what what new are we looking to do right  that's important all right you want to see a   vision within a company all right hey great stuff  Lucas thanks again for for joining us on the show   all right happy beer all right and that's all the  time we have for today's episode don't forget to   like the video subscribe to the channel and add  any comments that you have below join us every   week for new episodes of today in Tech have a  great day and we'll see you next time [Music]

2023-02-04 00:59

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