IBEX Podcast 57 - The Future of Bitcoin: Insights from New Market Capital's Chief Investment Officer
These are from technologies, which is very interesting, because if you look the evolution of financial markets in the United States in developed countries in general have had stages. Bitcoin is one of those technologies that can skip steps, We can go from a population that has a number of people that don't are banked, or don't have access to finance to a large proportion and very quickly we don't have to go through all those stages that the developed countries have gone through. So that for me has always been very important and I think it's accelerating. Welcome to the Ibex Podcast.
This is a special episode. Again, very excited to do it in person. We are here in the studio with Thierry Adant Thank you for coming.
This is our 57th episode and we are starting it in block number 797,854 of the only timeline that matters. Welcome, Thierry. Thierry is the CIO of New Market.
And well, with that I'll pass you the word for that make the intro of what you are doing and everything. Thank you, Esteban. Thank you very much for having me here. It's very, very exciting really going back to Guatemala after of being away for so long. I have worked since I graduated from college and even college was out of Guatemala and so far I haven't really managed to bring what I have done outside to Guatemala. But with what we are doing in our subsidiary Battery Finance, which focuses on value added with bitcoin, institutional solutions is the first thing that I think we're going to be able to connect my world outside, the world in here.
I'm very excited, but as an introduction if I am the "CIO" of New Market Capital and Battery Finance, We are an asset manager of active money managers for institutional agents and we have done in the last ten years quite a few investments worldwide with normally banks, regulated banks, where we have found many investment opportunities. Yes, and that's the exciting thing, because since we started talking I felt very identified with you, because I also I have that part of that I was at school. Here I grew up outside, I came back to Guatemala and little by little I left re adapting and integrating and seeing the opportunities. And now that we've been living together these days, just...
When you meet a person you haven't seen for ten years and you're chatting and everything, but what you just mentioned is is the truth. What excites me also that because inside of everything that what you've done, you found bitcoin and you managed to integrate it into your daily life. And that's where you are that are returning to Guatemala. So let's start with how did you learn about Bitcoin what is your history with bitcoin? Look, for me it was a gradual thing, it wasn't a moment, shall we say. I started the first time I started soaking up bitcoin was in 2015.
and I started to soak on the side of my work I was doing before in London. A company arrived that I'm not going to mention, but I was going to say we have an idea excellent, we want to make a bank that is going to be powered by bitcoin, so the thesis for them was we have this, this technology, bitcoin that is going to revolutionize the world. And they started to give the talk and very quickly I disconnected. No, I didn't understand how that technology was ever going to have the impact that was going to be adopted by so many people for many reasons, that was the first part of 2015 and on a personal level I started to do a little 2017 because I started to think that maybe I'm wrong, maybe there is something here and I started to soak it in more. And the next time I really started creating something professional was 2020, because we realized that there has been enough development of that technology that I already get to see how it's going to really have an impact, a very, very big impact, really. Did I count you that I am CIO of an asset manager who focuses on credit I all I look at it like how can it go wrong? So I'm a pessimist day by day.
That's what I analyze, it's bonds what I can do. My best work is to make sure we get paid and give us the coupons. Actually if you have a technology like this, more like Bitcoin, that have the ability to to transform so much, is a story of generating capital and that's totally different to my nature grown professionally.
But we managed, we managed to have the conviction that Bitcoin is here to stay, and it's here to make really big changes in the financial system. and we are focusing on it at this time as a collateral, as if we look at other collateral, no? real estate, infrastructure, but yes, my gradual bitcoin moment wasn't an overnight one. I believe that that is also reflected in in the customers that we have, who are naturally skeptical "skeptics" excuse the Spanglish there. and it's going to take some time to get to... to have that conviction that is a kind of asset which is something that they have to have in portfolios. But we obviously we are at the forefront and we believe that many portfolios should to have an exposure to this type of assets and let's go.
Let's keep going backwards drastically. What are you talking about? It was gradual, step by step. You had this first contact there in like what would be your main idea in your learning curve that you could comment on with the people who are watching this this podcast from Guatemala specific have the opportunity. Look, being shared a lot of time with you and your colleagues, I believe that we have reached a message very interesting which is see the value of Bitcoin in a utilitarian way, not as a form of an asset without a thesis. A thesis who's going to say okay, we have this asset, it's going to generate these operations, will be used in this way and in this way one can focus and one can anchor on certain bases in the real world, let's say, in goods and chattels.
You would think that real estate has value because they have a utility, say, a house. One can live in the house, then one drifts that utility from a ceiling, a house to grow a family, to have good health. It is very important and one puts a lot of courage into it. Obviously, if we talk more general, the earth which is under a house one also gives it value, because it is unique. If we buy here in zone four where we're shooting this, obviously there's only certain plots, you can't generate more in zone four, that's why there's a certain unique value.
So how would I answer you? It is to start anchoring which are the utilities that can be built on top of bitcoin, because bitcoin really is a technology, is a technology that can be developed in many facets, with many utilities, that can really make an impact as I was counting before, not only financial, but also where I'm involved, but also from other social sectors, even legislative. And well, but then you would say looking at it with all these possibilities, looking at it. I find it very interesting and very important what you are mentioning to create a thesis and in educational talks we have been giving, The importance of the thesis is at the moment where it is...
Bitcoin is doing its thing, which is partly being volatile. It's then having that part where, where to anchor yourself. What do you think has been your challenge? Because you've known him for a while now. in finding that anchor not just understanding the technology, but also interacting with the asset and then get to propose it in your professional line and stand in front of people and say look, I think this is a good idea.
It's a good question, Esteban Check out internally to our company has really cost us, but we have reached the point that if the company is really targeting at the forefront and is involving bitcoin in everything it does, but still internally, although we had obviously a mission to create a company in bitcoin and we wanted leverage what we we had already done at New Market, it cost us and I would tell you that those challenges are very similar to the challenges we have in the customers we could have on the side of investors of which 18 months we have had these talks, that the challenges have changed a little bit because also we have entered a period of adoption and higher education. But if I start talking about 18 months ago, the challenges we had was really very basic as you explain to me what this technology is, how it can be used, explain to me how it is not used by people with motives... not legal let's say. why not? Why shouldn't we invest energy in this technology? It was very basic, but... To some extent, let's say, one year back we started to win those battles by a lot of education and the following has been the volatility at the one following it. It was okay me personally, let's say, our customers and also the market say "I understand" "I have the confidence" ''but I have other considerations'' say, I work for a regulated company or I'm part of of a pension fund with a public board of directors that has a lot, a lot of press coverage or personally I'm investing, but I'm in a foundation because there are more considerations.
and those considerations are in English is called "Headline Risk" that is, the association of Bitcoin with a with a company or with an investor and that can be positioned from a not so favorable point of view. Obviously we can't control freedom of speech i am "all for freedom of speech". but these people prefer to avoid being in the headline risk the other one is also very important. is reputational, even I know a lot of people who are involved in Bitcoin personally and personally, it can be in their family offices may be in their private portfolios obviously, but at the professional level have not come to have the confidence to raise the subject of saying ''okay''. ''I'm ready to win that battle''.
because obviously there are certain considerations if you are part of a company very large and you can only have certain battles, right? there's an expression "you have to pick your battles". that's very real in the realm of careers really people, is not only which is the investment with the most potential, the best investment, but also how you get there idea, how to say all the interested groups to execution and after execution post execution, what are the apparent risks? Reputational risk this whole cycle is very important when considering the challenges that we have had and that we still we are having at this moment, because they are not challenges that we are going to overcome overnight, but obviously we have to talk about what's going to happen the other four weeks, because it's really a total lap in many, many factors, but also of many people very impressionable, aren't they? and companies. is that it's a little bit towards what they wanted to mention because in the end... we are already at the point where think or where you can see a horizon, you can see a future in which when you think back you're going to think why didn't I do that? Why didn't I...
I saw a way to hold bitcoin? right? And that happened with many technologies and it has already happened with , for example, returning to familiar offices investing in some kind of goods and chattels There are always certain categories of real estate that they have to have. Why? Because it makes sense to have it and if you look at it backwards you had there, or shares of some company or something in the last 20 years have been technocrats, everything has been some technology company. right? the question is whether you are investing in ''Shares'' you have to have a technology company there, because it makes sense. So now we're getting to that point, share with us what are the... the key public figures to pay attention to currently they have done a 180 because because it's happening. If it is not it is unbelievable what has happened in the last four weeks.
We start from the most recent, Most recent, who is remarkable, is Larry Fink who is the chief executive officer who is the most senior executive below of the board of directors of the world's largest manager. They manage 8.5 trillion dollars. They have much, much influence in markets, capitals, in credibility with investors, have with regulators also I should say, and focus a lot. They have the confidence regulators because they have grown and they have grown because they have done things very, very well to all super compliments, all the best in class And obviously with the interests of the customers in mind, are always really. I admire BlackRock, what it has done from the beginning.
They have always done focused on their customers and have always innovated in different things. Have done, ETFs'' they have launched so many etf's and have created actually many new investment options for people. But this is not the point we are talking about the point. Speaking of which to Larry Fink, the fact that he four years ago or a little bit more bitcoin's point of view of it, was totally negative.
He was saying it was a technology that was only used to move money illicit literal, and that was the public point. Larry Fink And I wasn't saying in any way that his customers, your investors should have a position. This message started to graduate in the last few years, but has never had a positive position until a few days ago, where he came out very publicly and that's what you can see in in many parts Twitter, YouTube, where it says that is an international asset, an international asset that can revolutionize many parts of finance, not only Bitcoin, but also Blockchain technology the idea of tokenization the idea of how to it's theology, which is part of bitcoin it's going to be monumental in terms of moving forward in certain financial factors Larry Fink No.1 No.2 I would say, Fidelity
that's like 4th or 5th largest manager in the world. They have operations all over the world, have to not 2 billion, but trillions of dollars. And they to not only them, but four or five others which is five companies, reinstated their application for Bitcoin spot ETF, in the united states Is there a debate among the regulators, let's put it this way how should it be regulated certain crypto assets? Obviously, Bitcoin is one of the few that, at least on the CFTC side of things And yes, it's very clear that it's a ''basic good''. The FCC has been more direct, but it's clear really where it is positioned Bitcoin in the regulatory arena.
But the fact, the term that now there are five of the very, very large managers of the world trying to launch an ETF to access bitcoin spot in the United States, the capital market world's largest, most dynamic and which is more respected worldwide, It is very significant. And Fidelity it's been gradual, but little by little, if you look at what they've done more publicly and they are engaging in more and more of its products, then they should really focus on following the bread crumbs of the biggest money managers and that is publicly Obviously it is necessary to focus also not only what has happened, but what is possible that is going to happen, because all of this you have to go ahead, to see how it goes we are already three steps ahead because we have been looking at this but if you really for the people who are listening to this you have to recalibrate your expectations. because what has happened the last four weeks only with these two that I have counted is monumental.
Yes, and for me too. To clarify, an ETF is an Exchange Traded Fund. means that you can buy at the current price on the stock exchange being an accredited investor and all Bitcoin, right? So let's go back to the fundamentals. 21 million. Never again. And in the end it's supply and demand.
So, the supply is going to be the same and the possibility, the infrastructure for that demand to grow is what's being is currently being built, right? I would also like to go as a little talking about the basics of what this means fundamentals of from your side, as why Bitcoin? and not crypto? Yes I just wanted to tell you one thing, on the ETF side why is it important that it exists a bitcoin ETF? is important because it solves many of the, shall we say, problems that Bitcoin adoption has today, today is not a wolf manager, OR a pension fund, is not going to have the capacity of safe keeping custody Are different services and products from what they are used to, but they are used to to investing in Securities, an ETF is an investment asset overnight, you open a lot of investors to this asset. Obviously there has been a GBTC trust in the United States for a long time there have been spot ETFs in other jurisdictions, but the fact that it is in the United States, is very significant There are in Canada, in Hong Kong, in Australia. Yes, there are other products, there are ETPs, there are ETNs, but the fact that Blackrock is going to provide ETF in the U.S. capital market it is very significant, it will open many doors for many institutions.
I'm going to go back to what we were talking about it's reputational risk, headline risk Once you say the world's largest manager is offering a bitcoin spot product. People are not going to be fired because they have bought a Blackrock product so, they look at it. It's as simple as that. You're not really going to look like the the person who is looking too far ahead and is not thinking about a real-world scenario. That's what I've come across. when I talk to institutions of you don't have to bring it to a stage real world, regulation, issue, clarification and you always have like that side of the person. And what would be your answer That Bitcoin person can be banned? Look, if we take the example of gold gold in the United States, that we focus on one country to begin to to have gold in the house, it was illegal by a lot time, because we are on the gold standard and to control the currency and the exchange of dollar for gold the federal government said On a personal level you can't have gold you can't own gold for a very long time.
That is, the probability that a government would make a legislative decision of to make prohibited an asset can happen and has happened. That is, it is not something that hasn't happened, it's not something we don't have evidence of. And the United States is not the only country that has made certain assets or certain investments illegal or unlawful to have but look We are in a global world, we are in a very connected world, but the likelihood of them turning it illegal on a global level is very low. And you could tell you about certain jurisdictions such as the United States, which have a legal framework and a much more open regulatory framework. I'm not going to change. Not open, inclined towards innovation that is embracing these technologies, particularly bitcoin then yes there can be that risk, but I would answer as there is history going on and in the future it may happen.
But we also have other jurisdictions much more open and the road if we focus on the United States it's going to be turbulent, because what we have seen that there have been lawsuits, there have been have imposed certain actions, there have been certain people who have done things fraudulent, we have FTX We have certain people, don't we? don't we we have to focus on this talk today, but for good reason, the regulators have had a lot of focus in this industry beyond bitcoin because if it really was the wild west But we're getting to a point that there is a cleansing, a self-cleansing because we've had so much volatility in terms of price. Then at investor level, bitcoin I think it has reached escape velocity. has reached a point that cannot be controlled in terms of regulating it. And the other thing I would say to you as an example of that is a recent paper from (BIS) Bank for International Settlements, which is saying to the international framework of emerging countries they can't control bitcoin, it's here to stay so you better figure out how to tax it. and how to adopt it. Exactly.
and it's time. Always, we've said it in the podcast several times that it's not even the price that That is, the price will never determine your success if not the weather in which you are inside the space and we continually see how with time, when you take the time to study it, understand it, it changes your opinion and it's not the first time it happens. I would like if you could maybe share a little more of your knowledge in other jurisdictions of how are having this conversation? of Bitcoin is not crypto? indeed, in the United States, Bitcoin is the only thing that is a commodity.
All the rest is going to a path of an investment asset and most of them are not registered Then tell us how did you see those differences in opinions? in approaches to bitcoin Look, I tell you about that, but also the U.S. approach and why you counted enough of that in this talk, is that the gringo legal framework becomes relevant in many jurisdictions, very large after of geographically United States. If we do business in certain countries, let's say at certain levels of capital, we have to be regulated by the United States, there are certain things, so the legal framework and regulatory framework in the United States is very relevant, but not always, there are certain ways of being in another legal framework in terms of of jurisdictions that have an inclination to innovation that are very open, I would say to you, other than the United Emirates, that for me is one of the jurisdictions Most exciting, for many reasons but I'm going to tell you about Switzerland.
Switzerland is a country that has had a policy of being neutral and has been a country with a culture that have always tried to to generate everything they need within their borders and advance the economy. And now they have seen at the level not only from the canton, i.e. from the local government, but also federal, that should involve technologies such as blockchain and Bitcoin We have certain cantons and certain cities like Ticino that have made it at a level that you can pay your taxes, you can pay a lot of things and I think it's going to happen a lot more, but there you have regulated banks that focus on Blockchain technology.
There are banks that are Bitcoin banks it's unbelievable then I think you're going to have more jurisdictions, This is a little bit sad because The United States has been the leader in the capital market for a long time. is an extraordinary economy, but at this time it is difficult to operate with this one, with this regulatory cloud. So there are advantages Advantages in the Arab Emirates, in Switzerland in other jurisdictions are less inclined to innovation say countries like Cayman, where many of the funds are based, that's not where... ''We're not going to make your life harder''. they're like "let's watch it unfold" that there are many jurisdictions as well, and maybe it's a good point of view isn't it? because they're not going to slow down innovation, are not going to discourage investment, but at the same time are open to have discussions. I would love to know your knowledge, because that's what's interesting of your very wide reach.
about what you've been the... What is your perspective Now, in all these moments of so many doubts around as you also mention FTX. But you.... the product is Bitcoin, right? That's to do with Bitcoin. Why is that? Why alone? and what difference does that make to you? already on the court? let's put it this way. Look, there's going to be development of technologies that are going to be very interesting.
I hope... the most valuable thing in the world is human ingenuity the power that people want to better themselves, want to develop something new That's what has been advanced the world so much. Not historically we have had the industrial revolution the technological revolution that we have now the computer age, which is what we are living today and we are going to have new eras and it's always because of human ingenuity But today for today here we are, merging the real world with the digital world, we've really focused on on Blockhain technology because there's going to be a lot of... a lot of friction, which can be eliminated, a lot of technology that can speed up a lot of technology that can empower all activities that are going to move to a digital world and there's going to be more than Bitcoin going forward. But for us, as credit investors, that we are naturally pessimistic, we have failed to have conviction in any other that has reached that point of development, I have reached that point of adoption, that point has been reached where we can watch it not just as a future, but in the now that we can involve it in our day to day life.
And I don't want to speak ill of the rest of the technologies, because there are many people who are who are very intelligent, who are thinking of excellent projects, but it's not for me, it's not for me today, maybe not tomorrow not in one year, in two years it's going to have to be a process. As I told you about Bitcoin, gradual I'm going to have to be convinced, there's going to have to be factual evidence that this has arrived to a point of what we can involve as well. and have a value. For us. The only one we have today with that conviction is Bitcoin. and there's not a close second either.
I couldn't tell you that in three years we are not going to have this asset there, I don't look at it. but I can be wrong, can't I? but I just don't see it now Yes, and those fundamentals that is to say which is what leads you to be able to... let's see... the question here is into the fundamentals which is the one that more you feel that it was the one who told you so ''pay more attention to him'' ''pay more attention to it'' ''because there's something here'' Where did the foundation come from that you were able to differentiate? this is, what makes it fundamentally different to the other things that want to be like this. Look, the fundamental thing is the trades that Bitcoin has made concerning other technologies, decentralization is very important and it has really been achieved. Obviously we have certain concentrations, but you can say I think it will continue to decentralize, that is very important and that...
makes it possible for you to create certain characteristics. Safety. Safety to move value is very important if you are talking about any financial business. Number one security number two is trust in Bitcoin has come to have the security for the structure of the network is self-regulating the more value, the more computational power the more secure it will be It is a very interesting model that has reached that point. So, decentralization, security and trust as well that we have had in how technology has developed. Obviously the technology can evolve, we have had Bitcoin protocols we have had changes, but it's already had some...
certain injuries, hasn't he? but he has sealed them and moved forward. So that of having a having a proven asset is very valuable. So for me the combination of characteristics and also the story that gives us that Bitcoin confidence relatively to other technologies.
And you feel that knowing all this part of fundamentals. This having grown in Guatemala, living already probably more time outside than here. does anything influence you knowing Guatemala, coming back here, living here and when you go abroad that change of perspective of how developed jurisdictions so to speak, are seeing Bitcoin and you're seeing how is being used here today? Yes, yes not just this job that I have right now and the project I'm focused on right now. I've always tried to see like the rest of the world is that it really is developed countries in terms of population is a minority, in terms of economy it is the majority, but we're here now, that's been going on for about a quarter that's 50-50 countries developed countries underdeveloped and emerging countries and that will continue to change. So, for me, being a CIO and seeing the trends and how it is in the future always the emerging countries like Guatemala on an approach to see okay what's going on? how is it irrelevant? And this is one of the technologies that is very interesting, because if look at the evolution of financial markets in the United States developed countries in general have had stages. Bitcoin is one of those technologies that can skip steps, we can go from one population that has a number of people that do not are banked, they don't have access to finance to a large proportion and very quickly we don't have to go through all those stages that the developed countries have gone.
So that for me has always been very important and I think it's accelerating. So yes, when I look at Bitcoin, when I look at certain trends technology. And how the operating models are changed, how to service assets and a lot of things, I always focus on the emerging market, I'm going to do something with this how is it going to be relevant to them? and Bitcoin is right Bitcoin's profits. Obviously in Guatemala is very important you have that possibility of remittances, believe efficiencies is very large payments, not just one plus six zeros, but of ten quetzales, 20 quetzales, 30 quetzales. That's very powerful.
At the level of streamlining, lowering costs and obviously include more people in the... in the formal economy, it's really going to be... it's going to be transformational, in terms of how do these technologies are going to change Guatemala? and I hope Guatemala continues on this path and accelerates as well, how will you look at Bitcoin and how companies like you don't? are going to be able to leverage the what this technology can generate. That's look... what I like so much to be in Bitcoin is the sense of collaboration, and not only is that they are seen in the values, in the spirit, but also that it really is reinforced in the fundamental part of the the reason why which you create a company, right? Because you want to make value generate value in the market and the good thing is that if you are doing something with another company which is also focused on Bitcoin, there is always a point where we all benefit.
Whatever you do is going to benefit me whatever I do is going to benefit you and that's why makes even more sense to collaborate to push, doesn't it? Meaning, when the waters rise all the ships rise, there are many sayings around that. Being in a... in a traditional finance scenario where the activity does is a little more competitive, and because it's such an industry... with such a long history, How did you feel that part? I don't know if there's a fight in there? Everybody wants to be the only one who has Bitcoin? How do you feel about that part? Look ahead I believe that it's going to be very interesting to think the effect that there are only 21 million and how people are going to start to...
say okay. if only 21 million. And it is used as base asset and as the base network for all these utilities should have some.
It's like I should have a little bit of the Internet. Yes, but we have changed the dynamics. Instead of having shares of all these companies operating on the Internet you will be able to be, indeed, an asset a share of this technology. if you use part of Bitcoin, then changes the dynamics completely.
And because there are only 21, that demand and supply is going to create certain dynamics very interesting price dynamics. But that's in the future, isn't it? we don't expect that in five or ten years, but in a short time not only we have the we have the Halving that we can talk about a little bit of that too, which is a supply and demand dynamic that can change the price in a short time. But how do I look at it? The finance industry is very competitive, is one of the most competitive industries because the margins are attractive, has an incredible ability to grow.
It has become really an industry that brings a lot of talent really, and obviously over the last few years it's involved a lot of technology such as AI and have started to use technologies such as blockchain. That's where we're going to talk about that as well, because there are very large companies like the bank. J. P. Morgan the most valuable bank in the world using Blockchain technology. This is one of the people still who has not said publicly, by the way that Bitcoin.... Let's see, that would be another marker, a great marker But look, in the Bitcoin world we have very good connectivity including with you in Guatemala, with companies in Europe, in Israel is a collaborative one, is an environment where yes, there is that effect.
That you said that I help you because you are going to help me too and all And if we succeed together we will overtake the industry and I think that's going to hold because we change the dynamics You are not competing head to head in the term of that I have one bank against the other. Here we are competing for services and products and there is still so much white space, that we want to walk talk to each other and work on the advancement of this mission. and we are still the minority.
The truth you can't say that Bitcoin belongs to everyone doing this education so that there will be more people to get involved, but really creates an interesting dynamic, a dynamic that I like very much. It's very, very refreshing relative to what it used to be, and it's been coming for a long time Actually we talked to the majority of the companies that are only in Bitcoin and we're always like what do we do next? How can we collaborate together? and so far we have found many ways to do so If it's bigger it's totally different and for someone who wants to start to make a business, obviously could consider a Bitcoin standard to base your business on. And how can you benefit from this... How would you say? It's not an industry, but it is.
It's a network that really wants everyone to move forward. Yes, that's... That always impresses me when you go to conferences.
And all the attitude inside the conferences is that of brotherhood, of getting to know each other, of talking, of sharing. And indeed, also is as mentioned many times in this podcast. That's the reason for this podcast that we all motivate each other to learn. And if we understand what it is? we can see how it we can integrate to what we are doing on a day to day basis and at the end that what it's going to do is that it's going to give you more motivation, to get up every day, to give your best side of you to your family, to your business, to everything because you are doing something in which you are seeing and feeling that change and I would like to to get into that part on your side because, I know you changed continents by lines and everything, What do you feel is the most motivates you today in the mornings? when you wake up and say... am I going to my office or your desk? Look, the world of Bitcoin... is very exciting, it's very exciting because it's growing very fast, is evolving a very positive way, as I was telling you, and I really I have become, very optimistic the last four weeks that hasn't happened in a long time, because the rate of change is accelerating.
But what motivates me? It's really the impact The impact at the level not only economic but social, of what we are doing day by day it gets to push a lot of people. Obviously at this time we are talking about operations large commercials, where we are engaging the markets and customers traditional, but the potential of this technology is incredible. Because we are a regular entity, I cannot give you the specific details of how we're going to use it, but I look at it in areas where we can actually offer inclusion to financial services that has not been known in the past more competitive products in terms of that do not exist today we can also use technology to be a leader in many areas where it has not been possible to be a leader there have been very few suppliers or no suppliers at all then there is a lot. Then simply the opportunity is the most exciting thing, which is very big.
and if really that impact at the economic level and on a social level is is my engine it's all like this, it's huge It's exciting. Well, the truth itself, the good thing and what moved me to have you back here in your in your land, talking about something you are so passionate about. maybe as a way of wrapping it up, I would like to that you would explain which... from your perspective you see the differences of the opportunities that we can or how we can catalog Bitcoin here and how it's looking in more developed jurisdictions? What are the key differences? And key opportunities to understand and why not always get carried away by what is happening on the side, but to see it from the local perspective? is very important in the computer world.
I say this, to new hires we have the most valuable thing you have is your time. And the second thing I tell you is how do you create your perspective? your time, The number one recommendation is "Spend your time, learning about Bitcoin". And second of your question to have the right perspective. And the right perspective on Bitcoin in terms of how it look at the Bitcoin in different jurisdictions. As we are saying, there are jurisdictions such as the United States, where they take Bitcoin and put it into blockchain, but the reality is not that.
The reality is that Bitcoin is super clear at the "CFTC" level. as we've already said, and still the "FCC'' which is the other regulator of investment assets in the United States, he hasn't really said anything negative and I don't think he's going to say anything negative. Probably they are the regulators they are the ones who regulate and make the rules, but you have all these other countries, 200 countries. and obviously the United States doesn't even have...
what does it have? 300-odd million. There are 8 billion more people in the world and as I was telling you, developed countries are already 50% economic activity. Emerging countries now now it's 50, they're going to go up to 70, 75, and not for long. Then really it's worth it to be looking at other jurisdictions.
What are the prospects? how do you use it today? you have countries like Brazil, Mexico, that we are here, our neighbors and countries like Argentina, that are embracing it in different ways. There's really a lot of them, many ways of looking at Bitcoin as an alternative currency, a way to create profits like what they are doing in Ibex. There are many things for many people it's really a technology that gives a lot and worth understanding the point of view, not only from Bloomberg, which tells you... the ''FCC'' and the ''CFTC'' are doing this.
but let's look at it globally and say "oh it's a true story." let's look at the United Arab Emirates let's look at Latin America and create that perspective is not as easy as it looks, because obviously the new cycle has certain objectives, the objective is to have your attention, to have had your most valuable asset which is your time, because it goes to have a sensational news, but you have to see more, you have to see beyond and really try to see holistically what's going on Yes, also as Guatemalans we have a very unique opportunity and we are blessed to have El Salvador next door as the only country that has declared Bitcoin as legal tender. Then yes it is exciting, exciting for everything, isn't it? I appreciate everything so much.
your knowledge your point of view, are very unique and bring a lot of value to the conversations. I hope it helps all of us to make that extra step. And to close the last question, a little bit on a personal level, how did you feel about those conversations? Now that you're seeing your parents and everything? Obviously I'm sure they are full of pride with all the accomplishments that you have achieved, nor at the international level and in the field you are in. But when you threw "Bitcoin" at them there.
Look, I had a lot of opportunity to study abroad, to have a career so far so good and they are very proud But yes, when I started talking about Bitcoin you have done all this Why are you getting into this? What is this? and obviously goes to what we talked about before, which is the perspective. They love to read, but they read the news they want to read the sensationalist news and it's gone. It has taken them a long time to recently that I have shown them the last four weeks, but before that there is really a lot, far beyond Bitcoin Initially, which has been easier for me to me is to distill it into a technology. That's what I can put it to you on the side.
very, very personal, how I've positioned it, but it was difficult at certain points, but it got there. But today for today I would say that I'm going to show you, they're going to continue being very proud of what I'm going to do in the future, what we are building and obviously we are building in Bitcoin, it should be very exciting There should be plenty of opportunities. Thanks for sharing Excited to see you again here in Guatemala, hopefully soon. And well, this is the end of Ibex podcast number 57 in the block number 797,859. From the only timeline that matters you can follow us on networks right Where can they follow you? Do you have a Twitter or something? Yes, I have Twitter, but I'm not very active.
I think we could put my linkedIn as the main method if you want to contact me and if anything related to financial services I'll be glad to do the time Thank you. See you next time thank you Esteban.