FULL INTERVIEW | NASA Harvest’s Inbal Becker-Reshef on The Point Cloud | Space to Table

FULL INTERVIEW | NASA Harvest’s Inbal Becker-Reshef on The Point Cloud | Space to Table

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James: From Agerpoint I'm  James Kotecki and this is The Point Cloud.   My guest is the Director of NASA Harvest, the  National Aeronautics and Space Administration's   global program to promote food security and  agriculture with satellite observations. Dr.   Inal Becker Reshef welcome to the show. Inbal: Thank you. 

James: How'd I do  with that introduction? Is that   how uh, you introduce NASA Harvest? When  you meet someone at a cocktail party and   tell them your cool. Inbal:   Um, no, I think you did a much more dramatic  and better job than I would make sure. I'll   take around with you to the cocktail party. James: Well, NASA's all about, uh,   dramatic, uh, sweeping vistas of space and the  planet, and that's what we're here to talk about. 

But before we get into all of that, uh, just  wanna know what, what drew you to this work?   Where does this spark for the passion  for satellite observation, NASA harvest?   Where does that come from for you? Inbal: It's probably a   combination of my. Experiences and  on a personal level and,   and then kind of as I developed professionally,  um, I think I always knew that I wanted to   make some kind of a positive impact. I grew up moving around every year or   two. I lived on three different continents,  saw a lot of different ways of living in,   and also a lot of different challenges. And I  started studying, um, soil science and agriculture   and. Kind of by chance got into remote sensing  and started to recognize how important and how   impactful that kind of technology can be. And I think it was a natural evolution,  

um, working with satellite data and agriculture  and, and recognizing the impact that we can   have in so much still untapped potential that we  have using satellite data to make a difference.   I know it sounds kind of cheesy. James: No, but it's,   it's, it's so cool what you're doing. So na, NASA Harvest. Um, tell me the origin story   then of NASA Harvest. Are you the first director  of this? Is this a program that you helped to   start? Where did this actually come from? Inbal: That's a   really good question. So we  launched NASA Harvest officially in  

2017, but the roots for that  program go a lot further back.  Um, I joined a team at University of Maryland  that was working with U S D A in in NASA back   in mid two thousands, um, who was already  working on how do we better integrate   satellite data into the U S D A foreign, an  agricultural. Agricultural monitoring system,   how do we make satellite data more accessible  and kinda not needing to be a remote sensing   specialist to be able to use that kind of data. Um, and in doing that, we recognized that there   were a lot of different countries around the  world trying to do very similar things. And,  

and this was led by somebody called, uh,  professor Chris Justice, who I worked, uh, with   very closely and eventually brought together  the international community. Under what's now   called glam, it's a G 20 initiative. At the same time, NASA recognized   that within its applied sciences  program, and that's where NASA Harvest   sits, uh, didn't have a specific application area focused on agriculture.  

And so over the years, they made the case to.  Put together a program that would be specifically   focused on agriculture. And they wanted to  look at a different framework or a different   model for doing that than they traditionally had. And so initially, NASA Harvest was an experiment.   They competed out, uh, the program. Um, and  the objective to doing, setting it up in, in   this way was so that it could have a, a perhaps, A  bigger impact so we could partner with governments   more easily. We could par partner with private  sector companies, humanitarian organizations,  

because I actually don't sit inside of NASA  headquarters, so I report into NASA headquarters.  NASA Harvest is a, is a headquarters program,  um, but it's actually run out of University   of Maryland and that enabled us to be quite  dynamic in terms of how we partner and, and,   um, run the, the program. When I think about   agriculture and space, if you say those two  words to someone, they [00:04:00] might be   thinking about growing a new strand of wheat in  zero gravity or terraforming mars or something.  Is that the reaction that you sometimes  get when you start talking about this? Do   people need to kind of reorient on the fact  that No, actually what we're doing is we're   using satellites to look at agriculture on  earth, the most important planet that we.   Yeah, that's   right. Yes. But I would say less and less, right? So more and more people are aware that we're using   satellite data in, in a lot of different ways  for monitoring agriculture on, um, on our planet,   on on earth. I do of course, often get a question  about, you know, can we grow food on the moon and,  

um, or other planets? Uh, but, but yeah, I think  there is some element of surprise for people   initially when they secure NASA and agriculture. Um, but I think as. Area and, and field really   are growing very rapidly. There's  more and more familiarity with,   um, with this and it makes more sense to people. [00:04:57] James: So how does this actually work   [00:05:00] in practice? Can you give us just like  some basic numbers here, just the basic framework   for understanding this. I know that there are a  lot of satellites orbiting the planet right now.   How many of them can we use for agriculture? How  many does NASA harvest actually use to, to look at   agriculture? Do you share these satellites with  other people? Are you just kind of tapping into   satellites that are there doing other things a  lot of the time? Like how? Like logistically,   what is actually happening with NASA harvest? [00:05:26] Inbal: So we use a lot of different   kinds of satellites, both in the public  sector and in the private sector.   Um, I think today they're around a thousand,  maybe a little bit over a thousand Earth   observing satellites that are orbiting the  earth all the time, taking a lot of imagery.  

We've seen a really rapid increase  in satellites in the last few years.  I think if you look just like five or six years  back, there would've been around 400 satellites,   um, that are earth observing specif. And one  of the trends and why we see so many more of   those is that there's been much increasing,  kind of sending up these [00:06:00] fleets   of satellites. Like you might have heard of a  company called Planet for example, or others  

that are working together and synchronous to  ultimately enable us to have more frequent   observations of the same spot all the time. Um, our primary. Data that we use have,   have been the public open and, and free and open  satellite data. So a lot of people might not   recognize that a lot of the satellite data that's  out there, um, by nasa, by the European Space   Agency and other, uh, space agencies are actually  free and open, recognizing that to have an impact.  The fact that satellite data are free  and open means that we can use them and,   and utilize their, the insights from them a lot  more than if we have to pay for those. But there  

has become a really important role also for the  commercial satellites, especially these small,   um, satellites that are, uh, Lower cost than  they would've been just even a few years ago.  Uh, and, and also providing a lot of  really valuable information. So on the   Har NASA Harbor side, we are using a lot  of different kinds of satellites that are,   if [00:07:00] you think about, you know,  they're monitoring the environment around   us all the time. They're, they're, they're  able to monitor, Almost every field or every   field across the globe on an almost daily basis. And so what satellites can do is they can see kind   of in the same wavelengths that you and I see in  the visible range of the electromagnetic spectrum,   but they can also see in a lot of other  wavelengths. Um, and that means that we   can see a lot of things that we can't see with the  naked eye. And of course we have the vantage point  

of space, and so we can see also a lot more at one  time or monitor it essentially the entire earth.  [00:07:32] James: So is it fair to say that you  at NASA Harvest can basically see everything that   humans are growing outdoors to eat every day? [00:07:46] Inbal:   Close to that. Okay. So we can see a lot of  those fields. I think a lot of what it is is   being able to convert, you know, this tremendous  amount of data into actual information, right?  Into what is [00:08:00] each field growing,  um, how is it developing? When was it planted,   when was it harvested? Um, what kinds of, uh,  management practices were applied, right? Like   satellite data can give us a lot of insights  about. But in order to be able to do that,   that means we've gotta develop models, we've  gotta have reference data from the ground that   are training and and developing these models  to turn that data into actual information.  [00:08:23] James: Can you speak a bit more about  the way that this kind of fits into the overall   puzzle here? Because someone listening  to this for the first time, I think, oh,   we have total so satellite coverage of the  earth. So as long as there's a plant growing   outdoors game over, we can. We can see everything  and all we have to do is run some models on it,  

like, but you're talking about ground  validation and other kinds of technologies.  So where does, how do satellites fit in your mind  in the overall picture of how we collectively,   whether that's you at NASA harvest  or just we as a species kind of   figure out and understand what we're growing. [00:08:54] Inbal: Sure. So satellite data, um,   you know, for one of the ways that we can,  for example, identify a [00:09:00] specific   crop type and, and start to map it, is it  has different kinds of signatures, right?  So if you want it, it has different signatures  and different wavelengths in the visible versus   the near infrared versus the shortwave infrared.  But it also has a temporal signature that is very,   very important, right? So it's planted, it  starts to emerge, it grows, it will mature,   it will sse, it will be harvested. And so also looking at that signature through   time and through different wavelengths becomes  very important for then developing models that   we can apply to then classify, for example,  entire country or the globe. But, I think,   but what we need to do to be able to do that is  that I need to be able to say, okay, this is what   corn looks like, or This is what corn looks like  in all possible different vari variations of it. 

Train a model to then be able to pick that up, to  understand that variability and to then be able   to map it. And then crucially, we need to be able  to validate that. Right. So it's not good enough   that I can run a model and produce a map, um,  that, you know, a model will [00:10:00] produce   a result, but how good is that result? How accurate is that result? And that's   something that we spend a lot of time, not  just we, the whole remote sensing community.   Spends a lot of time on, on being able to make  sure that we understand the uncertainty about   what we're producing, the types of information  that we're producing. So having that connection  

back reference to the ground to what we're  actually monitoring is absolutely critical   for being able to use satellite data. [00:10:23] James: Makes sense. Are, are   there other limitations when it comes to  satellite observation in terms of agriculture   data that people might not be aware of. [00:10:33] Inbal: Sure there are lots   of challenges and, and, and limitations, right?  Going from having the, the necessary ground data   to looking at very complex agricultural systems. You can imagine small holder systems that are very   small fields that might have intercropping in the  field. How do we monitor that, um, to being able   to develop models that can forecast and predict  yields accurately, uh, to being able to monitor d.  

Agricultural practices. But when you start to be  able to develop [00:11:00] those kinds of products   and start to, um, understand what the uncertainty  and those are, you can also start to answer really   critical kinds of questions around, you know,  what's driving yield, where are yield gaps?  What, what, what kinds of practices might be  driving those? And, and those sorts of things.   Um, but there's also a challenge on the, the  amounts of data that we have. How do we process   it? How do we make that more equitable? How do  we make sure that we are. Developing products   that are actually gonna be used, right? So how do we make sure that the things   that we do are user driven, um, and that are  ultimately gonna be taken up? And that's a   big focus for us on the NASA Harbor side. We  try to always start with an end user, because   otherwise, and, and that's really key for being  able to bridge this kind of science and research   into actually having impact in, in, in operations. Because if I'm gonna develop. And not having ever  

talked to you in your, in a ministry of  agriculture, why would you ever use this   map? Right? So it's gotta be co-developed, it's  gotta be. Um, and I think the other side of that   is really thinking about how do we ultimately  produce that capacity [00:12:00] to, um, in the   institutions to be able to uptake and use these  kinds of information and, and satellite systems.  So there are a lot of technical and, and a  lot of other kinds of, uh, challenges I think,   in ultimately being able to reach the,  the potential that satellite data offer.  [00:12:15] James: So let's talk a bit more  about how that plays out. So there's all  

this data. NASA Harvest is hopefully putting  some analysis and insight on top of that data.  So tell me about who you're sharing that data with  and what they are actually using it to do. Let's   get into some of the users and the use cases here. [00:12:32] Inbal: And I should just say we are one   player in this field. So there's  a lot of different entities and,   and organizations that are developing different  satellite products and, and, and information.  And maybe one thing I didn't say upfront was that  NASA Harvest is a consortium. So we're over 50  

different partners from across the world, from  public and private sector organizations working   together. Um, but the types of users that we have  ranged from humanitarian organizations. Uh, un   types of organizations to ministries of [00:13:00]  agriculture or statistical agencies, uh, down to   different kinds of private sector organizations,  whether it's, um, we have some partnerships with   insurance companies, some with farmer advisory,  um, some with those that are really looking   at the transition to sustainable agriculture  and how do you better monitor or be able to,   um, show the different practices,  for example, that, that farmers   are implementing at a broad and large scale. How do you understand what the implications of   those can be? So we have, we, we purposely  have tried to target really across the   agricultural sector, um, different types of  end users for ultimately being able to uptake   and, and utilize better satellite information. [00:13:40] James: Something that I know you've   spoken about before, and that's certainly  top of mind right now, is the work that NASA   Harvest has done with its observations  of Ukraine and agriculture production.  Uh, during and subsequent to the Russian  invasion. So I'd love to hear that story   again for our audience. Uh, I think it's really  fascinating and meaningful [00:14:00] what  

you were able to do there. [00:14:01] Inbal: I should probably say that I   actually started a lot of my career in going into  all this is working in Ukraine and I did my PhD on   yield forecasting of wheat in Ukraine. So spend a lot of time,   um, going to Ukraine and, and working with U S D  A and with partners in Ukraine. And so developed   a lot of relationships doing that. [00:14:19] James: Just to say,  

I think Ukraine is. A a bread basket, right?  It's a major producer of wheats, and so the   ability for them to be agriculturally productive  is very important, not just for Ukraine itself,   but for the broader region. Is that fair to say? [00:14:34] Inbal: Absolutely, absolutely. Ukraine   is an absolute critical bread basket.  Um, it produces, I think prior to the   word was exporting around 10% of global wheat  exports, about over 40% of sunflower oil. A   very important producer for corn as well. Um,  and a lot of, I think the world Food Program.  Uh, in terms of its wheat food aid was over  40% was [00:15:00] sourced out of Ukraine.  

Um, and you have different countries that 80  to 90% of their imports of wheat, for example,   depended on Ukraine. So very important country.  Um, and. When the, when Russia invaded Ukraine,   um, we immediately were in contact with  the Ministry of Agriculture through   connections and, and work relationships that we  were already had, and they asked us to initially,   um, support their analysis and assessment  of what was happening under the occupied.  Russian territories, temporarily occupied  territories where they didn't really have   a lot of information coming in anymore. And  where satellite data actually was providing   the only means for really being able  to monitor that entire territory. And,  

um, so we, the, one of the first questions  they asked us was, well, what proportion of.  Uh, Ukraine's crop plans were under Russian  occupation and specifically what proportion of   winter wheat, which is one of the main production  crops in Ukraine, was under Russian occupation.   Um, [00:16:00] We set up several different  partnerships in order to be able to rapidly   answer those questions. Uh, one of 'em was  with the Institute for the Study of War that,   as you probably know, provide every day an update  on where that front line is and how that's moving. 

Um, and one of the reasons this question was  important too, is that most of the statistics   mean going, going backwards in time are reporting  on administrative level units. Right. So you,   you, but the, the line of contact, or the o  the occupation area, of course doesn't follow   any kind of administrative boundary. And so  there were no statistics to be able to look   at really what proportion is, is that occupying [00:16:34] James: So the equivalence of a county   or a state level production data. Right so- [00:16:38] Inbal: That's right. Exactly.  [00:16:39] James: But, but of  course if, if half of that,   I'm just gonna say county or state or province  is occupied and half isn't, then you don't have   good data about how that could actually work. [00:16:47] Inbal: That's right. Right. And so  

again, that's where satellite data can do that  because we can monitor it at the pixel level   and start to then come up with statistics on  that. And so we, we partnered also with Planet,   one of those [00:17:00] commercial companies that  I, that I talked about earlier, that has a fleet   of satellites, um, that gives daily observations. And that was very helpful for us because Ukraine   can be very cloudy. And so it meant if a certain  area didn't have a cloud. Over it. Then we can   start to, in, in a sense of thinking about  as a puzzle, every time there was a small   area that didn't have clouds, you could  puzzle that area together and mosaic that,   um, every two weeks to get a, a  pretty close to cloud free image.  Um, I should say that also radar data  can, can help and do the same. And we   also use those kinds of data sets. But,  so that was the first thing we, we did.  

And we found that around 22 to 23% of Ukraine's  cropland overall cropland was occupied by Russia.   Um, and we found that around 29% of its wheat,  uh, planted area was, was occupied by Russia.  And then there were two really big uncertainties.  Um, and there were a lot of assumptions. Being  

talked about, which was how much of their spring  planted area, right? So that's the corn, the   sunflower, really [00:18:00] important crops would  actually be able to be planted. Um, recognizing   again that the winter wheat was planted prior  to the war, so that area was gonna be planted.  But again, a big uncertainty how much of that  would actually be able to be harvested. And a   lot of the numbers that were running out there was  anywhere between 30 to 50%. Wouldn't be planted,   wouldn't be harvested on, on the wheat  side. Um, And so we started to map. So   the first thing we did was, of course  we mapped where the winter crops were,   and then we started to follow all that area that  could potentially be planted into spring crops. 

And what we found was is that most everything  looked like it was getting planted, including   in the occupied territories. What we saw was that  there was a concentration of. Area of, uh, fields   that were not getting planted right along that  line of contact. The, the, the, uh, occupation,   um, front line, but for the rest,  a lot of the fields or the majority   of the fields were being planted. And ultimately it was around 88%   of fields or of area in the occupied territories  was [00:19:00] left, was planted, sorry, 88% was   planted 12%. Approximately 12% was left unplanted  in the occupied territories. Um, And so that was   very different than all the other numbers that  were being put out there. Their expectation was,   was that a lot less would be planted. And then as the season progressed,  

we could, uh, progressively map other crop  types and, and look at what was going on.   Um, we found that around 21% of the summer  crops were under occupation. 14% of the winter   rape seed. This is an important oil seed was  under occupation. Um, And we ultimately then as   the harvest season started to, to progress, we  were monitoring then again the progression of,   of the wheat harvest in particular. And again, what we saw was contrary   to mo, what most of the assumptions were is that  the fields were. Also all getting harvested.   Um, and this really surprised us. We did a lot  of due diligence to make sure that we had a lot  

of validation. What the way to validate what  we were doing was to zoom [00:20:00] in and   look at the daily imagery at a three meter  resolution and look at that, the actual   date that we see the, the harvest happening. And um, so based on our maps, and I should say   this before too, it's not enough to make a map  out of remote sensing data that map we still   need to. Uh, random stratified samples in order  to be able to come up with actual statistics,   with an uncertainty around them. And  so we did that for the harvested area.  Um, and again, what we found was, uh, the  large majority of we had been harvested,   including in the occupied territories. The  area where we see most of the areas not being,   um, not harvested, was again, around that  front line, the, the, the line of contact.  

And then what we could finally do is ultimately  the, the number everybody's after is product.  And so we took the, the, the yield numbers that  were coming out of the Ministry of Agriculture   for the Ukrainian controlled territories. We ran  our own yield model on the occupied territories   and where they didn't report. And so together  [00:21:00] with our, um, area planted estimates,  

the harvested proportion of those and our yield. Our combined yield numbers from our side and the   ministry came up with, uh, with around 26.6  million tons of wheat that were harvested, and   that was much higher than expected around close  to 6 million tons above most leading estimates.   Um, and 22% of that production was  coming out of the occupied territories. 

So what satellite data can do is it can show us  that all that's getting harvest. What they can't   do is tell us who's harvesting it. Where is that  wheat right ending up? Is it getting exported?   Where is it being stored? Right? Like that. Those  are things we can't comment on or we can't see.   Um, what we can see and what we do is really very  much try to stick to the facts and what we can   monitor and observe, provide the validation,  provide the uncertainty around those numbers. 

And so of course that brings out a very  important point. What happens to that   5.8 million tons of wheat that we saw that  was getting harvested off of the occupied   territories? And one of the things we saw is that  a lot of the different statistics also that are   coming out there is, is not always very clear. Is it Talking [00:22:00] about all of Ukraine   is talking about Ukraine minus Donbass and  Crimea is it talking about? And so there's some   variation in those statistics, but I do think it's  important to really be transparent around what's   being produced. It obviously translates into  a tremendous. To Ukraine, that 22% or those,  

um, you know, 5.8 million tons. I think we estimated around 1.2, 1.3 billion   in losses just from the harvested wheat. Um, To  Ukraine and we are working very closely with the   Ministry of Agriculture. We are interacting with  them very closely, providing these information   and, and estimates. Um, and I should also  say we've collaborated and coordinated with   other entities that are working on remote sensing,  including a project called the ISA World Cereals. 

And so just to mention that, um, there has  been some. Exchanges and, and collaborations,   but it did really enable us to be able to  provide information in areas that otherwise   there is no information or very limited  information coming out. Um, and I think   that highlights really the value and importance of  satellite data in, in these kinds of situations.  Now in [00:23:00] Ukraine, this is due  to war and conflict, but you can imagine.   Um, an extreme event, right? A flood event or a  drought or other. Um, and as we see more climate   change, we know there's an increasing frequency  and severity of extreme events. And again, I  

think the value that satellite data can provide in  terms of being very rapid, being able to look at   a large spots of, of land becomes very important  and, and can provide really valuable information.  [00:23:24] James: You know, you mentioned that  satellite data can take you, uh, much further   than people might expect, but maybe not all  the way towards kind of the actual truth of,   you know, what's happening to that wheat. You  can know how much is getting harvested. You   can't exactly know who's harvesting  or, or what they're doing with it.  Do you sense that policymakers, the people who  use this data, Understand that. Do you get people   who come to you and wanna use satellite data as  kind of the be all, end all, and, uh, are maybe   disappointed that it can't tell them these,  you know, quote deeper truths that we want   to get to? Or are people kind of understanding  the role that satellites play and that they're   a [00:24:00] piece of a, of a bigger puzzle? [00:24:03] Inbal: I think for the most part,   people understand that they are a  piece of a, of a, you know, a broader,   you know, they have a role to play in providing in  information. I think on the remote sensing side,  

we all have to be very careful about not over  promising what the capabilities and what the   accuracies are of, of the, of the models  or the maps and, and the statistics.  And we've always gotta be very careful  to communicate uncertainties and,   and what it can and cannot do. I mean, there  were some interesting studies that we saw.   That we're using satellite data actually to  track ships and to track ships that go dark   and then, you know, come back and that, you  know, that's certainly not our expertise,   but there was actually utilization of satellite  data for, for looking at that and, and still   is as, as well by other groups. [00:24:44] James: Interesting.   You mentioned getting down to a three  meter resolution with the work you were   doing, uh, observing Ukraine. Is that the state  of the art right now? And is there an expectation  

about, you know, in the near term, just how  good this [00:25:00] technology can get? Like   what's the cusp of what you're almost able to do? What are you excited about being able to do with   the next generation of whatever the technology? [00:25:08] Inbal: Yeah, and I think the resolution   has to be suited to the, to the task and to the  target. So fields in Ukraine are actually really   large. We didn't need three meter resolution  to do everything we, we did. It was helpful.  For example, we delineated the field boundaries,  right, of every field across Ukraine. And for   that, that resolution was actually very helpful.  Um, I think what's exciting about what's coming   are also new sensors. More, there's hyperspectral,  there's looking at more sensors that can provide   more information, for example, on soil  moisture, deeper into the soils and more,   um, radar kinds of systems. But I think it's the combination  

of technologies that's. That's very  exciting and being driven then,   and making sure that we're also investing in the  systems, in the institutions that can ultimately   use these and, and take those up. And so it's a  combination of the cloud computing capabilities,   the supercomputing [00:26:00] capabilities, the  machine learning and AI methodologies and, and   models, but also driven by and working closely  with domain experts in, in, in different areas   in agriculture and, and policy makers, and  making sure that we're able to convert really.  These large amounts of information into actually  actionable data, actionable information.   And I should say one other thing that, that I'm  particularly excited about or. That I think is  

really important. And one of the things, a new  initiatives that we're setting up under Harvest   is being able to set up a center for rapid  response, agricultural rapid response, right?  And so being able to rapidly look at these  different kinds of situations, it might be   uncertainty of a big producer. Exporting  country, or it might be due to a flood or   drought or other kind of a, of a climatic hazard  or, or disaster, or it might be due to conflict,   but being able to very rapidly be able to respond  into policy needs or into decision makers.  [00:27:00] And being able to harness this  technology through the large network of experts   that, that we've developed, I think can be very  important. And also thinking about anticipatory,   right? Like where might we see and, and building  out different scenarios as well. Um, these  

kinds of data can be very important. [00:27:15] James: There's a famous picture of   the earth from space. I think it was one of the  first pictures that was taken, and I think it's   called the blue marble, where people looking  at that picture had a new understanding and   perspective. Their home planet maybe wanting to  take a little bit better care of it. Does the work   that you do have an emotional impact like that? Does it, does it change your relationship to,   to sound cheesy how you see the world? [00:27:42] Inbal: Yeah, absolutely. I mean,  

I think if you think about that blue marble,  right? It was one recognizing that most   of our earth is. Right. And like seeing  this little dot of blue in, in the vast   emptiness of nothing. This is our planet. This is the only place we have to live.   And there there's a lot of [00:28:00] exciting  space exploration, but this is our planet and   um, And I think, you know, food security is one  of the biggest challenges we face today. Climate  

change, right? There are a lot of, and, and  those are obviously very closely intertwined.  There are a lot of massive challenges  that we see today and I think,   um, this work, I would say for many people  is very personal. It feels like there is   a lot we can do. We need to be able to  measure, monitor, and be able to inform   and understand. What are we doing? How do we  make progress actually to our target goals?  And, and, um, looking at how do we ultimately live  in a more sustainable way on, on this planet? We   don't have more land we can cultivate. We have a  lot more people coming. How do we do that? And,  

and I think data has to, decisions have  to be driven by data and information.  [00:28:45] James: Dr. Inbal Becker Rashef,  director of NASA Harvest, thank you so   much for joining us today on The Point Cloud. [00:28:51] Inbal: Thank you. It's been a pleasure.  [00:28:54] James: Well, that is our show. Thanks  so much for watching. Please subscribe. Rate us  

five stars. Tell your friends and [00:29:00]  join us on social media at Agerpoint,   where the conversation continues from Agerpoint.  I am James Kotecki and this is The Point Cloud.

2023-04-26 16:40

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