E23 - Emerging Technologies will impact the Future of Public Transportation | Paul Comfort

E23 - Emerging Technologies will impact the Future of Public Transportation | Paul Comfort

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Transit will become more individualized  Mobility will become more individualized   micro Transit autonomous vehicles will be  tuned to you and your needs it really is   the way it has to go right I mean they're  never going to replace you know the subway   Etc but I think that's the next phase  of our of our Evolution as an industry   we already see it it's just taking it to  the next level so individualized Transit   um the guys from transtab used to say it's Pace  personalized autonomous um something to say   something connected electric and so I I generally  agree with that I think that was a great acronym   so that's one two I think we're going to take to  the air now you know people can call these Alexis   Lanes you know people are always upset about when  you add in a pay Lane on a Beltway around a city   and you're like well you know that's the Lexus  Lanes it's only for the rich people but you know   what I get all that but it does take Vehicles off  of the lanes that I'm in because I'm not going to   pay 30 bucks to ride that green line lane but  I am going to stay in here and if you can take   some cars off and make my life easier I don't mind  so the air lanes are the same way right we're not   all going to afford that but I predict by 2030.  for 49 you'll be able to get a vehicle uh and   that depends on where inflation goes but let's say  in 2022 dollars I was saying 99 let's stick with   my 99 for 99 you'll be able to call the VTOL the  electric unmanned vehicle to your front yard in my   house I want to see it right out that window and  I'm going to get in that vehicle and it's going to   take me to downtown Washington DC which you know  to fly is probably only 20 minutes from where I   live and drop me at the roof of the D.O.T building  for a meeting with then secretary Jasper Singh or   whoever it is and I'll be able to go in there for  my meeting and then get picked up and brought back   here so I don't have to go to all traffic that's  I think vertical takeoff and Landing vehicles   I think are going to happen it'll be reality  [Music] welcome to the mobility innovators podcast hello everyone welcome to another episode  of Mobility innovators podcast I'm your   host jaspal Singh Mobility innovator podcast  invite key innovator in the transportation   and Logistics sector to share their experience  and future forecast in this episode we'll be   discussing the future of public transportation  and Key Mobility Trend in North America region   is a Transit evangelist and has been  his career in government and public   transportation he's currently working as  a senior vice president and chief customer   officer at modexo he work as a country  administrator for two Suburban County in   Maryland later he worked as a CEO of mpmi  lab he's an author of four books including   the future of public transportation and his  recent book The Conversation of equity and   inclusion in public transportation also he is  a popular host of Transit and plug podcast and   Transit and plug TV on YouTube I'm so happy  to welcome my good friend Paul Comfort senior   vice president and chief customer officer  at bodexo now it's time to listen and learn hello Paul it's great to have you on the show and  looking forward to learning from your experience   thanks Jasper great to be great to be with you on  your podcast and uh I've really enjoyed getting   to know you over the last few months same here I  mean it's I'm following you what you're doing your   podcast your interviews and your knowledge what  you're spreading all over the world so today what   I want to do I want to spend time with you to  get more more about you because there are a lot   of hidden secret and about your new book which is  you published recently about equity and inclusion   and then your thought on innovation in public  transport sector man you got so much of knowledge   uh collected from all over the world so I would  love to have more knowledge from you about what's   happening in public transport sector and what we  can do but to start with I know you are very vocal   about everything in your profile your LinkedIn  profile is so rich you are so active on LinkedIn   but is there anything hidden or secret which  still people don't know about you and I would   love to know more like some part of Paul  Comfort which people are not aware about   sure I can try um I am like you said I kind of  live my life out loud uh that's just the way   I'm I am as a person and so it actually fits the  job I have which is to be you know a Persona in   the industry um I mean I was thinking about that  question because you told me you're going to ask   me ahead of time and I thought here's a couple  things that maybe people don't know number one   uh is that I had a radio show part-time called  Comfort corner on wctr am 1530 in Chestertown   Maryland for 16 years uh and it it was kind  of like if people who have been around for a   while may remember a guy named Paul Harvey news  and comment and it was kind of like a news and   comment show but more local news so for a while  I even did it live uh in the window of Callahan's   gas and Appliance in downtown Centerville and I  would interview you know local celebrities the   county commissioner or you know somebody from the  military who would just come back from overseas   and those kind of things and I did it uh part-time  just because I love radio um so that so that kind   of what that Jasper actually that's what led me  to doing the podcast when they asked me here uh   at this job would you like to do a podcast  I'm like yeah I mean that's kind of like the   new talk radio oh yeah that's that's something I  think uh a lot of folks uh know that I'm in music   um uh so that's been one of my passions in life  um and I had a band when I was younger um and we   toured and made a record when I was in college  the band was called sons of thunder and we had   a full band you know with backup singers and you  know light crew and sound crew and all that stuff   but to be honest with you Jasper uh when we were  that was like when we were in college you know   and then my rhythm guitar player Zeke uh Ezekiel  he got married and we you know we were like are   we really gonna do this or not because real life  is coming and you know what we decided we weren't   really going to do it that you know we weren't  going to try to go full time we weren't that good   I mean we were you know in our own minds we were  good and uh it ties in with something I posted on   LinkedIn this last weekend which is uh I'm reading  uh Bono's autobiography the guy you know the lead   singer from U2 okay talked about when he was 18  his father said to him you know you need to get   a job and he's like job a job is what you do five  or six days a week eight hours a day to make money   to do what you really want to do on the weekends  and he said I knew I didn't want to I want to stay   as far away from that as possible but he said I  was smart enough even at my age to realize that   if I'm going to do something fun and be able  to get somebody to pay me for it I've got to   be really good at it and he said I wasn't good at  anything and he was smart enough to realize that   and I think we were too with our band you know we  realized you know we're not that great there's so   many great musicians out there but we did have  fun and I've had fun with my whole life I play   some in church and and uh play for shows both my  boys are musicians pretty good actually guitar and   drum I'm actually going to be playing with them  at uh cult classic Brewery uh they have an open   mic night coming up soon here before Christmas I  think I'll do a show with them so um having some   fun with that uh one or two other things that I  thought maybe people will be interested in and   that is interesting for my background right out of  college I had a bunch of great interviews for fun   jobs uh I had spent a lot of my youth real active  in politics and government and the Speaker of the   House of Representatives here in in Maryland the  Speaker of the House of delegates clay Mitchell   uh had been kind of a mentor of mine his son and I  are pretty good friends and he got me an interview   to be a speechwriter for the governor at the time  who was a guy named William Donald Shafer and so I   went in and got the interview and was offered the  position but I turned it down jaspel and it's one   of those lessons in life you know such an idiot  when you're a kid uh you know uh I was thinking   I remember telling them you know I don't want to  be behind the you know the speeches I want to be   out front you know doing it giving things and  being involved and and uh what an idiot I was   you know think about where my life could be now  if I started out at 22 as a speechwriter for at   the time a very popular Governor but young people  you know we and I think that's a lesson that I try   to tell my kids I have six kids um with my wife  who I've been married to 35 years now this month   um but uh you know you don't always start right  where you want to end up you know you got to get   your foot in the door and then get really good  and then you can maneuver yourself to where you   want to go and I guess that's the last kind of  thing from my life is um I've been involved in   politics since I was young I was I wanted to  make a difference that's Jasper is my mantra   for my life I want to make a difference and impact  as many people for good as I can and I felt like I   could do that in government my dad was a minister  I never really felt called if you want to use that   word to go into you know full-time what they  call Ministry you know in a pastor in a church   or anything like that but I felt like I could do  it in government and um and so I've run for office   three times huh something for my background you  know I won for Central Committee but lost for uh   County Commission uh and then I ran again in um  in 2002 I ran for office uh State's Attorney and   I lost for that at um and then I ran a 2014 for  County Commissioner and one for that as a top vote   getter but the the moral of the story and I wrote  a chapter in my book Full Throttle about this yeah   is that every time I've run for office win or  lose something great has come out of it yeah I   mean great even better than the office I mean when  I was when I was 22 of 21 when I ran for County   Commissioner I met a guy a guy who was running for  another office and he was head of the Department   of Aging his name was Irving Pender and he really  liked me and said you know you're a great young   man we have a brand new position coming open  transportation coordinator and 35 years ago   that's how I got into Transportation was running  for office putting myself out there and uh and and   running a decent campaign even though as a kid you  know I remember staying at the Bay Bridge waving   to people if you sign waving here in Maryland you  know I don't know if they do that other places but   um and then when I ran for State's Attorney I  lost to a guy that became our congressman and   now as a judge and became friends of his I ran  again at someone else but he beat him in the   primary and so but even though I lost that race  with 43 percent of the vote again I met these   guys who were all running for County Commissioner  and they appointed me as County Administrator and   then the last time I ran for County Commissioner  one I was friends with a guy who was running for   governor at the time Larry Hogan and then he won  I won we both won that time and he's like Paul you   know you've got background in transportation  you're an attorney and you've run government   agencies you're just who we need to run the MTA  and so that's how I got kind of the penultimate   job of my career running you know one of the top  12 transit systems in America and Baltimore so a   couple lessons from all that is you don't start  you know where you're going to end you got to be   willing to take a job a little bit you know lower  on the on the poll so to speak to uh work your   way up and then good things could come out of bad  things actually better than you thought if you run   it with dignity and you're not an idiot and a jerk  you know what you're doing and and you don't burn   your Bridges I've learned never to burn my bridges  even yeah you know when I've been let go I'm you   know I try to leave with dignity I got let go of  one job I remember telling the Washington Post uh   you know well you know that's I'm a big boy it's  not the cookie crumbles it's an appointed job   I'll move on to the next thing and you know good  things come out of that you don't burn anybody   on your way out the door that doesn't suit you  so anyway there's a couple uh stories from my   earlier career and lessons I learned from them a  lot of them I would say thank you for sharing this   I mean I never knew this uh past background and I  love some of the listen I just want to summarize   one lesson you mentioned that you need to know  what you're a good act and if you're not good   at you need to be ready to leave it don't try to  spend your whole life if you know if you're not   good at something second is take action in life  don't just just think about it if you want to   do something even if you don't get the you know  maximum out of it you will get something out of   it so take action and do something go out and meet  people like you mentioned you ran for position you   didn't get some of these positions but you met  some of the best friend and that give you you   know pushing your career in another way so thank  you for creating good great lesson from your life   thank you yeah it's um that's a very good point  you make it we can make it later too but I always   uh I've spoken at College graduations High School  graduations as commencement speaker and the main   lesson I try to do there is what you just said  where your interests and your abilities intersect   yeah your interests what you're interested in and  then what you're good at not what your mom says   you're good at like because your mom thinks you're  good at everything right and that's why it's great   to have a great mom right but it's it's what other  people acknowledge that you're good at where they   intersect that is where you should focus your  attention that could be your destiny uh if but   you got to take action dude I wake up every day  full of energy I don't know what it is it's like   I've got a tornado inside of me and I want to  accomplish things today and so you know I do   all the things that you're supposed to right you  make your list of what you need to accomplish the   next day when you end today uh and I'm constantly  Jasper one other thing I wanted to mention since   we're in this kind of you know ethereal background  thing is I think it's important to take time to be   quiet and to meditate and to calm your spirit uh  and you know we have so much media and stuff you   know in our minds and I've got actually a chair  right in my bedroom right uh that I sit in every   day and calm myself and be quiet and listen to the  inner voice calmness in you and I'm telling you   um I get some of the best ideas there if you  can have a creative idea that can be successful   uh that can be worth so much more than eight  hours of the grind one idea can be you know I   was reading the other day how that um um the  Edison you know used to fall asleep with a   steel ball in his hand when it hit the floor  it bounce and wake him up and the idea that   was in his head right then was what he would  do because he was tapping into a subconscious   which is which is great no thanks for sharing  that I I fully agree with you meditation is very   important you know having your calm space there is  this famous investor called Naval Ravi Khan then   he say when you do meditation the state of your  meditation state of your life so if you are calm   if you are peaceful it means your life is calm and  peaceful if you can't sit quiet for two minutes it   means your life is you know need some some work  and you need to improve it so thanks for sharing   I mean these are like amazing lessons you have  shared thank you Paul yeah I really appreciate   it can I say one more thing please please please  it's just you know I'm an inductive thinker so   all this stuff comes to me as we're talking I'm  I'm making I'm pulling it together into a theme   hopefully uh I've got some people I know that have  a running dialogue in their head I think uh and   um you can be in a conversation with them and  it it I was I was out actually with someone   like this just last week and uh it was me and  him and another good buddy and um he wouldn't   shut up you know he ran his mouth for over an hour  and um and he had a dialogue in his head that we   could not I I couldn't so my point is you need to  be self-aware yeah uh if you want to be a leader   um you know you've got these leaders who you  know are you know General Patton out there   you know but I think the the best and the wisest  leaders take time to listen take time to interact   with other people are really interested in what  other people have to say because they're smart   enough to realize that they don't know everything  and they don't dominate every interaction I know   I'm dominating our conversation now but so you're  the guest you okay that's true right so uh I'm on   the other side of the mic today um but anyway my  point is that's another thing just be self-aware   that you know if you have this dialogue of all the  stuff you need to say maybe say it in bites uh and   let the other person have an opportunity to have  some input and stay focused on what's going on   in the interaction between you not all these 10  stories that you wanted to get out on the table   anyway I don't know what what good that'll be  to anybody but it may apply to one or two people   listening they're like oh yeah I mean we've all  had those moments when somebody speaks into our   life and it helps us when I was this kid that  I was telling you about 22 I had my first job   as transportation coordinator for the county  I remember Bob salute the County Administrator   talked to me after I made a presentation to the  County Commissioners on something and he said   Paul did you ever notice you give a little like a  nervous laugh sometimes right before you answer a   question like no I didn't really notice that  he said well you do and you need to you need   to cool it uh it makes it appear that you are uh  winging it that you don't have a real solid answer   that you're nervous and the Commissioners are  you know budgeting money based on what you tell   them and so you need to get rid of that little  nervous laugh you've got and just say the answer   I've I relish opportunities for people to to um  critique me if they're interested in what's good   for me you know if somebody's just trying to be  destructive and and critical of you that's not   good but if it's a critique intended to make  you better I think we all need to be open to   those don't you yeah yeah no I I think and  that's a problem in today's world people are   jump to give uh you know negative feedback but if  you ask those people okay tell me it's one thing   to improve and they have no no point to tell you  which is sad because I feel if you want to give   any feedback you should give a feedback so that  the other person can improve not to destroy or not   to you know be critical and and that's the world  is becoming so thanks I mean I fully agree with   you that's not the life now you mentioned you had  such a long career in transit sector you started   at the age of 22. I don't want to guess your age  now but I know you are in multi-decade like the  

three yeah I'm over 50. let's just say that it  will always remain you know I'm young at heart   though I feel like I'm like 35 so by heart you are  35 the way you are learning and talking now you   work as a country administrator for two Suburban  County in Maryland and like you mentioned you work   as a CEO of MTA Maryland which is one of the top  15 transit system in the in the US so it's not an   easy job but now you're on the other side of the  job now you're working as a chief customer officer   with the bodexo and the transit leader across the  world now you've seen both the world you've seen   many generations over the period time so I'm very  curious to learn that how you think the transit   industry has changed over the period of time  especially in U.S because a lot of time we don't   realize we think our you know the things are like  that but I think you have seen industry spending   out over the period you've seen on the development  of I.T and infrastructure and new technology how   you think things have changed over the period of  time yeah well I would say in a couple areas uh   one is technology like you mentioned um a lot  of Transit agencies have been stuck in the 80s   and 90s I would say and the technology they're  using and I think the period of the pandemic   where we had to do more things remotely uh made  a lot of Transit agencies realize hey you know   we need to get off paper I remember visiting  a Canadian transit system not too long ago and   they were still having a a utility worker walk the  yard three or four times a day to identify where   all the vehicles were in the yard writing it on a  sheet of paper and then sticking it up on the wall   and dispatch so dispatch could tell the driver  where the vehicle was three hours ago and you   know there's plenty of Technology now available  at one of our companies want this actually sells   a yard finder and I'm sure other people do too uh  which will you know identify where the vehicle is   right now not where it was three hours ago and it  does it off a ping instead of off a person those   kind of things I think um is a big change right  technology yeah technology is a really big change   I I agree with you and also you think in term  of a Manpower in term of a mindset things have   changed over the period of time or you think  there is a lot of work we go out in that area   well in the 70s coming out of um so public  transportation was really big after World War   II right when all the men came back from World War  II public transportation was in its Heyday in the   1950s uh and so private companies like utility  companies set up light rail systems and tram   systems across major cities and even minor cities  you know Greensboro North Carolina places like   that may have had a trolley or a tram and they  were largely run by uh these utility companies and   private companies I remember the city of Baltimore  had a number of Transit companies they called them   at the time and then uh so and everybody was  writing right but um to get to work and to you   know go down and get the boss to do whatever so we  had about a 20-year run and then in the 1970s um   when more people got cars Automobiles and the the  the Advent of a two-car home uh came into place   suddenly people started riding in transit less  and it it was so much so that a lot of the transit   companies went bankrupt and the utility companies  you know the power and light company sold these   agencies and these companies to the cities or  state governments jurisdictional governments   where they were at so in the 1970s uh pretty much  everybody that was a private sector making money   for-profit company on Transit got out because they  just couldn't make the money yeah and uh and so we   had a 40-year run where we had a monopoly where  Transit agencies in major cities Across America   had a monopoly on public Mobility but that all  changed into 2010s with the Advent of uber and   Lyft and other private sector companies coming  in saying you know what we want a piece of the   action so a guy named Nat Ford who was president  of the American public transportation Association   at that time recognized that probably five or six  years ago now and uh and suggested that we make   a change and that the public transit industry he  runs Jacksonville Transit now and is again still   doing Cutting Edge research on autonomous vehicles  I visited his test and learn facility there but   he suggested we make a change in the role that  Transit agencies play from the transit provider   to the Mobility aggregator and that public transit  agencies should aggregate uh under their umbrella   so to speak um all of the Mobility Services in  a city public or private sector scooters bikes   um you know all the work that goes on there and  I we've we've slowly made that change so your   initial question was how have things changed in  the over 30 years you've been involved in the   industry that's one of the biggest changes for an  industry uh that we have definitely changed our   role I remember being at MTA and I remember Uber  reached out to me and I've already told them the   story I just told the head of uber Transit last  week when you and I were at um commotion commotion   yeah yeah I totally I told uh Dimitri vanzag off  the story who's one of the head dudes there uh I   said dude I don't know if you know this but you  know when Uber came to me when I had the MTA it   was like our way or the highway with Uber and  I I couldn't I couldn't do a deal with them but   it's totally changed now they have changed their  approach to cities and cities have changed our   approach and we've said we want to embrace uh  all of the mobility options in the city and I   really think that's the proper role of an agency  uh to not allow the private sector to take the   lead yeah uh which has a you know a profit uh  mentality but because we have the motivation of   helping people uh and that is to me where uh you  know Stephen Covey seven habits of highly effect   people begin with the end in mind what is our  end our end purpose in transit is not to make   a profit we are not a business our end purpose  in my mind is to provide safe efficient reliable   Mobility with world-class customer service so  that we can provide access to all of life's   opportunities to as many people as possible that  is our recent day atra and it's even been more   solidified through the covet pandemic when people  realize that you know hey we're not only really   about commuters going to the tall shiny buildings  and downtowns anymore it's an important part but   we can't make that the number one goal it needs to  be about more than that so those are some changes   I've seen thank you for sharing you you put the  history of so many decades in in just five minutes   which is good in fact when I was in Seattle I  know I discovered that Seattle used to have a   light rail system 100 Year back they used to have  street car yeah and then they rip pot and now they   are constructing again but a lot of people don't  know about the history that the the many U.S city  

used to have a good streetcar and light rail  system and it went out over the period of time   because these agencies were profit making couldn't  make profit and then they went bankrupt and and   rightly rightly mentioned you know now the role of  public classes and agencies not to just run buses   and run it's it's how to offer Mobility the people  because people are not just looking to take a bus   ride your end goal is go from point A to point B  so if you can't fulfill that with public transit   people will not come back and in fact I I want to  follow up on this question because you share some   interesting fact and you rightly mentioned that  the ridership start declining in North America   actually in it started in 2014 the highest number  of uh the journey happened in the US was in 2014   when 10.7 billion people or Journeys won't happen  but what happened after that the people start   taking cards and some other mode like uber ride  hailing companies start emerging and then the   pandemic hit everything went to zero and now  it start building up now what do you think is   the biggest reason for drop in ridership is it's  the customer care service is it the service it's   a other option available and how do you think you  know because now the biggest challenge for Transit   Agency is to bring back writers and I'm pretty  sure this is the discussion you must be having   with all the transit leader so how they can use  technology or marketing or incentive or loyalty   to bring back Crider especially in U.S because our  ridership is still not crossed 70 80 percent yeah   so let's start with um the contacts which you set  up for us which is great um there was a decline   in ridership uh across the U.S and Canada and  some Western uh European countries not everyone   experienced that South America Africa some place  in Asia was were not experiencing a decline in   ridership uh where public transportation really  is seen as a primary mode of Mobility here in   the U.S not so much right in the U.S we are  a car-centric society and a lot of that has  

to do with the distances that are necessary to  travel in your life if you live outside of a city   um you know you you largely can't get around  without a car where I live I live out in the   country you know there is no transit to my house  there's no mobility and so I wouldn't be able to   ride if I wanted to I have to you know I'll go  to um a light rail station or a metro station   in DC and hop on you know Park and then hop on  the Metro but so we start from a different place   I think than other countries are because it's our  countries never except for those golden few years   right that you mentioned when everybody was riding  Transit but even then it was just in the cities so   I think that's uh that's important to take note  of is that we we have not traditionally been uh   we have not traditionally been a Transit oriented  Society we've been a current oriented Society but   I remember 2015 or 16 all the CEOs uh got together  at a conference down in Florida and the the topic   you know that everybody's hair was on fire about  was you know ridership is declining what are we   going to do you know the uh the politicians who  fund us they are saying to us why should I give   you more money next year when you're going to be  serving less people and so there was a big concern   and to be honest with you Tom Lambert the CEO of  Houston Metro came up with a solution uh and it   is just what you mentioned a minute ago is that  so many cities had these Old Trolley systems and   the bus systems just like in Baltimore were laid  out on basically the same routes that the trolley   systems were and uh and most of the routes went  to the downtown central business districts yeah   give an example in Baltimore where I was CEO in  2015-16 when we did an analysis 2 thirds of our   routes went to the central business district where  there were 140 000 jobs at the time but there was   over 250 000 jobs in the outer skirts outside  the city and we had never really comprehensively   adjusted our routes to meet the needs of today's  customers so I think Tom figured that out and Tom   comes from a law enforcement background you know  he's chief of police they still call him Chief but   uh he's the head of uh you know the Metro System  there and I don't know if you saw but they just   did some amazing Financial things smart paying off  debt Etc so anyway um uh I went and visited him in   2016 with eight of my staff to say what have  you done because they they worked with it you   know with some outside Consultants Etc and they  were able to make some changes to their routes   overnight and we did the same thing we followed  their model we came back with 10 lessons we did   something called Baltimore link after a two-year  study that had done been done by my predecessor uh   on the better bus Network or something like that  and uh anyway we changed the routes overnight and   so did a lot of other cities so in 2017 uh Seven  Cities did it Vegas Vancouver and they all saw   an increase in ridership at 18 it was others  nights and then in 19 is when I don't know if   you remember but we said ah for the first time  you know in a long time Transit ridership this   year including New York City is more than it was  last year and then of course the pandemic hit so   I think we need to um you know take a lesson  from uh the commercial sector which is if they   aren't buying it let's not sell it and so so for  instance the commuter buses the commuter trains   that are all going to downtown heavy am heavy  PM Peak they are still decimated ridership is   under 50 to 60 percent and most of those commuter  services so what are we doing still running heavy   Am Pm Peaks let's spread it out let's uh let's  you know Market it as a regional rail let's incur   and some people are doing this and let's encourage  people to ride during the day the rail downtown to   see the museums families invite families uh moms  make them feel you know welcome on the vehicles at   nights and weekends some people you know like up  in your neck of the woods Jasper in Toronto uh my   buddy Phil verster is doing that with GO train and  go bus he told me that a couple years ago we're   adjusting what we're doing he's also doing other  cool things you know he did this even before the   pandemic what what basically um put into customer  experience first so like I don't know if you you   probably know all this but you know they're doing  things like they have a deal with a big grocery   store up there where you can buy your groceries  online when you're at work and when you get home   they're in a refrigerated Locker at the station  those kind of customer experience things that   I I when I've traveled on Rocky Mountaineer you  know this excursion train out of Denver recently   all the way that they serve their customers  and put their customers first and I'm telling   you there's a dearth of customer service now  post pandemic there's not enough employees in   a lot of places and customer service has really  suffered uh I called the recent a major store   one of the biggest stores in America uh on their  phone number and they just like last month and   they said we're not answering the phone anymore  you need to go online and go to our frequently   asked questions I was like are you kidding me  so um so anyway we need that we need you know   I was in London a few weeks ago and I was just  amazed at the level of customer service that   tfl has and the rail service has where they have  people actual people standing out there saying oh   over here this is where you go to get to here this  is where you go to you know friendly faces focused   on you know you as a passenger I was like wow this  is good so I think those are some things we can do   obviously all the technology you know to make  sure people know where their vehicle is at all   times and they can you know check it out on their  phone and all that kind of stuff's important doing   micro Mobility you know doing electric uh all  the things that that are pretty obvious I think   but those are some other things I think focus on  where the customers want to go today make sure we   give them good customer service make sure they  feel safe on board um there's been a concern in   major cities across the U.S lately that you know  New York especially and I talked to the general   manager about this recently you know what are  we doing to improve this and not just the actual   safety but the perception of safe perception  there right so people feel safe I remember uh   in Baltimore we won the APTA Gold Award for safety  in 2016 for something called our Zeus program Zone   enforced something something they stood for  and I remember our chief of police he was a   great guy he he went out of his way to make sure  that there was the perception of safety at our   stations and there was uniformed uh personnel  there there was vehicles with there was a lot   of light so that people felt safe and could see  where they were going and and uh and you know the   two years I was there we had no rapes no murders  no shootings I know that's like a low bar but but   um but we we had one of the best uh safety  records actually of among the top 12 systems   we were ranked as having the lowest number part  one crimes on her system during the two years I   was there in America uh and it was largely due  to this perception and the actuality of a good   response system we even had dude it was amazing  they had even back then this was seven eight   years ago they had like it wasn't quite artificial  intelligence but in our train and subway stations   they had camera systems that would be if you set  your briefcase down and you sat there for too long   the camera would zoom in on it and then they would  see it at the operations Control Center and they   would send a police officer there to find out  what in the world's going on so and now they've   got you know stuff's even way beyond that now oh  yeah yeah now there is so much technology but I   I really love your point about the safety and  putting customer first and that's what we are   missing right now because sometimes we think too  much about technology and tools and other things   and what we forgot is like what customers need  they just need a safe ride going point to point   A to point B quicker and faster way they don't  need anything else they're just looking so you   need to put customer first and you need to adopt  technology just to support customer experience   not not to just have a fancy tool and app because  sometimes I feel we are so fascinated about this   technology thing that we just want to have more  and more app for everything but nobody has time   to do this you know people just want to have a  safe ride in the in the transition now thanks for   sharing that Paul and congratulations what you did  at MTA uh where you land I mean I I remember those   Awards I read that that you got those award  because of the system was so successful now   it was a dream there yeah now one of the big  thing happened with the pandemic is uh there was a   there was a focus back on public transit because  during the pandemic during the covet time the   front line worker were using the public transit  so the government said okay we need to fund the   system and the the federal government in the  U.S they passed this bipartisan infrastructure   law giving 108 billion to support public  transportation program including 91 billion   in in guaranteed funding now you are speaking  with many Transit leaders I'm pretty sure you   are traveling every week you are speaking them  how do you see these agencies that using funding   to help to transform the public transport sector  because this funding is not unlimited I mean this   will eventually go away so how they can use  this funding to be more Innovative and more   creative and make public transition system better  yeah I do talk to um our Executives uh around the   US and the world on a regular basis every week  and I'm hearing great uses of those funds some   of them were using them to do pilot programs  yeah they use some of the money to do what   they normally wouldn't have this extra money  and so they used it for instance in Las Vegas   um MJ Maynard uh who heads up the RTC there  used it to fund some Mobility micro Mobility   pilots in transit deserts which I thought was a  brilliant idea right see uh you know where the   there's not enough traffic passenger traffic to  justify a 40-foot bus but there are people with   Mobility needs and micro Mobility doesn't always  have to be more expensive than fixed route in   some ways it may actually be less expensive um  if you're if you're subcontracting it out or   you know there's ways you can do it where it's  not that expensive so she was using it for that   other people used the money and some new money  that's coming in now from the federal government   through the infrastructure act uh to fund uh you  know zero emission Vehicles we're doubling the   size of the fleet and people are maybe surprised  but as of a few months ago we only had a little   over a thousand electric vehicles on the on the  road in America electric buses uh and so there's   enough money in this new act to double that  size but also people are starting to look at   um other alternative fuels such as hydrogen and  Jasper I'm very encouraged and enthused about our   approach to hydrogen my friend John russant who  heads up commotion was actually just in Morocco   right after our event uh headlining and event  there on on hydrogen and you know they have it   now I've talked to the guys there who said you  know we've got Vehicles now that actually create   the hydrogen on the vehicle um you know and so you  know it's not the Hindenburg here we're talking   about folks people are always worried when they  hear hydrogen they're worried they're worried   about something that happened 100 years ago with  the uh a dirigible you know exploding it's not   that's not what's happening uh it's very it's they  have all kinds of new safety protocols Etc uh but   it is up and coming so those are some of the kind  of the new techniques and new technology uh and   new approaches to Mobility that cities and Transit  agencies have utilized some of this new funding to   Pilot out and I think it's a it's a very good use  of that in my opinion no great thanks for sharing   that and and I agree with you hydrogen it's it's  developing very fast in fact uitp is doing a   couple of project in you for the demonstration  of uh hydrogen and a lot of people don't know   I mean I was telling people that sometimes like  we also need to look what China is doing in this   area and right now China is targeting all the  transit agencies that their 30 Fleet should be   hydrogen so really I didn't know that yeah so now  after the electric now they are telling all the   agencies which are procuring electric buses they  are saying your Fleet should be 30 feet should be   hydration so it means they are also going bullish  and aggressive on hydrogen technology so it's a   right opportunity for us to look at right now  yeah I think we have to make sure that we have   um I would call an all of the above approach is  what I'm hearing I I've I talked to a half dozen   CEOs in the last three months they've all told me  Paul we're not going to go all-electric it's an   important it's the most advanced technology but we  want to look at hydrogen we want to look at CNG uh   and maybe even keep clean some clean diesel in our  Fleet to make sure that you know if the grid goes   down if there's a hurricane or a natural disaster  or you know what just happened in North Carolina   this week where the grid went down for you know we  don't want our vehicles to be dead after running   them for one day and you know we have to just be  realist about this we we cannot have uh public   transit vehicles that can't be used because we put  all of our eggs in one basket you know that's my   opinion I'm not speaking for you know my employer  or anybody else that's my personal opinion based   on conversations I've had with number of leaders  in our industry uh I'm all in on electric believe   me I'm all in I love what they're doing but  I think we right now that there's a push to   diversify yeah and I think hydrogen is was one  that's being proven it's still way behind on the   technology side of where we're at necessarily on  electric but I think I think in all of the above   approach and putting some investment I even  was happy to see some money was set aside in   the new federal law to make sure that some of it  could be used for hydrogen research yeah yeah no   I I actually I fully agree with your approach of  having all of the above because you need to have   different technology and you need to be ready for  all kind of emergencies like there was how you can   happen in in Florida uh last couple of months back  so yeah if you have all electric what will you do   your buses are standing and you say we cannot  chat yeah I just read an article this morning   that uh Bill Gates has some company that um is uh  you know turning your clean diesel into biodiesel   which produces even less emissions overall than  electric does it said that was an axios by the   way if anybody wants to look that up okay so I did  a little I read the whole article and made a note   of it that you know that's something it you know  so as Technologies developed there could be more   than one potential solution for our going forward  I think we definitely all agree that part of the   role of public transportation has changed and part  of our role now is what I would call Environmental   stewardship it's a overarching goal we need you  know public transit's always been cleaner than   cars I mean even when it was a dirty belching  bus a dirty diesel you still took 100 cars off   the road for every bus and so uh the overall you  know impact has always been better but there's   so many new cool Technologies now and the battery  electric is getting better and better and better   where you need just a little trickle of power and  you can run for you know 500 miles or whatever so   it's uh it's that's getting there too yeah in  fact I know one starter which is based out of   uh Calgary Alberta so they are actually converting  ethanol to hydrogen so they have a station which   is using picking bethanol and then process  it and they can produce hydrogen on the site   so you don't need to even transport so so a lot  of innovation happening and in fact that's what   I want to talk to you now about Innovation  you a lot of people know you are an author   too you have already wrote four books now you are  coming out with your fifth book which is amazing   and your second book was about future of public  transportation and and you talk about all the   future technology you publish that book in right  just bang on the pandemics yeah you know March of   2020 man I had on my wall behind me at the time  like a concert poster you'd see on the back of   a t-shirt of literally a global tour a sponsored  Global tour I was going to visit four continents   I think it was and do all these book signings  I got to the first one in my own neighborhood   which you know it was nice we had like 50 people  there of our book signing and then all the rest   of them got canceled but you know what Jasper I  ended up being able to touch more people's lives   yeah virtually over zoom and teams and all this  stuff around the world you know thousands and   thousands of people uh doing kind of virtual uh  events around the world over the next 18 months   so you know there's always a silver lining oh  there is always a silver line no I remember in   fact you were supposed to come at I.T trans and  that I was supposed to fly and day before the   flight they even got postponed because of pandemic  and all and in the book you talk about a lot of   future technology about autonomous vehicle shuttle  hyperloop high speed train Mobility as a service   now we are in like December 2022 now two years two  and a half year uh after you have wrote that book   how do you see these Technologies are  shaping up now like if if you look back   and see okay you make some prediction in  that book how do you see those predictions   are happening and which technology you feel is  progressing and which are losing stream because   Innovation doesn't mean 100 guarantee some will  grow some will vanish but that's part of that's   fun of innovation yeah well good so again this  is just my opinions I'm speaking for myself here   um but I I see that um one type of technology is  really taken off and that is faring technology   um ticketing fairing whatever you want to call  it where we're moving away from cash and we're   moving away from cash boxes I believe fare boxes  and moving more toward validators and multiple   types of payment options which you know can be  as simple as um uh you know a multi-use card run   by the agency like the Oyster card or what Shashi  Verma got us going for at tfl a few years ago and   now is swept across the world which is contactless  payment using your credit card which is awesome   because that's a multi-use system as well you  just tap and go uh to you know wearables to all   kinds of media which you can use I mean they've  even got it now where you know obviously it can   come off your phone write Apple pay Google  pay and some places are even now doing it all   facial recognition yeah contact they have your  contacts in the system and then it comes out of   your account so I think fairing has really done  uh gone up let's let's use the you know thumbs up   for fair thumbs up uh thumbs down for Mobility  as a service I would say Mobility as a service   is is where all the mobility options in the city  go on one app and you plan pay for and schedule   your trips all behind the scenes and we really had  high hopes for it a lot of Transit agencies have   uh pursued it it started in Finland by a company  there that I understand just went bankrupt this   last year or went out of business at least I won't  say the name of it uh but I just found that out in   the last month that I'm assuming it's true the  person who told me had some credibility but it   hasn't really taken off like I thought it would  um and um it could be because of the pandemic you   know where people weren't riding as much right so  that's probably why it didn't take off as much I   still have hope for it I think it's a cool thing  I spoke a lot about it did a lot of research on it   but it hasn't really taken off when you take when  you look at the cities who have put it in and you   look at how many people are actually using it not  very many low percentage points in the places I've   been now I'm sure you're going to hear from  five people oh it's being used in my city a   lot well maybe so but generally I'm talking about  industry Trends uh down I would say is hyperloop   um hyperloop had a lot of promise you know I made  friends with a lot of people in hyperloop right   so now you had Elon Musk and you had Sir Richard  Branson heading up these two big companies and uh   I think I I actually had a long conversation uh  again I think a commotion with somebody who was   explaining to me why that happened uh maybe it was  even you I don't know but somebody was telling me   you know how that basically you know the pandemic  killed a lot of that stuff yeah a lot of the   research a lot of the money that was behind it the  private Equity Funds dried up Etc so I don't see   that taking off as much but I do see thumbs up  uh for high-speed trains yeah people in the U.S   um you know we've seen uh and I've done a lot  of focus on it down in Florida there's a private   company called brightline trains that does higher  speed it's not what we would traditionally call   you know like high speed like like Europe in China  has in Japan where they're going 300 miles per   hour but it's you know it's faster than normal and  it's inner city which is what the promise was for   hyperloop right um or maglev uh high-speed trains  was you know you could see that like when I was in   Baltimore we were doing a study after 26 million  or something like that they're still studying it   by the way and I've been out of there for over  five years but you know a maglev train between   Baltimore and Washington would be a 15-minute  ride and then eventually go up to New York and   maybe Boston which is probably a good Corridor to  do it just like the one in California but again   it's taking so long the environmental reviews  and and the funding uh you know busted budgets   um so I would say higher speed private trains  up um the hyperloop maglev still you know it's   it's all over China and Japan I don't know why  we can't get it we get it here I wish we could   I wish I could you know put my thumb on the scale  and make it go but uh it just doesn't seem to have   taken off like as much as I was hoping it would  so um and in autonomous vehicles I would give   them sideways some thumb two thumbs up two thumbs  down and AV sideways we haven't really figured out   in my opinion where to use them effectively yet  and the technology hasn't really come around like   we thought it was going to um you know it works  well if you know if it's on a predetermined route   etc etc I mean you know like I said I was  just down in Florida with not forged people   and riding riding on the autonomous vehicles  the latest greatest technology and um still   doesn't do what I wanted to do you know which  is uh you know put it put a push a button on my   phone and I'm not on some predetermined path and  an autonomous vehicle comes to my house picks me   up and then flies me like Jetsons where I want to  go maybe we'll get there eventually but vitals uh   we might as well just mention them I think they're  on the uptake uh we just saw in New York City the   announcement that one of the major airlines had  you know basically said yeah we're making this   happen I mean the technology is basically  like an electric helicopter in some ways or   um you know like those Marines vehicles uh  the Marines have vehicles called Ospreys   um very similar and so the technology I think  is going to be there especially for package   delivery and things like that like it already  is but eventually within the next couple years I   think we'll start seeing people as well now you  know I was just in Dubai earlier this year and   um the cruise people from GM are working with my  buddy over there who runs the Dubai transit system   and they're mapping the whole city out this year  and he told me by the end of next year Paul we're   going to have autonomous cars not necessarily  buses but cars working in the city and it will   be just what you want it won't fly but it'll you  know it'll pick you up and take so you know I   think it slowed down during the pandemic but that  I think is coming back that's why I give it equal   it's not down it's just it hasn't gone as fast  as far as I wanted it to so there's my there's   comfort's take on technology no it's it's such a  great summary and I I fully agree with you some of   those thumbs up and thumbs down and for for high  speed pain I I sometimes wonder you know why we   can't build what happened in China like if you see  in China last 20 years they have now more than 18   000 kilometers of high-speed train Network like  Shanghai is connected with Beijing so people   take overnight train and go rather than taking  flight uh and then I don't get real I think a lot   of it is environmental reviews and all the extra  layers of of things that you know some governments   just come in tell everybody get out of the way  we're putting this there and other governments   uh you know take their time go through all their  proper environmental reviews take make sure that   people have input a lot of people don't like it  coming through their backyard I know that was a   concern of ours and building the purple line in  Washington DC people were suing and the courts   you know took a year or two off the so we have  a lot of extra layers of review in the western   world that maybe some governments don't have to  uh go through to go through yeah especially in   in some of these countries uh which we talk  about in fact they are are studying about a   high speed train between Toronto and Montreal  for last 30 years 30 years you know they have   been like four or five feasibility study Because  by the time the new government come and say okay   we want to do it they say oh the feasibility  report is old and everything has changed so   now what do you do you do the new feasibility  report and nothing happened after that so I wish   we can move a little faster and do something uh  something better now you gave a lot of prediction   for the mobility sector and I I was recently  listening to one of your podcasts which was   about public transit in 2023 for one year but I  want now you to make some prediction for public   transit in 2030. so how we will see public  transit will change in next seven eight years   and how should Transit leader be ready for this  new change because most of the time we feel that   people are not ready to to accept this change and  they feel things will not change uh that quickly   all right I've got three predictions okay  all right for 2030. these are mine again  

I'm speaking for myself not for anybody else um  I think Transit will become more individualized   Mobility will become more individualized micro  Transit autonomous vehicles um will be tuned to   you and your needs uh it really is the way it has  to go right I mean they're never going to replace   you know the subway Etc but I think that's  the next phase of our of our uh Evolution as   an industry we already see it it's just taking  it to the next level so individualized Transit   um let's see the guys from transtab used  to say it's Pace personalized autonomous   um something to say it's kind of connected  electricity yeah yeah yeah yeah and so I I   generally agree with that I think that was a great  acronym uh so that's one two I think we're going   to take to the air now you know people can  call these Alexis Lanes you know people are   always upset about when you add in a pay Lane  on a Beltway around a city and you're like well   you know that's the Lexus Lanes it's only for the  rich people but you know what I get all that but   it does take Vehicles off of the lanes that I'm in  because I'm not going to pay 30 bucks to ride that   green line lane but I am going to stay in here  and if you can take some cars off and make my   life easier I don't mind so the air lanes are the  same way right we're not all going to afford that   but I predict by 2030. for 49 you'll be able  to get a vehicle uh and that depends on where   inflation goes but let's say uh in 2022 dollars I  was sayin

2022-12-22 20:22

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