CIM Podcast LIVE 2023 - Episode 81: The evolution of technology and its impact on marketing

foreign marketing podcast the contents and Views expressed by individuals in the cim marketing podcast are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the companies they work for we hope you enjoy the episode hello everybody Welcome to the second as James said live cim marketing podcast and the 81st cim podcast is started so at the end of our fourth season so this is our season uh closer we're back in September for season number five quite remarkable and Ali and I she sat over there started it all those years ago that's been going strong quick advert from me we have now had a hundred and thirty thousand downloads if you give me 800 so just short of 130 000 downloads and we have 5 000 regular subscribers on Spotify alone a similar number on Apple podcasts and around all of the platforms we go out on around 10 000 subscribers so it's been a really enjoyable project um exciting we've had some fantastic guests and none better than the two gentlemen we are joined by today Mr Ryan miles who is from one of the biggest names in business Microsoft he's director of international integrated marketing there how are you sir I'm good thank you for having me again great to have you great to have you on the show and Mr Vincent cider who is CEO of get inference and also a course director at cim here specializing in artificial intelligence which as James saying is what we're going to be focusing on today it's something that I think everybody is interested in so we'll find out more about from the guys who know um before I started a lady asked me if I get nervous about podcasts or do them so frequently now or don't get nervous as such but I do get a little bit nervous about one thing when we've got a live podcast is that when we get to the Q a at the end is I want to see a Forest of Hands or people be be enthusiastic to be the first person to ask a question we're going to get 20 minutes at the end so all of those things have been bugging you or grating you or eating away your bad AI that you want to know try and get your question in we'll try and get as many in as we can we're going to move 20 minutes at the end of the show to take QA q a from the audience but before we get there we've got 40 minutes of discussion with these two gentlemen and we're going to start with you Ryan about if you could take us through some of the emerging technologies that you're starting to see specifically or mainly in the marketing and business landscape from AI yeah I mean it's definitely a transformational moment there's been lots of transformation in recent history we've had the cloud and before that the web the internet and now ai is really on the level of that it's and we're at the beginning of the journey and I think probably the way that most people have experienced natural natural language models and AI is through chat chat GP T is something I think most in the room will be familiar with and hopefully listening to the podcast um at Microsoft we have a partnership with open Ai and we have chat GPT enabled uh bing for search and I think that's one of the key places we're seeing this really play out is as as consumers as marketers as professionals as Learners interacting with this new tool we've seen data that of the 10 billion searches that that we see uh every day after half of them go unanswered we don't get the actual outcome we're looking for and that was because search evolved pretty naturally Google did some really impressive things from the get-go but we've evolved and chat Nai is just bringing this new platform that really kind of gets conversational goes deeper looks beyond single sources of information I think that's one area we're really excited about and and is evolving quickly for how we use it day to day that's an interesting figure isn't it that 50 figure because you sort of think that sort of search solved everything you know if you killed the encyclopedia it killed it killed sort of asking your uncle or a clever Aunt what the answer of something was but it hasn't killed everything it got us half the way there yeah um there's a still a gap of 50 and that's where the new technologies are coming in you're saying to help fill that absolutely I think that's the most pervasive but then it gets much more specific you know we're seeing the power of language text image text to video so that idea of I don't think we necessarily thought of AI as being the place where creativity comes to life that it augments it but that's definitely been a hot button area for the fast development of above uh we've got Dali for again from the open AI team in our own work at Microsoft you've got so many different platforms now that you can do just absolutely stunning things and there's different comfortability around the world in different countries in different markets with what that kind of synthetic media uh how how we feel about that when we're looking at someone that maybe never existed is totally generated looking back at us through the screen so I think that's another really interesting touch point so important to marketers because you know the core of our job is creativity to build Brands and to solve customer problems so what what brought you in to it um Vincent was it the creativity size or was it they're helping people or something else it can be for that as a kids I got fascinated by how the brand works and as an adult the proxy to understand how the brand works is to understand how we understand AI so I got into that from a neuroscience point of view but then became hooked with AI because of piece of work I did at the BBC to understand audiences a bit better and at that point become acquainted with techniques like machine learning and clustering that give you a way to have a data driven opinion on what your audience looks like and in the world of Top Gear which is especially important because you can't have an opinion on Top Gear audiences with the brand it has to be data driven so AI became almost like a lifesaver because I could have a conversation and and prove my points with data that's how I become I became hooked with AI and then realized that it it goes Way Beyond clustering it goes into predictive modeling where you can use AI to predict the behaviors of audiences going forward whether it's either they're going to click or they're going to watch are they going to buy how much are they going to generate so as a CMO this insights is fantastic it's like the only ground of marketing really it's almost an entirely positive Testament that you give you you you don't see any you see major opportunities from it from Little threats as other people see absolutely from it rightly rightly or wrongly but you've seen it from a young age as an opportunity is an exciting technology which augments and it actually sustains what you were trying to say exactly you're able to you're able to cite the data and get the evolution across do you think of this one more for you Ryan but for both of you to some degree will it ever get faster and grow so much that it actually does justify some of the fears around it that it gets out of control I mean it is it's fast moving and it's transformative in so many ways as I was mentioning before it's right to approach it with care and think carefully and I think as much as the technology being a risk it's it's how we deploy it as well at Microsoft we're very conscious of responsible AI uh and that's not just how it's built how it's trained but how it's deployed and how it's implemented and you know we definitely perceive AI as a big opportunity uh done the right way really as a co-pilot this is not a a a tool that runs away with you but something that helps you get more efficient and more effective and spend more time doing those those uh creative difficult thinking jobs and and away from some of the mundanity of work and life you're laughing the evidence is that because you agreed or you just no because I'm just preempting the next a point which is we do have a product called Pilots no I I think The Branding is spot on I think [Music] I think what it conveys as a message of what AI is about is also spot on so yeah that's why I'm spotting so a co-pilot that augments and helps us some Silly evidence from your testimonies earliest is that is indeed the case and a lot of people who've used art AI tentatively or in a little way so far marketers and otherwise are finding that it is helping them and it is saving saving them time not all of it has worked though has it there has been some blunders there's been some missteps there have been technologies that have been touted as the next best thing and have turned out to be the thing of the sort any particular examples you can think of in 2006 I joined BT and I learned that BT in 2000 they had a virtual world proposition believe it or not like a virtual world virtual world yeah yeah like second life right before second life and then came second life and we spent a year to find out how to invest into virtual world just to realize a year later that this was just not catching up with the audience right and then you had the Google Glasses in 2014 that became a theme for a year and see people realize that if you were to wear your Google Glasses in pubs you would get attacked by yeah wants you to be recording them right uh and then you have the Oculus Rifts which uh became a fantastic tool if you had the right PC the right cables and the right uh applications uh but also uh Fair flats and and was revised with the quest too um so I think as soon as you touch you know this this concept of virtual reality Virtual Worlds and yet said that uh combined with this uh this concept then you were in dodgy territories and so far history hasn't proved that there is a market for this so uh very very uh interested to see development of meta in that space and and how they're going to Pivot from from now on but yeah I mean some things is it easy to predict what's going to be a flop and what's going to work in this place I mean I looked at the Vision Pro from Apple got Apple everything as you can see sorry right um that to me looks like a an expensive flop in the making isn't it yeah I mean try and pick this one how many times have we thought it's the moment of of VR and headsets definitely as a marketeer personally there's going to be a place for it for sure the power of gaming when these things catch up and the Technologies there um it will certainly become a very interesting proposition I think there's some very interesting discussion as well about virtual reality versus augmented reality versus wearables and what it means to interact with the real world which is very mainstream everyone is comfortable with that that's how we experience things versus this other layer and another layer that potentially blocks it or a layer that lets you see through it and and builds on it and we do a lot um through through hololens uh where we see really fantastic commercial applications um where an ability where if you have something that's incredibly difficult or expensive to train someone on in the medical industry yeah practicing on bodies on on an operating table it's pretty dangerous but using things like augmented reality can really create opportunities there to do things at scale that otherwise aren't possible other things that have tended to succeed so far the things that have allowed you to see more of the world and as it is rather than create new worlds exactly yes that seems to me that you know if we're treating the software as you say an alternative world you mentioned the BT alternative word on the second life versus things that have able you to dive deeper in the world is around us for practical and pleasure reasons you mentioned the medical medical industry and I think that that sort of takes us on to what marketers can use it for isn't it we're not as marketers wanting to create new worlds and fictions for our audience we are trying to create for our audience um a better clear understanding of the world again the world we're in and the products we're trying to sell or promote I think definitely I I also see the the interest in the realm of of virtual worlds and I think again AI is going to help this move along at a rapid rate because of the capability of it to generate these worlds if you're talking virtual it's severely limited by your ability to create yeah you've got to look at the success of Roblox and those kind of things uh incredibly powerful we've just haven't changed the mode in which we experience it and that's right on the on the doorstep we're working with oculus and meta on things like better virtual meetings you know in a hybrid workspace it can be pretty isolating looking through a screen but having some kind of other realm that makes you feel at least semi there and interacting and turn around in a room that's going to be immensely powerful and important maybe to mental health as it relates to work all kinds of things so I don't think it's one or the other it's applications and as different Technologies catch up we'll have different use cases for each do you think we've become more open to it you know if chap GPT or dally were sort of launched five years ago do you think the response would have been as open to the idea as it is now probably would have been a little bit more yeah it's over time things you know build up I mean it's it's not that long ago everyone was talking about the cloud and they're like what is the cloud what do you mean by things are here there nowhere and everywhere all the same time uh and I don't know how many people truly understand the technical aspects even of the cloud today but they're very comfortable with the idea you know whether you have a OneDrive or a Google drive or a good old Dropbox and access on all devices and we become a very Multi-Device Society particularly in the Western World um and I think those things build up to this and now it's not a huge jump the idea that you can and search you know did hey we send it in we get results and we explore now you get all the results and someone figures them out for you and tells you kind of the synopsis of that so it's been a progression if you skip any of those steps I think of course it's a bit more jarring do you think there are some technologies that's been around for a while that we just weren't using we're now starting to be become more accepted we're starting to accept more we become more conditioned to them we're getting the most out of technologies that have been around for a while I think AI is a good example because it's been I mean AI started in 1943 right 1943 with the first computer yeah neural networks were defined in 1944 or 1945. in fact they were used in fact that technology the machine learning technology was used to spot enemy ships in the channels clustering right and entering of course as you as you know was instrumental in this but I think AI is a good example because until this moment of generative AI which happened in November um people want to re-engaging with AI suddenly you add a chat user experience to it and suddenly you have 100 million people hooked in two weeks and then one billion point six people active in six months right yeah so yes there is there is a route that proved the contrary which is which is AI and I think it's down to the ux of of yeah of visual experience so if we can use it we can use it as you say it is a hesitate users craze it seems almost trivialize it but chat g3p has a lot of it was a lot of leisure users jumping on it and creating this exponential growth curve so suddenly everybody or nearly everybody it seems is using it or is using it for something for fun or otherwise but it does beg the question if we can get that sort of exponential acceptance of a new technology very quickly for our Leisure purposes and our homes in our personal lives we can probably see similar adoption rates in our business lives what do you think are going to be the key technologies that have the biggest impact on us in the next two or three years as marketers I I have to pitch for it because it's going to be it's going to be a it's going to be the dominant tool for the next 10 to 15 years we've just crossed the threshold regenerative Ai and people start to realize the impacts that AI can have in in the marketing space and it's going to get exponential from there it's going to get exponential in terms of what AI can do in terms of what AI can automate in terms of what AI can actually collaborate with other AI to automates we are going into a world where AI will operate in swarms and will be specialized to do marketing tasks that will not even need our inputs and I'm going to use the same keyword of copilot right if you ask people uh you're gonna blow that plane and you have two Choice First Choice is you pay less but you have no pilots and second choice you pay a bit more but you have a pilot which Which choice you're going to make we need responsibility right we at the end of the day we need responsibility for the actions and also we need to guide the system because even though it looks intelligent it's still stupid it still predicts an outcome it doesn't think it doesn't really reason although it's going to be tracked in the next five years but the human element is still important to control to to act responsibly with LED output and to guide the system where we want the stem to go right so in that sense our job I'm not I if if anything we are going to be needing more of humans than than before most likely more humans rather than feelings yeah more marketers I agree with a lot of interest and said that it's it it's it's a tool to be used as part of our wider tool kit I think you still need to be anything we've learned in large language models have created a very accessible way to gain access AI has been around for ages as we noted and in very much in our everyday lives particularly in marketing the algorithms decide what we see and when we see it who gets targeted how we build campaigns all that's been around for a while now that's not new news how we access and interact with it that's what's changed with large language models and you really need to know what to ask how to ask it and then how to guide it once it starts responding to get anything out of it I mean we see a lot anyone who who follows socials or the various influences around AI the idea of prompt Engineers you see these job listings uh very hard for me to prompt a large language model to do great video production if I know nothing about video production no idea what to ask exactly so there will be here molding new skills built onto existing expertises and I think that's you know if we pull this back to to marketing specifically how marketing leaders need to think about this where can I integrate it to cut my costs in half potentially or my time to Market by a factor of 10 and then what do I do with that you know your resources are the same there doesn't the hours in the day don't change goals for growth and your opportunities you can just get far more efficient and you can redeploy that human capability in new and very creative or strategic ways to kind of accelerate your growth in whatever vector or whatever angle you want I think that's that's the exciting part that's how you have to tackle the the opportunity but take a measured approach and there's going to be tools for everything the positive the positive prism to look through is it's a bit like the Industrial Revolution and that it removed a lot of the mundane work the lots of the routine work and allowed people to do more quality work and more value um as a marketer yourself actually at the sort of Vanguard of this stuff have you seen your own role change so you've reduced doing some more mundane routine stuff in in and doing more interesting stuff I love these tools I use new being a lot just for quick research like dipstipping dip sticking on things as you kind of every day you kind of confronted with a conversation or an opportunity that you you're not as formed as you could be so instead of spending potentially a couple of hours searching looking for for different site sources of information nothing kind of happen in a matter of minutes before you walk into a meeting and then that meeting can be infinitely more productive because you're starting on a better knowledge base with the expert you're working with and that can be someone in your team could be a partner a stakeholder I think that's been a really powerful application that's that's a really low hurting like you don't have to put sensitive information in it or anything like that it's just this awesome partner to go in and prepare yourself with we're still uh at the early stages of playing with things like um for us it's been created with dully and image creation and how to build that into our marketing models how do we uh expand our creative capabilities for things like campaigns we're doing a lot of work actually in our tooling for our clients so Predictive Analytics um optimizations in campaigns things like that a lot of what we've been saying in terms of taking time out so you just provided with the recommendations one favorite I I love which is a bit of a Shameless plug I was on holidays recently I came back and uh teams has this new function with AI where it notes anytime your name is mentioned in a meeting that you're included on even if you weren't there and I came back every time my name had appeared at any meeting uh that I'd been invited to that I'd missed that week was there with all the notes the context all that kind of thing infinitely sped up my ramp up back into work because I didn't have to go chase that stuff down and I kind of had it on you I need to go talk so about it because I'm absolutely not touching that or you know hey I need to get onto that I didn't know that was such a big issue so cool little things like that I didn't even know it was there I came back to the office I was like wow this we were talking pre-pod there was a there's a lot of time wasted in business necessarily wasted you could say if there is such a thing as necessary ways in transition those sorts of things when someone's transisting from one place to another they're coming back from holiday they're catching up they attending they're trying to get notes from a meeting to which they weren't unable to attend etc etc etc which is which is glorified admin and what you're saying is this is going to take a lot of that out of our Lives absolutely and so it's a very positive message and yet and yet I still hear a lot of fear and worry from marketers particularly at the junior level that it will take out some of the jobs in the creative Industries it will start to dismantle some opportunities particularly at the lower levels of the industry it is going very moving very quickly so to some degree I can understand those fears is there any truth in it is there anything to be worried about worried about parties through parties parties uh just here um so what's here is and and this is common to all these big major technical shift right from let's say the moment we had the internet to the moment that we are now witnessing AI in reality in our lives um there is actually a group in the US called the pessimist archive group that lists all of this moments in time and and pessimistic groups and they show the the paranoia of the time because of the introduction of this technology and and the document this and and they show they show the impact on on behaviors and so on but long story short um if anything I think it's going to be a golden age for Creative because AI will help you know writers filmmakers video game designer and so on to accelerate their job and to go far beyond what they had in mind originally for people for for the one one band marketer he's going to become a super Jack of all trades you know with the ability to create image and videos with little resources at the level of professional you know um companies so this part is I think is is uh I think now is acknowledged so what what is not true are we going to lose jobs maybe in the short term not in the long term right and I have to discuss about this from a macro level point of view I can't discuss this from an opinion point of view at the micro level point of view you're more productive Therefore your cost of goods or services goes down yeah therefore you can uh innovate with new products and new Services which requires a new task force so the the job you lose on Legacy you create with new product expenses so from a job creation point of view at macro level this is not going to happen right but it's about being agile and and adaptable you know that that part is is is uh is not true the part of inequality let's say um is true and not true it's inequality would be created for companies or or systems that refuse AI so you the world is now on that on the train blocking AI in in different sectors in with regulations or in different companies departments is like shooting yourself in the foods yeah because you can't compete anymore right so the inequality will come because of not using AI the inequality could arise for uh roles that uh you can't really upskill very well BT has made an announcement that they are not going to replace 10 000 roles going forward because they are going to use AI to replace these roles so if I was in these people's shoes I would think of a way to abstain myself and look in different areas than this road because I know they are dudes the part which is true is the part about how AI could arm Society yes it could arm Society but just like using Photoshop to create fake pictures of people on society right just it's easier to do it but AI is also the solution because if you can use AI to fake people and voices and pictures and so on you can also use AI to to find out what's been facts for the forensics yeah for the forensics for instance so I think there is a lot of paranoia I think I think the the real issue is about how bad's actors will use this but AI is the solution for that so it's interesting to pick up on an earlier appointment it's a really interesting testimony but I write for business magazine um Catalyst for a university and a lot of the concentration in a lot of the topics in that magazine is about how leaders and Senior teams move between what they call exploitation and exploration and exploitation is it sounds like a nasty word it's not it's just the core part of your business the serving your regular customers the means that bring in the main revenues and what what tends to happen in most businesses is most leadership teams and most seniors six week people and senior people in the business everyone in the business systems again gets always gets pulled back to the core and the exploration gets less and less unless you're a very big company with huge amounts of resources your explanation is a sort of poor relation what you're saying is with AI that exploration window will open up because there is there is the draw to the core isn't as strong you're taking me back to my MBA strategies for growth lecture right there I remember the principles very well um look businesses oscillate between those good ones will recognize when they have a proposition to exploit and when that competitive Advantage is diminishing and they need to go back to exploration that is what great leadership teams do and see before everyone else does that that requires incredible Vision as a leadership group where they are I think it makes some of that more possible more regularly at lower costs but I think it comes down to as we're saying having great people who know how to use the tools really well I think one really exciting element of AI is how it's going to help and support small businesses or small and medium businesses access the type of outputs that before required huge Capital Investments or professional service costs they just couldn't have then limited their ability to do exploration as a business and we know that smbs are so important to the backbone of the economy for GDP growth for job creation for all these really important things and when we conject Innovation there now ai is not cheap to create or fund I'm sure we've all heard about GPU shortages and the Intensive load places on a particularly a handful of companies that that kind of at the backbone of this infrastructure but for the end users it's incredibly cheap and accessible in its current guys and I think the the thing we haven't touched on so much just yet but is coming in the evolution is data and these unique data sets now the most large language models we're all referencing and using and playing with the moment are big broad Collective ones web scraping and those kind of things many would have heard of if elon's changed to Twitter about some of this stuff as well but as we start taking those largely trained models and then injecting Walled Garden very specific data sets then you're really harnessing the power of where this goes and that becomes very interesting for specific applications in specific contexts in whatever business you are in yeah that's really kind of interesting and probably where we see the next step go in in the not too distant future of how people are applying this particularly in business and marketing as well so in order to occupy that space for instance in order to make make sure as marketers if we accept your analysis which sounds to me like a sound analysis which is a generally positive trend it's going to take a lot of the boring stuff off our hands frankly it's going to take the routine stuff of our hands allows more time space to beat creators in order so you can make sure you're in that space as an Explorer in that space as a Creator or a guider what do you as a marketer need to do in order to make sure you're there and not in the bit that's going to be taken over by AI uh educate yourself because the space is moving so fast it's almost overwhelming educate yourself continuous learning uh is is advice number one and I'm grateful for for the team to have actually released any time with five courses because they're gonna be helpful for the industry um and my personal advice is also to build this is contrary to the uh you know the continent receive because as marketer we're not Engineers right yeah but but having projects at the weekend at an evening to build with AI it's so easy now to build stuff with large model so that's the that's the way to really grasp what this is about you could you could be for example example I built an application to audit my YouTube videos comments and make a decision whether I should reply or not and the reply is actually written by the larger wedge model and the news and and the reasoning for the replace is Spoto AI will not engage in commands which are political for instance I didn't make that choice AI made that choice to build this application took me four hours you understand how to prompt you understand how to manipulate a large model by building so compound this with the learning you do on a weekly basis on a monthly basis and through professional courses like the Sim courses then you have a way forward to really adopt AI in your organization in your career and also understand the right question to ask that's the problem the right tool to use so many That's the Way Forward how quick do you have to be about it do you get yourself educated how sooner soon luckily there is something called chat GPT and soon something may be called co-pilot from Microsoft maybe and these things they level the playing fields I didn't code for 20 years I'm an engineer already but I didn't go right it took me a day to get back up to speed just by asking chargpt to help me code and this is why I could do that stuff in four hours so if you have the wheel you have there is a way and chargpt is your best tutor your best coach so there is no another moment in time where we are leveling the pain Fields there is probably a window of opportunity of two years for people to basically deliver what they want to deliver from marketing program from product point of view before the competition get up to speed and it becomes much more expensive so yeah two two years Ryan you you of course have to be at The Cutting Edge because you work for you work for Microsoft have you made sure that your team are ahead of even that two-year occur I think we're in the I don't know if it's the fortunate or unfortunate position sometimes but you know part of this are our product so as we come to terms with what is in our organization and try and keep Pace with our own engineering or who are developing these things we're kind of our hand is forced uh and it can it's not always easy but it's certainly a long-term benefit of being in that position but very much agree with Vince playing with this stuff and it can do so much more than kind of your thinking your day-to-day so your imagination is the opportunity there build a website just through natural language like pretty cool thing to do to start with but then you have something for it like it can just be a hobby project but that's going to be really useful as you go back into the workplace and then try and do something I think particularly for for those early in career I had a really interesting conversation um with a Founder at the festival of creativity in Khan a couple of weeks ago and he was talking to me what he's doing with his business with thousands of employees totally reorganized it and every pod that he's organized now has an AI Ambassador that role didn't exist like weeks months ago yeah six months and now they're they're operating in these PODS of of various types of experts in their field videographers creatives designers illustrators and helping them use the tools as the conduit the bridge between the tools and their expertise and and kind of upskilling them and and getting the potential out of this tool so I think we keep coming back to this theme that it is a tool and in the hands of the right person with the right skill set is incredibly powerful but you need to merge the new skills of how to use it with the actual expertise of what you're trying to achieve and I think as we talk about what opportunities come up that's that's where to position yourself someone with an expertise and the ability to use you're going to be in a really solid place and I think you'll really quickly build new expertise in new areas because you can teach yourself how to build stuff that you otherwise couldn't without these that that is the exciting part of it when we will it transform education itself there'll be more self-learning more self-teaching there will be roles for course creators course directors well there will be AI tutor for sure right they are going to be kinder more patience they are going to be personalized right yeah they're going to address Vincent then um not a class um personalization I think is the key word here right it's going to be my own custom journey to learn this this what I want to learn uh and and vice versa it's going to help the teachers do better there is a research from The bracknam Young University which I love to um to talk about which demonstrate that um using AI as a panel for surveys is the same thing as using humans AI respond the same way this was just validated by a research from a entropy clothes another large model last week that shows that when you ask um at Global level very important social questions to ai ai pretending to be you know citizen of the UK or France or the US the reply would be the same as the population in Aggregates right so you can use AI to simulate your students just like back to marketing because we haven't really touched about marketing yet just like you can use AI to simulate your audience so you can use AI to test your creative to to predict your character rates to behave just like uh your consumer your customers this is program research right so yes it's going to transform education both sides maybe for us as trainers it's gonna we will become facilitator instead of the collider of contents because the content you will get from charging PT but the facilitator in terms of where to look what tool to use how to use it there is something though that AI won't teach which is how to trust Ai and that's the most important uh topic yeah probably get some questions okay so I'm going to start there then but for me this is the key subject yeah is the trust yeah what about when you're recruiting I mean we're trying to hiring people is the job of anyone who's above the sort of low the lowest level in an organization to hiring people and it's probably the most difficult job the most time consuming job of most people can be quite a painful job are we going to get AI is it confined as the best candidate and that's the lowest ending fruitful AI That's that's where AI will shine right it's already the case we've pinpoint for example space in Jersey I'm from Jersey right now and um so CV screening okay uh the reduction of uh bias discrimination um the skills assessments all of these things will be managed by AI and from the candidate point of view the user experience yesterday I did a review on a tool called AI interview mockup whereby you upload social description uh or you select the templates and the AI trainer will help you practice your interview before the interview and we'll give you grade and so on and it's good feedback so it's going to work both ways it's going to help the candidates optimize the way they pitch and and fulfill a role and it's going to help the recruiter do it faster and hopefully with more accuracy that is if the model that has been used has been training the right way which is another topic right so Ryan if you use this stuff positively if you get ahead of it if you understand it you can get a better job in a bigger industry for a better company you can hire better people you can learn quicker sounds great is anything bad about it um I think it's how it's implemented that's a big question and and the trust in it how do your consumers in whatever industry you feel about using how does how does your team how do those around you your family like Vincent mentioned before like there is going to be resistance for this and and rightfully so you need to counterweight to these arguments it can't all be One Direction and it's we're at the beginning of this like there is going to be lots of missteps and you know we have chat Bots have been around for a while and yet most of them have not done particularly well when put up to a test and there's been learnings in that how many times you let yeah we can go AI into doing certain things if you don't kind of put stops in there and people are clever you put one stop in they find another way and there's people that want to see it fail so I I think it'd be remiss of us to think that that counter arguments are not a a good thing and be absolutely fundamental to the overall Improvement and benefit of it and it just keeps coming back too yeah how we build how we Implement how we use and that whole idea of responsible AI being really important but definitely those who take a a positive mindset towards a good intent I think all of those things you listed and the other thing is create things that don't exist yet like just start from scratch and use it as this tool to explore and walk your imagination and have a something there can help you build it stop chasing minutes when meetings you didn't attend and build something interesting and new I love this idea um again something I heard out of can I thought was a lovely way to speak about it was decoupling the idea of time and output yeah AI just totally separates those two ideas and we've got so much particularly in the creative in the marketing Industries the idea that you charge for time instead of output and if everything gets faster and and more robust and deeper but we have this then it's it's about yeah it should have always been about the output but we lacked a better thing than time and this is going to really disrupt that I think we're going to see a lot of even if it's not that the business specifically that changes the commercial models that will change and and what we value in a relationship across in marketing certainly our supplier relationships how we look towards our agency partners and other partners uh across the ecosystem that's going to be a really interesting moment and I think AI has gone gone from Toy to Tool It's kind of this big coming of age that we've had so uh exciting moment exciting moment indeed right let's take some questions from the audience we've got about we've got about 70 minutes by my watch and we'll take the first question from the audience remember what I said about forests of hands gentlemen here at the front I've got two questions um so we've [Music] we've been entered on with AI in this market Department program like images and content Etc um it doesn't always come back particularly conference content fund unless you pointed at a particular trusted Source it doesn't always come back to spend half much I'm looking at it half the time actually checking it has a lie to me yeah so if you guys I suppose if it'd be massively adopted and there's people understand how to point it at stuff how do we guarantee that what it actually gives us is going to be something we can start in front of Boston some quote all the media without it yeah I mean hallucinations are definitely a um a challenge and they're being overcome in different different ways and different models and different tools I can best speak to what we're doing at Microsoft with for example new Bing and that is working really hard to reference so where it makes uh comments it references its source so instead of having to really dig uh for it you click that you go where's the source if I see this do I think that's a reputable Source not all sources are created equal uh getting something about marketing from SIM versus some unknown blogger is going to have obviously more Merit and that's one way we're trying to solve it we'll continue to evolve on that I think we're working on on ways we do referencing and showing and I think as we get more plugins and data sets that's also going to be a big moment of this if you know you're plugging in to say a proprietary data set within in Sim or in within your own organization high level of trust in that you don't have to worry if you're doing it from the open web and scraping then you have to be much more judicious judicious about you know how you validate that before you take any action thing congratulations there's a lady at the back of the long dog hair oh you've both got one though okay first of all good for you you after Madam yeah um I'm currently using chatty TP um big chat and Google bars mostly to help me with copywriting um usually just put inputting some information there and then massaging it afterwards so that it is still my own work um what are the other top tools to say I also use um generative film in Photoshop um which I'm loving what are the other hottest marketing tools that you guys are aware of that are not yet on my radar I'll come to you first Vincent so um first the cold shower they are about 10 000 tools and about one a lot every day because it's so easy to create them but they are dominant tools right so you're right strategypt you can't get wrong with that um bad also I I use in fact I use them to cross-check back to the issue of isolation uh the outputs like what is it what does this one say when this one say that right so I use them to uh um the one which I find very useful is uh Claude from entropic because it has 100 000 tokens context which means you can feed the entire Wikipedia Wikipedia But Shakespeare books and uh your documentation will easily go into the the context uh which means you can have real conversations because it can connect the dots that chargpt can't do right now because 3gbt is limited to 4000 tokens and now 16 000 if you use GPT 3.5 a bit more but not enough to get a full picture when you have complex subject to address so that will be another tool to look at in the world of images of course you've heard about me Johnny the equivalence which is safe is Adobe Firefly Adobe Firefly guarantee production against uh any IP issues because they've used their own training data so in the world of creation I would look at Adobe Firefly in the world of video if you're into that space uh you I would start with animation type video in kyber k-i-k-a-i-b-e-r is is a good is a good tool to create animation on the Fly you take a source picture you describe where you want your picture to go and you will get the full animation from that starting point to the endpoints um in the world of text to video you have Runway ml which can take a text as an input and convert this into a video of like 12 seconds not yet ready for prime time and this is generative AI so already you have text you have image you have pictures okay within charge GPT you have plugins if you don't know that that's science but you want to interrogate your data you can use the code interpreter plugin which means you can talk with 4gbt in natural language explain to me my ga4 analytics give me the Insight give me the most important information from from my traffic so plugins within GPT and this one in particular will be super useful and this is the one of generative AI then you have the world of discriminative AI which is how to use your data to predict behaviors to Cluster audiences in that space I believe that Microsoft is doing interesting thing with Azure I use a tool called that IQ which is a visual local and I can build prediction model in five minutes with that tool so when you combine this uh this connective AI interactive AI dominant tools you have the perfect Arsenal here to do whatever you want yeah right what should I add to that I think that was a pretty comprehensive Encyclopedia of the tools just ask for GPT no you can't because it's going to hallucinate as a thing [Music] hello um it sounds like from the conversation today that one of the kind of key facts and success of AI is its application and more importantly it's responsible application do you think as marketers we have a responsibility to educate our businesses as well as individually upskilling about how to respond to the user good question is it our responsibility to educate above as you know I I my personal view is it's everyone who sees the value in these tools to a use them responsibly and then B advocate for that and and demonstrate that responsibility and educate those that are that is earlier on in that that journey and I yeah I think for the most part you you see that happening and there's going to be early adopters and there's going to be laggers and you know that that adoption curve has been there and it's pretty pervasive for a long time that will continue to persist so I think by demonstrating how it can be responsibly used is also going to accelerate adoption of those that are maybe a little bit more reluctant to take take it on I think it's obviously a big concern in business around data uh privacy should be a huge concern there and that's you know how is the model that you're using being built and what data you know so knowing your Source I don't think it's going to be good enough uh as as legislation and regulation picks up to say oh I didn't know that's how it's done you have to interrogate what tool you're going to use and and why it is the right one or the safe one that's where you know if you're talking about um some of the tools that we provide obviously you know we're doing some of that work adobe's doing great things with firefly there as well and kind of I guess to an extent indemnifying um but yeah going off and using some of these startup ones you've got to be careful and so that start there and then just educating again practicing all those kind of things and sharing what doesn't work so you know the the right path to go uh this is a controversial subject this one because I believe that's uh the c-suites the the will have the responsibility to choose the right model and therefore to understand what is a model and understand the constitutional principle behind the models and some companies do reveal their constitutional principles I.E how they want the machine to how do they want the AI to be a and some other companies don't and some companies lie about this and some company don't so you will have to be educated to make the right larger wage model choice if you want to act responsibly which means you need to uh yeah that's how that has quite a lot to ask of marketers that they they understand they understand how the algorithms work no no the decision to use a model should be made by the IQ department or whatever right in in the with the Insight of how that model has been built and which data has been used for training right and then the application then you can close your eyes and and rely on your on your partner on your colleagues for making the right choices right but the organization when the organization needs to be aware of that right so that it can scare responsibly down to the marketers is my point do you think Archie procurement teams generally are aware of how these things are built some of them are some of them odds BT is very well aware that I would not comment for everyone just reading the news you know is a good signal to see where this is going and what you can trust in what you call it um yeah let's sing another question just on that question most of what people are seeing about AI at the moment is that in two years time which seems to be this this timeline AI is going to kill off the human race basically and that's what most people unfortunately are seeing at the moment how as sort of professionals can we navigate through that and have a sensible conversation about some of the things that you've talked about it bringing to us that has ADD positivity to things rather than this constant fear that we're going to turn into sort of a Terminator type scenario I think it's a great question just briefly because I think I although mentioned fear amongst marketers I think Fair amongst marketers is much lower as a proportion of the marketing profession of that profession as it is the society at large you know I think more I think many more because actually a lot of positives in it there is some fear but it's generally positive but that's possibly true this lady says that as a society at Large it is seen as a bit Terminator too it is seen as a bit of a a threat that is going to cause us major problems how can we as marketers maybe share the positive side to understand I I find that one of the most powerful ways to to tell is to show right and where we we see it less of a scenario where it takes over from us and we keep we keep demonstrating where it it augments our capabilities it enables us it empowers us is it is a really great way to show obviously a fear around what it does do to jobs in in some sectors that might be uh different to others but as we continue to find the applications and lower the the hurdle towards understanding it and getting people to to play with it um is going to help some way but I think yeah it's an incredibly incredibly complex topic from from a range of views be it political societal um commercial I'm sure this has a much deeper uh point of view from the the technology specifically and and how that's I don't know just just to come back on the two years figure right it's not coming from nowhere it's coming from gatler Magic um the uh inflation curve you know where it's so on that curve you can see that machine learning which has been around for years is almost at the plateau engineerative AI is at the peak of inflation and it takes about a couple of years to go to a plateau so it's a question of time within two years we'll forget about this uh fear because it's going to be so embedded in whatever we do and whatever we use it's going to be in the car it's going to be in the fridge it's going to be in your TV it's going to be everywhere and it's gonna It's Gonna Act kindly that's that's what people kind of uh witness after using this generative AI a lot the kindness of it um that's it's gonna become normal and so we will forget this moment of fear um that we should not incentivize by also not looking at the wrong people right so of course if we follow that YouTube influencer and that Twitter account and so on that keep repeating these messages we just encourage these people uh to communicate this and most of the time with an agenda the agenda being to accelerate regulation of the industry and to a real water garden so that's some companies emerge winners from this and some others lose so there is an agenda that is manipulative and by not focusing on the people that convey this agenda will also solve the problem the third one is education right and again thanks for the CIS for self-assem to um to start this this journey because if people don't understand how AI works and the fact that AI is not intelligence AI is just patterns and connections um then then they will at this point when they understand that that they understand there is no risk for Humanity do you think there's a problem in the naming do you think it got named badly because you say that artificial intelligence is not intelligent I think you're right yeah I think it should not be called intelligence it should be called something else you know I want to blame Hollywood for a lot of that as well there's Terminator I turned on I I Robot earlier in the week and that was bad but it wasn't it like when you talk about all this maybe don't put it into robotics it seems to be what the directors are telling us and in fact just to finish on that think about what moving science fiction that was positive about AI I see none zero nada they are all negative it's all about how the humanity is going to disappear and whether the Matrix Terminator whatever none of these filmmakers had a positive light when you look at the reality each time I talk about AI or use or look at people using AI I see positive I see happiness I see Liberation you know so where where is this in the media nowhere it's our job as marketer to show the the nice picture but also the the reality of AI which is not completely maybe we need to let it write a movie about itself to its own script writing personal PR [Laughter] we're almost at the end of our hour I've got time for one possibly two questions if they quit I'll take one more from the audience lady here with Pat so I specialize in SEO for for very traditional um and even getting them to understand why they need SEO in the first place could be like pulling teeth um and when I've tried to use AI for example for copywriting there just isn't I know it uses dates it's already available on the internet and there just isn't enough at specialists in [Music] um but at the same time I'm worried that search engines and the internet in general are kind of going in a direction where actually these businesses are going to need Ai and then they're going to need to be able to use it in order to be able to still use search engine optimization so at what point are these Niche sectors going to be able to actually utilize the AI technology because at the moment I feel like they're going to need it but the tools that I've used are just not they then they're just not accurate enough and equine sector is one example of many one machine there's a quadrant Niche sector where there just isn't a wealth of information or data for it to work for yeah it it's definitely a challenge I I think as as Vincent's made the point of saying you know it's not actually intelligent it's got to build from something and if it's not there to build from then it can't draw on it to give you a response in kind look search is changing I think in amazing ways but very very rapidly um and that experience now with chat what it means for Publishers of content how they will monetize from that or how they will uh what the audience experience will be like we know it's going in the right direction that the audience is getting a richer experience for sure and yeah I'd come back to that stat about 10 billion queries and about 50 of them not getting the answer people are looking for so I think that's amazing and then as marketers SEO has been foundational to search for for a long long time now I'm sure you have a huge amount of expertise in your your Niche I think

2023-08-05 22:28

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