Ancient Aliens, Fallen Angels, Hidden Secrets Of The Vatican, The Coming Superhuman Race
Ben: My name is Ben Greenfield. And, on this episode of the Ben Greenfield Life podcast. Timothy: It's described in great detail these vehicles apparently can hover in place. They can fly at great speeds. They discharge what appears to be missiles or lasers. These vehicles are written about in the Indian epics in the context of historical fact. They're coming with their technology and with their knowledge, so they're introducing into this Iron Age civilization technology that far surpasses anything we have today. Ben: Faith, family, fitness, health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and a whole lot more. Welcome to the show. Alright, folks, it's something I've hinted
at a couple of times. We've never really done a podcast about topics like, say, UFOs or aliens or the Nephilim or anything like that. But, I have been eating up the content and the book called "Birthright" by my guests on today's podcast, Timothy Alberino. And, he's like the Indiana Jones of lost civilizations and hidden treasures and legendary creatures.
For me, as a guy who has grown up in North Idaho and Eastern Washington, I've of course always known about the legend of Bigfoot. But, Tim goes way beyond just Bigfoot and dives into a whole host of esoteric topics like alternative history and ancient methodologies, and architecture giants, cryptids, UFOs, alien abduction, transhumanism, occult conspiracies, eschatology, you name it. Tim's got something out there on it, and he has some fantastic videos on his website. Obviously, you could go deep down the rabbit hole, and I am going to put a link and resources for everything that we talk about, including Timothy's fantastic book, "Birthright" if you go to BenGreenfieldLife.com/Birthright. That's BenGreenfieldLife.com/Birthright. Tim,
welcome to the show, man. Timothy: Hey, Ben, thanks for inviting me. Ben: No problem. By the way, you go by Tim or Timothy? Timothy: Tim's fine. Ben: Alright, cool. That saves me a few syllables. How'd you get into all this, man? Timothy: Well, I suppose it started when I was 18 years old and I got kicked out/dropped out of high school and then I moved to the Amazon jungle, to the Amazon basin in Peru. And, that's really where the journey began for me. By the time I was 19, I was living in the Amazon
and encountered all kinds of weird things and had some interesting encounters myself in terms of, let's call it, some paranormal stuff, but also became familiarized with some of the legends in Peru and then of course the megaliths and stories of giants. And so, that's really where things began for me was in the Amazon based in the Peru. Ben: The Amazon seems like kind of a random place to go after getting kicked out of high school. How'd that actually go down? Timothy: Well, truth be told, I was kicked out of high school and then my first attempt at traveling abroad was Ireland. I had this dream of going to Ireland. And so, I'll make a very long story
very brief. I landed in Gatwick, London in order to go up north to Scotland and cross over to Ireland. And, me and my buddy had this whole three-month-long trek planned and they deported me from Gatwick the next day. Ben: Really? Timothy: So, first, got kicked out of high school, then I got kicked out of the United Kingdom. Ben: Were these for similar reasons? I mean, were you just walking over with a joint in your mouth or something like that, or totally different reasons? Timothy: No, no, no. I was never a troublemaker in any way. I've never did any kind of drugs. I didn't drink. I would say very straightedge young
man. In school, I just--that's kind of a different conversation, but let's say that I wasn't excited about certain policies in school like homework. I had my own policy, and that was that I didn't bring school home. Ben: Yeah. Timothy: So, the teachers would pass out homework and I hated that place so much that I refused to bring it home. And so, I would just sign my name and turn it back in.
And, very politely, like I said, I was never disruptive student, but I passed all my grades but I did so by the skin of my teeth. But, school bored me to death for one thing and I wasn't very enthusiastic about the social interactions and the environment and the fakery of high school. So, that was a different situation. Ben: Yeah. And, by the way, I'm nodding my head like I understand, but I was homeschooled K through 12. So,
it's a little bit of a foreign concept to me, but I think I get it. I'm just wondering if any of your teachers have had a chance to get their hands on your big books now and seen your videos. Timothy: I don't know but that would be very interesting. But, I got kicked out of England for other reasons. In fact, the reason why they kicked me and my buddy out of England boils down to the fact that they didn't like the particular immigration officer, this woman I was dealing with. She was not too fond of young White American Yankees, male, I should say young, young White male American Yankees. That's the way she put it. And so,
she called me a Yankee. It's the first time I've ever been called a Yankee in my entire life, and literally turned us around, put us on the plane home the next day. And, how does that get me to Peru? Because when I came back to the United States, back to Cleveland, Ohio, well, actually a suburb of Cleveland, Ohio, Brook Park, Ohio where I grew up in which I was desperately trying to escape, it was just the doldrums of suburbia America. And, I was quite an adventurous lad. And so, when I came back, I was very depressed. I was distraught, to say the least. Like, I can't get out of here. And, it just
so happened my father was a pastor, it just so happened that there was this Mexican missionary. He was a Mexican-American missionary to Peru named Alfonso Felix. And, he happened to be speaking at my dad's church like the week I came back from being deported from England. And, my stepmother
had been to Peru with Alfonso and she said, "Tim, you need to go to Peru." She saw how depressed I was from getting ejected from the United Kingdom. And, she said, "You need to go to Peru." I didn't really have any desire to go to Peru, but it was the only option left. The door opened and I ended up going down with Alfonso for a month or two. And then, I came back to United States to work for a
couple of months just to save up enough money to leave for good. So, it was 18, 19 years old. Eighteen years old was the transition to prove. By the time I was 19, I was living there long-term. Ben: Wow. I'm chuckling as you talk about the young White male American Yankee. I feel like that could be a new pronoun like the YWMA, identify as YWMA. Timothy: That's right. Yeah. Nobody really uses the term
"Yankee." I feel like it's underutilized. Ben: No, no. I mean, the last time I heard that was when I recommended my sons read Mark Twain's book, "The Connecticut Yankee and King Arthur's Court." Great book, by the way, for people who need a good Mark Twain read. So anyways, talking about Peru, obviously elephant in the room here we have all the news headlines at least at the time that you and I are recording this about these alien attacks in Peru. I'm curious, have you returned to Peru since then? Is that where you're interested in things paranormal first arose? Timothy: Since this situation that's unfolded in the jungle with these alleged-- Ben: No, no, well, since you originally went there with this missionary. Did you get interested in the paranormal there? Timothy: Yes, yes. So, I ended up staying in Peru for a couple of years just wandering around mainly in the Amazon. I was all over the place, including way up the river where this incident took place
recently with the villagers and the aliens, the alleged aliens. I was in the Andes as well. I was all over the place. I was kind of a vagabond. And then, that's when I had some very interesting experiences. And then, after that, I went back to Ohio briefly, back to Cleveland, Ohio, and I ended up getting married to one of the young ladies in my dad's church. I think I swore I would never do by the way. And then, her and I moved to Peru. Ben: Get married or get married to a church girl? Timothy: Well, I always said, look, if I'm going to get married, I'm not going to marry an American woman, especially an American woman from Cleveland, Ohio, and especially American woman from Cleveland, Ohio that happens to be a member if my dad's church. Ben: You're not going to marry a Yankee. Timothy: Exactly. And, that is precisely what I did. And then, after we got married,
we moved together to Peru, and the adventure continued in Peru for number of years. All total, I lived about 10 years in the Amazon basin. Ben: You said you had some interesting experiences there, it sounds like that got you a little bit interested in this whole paranormal piece, what were some of those experiences? Timothy: Well, I guess I should say that one of the primary motivations to not necessarily going specifically to Peru but leaving, leaving this, as I said, the doldrums of suburbia America was, first of all, I had this insatiable appetite for adventure. That was the first thing. I just couldn't quench it. It was just insatiable. I mean, I
read through the "Chronicles of Narnia" when I was 10, 11, 12 years old. Then, I devoured "The Lord of the Rings" when I was a teenager and, as I said, I just had an insatiable appetite for adventures. That was part of the equation. But then, the other part of the equation was I also had an insatiable appetite to encounter God. I grew up in church and I had very good upbringing, by the way. I had very good parents, grew up in a very healthy environment. And so, I'm thankful for that. But, I was left with this desire to have a burning bush encounter with God. And, I was willing to sacrifice
everything to attain it. And, I just felt like I was being drawn into the wilderness, so to speak, to get away from everything and to get by myself and to isolate myself somewhere and seek the face of God intensely for an extended period of time. And, that's a very long story. But ultimately, I did do just that in the Amazon, and I had quite the experience, which is a whole--take me three hours to explain that. But, let's just say that for the sake of brevity that my quest
was fulfilled. Let's just put it that way. Ben: Most of the people I talk to these days who talk about having a spiritual experience in the Amazon, they're using entheogenic substances, ayahuasca or something like that. Was it similar for you? Timothy: No, no. I've never touched ayahuasca. I never even smoked a joint to this day. I mean, I smoked cigars and pipes, but it's tobacco, it's not weed.
Ben: Yeah, yeah. Although down there they snort that up their nose with the Rapé tobacco. I think it's a nicotine-based alkaloid in that stuff. Timothy: In the jungle, they smoke a very, very crude cigarette called a mapacho. They roll it themselves and it's very harsh and very strong.
But, there's a lot of ayahuasca. And, I never want to alter my state of mind. I don't like it. I don't even like to take pain pills, strong pain pills. I just don't like the feeling of my mind being altered in any way. And so, I've always stayed away from those kinds of substances, psychedelics, and ayahuasca and those kinds of. Ben: Yeah. Well, I'd be curious for your take on
that because there's obviously that guy, Brian Muraresku. I had him on my podcast a couple of years ago who swears that entheogenic substances were a core foundational part of early Christianity. And, a lot of people are using psychedelics or entheogens, in my opinion, a very similar way to how they were used for the purposes of divination, for example, in scripture referred to as pharmakeia. And, as a part of this, and I would imagine you've probably come across this yourself, people report interacting with or seeing entities and they're often consistent entities from person to person like some kind of a purple fairy or a praying mantis or whatever. Timothy: The machine elves, yeah. Ben: Yeah, the machine elves. What's your take on that? Do you think these are actual aliens or angels or demons or something like that that people are experiencing? Timothy: Well, my take on this would be that there's a field of consciousness.
And, I haven't really spent a whole lot of time developing this idea of mine, but I think there's a field of consciousness. I think that all of us are intrinsically connected to some degree and that when you take psychedelics, you sort of tap into this internet of consciousness, let's call it. And so, that would explain why people experience the same sort of, do they see the same sort of things, they have sometimes the same sort of experiences, both with their positive and negative trips. So, if you're tapping into, again, an internet of consciousness,
if we are all intrinsically connected and not just us but other conscious entities as well, then you're dealing with a perceptual reality. You're not necessarily dealing with a tangible reality, a physical reality, rather you're in a perceptual--let's call it a realm, although I don't really like that word very much. We're in a perceptual realm in which our minds are plugged in to this internet of consciousness. And, that would explain why everyone, not everyone but why there's so much similarity in people's experiences and why you can interface with different kinds of entities and why people receive similar messages, why shamans, for example, can access information regarding plants, regarding medicinal plants and other things like that because in the same way that we access information on the Internet that's available to everybody who can get online.
And so, there's something like that in my estimation happening. We don't understand consciousness and we are all intrinsically connected even in the material sense with quantum entanglement and all of that. There's something like conscious entanglement as well. And, that's a gateway. It's a gateway. And, here's the reason why it is prohibited in the Hebrew scriptures. Because when you open yourself up, when you plug in to this internet of consciousness, as a human being, you're at a disadvantage. You're in a perceptual
world that you're not familiar with. You are not in control at that point. And so, you're susceptible to all kinds of manipulation and deception and who knows what else. And, I think we don't understand it and you're playing with fire when you subject yourself. Now, people will say, aren't there benefits to, for example, low dose psilocybin for patients who are terminally ill with cancer or something like that, who when they take some psilocybin, assuming they have a good trip and most people do with psilocybin, that it actually abates the fear of death and it helps them to accept their terminal illness? I don't think I would be opposed to that. I think there's environments in which psychedelics
might be useful, but I've seen some pretty dramatic things happen with people who take ayahuasca. I've seen some people get absolutely ruined. And, you hear about all the good stories, but you don't hear the bad ones. And, the bad ones are pretty dramatic. I know people who did ayahuasca and suddenly they've got a visitor. They've got something that is following them. It's a phenomenon. You might consider it something like demon possession where these people suddenly can't shake this presence. It's like it's attached itself to them
after ayahuasca. And, this is a real problem for these people. They go down there to get detoxed in Tarapoto, Peru, where I spent a lot of time in the Peruvian Amazon basin. There's a place called Takiwasi. It's famous. It's run by some French people. And, I lived right next to it and it's a detox center, and they use ayahuasca and they use shamans. And, I heard some stories from the people who've gone through the detox. Yeah, they got detoxed off of an addiction to heroin or something like that. But now, they're dealing with what appears to be
something like demon possession. And so, they traded one problem for another. And, you don't hear about those cases. Ben: Yeah. I have multiple friends who have done a lot. And, I think the only kind of, I guess, decent media that the dark side of ayahuasca or plant medicine general has gotten is I think the New Yorker, New Yorker magazine did a nine-part podcast series on sexual abuse and stripping the Amazon of its resources, and also some of these issues with bipolar, schizophrenia or multiple personality disorder that I think you and I might suspect could be something like an entity or a demonic possession or something like that, that a lot of these people come out of those experiences with. And, I have multiple friends who
have had to go through an exorcism-like experience after coming back from something like ayahuasca. And, I don't think that kind of like your reference to psilocybin when used in the proper context, I don't necessarily think that that makes those plants or those plant combinations evil. I think they're just being used in a way that perhaps God, if you're a creationist or a Christian perhaps didn't intend their use. I've used low-dose psilocybin before to crush through a creative writing day. I think it's fantastic for something like that as is like an ergo-like fungus such as LSD and very small doses for a workout or even something like Rapé or low dose ayahuasca for hunting to increase sensory perception, which from my understanding it was originally used or at least partially used as hunting medicine in many of those cultures. And so, I think there's a time and a place to use these, but I mean, I'm even to the point where with something say like a psilocybin dose, which I wouldn't consider trauma therapy or end-of-life therapy for something like cancer to be low dose, I think it's more like a heroic dose of psilocybin that's used in a lot of the research on that. And, I know I'm
biased coming from a Christian background, but I think that even in those cases there should be a better attempt to come before God to implement the spiritual disciplines in your own life and to engage in things like meditation and prayer and community and worship before you turn to psilocybin to release something like past trauma. Timothy: Yeah. You're talking about low dosing on psilocybin, you don't have the agency or to meet, let's call the mediation of a medicine man or witch doctor, which changes the game because some acquaintances of mine were curanderos or Peruvian witch doctors, Andean witch doctors let's say. And, I asked them during the ayahuasca session, "What is it that you're doing?" Because I've witnessed ayahuasca sessions. I've never done it myself, but I've watched them. And, obviously, the medicine men are playing different,
the curanderos are playing their different instruments and chanting and so forth. And, their job according to these guys who are curanderos who do do ayahuasca sessions with people regularly --and, in fact, one of these guys was quite famous. He said that while our job is kind of twofold, one, we lead people on this journey into this experience. We lead them through this journey. We make sure they're okay. But also, we are inviting the guides, we're inviting the spirit guides, the spirits of the jungle and of the ancient spirits to come and interact with these people. And then, he proceeded to describe what this looks like. And so, they would invoke
these different entities during the ceremony and he says that we actually witnessed the entities and so do the people sometimes who are having the ayahuasca experience who are under the influence of the brew. Because you're usually sitting in a circle, the entities enter the circle and they go up to each person and they look at them in the face each one, they examine them and when they find one that is suitable for whatever it is that they're looking for, they go into that person. And, this is what they described to me. This is what the curanderos described to me, the shamans.
And so, there's this added component, which is the mediation of a shaman which changes the purpose, the direction, the intention of what you're doing. And, if you're taking a low dose psilocybin to deal with depression or something, your intention isn't to make contact with entities and you're not doing it through the mediation of a shaman, which I think that totally changes the environment. Ben: Yeah, I agree. I would say that the use of those substances is like a nootropic or even for therapeutical purposes is as you just allude to far different than their use for something like divination or say possession. So, yeah, I think the use and the intention kind of lies behind the effects, good or bad. By the way, that field of consciousness, that universal field of consciousness that you referred to, obviously some people with some of these drugs are talking about are able to tap into with a lot better efficiency. Is that related to the Akashic record that I've heard some people talking about like this idea that the entire history of humankind is somehow stored in this other dimension and acceptable and able to be tapped into by witches or sorcerers or shamans or folks of that nature? Timothy: Maybe. I think there is something to be
said for the collective memory and experience of mankind that even genetically, I think there's probably some genetic memories that we carry from our ancestors. We certainly carry genetic components of our ancestors. Biologically, we bear some of the markers of our ancestors. And so, it wouldn't surprise me that our consciousness is somehow affected by that as well and that you may be able to access memories, you may be able to access information through this field of consciousness. But again, human beings are in terms of our intelligence, in terms of our ability to navigate these waters, we're infants and we're always going to be at a disadvantage when encountering other entities who are much more, let's say, efficient and practiced, experienced at dealing with us than we are at dealing with them.
We're always going to be at a disadvantage. Ben: Yeah. I think I have actually written something like that before in an article I wrote about plant medicine a couple of years ago. Who are you to think lying in your New York City loft with your shaman recently certified shaman friend that you're going to enter into some spiritual portal and be able to withstand effing around with entities who have been playing with human being's brains and minds and bodies for about the past, 10,000 years or whatever. That's an arrogant assumption, a dangerous one in my opinion. Timothy: Precisely right. Ben: You've obviously kind of like alluded to the idea that you believe in entities or in this other spiritual world. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, I get that impression reading your book as well. But, for illustrative
purposes, that incident that both of us alluded to about the Peruvian minors. Do you think that that's the situation where these are like aliens or entities that these people were seeing? Timothy: Well, if we think about this field of consciousness as an Internet of consciousness, you and I are accessing the Internet right now, but we're not inside of the Internet, we are physical beings simply using this technology to interface. So, it could be that there are physical beings on the Earth and off the Earth who are accessing this field of information, this internet of consciousness, who are not physically inside of it. It's just like you and I are in different locations accessing this technology interfacing. They're interfacing with us, but that doesn't mean that they're there. That doesn't necessarily mean that they themselves are there. It could be biological beings simply interfacing with their minds and not actually like some sort of a spiritual entity. But, I don't discount the notion of a disembodied entity.
Obviously, I believe in demon possession and that those are specifically disembodied beings. But, those disembodied beings, the condition of their disembodiment is a curse. It's not natural, it's unnatural for them. And, it's a situation that they very much would like to resolve. It's a torturous state of affairs for them, a condition that is intolerable. And so, I would say we're probably dealing with entities that are actually physical, biological beings interfacing with us, let's say, telepathically through this internet of consciousness. Ben: So, it sounds to me like what I'm hearing is that in the case, and I don't know a lot about what happened recently in Peru, you could probably explain it better than I could. But,
are you saying that there's the potential here that whatever these villagers were having to deal with were spiritual entities that had taken on the form of some known physical shell or physical body that they were able to access on earth, like a human being or an animal or something like that? Timothy: No. I would say that if indeed these villagers were encountering extraterrestrials in their words, then what we're dealing with are specifically material entities, physical beings. I don't think that this is some sort of a supernatural experience, I think it's very much a physical experience. I think what we would be looking at in this case is entities who are in possession of exceedingly advanced technology. Ben: So, what's the origin of these physical beings, like where they come from? Timothy: There's no way to know for sure, but-- Ben: I guess like where would you say? Because I think you talk about this a little bit in your book "Birthright," about potential for these to be like entities from a whole different, like these lords of a different realm that are now present on Earth or something like that. Timothy: Yes. You can have entities that are
indigenous to planet Earth, that are primordial, indigenous creatures. That may be Bigfoot, by the way. A hominid, an ancient hominid that's been here forever or at least as long as mankind, if not longer. You can have that. That's one possibility. Then, you can have entities that came here at some time from elsewhere. These would be extraterrestrial beings who arrived to Earth at some time in the past, and who've taken up habitation here, who've inhabited the Earth, probably under the Earth, under the oceans, and who have been interacting with us ever since they've been here. "Fallen angels" would fall into that category for sure,
but they might also have been here before us. And then, you have the possibility of entities that are actively visiting the Earth. So again, in an extraterrestrial capacity, they're coming here and doing whatever they're doing, but they're not from here and they don't live here. Although I would say that if there's an extraterrestrial faction visiting the Earth, they probably have bases here as well. So, just like we would do if we were visiting Mars, we would establish a base, an outpost. So, at the very least these beings would have outposts here. But then, you also have in the mix, you do have entities that are disembodied demons specifically that are in the equation but not necessarily related to these extraterrestrial entities.
And, in my book, "Birthright," one of the first things I do is establish the fact that the biblical narrative presumes the existence of extraterrestrials unequivocally. It absolutely presumes the existence of ETs because these beings that the Bible ambiguously designates as angels preexist mankind very clearly so, they preexist us. They shouted the sons of God, the bene Elohim shouted for joy when the foundations of the earth were laid. So, these
beings, the sons of God, i.e., the angels preexist mankind. That makes them extraterrestrial because they even preexist the foundation of the Earth. So, an extraterrestrial simply means a being. And, if we're talking about a sentient creature, a being whose provenance is not planet Earth. So, if you were not created or born on Earth, you are by definition extraterrestrial, period. And,
angels certainly fit that description, the good and bad. And so, this angelic race who I designated my book as the "elder race" because, A, they're clearly older than us, and B, they certainly constitute a race from a civilization, by the way. They have all the earmarks, all the trademarks of civilization, of an advanced extraterrestrial civilization, in fact. And, I'm just reading practically through the narrative, the biblical narrative. And, if you
read it practically and you don't put on your supernatural spectacles or something like that, you just read it as you would read anything else, then these are logical deductions. And so, you have in play this angelic race, who I call the elder race, when you talk about extraterrestrials who are certainly flying around in our airspace in advanced aerospace vehicles. They're navigating the skies over planet Earth in advanced technology. You would have, at least to some degree, the elder race would be involved in this activity, good and bad. I think the bad guys are confined to the Earth to some extent. That doesn't mean that they have to stay on Earth but this is where they were and where they have been for a long time. And, the good guys would be being dispatched from somewhere
else and coming here for various reasons. The kind of reasons that we read about in the Old Testament, for example, and in the New Testament. So, it's difficult for Christians to make the transition from paranormal thought to practical thought when thinking about these things. But, when you do make that transition, your paradigm, you can comfortably accommodate extraterrestrials into your paradigm without losing your faith. And, that to me seems to be very important, especially in this day and age. Ben: Yeah. And, beyond Christian
historical writings of the Bible, isn't there a lot of other literature, including like ancient Indian texts that have reports of some kind of advanced technology, particularly advanced flying technology that humankind has kind of experienced a lot in the past beyond just like the recent surge of what appears to be increased activity reported by the Air Force or some of these sightings of Peru? Timothy: Yeah, the Indian epics talk about Vimanas, which are flying machines. And, they describe them in great detail and they even describe the engine. It's a mercury engine that operates by rotating mercury. Again, it's described in great detail. These vehicles apparently can hover in place, they can fly at great speeds, they discharge what appears to be missiles or lasers. And again, these vehicles are written about in the Indian epics in the context of historical fact. These are not necessarily taken as myths by the Indians rather this is history to them. So, there are some indication that there might have been some kind of advanced aerospace vehicles on Earth in the distant past that, let's say, human beings were encountering or perhaps even manufacturing. Ben: Yeah, those Indian writings,
those are like thousands of years old. And so, if this technology has been around for that long, do you think that we've actually inherited some of this technological knowhow that we now have or at some point, even, for example, pre-flood or back to the ancient megaliths or something like that had inherited such technology? Timothy: Yeah, the Ramayana and the Mahabharata. These are the two main documents that we read about these advanced flying machines called Vimana. But also, within this epic--and, this is an antediluvian epic.
Ben: What's that mean antediluvian? Timothy: Antediluvian simply means before the flood. So, pre-flood, before the Great Cataclysm, which all major cultures talk about. They all discuss this Great Cataclysm. Ben: Right. That's not just like Sunday school, that's like all over the world. Timothy: Oh, no. No, no. This is ubiquitous around the world. Ben: Yeah. Timothy: And, most of these cultures specifically talk about a flood, but it's described variously all over the Earth. Every primary culture on the planet has a cataclysm myth. And so, not only do
these Vimana, rather these Indian epics talk about Vimana flying craft, they also discuss in great detail this conflict, this massive war that occurred. And, the war involved not just human beings, but it was also the gods. So, you had the gods with their various armies, human armies and other creatures involved. And, they were engaged in this epic conflict, this war, and that notion that there was a great war, this incredible war in which advanced technology was deployed, followed by a cataclysm that destroyed the Earth and annihilated every faction involved in this war. That story is also duplicated all over the Earth. We're all familiar with the story of Atlantis, for example, and everyone knows that Atlantis was destroyed in a cataclysm. Okay. But, a lot of people don't realize that before Atlantis was destroyed in a cataclysm, it was engaged in war.
It was expanding its empire. And, Atlantis was, according to the myth and according to Plato, Atlantis was founded by Poseidon, by the god Poseidon who copulated with a human woman named Plato. She conceived and gave birth to five sets of twins. And, they were according to some other sources, these were giants. The kings of Atlantis were giants. So, there are 10 kings of Atlantis, and they ruled over seven islands and three continents. And, these kings of Atlantis, these demigods ended up going to war with the other nations. And, Plato says specifically with Athens
and Athens, which was founded by the goddess Athena, and the Athenians were the only military force able to withstand Atlantis. And so, there was this epic conflict that was underway, but it was interrupted by a global cataclysm, which not only destroyed Atlantis, but also Athens, it destroyed the whole world. And obviously, this syncs with the biblical account. So, you find this cataclysm mythos all over the earth, and it usually involves floods, earthquakes, and it discusses some sort of a global conflict, or at least a conflict in which the gods or the offspring of the gods are involved and the annihilation of almost all life on Earth as a consequence of both the conflict and then the cataclysm. Ben: Well, I mean, if you had a dad who was a pastor, and I grew up going to the average evangelical Sunday school, you hear about this antediluvian period, this pre-flood period and you basically hear this story, people were really bad and then God flooded the Earth because people were really bad and He had to cleanse the earth. And, it brings to mind, maybe people stealing with each other and maybe some big orgies and yeah, some murder and anarchy or whatever. But, it sounds to me like you're suggesting that
it goes a little bit deeper than just people walking around doing bad things to each other. Timothy: Yes. And this, by the way, was the Hebrew perspective. Ancient Hebrew cosmology very much included the narrative that I just unfolded, and it's found in the book of Enoch, primarily. By the way, not only the ancient Hebrews but also during the time of Christ, they were all very much aware of what I call the Enochian tale. In fact, Christ alludes to it and he uses a title "Son of Man" that's not found as a proper title in the Old Testament, but it is featured extensively in the book of Enoch in these particular messianic prophecies pertaining to him. And so, the ancient Hebrew perspective which is where we should be deriving our perspective as Christians if we're going to talk about the pre-flood world, but most churches don't because they're simply not well versed in Hebrew cosmology. And, from the ancient Hebrew
cosmological perspective, they believe that there is this particular incident that occurred in which the sons of God, specifically this hierarchy called the watchers, this group of entities called the watchers, descended to the Earth in the days of Jared. So, this is in a pre-flood context and they saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, were comely. This is, of course, recorded in Genesis 6. But, Genesis 6 is merely alluding to a story that everyone
already was familiar with, and that probably came specifically from the Book of Enoch. And so, these watchers, having seen the daughters of men, observed them that they were comely, they lusted after them, they desired to copulate with them and to produce offspring with them. So, they descended to the Earth on the summit of Mount Hermon. They bond themselves by an oath of mutual
imprecations, because they knew what they were about to do was a grave transgression. And then, they descended into the plains around Hermon and they chose wives from the daughters of men. I think it was a transaction with the fathers of these women that they would give mankind knowledge and help them in creating technologies from this knowledge. And, in exchange,
men would give their daughters hands in marriage. They would authorize their daughters to marry them. So, there was this Faustian bargain that was struck. And then, these watchers, they copulated with their wives. The wives conceived and gave birth to giants. And then, the giants began to devour mankind and the technology. The knowledge of the watchers was causing all manner of havoc to be unleashed on Earth and also their offspring were in exceedingly evil and the giants. And, the empire fractionated. This what I call the empire of the gods. And, there was this great
conflict and this was part of their judgment. And, I'm really just encapsulating the story here. So, there's this great conflict between the offspring of the watchers, these giants who were likely the kings of these disparate nations that they created. And, they went to battle and they almost annihilated each other in this Great War, and then came the ultimate judgment, the flood of Noah. So, obviously, we're paralleling the Indian epics and also so many other stories, even Atlantis here. And, this is how the ancient Hebrews viewed the pre-flood world. This is not some invention.
This is exactly how they view the ancient, the antediluvian world. And so, the fact that evangelical Christians and pastors don't discuss it isn't because it's extra-biblical, it's because they're simply not informed of Hebrew cosmology. Ben: Yeah. And, it is a little bit overwhelming when you start to think about it. It's interesting, these technologies that you refer to. And, I think you have a film, and even though I read most of the book, "Birthright," where you
get into the deep literary and historical context of what you're just talking about regarding the Hebrew historical understanding of these events on the plains of Lebanon and these fallen angels, but many other historical texts as well. But, you also have this film, I think it's called "The Technology of the Fallen." So, I know you've looked into this, what kind of technologies are we talking about do you think traded hands here? Timothy: Yeah, I did a film series with a guy named Steve Quayle. We made three films called the "True Legends."
And, in regard to the technology, the way that I view the antediluvian age is generally speaking, the level of technological development of mankind was probably something like the Bronze Age or the Iron Age. But, in the midst of this Iron Age, let's say civilization, you had these extraterrestrial entities who were on the Earth and their hybrid offspring, and these guys were in possession of advanced technology and superior knowledge. And so, the general masses of humanity were not building flying machines, rather the gods and their offspring were building these things and using them to control mankind and to build their various factions, their various kingdoms. That's why I call it the empire of the gods. And, the book of Enoch, by the way, describes 200 watchers and there were 200 watchers who descended in the days of Jared. So, it wasn't just a few, it was 200. And, these 200 watchers created their
own kingdoms on earth. And, this is exactly what Plato says, by the way, that the gods, the story of Atlantis begins with the gods apportioning the Earth among themselves. In other words, all the gods, all these Greek gods are dividing the earth among themselves and their intention is to create their own kingdoms. And so, when you think about all of the
kingdoms of these gods, collectively, you're looking at an empire of the gods. And, they were friendly in the beginning, but they ended up having conflict and going to war, ultimately. And so, I think that there was superior knowledge on Earth to some extent in the antediluvian world, knowledge that the human race probably wasn't supposed to have yet and caused all kinds of calamity for mankind and also technology. So, if you're going to have these advanced extraterrestrial entities called the watchers who are coming from somewhere else, coming to the Earth, they're coming with their technology and with their knowledge. So, they're introducing
into this Iron Age civilization. They're introducing technology that is far surpasses anything we have today, let's say, certainly in regard to their advanced aerospace vehicles and their weaponry and so forth. So, you would have a Bronze or Iron Age civilization influenced by extraterrestrial knowledge and technology. And, what I like to liken it to is the movie
Stargate. I don't know if you remember the movie "Stargate" with Kurt Russell back in the '90s. Ben: I never saw it. No. I never saw it. Timothy: Yeah. So, in the movie Stargate, they go through this Stargate and then they find themselves on another planet. And, this planet is populated by a Bronze Age Egyptian civilization. And, you have all the Egyptian motifs. And,
these people are worshipping this god, Ra. And, Ra happens to be an extraterrestrial. This pyramid that he lives in is actually, you find out it's a spaceship. And, the Bronze Age civilization is just living like a Bronze Age civilization. They're not themselves in possession of advanced technology, but Ra and his minions do have advanced technology. So, they're governing, they're ruling over this civilization, this Bronze Age civilization with technology. And, the people, of course, think that these are the powers of the gods and so forth.
So, we might have had something like that happening in the antediluvian world. And, in fact, I would wager to guess that that's exactly what was happening in the antediluvian world. We had entities in possession of advanced technology. And indeed, when you talk about from a biblical context, when you talk about "fallen angels," and I say quote-unquote because fallen Angel is a contrivance. That term doesn't appear anywhere in biblical or extra-biblical text. It's
a contrivance. Really the way to describe these entities, these fallen angels, is insurgent sons of God or rebellious, disobedient sons of God who have committed an act of insurrection and turned against the Kingdom of heaven. So, they're the enemies of God, but they look just like the good guys, the bad guys and the good guys. There's no reason to think that they look any different. So, "fallen angels" aren't these hideous, grotesque beings with horns and pitchforks and wings. No, rather they look just like the other members of their race. I.e., this angelic race,
the elder race. They would look very much like us. In fact, we look like them. So, they would look very human-like and be quite beautiful, more so than mankind, although they are exceedingly insidious and wicked and are the enemies of mankind. Ben: You don't think they were like lizard people or dragons or serpents or stuff like that that some people say, Timothy: No. Although I would discount the notion that lizard people do exist and maybe these are also like the Bigfoot creature but primordial sentient creatures that have existed on Earth since time immemorial. So, that's a possibility. I don't necessarily subscribe to that, but it's certainly within
the realm of possibility because going back to the ancient Indians, they also reference these beings called the Nagas. And, you find this reference all over the earth as well. The Nagas are a serpentine race of humanoids that are very ancient and have been interacting with mankind for a long time. So, you have this sort of panoply of characters that show up in the mythos of many different cultures like, for example, giants. Giants are ubiquitous. The serpent people are almost ubiquitous. The sons of God, this angelic race that looks like us but more beautiful than us,
they're also nearly ubiquitous in the legends of these primary cultures all around the world. Ben: And, maybe similar to what you were alluding to before, I mean, maybe their original physical form, a different realm or whatever was lizard-like or serpent-like or reptile-like, but they're able to take on the physical form of a more recognizable earthly entity or something like that, like a weird lizard creature inhabiting a human body. Timothy: Well, I was going to say, you have to keep in mind that there's advanced technology also in play. So, maybe in 100 years, we'll be able to create holographic projections, even change our own appearance holographically. You're not necessarily changing your biology, you're just projecting an appearance that is a projection. So, that's also in play. You could have holographic technology all over the place
and that could be in play also in that incident in Peru. You could have a holographic projections that appear to be physical things when in fact they're not. We'll be there, as I said, probably in about 100 years. Ben: Well, that actually makes me think because obviously you see like, I don't know, Graham Hancock or even think you traveled to, if I'm not mistaken, the high-endian plane in Peru, in Bolivia to look at the archaeological evidence of some of these technologies. But, do you think they could potentially, I don't
know if this is a conspiracy theory or what, but like they could potentially exist in their more complete or less ruined form in places like, I don't know, the Vatican or something like that? Timothy: Possibly. Yeah, possibly. I think the Vatican knows. I have a saying in the tagline in one of those films that I did with Steve Quayle that the Vatican knows all the secrets. And, that appears to be true. The Vatican Intelligence Agency, which our intelligence
agencies refer to as The Entity, the reason why they call it The Entity is because it is so vast. It is almost all-knowing. It permeates much deeper than any of our intelligence agencies and all over the world because the Vatican is one of the oldest institutions on earth. So, their intelligence agency is the best on the planet. Obviously, the Church of Rome has been operating for a very long time, for centuries, and has been intricately involved in almost every single Western nation, if not all, every Western nation and even some other nations around the world. In the East, for example, the Vatican has had counselors, and in fact, the Jesuits. That's one of the reasons why the Jesuit order was formulated. The primary reason
why the Jesuit order was formulated was to combat Protestantism but also to infiltrate nations. The Jesuits were the most highly educated agents of Rome. And so, they served in the councils of kings all over the world, even in the East, because they were so highly educated. And so, imagine that going on for hundreds of years. That's why the Vatican's intelligence agency is so well-equipped and so well-versed in the affairs of so many nations around the world, and especially as it pertains to, let's say, ancient secrets. The Vatican archive is immense.
Off the top of my head, I cannot remember how large it is. I think it's over a mile long or something. It's absolutely immense. And, I'm talking about the secret one under the ground. It's not secret in the sense that nobody knows about it, it's secret in the sense that it's almost impossible to get access to it. And, it's full of manuscripts, very ancient manuscripts and
artifacts. And so, I think that were the archives of the Vatican to be opened, it would demand a rewriting of history to some extent. Ben: Man, I think that's bigger than the Smithsonian. Kind of explains what the best gelato in the world you can find outside the walls of the Vatican, which I've been to. They've got all the ancient technology
secrets to the best gelato. That's crazy. Timothy: That's right. They've got the secrets to the best gelato. Yeah. Ben: Man. Have you ever been there to the Vatican or try to get access to some of these hidden chambers? Timothy: Oh, yes, multiple times. Ben: Yeah, that'd be interesting. Yeah. I was asking if you've ever tried to get access to any of the hidden
chambers or if that's even a reality. Timothy: No, it's very difficult to get clearance to go into the archives. Some people have but only in certain areas. They don't let you just peruse the archives. They give you access to particular segments of the archives at a time. But, my god, I mean, really it wouldn't do me or you much good because most of what they have in there is written in Latin and Greek and Hebrew and Aramaic and who knows what else. So,
we would be mostly interested in looking at the artifacts. Does the Vatican, for example, have the bones of giants? I would say unequivocally they have the bones of giants. And, I don't mean some random femur or something, I think they have full skeletons of giants, 15-foot giants. Ben: You could you could theoretically do like a genomic reconstruction with that type of data of like a fallen angel or a Nephilim or at least the Nephilim human being combination. Timothy: That's a very good point. And, I'll bet that's been done. Ben: Well, that's interesting because
the Vatican because I'm to a certain extent involved in the antiaging, longevity, and age hacking industry, and obviously, there tends to be some overlap between that and transhumanism. And, the Vatican actually hosted the last huge antiaging transhumanism longevity enhancing event, and it kind of makes me wonder if there's actually some research or some great interest there going on based on this technology in terms of potential for decreased human mortality or even immortality or something like that. Timothy: Oh, I wouldn't doubt it, I wouldn't doubt it. I think that the transhumanism is a fundamental part of the new religion, which is coming, which I write about my book. And, I think that new religion is going to be, what's the word I'm looking for here, it's going to be ushered in and guided by the Church of Rome, or at least the Church of Rome is going to have a significant role in crafting the doctrine of this new religion. And, this new religion is I coined a phrase in my book called "Apotheotheism." And, I believe that describes the new religion. Apotheo comes from the word. It derives from the word
apotheosis, and apotheosis means the glorification or deification of man. So, man becoming a god. And, theism obviously is the belief in the gods. And so, when you combine apotheosis with theism and you get apotheotheism, what you're describing is a scenario in which a religion in which the existence of the gods is embraced and man himself is attempting to become like the gods. That is apotheotheism. It is the belief that the gods exist and we shall become like them.
Ben: Yeah. I mean, I'm no conspiracy theorist and I embrace science and technology, but when I look at the surge in divination and possession involved with the increasing necromancy that previously would have been the realm of priests and is now available to the common people with artificial intelligence, genetic engineering, transhumanism, and a lot of these technologies seem to rise at the same time, this idea of humans being at the verge, perhaps to a greater extent than we have in history of achieving some kind of superhuman like state seems like it could be a reality. Timothy: Oh, yes. There's no question about it. And, we're going to advance quite a bit in the next decades in regard to genetics, robotics, artificial intelligence, and nanotechnology specifically, but also a host of other technologies that are associated with those.
But, the technology is being developed exponentially. We hear a lot about artificial intelligence because it's the sexiest technology being developed right now and it's very practical, it's the most practical right now because we don't all have access to genetic modification, but we can all play with artificial intelligence. We can all go on ChatGPT and use it to write a report or something like that or go on to mid-journey and create amazing images through using artificial intelligence in a matter of 30 seconds. Like I said, that's sort of like the sexy technology that's apparent to everyone out in the open. But, what's happening under the radar is you have nanotechnology being developed under the radar and you have genetic technologies being developed under the radar, which are going to come together. So, a technologist called this age that we are currently living in, they call it the hybrid age. And, the reason why they call it the hybrid age is because all of
these various technological streams have been developing independently. Genetics, robotics, artificial intelligence, nanotechnology, to name a few. But, right now, something very interesting is happening. These technologies are converging. So, you can imagine these streams converging into a river, and this convergence, they're coming together so you're going to be able to combine artificial intelligence with nanotechnology, with genetic modification, with robotics, which includes cybernetics. When you combine these technologies together, what you have effectively
is the power to literally remake our biology and whatever image we see fit. So, we will literally be able to redesign human biology, and indeed not only redesign human biology but supersede to evolve ourselves into something other than human beings is what I'm trying to say, to become posthuman. We will have the power to manipulate the next step in our directed evolution and create something other than a human being, a posthuman that can no longer really be described as human. Ben: Yeah. And, if you believe that human beings are inherently good, I don't think that's scary of a notion. It's kind of cool actually. But, if you look at what was likely going on back
when the Nephilim or these fallen angels who bred with humankind or ruling the world in terms of the sectoring of the Earth and human beings serving as servants and slaves to them, all the way down to the German attempts in the '40s to develop a superhuman race, you don't see things working out very well when one certain sector of humanity gets extreme power in terms of the amount of love and empathy extended towards the fellow human beings who might be under their influence or under their power. Timothy: No. And, the problem here is we're also setting the stage for complete technocratic control over society. We're giving technocrats the tools with which to absolutely control every facet of human existence. And, there's no way to avoid that. That's going to happen at some point, but I think in this day and age, we need to ask two fundamental questions before we launch ourselves into this, what I view as a posthuman apocalypse. Ben: Okay. Timothy: And, that is, number one,
what does it mean to be human? What does it mean to be a human being? Is there something intrinsically important about being human? And, number two, should we preserve our humanity? Is there something intrinsically important about preserving our humanity? So, what does it mean to be human? And, based on the conclusion we draw, should we be concerned about preserving our humanity? Are there reasons to be concerned about losing the genetic trademarks that make us human