Ancient Aliens, Fallen Angels, Hidden Secrets Of The Vatican, The Coming Superhuman Race

Ancient Aliens, Fallen Angels, Hidden Secrets Of The Vatican, The Coming Superhuman Race

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Ben: My name is Ben Greenfield. And, on this  episode of the Ben Greenfield Life podcast.   Timothy: It's described in great detail  these vehicles apparently can hover in   place. They can fly at great speeds. They  discharge what appears to be missiles or   lasers. These vehicles are written about in the  Indian epics in the context of historical fact.   They're coming with their technology and with  their knowledge, so they're introducing into   this Iron Age civilization technology  that far surpasses anything we have   today. Ben: Faith,   family, fitness, health, performance, nutrition,  longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and   a whole lot more. Welcome to the show. Alright, folks, it's something I've hinted  

at a couple of times. We've never really  done a podcast about topics like, say,   UFOs or aliens or the Nephilim or anything like  that. But, I have been eating up the content and   the book called "Birthright" by my guests  on today's podcast, Timothy Alberino. And,   he's like the Indiana Jones of lost civilizations  and hidden treasures and legendary creatures.  

For me, as a guy who has grown up in  North Idaho and Eastern Washington,   I've of course always known about the legend of  Bigfoot. But, Tim goes way beyond just Bigfoot and   dives into a whole host of esoteric topics like  alternative history and ancient methodologies,   and architecture giants, cryptids, UFOs, alien  abduction, transhumanism, occult conspiracies,   eschatology, you name it. Tim's got something out  there on it, and he has some fantastic videos on   his website. Obviously, you could go deep down  the rabbit hole, and I am going to put a link   and resources for everything that we talk about,  including Timothy's fantastic book, "Birthright"   if you go to  That's Tim,  

welcome to the show, man. Timothy: Hey, Ben,   thanks for inviting me. Ben: No problem. By the way,   you go by Tim or Timothy? Timothy: Tim's fine.   Ben: Alright, cool. That  saves me a few syllables.   How'd you get into all this, man? Timothy:   Well, I suppose it started when I was 18 years old  and I got kicked out/dropped out of high school   and then I moved to the Amazon  jungle, to the Amazon basin in Peru.   And, that's really where the journey began for me.  By the time I was 19, I was living in the Amazon  

and encountered all kinds of weird things and had  some interesting encounters myself in terms of,   let's call it, some paranormal stuff, but also  became familiarized with some of the legends in   Peru and then of course the megaliths and stories  of giants. And so, that's really where things   began for me was in the Amazon based in the Peru. Ben: The Amazon seems like kind of a random place   to go after getting kicked out of high  school. How'd that actually go down?   Timothy: Well, truth be told, I was kicked out of  high school and then my first attempt at traveling   abroad was Ireland. I had this dream of going  to Ireland. And so, I'll make a very long story  

very brief. I landed in Gatwick, London in  order to go up north to Scotland and cross   over to Ireland. And, me and my buddy had  this whole three-month-long trek planned and   they deported me from Gatwick the next day. Ben: Really?   Timothy: So, first, got kicked out of high school,   then I got kicked out of the United Kingdom. Ben: Were these for similar reasons? I mean,   were you just walking over with a  joint in your mouth or something   like that, or totally different reasons? Timothy: No, no, no. I was never a troublemaker   in any way. I've never did any kind of drugs. I  didn't drink. I would say very straightedge young  

man. In school, I just--that's kind of a different  conversation, but let's say that I wasn't   excited about certain policies in school like  homework. I had my own policy, and that was that   I didn't bring school home. Ben: Yeah.   Timothy: So, the teachers would pass out  homework and I hated that place so much   that I refused to bring it home. And so, I  would just sign my name and turn it back in.  

And, very politely, like I said, I was never  disruptive student, but I passed all my grades but   I did so by the skin of my teeth. But, school  bored me to death for one thing and I wasn't very   enthusiastic about the social interactions and  the environment and the fakery of high school. So,   that was a different situation. Ben: Yeah. And, by the way,   I'm nodding my head like I understand,  but I was homeschooled K through 12. So,  

it's a little bit of a foreign concept to me,  but I think I get it. I'm just wondering if any   of your teachers have had a chance to get their  hands on your big books now and seen your videos.   Timothy: I don't know but that would be  very interesting. But, I got kicked out of   England for other reasons. In fact, the reason  why they kicked me and my buddy out of England   boils down to the fact that they didn't  like the particular immigration officer,   this woman I was dealing with. She was not too  fond of young White American Yankees, male,   I should say young, young White male American  Yankees. That's the way she put it. And so,  

she called me a Yankee. It's the first time I've  ever been called a Yankee in my entire life,   and literally turned us around, put us  on the plane home the next day. And,   how does that get me to Peru? Because when I came  back to the United States, back to Cleveland,   Ohio, well, actually a suburb of Cleveland,  Ohio, Brook Park, Ohio where I grew up in   which I was desperately trying to escape, it  was just the doldrums of suburbia America.   And, I was quite an adventurous lad. And so, when I came back, I was very   depressed. I was distraught, to say the least.  Like, I can't get out of here. And, it just  

so happened my father was a pastor, it just so  happened that there was this Mexican missionary.   He was a Mexican-American missionary to Peru named  Alfonso Felix. And, he happened to be speaking at   my dad's church like the week I came back from  being deported from England. And, my stepmother  

had been to Peru with Alfonso and she said, "Tim,  you need to go to Peru." She saw how depressed I   was from getting ejected from the United Kingdom.  And, she said, "You need to go to Peru." I didn't   really have any desire to go to Peru, but it was  the only option left. The door opened and I ended   up going down with Alfonso for a month or two. And  then, I came back to United States to work for a  

couple of months just to save up enough money  to leave for good. So, it was 18, 19 years old.   Eighteen years old was the transition to prove. By  the time I was 19, I was living there long-term.   Ben: Wow. I'm chuckling as you talk  about the young White male American   Yankee. I feel like that could be a new  pronoun like the YWMA, identify as YWMA.   Timothy: That's right. Yeah.  Nobody really uses the term  

"Yankee." I feel like it's underutilized. Ben: No, no. I mean, the last time I heard   that was when I recommended my sons read Mark  Twain's book, "The Connecticut Yankee and   King Arthur's Court." Great book, by the way,  for people who need a good Mark Twain read.   So anyways, talking about Peru, obviously  elephant in the room here we have all the   news headlines at least at the time that you and  I are recording this about these alien attacks   in Peru. I'm curious, have you returned  to Peru since then? Is that where you're   interested in things paranormal first arose? Timothy: Since this situation that's unfolded   in the jungle with these alleged-- Ben: No, no, well, since you originally   went there with this missionary. Did you  get interested in the paranormal there?   Timothy: Yes, yes. So, I ended up staying in Peru  for a couple of years just wandering around mainly   in the Amazon. I was all over the place, including  way up the river where this incident took place  

recently with the villagers and  the aliens, the alleged aliens.   I was in the Andes as well. I was all  over the place. I was kind of a vagabond.   And then, that's when I had some very interesting  experiences. And then, after that, I went back to   Ohio briefly, back to Cleveland, Ohio, and I ended  up getting married to one of the young ladies in   my dad's church. I think I swore I would never do  by the way. And then, her and I moved to Peru.   Ben: Get married or get married to a church girl? Timothy: Well, I always said, look,   if I'm going to get married, I'm not going to  marry an American woman, especially an American   woman from Cleveland, Ohio, and especially  American woman from Cleveland, Ohio that   happens to be a member if my dad's church. Ben: You're not going to marry a Yankee.   Timothy: Exactly. And, that is precisely  what I did. And then, after we got married,  

we moved together to Peru, and the adventure  continued in Peru for number of years. All total,   I lived about 10 years in the Amazon basin. Ben: You said you had some interesting experiences   there, it sounds like that got you a little  bit interested in this whole paranormal piece,   what were some of those experiences? Timothy: Well,   I guess I should say that one of the  primary motivations to not necessarily   going specifically to Peru but leaving,  leaving this, as I said, the doldrums of   suburbia America was, first of all, I had  this insatiable appetite for adventure.   That was the first thing. I just couldn't  quench it. It was just insatiable. I mean, I  

read through the "Chronicles of Narnia" when I was   10, 11, 12 years old. Then, I devoured "The  Lord of the Rings" when I was a teenager and,   as I said, I just had an insatiable appetite  for adventures. That was part of the equation.   But then, the other part of the equation was  I also had an insatiable appetite to encounter   God. I grew up in church and I had very good  upbringing, by the way. I had very good parents,   grew up in a very healthy environment. And so,  I'm thankful for that. But, I was left with this   desire to have a burning bush encounter  with God. And, I was willing to sacrifice  

everything to attain it. And, I just felt like I  was being drawn into the wilderness, so to speak,   to get away from everything and to get by myself  and to isolate myself somewhere and seek the face   of God intensely for an extended period of time.  And, that's a very long story. But ultimately,   I did do just that in the Amazon, and I had  quite the experience, which is a whole--take   me three hours to explain that. But, let's just  say that for the sake of brevity that my quest  

was fulfilled. Let's just put it that way. Ben: Most of the people I talk to these days   who talk about having a spiritual experience in  the Amazon, they're using entheogenic substances,   ayahuasca or something like  that. Was it similar for you?   Timothy: No, no. I've never touched ayahuasca.  I never even smoked a joint to this day. I mean,   I smoked cigars and pipes, but  it's tobacco, it's not weed.  

Ben: Yeah, yeah. Although down there they snort  that up their nose with the Rapé tobacco. I think   it's a nicotine-based alkaloid in that stuff. Timothy: In the jungle, they smoke a very,   very crude cigarette called a mapacho. They roll  it themselves and it's very harsh and very strong.  

But, there's a lot of ayahuasca. And, I never  want to alter my state of mind. I don't like it.   I don't even like to take pain pills, strong pain  pills. I just don't like the feeling of my mind   being altered in any way. And so, I've always  stayed away from those kinds of substances,   psychedelics, and ayahuasca and those kinds of. Ben: Yeah. Well, I'd be curious for your take on  

that because there's obviously that guy,  Brian Muraresku. I had him on my podcast   a couple of years ago who swears that entheogenic  substances were a core foundational part of early   Christianity. And, a lot of people are using  psychedelics or entheogens, in my opinion,   a very similar way to how they were used  for the purposes of divination, for example,   in scripture referred to as pharmakeia. And, as a part of this, and I would imagine   you've probably come across this yourself,  people report interacting with or seeing   entities and they're often consistent entities  from person to person like some kind of a purple   fairy or a praying mantis or whatever. Timothy: The machine elves, yeah.   Ben: Yeah, the machine elves. What's your  take on that? Do you think these are actual   aliens or angels or demons or something  like that that people are experiencing?   Timothy: Well, my take on this would be  that there's a field of consciousness.  

And, I haven't really spent a whole lot of time  developing this idea of mine, but I think there's   a field of consciousness. I think that all of  us are intrinsically connected to some degree   and that when you take psychedelics, you sort  of tap into this internet of consciousness,   let's call it. And so, that would explain why  people experience the same sort of, do they see   the same sort of things, they have sometimes the  same sort of experiences, both with their positive   and negative trips. So, if you're tapping  into, again, an internet of consciousness,  

if we are all intrinsically connected and not  just us but other conscious entities as well,   then you're dealing with a perceptual reality.  You're not necessarily dealing with a tangible   reality, a physical reality, rather you're  in a perceptual--let's call it a realm,   although I don't really like that word very much.  We're in a perceptual realm in which our minds are   plugged in to this internet of consciousness.  And, that would explain why everyone,   not everyone but why there's so much similarity  in people's experiences and why you can interface   with different kinds of entities and  why people receive similar messages,   why shamans, for example, can  access information regarding plants,   regarding medicinal plants and other things  like that because in the same way that we   access information on the Internet that's  available to everybody who can get online.  

And so, there's something like that in my  estimation happening. We don't understand   consciousness and we are all intrinsically  connected even in the material sense   with quantum entanglement and all of that. There's  something like conscious entanglement as well.   And, that's a gateway. It's a gateway. And,  here's the reason why it is prohibited in   the Hebrew scriptures. Because when you  open yourself up, when you plug in to this   internet of consciousness, as a human being,  you're at a disadvantage. You're in a perceptual  

world that you're not familiar with. You  are not in control at that point. And so,   you're susceptible to all kinds of manipulation  and deception and who knows what else. And,   I think we don't understand it and you're  playing with fire when you subject yourself.   Now, people will say, aren't there benefits to,  for example, low dose psilocybin for patients   who are terminally ill with cancer or something  like that, who when they take some psilocybin,   assuming they have a good trip and  most people do with psilocybin,   that it actually abates the fear of death and  it helps them to accept their terminal illness?   I don't think I would be opposed to that. I  think there's environments in which psychedelics  

might be useful, but I've seen some pretty  dramatic things happen with people who take   ayahuasca. I've seen some people get absolutely  ruined. And, you hear about all the good stories,   but you don't hear the bad ones. And,  the bad ones are pretty dramatic.   I know people who did ayahuasca and suddenly  they've got a visitor. They've got something   that is following them. It's a phenomenon. You  might consider it something like demon possession   where these people suddenly can't shake this  presence. It's like it's attached itself to them  

after ayahuasca. And, this is a real problem  for these people. They go down there to get   detoxed in Tarapoto, Peru, where I spent a  lot of time in the Peruvian Amazon basin.   There's a place called Takiwasi. It's  famous. It's run by some French people. And,   I lived right next to it and it's a detox center,  and they use ayahuasca and they use shamans. And,   I heard some stories from the people who've gone  through the detox. Yeah, they got detoxed off of   an addiction to heroin or something like that.  But now, they're dealing with what appears to be  

something like demon possession. And  so, they traded one problem for another.   And, you don't hear about those cases. Ben: Yeah. I have multiple friends who have   done a lot. And, I think the only kind of,  I guess, decent media that the dark side of   ayahuasca or plant medicine general has gotten is  I think the New Yorker, New Yorker magazine did   a nine-part podcast series on sexual abuse and  stripping the Amazon of its resources, and also   some of these issues with bipolar, schizophrenia  or multiple personality disorder that I think you   and I might suspect could be something like an  entity or a demonic possession or something like   that, that a lot of these people come out of those  experiences with. And, I have multiple friends who  

have had to go through an exorcism-like experience  after coming back from something like ayahuasca.   And, I don't think that kind of like your  reference to psilocybin when used in the proper   context, I don't necessarily think that that  makes those plants or those plant combinations   evil. I think they're just being used in a way  that perhaps God, if you're a creationist or a   Christian perhaps didn't intend their use. I've  used low-dose psilocybin before to crush through   a creative writing day. I think it's fantastic  for something like that as is like an ergo-like   fungus such as LSD and very small doses for a  workout or even something like Rapé or low dose   ayahuasca for hunting to increase sensory  perception, which from my understanding it   was originally used or at least partially used  as hunting medicine in many of those cultures.   And so, I think there's a time  and a place to use these, but   I mean, I'm even to the point where with something  say like a psilocybin dose, which I wouldn't   consider trauma therapy or end-of-life therapy for  something like cancer to be low dose, I think it's   more like a heroic dose of psilocybin that's used  in a lot of the research on that. And, I know I'm  

biased coming from a Christian background, but I  think that even in those cases there should be a   better attempt to come before God to implement  the spiritual disciplines in your own life and   to engage in things like meditation and prayer  and community and worship before you turn to   psilocybin to release something like past trauma. Timothy: Yeah. You're talking about low dosing   on psilocybin, you don't have the agency  or to meet, let's call the mediation of a   medicine man or witch doctor, which changes the  game because some acquaintances of mine were   curanderos or Peruvian witch doctors, Andean witch  doctors let's say. And, I asked them during the   ayahuasca session, "What is it that you're doing?"  Because I've witnessed ayahuasca sessions. I've   never done it myself, but I've watched them. And,  obviously, the medicine men are playing different,  

the curanderos are playing their different  instruments and chanting and so forth.   And, their job according to these  guys who are curanderos who do do   ayahuasca sessions with people regularly --and,  in fact, one of these guys was quite famous.   He said that while our job is kind of  twofold, one, we lead people on this journey   into this experience. We lead them through  this journey. We make sure they're okay.   But also, we are inviting the  guides, we're inviting the   spirit guides, the spirits of the jungle and of  the ancient spirits to come and interact with   these people. And then, he proceeded to describe  what this looks like. And so, they would invoke  

these different entities during the ceremony and  he says that we actually witnessed the entities   and so do the people sometimes who are having the  ayahuasca experience who are under the influence   of the brew. Because you're usually sitting in a  circle, the entities enter the circle and they go   up to each person and they look at them in the  face each one, they examine them and when they   find one that is suitable for whatever it is that  they're looking for, they go into that person.   And, this is what they described to me. This is  what the curanderos described to me, the shamans.  

And so, there's this added component,  which is the mediation of a shaman   which changes the purpose, the direction,  the intention of what you're doing. And,   if you're taking a low dose psilocybin to deal  with depression or something, your intention   isn't to make contact with entities and you're not  doing it through the mediation of a shaman, which   I think that totally changes the environment. Ben: Yeah, I agree. I would say that the use   of those substances is like a nootropic or  even for therapeutical purposes is as you   just allude to far different than their use for  something like divination or say possession. So,   yeah, I think the use and the intention kind  of lies behind the effects, good or bad.   By the way, that field of consciousness,  that universal field of consciousness that   you referred to, obviously some people with  some of these drugs are talking about are able   to tap into with a lot better efficiency. Is  that related to the Akashic record that I've   heard some people talking about like this  idea that the entire history of humankind   is somehow stored in this other dimension and  acceptable and able to be tapped into by witches   or sorcerers or shamans or folks of that nature? Timothy: Maybe. I think there is something to be  

said for the collective memory and experience of  mankind that even genetically, I think there's   probably some genetic memories that we carry  from our ancestors. We certainly carry genetic   components of our ancestors. Biologically,  we bear some of the markers of our ancestors.   And so, it wouldn't surprise me that  our consciousness is somehow affected by   that as well and that you may be able to access  memories, you may be able to access information   through this field of consciousness. But again,  human beings are in terms of our intelligence,   in terms of our ability to navigate  these waters, we're infants and we're   always going to be at a disadvantage when  encountering other entities who are much more,   let's say, efficient and practiced, experienced at  dealing with us than we are at dealing with them.  

We're always going to be at a disadvantage. Ben: Yeah. I think I have actually written   something like that before in an article I wrote  about plant medicine a couple of years ago. Who   are you to think lying in your New York City loft  with your shaman recently certified shaman friend   that you're going to enter into some spiritual  portal and be able to withstand effing around with   entities who have been playing with human being's  brains and minds and bodies for about the past,   10,000 years or whatever. That's an arrogant  assumption, a dangerous one in my opinion.   Timothy: Precisely right. Ben: You've obviously kind   of like alluded to the idea that you believe in  entities or in this other spiritual world. I mean,   correct me if I'm wrong, I get that impression  reading your book as well. But, for illustrative  

purposes, that incident that both of us alluded  to about the Peruvian minors. Do you think that   that's the situation where these are like aliens  or entities that these people were seeing?   Timothy: Well, if we think about this field of  consciousness as an Internet of consciousness,   you and I are accessing the Internet right now,  but we're not inside of the Internet, we are   physical beings simply using this technology  to interface. So, it could be that there are   physical beings on the Earth and off the Earth  who are accessing this field of information, this   internet of consciousness, who are not physically  inside of it. It's just like you and I are in   different locations accessing this technology  interfacing. They're interfacing with us, but   that doesn't mean that they're there. That doesn't  necessarily mean that they themselves are there.   It could be biological beings simply interfacing  with their minds and not actually like some   sort of a spiritual entity. But, I don't  discount the notion of a disembodied entity.  

Obviously, I believe in demon possession and that  those are specifically disembodied beings. But,   those disembodied beings, the condition  of their disembodiment is a curse.   It's not natural, it's unnatural for them. And,  it's a situation that they very much would like   to resolve. It's a torturous state of affairs for  them, a condition that is intolerable. And so,   I would say we're probably dealing with entities  that are actually physical, biological beings   interfacing with us, let's say, telepathically  through this internet of consciousness.   Ben: So, it sounds to me like what I'm hearing  is that in the case, and I don't know a lot   about what happened recently in Peru, you could  probably explain it better than I could. But,  

are you saying that there's the potential here  that whatever these villagers were having to deal   with were spiritual entities that had taken on the  form of some known physical shell or physical body   that they were able to access on earth, like a  human being or an animal or something like that?   Timothy: No. I would say that if indeed  these villagers were encountering   extraterrestrials in their words, then what we're  dealing with are specifically material entities,   physical beings. I don't think that this  is some sort of a supernatural experience,   I think it's very much a physical experience.  I think what we would be looking at in this   case is entities who are in possession  of exceedingly advanced technology.   Ben: So, what's the origin of these  physical beings, like where they come from?   Timothy: There's no way to know for sure, but-- Ben: I guess like where would you say? Because I   think you talk about this a little bit in your  book "Birthright," about potential for these to   be like entities from a whole different, like  these lords of a different realm that are now   present on Earth or something like that. Timothy: Yes. You can have entities that are  

indigenous to planet Earth, that are primordial,  indigenous creatures. That may be Bigfoot,   by the way. A hominid, an ancient hominid that's  been here forever or at least as long as mankind,   if not longer. You can have that. That's one  possibility. Then, you can have entities that   came here at some time from elsewhere. These  would be extraterrestrial beings who arrived to   Earth at some time in the past, and who've taken  up habitation here, who've inhabited the Earth,   probably under the Earth, under the oceans,  and who have been interacting with us ever   since they've been here. "Fallen angels"  would fall into that category for sure,  

but they might also have been here before us.  And then, you have the possibility of entities   that are actively visiting the Earth. So again,  in an extraterrestrial capacity, they're coming   here and doing whatever they're doing, but they're  not from here and they don't live here. Although   I would say that if there's an extraterrestrial  faction visiting the Earth, they probably have   bases here as well. So, just like we would do if  we were visiting Mars, we would establish a base,   an outpost. So, at the very least these  beings would have outposts here. But then,   you also have in the mix, you do have entities  that are disembodied demons specifically   that are in the equation but not necessarily  related to these extraterrestrial entities.  

And, in my book, "Birthright," one of the  first things I do is establish the fact that   the biblical narrative presumes the existence of  extraterrestrials unequivocally. It absolutely   presumes the existence of ETs because these  beings that the Bible ambiguously designates   as angels preexist mankind very clearly so,  they preexist us. They shouted the sons of God,   the bene Elohim shouted for joy when the  foundations of the earth were laid. So, these  

beings, the sons of God, i.e., the angels preexist  mankind. That makes them extraterrestrial because   they even preexist the foundation of the Earth. So, an extraterrestrial simply means a being. And,   if we're talking about a sentient creature,  a being whose provenance is not planet Earth.   So, if you were not created or born on Earth, you  are by definition extraterrestrial, period. And,  

angels certainly fit that description, the  good and bad. And so, this angelic race who I   designated my book as the "elder race" because,  A, they're clearly older than us, and B, they   certainly constitute a race from a civilization,  by the way. They have all the earmarks, all the   trademarks of civilization, of an advanced  extraterrestrial civilization, in fact.   And, I'm just reading practically through the  narrative, the biblical narrative. And, if you  

read it practically and you don't put on your  supernatural spectacles or something like that,   you just read it as you would read anything  else, then these are logical deductions.   And so, you have in play this angelic race,   who I call the elder race, when you talk  about extraterrestrials who are certainly   flying around in our airspace in advanced  aerospace vehicles. They're navigating the   skies over planet Earth in advanced technology.  You would have, at least to some degree, the elder   race would be involved in this activity, good  and bad. I think the bad guys are confined to the   Earth to some extent. That doesn't mean that they  have to stay on Earth but this is where they were   and where they have been for a long time. And, the  good guys would be being dispatched from somewhere  

else and coming here for various reasons. The  kind of reasons that we read about in the Old   Testament, for example, and in the New Testament.  So, it's difficult for Christians to make the   transition from paranormal thought to practical  thought when thinking about these things. But,   when you do make that transition, your paradigm,  you can comfortably accommodate extraterrestrials   into your paradigm without losing your faith.  And, that to me seems to be very important,   especially in this day and age. Ben: Yeah. And, beyond Christian  

historical writings of the Bible,  isn't there a lot of other literature,   including like ancient Indian texts that have  reports of some kind of advanced technology,   particularly advanced flying technology that  humankind has kind of experienced a lot in the   past beyond just like the recent surge of what  appears to be increased activity reported by the   Air Force or some of these sightings of Peru? Timothy: Yeah, the Indian epics talk about   Vimanas, which are flying machines.  And, they describe them in great detail   and they even describe the engine.  It's a mercury engine that operates   by rotating mercury. Again, it's described in  great detail. These vehicles apparently can   hover in place, they can fly at great speeds, they  discharge what appears to be missiles or lasers.   And again, these vehicles are written about in  the Indian epics in the context of historical   fact. These are not necessarily taken as myths  by the Indians rather this is history to them.   So, there are some indication that there  might have been some kind of advanced   aerospace vehicles on Earth in the distant past  that, let's say, human beings were encountering   or perhaps even manufacturing. Ben: Yeah, those Indian writings,  

those are like thousands of years old. And so,  if this technology has been around for that long,   do you think that we've actually inherited some  of this technological knowhow that we now have   or at some point, even, for example, pre-flood or  back to the ancient megaliths or something like   that had inherited such technology? Timothy: Yeah, the Ramayana and the   Mahabharata. These are the two main documents  that we read about these advanced flying   machines called Vimana. But also, within this  epic--and, this is an antediluvian epic.  

Ben: What's that mean antediluvian? Timothy: Antediluvian simply means   before the flood. So, pre-flood, before the  Great Cataclysm, which all major cultures talk   about. They all discuss this Great Cataclysm. Ben: Right. That's not just like Sunday school,   that's like all over the world. Timothy: Oh, no. No, no. This is   ubiquitous around the world. Ben: Yeah.   Timothy: And, most of these cultures specifically  talk about a flood, but it's described variously   all over the Earth. Every primary culture on the  planet has a cataclysm myth. And so, not only do  

these Vimana, rather these Indian epics talk  about Vimana flying craft, they also discuss   in great detail this conflict, this massive war   that occurred. And, the war involved not just  human beings, but it was also the gods. So,   you had the gods with their various armies,  human armies and other creatures involved. And,   they were engaged in this epic conflict, this  war, and that notion that there was a great war,   this incredible war in which advanced  technology was deployed, followed by   a cataclysm that destroyed the Earth and  annihilated every faction involved in this war.   That story is also duplicated all over the Earth. We're all familiar with the story of Atlantis,   for example, and everyone knows that Atlantis  was destroyed in a cataclysm. Okay. But, a lot   of people don't realize that before Atlantis was  destroyed in a cataclysm, it was engaged in war.  

It was expanding its empire. And, Atlantis was,  according to the myth and according to Plato,   Atlantis was founded by Poseidon, by the god  Poseidon who copulated with a human woman named   Plato. She conceived and gave birth to five sets  of twins. And, they were according to some other   sources, these were giants. The kings of Atlantis  were giants. So, there are 10 kings of Atlantis,   and they ruled over seven islands and three  continents. And, these kings of Atlantis, these   demigods ended up going to war with the other  nations. And, Plato says specifically with Athens  

and Athens, which was founded by the  goddess Athena, and the Athenians   were the only military force able to withstand  Atlantis. And so, there was this epic conflict   that was underway, but it was interrupted  by a global cataclysm, which not only   destroyed Atlantis, but also Athens, it  destroyed the whole world. And obviously,   this syncs with the biblical account. So, you find this cataclysm mythos   all over the earth, and it usually involves  floods, earthquakes, and it discusses some sort of   a global conflict, or at least a conflict in which  the gods or the offspring of the gods are involved   and the annihilation of almost all  life on Earth as a consequence of   both the conflict and then the cataclysm. Ben: Well, I mean, if you had a dad who was   a pastor, and I grew up going to the average  evangelical Sunday school, you hear about this   antediluvian period, this pre-flood period and you  basically hear this story, people were really bad   and then God flooded the Earth because people were  really bad and He had to cleanse the earth. And,   it brings to mind, maybe people stealing with  each other and maybe some big orgies and yeah,   some murder and anarchy or whatever. But,  it sounds to me like you're suggesting that  

it goes a little bit deeper than just people  walking around doing bad things to each other.   Timothy: Yes. And this, by the way, was the Hebrew  perspective. Ancient Hebrew cosmology very much   included the narrative that I just unfolded,  and it's found in the book of Enoch, primarily.   By the way, not only the ancient Hebrews but also  during the time of Christ, they were all very much   aware of what I call the Enochian tale. In fact,  Christ alludes to it and he uses a title "Son of   Man" that's not found as a proper title in the  Old Testament, but it is featured extensively   in the book of Enoch in these particular  messianic prophecies pertaining to him.   And so, the ancient Hebrew perspective which  is where we should be deriving our perspective   as Christians if we're going to talk about the  pre-flood world, but most churches don't because   they're simply not well versed in Hebrew  cosmology. And, from the ancient Hebrew  

cosmological perspective, they believe that there  is this particular incident that occurred in which   the sons of God, specifically this hierarchy  called the watchers, this group of entities   called the watchers, descended to the Earth in  the days of Jared. So, this is in a pre-flood   context and they saw that the daughters of  men were beautiful, were comely. This is,   of course, recorded in Genesis 6. But, Genesis  6 is merely alluding to a story that everyone  

already was familiar with, and that probably  came specifically from the Book of Enoch.   And so, these watchers, having seen the daughters  of men, observed them that they were comely,   they lusted after them, they desired to copulate  with them and to produce offspring with them. So,   they descended to the Earth on the summit of Mount  Hermon. They bond themselves by an oath of mutual  

imprecations, because they knew what they were  about to do was a grave transgression. And then,   they descended into the plains around Hermon  and they chose wives from the daughters of men.   I think it was a transaction with the fathers of  these women that they would give mankind knowledge   and help them in creating technologies  from this knowledge. And, in exchange,  

men would give their daughters hands in marriage.  They would authorize their daughters to marry   them. So, there was this Faustian bargain that was  struck. And then, these watchers, they copulated   with their wives. The wives conceived and gave  birth to giants. And then, the giants began to   devour mankind and the technology. The knowledge  of the watchers was causing all manner of havoc   to be unleashed on Earth and also their offspring  were in exceedingly evil and the giants. And,   the empire fractionated. This what I call the  empire of the gods. And, there was this great  

conflict and this was part of their judgment. And,  I'm really just encapsulating the story here. So,   there's this great conflict between the offspring  of the watchers, these giants who were likely   the kings of these disparate nations that they  created. And, they went to battle and they almost   annihilated each other in this Great War, and then  came the ultimate judgment, the flood of Noah.   So, obviously, we're paralleling the Indian epics  and also so many other stories, even Atlantis   here. And, this is how the ancient Hebrews viewed  the pre-flood world. This is not some invention.  

This is exactly how they view the ancient,  the antediluvian world. And so, the fact that   evangelical Christians and pastors don't discuss  it isn't because it's extra-biblical, it's because   they're simply not informed of Hebrew cosmology. Ben: Yeah. And, it is a little bit overwhelming   when you start to think about it. It's  interesting, these technologies that you refer   to. And, I think you have a film, and even though  I read most of the book, "Birthright," where you  

get into the deep literary and historical context  of what you're just talking about regarding the   Hebrew historical understanding of these events  on the plains of Lebanon and these fallen angels,   but many other historical texts as well. But,  you also have this film, I think it's called   "The Technology of the Fallen." So, I know you've  looked into this, what kind of technologies are we   talking about do you think traded hands here? Timothy: Yeah, I did a film series with a guy   named Steve Quayle. We made three  films called the "True Legends."  

And, in regard to the technology, the  way that I view the antediluvian age   is generally speaking, the level of technological  development of mankind was probably something   like the Bronze Age or the Iron Age. But, in the  midst of this Iron Age, let's say civilization,   you had these extraterrestrial entities who  were on the Earth and their hybrid offspring,   and these guys were in possession of advanced  technology and superior knowledge. And so,   the general masses of humanity were not  building flying machines, rather the gods   and their offspring were building these things  and using them to control mankind and to build   their various factions, their various kingdoms.  That's why I call it the empire of the gods.   And, the book of Enoch, by the way, describes 200  watchers and there were 200 watchers who descended   in the days of Jared. So, it wasn't just a few,  it was 200. And, these 200 watchers created their  

own kingdoms on earth. And, this is exactly  what Plato says, by the way, that the gods,   the story of Atlantis begins with the gods  apportioning the Earth among themselves. In   other words, all the gods, all these Greek gods  are dividing the earth among themselves and their   intention is to create their own kingdoms. And so, when you think about all of the  

kingdoms of these gods, collectively, you're  looking at an empire of the gods. And, they   were friendly in the beginning, but they ended  up having conflict and going to war, ultimately.   And so, I think that there was superior knowledge  on Earth to some extent in the antediluvian world,   knowledge that the human race probably wasn't  supposed to have yet and caused all kinds of   calamity for mankind and also technology.  So, if you're going to have these advanced   extraterrestrial entities called the watchers  who are coming from somewhere else, coming to   the Earth, they're coming with their technology  and with their knowledge. So, they're introducing  

into this Iron Age civilization. They're  introducing technology that is far surpasses   anything we have today, let's say, certainly in  regard to their advanced aerospace vehicles and   their weaponry and so forth. So, you would have  a Bronze or Iron Age civilization influenced by   extraterrestrial knowledge and technology. And, what I like to liken it to is the movie  

Stargate. I don't know if you remember the movie  "Stargate" with Kurt Russell back in the '90s.   Ben: I never saw it. No. I never saw it. Timothy: Yeah. So, in the movie Stargate,   they go through this Stargate and then they find  themselves on another planet. And, this planet is   populated by a Bronze Age Egyptian civilization.  And, you have all the Egyptian motifs. And,  

these people are worshipping this god, Ra. And,  Ra happens to be an extraterrestrial. This pyramid   that he lives in is actually, you find out it's  a spaceship. And, the Bronze Age civilization   is just living like a Bronze Age civilization.  They're not themselves in possession of advanced   technology, but Ra and his minions do have  advanced technology. So, they're governing,   they're ruling over this civilization, this  Bronze Age civilization with technology. And,   the people, of course, think that these  are the powers of the gods and so forth.  

So, we might have had something like  that happening in the antediluvian world.   And, in fact, I would wager to guess that that's  exactly what was happening in the antediluvian   world. We had entities in possession of advanced  technology. And indeed, when you talk about from   a biblical context, when you talk about "fallen  angels," and I say quote-unquote because fallen   Angel is a contrivance. That term doesn't appear  anywhere in biblical or extra-biblical text. It's  

a contrivance. Really the way to describe these  entities, these fallen angels, is insurgent sons   of God or rebellious, disobedient sons of God who  have committed an act of insurrection and turned   against the Kingdom of heaven. So, they're the  enemies of God, but they look just like the good   guys, the bad guys and the good guys. There's no  reason to think that they look any different.   So, "fallen angels" aren't these hideous,  grotesque beings with horns and pitchforks and   wings. No, rather they look just like the other  members of their race. I.e., this angelic race,  

the elder race. They would look very much  like us. In fact, we look like them. So,   they would look very human-like and be  quite beautiful, more so than mankind,   although they are exceedingly insidious  and wicked and are the enemies of mankind.   Ben: You don't think they were like  lizard people or dragons or serpents   or stuff like that that some people say, Timothy: No. Although I would discount the   notion that lizard people do exist and maybe  these are also like the Bigfoot creature   but primordial sentient creatures that have  existed on Earth since time immemorial. So,   that's a possibility. I don't necessarily  subscribe to that, but it's certainly within  

the realm of possibility because going back to the  ancient Indians, they also reference these beings   called the Nagas. And, you find this reference all  over the earth as well. The Nagas are a serpentine   race of humanoids that are very ancient and have  been interacting with mankind for a long time. So,   you have this sort of panoply of characters  that show up in the mythos of many different   cultures like, for example, giants. Giants  are ubiquitous. The serpent people are almost   ubiquitous. The sons of God, this angelic race  that looks like us but more beautiful than us,  

they're also nearly ubiquitous  in the legends of these primary   cultures all around the world. Ben: And, maybe similar to what   you were alluding to before, I mean,  maybe their original physical form,   a different realm or whatever was lizard-like or  serpent-like or reptile-like, but they're able to   take on the physical form of a more recognizable  earthly entity or something like that, like a   weird lizard creature inhabiting a human body. Timothy: Well, I was going to say, you have to   keep in mind that there's advanced technology  also in play. So, maybe in 100 years, we'll   be able to create holographic projections, even  change our own appearance holographically. You're   not necessarily changing your biology, you're just  projecting an appearance that is a projection. So,   that's also in play. You could have  holographic technology all over the place  

and that could be in play also in that  incident in Peru. You could have a holographic   projections that appear to be physical things  when in fact they're not. We'll be there,   as I said, probably in about 100 years. Ben: Well, that actually makes me think   because obviously you see like, I don't know,  Graham Hancock or even think you traveled to,   if I'm not mistaken, the high-endian plane in  Peru, in Bolivia to look at the archaeological   evidence of some of these technologies. But,  do you think they could potentially, I don't  

know if this is a conspiracy theory or what, but  like they could potentially exist in their more   complete or less ruined form in places like, I  don't know, the Vatican or something like that?   Timothy: Possibly. Yeah, possibly. I think the  Vatican knows. I have a saying in the tagline   in one of those films that I did with Steve  Quayle that the Vatican knows all the secrets.   And, that appears to be true. The Vatican  Intelligence Agency, which our intelligence  

agencies refer to as The Entity, the reason  why they call it The Entity is because it is   so vast. It is almost all-knowing. It permeates  much deeper than any of our intelligence agencies   and all over the world because the Vatican  is one of the oldest institutions on earth.   So, their intelligence agency is the best  on the planet. Obviously, the Church of   Rome has been operating for a very long time, for  centuries, and has been intricately involved in   almost every single Western nation, if not all,  every Western nation and even some other nations   around the world. In the East, for example,  the Vatican has had counselors, and in fact,   the Jesuits. That's one of the reasons why the  Jesuit order was formulated. The primary reason  

why the Jesuit order was formulated was to combat  Protestantism but also to infiltrate nations. The   Jesuits were the most highly educated agents  of Rome. And so, they served in the councils   of kings all over the world, even in the  East, because they were so highly educated.   And so, imagine that going on for hundreds of  years. That's why the Vatican's intelligence   agency is so well-equipped and so well-versed in  the affairs of so many nations around the world,   and especially as it pertains to, let's say,  ancient secrets. The Vatican archive is immense.  

Off the top of my head, I cannot remember how  large it is. I think it's over a mile long or   something. It's absolutely immense. And, I'm  talking about the secret one under the ground.   It's not secret in the sense that nobody knows  about it, it's secret in the sense that it's   almost impossible to get access to it. And, it's  full of manuscripts, very ancient manuscripts and  

artifacts. And so, I think that were the archives  of the Vatican to be opened, it would demand a   rewriting of history to some extent. Ben: Man, I think that's bigger than   the Smithsonian. Kind of explains what the  best gelato in the world you can find outside   the walls of the Vatican, which I've been  to. They've got all the ancient technology  

secrets to the best gelato. That's crazy. Timothy: That's right. They've got the   secrets to the best gelato. Yeah. Ben: Man. Have you ever been there   to the Vatican or try to get access  to some of these hidden chambers?   Timothy: Oh, yes, multiple times. Ben: Yeah, that'd be interesting.   Yeah. I was asking if you've ever tried  to get access to any of the hidden  

chambers or if that's even a reality. Timothy: No, it's very difficult to get   clearance to go into the archives. Some people  have but only in certain areas. They don't let   you just peruse the archives. They give you access  to particular segments of the archives at a time.   But, my god, I mean, really it wouldn't do  me or you much good because most of what they   have in there is written in Latin and Greek and  Hebrew and Aramaic and who knows what else. So,  

we would be mostly interested in looking at  the artifacts. Does the Vatican, for example,   have the bones of giants? I would say  unequivocally they have the bones of   giants. And, I don't mean some random  femur or something, I think they have   full skeletons of giants, 15-foot giants. Ben: You could you could theoretically do   like a genomic reconstruction with that type of  data of like a fallen angel or a Nephilim or at   least the Nephilim human being combination. Timothy: That's a very good point. And,   I'll bet that's been done. Ben: Well, that's interesting because  

the Vatican because I'm to a certain extent  involved in the antiaging, longevity, and age   hacking industry, and obviously, there tends to be  some overlap between that and transhumanism. And,   the Vatican actually hosted the last huge  antiaging transhumanism longevity enhancing event,   and it kind of makes me wonder if there's actually  some research or some great interest there going   on based on this technology in terms of  potential for decreased human mortality   or even immortality or something like that. Timothy: Oh, I wouldn't doubt it, I wouldn't   doubt it. I think that the transhumanism  is a fundamental part of the new religion,   which is coming, which I write about my book.  And, I think that new religion is going to be,   what's the word I'm looking for here, it's going  to be ushered in and guided by the Church of Rome,   or at least the Church of Rome is going to have a  significant role in crafting the doctrine of this   new religion. And, this new religion is I coined  a phrase in my book called "Apotheotheism." And,   I believe that describes the new religion. Apotheo  comes from the word. It derives from the word  

apotheosis, and apotheosis means the glorification  or deification of man. So, man becoming a god.   And, theism obviously is the belief in the gods.  And so, when you combine apotheosis with theism   and you get apotheotheism, what you're describing  is a scenario in which a religion in which   the existence of the gods is embraced and man  himself is attempting to become like the gods.   That is apotheotheism. It is the belief that  the gods exist and we shall become like them.  

Ben: Yeah. I mean, I'm no conspiracy theorist and  I embrace science and technology, but when I look   at the surge in divination and possession involved  with the increasing necromancy that previously   would have been the realm of priests and is now  available to the common people with artificial   intelligence, genetic engineering, transhumanism,  and a lot of these technologies seem to rise at   the same time, this idea of humans being at the  verge, perhaps to a greater extent than we have   in history of achieving some kind of superhuman  like state seems like it could be a reality.   Timothy: Oh, yes. There's no question about  it. And, we're going to advance quite a bit   in the next decades in regard to genetics,  robotics, artificial intelligence, and   nanotechnology specifically, but also a host of  other technologies that are associated with those.  

But, the technology is being developed  exponentially. We hear a lot about artificial   intelligence because it's the sexiest technology  being developed right now and it's very practical,   it's the most practical right now because we  don't all have access to genetic modification,   but we can all play with artificial intelligence.  We can all go on ChatGPT and use it to write   a report or something like that or go on to  mid-journey and create amazing images through   using artificial intelligence in a matter of 30  seconds. Like I said, that's sort of like the sexy   technology that's apparent to everyone out in  the open. But, what's happening under the radar   is you have nanotechnology being  developed under the radar and you have   genetic technologies being developed under  the radar, which are going to come together.   So, a technologist called this age  that we are currently living in,   they call it the hybrid age. And, the reason why  they call it the hybrid age is because all of  

these various technological streams have been  developing independently. Genetics, robotics,   artificial intelligence, nanotechnology, to name  a few. But, right now, something very interesting   is happening. These technologies are converging.  So, you can imagine these streams converging into   a river, and this convergence, they're coming  together so you're going to be able to combine   artificial intelligence with nanotechnology,  with genetic modification, with robotics,   which includes cybernetics. When you combine these  technologies together, what you have effectively  

is the power to literally remake our biology and  whatever image we see fit. So, we will literally   be able to redesign human biology, and indeed  not only redesign human biology but supersede   to evolve ourselves into something other than  human beings is what I'm trying to say, to become   posthuman. We will have the power to manipulate  the next step in our directed evolution and create   something other than a human being, a posthuman  that can no longer really be described as human.   Ben: Yeah. And, if you believe that human beings  are inherently good, I don't think that's scary   of a notion. It's kind of cool actually. But,  if you look at what was likely going on back  

when the Nephilim or these fallen angels who  bred with humankind or ruling the world in   terms of the sectoring of the Earth and human  beings serving as servants and slaves to them,   all the way down to the German attempts  in the '40s to develop a superhuman race,   you don't see things working out very well when  one certain sector of humanity gets extreme   power in terms of the amount of love and empathy  extended towards the fellow human beings who might   be under their influence or under their power. Timothy: No. And, the problem here is we're   also setting the stage for complete technocratic  control over society. We're giving technocrats the   tools with which to absolutely control every facet  of human existence. And, there's no way to avoid   that. That's going to happen at some point, but  I think in this day and age, we need to ask two   fundamental questions before we launch ourselves  into this, what I view as a posthuman apocalypse.   Ben: Okay. Timothy: And, that is, number one,  

what does it mean to be human? What  does it mean to be a human being? Is   there something intrinsically important  about being human? And, number two,   should we preserve our humanity? Is there  something intrinsically important about   preserving our humanity? So, what does it mean to  be human? And, based on the conclusion we draw,   should we be concerned about preserving  our humanity? Are there reasons to be   concerned about losing the genetic  trademarks that make us human

2023-09-24 17:15

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