2023 06 29 Identity SIG Call

2023 06 29 Identity SIG Call

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Char Howland: Hello! Hello! Vipin Bharathan: By, sure! Char Howland: Hello! How are you, too? Bret Michael Carpenter: Good! Vipin Bharathan: Right. Char Howland: I'm glad to hear it. Char Howland: I'm not sure we've met Brett. It's great to have you on the call. Where are you based? Rochester, Michigan.

Char Howland: Very nice. Bret Michael Carpenter: I'm in a smartphone. Char Howland: what does that mean? Bret Michael Carpenter: I'm being incubated. Char Howland: I'm in a business incubator. Char Howland: Great Char Howland: can probably wait just a bit to get started.

Bret Michael Carpenter: We heard about W. 3.org at all. Char Howland: I'm not sure I have. Could you say more? Bret Michael Carpenter: let me just put it in the chat. Char Howland: Thank you. Char Howland: Thanks for sharing that. Bret Michael Carpenter: Yeah, hopefully. It helps.

Bret Michael Carpenter: I'm sure. Where are you located? Char Howland: I'm located in Denver, Colorado. Bret Michael Carpenter: I have a business partner in Wyoming. Char Howland: Oh, nice. Yeah. It's a beautiful part of the country. Bret Michael Carpenter: Yeah. that's where all the water is where he is. Char Howland: yeah, we don't have so much of that here in Denver. Unfortunately.

Vipin Bharathan: Well, New York City can be beautiful. Char Howland: Are you right in the city with it. Vipin Bharathan: Yes. Bret Michael Carpenter: What? What part? What city are you in New York? Oh.

Vipin Bharathan: that's a recent thing, right? Bret Michael Carpenter: I thought one time it was mentioned that you were up early Bret Michael Carpenter: on your time. You and I are. You and I are in the same time. Zone. Vipin Bharathan: Yeah, I'll probably Vipin Bharathan: this means 40'clock, 60'clock. Whatever. Char Howland: Which borough do you live in, then? Are you on in Manhattan? Vipin Bharathan: Yes, I'm in Harlem, which is Vipin Bharathan: Upper Manhattan Char Howland: very nice. Vipin Bharathan: and behind me is a shock from Central Park, which is only about 10. Vipin Bharathan: My house. Char Howland: Oh, well.

Char Howland: hi, John, no! Worries. Vipin Bharathan: 1 s I'm going to pause the recording and then get a Vipin Bharathan: anyway. Char Howland: So I am having a problem second, to live stream. I'm gonna let you take it over shar, and then I will upload the video to Youtube after the meeting. Char Howland: There you go. Char Howland: Wonderful. We'll go ahead and get started then. Char Howland: thanks. Everyone for joining the meeting. And it looks like we are recording. Welcome to the Hyper Ledger identity Special interest group call for June 20, ninth. Thanks for joining us today. I'm

Char Howland: Shah Holland, A, a co-chair of this group with Vipin, and Tim. We're on the call, and today on the agenda, we have our regular working group status updates, and then we'll hear a We'll hear about the world economic Forum paper titled Re. Imagining digital id from fippin. So really, looking forward to that. Bret Michael Carpenter: are we? Are we writing anything with that paper, Griffin? Vipin Bharathan: How do you mean. Bret Michael Carpenter: I mean, are we going to be adding content to the paper or Vipin Bharathan: no? It's it's it's been published June Vipin Bharathan: 23, is the Bret Michael Carpenter: are we going to be writing a white paper here? Vipin Bharathan: Yeah, I you know we had started a white paper Vipin Bharathan: a long time ago.

Vipin Bharathan: The the ecosystem was still developing, and it was growing a lot. Vipin Bharathan: So at that time Vipin Bharathan: we decided to give it the pause. It was kind of spinning out of control. There was so many different Vipin Bharathan: ways in which we could have gone Vipin Bharathan: so I think we probably should refocus on that Vipin Bharathan: agenda item later on in the year. Vipin Bharathan: Yeah. Done the

Vipin Bharathan: in the presentation that I'm giving, there will be a link to that particular paper. Vipin Bharathan: and then I know your name is on the list of people who contributed to the paper. Dan, back on him who's just posted a chat Vipin Bharathan: to the paper, anyway. Vipin Bharathan: I don't want to hold up shar and Vipin Bharathan: or Char Howland: no worries, no worries.

Char Howland: Yeah, I I we've had a. Char Howland: Our groups have recently merged and transitioned to be a special interest group rather than working groups. so we're more focused on the community news and and presentation aspect of it. But we could absolutely form a task force to work on a white paper, and I think that would be a really useful thing to do so. but that will Char Howland: continue on with the introductions of the call. This is a Char Howland: Linux foundation call. So we have the antitrust policy written out here that we are following, and then as well, the hypothetical code of conduct which is linked here.

Char Howland: if anybody would like to put their name on the attendees list, for on the meeting page that would be wonderful. And Char Howland: now it'd be a great time if anybody would like to introduce themselves and talk a little bit about Char Howland: I think you want to share your your interest in Char Howland: in the space, so feel free to grab the mic or raise your hand. Bret Michael Carpenter: go ahead. Pet.

Bret Michael Carpenter: so my name is brett, carpenter Bret Michael Carpenter: and I'm the managing partner, operator of Craigco, situated in the city of Rochester, Michigan. Bret Michael Carpenter: on the campuses of Oakland University. Bret Michael Carpenter: My focus is to Bret Michael Carpenter: have autonomous embedded systems. and the first low hanging through is identity. Bret Michael Carpenter: One of the things that our group will be focused on Bret Michael Carpenter: is Lidar and Geo spatial information Bret Michael Carpenter: and embedding our our proprietary intellectual property Bret Michael Carpenter: in that technology. Char Howland: Great. Thank you so much for joining the call. We're we're glad you're here.

Char Howland: Where did anybody else like to introduce themselves? Alfonso Govela: Yes, I I'm Alfonso Govela: from Hyper Ledger and Latino America. regional chapter. I've been part of the Id working group for for a while, and I'm glad to be back here in this new form. Alfonso Govela: Thank you Char Howland: absolutely. Thanks for joining Char Howland: right. If anybody else would like to introduce themselves, feel free to jump in. Char Howland: We also have a a few announcements upcoming speakers on this call. our next call. Char Howland: I have Char Howland: Stefan moy talking about Eid 2.0 and the European wallet initiative. Char Howland: Next to after that we'll be on Char Howland: AI and SSI, and the call after that will be on credential migration, and for wallet, wallets and credential providers. So lots of lots of interesting topics ahead.

Char Howland: the then, I I know you sent this link call for papers out in our our email thread. Did you wanna give a a brief verbal announcement about that as well? Vipin Bharathan: Not really. It's everything. Is there. So Char Howland: great yeah. Link? Link is there. We also have Char Howland: note about the hyper ledger areas, framework Javascript. Char Howland: workshop that's happening on July eleventh. And here's links to more details and registering another hyper ledger workshop

on running areas in the browser with hyper ledger noncreds on July eighteenth. Char Howland: there's the link as well to Char Howland: to join that. Char Howland: So are there any other announcements, introductions, or anything anybody would like to say before we Char Howland: head into the working group updates? Char Howland: All right. Char Howland: So we'll start with for the pipe led your indie contributors working group We met last week. Our our last call was spend Char Howland: discussing the indie summit which we just wrapped up Char Howland: 11 min ago that this was a a 3 h event. to get everyone involved in indie together to talk about how they're using indie? What is the future of Indie? What do we want to add to it and improve about it? How can we increase those development contributions so full of very, very interesting discussions and important information exchange. Bret Michael Carpenter: So I have a excuse me, I have a question about that.

Bret Michael Carpenter: So in in a technical Bret Michael Carpenter: overview. Bret Michael Carpenter: Are we talking about hyper ledger fabric integrating with Indie Char Howland: that came up briefly on on the call today? I think the context in which it was talked about is that Char Howland: Indie, compared with with hyper ledger fabric is is very Char Howland: much purpose built for identity. And so with the way that the among among the people on on the call today. I think that that is the focus. So Char Howland: but what about? Bret Michael Carpenter: We would be interested in integrating basin with hyper, ledger fabric Bret Michael Carpenter: and ethereum. Any any of those ideas? Char Howland: I I so I guess the the call mainly focused on Indie as as the the center piece. so all yeah, I it. It's it's a good question, though. If if anybody else on the call knows Char Howland: knows anything about that, feel free to jump in. But Char Howland: yeah, not to share on that right at the moment.

Sean Bohan: Yeah, I mean, this is Shawn from Hyper ledic bases in a theorem client. Sean Bohan: and in regards to base you interacting with fabric. I know there are some folks working on that. You probably the best place to go would be the hyper ledger discord. But, as Shar just said, the the conversation this morning was specific to indie and what are the other options. What does that ecosystem look like? Since it's a really great chat, it was recorded. And I believe they're gonna post it at some point. after the recording encodes. Very good. Daniel Bachenheimer: and the only other thing that I could add is, you know, when Indie was developed. Daniel Bachenheimer: it was. It was all, basically all in one. And then they spun off of the wallet and agent components into Aries and the the crypto components were spun off separately. And, as was said, the it, it was purpose built for identity. Indie was. And then Daniel Bachenheimer: again Aries was derived to to better support identity functions. Now, folks have built identity systems that use fabric. but yeah, you kind of have to.

Daniel Bachenheimer: you know, twist and turn to to make it work. anyhow, that's that's the only thing I wanted to add. Bret Michael Carpenter: right? It was technical, right? Bret Michael Carpenter: What? What were you saying? Sorry, sorry, Brett. Think about Bret Michael Carpenter: high level. Sean Bohan: but also the interoperability standpoint. We, you know, the initial vision, and it's still is the decentralized identifiers. Sean Bohan: If you, if you decentralize the identifier should work for the user. Whether I get a did from an Etherium network or from a fabric network, or from an indie network, or from checked, or somewhere else. Those are my Ds living in my wallet. I should be able to use them as I see fit.

Sean Bohan: there! There are some things like there's some competitors to indie that don't Sean Bohan: work with like Didcom. And there's some competitors in that don't do certain things. But but overall, the community is working on being as standards compliant as possible, so that so that whatever flavor you choose to build on, you are not locking that user out of an experience, or or or you know those verifiable credentials, or that did come home. Bret Michael Carpenter: And just as just as a point of reference, my, my focus is contracting with the military. So that would have you know, many different regions. Bret Michael Carpenter: And so that complexity is something that I'm focused on. Sean Bohan: Years ago, 2,015 or 2,016 Sean Bohan: and also from a.gov perspective. If you want to look at what's what the BC. Gov team has been doing with not just PC, but the pan-canadian trust framework folks have been doing it. It's it's it's pretty impressive, self sovereign identity. Into that Gov context Bret Michael Carpenter: definitely.

Bret Michael Carpenter: the Central Bank of Canada is pretty impressive with all of that initiative. Char Howland: Yeah, thanks for thanks for your question on that, Brett. Char Howland: let's see. So in the areas working group they've been meeting every week. Has anybody been able to to attend any of those recent meetings who would like to give a quick report.

Char Howland: It looks like they've been merging in our Cprs as well talking about Char Howland: marketing mediators, and did peer so. What's going on there. How about as by fold? Anybody in this group attend that one? Char Howland: See? The notes didn't get into too many specifics. But I think there talking about issues, pr. general updates and and future planning Char Howland: for the area Scottish and Python user group meeting. Char Howland: met this week. so so talking about the Re release candidates. the next release candidate for occupy release. 0 8 2 Char Howland: as well embedding an oncuts rust into acupy.

Char Howland: talking about the the Aries Mediator Service. in DC, or just open source. socket, doc, which is a really important piece of that. So that's exciting. Char Howland: did pier 2 and 3 as well. talking about what it. One of the Char Howland: one of the most complicated parts of using acupy is the startup parameters, or that that can be a a barrier to entry. And so an idea about a goody startup parameters, editor.

Char Howland: and then as well emerging, and pr Char Howland: for Javascript. Anybody attend that meeting? Char Howland: So they've been having a lot of discussions about relationship to the open wallet foundation. did come v. 2, while an Api as well. Revocation documentation. Char Howland: So that's going on there. Hyper, ledger Orsa don't expect there to be Char Howland: meetings there any more with the the end of life status Char Howland: And then in the non-creds hyper ledge and on coulds working group meeting anybody attend that one. Char Howland: So they finalize the release for a non-credit 0 1 0 Char Howland: had a report from the Oncuts workshop mentorship updates Char Howland: and then as well, talking about the and on credit specification and new revocation purchase. So what's going on in those working groups? Anything else? Hyper Ledger related anybody to Char Howland: bring up Char Howland: So, moving on to the trust over IP Foundation.

Char Howland: Don't believe There's been an all Members meeting more recently than than our last meeting. same with the Communications Committee, but feel free to jump in. If if I'm wrong about that Char Howland: in the governance stack Char Howland: working group. they've been talking about the tip. Glossary Workspace sounds like this is a document primarily aimed at helping trust registry and trust spanning protocol specs. within the technology stack working group. Char Howland: and then as well, the governance framework demand curves. So talking about Char Howland: adoption increasing and and seeing that digital wallets and verify the credentials are starting to Char Howland: make some serious progress in the markets.

Char Howland: Let's see. in the technology stack working group. Char Howland: they've got a bunch of task forces here. The technology Architecture Trust Registry trust branding protocol. Char Howland: A/C DC, AI and metaphor. and then a new one. Credential exchange protocol task force. So

Char Howland: lots going on in in each of those. Does anybody Char Howland: have any updates on on the working group or any of those specific task forces? Bret Michael Carpenter: I have a statement. Bret Michael Carpenter: I think I I think in regards to Metaverse. Bret Michael Carpenter: I think that the model of lidar and geospatial engineering Bret Michael Carpenter: and electromagnetic computation Bret Michael Carpenter: is something that should Bret Michael Carpenter: you know, be more of a paramount Bret Michael Carpenter: then just having. Bret Michael Carpenter: and I'm not trying to speak disparagingly against medical, but more like a cartoon. Bret Michael Carpenter: So that's my that's my my contribution of thought Bret Michael Carpenter: is that you know, instead of having a metaverse, that, having lidar and geospatial Bret Michael Carpenter: and artificial intelligence would Bret Michael Carpenter: probably be more advantageous to corporations Char Howland: in the corporate world.

Char Howland: Yeah, thank you for Char Howland: for that point. there's link here to their their meeting page and Daniel Bachenheimer: I can add a couple of bits there. So in the last aon meteor. We had a a guest from a research at at Berkeley. And he he was speaking to Daniel Bachenheimer: the the ability to derive.

Daniel Bachenheimer: The primary is in the most accurate derivation from hand and head movements that are broadcast is Daniel Bachenheimer: is like the unique identity. So his his research, so that he could with a high degree of accuracy, uniquely identify the the, the person based on hand and head movements, Daniel Bachenheimer: you know, in a gallery of 50,000 which is kind of scary, because, as I learned from the call Daniel Bachenheimer: you, the avatars are rendered on the receiving end, not on Daniel Bachenheimer: not on. You know the the user. And you know. So if I'm interacting with 6 entities on the metaverse. They're getting my basically my raw biometric information. Bret Michael Carpenter: And and and and just as of just as a blurt, I'm an Ibm partner, and we have really strict policy against spatial recognition. Daniel Bachenheimer: Yeah, yeah. Daniel Bachenheimer: Yeah. Well, you said spatial, not facial. Right?

Bret Michael Carpenter: I no facial. Daniel Bachenheimer: Okay, yes, there's no facial recognition involved. It's prohibited in Ibm, yeah, yeah, no, I I I get that. I remember that. the this is Daniel Bachenheimer: behavioral by me. So Iso defines by metrics is the automated recognition of individuals using Bret Michael Carpenter: biological or behavioral characteristics. So these are behavioral characteristics. The way I move. the you know gate recognition is a behavioral. Your key stroke dynamics is a babe. I just I just. I'm thinking that I might get in trouble with Ibm so Bret Michael Carpenter: with. With that I'll I'll reach out to them and see what they say.

Daniel Bachenheimer: Yeah, can you provide that link to me? Because I don't think I can get it from where I'm standing. Yeah, well, I I can. I'll look for it. But, as Char said, the the meeting minutes are are in the link, and within the meeting minutes is the the link to Daniel Bachenheimer: the Daniel Bachenheimer: the the research is a research document. So thank you for that. Daniel Bachenheimer: So? So that's what was interesting. The then, from that same document, with less precision, he was demonstrating that again, just through hand gestures and head movements that were broadcasting all over the freaking place. in the Meta verse. I call it the Mega curse. I'm I'm not an adopter. Daniel Bachenheimer: Also can can glean about 2 dozen other factors like your age, your sex? you know, your ethnicity, you know. Now it's less accurate than your identity. you uniqueness. But he was able to derive

Daniel Bachenheimer: those factors. Daniel Bachenheimer: we like with 60 or so percent. Actually, according to this study. So I thought that was pretty interesting. Yeah, that is interesting. My my treatment is that this is applicable Bret Michael Carpenter: to you know, to the corporate world and dealing with asset management. Bret Michael Carpenter: And so Bret Michael Carpenter: that that's my focus with with this meeting is to Bret Michael Carpenter: have more of an you know an id. Bret Michael Carpenter: for let's say I be a maximo to be able to integrate that into Bret Michael Carpenter: asset management. Bret Michael Carpenter: And I just and I just think that when you have, let's say a lidar or a geospatial. You have something concrete. You know that that building is there because of the satellite telemetry.

Bret Michael Carpenter: you know. So it's not something that you could in a court of law essentially dispute. If if you're having Bret Michael Carpenter: problems, you know, with asset, exchange or transaction. Bret Michael Carpenter: So that's my treatment.

Daniel Bachenheimer: Very good. Daniel Bachenheimer: yeah. The met you just we just had the sorry. Just going up the the Where is the credential exchange? task force? so we're trying to define the different Daniel Bachenheimer: it it it it the most use, the most popular exchanges. what they are, what their pros are cons or things like that. So that was in the Daniel Bachenheimer: the Daniel Bachenheimer: in the Daniel Bachenheimer: yeah, okay, there it is. that that task force. So that yeah, that kicked off today. Matthew does a great job. he's got some great slides in there. with with links. And you know one of the drivers was, you know the the the various open id for verifiable credential issuance. Verifiable presentation. But Daniel Bachenheimer: yeah, would. but all the you know, the other ones that are kind of in play again. Where where could they? Should they be you so that it's Bret Michael Carpenter: So decision makers could decide what's best for I mean, I really think that credentialing is that is a the new space economy.

Bret Michael Carpenter: But you know. Bret Michael Carpenter: that's that's my Daniel Bachenheimer: yeah. My perception. Bret Michael Carpenter: Yeah, probably. Why, we're we're all here. yeah.

Bret Michael Carpenter: So what are we doing as far as our architecture? Are we? Bret Michael Carpenter: we focused on telecommunications, or we're just focused on Bret Michael Carpenter: you know, Indie. And and the program. Bret Michael Carpenter: the the various hyper ledger. Daniel Bachenheimer: well, so, well, so yeah. So we're chari is God necessarily is trust over IP. So now trust over. IP's mission is It coincides with some of the hyper ledger Daniel Bachenheimer: projects there. But T over IP is is really identity focused. And you know. And it's it's charter is basically saying, look, when the Internet was established, There was no it it it had

Daniel Bachenheimer: point to point, you know. I want to need to get from A to B and and the networking that's involved to do that is covered, but not the trust. We don't know, you know, at the other end, so trust over IP is the main mission is, well, how do we get trust Daniel Bachenheimer: into that IP stack Daniel Bachenheimer: And so, yeah, you could go to. Yeah, if you haven't trust over IP org and the the we do have an architecture framework. I won't dwell on it here, but basically it divides it up into 2 halves for layers. There's, you know the technology stack. And you. That's why it says Daniel Bachenheimer: at the top of the screen here, technology stack working group, where there's technology on one side, governance or human on the other side. So in order for all this shit to work right, we need. Well, that's the whole thing. I I think that's part of the space economy. I mean, that is the new wild frontier.

Bret Michael Carpenter: I mean. Attorneys are like they, I mean, they they just set up. I I I'm having riders block. Bret Michael Carpenter: But they just set up an oversight committee. Bret Michael Carpenter: But yeah. that's the arena. I think that we're in. Sean Bohan: Yeah. And if you get the overall decentralized identity space hyper ledger host code projects like indie Aries and on credits Sean Bohan: just over IP is focused on governance and policy. Sean Bohan: you've got diff decentralized identity foundation, which is really focused on implementation. And there's a little bit of I I believe they're doing some standards work as well. I think we've got a couple of more updates to come. And then you've got places like the W Threec where standards around decentralized identifiers and verifiable credentials are coming out of. Yeah, I put the W. The the purpose of this Sig is to be pan identity. It's not just hyper ledger projects. We want to talk about everything that's going on in the ecosystem

Sean Bohan: and shore, and Tim and and Phippen are doing a great job of programming. Bring folks from the outside. Folks who are doing things with with hyper ledger technologies, but to to share. So we can cross-pollinate these ideas and and and push the the ecosystem forward. Yeah, thank you for defining that for me, doors. Char Howland: Absolutely. Thanks for this updates and and discussion on that. Char Howland: All right, the utility found. Recoup. it's on. hey? This working with the Governance architecture task force. Still, I believe. Char Howland: the ecosystem foundry group. Anybody attend that one at their meeting last week? Char Howland: It's like they've been talking about the digital trust survey, digital ecosystem components and learning pathways. Ap cyber presentation.

Char Howland: How about the concepts and terminology working group? Anybody attend that one. Char Howland: So it looks like they're Char Howland: still working on the terminology engine v. 2. Viewing at the new T. No party driven actor model. Char Howland: So any other T. IP announcements or progress updates. Char Howland: All right. Moving on to the Char Howland: the diff. The decentralized Identity foundation did come working groups since they meet on the first Monday of every month. We've reported on their recent meetings sounded as well that their next meeting will not be on July third, the first Monday of July, but rather the second Monday of July.

Char Howland: the if did come users group It looks like in their most recent meeting. They talked about Char Howland: demos and protocols socket, doc as well, which is Char Howland: like I mentioned earlier, a a web socket relay service that these are recently open source. Char Howland: and then as well to come marketing. Char Howland: Did anybody attend the the Diff Interoperability group or the IoT Special interest group? Char Howland: Looks like they both had recent Char Howland: meetings. There was a presentation interoperability group on user adoption and interoperability which looks interesting. Char Howland: any other diff updates. Char Howland: And for the W Threec. Standard.

Char Howland: I. As far as I can tell, I I couldn't find more recent meeting notes from the did working group in the Community Credentials group. They've had recent traceability call and verifiable credentials for education task force. does anybody have other updates Char Howland: for the W. 3 C. Standard working groups or Char Howland: general working group updates or announcements. Char Howland: All right. With that I think we can Char Howland: conclude the working group status updates portion of the call, and I can go ahead and turn it over to vip in for for Char Howland: exploration and discussion of the W. Ef. Paper. But what would you like to screen share?

Vipin Bharathan: Yes. Char Howland: great. Vipin Bharathan: You can see my screen, I hope. Char Howland: Okay. Vipin Bharathan: I'm going to go into slides remote. So I'm since I'm working on a Vipin Bharathan: laptop, I won't be able to see anybody else's comments or anything.

Vipin Bharathan: so if anybody wants to bring it to my attention, please Vipin Bharathan: show up on audio, and either question me or tell me some Vipin Bharathan: stuff about what's happening Vipin Bharathan: So this is well based on I Vipin Bharathan: well, let's say a rather shallow reading of this Vipin Bharathan: paper. Vipin Bharathan: because Vipin Bharathan: we had to scramble to put together this presentation. Vipin Bharathan: since the person was supposed to do this today is postponed. Vipin Bharathan: The later Vipin Bharathan: and I had also contacted the Aidan slayman who was the Vipin Bharathan: a lead author. Vipin Bharathan: and I know Eden for a while, because I was involved in the it. 2,020 discussions. Vipin Bharathan: And I also saw in the paper that a lot of input was Vipin Bharathan: from the it Vipin Bharathan: So I'm familiar with enough of the concept to be dangerous.

Vipin Bharathan: so basically, it's a, it's a swift pass through this background and summary. And for the first time. Vipin Bharathan: a world organization, maybe not for the first time, but still it's quite interesting that they are advocating for decentralized Id. Vipin Bharathan: Finally. Vipin Bharathan: then, of course, they go into the challenges and the various to adoption of that decentralized Id.

Vipin Bharathan: and they come up with some recommendations. Vipin Bharathan: and number 6. The remarks on the next, on next steps is my Vipin Bharathan: sort of contribution to this to this Vipin Bharathan: debate or this Vipin Bharathan: plus in getting the Vipin Bharathan: getting this decentralized id into a global arena. Vipin Bharathan: so the first thing, of course, is the Id overview what is decentralized id Vipin Bharathan: various implementation recommendations. Vipin Bharathan: I don't want to. dwell on this. Vipin Bharathan: you know this. This is the summary from which I've taken from the paper itself. but the identity overview is very important, I believe, because here we are focused

Vipin Bharathan: very focused on the identity technology. And I think some of the questions that Brett asked. For example, what is the integration between Aries or indie and fabric is relevant. Because Vipin Bharathan: if you are going to put a Vipin Bharathan: put something out in production in the real world Vipin Bharathan: for any purpose. Vipin Bharathan: it has to have an identity component. Vipin Bharathan: And it's important that identity component is well integrated with, Vipin Bharathan: you know. Vipin Bharathan: mostly through standards, interoperability and other Vipin Bharathan: methods with the component itself, and I believe we don't spend enough time on this topic. And that was the focus of the old identity working group. But I am going to bring, you know. Bring that perspective in here, not just the the raw updates of Vipin Bharathan: different identity Vipin Bharathan: components and efforts, but having a Vipin Bharathan: a much more systemic view of the whole thing. That means, how does that entity in this ecosystem? Why is that entity, an important foundational

Vipin Bharathan: concept. Vipin Bharathan: and something to solve in a foundational way. Vipin Bharathan: so that's you know, even, they say, but one of the UN some sustainable development goals Vipin Bharathan: but unfortunately, it is a development goal 16.9, Vipin Bharathan: which means it's the ninth Vipin Bharathan: sub paragraph with the sixteenth goal when there are 17 goals. But the first goal is, for example.

Vipin Bharathan: abolish. Vipin Bharathan: I mean, there is a timeline to it, too, which is basically that it's Vipin Bharathan: 2,020 not a first goal is abolish poverty, for example, for Vipin Bharathan: at least reduce poverty by 50%, and poverty is defined as making less than a dollar 25 a day. Vipin Bharathan: which you know. may sound shocking to some of us, but Vipin Bharathan: doll of 25 goes a long way in certain places, but still, you know, you can go to bed. Hungary. Vipin Bharathan: You may not have a place to sleep. Vipin Bharathan: and so on, and so forth.

Vipin Bharathan: But we have shown through the example of India, for example, that you know, although implemented recently, it was started Vipin Bharathan: more than 15 years ago of the on our Vipin Bharathan: id, even though you know there are lots of things to Vipin Bharathan: criticize has Vipin Bharathan: resulted in major transformation Vipin Bharathan: of even the first Vipin Bharathan: Sdg, which is reduce poverty by Vipin Bharathan: making sure that benefits flow directly to the recipients without the middle men siphoning off stuff Vipin Bharathan: which is a, you know, a feature Vipin Bharathan: off the distribution Vipin Bharathan: in the developing world. Vipin Bharathan: then it says, 850 million worldwide have no identity. And there's an identity life cycle registration issue and use and management Vipin Bharathan: registration differentiates between 2 separate types of identity. One is a

Vipin Bharathan: genesis identity or a very vital identity, which is a government identity. First Vipin Bharathan: and foremost Vipin Bharathan: is a birth certificate. So Vipin Bharathan: of some sort an acknowledgment that you were born. Vipin Bharathan: You are alive, and you are a citizen of Vipin Bharathan: on 3 x Vipin Bharathan: 850 million people have no identity, which basically means they don't even have a birth certificate, I believe.

Vipin Bharathan: you know that they can access and control. Vipin Bharathan: So the Vipin Bharathan: the paper goes into details of the registration issuance use and management Vipin Bharathan: mostly focused on methods and other ideas that we are familiar with Vipin Bharathan: in the developing world. But maybe not. Vipin Bharathan: very widely. you know, if it's 850 million worldwide have no identity and 1.5 to 2 Vipin Bharathan: 1 billion people Vipin Bharathan: are starving below 1.2 5 Vipin Bharathan: dollars per day. Vipin Bharathan: Then we can talk all we want around here. But and even in support, you know. Sort of

Vipin Bharathan: a Vipin Bharathan: it was to a child for the rich people gathering in doubles. But Vipin Bharathan: it is Vipin Bharathan: a very influential Vipin Bharathan: organization. Vipin Bharathan: So all this stuff I just talked about So Vipin Bharathan: in order to look at Vipin Bharathan: the 16.9 stg. Which is to provide a legal identity Vipin Bharathan: including both registration by 2,020. I think it is a lawable goal. But I don't think it's going to happen.

Vipin Bharathan: because there are real gaps. real problems Vipin Bharathan: And of course, it's a development goal, not only as a standalone development goal, but it dissolved for a purpose Vipin Bharathan: to Vipin Bharathan: the participating banking finance for gender equality, because women are not even recognized as people somewhere Vipin Bharathan: in some places Vipin Bharathan: migration, labor market opportunities and so on so forth. Vipin Bharathan: There is a political threat which is a lack of identity has brought forward in India. I don't know how familiar you are with

Vipin Bharathan: what's happening in the northeast, you know some, for example, they have the Vipin Bharathan: if you cannot prove Vipin Bharathan: that you were. You know you, your father, grandfather. Vipin Bharathan: your grandmother. Somebody was a citizen of India in 1,947. Then you are considered not a citizen of India which is kind of observed Vipin Bharathan: but that has resulted in the Vipin Bharathan: exclusion of a lot of people from. Vipin Bharathan: and actually as a political threat in in terms of Vipin Bharathan: deporting them into Bangladesh somewhere else. And it's also a racial and sort of a religious. So Vipin Bharathan: warfare. Vipin Bharathan: So all these are arising out of identity Vipin Bharathan: which we may not be aware of. We are only, you know, focused on our problems.

Vipin Bharathan: But Vipin Bharathan: these items are Vipin Bharathan: very important, and it's highlighted to a certain extent in that. we have paper. Vipin Bharathan: and of course you are familiar with this Vipin Bharathan: this system. Here, holder. Vipin Bharathan: okay. So you have the issuer holder and verify a triangle. Vipin Bharathan: and the verifier does not directly Vipin Bharathan: contact the issuer issue or issues the credential to the holder, which is anybody. or having a wallet of some sort Vipin Bharathan: that is cryptographically protected, and crypto plastically can provide. It can store cryptographic

Vipin Bharathan: attestations of the issuance. And then. Vipin Bharathan: in the presentation part, where they want to rely on a very far higher for any service, or for Vipin Bharathan: various other. for Vipin Bharathan: feeding by a police officer, you have to press into your diverse license. But the presentation in a decentralized Id case is meant to be only Vipin Bharathan: it. It's selected distortion. That means you're basically only showing them

Vipin Bharathan: your name, maybe, or you are a holder of a valid Vipin Bharathan: drivers license, and that you're older than X. Vipin Bharathan: But that's not the case. Today. They. They can read a lot of things from the driver's license. Vipin Bharathan: Then, of course, the 1 one way street here between the issue and the verifier, which is basically the verifier with, who can? look at this? look at the credential and say, is that a valid credential Vipin Bharathan: by reading the data registry which Vipin Bharathan: in our world, this Vipin Bharathan: in the, for example. Vipin Bharathan: and the wallet that the whole of holes is Aries. There is Vipin Bharathan: didcom going on between various other Vipin Bharathan: entities, and that wallet Vipin Bharathan: or various wallets.

Vipin Bharathan: we don't even go into the the details of, you know. having entities other than humans like Vipin Bharathan: IoT, or Vipin Bharathan: or or companies, or anything like that. But so Vipin Bharathan: this is the picture from the. Vipin Bharathan: from the hey part Vipin Bharathan: which is a familiar picture, of course.

Vipin Bharathan: for us. Vipin Bharathan: the challenges. They know that that the standards are still under development. Vipin Bharathan: and Vipin Bharathan: lacking definition. Definitions. Vipin Bharathan: these these are general statements, because even though we know that some of these things are being worked on, they are not accepted globally.

Vipin Bharathan: and we have listed some of the organizations that we talked about just now, plus Vipin Bharathan: some other organizations like Vipin Bharathan: the European Union. Vipin Bharathan: the Architectural reference framework, and E. I d as which Vipin Bharathan: is going to be Vipin Bharathan: the topic of next calls presentation by Stefan, who's done a wonderful job of it before, because he's part of the working group Vipin Bharathan: and actual. He has actually worked on the Ids. So either a Rf. Or the wallet

Vipin Bharathan: standard, or Vipin Bharathan: you know various aspect, and he is very familiar with these things. So Vipin Bharathan: we here next Vipin Bharathan: next call. which is in 2 weeks for that. Vipin Bharathan: but these are Vipin Bharathan: the challenges as per Vipin Bharathan: on the paper Vipin Bharathan: and the risks which we dwell on a little bit political risk data exploitation, which if we haven't even talked about.

Vipin Bharathan: which is basically using the data collected. or I either Vipin Bharathan: to do advertisement for surveillance or using that data Vipin Bharathan: to, I do a to be up Vipin Bharathan: and so. Vipin Bharathan: and of course. Vipin Bharathan: having Vipin Bharathan: that, they have from Vipin Bharathan: how we bye Char Howland: let me get a bit of trouble here in. You've been like the connection. It's breaking up a bit. Vipin Bharathan: Now it's Vipin Bharathan: say to me. Yeah. Vipin Bharathan: go ahead.

Char Howland: Hmm. I'm still not able to hear you too much, unless unless it's just me, and my connection is bad. Char Howland: It's breaking up on my end, too. You can. Vipin Bharathan: However. Vipin Bharathan: Hello! Char Howland: Are you there, Evan? Char Howland: And bits and pieces from you, but not not so coherent. Unfortunately. Char Howland: thanks for your note. I'll find so great to great to have you join. We'll see if they've been is able to rejoin the call, and and maybe the connection will be better

Char Howland: when he's back. Alfonso Govela: Thank you, Char. So you see you in 2 weeks. Char Howland: Yeah, absolutely. we meet at the same time every 2 weeks. So, looking forward to it. Char Howland: thanks, bye. thanks, Brett. Bret Michael Carpenter: definitely.

Char Howland: Thanks everyone. Char Howland: I'll go ahead and wait to see if it is able to rejoin. Char Howland: I'll try messaging him as well. Char Howland: Hi, vippin. How's the connection now? Vipin Bharathan: I rejoined with the Vipin Bharathan: with my phone. Vipin Bharathan: I don't know why it's telling me that I'm in safe driving mode when I'm actually sitting down.

Vipin Bharathan: But anyway, so yeah, I mean the Vipin Bharathan: you know. I I I was just going over the paper. Vipin Bharathan: I I'll have to go back to my. I had to reboot my computer. I don't know what what happened over there. Vipin Bharathan: But Vipin Bharathan: anyway, Vipin Bharathan: how far did you did? Did I Vipin Bharathan: succeed in getting? I don't even know. Char Howland: Yeah, we we were. We had started to cover the risks of decentralized identity. but I think that's about when things started to break up. And I know we just have

Char Howland: a minute or 2 left in the call. So we might wanna Vipin Bharathan: Yeah. I mean, you know, the the paper is kind of self explanatory. They were about 12 slides in the call in the in the Vipin Bharathan: presentation. And I was on Slide 8. Vipin Bharathan: And you know. Basically there were a bunch of barriers that they noted and technical recommendations. But the most important one is the policy recommendations for adoption Vipin Bharathan: which Vipin Bharathan: W. Ef is very Vipin Bharathan: sort of influential with Vipin Bharathan: that ha happens to be the core of the of the paper. But it's, you know, basically things like reviewing policy, altering policy

Vipin Bharathan: develop enabling regulation Vipin Bharathan: and improve privacy. Enhancing technologies. Vipin Bharathan: this is all applicable to Vipin Bharathan: decentralized Vipin Bharathan: identity is what they call it not SSI, and future forward mechanisms Vipin Bharathan: and invest in public policy. Basically invest is that he Vipin Bharathan: is the key recommendation invest in technology invest in getting a good policy adoption and invest in Vipin Bharathan: regulation invest in Vipin Bharathan: training people. in this. Vipin Bharathan: These are the recommendations. And I. So I said, my personal comments are, why is this influential? It is extremely influential. Vipin Bharathan: And because of the W. A lot of government officials shop there. Vipin Bharathan: and Vipin Bharathan: and and there are technological Vipin Bharathan: methods for implementation Vipin Bharathan: and the technological capability for implementation. Both of these have to be proved and participate in multiple venues, which is what we are doing

Vipin Bharathan: anyway. sorry about that. Next time I'll close everything before I Vipin Bharathan: just do this presentation, maybe. I am running AI in the background. I don't know. Char Howland: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sorry you got cut off. I I think it was really useful to to take the time to go over the paper. So thank you.

Vipin Bharathan: Yeah. And also Aiden Salivin is going to come back here Vipin Bharathan: later, and he will do a much fuller presentation. And hopefully, we can Vipin Bharathan: car work enough time for that for him. Vipin Bharathan: and Vipin Bharathan: you know, instead of Vipin Bharathan: just running down a list of updates which which we always do. But Char Howland: yeah, no, I definitely agree we could Char Howland: cut some of that out to leave more time for the presentation. So Vipin Bharathan: all right. So you'll come back, and we have the next 3 presentations on, on, on.

Vipin Bharathan: on our Vipin Bharathan: agenda. And thanks for listening. And thank you. Char Howland: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks so much foripping and thanks Lynn and Charles for hanging around, and so we'll see you on 2 weeks. Vipin Bharathan: Thank you. Bye, bye.

2023-07-05 17:23

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