Sunset on the Family Farm?

Sunset on the Family Farm?

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Agriculture. Contributes, billions to the provincial economy but, employs fewer people than it once did and for, those thousands, of family farms dotting the countryside it's. Serious business that's, getting harder every year with, us now for more in, the nation's capital via Skype there's Keith Currie he's the president, of the Ontario Federation. Of Agriculture and here. In our studio Maggie, VanCamp, she is the owner of red crest farms and director, of agriculture, at the consulting, firm BDO, and crystal. Makai CEO, of loft 32, which, specializes. In communications. For the AG sector and we are delighted to have you two here in our studio Keith, good to see you again in the nation's capital I just, want to start by establishing, everybody's, bona fides on this program because. Because. You guys have been at this for a very long time Maggie, how many what generation, farmer are you. Seven. You are seven generation, raishin we're boats in Blackstock. Ontario which is where northeast. Of Toronto okay. Go. Ahead crystal you yeah my family, my brother would be the eighth generation he's. In the Ottawa Valley near, Pembroke and Keith, how about you yeah, eighth generation farmer. Just outside of calling with Ontario okay so we got people on the program tonight who know we're of they speak. Keith. I want to go to you first here as well as being the president of the OFA you're. A firmer, of what. What is it that you guys grow, well. Greens and ala C orange soybean wheat a little, bit of forages, for, hay and we also grow some sweet corn and some gladiola flowers for cut flowers and how's business. Business. Is really, nice right now because it's quiet but. Typically it's been it's been good with respect to the sweet. Corn and gladiolas, were certainly. In a tourist area where I live so that gives, us lots of traffic exposure. Okay. Crystal your you, mentioned that your brother has taken over the family farm, well he didn't my parents, sold the family farm two years ago but we kept a pastor firm and my sister and her husband are still actively farming, okay so what's the story with your brother well, the, reality of when. Your parents are getting older and it comes time to succession, plan which we're going to talk about the. Reality of not being able to afford the capital, investment, to take over which, is emotion. Economics. So let's get this straight your parents presumably would like to have had someone. In the family take it over but. Financially, that was not doable because. It's, expensive, it's a big capital asset and many farmers are cash, poor asset. Rich so, the reality is when it comes time for succession. Who. In the family can step up and give them which is basically their retirement, fund, how. About you who's Manning. The family are staffing the family farm these days I've. Hired a manager so. I could do the job with video and. He's. Another chicken farmer from the area okay. And why are you at video. I'm. Actually trying, to get more farmers to do succession, planning that's, my personal. Mandate, am. I also developing, their practices, across the country it feels like most, farmers I talked to not. Only sort, of see some responsibility, on the farm but, they've got something else on the go as well is, that a more, prevalent, phenomena, these days it. Does happen quite often and, sort of depends on the scale of the farm and the operation, and. Krystal why would that be necessary, well. Depending, on what type of farm you have we have a lot of smaller, part-time, firms or even firms that could be full-time but they're just not sustainable, economically, so you support, the farm with an off arm income it's very common, hmm Keith talk to us about that is farming, today in Ontario, and if, you're a family farmer is it an economically, viable way, of life anymore.

It. Is and, just to follow up where Krystal was you know there's also a lot of seasonal, agriculture, goes on so, we have a number of farmers we'll work in the offseason my, area is a big ski area in the wintertime so certainly. Farmers who grow grains and oil seeds can find, off work, employment through, the winter months to supplement, their income on the farm it's. It's big dollars, to. Operate a farming operation right, now and and to, move on into the next generation I'm, sure Maggie we'll get into this later but what, complicates, that is the fact that we have multiple generations on the farm as well so it's not just parents. Passing on to children it's multiple, generations and multiple siblings so that complicates, it as well and there may need to be. Supplementation. Of income so, that all families have enough income to survive. There are no doubt people watching us right now are listening to us on podcast, who. Are either, in. High, school and they're thinking about their futures or they're, in some kind of post-secondary and, they're considering, whether or not. Farming. Is a viable option, for them or whether they've got to do something else so. Let's start with some discussion on this Maggie why should, a young person today go into farming, it's. An exciting field it's. Full, of technology we're moving on we're on the cusp of moving to even, more technology, and automation. There's. Great. Ways. To gather assets. As you farm, and. Most. Importantly, it's a fantastic. Place to raise your children that's. Why we start affirming 20 years ago that whole setting that's a great place to raise kids it's a wonderful place to raise children a lot. Of what we hear about farming in the province today of course is negative. Because. It's hard if. You're a young person today why should you not be daunted by the. Inevitable, challenges, you're going to run into if you want to become a firmer. Great, question, I think the optimism, and farming always outweighs the pessimism, kind of like Leafs fans so. They keep hoping every year is gonna be a new spring right I, would say right now I talked to the Dean at the Agriculture, College at the University of Guelph there are four jobs for every graduate, coming out of Guelph right now so the feeding, people is not going to go out of style so, for a young person the concept, of if you want a cause you want to feed your country, you want to help address, climate change, agriculture, is a great place to be the, negative side is the reality is it's hard work there's, not always a good return on investment. You're working with Mother Nature seven. Days a week it's not air-conditioned. Comfort necessarily. So, there there are some realities of hard. Work that not all generations, are ready to sign up for okay. That's a that's a nice I think a nice polite way of saying there. Are too many Millennials, today who grow up wanting a certain particular type. Of life and that might not involve getting up at 4:30 in the morning to milk the cows or etc, etc etc at a fair point I don't, want to judge on the Millennials because actually my. Children fall almost, into that category and there, very hardworking and they, work at their own things at their own pace, it's a grew up on a farm. Maybe. Why they're hard-working I. Don't. Know I think they look for solutions that are different than we did and, I. Think that because agriculture. Is becoming more automated, and more, technological, there's gonna be a huge need, for those Millennials that have those skill sets Keith. Can you weigh in on that whether this is and you. Know still a decent way to make a living if you're a young person looking to make a mark in the world absolutely, and and you know we talk about hard work and that the physical part of that is true but, it's also you, have to work smarts, like any other business you'd have to work smart and know just to follow up on we're making crystal, were the, technological. Advancements, are incredible, where we come with science, improving. Our genetics. And livestock and in crops has. Been phenomenal a turnover of, improvement, is rapid, and that's, drawing people to, the to the industry and what. I don't think people understand, as much that's, when we're crystals going with the jobs aspect, but coming out of colleges you, know I have, robots and things like that on my farm that I can run and they can operate but don't ask me to fix them so we need the support services, the.

Careers That, will support me as a farm business so there's opportunity, in rural Ontario to, be part of the agri-food industry without, actually hands-on on the farm and you know we need to be promoting those kinds of things too and and and, and you know to go. Where Maggie was but, I mean is sexy again technology. Certainly made a big a big, impact on that so I I, have I mean I've always been optimistic about agriculture Stan it's the best job in the world whether you're on the farm or related to the. Agri-food industry and, I think the more we get that message out the more people realize that there's great, opportunities, Keith, I don't want to sound like a city snob here but when you say it's sexy again was it ever sexy once before. In. My. Eyes. I, want. To, well. How, do I put this so that I don't again sound like a jerk here okay I hear farmers all the time talking about how the weather is never good enough about how the interest rates are always too high they always owe the bank too much money it's, always too hard to get people who are prepared to put in an honest day's work for an honest day's wage I hear, a lot from the, agri-food sector about, you know the negative side of this, occupation, am, I only hearing Cristal one side of the story here I think. It's human nature to, complain about the weather particularly. In Canada so let's put that on the table. We I think our sector is our own worst enemy sometimes of being a little too negative and focusing on the positive and forgetting, about the the reason why with, heart that people choose to farm and I, see that tide turning to see people are standing up to say no this is a good place to raise our kids we are feeding our country, what can be more valuable than that with pride our. Firm is complaining too much, no. I don't think so don't think so no maybe to their own children. No. They have to approach their own farm and no the wrong way so. You can approach something negatively, or you can approach a positively, Steve, and the, successful, farmers approach their business positively, okay I want to find out why I mean obviously nowadays. Given the economics, many. People choose a different, way to go and Keith, I'm going, to infer that at some point along the way, I, you've.

Been Made a sweet offer for your place because. Who knows what the land is worth more, putting, condos on it or developing, developing, it for tourism in some other fashion and yet. To this juncture I guess, you. Haven't sold out you're still farming how come. Well. It's. What I love from, the time I could think all I wanted to ever do is farm and so, I may get to a point in time and the not so distant future when there's no, one's going to take over this farm or want, to take over this farm there nobody want to buy it for farming operation where I have to consider an alternative but you, know I represented. Membership. That is about growing food as, well growing fuel fiber, and. Energy products. On our on earth on our ground and once it's gone it's gone so we need to we, need to be responsible, on how we grow we, need to be responsible. You, know on how we treat the echoes in industry, but, each individual, farmer, is going to make, up their own mind on what their decision is they, have to decide whether you know is it an economic thing is that I'm done nobody else wants to take over so I'm going to take advantage of the opportunity, that's given me to, sell to for a high price that's, an individual, management decision that each each farmer faces at some point in time in their life Stein Maggie. I'm not sure the Greater Toronto Area, that goes as far as Blackstock. Okay. But you know it's not inconceivable, that before long you know someone's going to make an offer for that farm to put up a building there or something instead of use it for farming never, been tempted to sell out, my. Story's a little different go ahead six. Years ago my husband was killed. In a farm accident and, so. Certainly at, that point I had to rethink of it because we were truly partners, in the business. But. Because we did transition, planning we had some time and choices ahead of us and I could, choose whether, to stay and keep going. What. That looks like in the future I'm, not sure of we were moving ahead my children, are considering, taking over the farm, and, I'm trying to give them every opportunity to. Figure that out it's. Interesting after that tragedy, that you just didn't say I want to wash my hands of all of us all together and just get as, far away from it as possible how. Come you didn't make that choice i, farmed. As well. I took an agriculture. Degree. It's. Been my passion for my life as well as his so I. Decided. To carry on and do. What, I know how to do best and that was at, that time raised chickens, did. A. Lot of heart and soul thinking. About it but that's, where we were were, then so we just kept the, pathway, got. You you. Ever been tempted to say goodbye well, my parents did with our home farm right, so there. Is an I'm the opposite I'm the one that left to go to university, and you know stayed in Guelph so, I had the opposite, do, I go home and buy, that farm emotional. Thinking but logically, it just, wasn't right for us and, why did your parents decide the end had come for them well, at 80 you know we. Probably should have been doing that at 60 which we'll talk about the average age of farmers and the succession plan that my, dad is half blind and, probably. Should have stopped firming 25, years ago but. He kept going because it's heart and soul right so there's, a lot of emotions, around we talk about agriculture, it's a business and but it's very much a way of life and you know when Keith can speak to this with his membership people. That farm to to firm for the passion and the love of it and the business supports. That passion, and love. One. In four farmers are going to be turning 65 in the next few, years in the next five years and, that, is a big, shift in our culture and, in our industry, and for Canada it's quite frankly well since we I mean we've, talked we've. Referred to it a few times already so let's go a little deeper on this right now succession, planning you know it's something that every, family business has to do it's, clearly. A crucial. Thing for firming. Families. To do how, well do they do it right now in your view, terrible.

Terrible. Well. 8.4, percent of Canadian. Farms have a written succession, plan. Historically. Our industry. Has just really, relied, on death, to take care of it death and tradition. And. You. Know the eldest son got the farm basically, historically. And that's a great deal different today we, need to plan. Because it's a way more complex, business. Its. Values. Are you, know it's estimated 60 billion dollars worth of assets we're gonna change hands in agriculture. In the next 8 10 years in what, in the country in the country in Canada 60. Billion billion, dollars yeah so, you would think it behooves people to do a little planning you think yeah. Plus there's a whole. Positive. Thing that happens with succession once, you pick a successor it's, been proven. That net. Profits increase, you. Know they bring back all that energy, they, bring back, technology. They. Bring back new ideas, in. Entrepreneurship, to the farm so Keith if that's the case how come so few farmers spend so, little time succession, planning good, question, and and despite. Surprises, Steve but at one point time I was a young farmer, and. You. Know that conversation, is always difficult when, you're when you're speaking with the, older generation on the farm as to when. Is it my turn and I, think you know people, like Maggie have come along in the recent years and that actually, helped that process come, along we've, got tools in place now such as incorporation, where we, can create shares to easy, easier transition the. Farm crystal was talking earlier about that, big cash outlay that that, the next owner, of the operation, has to have and to things like incorporation, that you can ease that over time and we also as I mentioned earlier we also have to talk about multiple generation, ownership on. The farms grandpa, might still own the land parents, might own the property, or the equipment, and then the young generation, is trying to get in and how do we manage all that and I know when I started farming the average age of the farm was 55 56, but I think that's a little skewed by that multiple generation, ownership - but, we are looking at a bunch of baby boomers that will be retiring very, shortly as Maggie referred, to so we.

Have To figure it all or you find all the tools that we need to help that transition as smoothly as possible because the, last thing we want to do is lose someone who wants to actually get, into farming but aunt bird announcer, reasons are stubborn, errant and you. Know that's that's a struggle well, I wanted to ask ya Maggie can you follow up on that wouldn't would mm-hmm what, is the most familiar example. In. As far as is it is it mom or dad or grandparents. Aren't ready to aren't. Ready to go even. Though the younger generation, wants to take it over yes. That's way that's what, happens, we, just get stuck in our ways and, it's a very awkward conversation so. Unless you seek. Out some help and get outside of ice and, and someone, to sort of help you navigate through, that it, can be very difficult and emotional, not. Only that but we also have. Non. Farming family, family, members to consider and that, can be a very big stumbling, block so, we have to, make. Sure that they understand, that this is a family heirloom that. The farm is actually a family heirloom and. They. Have to want. To be able to pass on that heirloom, I don't. Want to call your parents out on TV or anything. But. If, it was a priority, of your folks to see that the farm state and the family how. Many conversations did. Did, they and you and your siblings have to. Ensure that that could happen many. And over, 20 years like, my brother went, to Guelph do you know Diploma in agriculture. You know very which is a very and story and, to. Keith's point about the not being willing, to take. The next level of I, still, want a farm and how do how does the next generation, get in so, many conversations but, without professional help just around the kitchen table to say you know what let's soar are you gonna take over the farm do you want to come home you, know conversations, but, not. In a I would say in a but not with a business professional so. If you'd had sort of an outside consultant, who could play kind. Of honest broker and the whole thing maybe it might have turned out differently I think it definitely, would have helped and especially, with the time line like if you look over 20 years which you know if you think about your kids in university, age this, is not a small investment, so you start, when you're 20 to say or 25, to say okay I'm definitely in this track then, what does the business plan look like to support that Maggie. As we know farmers. Love predictability, right. They want the weather to be the weather the way it's supposed to be in the spring and the way it's supposed to be in the summer etc, etc and one thing we've learned is, that with climate change the weather is not predictable at all no my.

Goodness Was it was it 9 degrees in Toronto last week and is it going down to minus 10 of, anything, tomorrow, anyway. Nothing seems predictable anymore, how. How. Much has climate, change threaten the viability of the family farm hmm. I think something, that farmers, get used to and Keith can can. Talk about this, we. Have to manage it we, have to try, to manage it to the best that we can so we buy things like crop insurance. But. It's still an emotional, problem. I, was, in Manitoba. In. October, and they, got three feet of snow so. They stopped harvests, the potatoes were ruined and. The. Whole place, was. Breathing. In deeply and holding. Its breath until that snow melted, and, that's just the reality of farming. Mmm is. It a bit different for you in as much as you know, usually with chickens you've got controlled circumstances, that kind of very controlled yes right we try to keep it to the degree right, so. Climate change is not going to affect you per se that much no, but I do have some land. Right. Now I'm leasing it out. Affects my neighbors and that affects me gotcha, and your chicken feed and, with the outfeed costs are directly related to commodity. Prices Keith, what about it how much tougher is it to be a farmer when climate change is as prevalent as it is. Well. Certainly we we can't predict the weather as. Much as we used, to be able to use to count on it being very. Predictable, and so, with those those sudden swings and severe weather whether, it's drought whether it's rain, really. Is having a huge impact and, you, know if you look at this past year, in, Canada right across the country we've had weather incidents, and, I'll. Also say it's not just climate change or weather anymore we're, dealing with factors, out of our control like geopolitics. That are affecting our trade that's. Being a big trade nation. You, know there's all things like to see and blockages, and rail strike that happened in the fall that are out of our control and so, when you couple all these things together puts tremendous pressure, on the farm community to make, sure that they have all the, things. In place and, mitigate, the impact of these types of incidents hmm, I would, presume the coronavirus is having an impact as well and getting your products, to places that they might not have access to anymore is that true, yeah. Well actually right now the cn block use is having more impact as you can't get anything out nice nothing moved but yeah certainly certainly, trade is a big one and that's that's things that's out of the farmers control so you know all of a sudden now not only are we dealing with a cash flow problem. But, we're dealing with tremendous mental stress and, then you couple that with what's, going to happen in the spring are we going to be able to get our products move that we're going to be able that cash flow lien and we, continue, to operate our farm in the sort.

Of What we call a normal practice, and that may be more, difficult going forward. Christel given that everything is sort, of just in time it really depends, on, train. Tracks being available to export. Product on and so on and so forth how nervous, do you think farmers are these days about the. Geopolitical angle, that Keith just Wilfred, very. Nervous, in that it's absolutely, out of everybody's. Control it seems like at this point so not just getting your product OPA getting product in so natural, gas propane. Feed. Supplies, you, know every all your inputs coming in as well as your exports, going out so even if you everything, in your control is going well whether. Animals crops you. Know you're managing everything, like a really, professional business, if you can't get your inputs in or your exports out you, know that's that's, debilitating. To farmers Maggie, the skeptics would say there's, just another good reason not to be in farming is that it's yet another thing out of your control and it. Doesn't seem like there's any shortage of it these days in the world what, do you say to that I, would. Say that that's always, been, the case with Canadian, agriculture, we really have to for, our major exports we have to go over the Rockies that, is a major problem a major trade barrier. Literally, a physical, barrier for. Canadian agriculture. So. It's not surprising that, we. Have problems it's just that the. Political. Geopolitical situation. Seems. To fluctuate, more and impact. Us more. Directly. Keith. Is there anything that could be done about that, well. I think we continue to have the conversations, with government, on an ongoing basis, on you, know anytime you want to implement something what's the impact on the ground and how can we help you to. Be better how can we move things forward and you, know I just want to touch on where Maggie was there what. People don't understand about farmers as farming isn't what we do farmers are who we are, and it might be hard it's, definitely hard to explain that but that's you, know that's why we see the optimism, in the industry every, single day and yes we complain about, trade. Issues we complain about CN Blackie's as we complain about the weather but, we do have these opportunities, and and you, know when, we can. Alleviate the, impacts of getting West and Green to the Vancouver port or getting products out to the, ports in eastern Canada to get products around the world that's.

How We can have those conversations with, a government to, find out what can we do to, help alleviate, this situation so, that's one less thing that we have to worry about going forward and we can concentrate on what we do best and that's farming, growing food great fuel fiber etc. Can I ask you crystal, a bit, of a tricky political question here here, goes, you, know there's, a debate happening, in this country right now about how sympathetic. Or not various, Canadians, are or not to. The claims being made by indigenous people right now as it relates to ETSU as it relates to Tyendinaga and, so on would. You it's the case that farmers, have less sympathy, for those indigenous. Causes. Because. For, them. You. Know the impact, on their bottom line is just so, profound, that. They don't have the bandwidth to take those other issues into account I don't know I'm asking ya I don't, I don't know Steve to be honest I've never thought about that angle I think, it's human nature obviously. You want to thrive and survive yourself. And your family, in your business, so I, think it, would be human nature for anybody farmers, or sub in your topic here to say how does this impact me first, right, I, feel in general terms. Farmers, are really sympathetic, to First Nations, and they're aligned. With them on many things like environmental, causes to say you know we we want our farms to be in better shape and then when we inherited, them or we took them over so this concept of being sympathetic, with nature and the impacts on the environment I, would say they're very aligned on this, issue though I feel, if. You can't get propane or you can't get grain, that's. Gonna override. Your sympathies. For other causes maybe, you want to weigh in on that I do actually because, that. Sounds like two separate groups butting, in fact there, are lots of, First. Nations reserves. That run. Firms. And they, own a, lot of firm, land in this country so. It, should be actually a collaborative, solution. Would. That it were there we, shall see Keith how about you you want to go in on that yeah. Certainly with respect to indigenous Canadians they are keeping the land much like we are and we. You know we certainly respect where where this situation, is currently if you look at the rail blockades, but, no, there's more to this story than most Canadians, understand, it's not just that simple so what.

We Need is the conversations. To continue to happen so, that we we, all understand, we're on the same page okay. Let me do that, let's. Tackle one more controversy, here because we haven't been controversial, enough so far. Sheldon. Bottom page three you want to put that picture up Maggie's. That look familiar oh that's, me. What. Are we looking at there and you for people who are listening on podcast and can't see the picture describe, it if you would so, this is my barn was a few years ago. We raised four. Kilogram, chickens, sarah and the next day they went to market, how. Many chickens you think there are in that shot oh so. About 15,000. On that, floor I have two floors like that so, you got 30,000, chickens yes Wow. Now, if. Somebody, were to put that picture on social media yes with no context. Or understanding, or perspective, they. Would say they. Would possibly say oh my goodness look at how, something. Right they would not understand, that they. Wouldn't understand necessarily so. What's the added context, we need to understand, that picture well, there's um, there. Are rules that we have to follow how. Many birds are allowed per square, foot. We're heavily, regulated around that and. That. All that ventilation, that you saw there the chickens, get feed. Free. To them at any time there's, water to them at all times and we. Track. That ventilation, very, closely in fact it's all my we, have a web page so I can actually follow it on my cell phone. Keith, this, is not a new subject for you obviously but as. You, try. To negotiate your way through the battle for public opinion there are people who are going to see that and you. Know, panic. Or have a negative reaction and you're. Gonna have a different reaction how. Do we how. Do we handle all that well. We also I almost, have to start from the ground floor and certainly crystal spent a lifetime talking, about public trust initiatives, and really. My generation, has done a lousy job of talking to consumers people, trust, farmers they just don't trust what we do and that's that's where the problem is and you know so we need to have those conversations so, that most Canadians, understand, you, know what we do how we do it and why we do it there are fringe people on either side we're never going to we're never going to get to so let's not waste our effort and energy on them but let's talk to the general public as a whole and, say look you know it, doesn't benefit us to.

Do Things in the wrong way whether that's bad, environmental, practices, or that's bad animal, husbandry. But. You. Also need to respect, what we do and you know some of the issues we've been having with activists, in particular is about a lack of respect for my personal space my animal, safety my, family, safety my employee safety these kinds of things which wouldn't, be tolerated in any other workplace if somehow we are expected, to accept, that they are allowed to do these kinds of things so we, need to continue, to have those conversations and, don't be afraid to answer a question don't, be don't hide behind anything, be as transparent as possible because if if you're not not hiding anything people don't have a reason to look over the fence to see what's going on and, we, just have to be honest and transparent, nobody. Goes into a grocery store today and questions, the production, of the food that's in there they trust, it they buy it they don't question how, its produced and that's because we've done a great job in this country and fact around the world in. Producing food so let's. Just keep telling that story and let's, let's get them involved, those that aren't on farming let's get them involved in understanding, how. We do what we do Krystal, Keith used an interesting expression there he said we trust farmers, we just don't necessarily trust the process. It. May well be because so many people watching. Us or listening to us right now I've never been to a farm in their lives and, they just have no comprehension, of how all this works what. Do you do about that yeah, well it's like Wi-Fi, it's just magic, right the food just appears in the grocery store and other restaurants, so, 93, percent of Canadians say they know little or nothing about farming and they're in that self at you know self monitored. So, it's probably more yea, higher, yeah exactly so the. Reality is we're not going to educate our way out of this disconnect, people don't want a degree in agriculture, you know necessarily they just want good healthy, affordable food, so to Keith's point this concept, about people. Involved in our food system are stepping up and need to do more to just be open and transparent and say it's your food you're feeding your kids you're, choosing to put it in your body what can be more personal than this let's, have a conversation because, Canadians, do want to know more which is exciting his years ago I started these conversations I, would go to the CNE the exhibition, in Toronto and you'd. Have to stand on your head and juggle to get people's attention to talk about food they'd be like whatever it's cheap and we got a lot of it I don't care today, it's very different they're like no you're a firm person that's amazing, on planes I always judge your ate planes and cabs right what, do you do for a living and, I think. It's very encouraging that, people actually want to know more about where their food comes from and I would challenge everybody in the food system whether you're a chef or a farmer, to say let's have a conversation, over a meal the, challenge is on says crystal Makai there we go crystal. Makai Maggie VanCamp Keith Currie we're really grateful to all of you for coming out of TVO tonight and helping us out with this thanks a lot thank.

You Thank, you thank, you Steve. The, agenda with Steve Paikin is brought to you by the chartered, professional accountants, of Ontario, CPA. Ontario is, a regulator, an educator, a thought leader and an advocate we. Protect, the public we advance our profession, we guide, our CPAs, we. Are CPA, Ontario and, by. Viewers like you, thank you.

2020-03-02 23:38

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