State of Latino Entrepreneurship 2019 — Part 2
You. Now. We are energized, to present this afternoon's, panel featuring, the, alumni, of the Stanford Latino, entrepreneurship. Initiative education, scaling. Program, so, we want you to get involved, you all see our hashtag. Stanford. Soul, that's, hashtag, Stanford, s o le we, want you to ask us questions to. The panelists, specifically, or about topics that they cover and we'll, address the cues from. Twitter at the end of this segment, so please get active on social hashtag. Stanford, s o, le, Stanford. Sol moderating. Our panel is Victor. Adi s jr.. Victor. Is chairman, and co-founder of Elle ban former. Trustee, for Stanford University, and a GSB, alum, he. Has over 20 years of experience as an executive search consultant, working primarily at. Board, director, and c-suite, levels welcome Victor and. Our. Panelists, Rafael. Alvarez, CEO. Of a tax franchise. We. Have Christine, Saks totes berry president, and founder of Dorado, accessories. Derek. Goldstein CEO, of Casa Plex. Maruyama, Dean CEO. President, and founder of unlimited. Recycling. Inc as, the. Panels getting situated, and seated I'll share quickly some sleigh II D alumni. Facts. 430. Strong, from 30 states in Puerto Rico in fact. We, have over 70. Of our alumni, in the audience today from, across the country. This. Group graduates. Over the last three years employ, over. 45,000. Across the country and they earn combined, annual revenues, gross revenues, of north of 1.6. Billion. Dollars. So. That deserves. Applause. And. Of. Note mean, gross annual revenues for our graduates, are 5.8 million dollars, although. We have a consistent, representation. From Latino. Strongholds. Texas, California southern Florida New, York we. Were proud last, year to graduate our first entrepreneurs, from the states of Indiana and Oregon, and of, course our plans to have representation, from all 50 states and our, goal is to double the number of ten million hundred. Billion and 1 billion dollar own latino-owned companies in the u.s. by 2025. So. We are proud of our, 95%. Graduation rate, of slate entrepreneurs.
Which, Is the highest of any Stanford, GSB Executive, IDI online program, and we. Thank the GSB executive, IDI for the great opportunity, to collaborate to make this happen and notably. 92%. Of our, slate alumni, are still, in business. Welcome. Mr. chairman and panelists. Thank. You Mark. Thank. You all for coming and. I'd be remiss to not, at. Least recognize the. Efforts, and, the. Luck that we have to have somebody. Like Marc, redbull, Madrid, to. Be with us the. Guy has incredible energy, passion. Commitment, and so. We're very fortunate to have you Marc so please let's give Marc a big one. And. Thanks, again as well for everybody that's here we appreciate you've, taken an interest in this I want to thank Provost. Rel a person's. Traveled Alison for her commitment. And Stanford's, commitment, to this incredible. Initiative and just, really proud of that here at my alma mater and and. Of. Course proud. Of the elbe, an organization. The. Board. Marc. And the entire, staff for. What, they've done mm-hmm, also, our scaling, alums we're, so glad that you're here as Mark mentioned and. We. Are you know that's our lifeblood, we. Have four incredible, representatives. Of those alums and these. Incredible entrepreneurs. You're going to hear from our. Focus continues to be around. Scaling, Latino businesses, and, they. Are the drivers, as you, heard from purses. And others the, drivers, of this economy, they are the part. Of the new mainstream, economy, of the United States the. Numbers don't lie it's. A fact, and so. You'll continue to hear more and you. Know the US economy, is driven. By, small. Business and so, the us Latinos will continue, to drive impact. I'm, going to create jobs are going to create wealth, that's going to be redistributed and. Reinvested. In our economy, and they're going to create jobs for our country, not. Just for nothing's but for our entire country so we're. Just very happy about. About. What's what's happening here. The. Key catalyst, is for, scaling as we mentioned is the. Access to capital so we just cannot forget that and so I've asked, our distinguished. Panelists, to think of it in that context, and they're. In their journeys their own personal, journeys in, the. Pursuit of access. To capital and, and, for, the pursuit of scaling, their businesses, and also. Utilizing, some of the the, characteristics. That Marlene. Had put up on on the board, whatever. Those might be whether it's right. You know certifications. Business, registration. The. Relationships. The formal networking, all those and so our, panelists. Will, kind of share all that with, you. So. Let's. Get started. And. Instead. Of introducing. Them myself because Marx would have introduced them as they came up. We're. Gonna start off with a question that, I think will give you some personal insights into. Who they are and what their businesses, are so and. We'll start off with Raphael, I'm and this. Question goes to all of you all and that is you. Know where did you grow up and what was that like I think. It's really important to understand that and. Tell us a little bit about your business and so we'll start with that question right off the bat Rafael. Alvarez um I. Was born in the. Dominican Republic, I. Came to this country as a teenager. Landed. In a. Very, rough neighborhood back, then called. Washington Heights, those, of you there are no New York City I'm from New York City that's. The northern Manhattan, out, of my hand in other part Mohana so. I consider, myself a survivor was a very rough neighborhood back then I came in in 1983. And. A. Lot of my, friends they either end up in jail or Oded. Because, of the drug situation in the neighborhoods what. I consider myself a survivor thanks. To my parents great, education. I. Started. My. Business, while. I was in college I saw a great opportunity I. Consider, myself one of the pioneer or, what we know now as part of the electronic filing program. I. Started. Doing some research, trying.
To Find out why people were doing taxes, manually. Back then and, I realized that it was a great opportunity realizing. That the IRS was getting ready to launch what we now the electronic, filing program, so. I decided, to get involve and, got. Into the, tax preparation business, back in. 1986. So I've been in the industry for over 30 years, so. I, started. My business with $200. We, were now $200, to computers, on a fax machine and. It's. Kind, of interesting to talk about capital, because my journey in. 30 years has been the one of really. Building my. Enterprise. My Empire the way I call it with my. Sweat and blood actually. No, getting any capital but my, first if I made my first accounting about the. Experience, of being an entrepreneur was, when I needed at least twenty. Thousand dollars to open on my first, tax. Preparation office back in 1986. And I I remember. When I kind. Of asked my dad to lend, me twenty thousand dollars, to. Open on my first business and of course what do you think he said to me you. Crazy. Twenty thousand dollars a lot of money but. I I was able to be great enough and I was able to, was. Very popular in college so I acts 35, of my closest friend to. Lend me. $8,000. Because I knew that nobody would let me 1520. Not even five. Thousand dollars but thirty five with my friends I accident to lend me a thousand dollars and eighteen, or ten agree to lend, me a thousand, dollars so I open up my first locations, with eighteen thousand dollars my $200, I have my savings account two computers, and a fax machine that's, great and that's, where took, me here that's a resource you tell us. By. The way, so. So. Tell us what, cohort, were you in and how. Big is your company, and when did you start it well, I started I, was in co-host, number five. My. Company is called a tax franchise I'm, the first Latino and, I established a franchise, company in the tax preparation bookkeeping, on payroll industry.
In. The nation and. Has. Been franchising. Since 2007. And, I. Have about 60, locations close, to six location nationwide. Headquarters. In New York and other headquarters, here now in some francisco i'm growing. Very, fast. And just so that you know he, was. Profiled. You, who's familiar with, market. Watch the program okay, good good show of hands Dow, Jones he. Was a profiled. By. Market watch and one other segments, and that's that's really huge though a round, of applause for. Christine. How, about your story hate, so I have to follow that. Story. My name is Christine sacks I'm president, and co-founder of, grant acessory and Dorado accessories, in Puerto Rico. It. Is a wholesale, fashion. Accessory, and apparel company and we focused mainly on selling, to major retailers, throughout. The United States mainly. In the atypical, retail, market where you wouldn't find those products, so pharmacy. Grocery, store chains and, large box retailers, I grew. Up in Greenwich Connecticut. Fluent. Suburb outside of New York City it, was not an easy journey for my parents to get us there my mother's from Puerto Rico my. Father grew up as, an orphan in, in Pennsylvania. My parents worked very hard to. Put my brother and I through private school eventually. I went on to Penn State and. I actually started, my. Journey in this industry, when I was in college at Penn State I would sell sunglasses. On the street during various events. One. Event was a fight was a running race where involved, going from bar to bar and, we. Set up our sunglass table. Right in the middle of the race and and sold. To spectators, and runners and that was my entree, into the entrepreneurial, industry, I went. On to graduate school at Loyola University with. My husband and, we. Specialized. In small and family-owned businesses, so, after we got out of school we, joined the family business and then we eventually pivoted, to our own business, so. Thirty years later I work with my husband we. Have a successful. Company here. In the United States we, about five years ago we opened up an office in Puerto Rico to support our business in Puerto Rico and we, look to that, office to help us pivot more to the Latin. And Caribbean, market and. What chord were you in I was in cohort, 5 also another cohort so, thank you Christine. Derek. My. Name is Derek Goldstein I'm the CEO of Casa, Plex we. Are a technology, integrator, that specializes. In designing building, and maintaining technology. Solutions, for homes, and buildings, I, grew. Up in a middle-class, suburb. Of Washington DC called Bethesda Maryland I, was an avid soccer player and until high school I fell in love with computers, started. Doing a lot, of web development, on. The computer built the first stock. Market simulation, on the internet back in 1996. Called dead you stock and. Then the first fantasy sports Stock Exchange called Wall Street sports that was in 98. And. Through. This kind of love of computers, and web developments started. Learning more about. Technology. And how it could affect the physical world and got. Very interested, in how you could integrate different technologies, within a home or a building and so that's how the, company was started I. Grew. Up in a four-person, family, have a loving. Sister and and my mother and father met. And got married in London who was my mother was a, venezuelan. Asian and my. Father was a jew from Kentucky so. They met and they fell in love in London, got married and moved. To DC, I. I. Really. Struggled. I guess starting. The business by. Myself, initially. And brought, on a business partner to help and. Grew. The business for about ten years without any funding and. We. Have some stories about that we, can get into later but. Just really happen to be here and so. When did you find, found, your business and then Woodcote were you in I've, founded in 2004, and I was in the third cohort. And. Last but certainly not least Maria, Medina, well.
Now I have to follow all these wonderful. Entrepreneurs. I. Am, the CEO, and owner of unlimited recycling. I started, my company as a matter of fact April, 20th, will be 20 years, I. Grew. Up in, Esteli. Nicaragua, and I moved to the United States in, 1978. Due to the civil war I'm. Gonna tell you a little bit about my background I, was actually in school and one, day and a private. Old girl Catholic, school and the armed, guards came in with guns and. Demanded. Us to leave, and so we. Managed to all get, out of the school at the same time and going through the town there. Were a lot of you know a, lot. Of tear gas and, somehow I made it home and, I, had visited my sister in Florida and that she lived there at the time and and. So. My dad said pack your suitcase. You're going back to the US and you know obviously, a young girl I was. The basket but the captain, of my basketball team I was the president, of my class her wonderful life and. So I was uprooted from that, environment and woke up in Miami. And Here I am so. I grew, up in Jacksonville, I graduated. From high school did. Not graduate from college I'm not as fortunate a lot of people I just didn't have the funding to be able to go to school and graduate but, I did go to three. Years of college and I worked. For a CPA, firm and found my love in accounting, so, I continued, to study and work hard and I. Was fortunate enough to get a job by the Department. Of Natural Resources that's. Where I found my passion for the environment my office used to receive all the, illegal, dumping calls and, even bought even though my boss would say you. Know that's not our job to to. Give, the, public explanation, I felt that it was my duty so I learned everything that I could one, thing left to another and so I decided one day I'm just gonna start my own company and I'm gonna call it unlimited, recycling, I want. That name to show people that that, name I'm. Unlimited, I can do anything and, one.
Of The things that I felt, when I worked for other company, that I had wings and I wanted to fly and I felt restricted as. I was limited to what I call fire I could go and. I, didn't like the fact that I could I had to ask someone my, boss can I stay home with my child today or can, I go to conferences, I wanted to be a mom that was my number one job and to. Be an, entrepreneur and to be my own boss and to be able I. Grew, up the youngest of seven children so, as you can imagine I, had to learn to defend myself and. It. Was a very challenging until. This day is still challenging. Even. At my age, because. They think they can boss me around but, no. But I enjoy being a leader and I, have learned everything through, my family, on, how to you. Know to, be a good boss and and. I love, my, company, we. Have, grown. Tremendously in. The last few years it's, extremely, challenging our, business, because it's always evolving always changing, and always trying, to protect the environment, and our customers, from from. Liability. I'm. Part, of quarter number three, and. It's, a pleasure to be here and thank you so much for this opportunity. Thank You Maria. So. One of the important, things is, always to find out, what. Who. Motivates, you who influences. You in in. Whatever, you. Do in your life and in your business and, so and I'll start with out with you Derrick and you. Know who, would you say or what it was your biggest influence in your life and, if it's different and you're starting your business, it's. Definitely different in, my life it was definitely my parents my, father was a very risk-averse conservative. Always. Wanted me to do well in school if it wasn't on the report card it didn't, really seem to matter he. Always wanted those A's my. Mother was. Also an influencer in a little bit of different ways she always. Took, my crazy ideas and and supported, me in anything that I wanted, to approach. And all these different businesses that, I started so. They were very influential in. That way, on. The business side there, was no single influencer. But it was a category of clients, during, the beginning stages of forming. The company that, really took a risk in doing business with a start-up and I. Developed, very strong relationships, with them they became part of my extended family essentially. They. Were all entrepreneurs themselves, they all kind of saw the struggles that I was going through and wanted, to help out and they've, become lifelong, friends mentors. And, advisors so. Great. Good, story how about you Christine, it's. My father. Both professionally. And personally he, is a lifetime, entrepreneur. He. Has overcome, insurmountable. Obstacles. In his life. From. Like. I said before being orphaned, at a very young age his, parents, left him and his four brothers and sisters.
To. The state simply because they couldn't afford to take care of them and he. Was two years old at that point and he spent most of his young, childhood. Through his teenage years being. Bounced around between different, foster homes, he. Managed to get. Himself into, a trade school graduate, valedictorian. Of, his class go, on to Millersville, University, work. His way through school through various entrepreneurial. Incentives. Versus, whether he opened a canteen. Started a laundry business soul class rings and. Then. He, he went on to his career also, in an entrepreneurial, field and I will always remember when, I started college at Penn State I got. A call the, week after I got there and the. Company that my father was working with went under and he had a start from, scratch. The. Day his daughter started, college and he. Grew that business from, five hundred dollars to over five million dollars he acquired, a company or. Landed. A client. It was called LensCrafters, back, then they had two doors open, now. LensCrafters, is, the monopoly, in the optical, industry and, just. Seeing what he's done I. Admire. Him and I've hopefully, we've. Learned from him and be able to share that with my children, Thank. You Christine, that's nice homage, to your dad. But, I failed how about you in your business in your life. Well. For. Me as well as my, dad. I. Really. Want. To take this opportunity to, really, thanks. My dad who just, happened to be in heaven. But. I'm very thankful for everything, that he did he has been. My. I, guess, the, main reason why, I. Have. Been doing what I'm doing and, it. Is for the simple fact that when I asked. Him about over, 30 years ago to lend me twenty thousand dollars to, open up my first business, he. Said no to me, and I, knew that he had the money but. He said not to me he couldn't give me not when he couldn't give me fifty thousand if he wanted to but. I guess by, him saying not to me that. I took it as a challenge he, was more for me to, prove to, myself and, to prove to him that my. Business ideas, were right that it was that I was in the right track in the right path and I. Don't take it as an area the fact that he said not to me rather, than as, a great opportunity because, I, am Who I am anyway, thanks to him and I'm, very thankful to him and even my mom too because they. Only said to my dad used to say to me my son when. I die I might not be able to leave you a lot of money but. I'm gonna give you something I know what I can take away for you and that, is a great education. And I really thankful for my dad because I have who I am thanks Elaine great, and I know you have your daughters here and I'm sure they we heard the same about you, of course my daughter Iranian, Kiana they're twins and they're part of my team so alright. Buddy. Yeah about you, for. Me both my parents my. Father was. A banker and he. Was actually the founder, of our local, social club and Esteli that to this day is still going. Strong what. 45. Years later still there, he, was always involved. In the community, which. I learned a lot you know I have, done quite a bit of that myself, and my, mother. Was. A homemaker. Seven, kids very extremely difficult for her to to. Juggle. All that and. One, day she realized, that she didn't have enough enough. Money to, for. Her own personal expenses. So she decided, I'm just gonna start my own business out, of the house so she started, baking and she. Bought these awesome, Donuts that to this day I've never eaten any Donuts like she make them they were baked not. Fried and, then. She went on to baking, empanadas. And she made cakes and she, started, distributing. That throughout the town and then before we knew it she was selling to Managua, the capital, and I remember, driving with her to Managua to the supermarket, in delivery and the goods and and she. Worked really hard I will I saw her wake up at you know 3:00 4:00 in the morning to to. Get up and make the donuts and I. Just observed her being so strong and I watched, her work you know even when she was tired and I. Think to this day I'm, not only I'm, not only named up to her but I follow, her and her food her footsteps. I work, extremely hard until, I drop I get, up early I go to a bit late and so. I sometimes, I'm like why, do I do that, you know because I'm that the, apple doesn't fall far from the tree, we really become our parents and so. To me, you, know I come from a family of entrepreneurs. Doctors. And, artists. And so. It's. It's, natural for me to to, be that way and and, I I remember one, day my mother looked at me I was about 18 years old and she said looked, at me and said you.
Are Now a woman. From. Now on you will become independent and I, know that whatever you do in life you, will do well and so, I took that as my road, map I had. To you, know follow. In, her footsteps and, I have to follow her advice so, to me definitely my parents great. And I know you have your son Max, here who is your. Son, during the evening and your employee during the day yes yes. He saw actually, came with me and I say you're going with me and you will serve me and you will be. And. Insofar, he has and, is, he's been wonderful, and you. Know my dream is to pass on the torch that's, great well. Thank. You all so much I mean there's clearly so, many different. Stories but there's some commonalities. On those stories of influences. In in people's lives that. Leads to influences, to your business and so I, think, that that's really special, I'd. Like to jump now to your. Journey on getting. Financed, that's. What we're talking about that's the critical piece for most. Entrepreneurs and, so. I'm. Gonna ask you to kind of share that journey is to what, you've done whether. You know the good, things and maybe some of the challenges, and then, we'll come back to some of the things that were discussed earlier, so Christine, can can you talk a bit about that with your business how, much time do you have well let's keep it let's, keep it short let's, keep these two two-minute, answers so we can get to the the other stuff, financing. Is, is, a challenge, especially you, know not only for latino-owned. Businesses but. Then when you're a woman those challenges, are compounded. It. Is probably, the largest obstacle, that I know I face, as a company. Trying. To scale my business, lost. Many, contracts, with, very. Good. Companies. Fortune. 500, companies, because I haven't been able to fill the orders. Because you can't get the financing, or. If you do get the financing, it's not reasonable so, if you look at it at a project basis, and you. Only have so much time and resources to. Allocate to a project, if you're. Paying most. Of the profit, is going to pay for the capital, it doesn't make sense so. You really have to look at all aspects, of financing. And. Secure, reasonable. Capital, that's. Good for your business and also. Be. Willing to assume some of that risk that personal, risk because. As a Latino, business, owner you do have to assume, that personal. Guarantee, you. Have to be creative, and, and. Try. To look, for other resources that are not traditional, financing outlets. So. Along those lines you know one of the things that was brought up about the difference between using, personal credit, and business, credit were. You surprised, by that finding, or. Were. You aware of that, distinction. For. Me personally personal. Credit has always been, you. Know part of the financial package whether. It's been traditional. Institutions. Or even private, funding. Situations. I've always had to do personal, guarantees, and credit, was always an issue so I wasn't really surprised about that I've encountered that okay. I fell. You started a little. Bit with your story about, getting. Your business started under financing but just in general I mean how has your journey around financing, the business where you are today, why.
Is That gone, it's. Been rough it's been very rough. I'm, a fighter I don't know I, haven't mean I wouldn't, say lucky enough to find funding. But, for. Me it is more than clear that. Banks. Don't lend money to people, that. Are looking for money that's. Been my experience, I. Lend. Money to people the, half-mourning the bank account they see that you have a hundred thousand, three, hundred thousand, then lend you all you need you need line, of credit you need money they'll, then make caravello for you but every, time I needed money and I approached a bank. I haven't, been lucky enough so I have to really be creative as a Latino you know always we. Always like to be created, of the. Way I built my business it was in. A way it was just laser. Focus, on providing, good quality services, to our clients for. For, a very reasonable price and being, able to generate that income if you understand the tax preparation industry, it is a season, so you have to be very creative I generate, a lot of money the right you, know during the first three months and then, I need to budget for the rest of the year so I, mean the franchising, business franchising. Is really tough I require. A lot of money to get him to invest in it what happened to be lucky enough that I develop, a pretty good. Practice. Preparation, practice I do just. My own corporate locations, over 12,000, clients, I generate, 2 to 3 million dollars in 3 months and most, of the money I just invested, back into the franchise so I literally build. It with, with my hands my sweat and blood I haven't been lucky enough and I know that there are a lot of people, that have a way to figure it out how, to penetrate sometimes. I feel like maybe I am discriminated, I guess banks don't like me for one way or another but. But it's ok it's ok because you know I have been able, to survive and be able to do pretty well I like. You. Buddy. Yeah about, your journey I. Started. My company with, $300. A fax machine a computer like, you know most most entrepreneurs. Do and I. Seem. Like. Started. Trying. To build my personal, credit to make sure that you know preparing for that when I really needed to you know have. A lot of capital to make, the skill the business I'm. Going to tell a story back, in 2008. When the, economy economy. Was very. It, was horrible, you know it was a recession, in the United States was. The year that I was awarded, at large, million-dollar, contract, about 2 million and I. Had, you, know no no. Money to go buy a truck, not, even for a down payment, and. I remember, I, gather. Enough money and. Because, you know you don't get paid from the from, the government, or or the for, 3-4 months you, have to perform and then you have to wait until you get funding or have, income, and I. Call, my local bank they have seen that I had you know a mortgage, that I had paid my bills and I had, a credit card and they saw that I you know my personal, credit was good but when it came to buying. That large equipment. That roll-off truck, my. Bank said not, unless, you put your house off for collateral, and, I remember, I was at the job site and I remember walking and I got so mad and I said absolutely, not you are not touching my house absolutely. Not, I said, the truck is collateral. Not. My home this is a business transaction this is not a personal, transaction, and. So I said this conversation, is over so I called, the local. Mac. Dealer and they said Mac financials. Will you. Know will loan you the money the, the truck is collateral so. Within two days I got the loan and the. Funny thing is within about a year, when, the banks started to see how much money was coming into the account they started calling me and offering.
Me Alone. Still. Call me and. I tell them no thanks you didn't come through for me when I needed you so it was extremely challenging. I've, been very fortunate to, grow the business to the level that you. Know started with one truck now I'm up to eight, and I'm looking. For my building on another truck, because, I offer, different services from, front load rear load I have panel trucks I have equipment that I ran I've, really, expended the business to many different services, like total waste management, so. Now, it's getting better because I have a lot of collateral, you, know so banks. Are now looking to to. Loan me money but, when. I started, with extremely, difficult, I had to max all my credit cards and even, the the line of credit on my home I had to use some of that and I was able to pay it back I was, very disciplined. You know and. So, but. Yeah it was very difficult very, difficult yeah. Thank You Dirk. Well. I remember, when, when. We started funding the company ourselves, we used our personal credit cards bought, materials and, the first check we deposited, in the bank was the completion of a wiring, job in a building in Baltimore. And we. Essentially, organically. Funded, ourselves for about 10 years without, looking. For money and. We got into some serious cashflow issues, when. We started getting large commercial contracts, where, some. Of these companies were fortune 500, they wouldn't pay us for 90 days 120, days we had vendors. Calling us for payments, we, had payroll to make a lot of sleepless nights and that's, when I learned that we should have applied, a lot earlier for a line of credit and. We. Started, a plank for line of credit but because we hadn't had a track record they. Asked us to for. Personal guarantees, they didn't give, us the amount that we needed we thought we needed about a half a million. We ended up finally after talking about 12 different banks we got one that would give us about, a quarter, million and. We had to put up our houses, as collateral so. That pretty typical and. We. We. Essentially that's about the only financing, we've gotten thus far and it's it's still inhibiting. Our growth in my opinion, there, are a lot of contracts, in a construction field, that we aren't able to bid on because we don't have the. Right financial backing so access, to capital has, always been a struggle. We also after. I was. Part. Of slope the. The, Latino. Program pier, we. Went through an acquisition process. And, self-funded, that as well and that, ended up being very disastrous for our cash flow situation and and, so you. Know we've learned the hard way for sure so sure no, thank you so. The, journeys have all been sort of mixed but fraught. With you, know some. Challenges. And just got to keep fighting through those and in. Some, cases there's, a, you. Know opportunity, for entrepreneurs to sort of educate, themselves to us as to how to. Go. Down that path as, well, but. Let's touch a little bit on some of the characteristics. That are that are correlated, to scaling. One, of them is certification. And, my. Dad that's really important, for your business can you talk a little bit about that. Aspect. Yes. Early. On I, found. Out that when. I started my company that I could get certified, as a minority-owned, company, but, I needed three months of financial, statements, in order to to. Prove that I was established. Company, so immediately. I remember, when they came to my office. The. Day I incorporated, my company, was the day I found out I was pregnant with my youngest son, and I. Remember, when. They came to my office to. Audit, me that minority Michigan, minority I was nursing my son and. And. Then, and. Then he got stuck out even we had a snowstorm and, then I had to go outside and help him jumpstart the car and you, know and, then, he said you know there's no doubt that you you're you, are running the business you know you tell.
You So you're fine you, you will become certified so. Then you know I started you know networking. Building opportunities. And I started also. Really. Trying to find organizations that, I could become, involved and, volunteer so. I joined a, building Association, which was actually mostly, run by men but. I was one of the few women that became up you, know a member, and, because. A lot of the regular. Members were building management companies, and so I wanted to target, to the to that industry and, you. Know when you network, you start finding out what it's out there and then. I realized, that the I. Used to do a lot of recycling. For the FAA all the towers, throughout Michigan, and the, contracting, officer, called me one day and he said she said Maria I would love to give you more business but. I'm kind of limited to what I can give, you but. There's this program, at the SBA called a day that really you qualify, so. I, call, the SBA went, to the orientation. And I became certified. And, I, believe 2002. And, I, remember, you. Have to prove to the SBA that you're economically. Disadvantaged. I remember, they asked me that one question that was the key question, why, are you economically. Disadvantaged. And I, said well first of all in the waste management, industry I am, extremely, small I don't. Have the capital and, it. They are my largest competitor, and it was like one-liner, you, know and, something. Like that I answer. To them and I became certified and. So. You, know it was a wonderful program because, it taught a lot about about. Accounting. How, to do business with the government how to write proposals and. I. Was. As I was a subcontractor. To the Army and the Air National Guard, and Mission, Michigan and, they. Wanted. A contractor. Who could do recycling. And trash removal. And, I, remember the SBA called me and said there's this contract, and, it's pretty large would, you be interested in doing the contract, and and. I said I don't do trash I do recycling. But at that moment I realize I need to scale my business to the next level so I said yes. And. Then then. They said what are you gonna do with that truck when you're done with the contract, I said I'll figure it out I'll cross that bridge when I come to it yeah so. So. I Here I am you, know a few, trucks later but, it's been 30. My, certifications. I also got certified through MDOT and. So. It's been a great. Verifications. Have been a great opportunity very critical for your growth so great. One. Of the other ones is exporting. And Christine. You've got some experience with that can. You tell us a little bit about how that's helped you with scaling, so. That really, takes your company, you, know from being a national, company to be a global, company, and. We. Have relationships with. Different. Distributors. That, has allowed us to export, our products, to Canada. Japan, UK, and, Mexico. I consider. We started, exporting our. Goods, are to Puerto, Rico years, ago. And now. With, our new office there we're hoping to take that to be able to that. Office, to start, exporting. To. The Caribbean, and Latin American, countries, and, kind. Of coinciding. With exporting. Is, we. Would also have, a big manufacturing, initiative, so. We're looking at some of our higher, volume items, to. Manufacture. In Puerto Rico and. That's. An that helps there's, a lot of government, incentives, for, not only exporting, your goods and services, but also for. Manufacturing. Your goods and services so those are things we're able to take advantage of great, Christine, thanks for that example. Derek. One. Of the specific pointers around technology can, you talk a little bit about that because it applies to you yeah, absolutely so, in.
The Technology, world that's, obviously. Ever-evolving, it's, it's very hard to keep the staff up-to-date, with. The latest technologies. So we invest a lot in training and research and development and. And, to scale and. It really requires. Big. Invest in that area so that's, been one of our struggles, another, struggle that we've had is, as I mentioned before with some, of those larger contracts, having a hardware software mix it's a little bit different than a software company that scales very easily a, lot of technology. Hardware these days is very low margin and. In order to get some of those larger contracts, you have to be able to have. Very long terms with, your vendors and yet they're very strong partnerships, so we've been fortunate enough to have. Very strong partnerships, with some of our manufacturer, vendors that will, sometimes for a specific deal help us along and. You. Have to get very creative when. You're that that mix of hardware software so, great, and then. One of the other ones that I'm going to throw to you Raphael is around the, formal, networks, and. The relationships. The. Chambers, of commerce all that how. That. The play out of your scaling, well, I I really, I rather, focus more in the franchising. Aspect. Of it, but question up that's one no no not at all it's related, talk. About the franchisee that's, really important in order for me to get to the franchising, component. Of my, my business. Experience he, has is, as it was all about all, the networking to the chambers of commerce all, the different associations I don't. Know about you guys but at one point I I was running political campaigns, in, my part of town in Washington Heights I became the. President of the Democratic Club I'm a Democrat, would respect with anyone, else but, I the, reality that well it was by becoming, or getting involved in politics, I was able to get to know every, single person in the neighborhood all this, Oh block by block building, by building I knew, that the superintendent the leaders and within the community, but, I remember when I decided to take the business to the next level literally, what happened with me was that my business went completely out of control and viral. Doing, more than 10,000 tax return back, in 2003. 2004. And, I. Wanted to take the business to the next level so I realized that the best vehicle, to get there it, was by either opening, up copper. Locations, or franchising. I decided to utilize the. Vehicle the vehicle of, franchising, and I remember, how, excited was when when, we finally were granted, green. Light to be able to franchise, our company, franchising. It, is a very heavily regulated industry by. Both the federal government and the state the Attorney General is the one that I approve H francese. And each state, has their own rules or, regulations related, to franchising. Franchising. Is something that is really well monitored, by the government and if you don't follow the rules you will not be allowed to sell or operate. Franchises, in every single state so, I'm. Very happy to be part of that industry and at the same time I feel kind of lonely guys because, I've been in the, franchise in industry for almost like 12 years already and I. Don't see Latinos I'm part of the International, Franchise Association, my. Notary my notary they are of, 3,500. 3,500, franchise. Concepts. Meaning franchise soul included, mcdonalds, dunkun doughnuts or the big ones mine, ordering on are about like 15 or 10 and the majority, are former. Afro-american. American, football players I retired all the money and they invested the money in franchising, Latino Bluebird not Latino. That I've seen is about five or six not, even ten Latinos, are franchised. So nationwide, and I really want to congratulate their to let our franchises all here Nick, Lugo from.
Toro Tax and also Javier. Solis their, franchisor, and all, of you I will, encourage you to whatever, business you guys are in please, try to utilize the vehicle of franchising, because franchising, it is a foreign, language for Latino, but, the rewards. The possibility. Are in are tremendous, and we we have the numbers but we don't really take advantage because, since I launched, my franchise 12, minutes 12 years ago I don't, know anybody else that have really launched any new franchise, concept whether it is a restaurant, or a technology. Industry. Or perhaps a retail. Or. I don't know I don't see people don't see Latino, really embracing. The Latino in, the franchising. Industry yeah, thank. You very much. Please. Give a round of applause to our panelists. They were fantastic. And. I think we're going to transition, to a a, very, quick QA. Yes. Yes again thank you so much the panelists, and thank you to everybody on Twitter who has been who has been engaging in this great conversation again, if you have any questions, we have about five, minutes for questions if you could tweet your question, to, Twitter Stanford, Sol Sol, e I'll be picking up questions from there so, the first question I'm gonna ask comes from Antonio, altamirano, what. Did you do differently to keep growing your business once, you hit the first one million dollar mark in yearly revenue, and anyone, can feel free to answer the question. What's. It well. You always have to keep looking, for new channels. Of distribution. Changing. With the environment and the economy, so. One, of the things that we do is we continuously. Look for new opportunities and, if you don't look for those new opportunities, then. Your business becomes stagnant and other. Issues arise, so, really, one of the things that we do is continuously, look outside, of our comfort zone and see, how we can use what we're doing, successfully. And channel, that to other areas of distribution, I. Remember. The first I remember, the moment when when. My company you read of the first $1,000,000. That was really an amazing, moment. For me, on my team because I always like to say that the. Result that that have achieved is not just me by myself I happened. To be lucky enough to be surrounded by an.
Amazing Team, of people. Some of them believe it or not I met her like over. 30 years ago in college and they still collaborating and working with us but what it's all about it's. All about being able to keep. Pushing the envelope keep, growing taking. Risks, yes, you made it to one meal and then you want to go to the next level to the next level you, know I really want to thanks the El the, Latino, business, Action Network because. Thanks to them I was able to relearn, how do we scale my company, and as a result since I took that particular, class I opened, up I decided to move forward and open up a second, headquarters, now here in, our back yard in San Francisco, and continue. Scaling up and growing the company but it's all is that that, goal of keep pushing you, make 1 million now let's go to two you made two let's go to 5 5, 10 and this is what you guys are really teaching and promoting you guys. Thank. You move. On to another question we have a lot of great questions coming in um the next question comes from Mario, Carrasco. How has your Latin, ex background, shape your entrepreneurial, journey. Jarek. Well. My. Business partner is, Latin. As well and. What. I've seen, in the business is that we're very passionate and and we. We. Just have this Latino. Drive that, some people can handle so. It's really shaped the type of employees, that can handle a very, heated argument but, then getting. Over at the next day like nothing happened, some. People just I. Know they look at us and they're like you guys need couples, therapy. You. Know it's, it's. Really shaped. Some of the culture and and and up. The game on what people can can, tolerate. For. Our business. Thank. You and we, actually have a question for Maria from. Roma Montenegro, this, Makaha, thanks you for example, and is wondering what you see is the future in your industry. One. Of the things that I'm doing as a matter of fact right now I'm starting, another company, it's. Gonna, be basically, unlimited services. A total, waste management, because. What I'm seeing is that my customers. Really have a need to. Be. Sustainability. Is a great part of the any. Company, institution. They. Also need, more, minority, participation. And. They, also need, really. To have one company manage all of their waste and, recycling, so, I want to start not only working nationally. But, globally and. Start. Helping. Entrepreneurs. Woman. Owned companies, veterans, a small, business. Disabled. Veterans. To. Really you. Know in subcontract. Them and use their services, in and I will be like the the, main company, overseeing, doing, all the reporting, because part of it a lot of my customers as recycling, reporting, is extremely, important. The, industry, is changing it's, always evolving so, that's where I see the future in. My company right now and that's what I'm currently working on, great. Thank. You all very much please let's thank our panelists, one more time. Thank. You, you. Are a tremendous. Embodiment. Of our. 432. Alumni. Of the Stanford Latino, entrepreneurship, initiative education, scaling program, and. Victor. Thank you for being a model chairman, thank you so much for moderating now. We are going to pivot to our fireside, chat and we conclude, our forum with, this compelling conversation. Between, psaltery, Hill and Nick, Bailey Saul. Astir served, as chief executive officer of, 350. Billion dollar companies, each, located. On a different continent, he. Is the co-founder and, chair of the Latino donor, collaborative. The, LDC, founder. And chairman, of the Trujillo group LLC, and our board member Nick. Most, recently served as CEO for century 21 real estate, the world's, largest real, estate franchise. And has over 22, years of leadership, experience in, real estate franchising. Brokerage. And Technology, ladies, and gentlemen we welcome Saul and Nick to the stage thank you. I'm. Not gonna spend a lot of time talking about Nick. Because. I think all of you have a bio, and all that sort of thing but. I do, have to say a few things number. One the purpose of this is this, session is always, to talk about business, it's. Always to talk about entrepreneurship, and it's. Always to talk about kind. Of the relevant, topics that you just heard Victor.
And His session, just. Cover and, what. We had in terms of the research now Nick, is a. Person, that became an entrepreneur in his teenage. Years. Focused. In the real estate space. And he. Started using some of his own capital and started creating capital, and and had. Many of these same issues that all of us have had in our business lives and, then. Fast-forward. Maybe. A couple. Decades and he. Ends up as kind of a senior. Executive in one of the hot startups. Called. Zillow that many. Of you have probably read about and, heard about shaking, their heads, as. Essentially. You. Know this is this is kind of breaking the model. Innovating. Around opportunity. And essentially. Thinking differently and then, most recently, he. Became the CEO of century, 21 and, century. 21 some of us remember when they were just a domestic company and now. They're a company, that operates, out of 80 countries. 80, countries and. Buku. Number of. Locations. Employees. Etc. But. I think the most important, thing that that. When we were talking those. Of us that are on the advisory. Board here we talked about every. Year we always want to bring in somebody that's an entrepreneur, an, entrepreneurship. Can be in very. Small. Startups, and it. Can be in big companies and those. Who have had the experience of doing both are. Really people that might have some insights for everybody here so, let, me let. Me ask all of you to help me welcome Nick, in an, official, way Thanks. So. Nick we're good we're gonna go very rapid, fire here so tell us about. Starting, out as a 17, year old entrepreneur and, and, why, you became, a business, person. At, that age when most people were just playing around and and maybe, going on to college and doing some things that that. Wasn't. Focused, on creating wealth at that early, age good, question thanks for having me and I applaud, you for doing, this I think. Awareness is, number one and having the the conversation yes. So first of all for me as an entrepreneur it did start young I don't. Know why either but I started. When I was 13 as, a kid mowing, lawns and I spent a summer and I say 1,500 bucks and I bought my first car when I was 13, and so. Like Raphael, you talk to your dad and say dad I'm gonna buy a car no. You're not yes. I am. And. You get cash and they'll sell it to you so, and. I got my driver's license at 14 I was living in Wyoming at the time and. That. Started this I. Kind. Of adventure, on wow, you can do this you can save and you can buy and so, I actually started a business a little later when I was 15, and it was about teaching children you, and I have not talked a lot about that but.
What Was interesting is, I, also worked a Pizza Hut for a small, stint, and I remember the local newspaper put out an article and it said 16, year old puts aside pizza, to be an entrepreneur I didn't. Know what the word entrepreneur meant. And. It was interesting so as I went through this real. Estate caught my eye and I had this business and I needed a place to rent and. So this. Led me into buying to, commercial, buildings when I was 17 and you. Know the nerdy redhead, in band that plays the saxophone, not. Really on the cool factor well, one, of the buildings, had the hottest pizza, place in town where all, the kids went in high school to have pizza I became. The landlord, of that place yet and got, free pizza at 17. And my, cool factor went like this, and. Then when I was 18 I bought my first house. Because. I any of you have kids that you've paid for living, on a college campus, no, offense Stanford. I looked, at it and said one semester, was a down payment so I bought a house two and a half blocks from the campus. Four. Bedrooms rented, two bedrooms, and for. A couple of years until I could afford to pay for it so that was my start into real estate and then got licensed, at 21 and. All. They had to say to me is a, part-time. Kid. Will. Never be successful in, the real estate business I. Wish. They were alive to see how it turned out and. And. So, I got into real estate and within 90 days being licensed the number one broker in the area we opened a brokerage, and we partnered and that. Led me into a company, many of you know Remax, for 12 years and so the thing about real estate is every real estate agent is an entrepreneur. They're. Independent, contractors every. Person. That owns a real estate brokerage, is an, entrepreneur, but. I was fortunate enough to. Have parents even though my father had a corporate job I was surrounded by they. Always had businesses. And I. Knew that as a result, of that I never had to be the smartest one in the room I just knew I had to outwork, them and, so. A quick, story I'll tell I know we run lightning round I started, dating my wife in eighth grade. That's. Where you go on and. And. She. To this yeah. Yeah to. This day if she was sitting here she would tell you our Friday and Saturday night dates, consisted.
Of Waxing. Floors and. Cleaning. And we make fun of it to this day if. She was here we'd be saying. And. She she looks, like Faith Hill I swear. Yeah. The. Dorky redhead doesn't get in, nevermind, that's a different panel, but, anyway so it was through hard work so it was all about entrepreneurship. And and, I didn't know it was happening at the time but. You fast-forward that and you look at century. 21 yeah, 80 countries. We. Have a hundred and twenty eight thousand, people in ninety, four hundred locations. And. Once. You see. How business and how people, and culture, is done, everywhere. It. Changes, how your, responsibilities. Of a leader here in the US opens. Opportunities for, other entrepreneurs, so. That's that's a great, segue. Because. I, think. We just heard from. You. Know the last session that, leadership. Really does matter so when you're innovating, and you're thinking about. Extending. Your business when you're moving on from where, you started, on to other. Platforms. You're. Doing it as a leader because you're thinking about opportunities, so. When you talk about leadership, then, and now, as you've, you. Know aged. A little more you're past saying you. Know you're going on to a company like century, 21 how. When. You took an old company and, it's. An old company it's an old traditional. Company and you, thought about entering in, what were you thinking after coming from zillow yeah. Great question here you're coming from high tech move fast and I am someone that I think it's because I only required three to four hours of sleep it allowed me to work more than other people I'm, just wired and I like to move fast and can't sit still you put, me in the front row like that on purpose or else I would have been wandering around here. You. Take those learnings and apply it this is a 47. Year old brand, and. With that comes an awesome responsibility, of impacting. Hundreds. Of thousands, of people but. Yet you also have to look at the the, future in. Ways, that let's. Look at how it impacts. The Latino, and the Hispanic communities by 2020. The, number one demographic, of first-time homebuyers will be Hispanics, in this country. Last. Year. Thank. You Rafael that's right. But. So, I want to stop you just for a second let's say it again some, people think twenty fifty and they know twenty twenty about all these other dates, it. Is today, it's, twenty nineteen ladies and gentlemen by, 2020. So look forty two percent of all home buyers last year were first-time homebuyers. Seventy. Eight percent were 37 years old or younger and the, number, one demographic in, less than twenty four months will be Hispanics, now, okay, great we know the data the, question on leadership and this is where I believe that leaders, have a responsibility, to. Fill, the gaps, so. We know this is happening in real estate and hopefully this will apply to how, the, data was presented, we. Also know that this is a fast-growing demographic. We know that they are a young, demographic and we know that many have credit challenges. We. Also know that I, am so fortunate that real estate has, just been an awesome business, for women it, has been for decades. So. Last, year we announced an initiative to say okay we see the data now what are we gonna do with it and we. Launched in Miami as the first market, an, initiative called empowering, Latinas. And it. Was a scholarship, program in which we provided, scholarships to, 100. Latinas. To go through real estate school, and get connected to.
Having A real estate career and. I'm, so proud of the fact you look at an individual. That I worked with at Remax, back, in 2004. She. Didn't have the credit she, had the drive and you looked in her eyes and you knew that she was a powerhouse and I'm. So proud that this year Daisy Sid Lopez, from Florida she, is the president of the. National, Association of Hispanic real estate association and. It. Was all through her start, of saying I'm gonna own a real estate company so, that's one, example now, the second, part is we know that there's credit issues so. I just spoke to a company and this is in process. With. Century 21 and it says former, I should probably explain that, I'm. Actually looking at buying, a company, myself so I did announce my resignation just. A few weeks ago and. I'll be leaving century 21 on March 1st but that's. What entrepreneurs do, they, they, go and create and are crazy so. That's why it says former, if you're confused but. I'll, speak to it I've only run five companies myself, so I'll see you I'm not lifelong, kind of stuff and that's, part of what I call living, in the 21st century not. Living in the past century love, it do you mind if I steal that I. Have. Lots of phrases lots and ideas, I'm. A copycat, artist, I'll take it. But, anyway so you look at this I just spoke to a company a couple of months ago that we're working this and this isn't baked yet but this organization, works on credit not like credit repair, companies, you, have individuals, that are first-time homebuyers, you. Have Latinos. That are saying I want to purchase a house with my credit score isn't there I'm currently renting what. This company, does is they contact, your landlord either. For the past 24, months if there's consistency or, you start today because. If you're familiar with credit. Renting. Has. Not historically been, something. That's a data point that affects your credit score. You. Can pay, $99. To them to get the past two years of your landlords, data and within, seven, to ten days they can up your credit, score thirty to fifty points. Now. That, changes the lives of, a, Latino homebuyer. That, either gets the house or doesn't, so. That to me saw is where as leaders, we, can't just say this is the problem. Love, the data, now. What are you gonna do about it so, the combination, of I share, examples of saying the. Scholarship, program empowering, Latinas, that we just also move to a second market and then let's also be part of the solution, to fix those. That need help with credit it's not that they're not worthy, it's. That they just either don't have the knowledge or the history. That. Should be easy to fix and. That's really important, and again as part of the conversation, here today is that you. Know we we heard about innovation. We heard about breaking rules breaking, barriers, doing, things. Untraditionally. I was going to say untraditionally. I don't, know there's such a thing is that but non-traditionally, and so. You. Know regardless. Of what size your company, is. Innovation. And breakthrough, can, occur, depending. Upon you and, that's. Really part of the key message here when I met Nick. We. Invited him to a session, that that. A person, named Gary Acosta and I have put, on called latitude, we. Bright in inviting, CEOs, and, economists, and tech. People and, even. Politicians. We allow them in. You. Know at a national, level to talk about things and one. Of the things that struck me was, it as one of our CEO discussions. We. Had Nick on and. I. Hadn't. Really gotten to know Nick I knew of him and. All of a sudden those. Of you that know me I'm a very, data-centric. Person. And, and. I love facts and data running, companies, that's. The best way to do it because eight, and a half times. Out of ten you're, gonna beat your competition if, you know more than they do period. In this story not. Every time but eight and a half times out of ten so. So. I've. Been spending a lot of time trying to help a lot of people, CEOs. Economists. Politicians understand. What. 21st, century America, looks like. As. Opposed. To 20th century. And. There's two driver variables, one is that we're now into, full digital economy. Everything. We do is now, either, there, or in, process, in terms, of digitizing, how everything, happens including. Operationally. And, the second thing is, the. Demographics. Of, who. We, are who. Those are that are driving the business and so, I have, you tolerate, me one more minute if we look if we look at who's driving, growth today I can, tell you that in the retail sector of our economy over. 90%, of year on your sales growth for all the big players. Is tied, to the u.s. Latino cohort, I can. Tell you in the automotive sector when. You look at the net sales, growth it's. Almost a hundred percent tied to the u.s. Latino cohort, and I can go on and on sector by sector and, I have real data, not. Not. Interpolated.
Research, But, actual, sales, data. From. These companies. And. They're. Sharing it because they're rethinking how. They do what they do and that's, really the point here that Nick, is making, which is you. Can have data, right. As you. Run, the. Businesses, that you run, but. The question is is what do you do with it how, do you operationalize, it and that's, really the point about what Nick just he. Blew me away when he talked about that because it's one of those where. You sit there and you hit your head and you say how come nobody thought about that before and that's. What you know many. Of you are doing in your businesses, today so. Nick as you think about this. Powerful. Data, about. Who the consumers, are in, your industry and, how, people need to think differently. Right. Whether it be the, the. Franchise, owners whether it be the salespeople, whoever. Might be including, the bankers, now. You've come up with one solution but, what other things do you think about as we evolve, into, this. 21st. Century and in. Basically, the 20s now as we as we look forward right, one. Is I think in what I congratulate, you on this is making, awareness, number one because most people just don't get it and there are even some of my cohorts, that run other big companies in real estate and have, no idea what, the. Population. That's buying homes is going to look like in three years and, I've. Said wait three, or four years then you're gonna see companies all over the place talking about it so you've got to be ahead but. Let's talk about mindset here's, the one thing that I would say is one. Leadership, has to execute, what. Are you going to do with it we talked about that but the second, is it's, also the consumer, side on all of us that if you're looking let's use credit as an example and I'll share a personal way I look at we. Know that there are challenges we, know that there's risk aversion we know that there are parameters and which people loan money I, have. Grown up and by, the way not a silver spoon I grew, up in a middle-class family I had hard-working parents. That. Ended up doing well but. People. Said well how did you buy real estate at 17, well. I wanted to rent the space they wouldn't rent it and I said well I could buy it but I don't have anything down but if I buy, it it'll be more money than you would have anyway, because you, took. The property back and. So. There, are ways around it and I look, at credit as a mindset, I see it with homeownership and I see it in business funding, that. People say gosh. I hope I get the loan I look. At it completely differently, ladies, and gentlemen people sell money. Stop. At the convenience, store and buy a bag of chips and there's called profit, that's built in people. Sell money and the profit that's built in is interest, I have. Always, never gone to one person, when I needed a loan I've, gone to two or three and let. Them earn my, business. That. Sounds, kind of arrogant, but. I want, to put that out there because keep in mind if you position yourself with. Hard work a good credit score, they're. Selling you money and, really. Yours and saying well the bank's calling me now, exactly. Because. They want to sell you money and so, it's. The. Data shows the number of people that apply and get first. We saw the data that don't apply second. That do apply and get turned down once. They. Don't ask anyone else. Don't. Stop it asking one person, but don't ask one at a time if. You're gonna go to a bank go, to three and you. Negotiate with them it's, all that's interesting, at four and a half percent because, this, one's doing it for four and I'll, end up at three and a half.
You're. In charge of buying the money because they're selling it and that is a mind, shift versus, I hope, I get the loan yeah. So, and, so that's an important, I think lesson. For everybody, anybody. That's selling money. They. Buy it at a certain rate. And they're. Selling