Short Put Verticals and Long Call Verticals | Trading a Smaller Account
all right good morning everyone welcome to trading a smaller account uh we have had a three week hiatus as uh james boyd and a special guest from the cboe took over this class to talk about trading index options and while we learned a lot i've got to confess i'm delighted to be back with all of you um and so today we have a jam-packed class so stick around there's a lot of awesome stuff about to come your way [Music] all righty well i want to start by greeting and thanking each and every one of you who makes this class so special by showing up coffee in hand ready to roll every friday morning when the market opens good morning to vijay and krishna and krista and make money and john and bill and frank and pete and mia and monica and mansoor and greg and you know lou and janet and jeff and kj and michael and larry and the rest of the gang it is great to have you on board we also have the privilege of having brent moore's with us in the chat today so he brings a wealth of experience with him and has a lot to add if you have questions don't hesitate to ask in between brent and i hopefully we've got the answers you are looking for well you may not be looking for that answer but you know hopefully we've got answers for you if you are one of the thousands that catches this in the archives know that you two can ask questions all you have to do is type that into the comment section and you if you loved it you can type that in too and what that does is it just helps more people find this kind of content that we are out there offering the last way that we get to communicate with you and you can communicate with us is through the world of twitter so right above my head at the armstrong underscore tda brent moore's handle is at b moore's underscore tda and we are posting you know news you can use on a daily basis it is furry and you are missing out my friends if you are not choosing to take advantage of that i will say no more i'll hop down off my pedestal okay so this is an intermediate level class we talk about lots of different trading strategies in this class if i'm talking about a strategy you don't understand please type something into the chat but know that on tuesdays at high noon i teach getting started with options and almost every strategy we talk about in this class i do an introductory level um you know an introduction to that concept um on tuesday so you can tap into the archives for that in any event all of what we talk about today it's for education informational purposes only none of it to be construed as a recommendation on the part of td ameritrade all myself also know options not suitable for all investors there are special risks inherent to trading options that may expose investors to potentially rapid and substantial losses we talk about that each and every week in this class what can you make what can you lose if you're new to td ameritrade you have to apply for option trading privileges and not all will qualify same thing with futures you have to try uh apply for futures trading privileges also know that all investing involves risk including the risk of loss okay doki onto our menu for today and i mean doesn't this look similar we're going to have a quick look at what's going on in the markets from you know a 10 000 foot perspective we're going to look at the indexes we're going to review a few of our favorite positions now of our previous positions we haven't been together for three weeks the last three weeks so if there was a position that was on your going i wonder what happened to that or how she handled it in the long options class on monday we've been kind of sneaking the last 10 minutes of the class to kind of manage trades and to put new trades on please type into the chat a ticker symbol that you were if you want me to review a previous trade we're going to talk about the russell the iron condors we had on the russell and we're going to talk about a trade i just put on on netflix because someone asked me to um if there are others let me know otherwise i'm going to manage what we currently have in in our portfolio and um and then we're going to look at adding some new trades okay so looks remarkably similar this menu from week to week right okay so let's get over to the thinkorswim platform where the magic happens we we started the year with a 20 000 account we're up to thirty thousand now five hundred and fourteen dollars so you know we've grown the account by fifty percent which you know isn't half bad now you know could we be in a losing position in this account it is possible but you know the market has been very bullish we've traded a lot of trades in our 45 minutes a week that we have together and over the last three weeks in the other classes i've been teaching i've been adding additional positions to this this account um so i will post on facebook today i'll pin it to the top um the other classes i teach so what i may do through the end of the year is continue to add positions to this as appropriate meeting our trading parameters in this class so you may want to you know have a look at those okay i'm going to write down a couple of other ticker symbols i don't think i've traded abb um in any class new paypal i don't think i've traded tsm either and i'm not sure about paypal and amc i've we haven't done any trades on amc i'm talking about reviewing you know trades that we've placed in other classes frenchie okay but you know we can go and and look at some of these okay so uh we're going to start by looking at we're going to start by looking at the s p 500 or the spx so you know we can see when we look at this index that you know it this is a a six month chart it has certainly been up trending if we back the truck up and we go out two years i mean we've gone from this low after the debacle or the you know this major pullback um back in march and april of of 2020 it's been quite a run and then you know when we come in and we look at the last three months or so we did have a bit of a pullback here six to seven percent this is october first you know so october was a pretty spectacular month or a pretty bullish month and then we saw this you know three-day pullback but like i said in our portfolio management basics yesterday what do we see here both flag another bull flag and it looks like it's trying to lift off this 10-day moving average yeah hey frenchie absolutely no problem and welcome to the class um because you know what for some people this may just be a session that they attend one time but for other people they subscribe to this channel they show up every friday and we all kind of link arms together and we are going down this road and figuring stuff out yeah yeah yeah any kind i would like to be backing up any kind of truck i now live in a utah uh you know i drive a mercedes and it's lovely but it's you know it's a regular old car and you know when you're going into the national parks i wish i had like the height you know i wish i was driving a truck that's all i can tell you okay so um s p 500 you know within a stone's throw of all-time highs some technicians might look at this and say you know bull flag uh pattern potentially setting up we don't have a close above the high of the whole uh low day yet when we come and we look at the nasdaq pretty similar pattern right um this pullback was a little more aggressive you know let me just change my drawing tools i was getting some charts ready you know this was more like eight nine percent not quite correction territory but then look at the recovery you know up 15 in 25 trading days and so you know a lot of technicians again they would look at that and say you know what do i spy with my little eye well i'm looking at both leg now has it come through yet and today it's pulling back you know so some might be saying hey i was looking for a bounce you know but it it's you know maybe it's going to turn into a bull flag and a stiff wind and maybe this index is going to start pulling back i mean we don't know we can't trade what we think we can just trade what we see but one of the things if we look back in time and i don't have the numbers for the nasdaq but um if we come out to twitter okay i'm sorry i couldn't resist posting that last night you know so many people struggle trying to get all their clocks changed and they're running around as they're glancing at their clocks they're going oh you know did i um change that or not but yesterday mike fairborne had posted back in september a chart the s p 500 average prices over the last 77 years so from 1944 so we're thinking talking second world war time frame here to you know august of this year and over the last 77 years uh april tends to be strong but what other two what are the next two strongest months november and december and then january so does this mean that these are going to be the strongest months um you know coming up no but over the last 77 years this has been you know um how things have panned out thus far and then he also posted something on the russell that i thought was very interesting and we're going to talk about the russell in just a minute um but small caps and the the results are even more dramatic november and december and this is only over 20 some years i think from 78 to 2021 so 24 years 23 years um but you know on average up by two and a half percent and december on average you know up by over two percent as well and then january also strong and april so go figure yeah so lou we may have placed a trade um james and our guests from the cboe may have placed trades on the spx we have not done that but we could but we could so um and we're going to kind of incorporate more of that in into this class anyway you know this is just some of the you know types of content and then i tend to post you know try and post something on a particular stock on close to a daily basis this was an example of you know something that was breaking out above resistance this was freeport mcmorren which we actually have in our portfolio um we don't talk about it very often because we have a we have a long stock position um with that one okay okay oh yeah i guess i did yes you're right 43 years yeah you see anyone can trade like if my math skills are what they are and i i can somehow muddle through this i think we can all do something with this right if we choose to you know stay with it and the beautiful thing about td ameritrade is we have this thinker swim platform um so okay let's go to the dao and the dao has been you know yesterday was kind of an outlier but again you know this was trading in a range if i back things up a little bit um you know it it's it's been trading in a range and then it broke out with you know some gusto right like had a one a whole whopping one day pullback and then took off again and you know we're seeing today thus far and today's candle is just a baby you know we've got the whole day to go but you know it's it's looking like it's moving to the upside so we'll see not a close above the high of the low day yet but some who are more aggressive traders might say you know that's that's good enough for me okay and so you know if we wanted to trade an index could we do a short put vertical on this index you bet your sweet bippy we could and what's the advantage of trading you know something like a short put vertical on an index as opposed to an individual stock well this is a combination of 30 companies and so that you know bad news globally will affect all indexes but you know if one company takes a hit there are 29 others in this index or in the nasdaq you've got 99 other companies you know that can all kind of hold things together so it's less likely to be influenced by news on one company and that's one of the advantages of of trading an index type product um so there's our doubt now let's come over to the russell so our dear dear russell um and if i go back a year you can see like we had quite a run on the on the russell from the end of october last year all the way up here until you know almost the middle of february and then it got into this range and it just kind of stayed there it hit this high back mid-march and until you know november 3rd didn't beat it and then it you know kind of set up this long pennant pattern which it broke above and then broke above this kind of 2360-ish range just a week or so ago and you know those who are technicians amongst us would say okay we had this range of about 230 points so we'd expect this movement to be up another 230 points and so while it was in this range we started trading iron condors and then all of a sudden this broke out and i was looking at this on one of the fridays when we had our guest speakers and i thought on monday in the long options class oh i'll close it out and then what happened snap if it didn't like just bust a move and all of a sudden i went from something with a small profit to something with a big loss so let's go and look at that because we were placing iron condors and layering them on week after week on the iron on the uh on the russell and if you're not familiar with an iron condor what it is is a credit spread sandwich where we sold a short put vertical down here which said as long as this index stays above this line we are fine and then we sold short call verticals up here and with a short call vertical as long as it stayed below here we were fine and so for a long time we were fine okay um and then all of a sudden this happened and we were no longer fine with this strategy which is okay because you know what we have this whole box of incredible power tools called options at our disposal and you know for a while one strategy may work beautifully and then you'll go you know what it's no longer summer i need to put my flip-flops away and bring out you know a different kind of footwear unless i'm flying to maui in january or something like that flip-flops in utah don't work very well in the winter that doesn't mean flip-flops aren't a good thing they're just not good at that time of year so this strategy worked in a lovely way for us and then and then it didn't so if we come to our account statement so monitor tab account statement and if we want to see what happened on a particular stock now i just want to talk about the last one because the last one we were hoping to close out you know for something in that neighborhood of you know kind of 20 cents to a buck we had to pay a nine dollars to pay that back to to buy that back to close out that trade what would our max loss have been is if we had bought it back for ten dollars you know so we got hit on that one and we had laid out we'd already closed out the short put side the short call side we took a hit how did that impact us overall so you'll notice if you come down here to profit and losses by this is profit and losses by symbol so when i come down here to the rut you know that put a hole in our profits overall for this um this index and the only thing we did on this was you know here was our russell 2000 index the net of it is that we were ahead by hundred and forty dollars which on an account which was twenty thousand dollars to start this year let me just do the math 17 oh i turned the calculator on it works much better funny how that is you know that gave us a nine percent return for the two or three months that we did that trade on our overall account on our entire account for the year and so even though we had one leg that we had to close out for close to a max loss overall this strategy you know worked pretty darn well wouldn't you say so we weren't unhappy with our dive into iron condors okay now someone else asked me to look at a trade that we just put on on netflix and so let me come to the account statement again we're going to scroll back up and we'll type in netflix and on netflix we did um we placed a so here we sold a call oh this is closing this oh no was it netflix then i wrote it down oh and it wasn't netflix it was amazon amzn was amazon so we placed two trades um and we did both of these trades on thursday so i was filling in for john mcnichol um so i was filling in for john mcnichol and so we opened this short put vertical so we sold the 3 500 and then bought the 35 495 to define our risk we ended up out the same day so me thinks you know there was some kind of blip in the filling system because i wouldn't have put in an order to exit that trade at 60 cents but we ended up with 120 profit on that and then we have put in a long call vertical so with a long call vertical what are we we're bullish we're saying that we're thinking by december 10th that amazon our expectation is that amazon will be trading above 3 600 okay so where is that sitting right now so if we come and we look at amazon it's had the unmitigated nerve to pull back on us so we just entered this trade yesterday so i'm thinking it must have been trading up or we wouldn't have put that trade on and it's now come back to this 10-day moving average so what we'll do is we'll keep an eye on this and if this doesn't bounce and move up we may say you know what we were expecting you know we had a a low higher low higher low higher high higher high this to continue to move up and if it doesn't um we may just close this down so we're currently i think in a bit of a loss but we were looking at you can see from our notes here looking at that as a cup and handle pattern and this would be our target we're saying we're not being greedy we just want it to be above here which was basically it nicked that you know price yesterday um and the day before or wednesday tuesday and wednesday so we weren't looking for a big move um info on legging out so the idea on legging out and i'll come back to the rut on this um so what we were doing like i said is we were putting on whoops earth to barb let's come back here we were putting on these positions where we would have a short put vertical so let's say we had put one on right here a short put vertical and a long call vertical and then it comes down to here well when it gets here this is going to be worth next to nothing so then we would close this out and then when it bounced and came back up we would close out the short put vertical because it would decline in value and so when this started to go up we closed out the short foot vertical and we were expecting that you know what would happen is what happened here or here or here or here or here is that it would get there bonk its head and maybe pull back for a couple of days and it didn't and so we said okay now that it's above um and it looks like it's moving above with some momentum we're just gonna have to bite the bullet and and take our loss but the idea of lagging out is when one side is worth a lot less to buy it back and that takes our risk off the table for that side of the trade so i hope that answers that question um taz is saying what is considered an average options return that depends on the type of of strategy you're trading and so um yeah so let's go and and look at a potential trade so if we came to let's see what tesla's doing today you're saying oh trading a smaller account of course we're going to look at tesla well you know what maybe not tesla because you know this trend um you know since you know the last several months has been pretty bullish hasn't it and then earnings came and it took off like a rocket um and then we had this you know this enormous one-day pullback where it was down over 10 percent and then it bounced and we put a short call verdi or sorry a short put vertical on here around the thousand dollar mark expecting it to stay above that but today it's pulling back i was thinking if it had gone up again today maybe we'd put something on it that it would expire three weeks out but this candle pattern would not give us permission to do that so that's an x beside that one um we were just looking at the russell let's bring that one back up okay so if we come and we look at our friend the russell we were doing iron condors um and you know that was you know as i've said layering but maybe we could look at this and if we're expecting historically the russell has been bullish no guarantee that it's going to be bullish in november and december of this year but you know we're seeing it's broken out hit a new all-time high you know recently you know november 8th had a new all-time high pulled back for two days you know i spy with my little eye what kind of pattern are you guys seeing i'm seeing a breakout of a resistance level that was in place since march and a bull flag and it's now moving again to the upside so could i come here and sell something around that 2360ish mark and do you know a short put vertical you know let's go and see if there's enough as mike falette would have said juice for it to be worth the squeeze and what's our line here you know oh sorry i got to change my drawing tool 23.88 so we want to get as far under that as we can and personally you know some might say i'd like to get back to this support level this 20 20 um 360-ish level so if i come out here and we say if we were to come out about three weeks 2360 so what's our delta about 30 32 what does that mean we have a 32 percent chance this could be in the money we have a pretty tight bid ask spread only 70 cents and if it was a two dollar option you'd say 70 cents that's huge but this is a 26 option 260 would be 10 so you know 70 cents is you know kind of relatively speaking a drop in the bucket so if we said could we do the 2360 and 23.55 we get a dollar 40 credit so this is where we get out our calculator and say well how much could we lose we could lose the difference between the strikes five bucks less our credit which is we're live in the market so it keeps changing so we're risking 370 to make a dollar thirty so if we come here and we say okay what's a dollar 30 divided by 370. and you know i know that a dollar is 25 percent so this is 35 percent for a trade we'd be in for 21 days and someone it just warms my heart when you know you know john was saying i give the example of in order to do apples to apples like so what if i look at december 3rd versus the monthlies on december 17th so how do i do an apples to apples comparison because more time should equate to more premium um is so we're if we look at it and we say we we want to get at least one percent for every day we're in the trade of a return and this is just on a short put vertical that might be part of your recipe card for this trading strategy one of our our rules is that we don't want to trade over earnings and one of the nice things about trading in index is you never have to worry about earnings because you know the index itself doesn't have an earning season so if we say okay well this is going down as we speak which could be considered to be a good sign like we'd like to get more premium which would place this five minutes ago and got 20 cents more but it means that the stock is moving in the direction that we want and so if we say okay we're willing to risk well now we have a thirty thousand dollar account if we were willing to risk two percent and on a smaller account you might say i would never risk two percent i have a million dollar account well maybe if you have a million dollar account your rule is that you risk half of one percent or you risk a third of one percent you know this isn't fixed but when you have a smaller account if you're not willing to take sometimes proportionately a little more risk then you're precluded from a lot of trades so we said okay we're willing to risk two percent that would be six hundred dollars so could we do two of these no actually we still can't so let's see if we can get you know a dollar thirty five on that one because it keeps kind of dipping up there and we're going to code a advanced order single order change it to first trigger sequence we're going to right click create an opposite order and we're going to say when we've got 80 percent of our max gain on this or this is worth about you know 25 cents uh we're gonna shut it down we're gonna buy it back and take our risk off the table and put that in our short put vertical bucket now i saw that um i saw that brent was responding to something on long call verticals and we could compare and contrast this to a long call vertical if we're really bullish and one of the advantages of the short put vertical is even if we're a bit wrong we can still have a profitable trade with a long call vertical it has to move up but we can compare and contrast this to a long call vertical and let's do that so you know this is kind of bullish to neutral where if we come over here and we say okay if we're bullish on this and we think it's going to continue to go up it's currently trading at 2415. how much do
we want it to go up what if we said like just by five bucks if it went up by five bucks that would be great how much does this index move in an average day yeah thirty dollars 31.68 points so you know we could come and say okay if in the next and you know if we want to make it apples to apples we'll just keep the time frame the same what if in the next three weeks this moved up five dollars you know that's like a fraction of what it moves in an average day so if i took the 2415 and we're buying now a vertical so 2415 and then i sell the 2420. now what does that do it puts a cap on how much i can make i'm paying 280 how much could i make i can make 220. and it you know how much does it have to move well it has to move about three points for me to break even on that you know or for us and our paper money account to break even and when i look at 220 oh i've got to put this in so let's go ahead and put it in long call vertical we're going to say compare to short put vertical but this is more directional and that it has to move up and how much does it have to move up by it has to move up by six bucks for us to see our max gain on that okay so we're gonna go ahead fire in the hole what does it cost us to place this trade a dollar thirty plus 36 cents so 65 cents a leg okay now how much can we lose on that trade what we paid to get in now are there examples with verticals where we could lose more than anticipated there is if something um closes in between the strikes and you don't take action and i actually posted something on twitter about that last saturday you know what happens at expiration so if you haven't looked at that because you know we have 45 minutes i can't cover everything um go and look that up you know it it goes through all three scenarios um so we've gotten a fill on that one as well now you know could could we just buy a long call well we could but you know that's four thousand four hundred and ten dollars like that's approaching you know 20 of our account size you know we can't afford to do that our max risk per trade is six hundred dollars yeah so you know but a long call vertical allows us to take advantage of this type of strategy if we think that an index is bullish right right okay so someone we had talked about crocs earlier this week and so crocs we already have a position on in that i believe we have a long call vertical that we put on in another class um so if i come to activities and positions yes and we are up almost 40 on that so crocs must be up today because we're up 220 on it and some might say you know what um yeah so we did a long call vertical here where we bought the 170 call and then we sold the 180 call and it you can see here you know as this one's gaining money this one's losing money and that's okay like the most we can make on this is the difference between our our our strikes and this one isn't set up so what we're going to do i i don't know why this went in this way as a custom in two singles the math should be done for us but we're going to have our max gain if in 35 days this is above 180 and it's sitting at 179.81 right now but we could say you know what a 370 dollar gain that's like a percent and a half almost for this entire account we're going to take that and there would be no shame in saying you know i'm i'm cool with i don't have to wait 35 days so if we come and we look at this we can see that this is moving up and we had a short put vertical and i think that that's been closed out so let's go and and look at our short put verticals oh no we still have that short put vertical on we have one that expires next week um and you know it's worth 32 cents and and we don't have an exit on that so we might say you know what we got paid a dollar 25 when we got in when it's worth 25 cents we want to exit so we're gonna right click on this create a closing order to buy this back when it's worth 25 cents and one of the nice things about a short put vertical is we love time decay so you know if we're by we're fans of time decay over the weekend theta all other things being equal might take us to that 25 cents and then we'd be out of this so yeah yeah so there's some convincing going on about crocs you know because i've said my children i asked my kids to buy me crocs one year for christmas and um you know they went absolutely not they are horrible looking shoes um not to disc crocs but i said look they go well with a robe and a shovel and they get me out to my hot tub um yeah so james boyd and i convinced about crocs all of last year um you know and this is just our our accent on that but you know when we come to the charts and if we look back at the last two years i mean here's the stock that's gone from eight dollars and forty cents to a hundred and eighty two dollars and we have made um a lot of of money on crocs in this class over the last two years don't know how we haven't traded it as much this year but if we wanted to see you know how much that has added to our coffers we could come and look it up you know 822.50
so we haven't traded that as much this year but um yeah kind of interesting so we already have positions there okay so that's crocs but i did have it on my list okay let's look at microsoft we have maybe time to squeeze in one more would you like to squeeze in one more okay yeah yeah okay you know crocs you gotta hand it to them they've done some great marketing um you know so we don't mock the crocs they've aligned with justin bieber and i don't even post malone and you know if you're into music you you know whether you like it or not you've heard of these people so when we look at microsoft i mean this is one of the biggest companies on both the nasdaq and the s p 500 um and i mean just rolling hills of ascent here and what do we see what do we spy with our little eye well another series of both legs right and this one lo and behold is the first one today where we actually have our you know beloved kahol you know or some kind of love that entry you know this this it's trading above the high of the low day because you know if we come and actually put our cursor on our low day here um the the high was 334.63 and it's currently trading at 335. so could we come in and say you know sell something if we wanted to do a short put vertical and we could do this compare and contract again compare and contrast um could we sell something below 330 and we're not going to need 30. so if we look at the 330 that's a 37 delta could we get out to the the 325 you know which is even lower and sell and get enough premium sell a vertical 82 cents on five dollars that's a little skinny like that would barely be 21 we might say well you know what that's okay i'd rather be further away and others would say well let's at least look at the 330 dollar 27 well we know that's over 25 percent a dollar 27 divided by 373 so that's five dollars minus a dollar twenty seven my math may be a little wrong but about thirty four percent and so if we were okay with that we could go in and and place that trade and we might just wanna come out to the charts i can't tell you how often i do this and say okay am i okay with this line here at 3 30.
and if i'm not you know or if you're saying that's a little too close well then don't place the trade if you're saying yes i think the overall market is bullish tech has been strong over the last month over the last three months you know if i look at the tech sector you know kind of looks similar doesn't it to the microsoft um chart so we're going to go ahead we're going to place this trade single order first trigger sequence right click and i i'm sometimes asked why don't you put in um an exit if the trade goes against you because sometimes it'll go against us temporarily but it hasn't really broken a support level in a big way and we want to give it a hot minute to come back and so we want to look at the charts that isn't to say we don't close trades out for a loss we have absolutely done examples of that but when this is worth about a quarter or 80 percent we're going to take our risk off the table okay short put vertical and then we're going to compare to our long call vertical we're going to put in a long call vertical as well and we're going to do this same time frame just to keep it consistent so where is it currently trading 335 and you know what let's just like i know we don't have long but we could even do the it would there be enough in the 330 335 sometimes you can do one where it's already kind of through both strikes we could make two dollars and how much does it have to it doesn't even have to go up so if we look at this it's like we could lose 300 but we could make 200 that's a 66 return and the stock could go down by two bucks so let's try that okay let's try that you know what's the probability of that being successful you know some might say you know that's not bad it's already through both strikes and we could still make 200 in the next 21 days that's a 66 return on our risk okay so compared to short put vertical and this is our entry is already through both strikes that's just a note from us to us okay guys can you believe it our 45 minutes is up so um i'll make sure that that particular trade goes in but when we go back to our menu i think we did what we set out to do and you know we looked at a couple of previous trades i'm not trying to avoid looking at any particular stocks but it's been three weeks so what i'd encourage you to do i teach long options on monday at high noon getting started with options tuesdays at high noon um i'd encourage you to join me also for those classes if you can or catch them in the archives because we will especially in the long options class on monday continue to add positions you know on occasion to to this yes so um somebody's saying don't you pay three dollars but you can only make two correct but if we go back here and we're saying you know i'm paying to i i can make two dollars i'm risking three dollars that's a 66 return on my risk right and dg is saying that ken rose has an 80 win rate on his short put verticals and you know what so and it so you can learn a lot from ken ken does a class on wednesdays at three o'clock eastern um we added positions to our portfolio i filled in for ken this week um and you know what does that mean though it means he does have losing trades but if his win rate well actually when i watched his class he had an 86 percent win rate average which meant that 14 of the time they have an opportunity to manage a losing trade and if you do that well even though this is a very conservative strategy with like a 30 or a 40 return on our risk it can make a world of difference the the most common trade we've placed in this class has been um credit spreads short put verticals predominantly because the market's been so bullish and look at the returns we've had now is that a guarantee it's going to continue yeah when we're buying a vertical um on we're doing a long call vertical which is bullish and we paired that with a short put vertical which is bullish to neutral yeah so we did two bullish trades on two different stocks so that we can compare and contrast them okay i try and manage everything within this class um you know which is a bit of like i feel like a bit of a super power i'm having to develop because it's not a lot of time but it's important trade management is important okay so guys um i hope you have an absolutely fabulous weekend i hope the sun is shining wherever you are keep coming back we're linking arms together and and figuring this stuff out i i love having you here in the bottom um bottom corner you can see there's a little subscribe button so if you want to be part of our ongoing community please subscribe please smash that like button it tells other people you found this content valuable subscribe to this channel don't forget to follow brent and i on um uh in the land of twitter um and know that you know this when we're doing credit spreads we have a little higher transaction cost we have to take that into account options not suitable for every um all investors there are special risks and you've got to develop a whole new skill set so i mean there is that right but we're doing that together um and know that all of this is for education and informational purposes only not to be construed as a recommendation on the part of td ameritrade all myself so guys that's a wrap huge thank you to each and every one of you for being here into brent moore's in particular for being so awesome um that's a wrap bye for now