SHAZ KHAN of Tono Pizzeria and Cheesesteaks on Navigating Friendship + Business
Welcome to Restaurant Influencers Powered by Entrepreneur Media and Yelp. My name is Shawn Walchef, founder of Cali Barbecue Media. In Life and in the Restaurant Business, we learn through lessons and stories. Today's guest is Shaz Khan of Tono Pizzeria and Cheesesteaks in Minnesota. Five locations soon to be six locations shares.
Welcome to the show. Thanks so much. Happy to be here.
So I put everybody through a drill in the beginning of this podcast. Anybody that's listening to the show, it's so important to have an elevator pitch. A two minute drill.
So first off, I'm going to ask you a random question. I want to know where in the world is your favorite stadium, stage or venue? I would have to say Anaheim or Orange, California. I forgot the name of the stadium, but I don't know. You know, navigation is a big thing for me, so like getting in and out, it was just very convenient. And it's funny you ask that because I've thought about that really so.
And Anaheim, where the Angels play. Apparently. Apparently where the Angels play. So we're going to go back to Anaheim. We're going to get Toast, who's the primary sponsor of this podcast, who's our primary technology partner. We're going to get them to sponsor a hospitality conference.
All the best leaders, like a real cool hospitality conference. We're actually going to learn something. We're going to make some big moves, and I'm going to put you right where the pitcher is, and I'm going to give you a mic and give you 2 minutes to tell me who you are and what do you do? Can you do it? I love it. Let's go. We go. 120 seconds. Cool. I'll probably take less than
that. My name is Shaz Khan. I'm co-owner and co-founder of Tono Pizzeria Plus Cheesesteaks. We are a fast casual cheesesteak and a pizza quick service restaurant food is pictured behind me again. And this all to famous background that I've got on Zoom, although I'd love for it to be in real life too. I'm partner with primarily my business partner and best friend of going on 20 years, Antonio Gambino. There's a joke in there somewhere with his last name.
He's the foodie, you know, he designed the entire menu based on a long legacy 82 year old recipes, New York style pizza shrunken down to a personal size. I cooked in a brick oven and his mom's from Philly. So, you know, he asked me if I wanted to open up once upon a time, a cheesesteak restaurant. At that time, that was the goal. I was like, What's a cheesesteak? What floor to Philly? You did the whole taste test. I was on a treadmill for like two months, came back, and after that the rest is history.
So yeah, we fly out, rolls in from the East Coast, very authentic food. You have to come and try it. Check out our reviews. And you know, everyone continues to seem to be loving it.
So we're continuing to give them a lot more of what they want. How does one open up a business with their best friend? That's a really good question, man. The challenges are many.
And I don't think I was I think I was underprepared for many of them, because, you know, the old adage, don't get into business with friends. I think that's only really a thing because of the natural communication gaps that can occur between people who are that close. But but I you know, we did a lot of not just self but like group development early on in our formative years when it comes to in terms of that partnership. And so we got very clear on what questions we needed to ask and what style of communication we needed to implement in order to convey everything on the range of anger, to disappointment, to, you know, elation and the clear that communication got.
And the more we utilize those particular goals and channels, the easier it was to communicate difficult things. I mean, don't get me wrong, there are times where I'm sure you can say the same. I wanted to tear his face off because we just weren't seeing eye to eye on things. But eventually you learn how to work through those things and you develop a new normal, if you will. And we all know that term now, right? And you just you know, you keep you keep it rolling.
So it's not easy, but it's worth it. So I had the fortune of interviewing David Dressler, who is the founder, one of the founders of Tender Green's, a brand that we highly admire. And they named their corporation ten year plan restaurant group, the type restaurant group. So like they had this vision for what their restaurant group, you know, two best friend, three best friends coming together to build out something incredible to eventually exit.
It's something that many restaurant owners don't ever think about the exit. Have you and Antonio talked about an exit? What was the plan? Was it one restaurant now that you guys are up to six? You know, talk us through through the formation and and what the actual plan is. Absolutely. I love that question a lot. Part of the spiel that I gave earlier about who I am.
I failed to mention that my background is actually not in the restaurant industry. It comes from my form. My formal education is in electrical engineering, and I became kind of a self-taught coder.
So I know a bunch of programing languages, and so I have an affinity for business numbers, math and somehow marketing as well. So I'm told and that's that's kind of my background, you know, and one that pairs well and fits, you know, hand in glove with his skill set, which is industry specific. And so when we got together, you know, the goal was really just to do something together because it was fun and we couldn't do it. And it was kind of a little bit of a risk for both of us. And what it has become is this long discussion about what the evolution of the brands look like. And when I say brands, because there's a sister brand that predates Tono that we both had started as well called Frank from Philly and Andrea Pizza, a similar menu style but catered to college college towns.
As that conversation evolved about what that, you know, what the future looks like, you know, of course strategy number one when you first start is like, let's get up and going. Like, you know, let's let's get the doors open, let's make a mark. Then it becomes, you know, I would say scaling, you know, and part of the scaling conversation is logistics and systems. This, of course, where I come in and as we move forward, the goal was, you know, the conversation shifted about what the goal should be.
So not only sustaining the organization from all of the pillars that it needs to sustain it, meaning finance operations, you know, having the right people in the right seat, as they say. But also, you know, what does that long term exit look like? And so we made the decision of actually bringing in a couple more of our friends who into our partnership ones specifically dealing with real estate acquisitions and brokering and the other in construction. Because we know that these two people were not only really good friends of ours, also having a great business acumen, but also bringing a piece of the puzzle to the team for us to continue to expand and scale.
And I think what I want to highlight there is that, you know, as long as everyone is familiar with what their expertize is and there is kind of a role to play for everybody, that is the impetus, in my opinion, of doing great business in order to even be able to answer the question of what the future looks like and what an exit looks like because you don't know what you don't know. And me not having ever been a construction or real estate or even matter of fact, a food person, at some point, once I'm introduced to another person's passion, expertize and knowledge base, it is only by the identification of the factors that they introduce me to that I can open my mind to understand what an exit could potentially look like, because otherwise I'm stuck in the naivety of, you know, my world view of what I think an exit is, and I can be potentially self-limiting and limiting the brand as well. So to. Finally answer your question. We're looking to continue to scale regionally and develop the logistics necessary to support that.
We're on this path of determining whether or not we want a franchise, don't want a franchise, what that looks like, and eventually find ourselves either having hospitality, meaning this entire endeavor as a whole, as one arm of our, you know, income producing avenues and state keep it like that, having all of the pieces and people in place to continue to operate that that conglomerate or, you know, potentially, you know, having ourselves having built something rather that is, you know, it's representative of a large legacy and it's worth something to somebody else that might want to take our place. So we have a lot of restaurant owners, hospitality professionals, but when we think of independent restaurants, when you go from one location to two locations to three to where you guys are. Can you talk us through the challenges, the biggest challenges that you had from scaling? Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not even sure if my answer is necessarily going to be reflective of what people normally do, because my neuroses are many. And I think our challenges may have been a result, in fact, of those neuroses. But nevertheless, you know, again, being an engineer at heart, you know, my whole thing is if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And so when we opened
our sister brand first, there were there were improvements that I'd made based on what I saw Antonio doing when he was operating the restaurant. Mind you, again, I'm not operations. I just said, Hey, do what you say needs to be done or think needs to be done to run this restaurant, and then I'll witness it. I'll collect some data, you know, and I'll do some spot checking and I'll see where I where I think there's improvement. And so we
literally went from, you know, him writing like paper schedule, like paper pencil schedules to utilizing apps to upgrading from in a back office post to a cloud based post, etc., etc.. Right. So systematizing this business and you know, as we scaled the goal was just to copy paste all of that. Well, right around
2 to 3 restaurants, I realized that the copy paste wasn't even going to suffice anymore. Right? Because you're outgrowing certain processes, they're becoming too vast or there's too many people involved in order for that solution to work. So you kind of have to level up now, kind of you have to level up on another enterprise level, if you will, solution for something that used to work, but no longer does one of those. Right now, for example, even now is employee record management, you know. So we recently switched over to, like, Toast payroll. I'll be honest, it's payroll doesn't I know they're their sponsor here, but you know, they love my candor, too, right? They love the candor.
Well, we'll get it. We'll get into the tech partnerships next. But go ahead. Keep going. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it doesn't do a great job of of having a UI that supports like document, archival, multiple locations, etc.,
etc.. And so we're we're looking for a solution that is able to give our operations team the ability to quickly sift and sort through our staff based on a variety of metrics. You know, what what wage range are they in? Which locations have they been at? When did they get hired? Where are their documents at? Who's scheduled for what? Right now, I think this is an industry wide issue, except for maybe like the super big dogs where they can afford like a customized software platform. But it's all about automation and implementation of integrations, a lot of alliteration there. And we're just trying to, you know, minimize the number of systems that we're using. And if we can't minimize them, then at least increase the communication between those systems and platforms to have as much as close as possible to a singular platform to be able to make most efficient our operations.
So you're part of the Toast Advisory Board, Customer Advisory Board Cab, just like I am. That's how we that's how we met. It's one of the things that we talk about on this show and we talk about all the time is that there's never been a time where restaurant owners, hospitality professionals, can develop deep relationships with huge technology companies like we have done with Toast, and that they're willing the best companies will be willing for that candor. They'll be willing to receive the candor in a way that is systematized so that they can actually make improvements.
Why did you join the Toast Customer Advisory Board and why someone listening to this show should someone develop a deeper, deeper relationship with their technology partners? Yeah, great question. Again, man, I love your question. I do this a lot, so better than you. I better be bringing it. I can tell you're definitely bringing it.
It's important because if you leave software companies, fintech companies, just technology partners, if you leave them to do what they think is best, then you're always going to get someone else's version. Of what you need and not necessarily what you need. And the fact that this is a company and, you know, I think the industry is moving towards this that is offering a forum, a podium, literally a stage for people like ourselves to be valued, to be seen as value member to the communities. And due to that value, have a voice opinion in which we can genuinely and on a very like boots on the ground level influence change within their entire ecosystem. I think says a lot about their dedication to becoming a successful technology partner and successful company, making their constituents feel that they're heard and also providing, like I was first mentioning, the solutions that are actually needed because the people telling them what we want.
Well, they're the people who are using it the most. So, I mean, you just when when a company does that, you you really can't go wrong because you're not relying on your historical instincts or just data points. You're talking to real people.
Yeah. How do you gain brand traction in a new market? I think that's a question that's going to be specific to markets and perhaps even food styles. But I can answer what what we do, right.
You know, for us, authenticity is very important. Like, as they'd say, you know, if the food ain't good, then what are you even doing? Right. And that's the first thing is to establish quality and make sure it's not biased quality, but rather the quality that is spoken upon you and not the one that you're speaking.
Right. So that's number one. You know, we've got a great story to tell. It's not one that needs to be fabricated. The story kind of tells
itself. And as a result, we highlight that story. And so any time I really do feel that consumers in general, myself, of course, being one of them, is different in a different regard. We're all consumers in some way.
And I would ask the question, you know, what makes me feel gravitated towards a certain brand? The answer to that question is always, you know, I feel some kind of connection. I feel like there is a story that I'm really interested or inspired by. And so we make sure that everything about the brand, from the colors to the logo to the food, to the experience, to the smell, I mean, everything is representative of what that story is and what the, you know, what experience we want people to live with. And that really, you know,
it's a slow pace because we're not using some viral marketing trend that's going to result in an influx of 6 million viewers right away. You know, 2% of which walk in the door. That's great. Don't get me wrong.
Great marketing tactic. But as far as brand attraction, that's a long play. And I think it's definitely based on that, that story building. And now a quick break from Restaurant Influencers to welcome the newest sponsor to our show Pop Menu. We got to spend an entire weekend at Chicago for the National Restaurant Association show with a pop menu team.
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So in the hospitality business, we spend so much time giving back, giving of ourselves to our team, giving of ourselves to our customers, giving to our community. Very rarely do we take care of ourselves. It's one of the things I struggled with as a restaurant owner. What do you do to take care of yourselves? To take care of you? That's a really good question. And to be honest, I'm struggling with that right now because for a while when we were in our earlier stages of growth and had fewer locations, I was, like I said, in that copy paste mode. So that was easy for
me, easier for me to do because I had established an understanding of what needed to be done. And I just plop that solution in, turn it on site configuration and we're ready to go. And I found myself loving that a lot because it left me with a lot more time to do the things that I enjoy, you know, go on walks, travel, etc. as we're scaling more locations.
And I mentioned that we're looking for solutions that are above and beyond the ones that are, you know, not not conducive to to where we are at in terms of our market scale. I'm finding myself with less and less time because, you know, some of the time is is spent managing what we do have in place and the rest of the time is spent trying to identify better solutions. You know, they call it growing pains when you're in this like, you know, small going into medium size business. And I know those are arbitrary terms, but it really does feel like that. So I know it's an ebb and flow, you know, in terms of like time commitment and I am hoping that one. Once those solutions are identified that, you know, I can get back to jumping on a plane and, you know, just visiting different places in the world because that's truly what that truly is.
What inspires me, just being able to, like, interact with different people, different cultures, music, food. It just reminds me that the world isn't as small of a place and as disconnected of a place as sometimes even the media wants us to feel or think. And, you know, I guess when you're happy, then the things you do end up being happy and people around you are happy, right? Yeah. I think that's important. And I appreciate your candor and sharing, you know, your vulnerability of saying that you aren't doing it well. What can you do? What can you say to to us to to make a commitment now for yourself? Obviously, travel is important. I mean, how do you make that commitment and how do you follow through on it? Yeah, I think it's hard.
I mean, to be honest with you, I know so many people listening to this show. For me, I worked in a restaurant for ten years, you know, ten years before I ever thought that I could go to Bulgaria for longer than two weeks. I go to visit my wife and my wife's family and spend time there. Now, for the last four years, since I've had kids. I'm going for a month, but I'm also going for a month because I have Internet access. So I've prioritized
and I've made it a priority. What what can you do to make it a priority? To do the things that you love and still scale? Yeah. Yeah. I think the number one lesson that I'm learning and my partner as well, we'll probably laugh at this, too, is, you know, learning the art of delegation. And I say the art of because delegating isn't a problem, but not I wouldn't even say micromanaging, but not trying to involve oneself and, you know, trying to prevent every single small mistake because I've been there is is certainly a challenge. So, you know, allowing that, you know, that 8020 allowing people to make, you know, mistakes 20% of the time, if you will, and just trust that they're going to learn from those things and that they're going to handle things in a manner that perhaps could even exceed your wildest dreams and thereby developing the mental comfort to be able to step away and therefore have a clearer calendar to to to do the things that you want to do. I mean, if I want to
just, you know, chill for a day, if I want to have a barbecue, if I want to go to Bulgaria for a month, you know that that's all based on, you know, not just my calendar, but my perception of my calendar. That's powerful. Your perception of your calendar is it is very valuable. Do you have any stories of any mentors or any times that you've reached out vulnerably and asked for help and kind of someone gave you an Oh shit. I can't believe I didn't ask for this sooner. Yeah, actually.
So I'm based in Saint Paul, Minnesota, and our sister city is Minneapolis. And one of my mentors at some point is a gentleman by the name of Bill George, who was former CEO of Medtronic, which is a big medtech company based out here. And I was I had the fortune of meeting him through a previous endeavor of mine. The World Economic Forum has a branch, if you will, called the young global leaders, which is like 30 to 40 year olds that are looking to become more active in terms of their social impact and and entrepreneurship and political affiliations. But then they they have another arm.
When I was in my twenties for 20 to 30 year olds called the Global Shapers. And this was basically like, you know, working towards being that. WEIGEL That young global leader. So you could kind of end up at Davos and, you know, hang with the big dogs and just learn and be inspired by people who have such a large social impact. But anyway, yeah, he had written a book called True North and he gave me a copy, which I still have. And it was just talking about how to be an authentic leader.
And, you know, the the impact that being an authentic leader has what that means, you know, this reference to true North One's internal compass, it was it was really powerful to me. And perhaps now in a day and age where there's so many podcasts and so many resources and information like this is readily accessible at one's fingertips, maybe it's not as profound, but nevertheless, I find it to be timeless because, you know, again, like I'm a I'm a book person. Like, podcasts are cool. This is cool.
You know, tick tock videos are cool. But I found that the more I let myself focus on, on those little like bits of knowledge or, you know, the little hooks, the 22nd gotcha, get your attention. Things like that can be very powerful, but they don't necessarily establish like the framework and the groundwork that truly, you know, creates the motion for action to occur. And he just did a phenomenal job in this book. And when he when I was I was able to have this sort of Q&A session with him on that book. And, you know, just the information that that.
He shared with me from his own personal experiences. I mean, to your point about what do you do by yourself about, you know, illnesses within family and how one copes with, you know, relationships and things like that. Like these are all we're human. And being in this industry, let alone any fast pace industry and being in a position where you influence so many people, people's livelihoods, you know, it really there's there's a large I'm not going to call it a burden that has a negative connotation, but but there's a large responsibility there to be able to be able to to be able to balance that, while also extending the necessary leadership to balance your own life and do it to do what's right is is really important. So that was kind of mind blowing to me.
We do every week, we do a social shout out. So people that are listening to the show that are supporting the show, following us on social at Cali BBQ Media, we do a weekly Clubhouse call on Wednesdays and Fridays at 10 a.m. Pacific Time. People my grandfather taught me to stay curious, to get involved, and to ask for help.
Nobody listens to a podcast. No one watches a video. Unless you're curious, unless you want to level up, scale up, be better. But then you actually have to do something with that information. You know what you said you actually have to implement that information. You have to get involved.
So the people that do get involved, we like to give them a shout out this week, shout outs going to Traci Molineaux. She is the owner of Coughlin's ten. You can find them at Coughlin's ten in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. She's been joining the clubhouse calls. She's been making content, making Instagram reels, doing TikTok, doing all the things that we talk about on the show.
But what would your advice be to her if she plans on seeing what you guys have done as she going from one unit to six units? What advice would you give to her? I would say that make sure you're surrounding yourself with a strong team. You know, vet everybody that you're surrounding yourself with as you make those hires or even increase your, you know, your partnership, if that's the case. Everything is built on trust. And again, I know that that's either going to be very obvious or very profound. I found that the best relationships are built on trust and having people around you that you can trust not just in an operational framework, but but as a as a human being.
You know, the more you have that, the more I think you're going to find it in yourself to do do right by those people. Right. And it's a give and take. And the more of that give and take there is, I feel like the more success we're going to feel. And it's true essence because let's be honest, you know, in my well, in my perspective, having whatever, you know, thousand locations, that itself can't be the definition of success. Scaling itself cannot be success.
The money itself can be success. It there has to be a team that you trust to enjoy the journey with. And it really is about that journey. So don't forget to have fun along the way. But yeah, having having people you trust is, is huge. So if somebody is in your area, they come or let's say the Cali BBQ Media team, we show up.
What are we ordering from townhouse. Where you have to order margaery and this. Besides what's besides what's pictured behind you. If you guys are watching this on YouTube that shows up to every. Toast customer advisory board with the the cheesesteak and pizza in the back. Which ones are those. If if what menu items are those behind. Yeah.
So this is the I got to get my bearings right here. This is the number three I believe the Supreme SA cheesesteaks are. Yeah. So it's, you know prime, prime cut. We have green peppers in there, that's Cheez Whiz which again people are like hater love it. But it's a very like authentic, you know, Philly cheesesteak thing. We do have cheese options and
served on a bed of fries. There's some garlic ale there as well on the side. This is the Fungo Pizza. I believe it's number 16. It's white sauce with mushrooms and truffle oil. If you were to show up, I would highly recommend.
And this is like emblematic of all pizza places. But you have to get the margarita because truly that is if you walk into a pizza place and you want to know if it's authentic and you want to know like what's good, get the cheese or get the margarita. That's how you know whether the menu is good and whether it's authentic. And you'll know you don't even have to be a pizza snob.
You'll just know right side. I'd totally make you get that. And then our number one, which is our, you know, our standard cheesesteak, the South Philly we call it, which also can be ordered with different cheese for people who, you know, Cheez Whiz isn't their thing. Provolone or American or pepper.
Jack is is also an option. That's what I'd recommend. We have this awesome dessert pizza, too. It's chocolate hazelnut dessert. So it's our famed pizza crust, but spread with chocolate hazelnut and powdered sugar cut into slices.
So it's a fan favorite of families and kids. That's awesome. So if if listeners they want to interact with your brand, what digital playground are you guys most active? Probably Instagram.
You know people it's food. People love photos. You know, we stay engaged on on pretty much every platform. You know, Facebook. I found that, you know, our social team describes and brings data to us on kind of what types of interactions are occurring, on what platform. You know, Instagram's usually a little more easygoing, if you will.
You know, people just interacting with food, photos saying they love going to buy stories. Facebook is a bit more formal, what ours are you open, etc.. And you know, we obviously have our website too where people let me ask you a question, real question. So we have some contact feedback forms on our website as well. And traditionally like being, you know, a consumer, not once in my life have I ever emailed the restaurant.
Like, I don't care how small or large it is, I just don't do it. And you know, whether I I'll call the place, sure. But I've never really like email and this isn't a good or bad thing. I'm just really curious because it's so different from what I was expecting. We get a ton of emails like people reach out via email for everything from refunds to an experience comment to Hey, great job to hey, you know, you have positions open and mind you, some of this information is available on the website. But I just find it so fascinating that, you know, there's such a large percentage of people that are reaching out, using email for restaurants.
Like if I like in my mind, if I ever email the restaurant, I'm not expecting. A response back at somebody is like, not. Unless you email us, but. They're different tries with one hand and their family on their phone in the other, you know. But so it's really cool that they're doing that. And I think, you know,
for whatever the impetus or the reason is, I would like to attribute some of it to us being fairly tech forward and offering those options because we want to open every channel of communication with our customers, make sure that they have they can get a hold of us any time, any day anyway. Yeah, I mean, being omnichannel, we talked about that on the show all the time, being what we call Digital Hospitality, responding to people no matter the platform, reducing the resistance. If someone wants to email you, you need to respond just as if someone was in real life. Someone wants to text message you. How do you enable text messaging? All of those things are so important in this new this new world that we're living in because, you know, we just can't discriminate how people get our food. And if you're selling food, if you're building influence, if you're doing things that we talk about, we want to celebrate you.
We want to find out, you know, where other Restaurant Influencers influencers are no matter where they are in the globe. We're going to put links to your website, your social handles, the Instagrams at Underscore, Tono, Imen and Chaz, really appreciate your time. If you guys want to reach out to me, you can reach out at @shawnpwalchef.
So when P.W. Halsey HCF, please join us on our weekly clubhouse calls 10 a.m. Pacific Standard Time. Shabaz will be on once his episode drops. You guys can do us a huge favor by writing a review on any whatever you listen to your podcast, or if it's Apple Podcasts or if you listen on Spotify, please write us a review that helps out the show a lot. And another thank you to
Toast for bringing incredible people into our lives, for sponsoring the show and for keeping Digital Hospitality top of mind next to us and a special thank you to our title sponsor, toast. Toast is the primary technology partner that we use at our restaurant. Cali Barbecue is also the primary technology partner that so many of the guests have shared with us on this show.
People like Sam, the cooking guy, Stacey Poon-Kinney Jeff Alexander. So many times the guests tell us that they're using toast when we didn't even know that going into the interview. That is why we are so grateful that they sponsor this show. We want you to win you that listen to this show.
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