Phil Knight, Co-founder and Chairman Emeritus, Nike
Fell. Pretty. Good welcome, home great. To be home but I, couldn't. Help but be, really. Pleased to see the. Dean wearing. A business suit and Nike shoes. You. Know but, I think we can all be and we. Can all be glad that, basically. I was not the founder of jockey underwear. Well. We'll try and make that a permanent change in the Elevens wardrobe. Now. I felt we, know you don't do too many public, speaking events and a question a lot of people have asked is what. Does it take to, get Phil Knight up on stage, so. I thought maybe we should share the story of what got you here today. Now. You, probably remember that, we, first crossed paths a couple of months ago just over there, make, a McDonald, Hall you, were entering, the building when I very, politely, interrupted. You introduce, myself. We. Exchanged, a couple of pleasantries, and then you went on inside about, your day, now. What, you're probably less, aware of Phil is that. I decided, to camp, outside McDonald. Hall for. The next 40 minutes. Watching. Every, possible, human, exit, to the building, so. That I could find you and you know casually. Bump into you a second time to, pitch you this interview. It's. Creepy I know yeah. That. That's how it happened. I'll. Be honest I was pretty nervous when you did come at that second time, it. Was fight or flight I very, nearly walked the other way but. There was this voice, in my head it, just kept saying we'll. Just, do, it. But. Really Phil we are so, thrilled and excited to have you back on campus and I, think I speak for every student here when I say how grateful we are for this incredible. Business school well, thank you but, you. Know having. Stalked me for at, least 40 minutes I, feel. That there should be some payback oh, I. Know that most of you know that Will's, mother mags has. Come all the way from Ireland to be here today. And. Having. Come, such a long way I think, you should reveal something about yourself that she doesn't know. So. I don't know what you're trying to suggest I was a perfect, child. Well. Did you make your bed this morning I. Didn't, even sleep in my own bed this morning cuz I gave it to my mom. That. Wasn't, what it sounded like. All. Right now Phil, Phil. We, don't want to make you feel old huh, this. Is payback by the way yeah this, could go back and forth a long time that's right. But. It's been almost 60, years yep since, you were here in our shoes an incoming. MBA class. Of 1962. What. Kind of person was Phil Knight back at the GSB how would you have described yourself yeah I will but I wanted to tell you first about coming back to campus after being gone for a while.
That You. Go out. 20 years or so and you. Haven't been back for a while and, you come back and it's more about just sharing a moment with family, and friends it's, for a moment you step back in history and remember, when. You had all the worldwide laying out before you and you decided the things that you were going to find important, and it was really the start of you becoming, what he ultimately became. When. I come back for. Just a moment I always hear the voice of Frank, Shallenberger Bob, Davis Jim. Porterfield, and, I know that sounds sort of corny to educated. Group but. I promise you that over half the people in this room when they come back here 20 years from now will, have those same feelings. You. Know for me you know it was. Well. Yeah that I, was. The guy that thought. An extrovert, was the person that stared at other people's shoes that. The. The. It. Was a time, for me to kind of grow and and, chase. What I was really going to become and so. It was really a big. Transitional, period for me in my life and, as I say to this day when I come back I still get inspired and lifted up do. You've any favorite memories from your days back at Stanford oh that, no. It was just a turning point in general for me that. You. Know my if I was honest I'd say that my undergraduate, career. Was really focused. On track and, it. Got to be when I got to be a graduate, student that has really focused on what it was I wanted to be and this. Was just the right school at the right time with the right inspirational. Professors, and it, really doesn't get any better than that mm-hmm so, you do graduate the GSB in 1962. Yep it's, the time when, Silicon, Valley isn't, even a phrase yet right and you, had what you call this, crazy idea what. Was the crazy idea and where, did it come about well. I took the entrepreneurship class from, Frank, Shallenberger and basically. The. Project he had a term project, where you basically either attached yourself to a company, in the area or for. The purpose of the paper made up a company and and, how it would succeed, and. Even. In those days a lot of my classmates were writing about electronics, which, was certainly beyond me since when I turn on a light bulb when I turn on the electric, switch the light bulb comes on it's magic for me but. My. Old track coach was always working, with shoes and that, felt, that you, know a light lightweight and shoes was something that was neglected, by the major manufacturers. Adidas and Puma and, indeed, my senior year Otis Davis won the Pacific. Coast Conference championship, and a pair of homemade Bowerman shoes which were ounce, elated lighter than the other shoes so I kind of put those things together, and and. Said, if you were starting a shoe factory would you still in Germany and, I said it's such a labor-intensive business. It makes more sense to start it in Japan Japan. Being the country, that took, German cameras, didn't and dominated. The camera market says could they do the same thing in sports use now, it's really the thesis of the paper which ultimately I got caught up in and here, we are now. You got an A in that paper right I did okay. But. That mattered if, he, ridiculed, the paper I don't know where we do today. Well, this was a time when, entrepreneurship. Post GSB, was not just a last travel, path it was probably, a less celebrated, path what. Gave you the confidence to, push, ahead. Well. If I didn't know I was gonna have to be an accountant. And. Now that's that's a scary thought no it was. No. But it was a it. Was when, I wrote the paper it it. Just stayed in my head and at. The time I think the the ratio was the 26, out of 12 27, new companies, failed so. I knew the odds weren't high but, I really began, to feel if I could do this that, would, really be meaningful, to me and something that I would really have, a lot of passion for and about and.
So. That's. Where it started and away we went now. Two, years in, many. Of your classmates, have gone dan more traditional, career paths you're. Back in Oregon you're, living, in your old room in the family house and, you're. Selling shoes out, of the trunk of your car did. You ever have dates in, those moments and what was it that kept you going. Well. Obviously there were a lot of doubts, but. That. I. Enjoyed. What I was doing and I, really thought that I, was bringing a product to. The world that was. Better than the other product and and, so, I believed, and and. If you read the book wasn't. Too long before I had a bunch of other people that believed as well and. We. Just, through. All the ups and downs and there were plenty of downs that, we. Never stopped believing and. So. A. Lot, of people say why did you stay with it there were a lot of negative moments and a lot of downturns, and and I look back on those days the most fun I ever had in business it was it. Was that every day every Monday you went to work and you knew it mattered what you did including. Whether you're gonna meet payroll on Friday but, it. Was an exciting, time and. That. That. Frank. Shallenberger had, done a wonderful job of preparing us for you, know being, an entrepreneur, Bob, Davis a marketing professor said if you're gonna be an entrepreneur, he said every, day is a crisis, in every Fridays at Jesus crisis. It. Was kind of the way it was. Now. You, also talk in your book Sherdog about those early, trips to Asia mm-hmm, so, you're. 24, years old, traveling. Alone to, Japan, it's, a culture, you don't know a language, you don't speak to. Try and broker that first shoe import, deal so. This, was a time before, Stanford's. Global study trip Sergey, mixes. Where. Did that ability. To embrace hustle, and uncertainty. Come from in you, well. By the time I got there I believed, and. So. That I believed. That it. Was, a good idea I believe. That if we can I get a cooperative, Japanese factory that I could, make the idea of work and so. Yeah, that overcame you, know when you're bidding I'm, an entrepreneur. And introvert. Why you, basically have to you have to believe you have to overcome the shyness to, to, take certain chances, and I was, willing to do that and, you. Know there were a lot of ups and downs but, ultimate. Worked and you. Know I think at the end of the day you got to believe and, and that's what I did have maybe, above everything else mm-hmm, no as you, said the team grew and you weren't alone in this endeavor and I think. There's no story of Nike with that of course mentioning, Bill. Bowerman your. Former. Track coach at Oregon later, US Olympics, track coach and of course your co-founder, what became Nike, you've.
Described Yourself as a person who's always needed heroes. Why. Was bill a hero, to you and what is it you learn from him well. He was a very, unique person that. That. He was probably the best track and field coach in world for one thing but. He. Was also, at. A certain command, presence and a certain belief in certain leadership things, that, the. Leaders did you. Know he he said I'm not a I'm not a track. Coach he says I'm a professor of competitive, response and. He. He, had a way, of having. Sayings, that got, your attention and, really focused you on attitude his. Strategy for running the mile was start out and run the first two laps at a very fast pace run, the third lap as fast as you can, on the fourth lap triple your speed and. And. They said that you know the Oregon Trail he says, the. The. Cour the the, cowards, never started, in the week died along the way that leaves you and me and that's, once, again him getting it kind of kind of your attitude and is his best one for me it was always. Do. Right and fear no man and. So. He, had a big influence on my life certainly the biggest influence other than my parents and, if, you go back through this sayings and who he was he was always working on attitude, this is a man that had, seen combat in World War two, you, know fired, a gun and been fired at and. He. Had seen competition, that it's its most extreme level and he. Thought he, could his job, as, a confessor professor, of competitive response was to get kids, ready for young, men and young women ultimately. To. Be ready for the the, toughest competition, they can face so you, know he, brought to, me you know a certain attitude which, you. Can be an introvert and have attitude, and, so. That was sort of me and he had a huge influence on that and and he was a hero, of mine in those, days and to this day mm-hmm when, you first met him you described it as love, and fear at first sight right and then, there was a little hate that came after that. He. Really, kind of believed in hazy. That, and, you had to prove that you wanted to be there and so, he would make you go through hoops. Which. I did. Somewhat. Reluctantly. Now. Beyond. Bill of course you, talk with a lot of affection about that core, early, Nike team and. I think you, had a name for each other right, well. Yeah. We. Did oh I. See. You're playing that game, now. That. The. First four or five people, in the company we, wound up calling each other but faces which we. Don't do that anymore were more. Professional, group now. You. Know our view from the top team we've a similar name for each other actually it's good it's, healthy, but. What was it about that early, team and that culture, that made it so successful well. I think first of all they. Were a, bizarre. Group to say the least each of them in his own way but. They. Were and, I hope this showed in a book that they were able very able people that. Really kind of didn't. Get along with society in general so, it was kind of a perfect fit and they, complemented, each other in terms of their abilities, and then, lastly, all of them believed it, was they they just when, we would hit a down period nobody thought this is in okay okay we got to get together and find their way out of this one and so. It was fun, being a foxhole with those guys and, and. Basically. It's corny but we loved each other and we were going to go through this come, hell or high water and it, was a very exciting, intense, time and it.
As, I say I. Love those times mm-hmm. You fought a lot of crises together, yeah, for, sure in, recent years Phil we've seen many high-profile. Disruptive. Companies. Being. Pressured, to rein in what we're seeing is aggressive. Macho. Win, at all costs, cultures, cultures, that have brought these companies so. Much early success in their life. Just. Last year Nike, faced some, similar accusations and, the. Management, team made some pretty decisive, changes. When. You grow from a start-up to a, 74,000, person team, how, do you preserve the best of that winning culture in a more complex. Diverse. Global workforce yeah, well, he touched on a lot of things there that I, mean, I do think that Becky's. Culture is a big part. Of its reasons for success and, the. Culture really was formed in the early days by the way, the four people plus me, and. It. Still exists, to this day I'd. Say a lot of people say well if Phil had a dominant influence on that and he didn't, I mean I've often said many times Nike. Is young and irreverent, and I'm neither that. But. It did, it did to, use barman's word addict they came within a certain attitude and. And. It was sort of us, that's who we were and the. Culture has been modified some and which is a good thing and but, it's still kind of basically, there and I think it's a big part of its strength that. Yeah. So I I. Hope, that that culture is is, basically, in place you know twenty years from now it. And, and it's one thing it fits with sort of our view. Then. And now about, what a brand is you. Know it doesn't matter how many people hate your brand as, long as enough people love it and as. Long as you have that out you can't be afraid of offending people. You can't try, and go down in the middle of the road you have to take a stand on something which. Is ultimately I think why the Kapernick had worked mm-hmm. Well that's let's, jump into those athletes so I want to take you back to 1978. Phil. You. Stumble, across a shy, timid. Retiring. Stanford, tennis player by. The name of John. McEnroe, timid. I wouldn't say. Well, we, got, to see a little bit of John in that video but for anyone who doesn't know tennis, John, is a young. Fantastic. Tennis player who's as well known for breaking racquets, as he is breaking serve he. Is everything, that the tennis establishment. At the time the. Major majority. Of the market was not so. What made him the, right ambassador for Nike well. The the the story. Basically. We. Had. An agreement with Jimmy Mac Jimmy Connors agent. For. Him to were in high case shoes and, he, did he warm. That. Will Melton and the. Agent said as soon as he gets back from Wilmington, we'll get it signed well. They won one Milton and, soon. He got back from Europe. Boy he had summer matches, and then, came the US Open and he said as soon as we get done with the US Open we'll get this contract signed well, they won the US Open and then, we got down to sign the contract says I don't remember it this way that. Was Jimmy Connors agent not Jimmy Connors but. That was the end of our endorsement with Jimmy Connors and. So, the. Next year I think it was that well. I went to Wilmington, you know looking for the next great hope and, there. Were a bunch of really. Good American young Americans 18 and under I was looking at the 18 and unders and they had Brian Godfrey, who is a great player in Elliot Telstra was a great player and the head, of USA tennis, was saying those are really great endorsements, stay, away from that kid McEnroe, he's too much of a hothead he's. Playing over on court 14, I went right to Fort 14. And. Basically. That week he was playing the. Number 16 player in the world filled int and he's. 18 years old and hits his first serve in, and the, chalk flies up and the, line judge goes out. McEnroe. Jumps over the net puts his nose this far from the official he says are you sure that call are you very sure that call Wow, and I turned to the guys with his this kids not afraid and. You. Know I kind of became a fan of.
His. Intensity. And his competitiveness. And his attitude, he. Did lose. Control, sometimes but. That. Well. I always, remember Frank Deford right. Of Hindman and. Sports. Illustrated when, he said a big picture of mechanist why isn't this man smiling. Beethoven. Didn't smile much either. That's. Fair, a few. Years later actually, several, years later you decided, to name the executive, building at your headquarters in Oregon after, John McEnroe, what. Is it you were trying to say to the team at Nike in doing that. Well. We named all the buildings after our. Heroes at. The time and, you. Know he was one of them and that just that was where my office was, fair. Enough you're, glad to see him back playing well and I that makes me feeling better now. Let's, fast-forward to 1984. You come across another decent, basketball. Players name, is Michael. Michael Jordan Jordan Michael, Jordan that's it. Now. Nike were actually criticized, at the time for overpaying, for Jordan's signature but. Of course with, hindsight he. Became more than an athlete he became a two and a half billion dollar revenue brand, for Nike. Beyond. MJ's, greatness. What. Was it that made that brand so, successful, and so dominant, yeah it's it, isn't something you can bottle it's. Been you, know truly, one of the unique. Experiences, really in all. Of marketing, that. Obviously. He. Had it all and and. We pretty much knew that coming in I mean he was Player of the Year he, was handsome he could jumping and. That. He won, the national championship, with a winning shot yeah. At all but and. Yeah. When we signed him we. Signed him for more than any rookie had been paid before was signing for $250,000. A year and fortune. Magazine ran. A little insert. Another. Article, says there's no greater indication, that Nike has lost its way than the fact that they paid Michael Jordan, $250,000. And. But. That, it's. But. We can't combined it with. What. We. Thought was a really good shoe a really distinctive, shoe was red and black it wasn't just white or black and, of. Course he wore to great, and great performances, and then we had the added benefit, of David. Stern banned it in the NBA so, he immediately. Mind what became, a good ad says banned in the NBA and every kid in the world one of that and. That. And, it's it, hasn't been straight uphill it had a one year where sales actually went down but overall, that was the what, we got, together was, really good advertising, which reflected, his personality, which was strong, and. It's. Been an unbelievable, success that. When. He quit playing. Sales. Of Jordan Brand product, over 750, million dollars and this. Last fiscal year they topped three billion dollars, and, long. After he quit planned so as I said to many people imagine how much we'd sell if he'd never played. We. Can only dream. Phil. Its Nikes, 55th, anniversary next, week I believe yeah. The. Company's at record revenue levels and just. Last year Nike, was voted alongside Apple, as the, favored brand of, Millennials, and I think there's a few of us in here who might attest, to that, how. Does a brand stay, so, relevant to, so many people for, so long, well. It's. It's, hard work but. You have to work at it all the time but I think you know our thing obviously it. Starts, with the product the the product is by far most marketing, our, most important marketing tool and so. We're constantly working, to improve product, and so the, kind of the recent upturn is because we've had a really good product, pipeline.
Probably. The react running. Shoe is, number. One on the list but there's been a lot of others and that. So, that's that's been really important and then you know good, advertising, is critical. To it that you. Know that, the, Wieden and Kennedy experience. Has been is. In. Many ways as dramatic, as Nikes and it's really been kind of a long slide each other when, I first met Dan Wyden I, walked. Into the door of his quote office he, had three. People besides himself sitting, around a card table and. He said welcome to widen Kennedy, and I just, want you to know one thing I hate advertising, and, he looked at me says well this would be interesting. And. It has been but it is interesting that you know obviously if I would have said that Procter, & Gamble I'd have been on they take your 25. Million take your $25, advertising, budget and go on at the door but. They were a small advertising, firm and. He. Grew to, understand. That, what I didn't, mean was that I hated advertising, what I meant was I hate traditional, advertising, and he. Found ways to find out who Nike, is or who, Michael Jordan was and project. That to the consumer and, not only the Nike you, know succeed. Wieden. And Kennedy now, has offices, all over the world you, know over a thousand, employees it, has coca-cola. As a client as Honda's a client, has a lot of the world's, most famous brands its clients they've been an enormous success and. To. This day they work really hard at, trying. To find out you know who it is and, who, the athlete is and how, to project them I know we. Had Boris. Becker the great tennis players and we were trying to get him as an endorsement and Dan Wyden was making the pitch and he says we, will find out who you are and project that to the world and Morris, says how, in the world can you know who I am when I don't know who I am. And. Just. Said well we'll find out, well we didn't we didn't make the sale he didn't we didn't get this we didn't sell him but but. That is one of the things they've done so the advertising, and the product are two. Of the two, the really important things and then keeping, the product for us and keeping the advertising, fresh and it's an ongoing challenge and, we. Don't always hit it you know a couple years ago we took a little dip and it's. A very very competitive business and in. Every six months is kind of a new life and everybody, has to be aware that mmm. Phil. This is a school, and a speaker series dedicated to leadership, so we want to make sure we we. Touch on that topic something. The, MBA one class is challenged, with each year is why, would someone follow, you I think. There. Can be a stereotype, of what a CEO should be sometimes, we think of them as a natural extrovert, around, the valley sometimes, they can be hero like characters. You. Described yourself as, shy. Introverted. Someone. Who identifies. With the Bourne. However. Those. That's. Why that's why we get on that. But. But how if those traits helped you as you built Nike well I think you, know I mean obviously.
Introverted. Introverted, people have a tendency to listen which. I think good, leaders do but. When I was in school that you. Know they talked about two different types of leadership they, talked about autocratic, leadership and, Democratic, leadership and you know it was only, 15. Years after World War two and you know they had two, of the great autocratic, leaders everyone Douglas, MacArthur, and George. Patton and, they. At the time looked, on as being very successful that. Then, you have a democratic, style leadership, which is you, know, the thing is getting. People involved and, talking to people and. That. So. I think, for. It's. Probably almost impossible, for an. Intro to be an autocratic, leader, but. Internet can be a Democratic, leader and, the. Idea, of democratic leadership, progressed, this, is the this started. To talk use the term collaborative, leadership which. Is really in my view the ultimate and only kind of leadership to this day that, in this day and age autocratic, leader doesn't work it, can, work for temporarily. But, it won't work long run and, I. Hope that the, people in this in this auditorium, today don't get the idea that hero, leadership, means, being autocratic, and you. Know that I mean obviously I think Steve, Jobs has looked at is really kind of in this area of one whole. World really has been one of the great leaders which I believe, he was but. I do believe at, the end of his career he was beginning to modify, his you. Know natural autocratic, style which, if you will got him fired his first tour around. Apple. And as he got, to go through Apple the second time there, was a change in Steve Jobs and, you notice that from the commencement speech he gave to to. Stanford, University and and he hired Tim Cook and he had a lot of give-and-take with Tim Cook and Tim, Cook who I know quite well is, very, much a collaborative, leader and and, I believe a great collaborative leader so I think that, you it just. Don't equate hero, leadership, with autocratic, leadership the, only Thai style of leadership that will work in this day and age is. Collaborative. Leadership mm-hmm, I fell, another thing you may know about this group is that we're pretty touchy-feely, bunch these days, of. Course in your book you describe business, as war without bullets yeah so. As. You look back in those early days and I keep dealing with those crises, we're, solve skills tools, an. Entrepreneur like you could really afford back. Then what. Type of what. Type of skills are talking about the, softer skills the touchy-feely well I think yeah. I mean. Yeah. I think that. Looks. You dog obviously I don't come across as a touchy-feely type and, neither. Were any of those top. Five, but there's lots of different ways of communicating and. I. One, of the things I don't like about the, politically, correct movement, is that, to.
Me It politically, correct has been. Founded. By people that couldn't communicate and, they don't want you to communicate very well either because. Communications. Really is a kind of an individual, thing everybody's. A little bit different it's like people have, different fingerprints they have different, personalities. They have different emotions, and I think the leaders job is to know who his team is and there's, different, ways to communicate with that team, we, weren't touchy-feely, in the sense that we were always patting, each other back and say how we feel but, you could say how you doing today son of a bitch didn't mean the same thing and. So. There's. Just different ways the different, ways to to. Do, they like to do that mm-hmm I think we need to bring that into the chatter, on campus these days. Now. Phil we we. Also, study, a lot here had leaders act in times of crisis Nike. And yourself, have dealt with several, today. The Nike brand is stronger than ever but of course in the late 90s, Nike. Did, for some time become synonymous with, sweatshops. And slave, wages as, you. Look back, how. Do you feel you handle that crisis, what would you do differently and what are you most proud of, well. The. One. Of the things that. That. We didn't talk about in Business School when I was here was the media and. So. I think probably this, group is, probably much more aware of the media but it's. It's, always there it's more prevalent than it's ever been and they're. Not always consumed. By facts. That. And. So when they when they first charges, came at Nike, run. Sweatshops. That. You. Know it's. A it's a really. Seductive. Argument, to say this, person only makes four dollars a day and Michael. Jordan makes you. Know thirty million dollars a year and Phil Knights worth two billion dollars, and and, isn't. This awful and. But. Our. Initial reaction was, that we, don't run sweatshops, and. That. You're. Wrong and, I. Was, the CEO at the time and, that was my strategy and it was awful, it. Didn't work and so. We kind, of after. About a year that, it. Became clear and so, we took another tack which says yeah. You can you can criticize the ones but this is what we're going to be and this is how we're going to be a better company over the next ten years and we're going to take these steps each year and you come look at any of our factories, anywhere in the world that you want and we've.
Kind Of been on that path ever since and that's basically, working and I, do think you. Know that we. Have had lots of good comments that don't get much publicity from the media and you. Know one of the good ones was a member, the United Nations says Nikes the gold standard for all apparel companies and how they run, their run, their factories, and, it's. A constant battle oh because we're always kind of looking, for new factories, or changing factories, and we. Have most of our shoe, factories, and our good apparel collectors have been with us for 20 or 25 years but economics. Change at different times so you do change some of them on the periphery so it's a constant battle to live up to the standards we have but we, have a whole team at Nike, that, does that all the time and basically, is talking to people on the production line all the time and I. Do think that our, factories, are the best in the world right now for, conditions. And and it's it's a basic, truth that. Great shoes are made by great factories, you don't want a you know you. Know a bad factory, making your ear the best shoes in the world that. Feels something, else we, hear a lot from the media but also occasionally. At Stanford is to find and follow your passion, and, you. Are perhaps, the example, of someone who, built. A business, dedicated. To something they love which is sports and athletes, there's. Many of us in the room today who, I feel are struggling, to maybe tie our true passions, to a viable, business or. Career. What. Would you say to people like us well, I think you know that one thing that is left out is that you got to have a niche you got to have a reason, to succeed, my. Reason that was that you know Japan could make shoes, economically, and, that. But. Then. The rest of it you know fit right and home base for me so. And. I do think if you're gonna be an entrepreneur, it has to be something that you really love because there will be a lot of dark days and as. I say we never. Hesitated. In those mark dark, days so I I was, fortunate enough to find, what I thought was a niche to go with my passion and that's, that's what you need to bring those two things together but. When you do you're very very fortunate and take advantage of it mm-hmm, all right well look Phil this has been brilliant thus far I know Nike, say there is no finish line we, do need to finish in about 15 minutes Phil this has been brilliant, we're.
Almost Gonna let you go not quite yet there's. A little tradition we like to do up here on stage and, called a lightning round so. The idea is I'm gonna ask you a set of either/or questions, we want you to answer the one answer. That comes first in your mind okay. You. Didn't warn me about this. You. Didn't tell me you were gonna mention me I might get back to her. All. Right look, because it's a, new thing we're gonna start easy and then we'll get harder okay so, Jordan. Or LeBron. That's. Like asking which, of your kids do you like better, okay. You can tell me backstage is fine. Rose. Bowl or Super Bowl Rose. Bowl. 340. Mile or two hour marathon. Two. Hour marathon nice. Suit. Or track suit oh man. Track, suit. Just. Do it or dream crazy just. Do it, Hawaii. Or Palm Springs, Hawaii. Beatles. The Rolling Stones, Beatles. That. Was easy. Breaking. Bad or The Sopranos who. Probably. Sopranos, but that's tough, we. Were told it was tough for you, adidas. Or barefoot. Barefoot. Ladies. And gentlemen Phil Knight. Fine. You.