Microsoft Business Forward 2018 | Fireside Chat with Prince Constantijn
Good. Afternoon. Please welcome back Ernst. Ian stinker. Good. Afternoon. Good. Afternoon how, is the energy, good. Sale, good welcome. Back welcome, back to. The finals of this, formal. Part of the program at this this upcoming fire chat our. Next guest is in the business of enabling. Startups, and scallops. To. Achieve more in the Netherlands, and beyond. He. Leads an organisation, whose focus, is to strengthen, connect. Grow. And most of all internationalize. The. Striving. Startup. Ecosystem. Of the Netherlands and as a gateway, to. The. Rest of Europe, and the world so. Please welcome His Royal Highness Prince Constantin, startup and voice of the Netherlands to come to the stage please give him a warm round of applause. Welcome. Me welcome, have, a seat thank you. So. Constantine, the Dutch, culture, is one. Of, innovation. Where. We have had an impact on mostly, every, industry. From agriculture. To infrastructure. And what, have you but. But what do you think is, the. Core of why, that is. I. Think, the. Dutch like, to challenge, authority. And. That's really important, right you always have to ask the why question, why am I doing this which really annoying, you know you know your kids whenever you say we're just gonna do that so why you. Have to start explain and then you know and. So. Other cultures, might be more. Prone. To accepting. Authority, we don't and so, that thing is one to is if. We didn't have innovation with this country would have been one, third or one in half of the size so we had to kind of grow our country, because. We were not strong enough to conquer other other. Lands, we had to build around so we basically conquered, that on the sea which is uh, so. That's another one and. I think that's a democratized. Our country a lot because you. You. Know you you typically. Would have an overlord, that protects you against other, armies, coming in or looting, your your-your-your, lands. We. Had the sea and. You can't go to an overlord and say well can you protect me against the sea but he don't do very much right so he had a whole system, of civil servants, and and and and and. Engineers. Basically, protecting, us which is a completely different. Society. Than a more food or system. So I think that. And then we had windmills that were early, kind of. Early. Industry which. Allowed us to to. Grow a fleet, which was much bigger than we would usually have, as a small country like this so the number of innovations have really, driven, the. Dutch quite early on and but, I think it most important is there is the continues why, question, the why question, yeah that's a good one and when, you just would, zoom in a little bit on Technol and an innovation. And. The role that it has played over the years in towards, the Dutch success, what. Do you think the impact will be moving, forward on technology, and the Dutch the. Dutch component. To it well. I think I think I. Actually. Don't know about that I think it's not so much the technology I think it is how do you apply the technology, and, and. Are you and now scale, was really important, so it's really how is your what's your ability, to.
To. Skill something faster, growth is really important, all over the world we're developing the same things. All. Of the over the world we have the same technology so, it's the only those that. Are able to either because they they connect better they can collaborate, better they they kind, of cross pollinate, between sectors, that their. Innovation. Will accelerate and then it's about execution and so. The Netherlands very good in in developing concepts, and taking. Difficult, finding solutions, to difficult problems we're, not always that good at scaling it so. We'll you'll find that are many solutions in the Netherlands for problems that we'd even think, of being, unique community, for water management for also. In agri-food you know we just do it at home but we don't think of scaling it to friends, new markets like China. Now. In your, capacity consultant you are the special employ of start of Delta 2020. Can you tell us a little bit more about that program. Yeah. So the program, started, because there was a hypothesis, that in the Netherlands were doing much better and much more than people really knew so we had to go out tell the world you know we had a shout a bit louder because I think some people went to Silicon Valley and they heard that you have, to fake. It till you make it and you're you have to kind of scream about how big you are and how good you are and then people, will start to believe you so, that was the basic, eye posture so they thought, that you know by I think this was the government by inviting nail EKU's to you, know on that job that she would go around and she would use her rolodex and kind of start, selling, the Netherlands so she said I'm not gonna be cheese lady for the Netherlands I'm not gonna go around and tell, tell, the world how great is this, all is because she, wasn't really convinced that it was actually the case and she definitely didn't want to do that for the, government because, she, was fed up with government she said I'm fed up with brokers, I'm, done with the European Commission now I'm gonna leave I'm gonna go to Silicon. Valley or New York and she's working with Merrill Lynch and with Salesforce. And with uber. So, that was kind of her future and. Then but. He did like startups, I mean she did like the young people innovating new.
Technologies, All that kind of stuff but she felt that I wish she was not gonna go work for the government, so. Eventually. We, can talk, to her and say well what would it take for you to do this and, say why want to control over the part of the policy I want to take it out of out. Of the Haig it has to be in in. Amsterdam. Is that's the flagship, brand, of the Netherlands and I. Want to hire my own people so most. Of that was dealt with so she started, and started was really selling. The Netherlands but also connecting, what was there and, it was a one-off year program supposed to stop had, to be temporary. You just took another Kickstarter and I was it and and. She didn't want to go on and but, then people came to her enterpreneurs. And also invest and said you know but it's not good enough you know there's lots to be done still and and. Then they approached me and asked if I could if I could continue so. I had a few demands it I want to get out of the government so it has to be independent I I, want. A bigger mandate, I want to work for entrepreneurs, and accelerators, and for, a lot of the innovation, hubs in the Netherlands and not so much for for the government, I think that was really important, and I. Won't have my independence so and and that, was okay so I got that and we work very much on the system for one half year so things like knowledge transfer and universities, how do we attract. More foreign. Foreign, investment, how can we make sure that our visa, system is better so we can attract talent in the Netherlands you know all of those kind of things very much, on the system so less with intrapreneurs, but more, with you, know these, these institutions, and. Now we're in the next one half a year iteration, we um do these prints and I'm gonna work much more with with, the entrepreneurs, supporting, them in their internationalization. Important. Supporting. Also, teams. And universities, that have high potential for first. For scaling have you know really good technologies, help, them to actually to. Do. Scale and basically. Bring our network to bear for, their support and, and. Also become much more data-driven, we actually we didn't know what we were doing so we didn't even know you, know how many startups, to war you know different reports saying we wouldn't say something. Like 2500. Startups the other would say 5000, startups and we, didn't know in which phase of development, they, were we didn't know if somebody would ask an investor would say well can, you show us the. 20 best AI startups. In the Netherlands, no. We could go to if, you guys or we go to two, other people will go to an accelerator, you know we basically ask around the city sure can you give us a few of those companies but they, get so many of these requests, that they here wouldn't respond much so we didn't really know so. Now we're working with deal room to have a do, to prove I mean by this bit by mid, this year we'll we, hope to have a hundred percent of the Dutch. Ecosystem. Mapped we've, read of relevant, information about, their. You know the age of stage, the technology, they're working on the. You, know finances. Who have who's who's, funded them, all. Of these kind of things to make data driven much, more data driven and eventually you know it's it's it's for, supporting. Us but, we are working also with the camera from kondal so eventually we hope to those two kind of the two kind of datasets who, can be can be merged and we hope to give it give it to the public so that in the end you know it's not up to us to match make between an investor and startup but, that you know just leave investors. To find startups, and vice-versa or startups to find each other, and. Let it kind of self organize, in. Your capacity now, working. With all these startups. What, has surprised, you the most in working with them. Yeah. What surprised me is.
That. Some. Of them are so focused on either product, or technology that they did that they forget to ask some really really basic questions, and. And. So somehow, you know you know you have to go to find, an investor so they run to an investor without really understanding what, their market is or and they're solving a problem, so you apply, a technology, to a problem and, that's really important problem but to ask yourself the question but who's gonna pay for it no and how are you gonna scale this, what. Are you are you an agency, are you consultancy. Are you are. You a software company, or you, know and these questions just don't come up and and. I think it's mostly, maybe also because the concept of startup is now so strong everybody thinks that their startup but. Obviously startup needs to come so I'm gonna be replicable business, model that skills and. It. Doesn't mean that you that you're you starting a business yet I mean that's fine but that's not what we're, about so. That that surprises, me. We're. Also surprised me that that, there's. So much interesting, things going on we don't, know about you, know and. The people that are supposed to know don't know about it either. Because. You know I went went to certain region in the Netherlands where we do a lot of high-tech you, are some key show us the best best, of your stuff you see them you know they're presenting, a really good companies you know or nice, nice technologies, company. Good companies and technologies, not always the same thing, and. I. Spoke. To some investor, and say open but no well, you shouldn't have seen all those guys you should have seen that that in that company because they're going really fast but they're not in there, they may be based there but they have their clients all over the world they really have an office in in the US they may be producing, in China and, nobody, hears of them those. Are the really good ones so the guys that don't come to us or the girls they don't come to us they are they're really good ones yeah. Excellent. And. Now. We're talking about these these subjects, like the challenges, and the barriers that these, startups, are facing, what's. Your view on. You. Know the more corporate world of the let's say the more mature companies, first, the startup system what's your point of view are we are. We supposed, to work more closely together, should, we be more having a start-up, mindset, what's your view, what's. The beauty of a standard that. You would suggest. I think there's are very different questions, I think should, you work with them or and. What's the difference I think. Yes. I think and as you know I mean we just discussing it your values about being open and and I think we all now acknowledge that within your organization, you probably don't have all the brains in the best brains of the world you might have very bright people but. You conditioned them because of your culture, because of your Prosis C's and all that so a lot of innovation, will be coming from the outside and if once you acknowledge that and once that becomes part of your innovation strategy. You you'll, organize for it I think, we're there is what what, things go wrong people you, know in companies, they think, startups are nice things and then you know and then you, put a few bean bags in your your you know you give an OpenOffice it's like you will have a very nice open office and you think that everybody comes running in your door because you are such a brilliant, technology, company and everybody will want to work with you but.
They That the first disc you know they ask you who do you know who can I approach for a certain question well. We don't know or you have to go there they're there so they get lost in the company the. Corporates. Typically, don't pay their bills in time and that could kill a company, because, you might be the launching customer so. A lot of things that on there that make it difficult to collaborate and I just always think well if if it's really part, an integrated, part of the strategy of a corporate to work with startups then you organize it well you understand, what startups you want to work with and, you signal that to the to the startup and a, lot of stars are not ready to work with live corporates so, it's it's up to both sides to to want to make it work and then it then it can work really well but. It's really how do you capture the ideas, from. From outside the walls of your company and. And how you're able to to, apply those within. Within, with. Your clients, within your processes with your project Suites in a way that. We're. Gonna help them grow and you. Do that in an. Honest way you know very many of these startups feel that if they work of a corporate their, idea will be stolen, and you, know they they, all, their hard work goes goes to, waste and. And, it's not always wrong and it's, not always intention. I think of the corporate but it's because. Someone. In the top thinks it's really important to do so but the middle management might feel, differently, especially if you provide. A service that is in some way competing, with the service that you're providing yourself. So. It's I, think. It is strategically, really important. And. It can be completely complimentary you, have the agility of a start-up did the ideas that they're the the. Flexibility. On one hand and you know the corporate will have who, we will be capitalized, and they have they, have the clients, the networks, they have they know how to optimize, processes so, you have these two and they could be fully. Compatible. And, complimentary. But, it's that kind of where, Connect is that's. Where you have to put your energy, makes. Sense now. Startup Delta concludes partnerships. With corporates, to ensure better access, for startups, to these potential, clients and, investors and, technology, providers, today. We have the leaders here in this audience in this room, of. Many established, businesses, and, and. And. If there would be one thing that that, this audience could learn from a start-up what what would that be well, what would you say that that is something I would like to see in every single, company.
Well. I don't know but the good thing about the startup is is if you to break into a market you have to do a few things much, much better than the incumbents, so or very, differently so I think that mindset is important, so you have to either. Understand, the customer much better. And. Provide a usually. Superior, service or you, serve a market that the incumbent, doesn't see I mean, it said as you had this conversation recently, about about, uber. They. Were, serving. A market, of chauffeurs. So it's a b2b company basically so you've never serving the market suit of chauffeurs, that were not served, before so they, were not you know people. Were not taking more caps but just something there wasn't another option, for them, which was cheaper and better and, nobody saw it coming because it was so expensive to become a cab and and, there. Was no there was no new entrants and suddenly you. Know there's a there seems to be a whole untapped market, of people that are willing to grab their car and start driving people, around so, if. You. That. Kind of, mindset. Of looking where, where. There is an untapped market. That, is something and that might the corporates might even not find interesting because you are you've been driven down, the funnel and you're serving a, customer, you know with a product you know which incrementally, improve, all the time all the time you're driving down that path that you might not know that there's a big, highway there that should not make you're not servicing, yet so those are things you can i think i think learn or decently as. Long as you expose, yourself to, to, these ideas and meeting those people you might kind of pick, up some of those ideas well. Makes. Sense now. With the far, space of business today only. Going. Up the. Speed is just going. Up all the time in addition. To tools and technologies, a company needs to have a culture, that embraces. Change, and. That's. A diverse need and and, constantly, being. In a learning mode is what we believe is what. The future will be all about and at, Microsoft, we call that the growth mindset. Carol. Dweck has has, written a book about that that I recommend, to you, to read and. What. But in your view constant, I know when it comes to growth mindset. How. Important, is that I, think. What for for a startup is its it, should be everything as. I said you know you have the technologies, or the services are being developed anywhere, in the world I would working in in that slush is a big tech conference, in in. Helsinki. And just. I mean. Everybody. Is doing the same things everybody is revolutionizing, education. Healthcare. I. Don't, know SAS. Services. Everybody is. In, that space and and, why is one surviving, and the other is it and it's. Probably because one is focusing. On on how can we scale this so much faster how can I go into, markets because that's. That's what it's all about once you guys pick it up the idea you know you can you can go much faster than they can because you've got everything laid out ready so they, they. Have to think about that that's, bead and. An. Agility. And if, you don't have that and it's gonna be very difficult to compete me and these in software, it doesn't really you can't just stay in the Netherlands you have to start from the first moment, on you to think about, how you go abroad and actually. A very interesing company in the Netherlands which, they're not in the nez they don't even have an office which, could be a good example for you guys who don't have an office at the moment yeah yeah very good, they.
They. Called. Gitlab. And. They they're, competitors, of github and, they. Have 200 people all over the world. They don't have a they, don't have an office they have they do meet ups and but. They've managed to organize, themselves for. For, speed and, agility and. You, see that that actually can work and they, they. Also have very strong corporate, corporate, culture we have to have something that binds you together, but. If you look at and I spoke to the to the the. Founder, and. Talking. About this growth idea. That. He set, himself really. Really really high. Objective. He said IPO. In 2020, they, put it on his website and I asked him why do you do that why do you limit yourself why are you limit your options and he said if, I don't do that, I. Will, go back, and focus on what I think is realistic. And. If I if, I but. If I work towards, a target of going of IPO, and in 2020, I can get my whole this whole company everybody to, work harder towards that objective and, he, could have put 20 20 he. Could have said you know will be worth. 50. Million or be worth 10 million in 2020, and everybody. Would be working through that folk to that goal and so, sometimes it's also about kind of you know really setting yourself that objective, and and somebody, works against, your culture I think the Dutch culture is not like that you know it's not kind of promising. The world every will tell you yeah yeah yeah yeah, yeah you're kind of calm, down calm down we be rational, and, and. That's not a supportive, mindset. In an exponential world makes. Sense makes. Sense there one of the things that, triggered. Me very recently was a report, about. The happiest people on the planet and we just briefly, elaborated, on it before and, it. Seemed that on. The planet, in. The, top 10 we have 7 Western, European, countries, 7. Western. European countries, considered. Inheriting. The happiest, people on the planet and that's. Great because being, happy is, a good thing at. The same time it drives the degree of convenience. And, maybe lack, of appetite things. Are good enough, so. What I hear you saying is the, example you just mentioned is we should aim higher. In. Order to innovate. Faster. To have more impact would that be something you would sympathize. With. Aiming. Higher being, bolder well, you can aim high but if there's no urgency why we've yeah right. So. Because. Actually yeah we've achieved what most societies. Want to achieve right maybe, you can say that certain ways we are we. Are actually. Maybe. None less, integrated. There's, a bigger, wealth disparity. It's least growing so those are issues we need to deal with but on the whole our society, need is very happy, we. Don't have this kind of urgency or Drive and why would you start. A company have no social security, have. No health insurance nothing. And basically, to drive your, idea, and run all the risk and then build a company and then get HR. Nightmares, and you know why why would you want to do that if. You're, basically had a four percent, unemployment, rate everybody, can just get a job. And. It's very different if you are in a country like Israel where, is an existential Drive, you, know to you. There's no market so you have to go abroad you have to find markets and but you have to scale you first. They have to innovate to. Get water then at the end to get innovate, to get food and now, they're innovating, in all kinds of ways and so and but there was a really, really strong Drive in. Europe you know you, know I mean in the Netherlands why would you you know so here, it really is a choice either because you you you know you feel some some, kind of real pain that you want to deal with or you find some beautiful technology, that you want to develop or, or and there's a lot of lifestyle, stuff to people just want to be independent and do their thing you, do see that actually than the Netherlands people sell, out really early so, they like to build the company you know you know you have 20, employees or something you have a devaluation, of 50 million sell.
Out You know start something new why, go for all the hassle of starting a barrier and scaling. And all that so, I think. That. Is probably one of our biggest challenges you know and. I was actually, gave an interview once and one of the comments I got back is it so you're saying that our social welfare system, is is. Is bad, for entrepreneurship, and that you basically you, know the harsh conditions like. In Silicon Valley your conditions are we you. Housing. Prices are ridiculously, high that, the. Public services are crap the. Health. Care is unaffordable. You. Know so you, have to you have to there's. Go yes, absolutely pretty platform, so the, assumption, was that I have said that or that, you know we have to get rid of there are. Kind, of very comfortable. Social. Welfare state to get people to become more entrepreneurial, and I don't I don't actually, say that but. I do say that it's, you'll. Find more entrepreneurial, Drive if there is urgency. Good. What, do you think companies, can do to encourage their employees, to to. Embrace change or, urgency is there any advice you could, give. Well. You. Can go nearly broke that kind of cake, changes. The drive and the urgency I mean companies, like okay. Well you're, a partner company Nokia, at the time you know they've how, they've reinvented themselves, has been kind of there's, that existential feeling. Yes, yes then you will have to do something but. It's I think it's it's it's if, four companies must be less difficult, I mean you have your. Your, quarterly. Reporting, and you have all the kind of measure of it and so there is a kind of clear indicator, you know your you have your KPIs, and you can drive against that it's, more about how do you open up so, it's not about kind of how do you create that drive I, think, how do you open up and let, people you. Know exploit their talents within the company and not do that at home, you. Know if you allow. Enough space for them to develop their ideas not. To shoot them down immediately because, they, don't fit the company and. Invest. In those people I. Think, that's that that's the challenge and, and. Also a lot of people from the outside in, and. And, so, how, do you change your company from being very. Proprietary, very. Close, to, very open, and. And. And actually how do you share the. Value that you're creating with. With those outsiders, I think that's that's. The more difficult part. Now. Talking a little bit about, disruption. And as a method to create, appetite. For change education is, a very hot topic we all know that skills for the future are. Critical. To capture, the jobs of the future and we have a long way to go in Holland for that we. See a lot of good initiatives. Happening. But, it's very fragmented, still and. The. Education, system itself you could say or argue, needs. Some disruption, - in order to do things differently, we, will be short of teachers, we will be short of power there are many that, let's say the, sky isn't painted that blue you know you could say and. I've. Learned that in Singapore, they they have done some nice experiments. To create a kind of a shock effect. In. The classroom, could you elaborate a little bit on that well. They did they, went fully, digital, and and and, and yes Singapore. Is slightly different, right you have it's basically run like a company, and you know the, executives, don't have a bokken in the norm. They. And. It's relatively, top-down, but indeed one of the things what the fun, things was that they actually forced. The. Schools to send their kids home. For a few months or a few weeks I don't know exactly and so, that they had to find ways of teaching, those kids through through internet and through through. Distant, methods which which was I think very innovative, because. They had to do it and and. They, managed and it's it, that changes the mindset with the teachers I, think. There are Dutch I mean, is this is again the urgency, right if you look at all this the, benchmarks, in Dutch education, system is really up still up there like our health care system and and all, that so there is a, limited. Sense of urgency to to.
Change It if I think most parents will feel much bigger, sense of urgency than. Many people in education themselves I mean you know that our kids are not not, being. Taught coding, coding. We're not being told. How, to deal, with, social. Media how to deal, with information, and. I find, that really really, shocking. Actually because you have you, know they all. To. Be trained and with new media if you look at my kids they are they're, being educated like I was thirty years ago and they, have someone even have the same materials, and that means that the publishers. Or the people that are developing, the materials, and the methods for for education, are, kind, of are. Really. Stopping. A lot. Of the innovation has already happened all over the world we're seeing, wonderful. New. Education. Method new schools that really focus on. Getting. The kids to these kids are innately. Curious, but. We kill that right we, don't. Ask the kid you know or, don't we don't build on their curiosity. You know we we say okay now stop asking questions shut, up sit in the class we're gonna put, a lot of knowledge into you if, you see the stupid knowledge we put in those kids you know how often are you actually using, that. So. Instead of. Looking. Around the world and looking with really good methods there are and applying that and we're. Faced with with a system. That produces really, good general. Outputs but. I think, it. Is in need of I don't know if you call a disruption, I think that's a bit abrupt but I. Think definitely we. Need to implement some, some. Of those methods that are that are out there and are producing, really good results, so, in that sense we should continue to challenge, authority and, keep. Fighting for a better a better education, system in that sense yeah. And and I think I think what's really important, is that our teachers, should. Have a much higher status I mean the the fin fins have done it and it all shows that it's all possible it's all a decision, right so if you want to if you think our youth is our future and, if we know that Netherlands is you know it's a knowledge-based. Society then, you would think that that investing, in education, is even. If you double the budget makes, more sense than doubling the budget or healthcare. Because. I mean they're just and. I yeah. I mean I'm not a politician and I'm not supposed to comment on these things but I I really do think that. It's there where we need to invest and. If. Our kids run, around with a device all day and there's nothing, the, only thing they're using it for is basically checking their agenda, of school, if. That's the only way we are we are able to use that advice in in classrooms, I think that's, deplorable. I know, that I say that you don't believe in these iPad, schools because then it's again it's just the technology but it's the whole way that, you engage with with, information. That kids get, to understand, what what. What information, means where it comes from what what the, motives. Are of the people that are actually providing. That information that. Kind of thinking that's. Really really important, and if we, don't want our kids to only be consumers, of of. That content we want them to be, producers, of that content to so why aren't we doing much more of the happiness schools as well I think, it's all it's all there as possible it just needs a few decisions. Just. A few just. A few decisions you, know and. It's. Not difficult it's, and, you know I mean you're working you've been a sponsor. Of future and L and the. Stuff, is there we're now reaching a. Few thousand, schools you know so it's possible and, it's, for no reason, why there are still people. Exiting. The. Education. System with ink with. Incomplete. Reading, and writing skills, that's. Still happening and. We are we, think oh that's a statistic, you know it's ten percent who cares you know 10 percent but 10 percent of the people a lot of people that, we're not giving opportunities. To develop themselves further so. That's something you should be really upset about with, but why is nobody upset, about this you know and actually it's something you can solve we got people in the system we're completely, over organized country so when. You're born you are you are registered, you get. Someone. Who supports you you have to be if you have these are you call these offices you it's. Too long ago for me but, yeah. Where you will go with your kid. No. Nearly. Come. Till Tata Consultancy, be. A, constant. Nazi Bureau. That's. The first time you go there that's a constant a tubular I say Jesus, what do I do with this child right, but. So, very early on you can see if a kid is building, up a deficiency, in reading and writing you.
Can Do that. But. For you the concern at sea below was when you when it was born right it's. Called the clinic yeah. No, so. As. We can solve yeah good, are. Any final thoughts console, playing that you want to share with this audience when it comes to innovation. Startups. Breaking. Through and making. Netherlands the icon of digital transformation. Yes. What surprised me it's it's, all about it. Is all about decisions, it's, all about decisions, you and I take in our daily lives and, you. Know you talk to politicians and, this is a whole group of actually, just a sum of many many people and we're, all keeping each other in kind of locked into little, commissions, and then there's a little association, and another association, that we do Coupole Orkneys askew on top and everybody's doing a lot of spending a lot of time talking to each other but we never ask the question of who we're doing this for so, for instance I'm working for for. Startups you know my primary. Objective is to get an entrepreneur, to, give him a much, much better, opportunity, to grow and scale the company that. Should be my objectives, and. If the government set up to fund you know and then provide, so many conditions. So, that it gets very difficult for. For. A start-up to actually access the funds it's it's all understandable. From a from the government's, logic but why are we doing this we're doing it before, the entrepreneur and. Same. In schools why we're doing is we're not doing it for the teachers we're not doing it for the pair we're doing it for that kid. And. I, think we should, think, more like that why. Why are we doing this and once, then it becomes very clear you know it means that you there's a lot of stuff we shouldn't be doing anymore should. Focus on only a few things and and. And give people the space to develop themselves and. And. It's. It's not that difficult this. Is what what I find is nice about my job it's it's it's actually not that difficult but. You. Just got to do it right just, gonna do it thanks. Very much for sharing your perspectives, please give, run with us pencil, back thank. You very much thank, you. So. That was inspirational I hope and. I, hope the entire day brought some. Really good value to you I hope. You have enjoyed the, day so far and, thank. You again for joining us today I truly. Believe that there is no better time to start. Or. Continue if, you will our, transformation. Your transformation. And. And. And we would love to partner and be your trusted partner to. Help you do. Things differently and you. Can be assured that we are highly committed to, help you do, things differently to achieve. More, so. Please join us for our reception. Later. On looking, forward seeing you there and to continue. Our conversation moving, forward thank you very much thank, you.