Matt Lyons '86 Engineering Meets Business Presentation
So thank. You Dean Dahlberg and I. Appreciate. Being asked to come here as a, person. Who came. To Syracuse, just, like any one of you I imagine didn't. Really know what I wanted to do didn't, know where I wanted to go and. Really. Came here to see basketball, but. I. Was, lucky enough to get. Into the engineering degree curriculum. Here and graduated. With a mechanical engineering degree. One, of the things that I got, asked about five months, ago if I could be here, today and just like when I was here as a student I waited. Until the last minute to put, my presentation. Together so I was cramming for it to get it done so I hope, it's okay for everybody it's pretty. Much my opinions, of somebody who's gone. Through 30, years with his degree, and the things that I've been very lucky to be able to achieve. One. Of the things I decided, when. I got here was, first to think about 1986. I mean it's. A long time ago I. Was. Looking at world events in 1986. Some. Of the things that I saw was. The. Challenger. Space. Shuttle had, exploded, that was the first. Shuttle. Accident, that had occurred I remember, exactly where, I was I just. Gotten done eating, two slices of pizza at, got Kosmos with my coke that I always got and was. Walking up University. Avenue. When. I heard the news and was. Shocked because it was a horrible day that day. Other, things that happened during that year. Chernobyl. Blew. Up, Chernobyl. Accident in, Russia. Halley's. Comet, went by and I, guess you folks, might get a chance to see it again because it comes back in 2061. I don't know if I'm gonna be around that. Also. You. Know probably something, that hits. A little bit closer to home you know you if, you watch the news or if you watch any, of the economic, indicators. That are out there today. The. Dow Jones. Which you hear on the news old time now which is that roughly I don't know 23 to 24 thousand, in, 1986. It was at a whopping. 1,850. And, a gallon of gas was 89 cents, so. Reason. I thought about that is because a. Lot. Has changed and. For. You. Students. Unlike when I was going to school you. Hear about how. People. Going into the workforce today, they, have to assume they're going to have to change, several. Times in their career, now. I didn't, really think that I was changing, I was kind of doing the same thing but I was changing because I was doing different businesses, and was lucky to be able to do them but, that change is something you have to just accept it's, coming, and it's, going to happen and the things that you talked about today that's world events you, know 30 years from now it's not going to seem like such. A big deal when, you get 30 years from now and the things that you're dealing with that but. One. Of the things that I thought was when. I got tried. To figure out the title of this you. Your engineering degree and where you can go as my. Engineering, degree I just didn't really know what, I was getting myself into, I mean I didn't really appreciate what. I had and. Where, it's taken me it's taking, me all over the world when I never thought I mean I thought I'd just be in central. Massachusetts in, Worcester Mass. And. That's, a great life. But. I can't. Tell you how happy I am that I, was. Able to travel all over the world and it's a lot to do with coming. To Syracuse getting. An engineering degree and putting. It to work so. That. Title, is really to try to say to you and hearing about the world event is talking, about all. The change that you're gonna see and what you can do with it I. Write. Here this is a your. Career, doesn't. Have to be a single path but. What. I found engineering, helped me is that, it taught me how to focus it, taught me how to commit. Myself. Singularly. To, a particular, issue whether it be a problem, whether it be a class whether, it be a career. A, company. Position. You. You're gonna be faced with going a lot of different directions but when you're in that direction you've, got to stick with it and you've got to focus on it because it's each and every one of those moments in your life is all, gonna be about how, well you did that because.
That Leads. To the next fad. And that's. Really important, when you, start to try to build the kind of person you want to be in the industry and in, engineering you're. Given a lot of tools a lot of value a lot of ability, to do things and go places that. A lot of other majors. And curriculums, just frankly, don't allow you to do. When. I think about engineering, you. Know reality, is is it's, everywhere, I mean it's demanded, all over the world you can go anywhere on this planet and you're gonna find places. To apply engineering, you're. Gonna be able to find, it. In all areas, of our economy. Whether. Or not you do big business or whether. You're an entrepreneur and you're starting businesses, engineering. Is applicable as, well it, doesn't apply to wherever, whatever sex you are and you. Know in my opinion it enhances, society's, aspirations. I mean think about the things that have come out of engineering, that have made people dream. And do things they never would have done before simple. Example, being, cell. Phones and smart. Phones the. Kinds of things you can do now that, you, didn't even I didn't even think about that stuff it wasn't even in my realm of thinking, and. That. Type of work, is, the type of work you're in this. Is what you are about to do and you're about to go. Off into the world and do. But. As I. Said. Experience. Is critical. What. You do today. Tomorrow. Your, next job whatever it is it's. Critical. Because, it's going to make you the, person you want to be and the, person you want to promote, because, you got to promote yourself and, in. Engineering, one. Of the things that's critical, for. Yourself is. Making. Sure that when, you go out into the industry you, give yourself, the best chance to succeed and the best chance of success, comes through building, your knowledge and building your knowledge comes through growing.
Your Experience, what's. I write, up here there's a lot of ways that you can build your experience, I mean. I remember on my first job interview because. I coach. The basketball junior. High basketball team, the person that happened to be hiring me thought that that was a good piece. Of experience, for potentially, being a project manager, so. A lot of the things that you do I heard, a lot of great things when I was talking about many, of you today, a lot, of the things that you do in the way of giving back to your community, doing. Other different, types of extra. Effort that you're out there doing that's. All stuff that helps to. Grow your experience, even, though you may not think so even though it may not come in a nice piece of paper or certificate, doing. Those things build, your ability, that you would, not have had otherwise if, you didn't do it. Obviously. The the first, job is always critical I mean, I've had I've interviewed, many. Many engineers, of my time and. I'm. Not gonna lie when I interview, I look right away have, they had a job yet what. Have they done and. Absent. Of a job it's. About what. Type of extra, effort you do what type of community, work that you do what, type of clubs, that you're in what, type of work you do outside, of school and. Of, course the school work that you do but, showing. What you do outside of your, academic. Resume. Is, gigantic. For, that first opportunity. Clearly. If you get internships, that's, important, but. Showing. That, you are someone, that can do and. Is interested, in going to. Multiple, places to apply your effort is huge. For anybody looking for that for job. My. Experience, and one of the things that I was, going to talk about today about how I used, engineering. In talking about my first company. Is. For. My first I guess you could say successful. Company. You. Know before I even went to college before I even came here, I was, growing up in a machine shop so. I sat on lathes, and milling machines. Manufacturing. Different types of medical devices. Dealt. With working, on manual machines CNC machines. And this is back in the early. 80s so, imagine. The machines you have in your shop downstairs. Compared. To. 3540. Years ago they were very different, CNC. Was very different there. Was no such thing as CAD. CAD. Was not around. Everything, was on a drafting, board I actually, grew, up drafting. The machine, drawings you do in your classes I used, to hand draw all that stuff. And. It, had a whole box. Of different. Kinds of tools for drawing so. That. Was, something that I just had, to do because my. Father made me do it but. Aside, from that then I came here got a mechanical engineering degree got. A great opportunity to, work with and I heard his name today as, well. Fred Warner, working. Over at Upstate, Medical Center, on a total. Wrist implant, and that, wrist implant. Was. Used in a simulator, which at the time Syracuse. Was one of the only, universities. That. Had, such a risk simulator, for describing, the kinematics, of the human, wrist so. I was hugely, fortunate. To actually, be involved, in that project and. Was. Ironically. Today. 35, 30, years ago I am. Now actually. And I didn't plan it this way it just kind of worked out this way I'm working, in my current company, on. A total, wrist and that, total wrist, actually. Is being worked, on through. The Hospital for Special Surgery in, Manhattan, which if you know it it's the largest orthopedic, hospital in, the country and, the. Chief. Of upper extremity, at HSS. Worked. With. Dr. Warner years. Ago and have. Papers, on wrist kinematics, years ago and. Now. When I sit here working with him and, our. Intersection, is dr., Warner and Syracuse University, in a wrist it's, sort, of irony that I'm gonna be sitting in front of FDA in about another six, weeks talking. About how to get this product into the US market so. It's. Crazy. This. Stuff you don't know you don't realize where, you're where you're sitting you're you're at the beginning of all that. At. That time when I left Syracuse. I worked at Stryker, and, if any of you are interested in medical, device were at the Phoenix you probably know that name there in Jersey, I worked. There then I left. There to go work for a start-up orthopedic company down in Gainesville Florida called. Exact tech. Then. I came back to the family business as Dean. Dahlberg was saying to work with my brother in the family business manufacturing. And, it, wasn't until after that that I decided to start my own company. Was. Ready to finally. Do something that I was waiting to do and, I failed miserably at, it it, was terrible, and there's. One of those situations where I spent, any, all me, and all the money I had and. It. Didn't fly and. I, had to go back and work the old brother in the, family manufacturing. Business until. A few years later and I said yeah. I want to try this again but I want to do it someplace different want, to do it in the, spine. Of.
Course, After. My experience. And my performance. On the first try I wasn't, getting too much of you, know hip-hip-hooray, but. I actually did. Talk them, into letting me get involved with it again and, began. A company, called Blackstone, Medical which was a spinal implant company, but, the point for telling, you all that it I was 33, by, that time. I had been, at a college already for 10 years over ten years so the, amount of experience. That, was required. The. Amount of knowledge that you're building all during that time is all. Important. For, when you if. You choose to do your own, business or if you choose to go on that next big career change, those. Are the things, that you got to draw on to, make your choice because, that is where you're going to ultimately, end up having an opportunity to decide in a, logical, way what. Is this a good decision or a bad decision is this a low-risk decision, as I've, come to you know live low. Risk versus, high risk you know what's what's a low risk decision, in engineering, you, know we all do risk analysis, you know you're trying to drive the risks down as much as you can, engineering. One of the greatest things I loved about it is it's, all about problem, solving it's, not about solving the problem when, you're moment you see it it's, about solving. The problem because, you break it down break. It down into pieces and, you, solve, each problem each piece of the problem systematically until. You come to an overall solution, so. By. This time I, had had a fair amount of experience, to look at going. Into a new business. After. Having. An engineering degree after, growing, after working at a big company a small company after failing, at a company. Okay. What's, different about this decision versus the last and, it, really was about knowing. Myself. What I could do. So. Blackstone. Was. Founded, in 1996. Orthopedic. Implant company, it, competed. With companies like J&J. Stryker, all, the major, companies, we. Produced, a variety, of different. Implants. By the time it was acquired. It. Was doing close to a hundred and twenty million dollars, about, year ten and. It. Had grown from zero people to two hundred people and. It. Was a great experience it not only. Was. A great. Experience, to be a are some successful. Like that but. It exposed, me and, many. Of the people that were with me to, so many different aspects, of the business and, the things that make us what, we are today.
Experience. So. That I could then move on to other things and do other things that I wanted to do but. What, Blackstone. And part of this talk here it was to. Me is it, helped shape things. That I thought were important, now, when you think about what. You might do in the future and. You think about how do you make how do you like, I've sat with several of you today and I got to ask a few times how, did you know, you. Know or did you want to start a company or did you always know you wanted to start a company yes I did I did. Always one oh I wanted to start my own company how. Did you know that was the right company, or. How, did you know that was going to be successful, I didn't I had, one that failed I have, others that have failed I've I've, gone on to do three four other companies since then since this company and, this company was, 2006. It wasn't mine anymore so. You. You, do your best you make your choices you, break them down the, problem, and you try to make the right decisions, but, in the end there's, a lot of things that can go wrong or a lot of things that can go right. When. I look at the things that I've always had to do I look, at, some. Of the key things that have helped me make what I think are good decisions, and. One. Of the first things I always learned coming out of school and doing, any new project, is using. What I've learned and the. Simplest form as, I show our lovely, link Hall here is, you. Know drawing, on what, you know. When. I first got my first job out of college and, was, working in orthopedics, and. You're you're it's, the first time you actually now put, in a situation where, everything. You learn in these walls. Now. There's, no students, around there's. No. Professors. Around it's actually you and you've got to deliver something, and. It's. Those moments where, you have to rely on everything, you've learned here, to. Deliver and the. Great thing about that, delivery, is, how. Good it makes you feel when it's right because, it builds your confidence and. Then I only build your confidence and build your credibility and, that is. The very beginning of experience. You. Start to learn what, it is you can do how, to do it and why. It's important. One. Of the things that's. Hugely. Overlooked, many times is we. Get so excited about what we're gonna work on with this project we have this product idea that we have and I saw many of your great product ideas today is. We. Just automatically. Believe, it's gonna be it's going to succeed because it's so great we, love it, the. Only problem is we normally are the ones who love it the most and. Knowing. Your market is critical, for. A success, if. You don't dig, in to the market and understand. What. Are the nuances, of it you. Can't possibly. React. When. Things go wrong with your idea and I, guarantee, you they, will go wrong you. Will be faced with, having to make changes, and decide, how do I deal with this problem, and the, problems, could be as simple as I didn't. Know that the product could couldn't, be, made out of this material now. I've got to make it a different material well is that material, even acceptable. For this particular device. That I've come, up with you, know it might be as something as simple as you know also hey. This. Thing costs far, more than, I ever dreamed it would cost it, would never sell, in the market. I've. Watched and I've told an example, today of a, major. Orthopedic company. Won't. Name names but, you know you. Put band-aids, on your cuts every time that company. That. Company. Spent. Hundreds. Of millions of dollars on, a. Artificial. Disc, implant, and. Took a guess or took a bet on whether or not it would get paid for it when they got it to the US market and what, ended up happening is, is the market the regulatory. Systems. And the insurance systems, did. Not believe, in the data that was given and therefore, or, didn't think it was convincing, enough and the earth board did not give a reimbursement, code that, company, had. Spent over almost, a half a billion dollars, on this product and couldn't. Make couldn't, build for it, couldn't. Build for it put. It in somebody, and couldn't get paid for it because there was no way that our system, would recognize, that device. To. Pay the company, now. Getting paid and dealing, with the FDA or two different things you could get it through FDA FDA. Said. It was perfectly safe but, if you can't get paid for it, because. You've got to deal with that side of your business that's. A big problem so, knowing your market is critical you haven't tried to know as much of the. Challenges, and the nuances of that market because if you don't you're, gonna be faced with problems you never thought were problems. You. Know this is this. Is pretty simple but, I find, that people think. That they do hard work. And. Then. Realize. That what. They thought was hard, work. They. Had more to do. People. Who succeed, my experience, my time, they're.
All. The time working. That. Might I had friend, still. A friend I remember. Used to say to me I. Work. To live I don't, live to work that's. What you say to me I used. To go yeah okay all, right so. He's. Someplace. And. I'm here, talking to all of you and I. Work, very hard, at, what I do I work. A lot I, don't. Have Monday, through Friday I don't. Have seven, days I don't have get, up at 7:00 and work until 5:00 I just. Work, it's. Always in my head I'm always thinking, about work might, sound boring but yes. I do have social, life I, like. Like just a, couple, months going to see Radiohead, with my kids so, look. I just. Love. What I do so I'm, doing it all the time and. I'm sure all of you could say the same thing things, that you love to do it's, not you don't turn it off you don't get up on Tuesday, and say I don't do that on Tuesday it's, you, do it all, the time. So. Hard, work at, achieving, your success, being. In engineering. In particular teaches. Us hard work teaches. Us how to do this and how to not stop. Doing, it not. Be. Daunted. By. Challenges. That. Is. What really sets you apart and it does set you apart in industry, believe me. Be. Uncomfortable. This. Is one of the hardest things that I always had to you. Know accept even myself, because. As I. Say here you know your, knowledge and your experience it. That's I've been talking about that you gotta know you. Got to grow your experience, but. The reality, is that's. There, so that you can put yourself in an uncomfortable position. Because. It's. The unknown, that. You're always trying, to determine, you're always trying to explore, when, you're trying to progress and. One. Of the things that I find has always been, you. Know difficult, is. Putting, myself into, that uncomfortable. Position, putting, myself in, places and, choosing, a, market. Or choosing a product idea or making. A decision. When. Dealing with FDA, that means the difference between yes, or no a product, is going to get cleared you, you, have to put, yourself in those positions. Because. All. You can do when you want to advance is, take. A risk, and. Again, as engineers, it's, all about trying to reduce the risk so. What do we use we use our knowledge use our experience, to, come up with a. The solution, that, allows us to make the decision, that we think has the least chance. To, screw up, lowest. Risk so. Being uncomfortable, and what you do taking those chances that's. Part, of it you have to do that you, have to be willing to take that risk and what, you have to use to, help you get through it is the, knowledge and experience, that you, go through. Meet. The customer. Many. Times. And. The customer, you know you could be working. You. Know in General Motors on. An. Fuel injection. You. Know the, customer, could be the. Next apartment that. Has to deal, with putting. That fuel injector, together, or. In, my, case it's, talking to a surgeon. But. Knowing, who the customer, is and hearing, what it is that they think is, important. About what you do is important. Because, if you don't do that you. Could be making stuff that nobody cares about or making stuff even worse that people care about but they don't care about it the right way and. Knowing. Who your customer, is. Increases. Your chances for success because, you're making what they're telling you they, want and, what. We do is particularly, in product development which, is critical, in engineering. Is making. What the unmet need is asking, for, identifying. What that unmet need is, which. Is generally, understanding. What the customer what the customer is telling you get. You in the position to decide not only what am i making but, I'm making the thing that I'm being asked to make. I. Can't, tell you how many times I've been in the room. Where. The joke is. We. Engineers, we come up with solutions, where there wasn't a problem and. I've. Listened, I've sat in operating, rooms where a doctor looks at me and takes the instrument, out and goes who.
Came. Up with this and. Throw. It across the operating room. Because. It doesn't work, in the space that they're dealing with. Knowing. What your customer, wants knowing, what it is they're expecting, from you that's, important. When, trying. To succeed at being a. Well-rounded. Engineer. Developing. Devices developing. Systems, developing. Companies whatever it might be. Beware. Of success, I. Was. Talking about this a little earlier today with one of the one, of the groups and, what I mean by that is, you. Know we struggle, so. Much to. Succeed. Succeed. Get. And success, is measured in many many ways but. Success. In being, promoted, to another position success. And, your. Product being, successful. In the market, success. That you've moved, on to another company, that you know now you've got a new position whatever, it is, success. Can be somewhat, of a. Problem. In terms of creating, some, level of. Change. And what you think is important, what I've seen in my experience. Is success. Can sometimes, make you think I don't, need to do that anymore because now I've I've. Gotten. Myself to this place and this, doesn't require me a perfect example is I've. Hired people who were great at, what they did and then they got promoted and then. The they, didn't need to do certain things anymore, they. Didn't need to you, know be involved, with certain engineering decisions, I've had engineering, managers, work for me that. When. They got promoted to be the manager. One. Of the other engineers, now needed to find out what were the labeling requirements or, what, were the. Titanium. Anodized requirements. Or what was the heat treatment requirement. For the metallic material, you, know what was the FDA you know the ASTM. Standard, that was required they. Didn't have to know that stuff anymore that's what the other engineers, are for now and as. I say here you know recognize, the difference between, micromanaging. And knowing the subject. Where. You. Don't need to necessarily. When. You move. To that next level, after six or some success. Still. Do everything, but. You need to know everything, it. Never ends it never. Ends. You need to know. Everything. You move up the ladder you, got to know all of them that you just passed there. Is no forgetting them and. I find that many times people don't, do that they. Got past that leather, stare and that's in the past I don't have to worry about anymore, know that. Is that true you. Have to know every, step you pass and, the one before that and the one before that. Because. It's important, for. You to help not only those that are, now, making the decisions, with you but. It's also important, for you because you got to know that things are getting done correctly. I've. Watched things go off the rails because. People. Thought they didn't need to do that in somebody else who didn't really quite have the same experience. Made a decision, that this, time I went to the bad when, it easily, could have gone to the good if people. Were involved so. Always. Know it. Doesn't matter what your level of success is you're. Always still involved, you always are there you always have to be on. 24/7. Don't. Be intimidated yeah. This is kind of whether. You're going out into your job or. In. My, world I'm, a small company person, dealing, with multi-billion.
Dollar Companies. It's. Hard not to be intimidated I mean I walk into hospitals. All day long talk. About the singular, product, I have and they talk about how Johnson, & Johnson, serves us everything, from a band-aid, to a hip implant and you, know you got this one thing that so I'd. Rather just deal with Johnson, & Johnson, you. Have to, be able to show you're. Just as good and why you are, who, you are but. Johnson. & Johnson, it's. Not like they're a bunch of slouches, obviously, you. Got to respect your, competition. You gotta respect, the others that you work with you, got to respect even, other devices, that are out there on, the, market, that, are good. Can't. Discount, them you can't be intimidated by them either but. Be. Better than them you absolutely. Have the opportunity, to be better than that's what we learn here is. How to improve. How to make something that it that's there today is superior, based upon again. Knowledge. And experience. But. Knowing. That when you're out there there's. A lot of other people just like you trying, to do the exact same thing. You're. Not alone in your quest there's. Others doing the exact same thing and. Knowing. That should. Keep you to, that mindset of as I mentioned before always, on, always. On. And. That's. What I find, Engineering has always taught me always, on. Future. Challenges. Are inevitable. So. As I, mentioned I've, I've. Built six. Companies. That. Two of them fail I had. One do okay had, one do great and I'm, currently in one that's doing pretty good too as well and. Being. Able to accept, that that's gonna happen as. Well as the, good you. Have to be. Ready for that and it's. Easy as I'm sure you can imagine for. Somebody like me to say oh you can just quit but. What, I find, is, as I, write here staying power is king. Being. In the game recognizing. That what. You're working. On whether it's a project, whether it's a product whether it's company. It's. All about. Sticking. With it you. Cannot, at. One moment think. Does. Anybody hear me when. When an answer comes easy on a test like this do, you ever just stop and go is that really the right answer. It's. Never it, there's, always that, hesitation. You. Know and that. Aspect, of it is all, about, recognizing. That you. Know. Failure. Or, challenges. They're there they're always there, and, being. Able to power. Through them. Knowing. That you got the tools that you need to power through, them is always. Going. To go a long way in achieving. What you want to achieve. So. This is a quote. Happened. To be I don't know if anybody saw that movie.
Darkest. Hour but I've, read a lot about Winston, Churchill that's why I watched that movie too but, here's a guy who if. You know anything about the man he's. A great, example of somebody. Who did lots. Of great things, lots. Of made a lot of mistakes as, well was. Top of the game in, front of everybody for a period of time and then was cast aside, always. Throughout. His entire career up and down up and down up and down but he's considered, probably one of the most you know accomplished. People in the 20th century but. His his. Quote. Here, I think, is awesome. I love it you. Know I mean success. Is not final that's. Big. That's. Really, big because, it's very easy to go, damn. I did good on that and. You. Stuck your paws. You. Should never don't. Ever think that you. Did good on it go, get the next thing. Pat. Yourself on the back for a minute but. Move. But. Failure as well, not, fatal. It's. Going to happen, don't. Think, that it's not it, is. But. In the end, it's. Really about who's gonna keep going, it's. All about hard work it's all about using, what you've learned and it's, all about continuing, to try to make good. Low-risk, decisions, this. Guy, in my opinion. Constantly. Faced with that hit. The highest of highs has been down at the lowest lows but. Certainly. You, can see in the end in the final analysis, I think most people would say he came up on the upper thigh. So. My. Final statement to you all. You. Know you got to make a lot of decisions in your life and. You've. Selected, a, spot, to be in in engineering, which in my opinion, you're. All in a position of a, lot of opportunities, that can be in front of you you, can all have, an opportunity, to. Be in places based upon engineering. And the engineering curriculum, you're taking now and then engineering, opportunities you're, gonna have in the future that. Will open up new opportunities, for you to even pursue further it's, a great spot to be there's.
Never, A. Low. Demand, for engineers never. There's. Always demand. For engineers, you. May not like sometimes. That. You have to go to some part of the country to go do it I may. Not be able to do it in your backyard necessarily. But, it always, in demand. So. With. That said I appreciate your. Attention hope, I gave, you a little bit of something, to think about as you go forward. Thank, you and, good. Luck to all of you for the rest of the year. So. One. Of the hardest parts about engineering I've been studying engineering for, four years is how do you start an assignment or a problem or even, homework, so, someone who's started many companies which is really impressive where do you start if you have an idea what's step one on the drawing board. You. Know I. In. My world it's all about what's, happening, out there, I, never. Say. You. Know what there's. Not an implant, for you. Know the, third, toe. From the right I don't, think, that I think. About what's, going on out in the world what is everybody, talking about and that's. Where I say oh let, me let me go check out what these people are talking about and the more I dig into what they're talking about I find. Out that they're talking about things that sometimes there's problems, and. A lot of times that's where ideas come, from where. You find out from people in this world, things. That they need, that's. Where ideas, come, from that's where a prod that's where company comes from I didn't. Have any idea I, Blackstone. Medical before. I started that company never. Did a spinal implant in my life, not. A single one but. I I, designed, hip implants, I designed, knee implants, and I. Knew. The space I knew what FDA was about. Everything. I heard about the spine market at that time was, going like this I said. Holy cow, let's. Let's, make spine implants, we can do that we're, doing that we don't do all this other stuff just. Make it's just a different part of the body, she's got to learn the part of the body learn the loads there and we're, off to the races let's do it that's. How I do it, great. Answer thank you. Thank. You um. So, you, start out in mechanical, engineering and then find yourself working in the biotech. Industry do, you have any advice for any, of us that I've started our you, know our degree in one area and kind of wash shipped into another area of focus. You. Know the. You'd. Be surprised. Especially, when you're in a space like engineering. The. Ease, of being able to switch there. Is you, you're in a space, that. Different. Disciplines, within this, space are sought-after. Across. Schools. Across. Industries. Because. In. This, in you know in so many of these industries, today so many different technologies, overlap, now in two industries, in two different disciplines, you. Look at something. Like, orthopedics. And. Right. Now one of the biggest thing in orthopedics, is robotics. And. You. Have software. Engineers. Hardcore. In orthopedics, now designing. Software. For. Robotic. Robots. To do, doing implants, and. Those. Same robots. Are, also delivering, the implants, in such a way that all, of the clinical research that's, being generated, today is now. Being generated, on the. Acetabular. Cup goes in and exactly, at 30 degrees because. It does, exactly. When. I look, at people that are in the, space whether they're bio engineering mechanical. Engineering Electrical, Engineering. They. Have an opportunity. Because. Of engineering. Because. That's a high-demand, space, to. Veer. Off into, other areas, now. Does. An electrical, engineer, walk in and start designing. Hip, implants, now. There's. Some limits, to what I'm saying, but, there's bio engineering and. Biomechanics. Or it is. Electrical. Engineering which is very, much in. Orthopedics. As well in the way of Diagnostics. Do. They can you move into those places yes, you can with relative, ease and I wouldn't I would not say that unless I've seen it happen I've I've, hired people that. Work. In my research, my product development, group some. Of them are mechanical, some, of them are bio some of them are engineering electrical. But, their experience, has helped them to be that way all. Right. We have time for one more question, if there's another question from the audience. No. All. Right if not I'm, going. To thank. Matt please join me in thanking Matt.