KC Chow - Email Marketing - A Stalwart Strategy No Matter The Business

KC Chow - Email Marketing - A Stalwart Strategy No Matter The Business

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the main complaint that that i receive they always complain that the cpm the cost per 1000 impression like the the price the cost to acquire new customers it is getting more and more expensive so with our help actually with email marketing it actually helped them generate that extra cash for them to spend more on ads so that they can bring more new customers you're listening to ecommonics a debutify podcast resource for one-of-a-kind insights into the world of e-commerce and business in the modern age this is joseph i'll be presenting a wealth of industry knowledge from interviews with successful business people and our own state-of-the-art research your time is valuable so let's go [Music] casey chow a man of dedication to his craft stayed up till 3 am his time so we'd be able to chat in the best environment he could offer if that's what he's willing to do for a little old me imagine what he could do for your business okay don't spend too much time on that because you can check out this episode instead casey chow is an advocate for email marketing a format that has withstood a great deal as the internet continues to take shape around it it's a proven method to boost your sales and create a better connection with your customers if you do it right of course enough out of me let's hear from the expert casey ciao it's good to have you here thank you for coming on the show thank you thank you for having me yeah absolutely absolutely so let's make sure that i have a full scope of what you do um you specialize in email marketing uh and i know you also deploy chatbot and sms functionality so let's start with that give us an overview of your agency for people hearing about you for the first time so my name is casey chang and i'm an e-commerce email marketer and i run an e-commerce email marketing agency and we specialize in email marketing and chatbot and sms for complementary service and just generate extra 10 sales on top of the email marketing sales so we are like a almost full back-end marketing agency you said you take uh 10 of the email marketing sales uh you mean commission yeah is that what you mean commission uh not really i mean chatbot and sms can generally generate an extra 10 sales on top of email marketing sales that's what i meant oh okay okay so explain to us then how important email marketing is uh you know what would happen to what happens to a business when they use it versus what happens to a business when they don't yeah so as you might know like facebook ads google s they are getting more and more expensive throughout the years and then e-commerce email marketing is a great way to actually uh generate that extra profit like generally email marketing can uh generate 20 to 30 extra sales for uh e-commerce businesses so also with e-commerce email marketing they can actually build an email list which they can use it as an asset when they want to sell their e-commerce businesses and i understand that uh email automation the way you've described it to me too because we talked about this uh prior to this interview today is that email automation is categorized into different flows so what are uh what are the core flows that uh people can expect to utilize if they were to deploy email marketing so great questions actually when people ask me about it i would recommend them four flows uh the first one will be pre-purchased welcome flows and the second one will be abandoned cutthroat and then the third one will be browse abandonment flow and then the fourth one will be post purchase customer thank you flow so actually with these four flows we actually tackle um four stages of uh buying behaviors okay one thing i i wanted to uh touch on because you mentioned that uh as as time went on uh facebook ads and google ads got more expensive as time went on and so i'd like to hear from your perspective what you were what you were up to as you were seeing this get more expensive were you trying to use google advertising and facebook advertising uh prior to this uh not really that's what i have been seeing when i work with all my clients uh the main complaint that that i received they always complain that the cpm the cost per 1000 impression like the price the cost to acquire new customers it is getting more and more expensive so with our help actually with email marketing actually help them generate that extra cash for them to spend more on ads so that they can bring more new customers also they see there's a saying goes like this so it costs more to acquire new customers but it costs less to sell to existing customers again and again so that's basically how e-commerce no marketing can help them because it's i mean because at that point it's an investment made into our customers and almost perceiving customers as assets uh as well as well obviously we i'm not sure what other word to use i was potentially uh sources of revenue yeah exactly so i want to get a little bit more detail on the uh the different types or aka the campaigns so what are the different email campaigns that you send and how are they sustainable over over a long period of time so with my strategy with our team with our agency we usually combine promo promotion emails and article emails because i see that a lot of e-commerce brands out there they just send promotion emails all the time and their subscribers will just get tired of it and eventually they will just unsubscribe and their lifetime value will be very short so we actually combine like article valuable article emails to actually educate their subscribers and actually engage them encourage them to actually open our emails and then actually their lifetime value will actually be a little bit more longer actually you know uh so i i'll admit the new i'm a customer i spend that money on different things and i would say over the last seven or eight years is when i started i mean i was always using my email address to sign up for things but i would say i started noticing that i would be getting promotional emails and what happened to me and this actually it's interesting that this interview was lined up around the time that this happened but basically i hit a burnout rate because when i when i receive an email i i have certain expectations i think i'm going to be hearing from a friend or uh or a colleague or a client from a freelancer side and so when i when it's emails from different companies even if it's something that i've only bought one product from the idea that i'm now getting 10 emails from them a month it starts to feel like the the value of the email overall is just is not as prolific compared to wanting to hear from somebody that i know and care about so you've touched on it uh briefly you talked about adding articles into it uh but let me hear a little bit more about what you do to make sure that people aren't tired of hearing or tired of receiving emails how do we increase the value of emails to people it really depends on your niche so let's say you are selling some supplements in a health and fitness niche so for for your audience they definitely want to hear more about the workout tips the uh the supplement tips and then maybe more engaging articles for them to open their email so that they will expect more emails like this in the future also another another thing is that you will have to control your email sending frequency so let's say you have to test so let's say for this week you send out one content emails and then another promo emails and see the response and then the response rate are good and then for the next week you will increase to two content emails and then one promo email in a week and then the third week you increase more and then you will see uh the the response rates or the open rates like you will see like if it hits a ceiling so in that case you have to back up back down i mean so that's generally how we see uh where we should back off our frequency and have you ever uh implemented emails where it would allow for there to be a dialogue between the recipient and the sender because i know whenever i get emails from companies i i'm expecting it's almost like a flyer or a catalog like i'm not expecting to be able to to interact with them so is there anything that you can do to boost interactivity yup so with the article emails that i mentioned just now actually some of my majority of my clients they actually got a good response good responses from their customer base so they actu their customers actually respond back and say okay we love this article can you guys tell me more about what this uh product does and then that's how they started the inter interaction between their customer support team and the customer yeah and then it funnels people um probably more likely onto the website where now they're exactly they've reached there and they're consuming more content because a lot of those times a question they might ask might actually be an article that's already on the website that they just haven't spotted yet yeah exactly you have to let them know and overall if they do it if e-commerce businesses do it and the overall customer experience will improve actually so one of the um what i think what is one of the most attractive selling points uh is the idea that these emails are automated and and as you put it in your one of your one of your blog posts is that it's working for the seller while they're asleep so far i've yet to do any work while i'm asleep or i've got to you know have anything while i'm asleep so how much automation is really going on here so i would say when it comes to setting up for uh for e-commerce business actually there will be 50 and 50 50 uh broadcast campaign manual campaign and then 50 like automation flow so for the automation flow it really uh like like you say it is automated so once we set that up it will uh generate sales for them if they drive like enough visitors to their website and it will just do their work so uh but from time to time our team will still actually go in and actually speed test and see how we can make the email templates the sending time better so that it converts more sales for our clients and in terms of scale i'm just picturing you know i'm uh i'm i'm one seller i'm i'm running my own uh white label product how much can can one person realistically handle like if emails are starting to reach i don't know tens of thousands hundreds of thousands uh is there at any point where people should start looking into getting more assistance or uh do you start adding more people onto a project so that they can help manage this okay you mean so do you mean like how what's the man hour behind one account that would be yeah that's a good way of characterizing it yeah so i would say we need at least for each account i assigned one email marketer and one copywriter for that account so that i can focus on that account only and because when it comes to email marketing it is a lot of work so uh writing and then setting up the technical sides the graphics so if one man handle it and the person will easily burn out and we can make mistakes easily so i would suggest like two person for one account one email marketer and then one copywriter for copywriting work and then graphic design as well so uh yeah that's what i suggest okay and so it's because uh people are focusing entirely on one project it's not so alarming if the emails happen to be reaching hundreds of thousands of people and that's and that's kind of the key to scaling is that you really can't handle uh things at a high level as long as you do have people who are specifically focused on that task yeah i mean how many hours of a week are they doing uh i would say at least 40 hours for one account yeah yeah so for for our clients for our clients actually they focus a lot on their front end actually for their facebook ads and then they generally speaking they don't have the time to actually go and learn a new skill when it comes to email marketing so it takes a lot of time to actually learn the email marketing skill so that's that's the point where they want to outsource that and when you're acquiring people for this position what's i'm thinking along the lines of copywriters because i'm imagining myself in my own uh my own skill set copywriting would be something that i could i can see myself doing so what background do you find for copywriters are these people who have gone through say like an english degree in college or is it really just a matter like hey you know what you your writing is good and you can just kind of intuit how uh how people can handle it of course when i hire like a copywriter for my team i will look at their skill first so uh have are they good in copywriting sales copywriting and then are they native speaker as well so when it comes to um us uk clients they want uh writers that can speak to their audience so that's one thing that looks at and then the second thing is the culture do they fit our team culture so if they don't fit our team culture then they will be like a bad apple to our team so that would actually hurt our performance so that's the second most important thing that i look at yeah i mean that that was actually um similarly what brought me on to uh the project here at debutify they wanted somebody with that uh with that western approach to it exactly the tenor of my voice is uh developed of uh years and years uh apologizing people you know in customer service so one of the one thing i want to circle on is so once customers have uh have signed on provided that we're working out how often we should be reason to reaching out to them that's all post acquisition but i want to ask you about the acquisition so what are some of the ways that you've found people are most eager to sign up for emails in the first place so i just now i mentioned about the pre-purchase flows so actually we will sell up like a pop-up in the website that connect to the pre-purchase flow so for the pop-up we actually sell it as an exit intent so those who visit the website and like that they're like a warm audience warm leads and they they still they're still not sure if they want to purchase the item or not and then they will ex they'll they want to exceed the page and that's where the pop-up comes in so there will be for the pop-up view actually provides like an incentive so it could be like a free shipping discount code and then or maybe like free ebook free report on how to utilize the supplements to help you get healthier or something like this so that's we need incentive for them to subscribe otherwise the conversion rate will be very low they won't subscribe there's no reason so i've seen uh exit intent in point effect but it got to a point where i was actually trying to see if i could trigger the the pop-up so this is a very very fine granular point but i i you'd be solving a mystery for me that's eating away at me which is how is exit intent like actually triggered like is it i i hover my mouse over to the x button and it knows that i'm going off screen like how does it actually pull this off actually when it comes to pop-up apps in like shopify they will have this feature where they can detect your mouse when your mouse moves towards to the x on the page and they'll actually show you the pop-up but we actually find that that is quite annoying when they just try to browse it or they just try to navigate the website and it just pop up so we actually do it another way we utilize google analytics to actually find out what's the average time of exit intent of like exit like page exit the time and then we use that time for the pop-up so once once the visitors land on the website and then um it was that it would start counting down right and then once it reached the time and it will show them the pop-up so in this way it will be more effective and more accurate right that makes sense because i mean i always have multiple tabs right i tend to like to either listen to music or listen to radio while i'm browsing so if all i'm trying to do is get to a tab and it says wait don't go i just i wasn't going anywhere yeah true annoying right yeah although you know it seems to remind me somewhat of my own experiences shopping in person where i'm like if i'm walking kind of towards the end of the store and then the sales person yo just to remind you we're doing a 50 off so you know it's it's funny how uh it's it's still very reflective of business and brick and mortar so we're gonna uh uh move a little bit into some some some curiosities that i have on mine obviously it's not uh i i'm not gonna ask you about you know your uh your pants or anything like that but okay um one thing i want to commend you on is that and there's no way people are going to know this unless i unless i say it but it is 3 a.m in the morning for you right now you were you were very gracious to pick that time because it meant that your environment wasn't going to be very noisy so first question quickly is do you stay up late this often which feeds into the larger question which is what is your you know what does your day's work look like and how do you how do you normally manage your time when it comes to agency like us we usually work with like clients around the world so sometimes for some very important meetings that require my attention i will have to say that stay up late because i'm responsible for my clients results so sometimes like for example if my clients they are from canada us so yeah i will have to stay up sometimes but majority of the time my team of email marketing experts they will just like handle it for me so yeah mm-hmm i mean you know we uh we're our company we're we have people all over the world too and so we we we do notice and there's very little that we can do about it but we do notice that you know when a message is sent one person's in bed while another person is up and active and there's like this time there's a there's a delay between being able to give an answer and being able to uh uh to ask the question very true no yeah it's not something that uh i i really like i i thought about too much but it is interesting that you know uh new new technologies new innovations also lead to new challenges but then uh generally speaking on a on a week-to-week basis or over the course of the week uh how uh how like how much are you at work i usually at work uh most of the time so that's what i love doing like i like to learn and read like what's the latest trend in digital marketing and so that i can equip myself and help my clients better so on average i work around at least eight hours and it could up to 14 hours a day depends on my workload and i have flexible working time and that's a good thing about this business but the bad thing is sometimes i might have to stay out late for my clients well uh once again you you have my gratitude for it i want to get a little uh a bit of a history and it's one thing that i like to do with each guest because we're noticing themes of um when people before they got into the ecommerce sector what they were doing before and and the common theme is that i mean nobody was like on the streets or anything but people were definitely looking to find themselves in a better place so i'm curious to know if that is true with you but the general question is what were you up to prior to this line of work and how did it get into it yeah so before i started like my first online business or my online thing i was a college student and then like just like everybody else i want to like make some money online without having to go out and work for some somebody else and uh yeah and then after that i just i have but i had one friend uh he was doing affiliate marketing and then basically he just introduced me to my first email marketing coach and that's how i got started in the online space email marketing and we don't have to delve too much into it because i know i don't i don't want to get too off topic but what were you in college for i study animation as my major but right now i'm doing completely different things okay fair enough yeah actually uh maybe i could talk to you about it about afterwards but um how i got into my uh where i am today was i started doing animation as a kid oh wow yeah so i might ask you a couple questions about that but people aren't here aren't here for that so we'll uh maybe we'll save that for like a patreon exclusive down the line or something so one element to your business that i have a lot of respect for is that you're willing to bow out an arrangement if you don't feel it's the right fit so i'd like to know more about that criteria and was it always this way or was it the result of maybe an experience you had where you learned a valuable lesson from it uh if you have any examples that would be great but obviously we don't want to uh we don't want to take advantage of anybody's privacy so i leave it to your discretion yeah so basically we are very strict with our clients uh the our clients requirements so we we want to make sure they have like-minded mindset as as we are otherwise it wouldn't work in the first place and then they will be they are willing to invest in their business and then they are willing to like almost hands off and let us do our thing if not if they just go in by themselves and just do their own thing without our consent and then you they will just messing up and then like we had one experience where the client just went in and just tweaked something tweaked something without letting us know and then actually the campaign results just mess up and then he that that kind actually blame us on that so that's basically about it i wouldn't want to get too much details but yeah sure sure no that's understandable i always i i feel those questions are important to ask because i think it helps filter through uh people as they're listening in case they're wondering what those might be so it's just a little bit of a characterization i i think it's helpful but i but i definitely understand like it's a matter of trust and yeah somebody goes in and tries to do your job for you well you know hey that's that's i certainly wouldn't uh uh wouldn't yeah it's all about trust exactly yeah so the next thing i want to ask you about is uh competition so the broad theme and again these are things that i'm noticing as i talk to more people is that generally speaking everybody that i've talked to uh contributes to a bigger picture there's people who do website reviews there's people who are known for mentoring there's master drop shippers and and you bring your own contribution to the table as well email marketing is a key element of it but i i i guess i would like to know if you have competition and how you deal with it and how you keep an edge over them yeah true so actually uh we do have a lot of competition when it comes to email marketing agency so we do the same thing which is email marketing but we do it a little bit differently uh each of us like different agencies they have their own uh strategy um they are a little bit different so with us we actually want to like uh we take most amount of the risk and then we actually have like a low risk start-up cost and then we for our clients and then we also charge based on performance so we actually like take commission from the email sales that we generate i've seen that a lot with a lot of uh business models i spoke to uh robin at udroppy and and they and and our and our platform debutify um it's it's such a fair system it really is because it gives people the opportunity to generate the revenue first and then scale up the operation as as they feel necessary yeah true so we want to build that trust first we take the risk and then have let them have the low risk so we would we want to demonstrate them the result that they that they can get and then after that they can decide if they want to pay us flat fee or continue with the commission base because we are very confident in what we do and our strategy that we can generate enough sales for them and also have enough income for our agency so that's basically about it and whether would there be an advantage to going flat rate over going commission both are good both are good so uh but we prefer commission that's how we yeah that's with our pricing structure that's how we differentiate ourselves okay fair enough i noticed a few of your uh uh blog articles are are you do you you do focus on certain experiences in certain industries like you have a few articles on the dental industry one of them was on wellness one of them was on fitness and i noticed the theme there is that they were all within the realm of health and and personal yeah personal health so have you noticed that email marketing uh has excelled in certain areas where maybe it hasn't excelled in others not really so actually email marketing works for all of the industry so for my article sometimes i want to maybe i during that time i had a few requests about how to do how to do email marketing for that niche and then i would write certain articles to fulfill their desire and teach them how to do that sure that makes sense i mean having seen that it was um some of the articles were based off the dental industry that's not just going through learning a lot of the different e-commerce categories it's not something that would have come to mind immediately but i can also understand that receiving an email from a dental office means that there is a lot of information they can convey about developments in tooth health there was this whole wave of information that came out like last year about how tooth health is related to heart disease and you know that's that's just valuable information that i picked up uh just paying attention to these that's true so i've got a personal development question for you one thing i spotted from your instagram page is that uh you're big on motivation uh self-actualization uh confronting one's own fear i'd like to know how you condition your mindset to have this drive and while you're at it specifically like uh what you do uh diet wise and exercise wise and how you maintain your energy levels and and this is really important to me because i want to uh always pick up information about how people stay energized which is huge like what's you don't wanna you don't wanna experience burnout if you can avoid it and i i've dealt with it a couple of times and i definitely don't wanna deal with it again so for me for me to actually stay energized and actually keep my mind refreshed i like to go to the gym so i like to like leave wings and then i like to do that so when it comes to go to when it comes to like lifting weights actually i uh reprogram my mind to actually push for my limits every day every single day and then that actually becomes my habits in every area in my life so when it comes to business when i face some we face some like difficulties i will actually push that forwards and so actually gyms helps a lot and that helps with like mental uh health actually uh because for businesses for agent businesses like us like virtual company beautified um we don't have a lot of chance to actually talk to people face to face like in person i mean so i would say like going to the gym really helps a lot and stay disciplined as well i appreciate that i mean believe me i ask everybody about this it's something that i'm just trying to get more information on all right so we're going to move back into uh engagement for people who are uh uh ready to go so one other thing that i also want to know about is that you have a few partnerships as per your website your partner with shopify clavio opt-in master and postscript so what's your relationship with these like can you describe a little bit about how they integrate into your workflow and you know what people expect to uh how people expect to have them integrated into the work you do actually for that kind of partnership we will have more internal relationship with the internal team in like for example clavio uh we have like a great relationship with the customer success manager and that's like a close relationship and then for any any other like a client's like account problem and we can actually reach out directly to the customer success manager and that problem will actually solve uh quick quicker when compared to reaching out to the customer support so this is more this is the main benefits i would say all right uh next up for you so this is an important one because reputation is everything in the relationship between customers and the and the sellers so what should we be doing to optimize emails to keep a good reputation with uh recipients yep so when it comes to sending reputation in box rate there are a lot of factors that will affect that because yeah like obviously if you don't have good inbox rate even you have like good the best copy the best strategy your email one uh your subscribers won't see that email actually so the first thing i would say is like focus on more text in the email templates and then we actually use like a 20 20 and 80 rules when it comes to email templates we use like 80 text and then 20 image and then that that will further reduce the file size of the email and that will actually help your emails inbox better and not actually go into spam and also the next thing will be the sending frequency and if you send like uh too much like let's say you send you have been sending three emails emails campaign per week and then you suddenly use you you see that your open drop significantly and that's a big sign that you need to reduce your sending frequency so uh that's the big two the top two tips that i give to the audience like how they can optimize their inbox rate and sending reputations mm-hmm uh also one thing i i don't we i was almost going to uh forget to touch on this too but uh i just want to really make sure that we cover the chat bot and sms side of your operation too and i know emailing is as your is your strong suit but how do you integrate sms and how do you integrate chatbot and same thing how do you maintain a good reputation with those as well yeah so when it comes to chatbot and sms we treat both as complementary uh marketing channel on top of the email marketing so email marketing always comes first and email marketing is a call so we actually when we once we establish the email marketing site for our clients we actually look into our existing email marketing strategy and then tailor like the timing the message for chatbot and sms and tailor that for the email marketing sites so it will be congruent throughout all the channels so they are seeing the same kind of uh message uh the brand views across those channels and so when you were saying earlier that you have workers uh specifically on uh the account i would i would imagine that the person that they're dealing with the emails and they're also making sure that chatbot and sms are also set up and so that's all part of their function exactly yeah excellent well i i have to say that this sounds that just sounds good but it sounds important because emailing has been around for a while and and it's and it's interesting that it's it's been established for quite a while and yet there's still a lot of innovation left in the email sector there are still things that we need to uh figure out to keep them optimized especially because kind of like how facebook and and google ads they've saturated emails have also been dealing with saturation too so before we uh we get you to wrap this up and let us know how we can uh how we can engage i would like to hear a little bit about your thoughts on emailing in the future do you think uh do you see any major changes or trends happening in the email space uh when it comes to email marketing it is a lot more stable when compared to a platform like facebook uh google because like uh yeah you as you as you might know like facebook and google chat bots and they change very frequently and then email marketing is still going strong and not it it's still it's still almost the same as the past but just minor changes throughout these years so i would say it's still going strong and email marketing is still it's going to be more in demand in the future as like more and more there will be more and more like e-commerce businesses in the future yes that's that is that is true even for people who are just while running a one-person operation uh that there's so much that they can accomplish by being able to eml out to people i mean it it it goes back to just the importance of scale right i mean we talked to a lot of drop shippers and uh what permits their success is their ability to scale their operations being able to sell lots of product without having to uh acquire a lot of it too so it's interesting i mean email as a format it's it's adapted to to the times without actually changing too much of its own foundation yeah true very insightful so uh for people who are ready to get started with you uh last week i think we've talked about today in a little bow and let listeners know uh what should they do to get in touch with you and what should they have ready to go when they do yep so if they have an established e-commerce business no matter it is drop shipping or rare brands or white label brands they have paid ads running so that's like the least amount of um least amount of requirements that they need to get started with us so i would say if they want to get in touch with me or my team so reach out to casey child.agency and then you will know how to how to reach it and i would also recommend checking the website out too because the blog does have a lot of case studies and examples of uh of a lot of what you put into practice too yeah true so they can actually check out my blog uh from time to time because i write a lot of blog posts on email marketing how they can actually implement the email marketing by themselves and yeah excellent well i thank you for your time uh i know that it is uh the sun is gonna make me coming up any minute there so we'll we'll let you go uh have a good sleep thank you thank you joseph thank you thank you as well casey you might have found this show on many number of platforms apple podcast spotify google play stitcher or right here on debutify whatever the case if you enjoy this content and want to help us thrive please take a few moments to leave a review on apple podcast or wherever you think is best we also want to hear from you so whether you think you'd be a good guest or want to weigh in on anything related to our show you can email podcast debutify.com or connect with us on facebook twitter instagram and tick tock finally this podcast is created by the passionate team at debutify if you're ready to take the plunge into e-commerce or are looking to up your game head over to debutify.com and see how it can change your life and the lives of many through what you do next you

2021-08-10 11:07

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