How to Replace Yourself & Scale Your Consulting Business with David Jenyns
Oh. Hey. Everyone it's Michael's of Persky and today I'm very excited to have David, Jenyns joining, us David welcome. Fantastic. Pleasure to be here so, David, you've been a consultant advisor, you've, provided done-for-you services, to clients in the areas of video production SEO, services, and systems. And processes. You, started your SEO business I believe back in 2008. You tell us how did you get into, that business. Yeah. So my. Business. Just prior, to that I was kind of like the marketing. Guy you, know partnership. Where my, partner and I we created some, courses around trading. The stock market and, I, here in Australia they had some changes in the financial law, around, what, financial advice, you could give and what you couldn't and that. Ended up basically my business had partner, and headed in one direction I, headed in the other direction I'd. Built up the marketing, team so a good number of team members around me and I thought okay well what, are we gonna do now if we've developed these skills and ways. That we do things for ranking it was kind of in. The heyday of search, engine optimization. And I thought well let's just start up a digital agency let's, take what we were applying, in a very competitive space the stock market education space. And then, how, do we apply that through. To small business, and we got some some, really great results in that space and yeah it, ended up being actually a little bit earlier, than I'm you mentioned about. From. Earlier than 2008. I'd, probably, say, because, I've been in that or owned that business, for probably, about 13 14 years, now and I probably, work heavily, in it for about 10 or 11 of, those years before I kind, of stepped out of the operations, right, I think I was going off of your LinkedIn profile, there so I. Don't know if that's right. Over but, somewhere, around there so so. That, makes sense you developed a skill set as you were running this other business around the stock market and trading right, kind, of getting ranked helping. That content to be be, more visible and to comp in the rankings and then. Decided. Okay let's just leverage. Essentially, the skill set that we've developed and create, a new business around it which became Melbourne, SEO services calm. Exactly. And, so how do you then go about getting your first client like you have the skills you have the idea but, how. Do you then actually start to build that business yeah. Firstly, we. Focused, in on just, search engine optimization. And I had a few and sort. Of colleagues, and. People. That I had worked with and people who'd seen my work so, that was a big part of where I got my first few, initial clients, and then I was quite deliberate, in selecting. The domain name and Melbourne. SEO services so, it had the. The. Core keyword, really that I wanted to rank for in there and yes, we had to do a bit of work to get it to rank but we did very quickly both in the local search and organic, search get, some good visibility and we got good lead flow from that way so, it started off with SEO but then you. Know as the online landscape, has developed, to have started. To realise that you know we mean needed to master multiple, different, channels. And you know we broad things like Adwords into the fold running. Some Google. Ads had also done lead generation, for. Us and then once. We started to get a few wins collecting. Case studies and testimonials, that's a big thing very early, as we were starting to build up I focused.
On I was, actually doing, a lot of the work initially, I was working with clients, I had some team members supporting. Me but. I was delivering, the work to make sure we got a really great result, for them collected. The testimonial, on case study looked, for referrals, and then it kind of just, started to grow or grow from there very organically. And there's, been a word-of-mouth bit, of SEO and we, then started to also double down on YouTube. Traffic I'm YouTube's, pre crowded, now but. If you go back so to that ten years ago we were taking. Content. Video. Content, that I'd created from workshops and things like that chopping, them up into little pieces, optimizing. Them and then loading them onto my YouTube channel and a lot of people were discovering, just little snippets little, how, to solve. Problems that they were having and then that would lead them back to our website they'd, want to find out more we'd get them into our funnel we'd, kind of warm, them up over a period of time just through you know autoresponder. Sequences, and sending out valuable, content, and then, occasionally making, offers, for. Them to kind of take NIC's step, and it kind of grew, from there right. So there's a lot that you just shared there I want to kind of go back and unpack, a little bit of that you. Mentioned that you you you, had already a bit of a network people that were familiar with your work at the stock trading business, was. It just a matter like do you just send them emails and you pick up the phone and call them how did you introduce into what, you were you know planning to do or had just started doing with with, a new SEO business yeah. It was just a email so once we kind of started to head in different directions, with, my business, partner and I I just contacted, some of the different colleagues and said hey here's, what I'm working on right now send them an email from, the, new domain name so, they, could then check out the website and have a little bit of a look around I I. Had, had. Some success in that a very, competitive. Space so, it didn't mean also when we started to work with some of these small businesses we were you. Know when we were talking about local, SEO which as again, going back 10 years ago we're still very early days in the local. SEO not overly, competitive you, didn't need to do a huge month amount, to to, rank well for very specific, geographic. Terms you know suburbs, and things like that so that, was a big part of it where I could clearly. Say I could get a very, good, ROI. On their marketing dollar like you give me one dollar and I could turn it into three or four dollars just. By picking. Up some local rankings, and getting, them some quick wins and. How. Do you compare what's working best for you now, to back, then so you, shared some of the YouTube stuff just, the local rankings there's. Been a lot of changes right in the SEO landscape, maybe getting, ranked isn't as easy as it used to be a lot more competition, so when you look at even, the SEO business, that you have today or some, of the other businesses that you've been involved in what's, what's working best right, now that you're seeing yourself or for, clients that you're helping in terms of lead generation, yeah. We. Do a lot of leading. With content, first these days so, and we. Have a particular method, that that, we like that takes quite a few boxes, so oftentimes and we'll, work with a client, or even if it's something that we do where we'll batch, a lot of content creation in one day so we, running little workshops, on.
The Particular, subject. Matter for the client. Recording. All of that content and that almost becomes the seed. Of you. Know the next six. To twelve months worth of content, will take the content will chop it up into little pieces those, will go to YouTube will get optimized, will get, another jump, in but is that when you see, kind. Of like a little workshop is that a live, workshop they're like yeah yeah represents, the clients, you're just capturing, video, audio, at that time you're, creating transcripts, you're using the videos you're using the audios and them into articles yep. Exactly right and then creating, derivative work and we we try and throw quite. A lot of content, and adding, to, the world and then we see what sticks some, pieces of content will rise up although this YouTube, video for some reason has ten, times the amount of views, compared. To these other thirty, videos that we have that were all published at a very similar time. Okay, well let's now double, down on that what can we do to amplify, it what, can we do to repurpose, it maybe we can turn it into a longer, form article, that ends, up appearing, on the blog and so, yeah it's it's a live. Workshop and, sometimes, it's easier for some clients and others depends, on the industry, so for example we did some work with a, cosmetic. Institute, here in Victoria, and they got some of the doctors to sit inside the practices, they invited a few clients along and they talked about some of the considerations you should have before having a procedure and, I worked with a software, company and the, software company. Talked. About you know how to validate. A software, project before you get started and they. Got a couple of guest speakers, in that talked about things like raising, money and, a few, area, topics, like that and what we were able to do is take, the content, chop it up into little pieces and then we started to see what, resonated. Well with that, target, audience to basically drive some of this organic, traffic in and then, we'd, obviously have the website with a lot of call to actions, which would then get them into the funnel so I'm. Thinking, about a lot of concerns who understand, the value of content, and. They're. Writing articles. Maybe their design a startup podcast so, they're putting out videos but. There's a lot of people out there who don't actually see success, from, from their content, there's no, real strategy behind it or it's, hard for them to stay consistent with it or. Even if they are they may not see the return that they like for, for many months or even well, over a year in your, experience, is there something that people can do to accelerate. Their, success, with content. Yep. Look the only way to really excel the right beyond that. Is. To pay like. You pay. For for, exposure, so your content has to be good either, way for it to work because, you you need to content. Is about getting it in front of the audience to, get their attention and, the, content needs to be good enough that it holds their attention. From. There we can build up some trust, once we've got some trust then we can start to you. Know really get them to engage and, redirect, their attention to, the offer or that's consumed, more or whatever it may be so. It starts with having the good content the, next piece after that is yeah if you want to accelerate is is. Paying. To, play effectively, definitely. Facebook, these days you, really you've, got to be boosting, content, for, it to get good exposure, particularly, if we're talking about you, know pages, you can get some okay exposure, still through your personal profile but it's getting very noisy. On there and I'm finding even the same these. Days with, LinkedIn. Initially. LinkedIn. You. Could post a bit of content, and you could get some good exposure and some good reach which you still can. But. Because. It's getting more and more crowded more, videos, are coming on more content, everybody. Saw that as the low-hanging fruit. Now. What we're seeing happening, is you. Need to get the, content, engaged, early. For it to get any real traction so, it's you know emailing out your database, and getting them to comment on it you know and engage, with it from when it first goes live that then kicks. In the LinkedIn, algorithm. And then pushes, it and gets it even further reach probably, the next step beyond, that at some point but LinkedIn's, paid, options, are still it's. Pretty average.
Pay-per-click, Options, in LinkedIn it's very expensive but if they get that right that would be the next thing to look at how do you pay to increase. That, exposure. So. Really. To break that down what I'm hearing you say is like you're first trying to you're, putting different content, out there even, organically. Right without paying you're seeing where where are you getting more engagement, right where are things kind of higher levels of response, and then based on what's working that. Would then be something that would be worthwhile or someone to consider putting, some money towards to. Boost that content, to essentially. Get it in front of more, eyeballs, that are targeted specifically to to ideal clients, yeah. And and for us these days like, we. Used to be able. To focus on one particular strategy. Whereas, now we. Have, to hit things from multiple different angles like, it's very hard for, the content, just in the content, game if. You're gonna try and lead with content. Just. Doing one channel, is not, gonna be enough you've got a LinkedIn. Facebook. Organic. SEO and. You. Need to be emailing your database, you need to think and. Retargeting. You got to squish as much out of it to get the ROI with. With. Content, whereas you didn't use to need to do that that's also why depending, on the size of the business as well and, you. Know we sometimes. Suggest, leading, with paid, strategies. First, because, you can turn it on and you can get some great traffic, depends on the business though and you, know certain businesses, if. It's a service, based business and they're in. A particular, geographic, region, you can sometimes make AdWords, work straight, out of the gate just because you're targeting very specific, areas, and, you. Can also get local, SEO that's another, way. To get some quick wins you kind of have to pick, it based on the, business, what, the competition, level is how, much they're happy to spend to acquire a lead, like, if you're a brand new startup, really all you're doing and, you haven't figured out your numbers when you're creating content you just you're, exchanging. Your. Time for, create that content, to try and get that, awareness. It's not free, because you're exchanging the time if, you're a bit more established and, you don't have to exchange the time but you have to exchange money, for, that attention but. You don't want to be exchanging, money unless you understand, your. Business very well because, you might just spend a whole bunch of cash but. Not, see. The ROI on it or understand, your numbers or understand how much you'd be happy to spend to acquire that, lead yeah I think that's a really important point we see this a lot with, on. Different entrepreneurs or, consultants. Who have this idea of okay I'm gonna invest into ads but. They don't really, they're, not really committed to it and what I mean by that is they'll. They'll, think that they can get a result very quickly just because they're investing money into it but in many cases right it can take several, months to really test. Things get the my earn dough figure out what's working optimize, it and then once you do then it can really take off and you can see great returns but you need to be prepared for it to take a period of time for. Things to get dialed in and for many entrepreneurs, they're. Conservative, or you, know they're looking for quicker wins but, that's a challenge for for, people with with, page so I always say to people like if you're gonna go on the paid route you have to be prepared to make an investment and stick with it for a little bit to get the the actual returns and, so for many people it's not the best place to start because there's, other things they could be doing in with a more direct approach David. I want to ask you though you see you mentioned also that. In, the business at the beginning you were doing pretty much everything yourself. How. Did you make the transition to. Start you. Know adding on team members how did you move yourself. Especially, from, the point of view of you, know clients, they think of David, the, SEO guy he's the expert we're hiring you know him we want him we. Don't want other people doing this what, did that transition look like for you yeah. It was definitely slow. As. I said I was probably trapped in the business for about 10 years I look back now and I think I could have transitioned. Out much quicker than I did with what I know but, at the time and yeah, you just kind of do, little baby steps like you'd start off.
Hiring. The you. Know doing some outsourcing, first, or out-tasking. To pass, off certain jobs, but I was still the touch point for the clients, but I was getting some of the backend work done then. We started to get. More, of a part-time and full-time roles, pop-up where is more an administrative. Type, person, who helped with a lot of the communication. And lining things up then more. Team members kept, on getting. Added. In to solve some of those different, problems and the last the. The most challenging, and kind of addresses, what you were talking about was. Removing. Me from the equation, we did a few key things one we set up an email where it was support, at Melbourne. SEO services comm. And we, started to stop. Using my, email as, that contact, point and I would tell clients as well um if. You want a quick a response, because I am the bottleneck, if you're sending it to me and it, will be delayed and more than likely I'm just gonna forward it on anyway, the, quickest response will, be to go to support, at and. If. They, require, me they will loop me in so. That was a big one kind of started stepping in there and the. Next thing was as well. Even, though I'm still heavily branded on the side in a lot of the videos and things like that I did end up hiring a lady. Melissa who's our CEO, so. She now. Handles, a lot of the operations, and, she. Ends up being the first touch point for when the lead comes, in so, she might, refer some of the higher ones to me or if there's something a, bit more boutique. Or something. A bit more particular but generally, speaking she'll, be the first touch, point and then she's also very good at setting the. Standards. And setting up expectations once. They're on boarded, again, they're going through to the support at for. Their their customer, support and I'm I've now transitioned. To almost like last, line, of defense which, you know I like, for you to, to. Transition, from being like, you know the guy the brand, all that to, now. Actually really, removing, yourself like making. The investment, also to to bring in someone senior, to, essentially run run. The business I mean I'm guessing that was not inexpensive. Right, there was probably, significant. Investments, involve, that but just walk us through like what was the, driver for you to do that and then from. An investment perspective like what did that when, that looked like you had a big investment, to do it was uh you, know just can't you take us through that a little bit um. Definitely. A big step, to, let go the big driver was we. Found out we. Were pregnant with, our first child I, was still doing the 70. Hour 80-hour, workweeks. And I thought I don't want, to be the dad who's always too busy always, working, you, know sure I was at home a lot but, you. Know I was always thinking and doing work in the evenings, on the weekends and things like that so that was the big driver I thought I gotta do, something, different here and that kind of set me on a little bit of a process of this idea of systemization, and, I, had a lot of baggage around, thinking. That I wasn't. Able to systemize, what we were doing because I was the guy and I thought Google kept on updating, its algorithms, so how could I write a system for something that would be, out of date next week and. It I just. Tested, a lot of those assumptions, by going well maybe, I can systemize, what does that look like and, then kind of started on that process, and then the lady that took over I was quite fortunate. In. That she was already involved, in the business and I elevated, her up I think if he went externally. It would be a very, expensive. Position. To recruit, for or, as she, was kind of there and I, just started, to let go of the reins, realized, that um. You. Know we gave. Her a pay, bump, and. Then, I was happy with you know taking a little bit of a pay cut, if, it meant that it wasn't using is because effectively I'd bought back more of my time and and that did happen at the start but then what I found is she was also a good operator, to start to realize things.
Like Hey this particular product, line we should cut because, even though it brings in a good chunk of revenue, it also is a you, know our biggest source of expenses, so we're not really making much profit on this so, then she started to get very particular, with what, it was that we were actually delivering. And, I. Watched. Some. Revenues, dip but, I saw profit start to increase and I started to see the bank and the cash balances all starting, to increase, and we had a longer runway, and we were putting aside, the money for the taxes. And we were pre-planning, for the, end of the year when, you know we shut down for 12 months and we were not - a month sorry um a, few, weeks in. The 12th month and in, December when we'd shut down and making sure that wages were covered over that period of time she started doing a lot of things like that where I just. Started to realize hang, on maybe, I'm not as special as I thought I was. What. Opened your, mind that like how, do you expand, beyond, it I think a lot of people. Have the same, challenge. Where they really feel that the, business is them. That, the client wants them that, someone, else can't do it but you know they're they're. The expert, they're bringing what's unique and that holds them back from, freeing. Themselves from creating more leverage from building even, if it's not a full-time team, you, know bringing in the resources. And delegating, stuff so what. Was it did you read a book did, you you. Know listen, to some podcasts did, you have a conversation with, someone what kind of guy you think like what was it the turning point for you that, got, you to see yeah maybe I'm you. Know maybe I I don't actually need to do all this myself yeah. Definitely. The the. Moment of finding out that we're going to be pregnant was enough to go I need to look and and. Then. Started, to have in my head well, I, can. See other people doing this I know other people have worked built up agencies. That work without them so so it's possible and. Then I, started. To realize. The. In, my eyes the business was broken, if it relied. Solely, on me so. I needed. To re-engineer, the. Products and services, that we were delivering if if, I couldn't deliver them without. Me involved, so, we started rebuilding things things like our. Our SEO starter pack which is kind of like where people get started initially we, were doing these elaborate, very in-depth, SEO. Reports. Fully. Kind of picking up hard everything and. Then now we live started to rely on you. Know SEM, rush and some of those tools and some additional things over the top and. Probably. The audits, prior. To doing that we're. Higher quality. And in. That. It. Was very, custom, very bespoke. But. The difference, between you. Know maybe eighty percent, and a hundred percent the client wasn't noticing, like, meh I've not had any value right, even though it's not held, and customized, there's, still enough value for them and most. Clients aren't ago they're not even implement, on everything you would, offer them anyways right so yeah it's still working out yeah. And I you. Know I started consuming, all of the the. Info, like the reading, the books like scaling up and traction, and, work the system and, the e-myth, and. Trying. To just get my head around and. Understand. What it takes to build a business that isn't dependent on the business owner right, and. Starting. Off with things that I knew that could, very easily be, delegated, the finances. Some. Of the management of the team some. Of the administration. Through to clients. Like and that. Was the other thing systemized, everything. Else except. For the hardest bit if there's, really a roadblock for you that I can't let go of this one thing, well how about you let go of everything else first and then we come back to that one thing later right, and so.
Today. How much time do you spend involve. An SEO business yourself like, let's on a. Weekly basis or monthly basis, I'm. About half a day a week so, kind. Of varies it's, mainly to do with meetings. So I have a meeting with my CEO. And we look at dashboard, numbers and figure out what we're doing I have a meeting with our finance. Lady. When. We do that, that's a weekly thing having a look at cash flow what's, come in and what, sort of forecast at at how next month is looking and we, have a meeting with the marketing, team, as, well just to think about what, are the initiatives, usually. I do that after the finance meeting so that way the. The, financial position in forms the actions that we end up taking and. And. And, yeah, that's kind of like really freed me up and to, build up the sass which used, to be my side. Project. Is now my full-time gig, yeah, so I want to talk about in just a moment before we do how. Would you say your. Your, your take-home pay, as your. Income from the SEO business has changed, now that you've gone from full-time. Like, being in it non-stop right that being your world to, half, a day a week have has it gone down considerably, because. You've now freed up a lot more time has it stay the same as it increased what's, happened. What. I was. The the cess and the. Melbourne. SEO I kind of get paid as, an. Employee, plus, I end up getting profit. Distribution as, well so, I get my, my, pay as an employee has, gone up slightly. Not. A huge amount and, but. I'm I, also get I get paid something some from the SAS and I effectively, still get paid from, some. At the, the. Digital agency, as well so my, net what. Wage I get is has, increased, since melissa has taken over probably. By about I'd. Say about twenty five percent but. Then in addition to that we're now doing, because. I'm the business owner we do quarterly. Profit, distributions. And that's separate, from the wage I always think in terms of the wage as. How. Much would it cost to replace, me or hire someone, to, do, that role and, then as the business, owner the profit distribution which, fluctuates. It'll depend on how, the business, is performing and what time of the year we're up to you. Know oftentimes. Very. Early, in the year after the Christmas break when everything's gone quiet, I tend to get you, know a. Smaller. Payout, then, because we're kind of come through and it depends on what the cash balance looks like whereas sort of that the media one is usually. Bigger because we're kind of right, in the middle of the trading so but. But I didn't use to take profit distributions. So that's a big change. I used to, funnel. Everything, back into the business I would be cooling my bare minimum, wage out, and and, funding the team and reinvesting. And whereas. Now. Yeah. I I. Realized. That you know I need to be rewarded for the work that I'm doing as well like it's easy for the business owner to take, it all on their back and look, after everybody else and make sure everybody else is paid but then they kind of neglect themselves that's pretty common and so. With. Those profit, distributions. What. Do you do with that is that going. Into, buying. You, know boats and, cars are you putting into investments. And real estate or is it just going to family, or is it savings, or what. Are you doing with because that's money that you previously didn't. Have right yep. What's. Yeah matter, a little, bit of family a little bit of savings. So most. Of it sort of we have got some. Properties so sort of paying down debt. On properties, and then you. Know. Doing. Things that I hadn't done for a long time for, that. For. The wife and the family realizing. Hanging on I'm what am I now I'm, 38. This year so. You know just little things around the house nice, get, the deck renovated, and there you go. For. Sure so, let's your your latest venture is system, hub, which. Is an online tool for SOP. Standard operating. Procedures. Why, did you make the ship from a services, business to. A product based business I know that you said. It was kind of like a side project, but. A lot of people just are very focused on their one business and instead, of thing you know launching, something new they just think well how can I just grow what I have. Why. Don't you start that product, business and why the shift yep. Started. It to, solve our own problem, because we were storing. Systems. Processes. SOPs. In Dropbox, and we, were doing at them as Word documents, and it got very clunky, because I was trying to build the systemized.
Business. But it was just. Unorganized. Hard, for people to find things too. Many team members were able to see all of the systems like I wanted team members to only see the systems that were relevant, to their role. I, wanted, to get you know the ability for people to sign and agree and a few things like that so we kind of developed. It initially, for ourselves and then realize, that it could be a product, I always, see service based business and consulting, work it's a great place to get, started work, very closely with your target audience to, learn and understand their problems, and get a deep understanding and. Service. Business though is it's much harder to scale, like, you, know, 10x. 100x a, thousand. X and you. Know imagine trying to do an SEO business where you've got a thousand, times. Your regular, client. Flow the, wheels would fall off almost, immediately whereas. Assess. I found a product based business was much more scalable where. I can bolt in. Additional. Support team members you know what's the difference between a thousand. Members and ten thousand team members we're, probably talking a couple support, staff to handle the tickets because we've kind of built. That and systemized, it so I see it as much more scalable I don't. Foresee. A day where we let go of the digital agency we did sell off part of the digital agency, was a video production company we, systemize that and I actually sold that we exited that that, part of the business but I think, the. Digital agency. Will keep because, it's a way to develop. Our skills I, see marketing, as a core skill, that I'll need regardless of what business and we, end up working in I think it's a great way for me to, prove. That you can build a profitable business that, isn't owner dependent, which, is a great. Case study and I can point to real life examples. And show things, that you can't normally show, but, I'm inside the SAS right, and so that's that's a big part of what we do as well so you had this idea, you. Needed it anyways like internally, right so you started to develop it how. Do you then go about it I think this is really you know beneficial. And valuable for, other, consultants, and people in the community here because, oftentimes. As you said right you you, you see things when you're consulting and you, identify opportunities. That could be served with, a software, product or some kind of tool or whatever it might be so how did you take it from okay, we're using this internally, to, actually. Getting. Clients. Getting you, know customers. Into, that, product how do you actually start, marketable. Landing, you know say Jenny generating, revenue from, that new venture, yeah. So this probably a couple things the good thing that, agency. That we owned was a marketing agency so we've we. Built a website for, it will. You eat your own dog food right that's, right we did some basic.
Search. Engine optimization. For it to target some phrases we knew were relevant and we started to create content, so we created a a podcast. Where, we we, interview. Other. Subject, matter experts, and have them share a system, or a process, they use inside their business, and, then we we turn that episode, into, a, documented. Process so that's just like system, hub comm, forward, slash podcast. And we so. We did SEO we, did podcasts. We did some social staff, do a little bit of LinkedIn staff and. Because it was the side business, for a while there I didn't, feel, the. The time pressure, of this, has got to perform, for me to be, able to put food on the table so for. A period there and, this was in the transition, as I'm working out of the digital agency and effectively. System, hub was robbing, all of, the profits, from. Melbourne. SEO so, all of that profit distribution that I was talking about that I wasn't getting was. Getting funneled, into the development, of this software and getting it off the ground then, it got to a point when I did the transition, with Melissa moving, in Melissa, said, hey Dave you're, robbing. Melbourne, SEO you're. Stunting what it can do because you're taking all of the money and you're moving it over here and she, gave me like a line in the sand and said. At. This point it needs to start paying for itself because. You've been running it as a side business for a few years and then that's kind of when we started, to make the transition I moved over full time we started ramping things up we got it to a point where it could stand on its own two feet and, then Melbourne SEO that's. How it was able to start putting off, profit. Because it wasn't you know all the money wasn't getting funneled into this software project. And we're system hum right now is it is it profitable, is it kind of you, know getting to that break-even point where where's it at right now and it's kind of life lifespan yeah, profitable. Mainly, based on the idea that I can control how much we tip into development. Or not so. Um. The. The biggest expense with any sort of software project, is is how much development, hours like that the product is mature, enough that, it delivers a great result, clients, use it they're repeating, it's all you know it's a software-as-a-service so it's a recurring, billing they're pay monthly or annually, and. We're. Adding new features but. That was the other thing when. Melissa drew the line in the sand and said it has, to stand on its own two feet I used to just plow. All of this money into. Software, development because, software is a. Never-ending. Bucket. It just keeps on consuming. No matter if you want it to suck. Down money, it'll. Suck down as much as you'll give it and you're. Never satisfied with just the, features and products or you, know features that you have right now there's always me new things updates. And. You need to invest in too so so. Now we just we, manage. It with my. Accounts. Lady where we have a look at the profit that's in the business and then, how.
Much That gives me you know for the next sprint, okay you can now invest, in 80, hours a hundred development, hours okay next month we're doing really well you can do 200 development, hours okay this month has been a little bit quieter, that said though I do find SAS, business, it doesn't fluctuate as, much as that as, the. Service based business because they're locking into recurring, revenue the lumpiness really, only occurs. With. Annual. Subscriptions. And sometimes if we do a promotion, for an annual subscription we, get a big spike right. Or if we're running an event or something like that got, it and so most. Of the client, acquisition for. For. System hub has come, from the podcast from SEO, have. Have you ventured. Into any kind of direct sales yet or is that something that you are considering, definitely. Considering. I. Think. The direction we're probably, heading. With we've tested some Facebook. So don't quite, think my, audiences, is there they're a bit more of a sophisticated, busy. Business owner man. I actually think we're. We're gonna have the best win so that have a couple, small wins in this space is more, strategic. Partnerships. So, identifying. The expert. In a particular vertical. Working. With them so we did a work with a. Guy, who teaches, video, production, agencies, how, to be better video production agencies it just so happened because I ran a video production agency. I also had a whole bunch of our systems and processes for, that business, so, I worked, with, this. Gentleman, where he's, talking, to video production agencies. And we developed some, systems processes. And training, that live inside system, hubs specific, for that vertical, so it's easy for him to point people our way because they get extra you, know, tailored. Information, I think that's probably, the direction, I want to head to find the, expert on I'm chatting with at the moment a an. Accountant, a coach, two, accountants, and, I think helping, him develop some systems and processes for those accountants, and then he can basically, say hey you should be look at using system huh but I think that's probably be a better direction. For us and, saying well David I really want to thank you for coming on here I'm, sure there's a lot more that we could dive into but. Where can people go, to to, learn more about you your work like what, you're up to what's what's the best place for them to to. Connect yeah. Look if. You hit a system. Hub comm forward slash podcast, that's, a great way to get started because we're just creating. Systems, and processes and sharing them gets a flavor for what we do and on, that system hub website you'll find Twitter. And, LinkedIn LinkedIn, is another good one and, just probably connect through to, me that way we post, a lot of good content sounds. Good so we're gonna have all that linked up in the show notes David. Again thanks so much for coming on pleasure. Thanks for having us.