Get your goods ready for trading with Europe

Get your goods ready for trading with Europe

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Good afternoon everybody and thank you for joining  us today to talk about EU transition and   thank you to our panel for being here today, to do a great job answering your many questions   that I'm sure you will have for us today. I'm  just going to go through the panel and ask them   to do a brief introduction, after which  we've got a little bit of a starter setup bit of information about B2C sales in Europe  and then we'll kick off with a full Q&A.   So I'll come to you last Nathan if  you're going to be talking about that,   and I'll start with Wendy, if  you could do your introduction.   Hello everyone, I'm Wendy May - I'm a Trading  Standards Officer with Kent County Council and I   specialise in civil law, product safety and food.  And Claire? My name is Claire Robinson, I'm a Kent   County Council Trading Standards Officer, and I work in the Business Advice Services team   and so hopefully we'll be able to  answer some of your questions today.

And Graham? Hello everyone. I'm Graham  Card, I work with the Kent Invicta   Chamber of Commerce. In terms of signposting, for international trade advice and assistance and the Kent and Medway Growth hub have  essentially made retained my services for this EU Transition period from the Kent Invicta Chamber. My contact details are in   the chat under Graham at Kent Invicta Chamber. Thank you and last but not least to Nathan.  Thank you Jill. Hello everybody, my name  is Nathan Martin. I'm the Principal Trading  

Standards Officer for commercial and food  services at Kent Trading Standards. I'm a   member of the Business Advice Services team as are  Wendy and Claire and we specialise in working with   businesses and giving you all the advice that  you need to prevent things becoming a problem. Now as Jill alluded to, I just wanted to  speak briefly about B2C sales that businesses   who are trading directly with consumers  and selling their goods to European consumers   after the 1st of January. The reason being that  it seems to be a bit of a hot button topic at  

the moment we get a lot of questions about it,  so I thought it was worth kicking off with.   Now I want to make a distinction - my  comments mainly relate to food. There is a very,  very large sector of B2C sales of other consumer  goods and not food, and I know that Wendy and   Claire might touch on those a little bit later  so I don't want to say too much. But the issue   is that within those pieces of legislation,  there is a specific provision or guidance that's   already been published, telling businesses  what they need to do for those B2C sales.   Unfortunately that's not the case for food. The EU  has made it very, very clear that where food   is being sold in Europe, they do expect there to  be a business that is responsible for making sure   the information on it - is right, and will correct  any problems that arise with those products and   who are potentially liable if there is a problem.  That's in the legislation itself, it says that if  

a business is from a third country there needs to  be an a responsible business established in the EU   that has to take responsibility for it. So that's  actually quite simple to understand at least.   But when the goods are going directly to  consumers that eventuality has not been covered,  within the legislation itself and we haven't got  government guidance that specifically discusses   this issue of food being sold directly to European  consumers. So in this situation, Trading Standards   is trying to do the best that it can to look  at the information that's out there and advise   businesses and at the moment it's clear that  the EU do want there to be somebody responsible   and at the moment it looks like the only way that  we can get around this, is to advise people to have an authorised representative in the EU who  becomes responsible for their products where it's   being sold directly to consumers. Now that mirrors  the advice that the government has published for   manufacturers of other consumer goods. So it  is an established route that the government are   suggesting. Like I say there's no legislation,  there's no specific guidance for food we're  

just doing our best to advise you what you need  to do. So we would advise that food businesses selling their goods directly to European consumers  have an authorised representative in the EU   and it's their name and address details  that appear on those particular products. And like I say, if the situation changes and  DEFRA do provide guidance which contradicts the suggestion that we've made, we'll get back in  touch - we'll put that information out there so   that people are aware of it. But at the moment  that is the best thing that we can suggest. Thank you Nathan. For those that have just joined  the meeting, I think we've had one or two that   have come on since we did the introductions,  just to reiterate that you can ask whatever   questions you like through the chat function,  which you can find by hovering at the bottom   of the screen and then typing your questions,  and we'll be picking those up and putting them   to each of the presenters. So I'm gonna kick  off with the questions that we had sent to us  prior to today's event. Maybe I can start with you  Claire? There's one regarding manufacturing. "Can  

UK engineers continue to self-assess machines that  do not require notified bodies?" Well so if you - yes is the answer to that at the  moment. So if you self-assess now,   you can continue to self-assess your goods,   however it's not clear what requirements that  the EU members may want from the documentation,   for example if you're exporting to France  you they may want the assessment in French or to other European countries - so it  may be that you have to have the language   to where the products going to as a safety  assessment. And it is not clear unfortunately   what the requirements will be in the future.  Currently the UK have aligned the regulations   so sort of lift and shifted them over, so  they're the standards are the same with the   EU at the moment. But as Europe and the UK  make changes, the regulations may diverge   and there could be different requirements in time.  So you would have to at that point check each   country to make sure you're following their their  own requirements. So that's why it can be quite a

tricky situation, but at the moment if you  are self-assessing then you can continue to do so. Thank you Claire, that was great. So  the next question we have is for Graham.  "I'd like to understand the costs involved   per shipment on mandatory  documents required to export, such as health certificates which  we have to obtain. Do we need to apply for pay for  any documentation for each import   shipment?" Well the answer is yes you're going  to have to pay for any document that is raised   on your behalf. Having said that, there may be one  or two exceptions but broadly speaking if you ask   an authorising body to rub a stamp a  document there's going to be a cost involved. The two best examples I can give are  the the Chambers own costings and I   would stress costings will vary dependent  upon the organisation you're dealing with,  but using the Chambers own  tariff, as I understand it's   a customs entry for an export shipment is £25 and  allows up to five product lines in that price,   and then it goes up by however many lines there  are of product. And then import customs entry  

is £55, I believe with the same number of product  lines allowed. And any one of the agencies that   deal with customs entry information such as the  freight forwarders, or your own carrier operator.   There will be a charge - there's a cost for  providing a customs entry, there always has been   for outside of Europe, it's just that now we've  got inside Europe coming into play as well.   In terms of health certificates and certain other  special documentation, I'd need to understand   the products and a bit of information about  the the company concerned, before I could   really comment on specific certificates, but  nevertheless I would expect there to be a cost.

Thank you Graham. And another one  on food manufacturing, for Nathan I   think. "Can I just set up a registered office  address in the EU and put that on my label?"   Jill, no this is something that we've been discussing at length lately.  What the legislation says is that the   the business whose name, address details appear on  your product has to be established in the EU. Now that's not defined in legislation,  but guidance and looking at other pieces   of legislation that use the same language,  tells us that a registered office isn't enough. Likewise, neither are things like a PO Box, a mail forwarding address, a telephone answering   service, anything like that. That won't be enough.  The DEFRA have now weighed in on this and they've  

agreed that the address that appears on your  products, the person that established in the EU   has to be a real person, with a real physical  address who can take responsibility for the goods,   who can sort out problems if they happen, who can  have action taken against them if necessary like   serving notices, all that sort of thing. So no,  a registered office unfortunately is not enough.   Okay thank you Nathan. That's very clear  and I guess following on from that, there is another food manufacturing  question which is "Do I have to fix   any problems before I send the goods or can  I send them and let my customer in the EU   fix it?" There are two parts to this. Firstly the HMRC have made it very, very  clear that if the goods are not ready at   the point of transport, that they will be  refused entry and the EU have echoed that.   We do expect them to be very, very strict from  the 1st January. And the second part is a recent   poll of European businesses that was conducted by  the equivalent authorities within the EU,   shows that the situation is just as  confused with European businesses,   as we are. So first off you  won't be allowed to send it out,  

it will get knocked back if it's not ready  to go. And second the European business is   unlikely to know what they need to  do, to be able to fix it for you. Thank you Nathan. And we have a more  

general question here which  may help a number of people. It's expressed as wanting general label  clarification and requirements for the EU EORI. Maybe Wendy you could pick that up? Yeah there will be some labeling amendments,  depending on what you are doing. If you are   exporting to the EU, you will need to have  an authorised representative. And this is  

someone who you mandate to take responsibility  for your goods. So your label would need to be   amended to include details of your authorised rep,  you would need to put the country of origin on,   and the label would also need to be in the  language of the country you are exporting to.   It is very important and we can't stress this  enough - you have to have an authorised rep in   the EU, and this is someone that takes legal  responsibility for your goods. As they are   taking on liability, it isn't just a question  of saying can you pass these on please, it's   much more complex than that, and you'll more than  likely need a legal contract in place and possibly  to pay for this service. And the authorised rep is there for enforcement purposes, so if  something goes wrong with the product -there needs   to be someone within the EU that has liability  for the goods so it's very, very important.  Thank you for that, and another general  one but a very different area maybe  for Claire? "What are the effects  on explosives and petroleum work   and enforcement?" So for the storage of  explosives and petroleum there's no change   now because this is all pre-existing UK  legislation, so there's no changes there.  

However with the pyrotechnic  articles which is fireworks, they are currently subject to the CE marking  regime, so in the future and not as from January - they'll be now caught by the UKCA mark, so  they need to be re-labelled. Although you   do get a year - there is a year grace period for  products coming in, so for products in England but   not for the EU, so they would need to be ready to  go - completely ready to go to Europe. Brilliant   Thank you for that, and for those  of you who have just joined us,   I've noticed one or two people  have just come onto the call   and just to say we're going through  some pre-submitted questions, but if anybody has got any questions  that they particularly want answered or   that are coming to them during the course of our  conversation, please do use the chat function and   drop them in on the right hand side, and we will  endeavor to get the panel to answer those as well.   So the next one is regarding car parts "We buy  salvage cars from auction, breaking them and   selling the parts to EU members. In turn arrange  their own transport and transport them to the   EU including Poland, Belgium and France.  How do the new rules affect our business?"

Who are you directing that question to? That  was for Wendy I believe? Or? Okay Yeah. The new   rules may affect your business. It will depend  on a number of factors, if you're exporting to   a business in the EU, you will need to have  an authorised rep to take responsibility, as we've previously discussed. It's not so  clear how this would work if the EU business   was taking responsibility for them in the  UK and then they are shipping them back. So   we'd actually need more information about the  business model to be able to fully advise. So  

whoever submitted that question, if they wanted to   add their details into the chat and then we  can contact them further to discuss this. Lovely. Could I just? Yeah just to to say  we're picking up on what Wendy said. For those with their as it were 'shipping hat' on,  what she's referring to is the INCO terms   that apply to the sales, so I think the  key bit was the customers in the EU are   coming to the UK, picking up the items and  transporting themselves, so it's essentially   a sale that's made in the UK where you can't prove  export anyway. So there are two angles there one  

is to clarify what the exact INCO terms are  - that's the international commercial terms for   determining where delivery takes place, where risk  is assumed by the buyer. But the other one is   just as a word of caution, if they are being  exported and you know they're being exported,   it's not good enough to know they're being  exported and do a zero VAT return on those goods,   unless you can prove export. I always qualify  my comments by saying i'm not a VAT specialist,   but I think we can all see the the layman's sense,  in that if you can't prove that the goods have   left the country, then you need to consider that  it probably should be twenty percent VAT on them. Thank you Graham. And the next question  that I've got here is also quite generic,   but perhaps you could you could pick  up on this? It was around basically   what paperwork is needed at the border? Which is a very open question but maybe  you could give them a quick summary? Well they will need to be an export entry,  for export carriage. There will be need to  

be an import entry for import carriage. Perhaps  the key thing to say is that paperwork needs to be   in hand, in place prior to the vehicle attempting  to go to Dover or whichever exit port it's using. It's an export because the vehicle  needs to be able to declare   the goods has arrived for customs purposes, whilst they're on their way to Dover. It's  quite a long-winded answer to that, but that's   broadly speaking what people need to know. So the  carrier who's picking up the goods, whether it's  

a full load or a part load, is going to have a  vested interest in knowing that documentation is  completed and to some extent there's a lot  of merit in making sure that your carrier,   is also your freight forwarder, is also your  customs broker, and doing a complete job for you. I think the other thing to clarify is that for  imports there's a bit more of a grace period. There's there are some things that need to happen   by April and some that need  to be happening by July. So we've got a little bit more leeway if  things aren't quite right for imports,   but for exports from 1st of Jan, it will need to be an export customs  entry, that up until now for European   sales, hasn't needed to be the case. Lovely, thank you Graham.

Could I just add little bit onto that? Because  some documents that Trading Standards would look   out for as well as details of the product,  and the safety assessments on the product, and the labeling as well in the invoice, and  packing list - so we can check the safety of the   item. So there'll be a couple of documents there  that Trading Standards might look at as well. I should probably add, having  focused on the customs entry. Almost everything that moves these days,  is going to need a commercial invoice anyway, if it's going abroad. Even if it's samples of  no commercial value, there would need to be   a commercial invoice stating that the goods are of no commercial value (samples).

Value for customs purposes would need to  be stated so. But the Chamber are pretty good  - and the Chamber of Commerce are pretty good in  terms of their export documentation service   for each country. They can clarify for you  what documentation you need. Brilliant.   And again quite a general question I think is  maybe for Wendy about "How do people go about   obtaining an EU representative?" Well this is  a difficult area, particularly for small SMEs, without previous contacts in Europe.  You can speak to your suppliers,   or your customs agents - they may be  able to provide a contact for you.   Or you can do a Google search.  I've done that and there are

companies that do offer these services, and  this may be a sector that significantly increases in the Transition. However  Trading Standards can't recommend   the specific provider unfortunately. Okay and we've got another motorcycle/ motor  vehicle question here, and I think this one is   for Claire. "I currently sell around 20 reprint  motorcycle spares list to the EU, hosted by Royal   mail. I am not VAT registered. What do I have  to do to continue to sell to EU customers?"

Well the customers and tariffs is not really a  Trading Standards area, but I know that you will   need to submit your customs declarations before  you post, and to pay any tariffs which are   applicable on the goods. And there is a big change  coming that Nathan spoke about earlier in July next year, about the EU wanting there to be a  responsible person or authorised representative   for your goods - even if they're being given  or sent to consumers, so direct to customers, they're still going to need that  authorised rep in the EU. So those are the two ways I can answer that  question. I didn't fully answer that, but

yeah we don't really do custom tariffs.  It's not really a Trading Standard area. Okay I've got, just a another question that's  coming from the chat. So I just want to throw   this one on. I don't know who wants to answer  it but "Do hauliers need an EORI number?" Who wants to take that? Well I'm prepared  to put my hand up and say I don't know. But what I do know is that the hauliers  need a whole bunch of other documentation   with, I mean I was on a webinar  for audios this morning.  I didn't hear anything about eur  - sorry EORI numbers from them, apart from as they related to  the exporter or the importer.  

There was a lot of comment about the hauliers responsibilities if they were carrying  the goods, and so I think you know just   to defer back to what I said at the beginning,  I don't absolutely know but there are a lot of conditions that the hauliers who need to  meet and I have got and I'm prepared to help   out any hauliers. I've got a useful link that I picked up from the webinar I was in this morning, which should be quite happy to  share with anyone who asks for it. Okay so maybe we can drop that into the  chat as well then? Yeah excuse me Jill. I'd   also recommend that the chat call - the HMRC customs helpline apparently they're very,   very good. So I suspect they'd be able to give  them quite a quick answer to that one as well.

I do believe hauliers would need  an EORI number as well. It seems it seems logical that they  would, because there's a economic activity   that's happening but I haven't had  to worry about that question before. Okay we've got another question that's  come in via the chat. From a manufacturer of   LED light fittings, who export to various EU  countries on a business to business basis.  "Does having an authorised person  established in the EU apply to us? Currently if there are any product issues,   the customers will come back  to us to resolve. Does the

authorised rep now need to deal with our  customers directly to resolve the problems?   We would like our customers  to continue to come to us.   We have no one in the EU who  would know as much as we do, so they would be acting as  a middleman effectively?"   Anyone want to put their hand up for that one? I can take that? Yes it will apply to you, and  yes you'll need a an authorised rep in the EU. Your customers can still come back to you,  it the authorised rep is about authorities in the   country being able to deal with problems with the  product. So if there's a problem they need to be  

able to go back to someone within their country.  There's no cross-border reciprocation for that so.   But your consumers can go directly  back to you to resolve any problems, but if there's an issue with an  illegality around the product,   they will need an authorised rep in the country, so yes it will apply.   Thank you, that was a really good clear answer.  So going back to another of our questions here,   how will it impact. This is from a musician  "How will it impact selling our music to the EU?   Mostly it's sold via download  and also CDs via our website, as well as various online stores. Will it  impact on us being able to tour in the EU,

and have EU-based bands at our events?"  That was quite a lot in one question   and Claire can I come to you? Yes I was having  a look at this. This will be quite a tricky one   for me to answer because the honest answer is I  don't know the answer to that question. But there   may be tax implications and copyright issues,  which I can send you some information on. However   if you'd like further detailed advice, I think  this is one where we would need to talk to you directly to have a chat about what you're doing,  what your requirements are and then we can   try and work through it that way, because it's  difficult to explain all of that in one answer. And yeah there may be visa implications  as well for people working in the EU,   so for example for the touring part of it, so you  would need advice on that as well and we can find   out more about that from the .GOV website, so  yeah that's a tricky one. Okay perhaps something  

a little simpler and from the chat, I've now  got another question come in "Are there any   specific rules applying to alcohol exports i.e  beer cans?" I guess that might be for Nathan?   There are specific rules with regards to  legislation in terms of composition and of   labeling. So what you're allowed to put on your  product, what can go in certain spirits, that sort   of thing. But the fact that they've mentioned beer  cans suggested they want something more than that.   There is European legislation on food contact  materials, which covers what specific materials, coatings, dyes, etc. can be used on packaging, and  other food content materials like frying pans,   and all that sort of thing. So there is  legislation that you do need to comply with.  

We have issued UK versions of the legislation,  so the rules themselves remain exactly the same. So the only additional things that you're  going to have to follow are the things   we've discussed previously about having the  name and address of the importer onto there, being labeled in the correct community  language, not labeling the origins the UK, That sort of thing. But yeah if you  already have a line of beer cans that   you produced and you've been complying with  the rules, then the rules are still the same.

Great, thanks Nathan. Moving on to   another different area, we have an  artist who sells paintings, sculptures,   t-shirts, notebooks, etc. currently  via Etsy, as well as their own website. "Will this change how I do business with customers  in the EU?" and I think can it go to Wendy? Yeah there will be some changes, and as we were  discussing EU regulation is coming in July. That   will mean that you will need an authorised rep  in the EU to take responsibility for your goods,   even when you're delivering direct to  customers - which is going to be more complex, and it's going to be difficult to navigate  for some people unfortunately. Potentially   I think the simplest way to achieve this is to  have an authorised rep in an EU member state, that takes all your products and then  they distribute them throughout the EU.   Otherwise if you're individually selling  to consumers in numerous EU countries,   you're going to need to have an authorised rep  in each EU member state. But that's going to take  

some negotiating to get an authorised rep to do  that, and to put a contract in place for them to   do that for you. So that's going to be difficult  - that's not coming in as far as I know until   July though, so there is still time for people  to sort that if. If I could come in as well,  if you're selling through a marketplace such as  Etsy, eBay, Amazon, there is the potential for the   marketplace to be willing to act as an authorised  representative. So I'd suggest that people who  

trade on a marketplace, contact the marketplace  and discuss whether that is an option. Okay, I've got a another one possibly for  you Nate and if you want to take this one?  Unless anybody else wants to  chip in and so from the chat   "What puzzles me about the requirement for reps in  the EU and the EU EORI is this effectively means there will be more onerous and stringent  requirements for exporting to the EU then   there are currently for the rest of the world. I have not understood from the government  websites that we will be required to have a rep,   and FBO in our case, in the EU to  continue to be able to export there.   We will need to have an EU address on the back and my   understanding that this is sufficient?" Okay.  See this comes back to my comments at the very   start about having an authorised rep  for food. As Wendy and Claire said, it's a simple situation for  manufactured goods because   legislation is coming in  that's going to require it.  

At the moment it sort of falls into a sort of  dead zone between legislation and guidance, for the EU, for food sorry. I agree it  does make the requirements very onerous,  but unfortunately that's because we've  left the you know the Free Trade Agreement.  There are barriers towards trading with the  EU now and we do have to comply with them. Now even though there's no legislation that  requires an authorised representative for food, it's clear that there is the intention that the  EU want there to be somebody who is responsible for the food. And we might see  guidance, we might see other  

legislation that makes a requirement.  But what I would say at the moment is checking to see whether an EU name and address on  there, is very, very easy to do -very easy and   quick. So we would expect that to be one  of the checks that get made if your product   is picked out to be examined, and we do expect  quite a large proportion of them to be examined. So if it isn't on there you can expect X  percentage of goods to be refused entry.  So that's not a situation we want any business to  be in, so like I say. If you do other sales  

you know business to business sales  into the EU and you already have an importer who takes  responsibility for your goods,   it may be that they're happy to do that and be an authorised representative for B2C  sales as well. Now I can't imagine they're   going to do that for free, but as you would have  already had to negotiate an agreement with them   for them to take responsibility for the  goods that you're supplying to them,   then it might be something they're  willing to do. Unfortunately   I don't think there is any realistic  way of getting around it costing money, so it is going to be more expensive   to sell goods into the EU. That's  just an unfortunate reality that we've got to get around, but it  might cost more money if the EU are   very strict on it and decide to stop X  percent of your goods going to the EU.   Ultimately we won't know how it's  going to be enforced until the EU   start enforcing it on the 1st January and I  just - I wouldn't recommend not making any   preparations because you're going to be in  a very bad position if come 1st of January, you haven't got the stuff in place and  they decide your stuff's not coming in,   sorry. Okay Nathan, a follow-up from  the light manufacturer, asking if  

we're able to provide a link with  more detailed information on the   requirements to have an authorised rep as the  .GOV website is very vague. I'm assuming that   is the central resource and so the answer  to that is - what information is available? We can have a look and provide a bit more  information on that. I'll do some research and get   some details sent out about that, I'll see what I  can find and see what information I can produce.   Lovely, thank you for that Wendy. Well also,  I was just going to say if we haven't asked   specifically someone's question - if they  wanted to leave their email address in the   chat we can get back to them directly. So if  you needed further advice and please do that.

Thank you Claire, and maybe you could take the  next question - which is from a cosmetics company   "Is it the UK's intention to align with the EU   in regards to cosmetic regulation,  amendments and updates?" Yes - again this is the first question I answered   earlier, a very similar answer  to the self-assessment question.   We don't know at the moment what will  happen in the future with regards to the EU.   We have lifted and shifted the standards  and the legislation at the present time, so at the moment we are aligned with the EU but in  time, either the UK or the EU could make changes   to that legislation and then we may not be  so aligned in the future as to our standards,   so this is something we'll have to wait  and see what happens and adapt accordingly.  

Lovely thank you. And I don't know whether this is similar or  different, but you will understand all of   the all of the words I'm about to read  out I hope Wendy "Is the UKNI required   with UKCA and CE is selling UK  and all Ireland or" sorry. Can- I've done it, I think somebody's gone back  on mute now and I'll read that again. "Is the UKNI required with UKCA and CE is  selling UK and all Ireland   or CE and UKCA mark together sufficient?" Okay this is quite complicated. I will go,  if I get this wrong, anybody step in. But so   essentially the answer is no. The UKNI mark is not  used alongside the UKCA mark. It isn't, so that   isn't going to work that way. So for Ireland you  could use the CE mark or the CE UKNI mark.

So effectively, you can use the CE mark for  goods into Europe and the UKNI mark for goods who have been assessed by a body in the UK  because Northern Ireland are going to   accept that. So you can use CE and UKNI together,  but the UKNI mark wouldn't be used on its own.   So yeah. And then in GB which is just England,  Scotland and Wales - it will be the UKCA mark. But there's a year's grace on that so you  can use the UKCA and CE mark in GB until   January 2022. And then just for the EU  market it would just be the CE mark,

that is complicated if anybody wanted a rundown  of that - we can send an email about that so that it's clearer, I think because  that is complicated that side of it. Lovely, thank you Wendy. We have  another question on food manufacturing "What about finished goods do they need to  be reworked?" Again, two parts to that question. If it's finished goods which are exported, after the 1st January then yes they will need   to be reworked - that they comply with  the EU sort of labeling requirements,  that they're gonna change for the1st January.  If you export them now before the 1st January,  

then no they don't need to comply - sorry, they  only need to comply in the current rules. And   they can be sold through once they're in  the European community, and I know we have   in the past we've advised people to try and use  that sell-through provision to get your goods   into Europe. I don't know how realistic that  is now simply because we're already seeing you know the motorways backing up and Eurotunnel  being booked out and all that sort of thing.

So it's still good advice, but I don't  know how realistic it is at this point. Thank you Nathan. And another change  of direction now to manufacturing of   toys and electricals. ""hat will be the new  rules on toys and electrical goods?" Claire? Claire you're mute.

Sorry I knew that was going to happen at  some point - and so the majority. As I said   before the majority of the EU legislation  has been incorporated into UK law by the   Product Safety and Metrology Act regulations  2019. So the essential safety requirements   remain the same at the present time. The European  harmonized standards which provide a presumption   of conformity are likely to become designated  standards in Great Britain. So the CE marking  

can continue for up to a year for most products,  but we will be going over to the UKCA mark   eventually. But they want you to start doing  that now. So if you use a UK approved body   then you will be able to affix the UKCA  mark for England, Scotland and Wales.   And product safety guidance for toys and  electrical goods has recently been published   and links can be can be provided so  we'll put them in the chat as well. Lovely thank you. And yes just to reiterate for  those who perhaps weren't with us right at the beginning - if you scroll to the  beginning of the chat for today's   message you'll see that we have  placed for some very useful links   about some of these issues that we felt would  come up and also the contact details for all   of the panel are there, so if there's  anything that you need to follow up from any of the answers we've given then, do  feel free to use those contacts and as the panel   have said if there is something that you feel  we've not covered specifically and you would like follow-up then please do let us have  your email and a request in the chat, and we   will follow that up after today. And you can carry  on adding questions into the chat as we go through

Another one on food manufacturing is next   "What language do my goods need  to be labelled in?" Nathan? They'll have to be labeled in the language of the  member state where they're being placed on the market. So being placed on the market  means where they're made available for supply to consumers or other businesses.  That doesn't necessarily mean transiting through   So the example I've used before is finished  goods that are being sold to a German retailer, they land in France but they're not placed  on the market until they're with the retailer   made available to consumers. So then go all  the way through France they don't need to   be labeled in French but they would need to  be labeled in German. Now you can put other   languages on there including English, but you  can't put so many on there that it means the   information you know is jumbled and it's not  clear and accurate enough, that sort of thing. Lovely thank you. Could I  just add something to that?  

Sure. You know it's just a thought that occurs to  me something that people might want to check, I   don't know the answer to this, I'm just posing it  as a further thought on the top of that question - there are quite a few countries in Europe in  fact many, where there's more than one language   and usually in fact there are many languages in  some countries, but usually there's the official  one or two languages. There might be a view that  the courtesy would be to observe the official   languages that are listed for each country, maybe not all of the minor languages but   certainly the official languages, I guess Wales  would be our example over here and perhaps   Scotland where there's Gaelic or there's the  Welsh language to consider on products. 

Probably a courtesy, I don't know. It may be  the rule in Wales now the Trading Standards people   probably tell me that. I can come back on  that one, I couldn't tell you with regards to   specific consumer goods like toys and etc.,  but certainly for food the requirement is that the   label is clear accurate and easy to understand,  so it should be in a community language which is   sort of widely understood within that country. So  for most it's going to be the official language,   but for example in Belgium where I  think they speak three languages so French, Dutch. That's what I had  in mind. Yeah, and I can't remember   is it Flemish? Yes it will  be the Flemish one, yeah.

Now I think because Flemish is only spoken  in a very, very small part of the country -  I don't think you could necessarily  label it in Flemish but I think you   probably could label it in either French or  Dutch because it would be widely understood. But I think ideally you default to the one  which is considered to be the national language. Great thank you. That was  a useful clarification there. I hate to do this to you but another one for  you Nathan, "What's going on with organic?" Yes the organic question - the situation  has been unchanged for over a year now. 

Although we use the same rules to produce organic,  so our rules are exactly the same as the ones in   the EU. The EU haven't recognised  our organic rules as equivalent, so for the time being we can't sell our  organic food in the EU, but to clarify we can sell   the food - you just can't describe it as organic  and that would include any sort of description use the word organic, any description  of organic farming methods,   and use of the EU organic logo. Now we're hoping that that  will be resolved because the UK   has applied for equivalency, but the EU won't even look at  that until we officially become   a third country - well until we  become treated as a third country   on the 1st January and I know  that the organic control bodies, like the Soil Association, they have  also applied for third country - not   five body status which would allow them to  certify the goods organic and to be sent to   the EU. That process is ongoing and  I know that they still have not been   given their answers, so for the time  being you can't describe goods as organic being sold to the EU,   but fingers crossed we really hope  that that will be resolved soon. Lovely and I think this may have been a  question that was covered in an earlier answer, but maybe you could just clarify Wendy it's a  general question on manufacturing about the use of the CE mark after the 1st January.  Yes, businesses are encouraged to be ready for implementation of the new UK regime from the  1st of January, so using the UKCA mark for   goods in GB. However to allow businesses time to  adjust, CE marked goods that meet EU requirements  

and meet UK requirements can continue to be  placed on the GB market until January 2022, where the EU and UK requirements remain the  same. So when the legislation is the same,   they can do that. Currently that is for most things because EU  regulations have been enacted into UK law,   but in future this may change  and the regulations may diverge,   so I think as Claire said earlier -  we don't know what's going to happen   next and things may change, but at the  moment until 2022 you can use both, yes.

Lovely thank you for that. And just going to  ask if anybody else has got any information that they would like to - any further  questions they want to pop into the chat   and here we go. "Apologies if I misheard was the label in  the language of the country, food product   requirement or all products? Is it just a  label on the product or all accompanying   documents, such as instruction leaflets? So is the requirement   around the language on labeling a  food only or is it a more general?" Did you want to cover this  Wendy or drop me to jump in.   I'll let you go Nathan. It needs the product - I  mean there will be specific provisions within   each piece of safety legislation. But what  it boils down to is the product information   needs to be understood by the people  who are going to be using that product. So  

if it's being sold in France, you expect  French consumers that speak French to use it,   then all the instructions etc. have to  be available in French. Okay. Yeah there was a second part of that which "Was is  it just the label or the accompanying   document such as instruction  leaflet?" so i guess that covers.   Yeah. Okay hopefully that  was clear for you Rebecca. All right let's see if there's any  further [questions]. Oh here we go   people are typing. Yep just to  say that that was clear, lovely. Just give everybody a few minutes if  there's anything else that's come to   mind and then I'll do a quick run through the  panel to see if there's anything that they want   to add before we close this meeting. As  I said before the links are in the chat  

and I'll give you the the main Kent  one which is and there are various links there  to a number of useful resources.   So while I wait to see if there's any final  questions coming in, can I go through the   panel see if there's anything that they  feel from their current experience or their current discussions with businesses that   feel they haven't been covered  today that would be useful. Nathan's got his hand up. Yeah I just want  to address something which is a constant thing I hear which I think is just worth repeating.  We still see that a lot of businesses aren't  

preparing, we still keep getting the  same story that we're going to wait,   there's going to be a deal. All of this  preparation is not going to be necessary.   I mean it is slowly starting to trickle into public consciousness,   coming out in the news etc. that  a deal is not going to change a lot and I'll just reiterate  that everything you need to do   for product specific changes all that all the Trading Standards side of things. Even  if we get a deal you are still going to have to do  all of this - so don't wait  until the 1st of January when   not doing it would have cost you money.  Get on and do it now. If we get a deal,   it might change what we plan on tariffs, all  that sort of thing but all of these requirements   you're going to have to do realistically,  they're not going to change. That was it. Anything to add Graham? A similar message really,  I mean the main thing to take on board is that   documentation for export or for  import has always been required   for the other countries - if you like the rest  of the world let's call them that for the moment.

And of course the EU countries have been  the home market. Essentially all that's happened   is the home market apart from England, Scotland,  Ireland or England, Scotland Northern Ireland and   Wales with the caveat that I'll add about Northern  Ireland in a minute, that is is now the shrunken   home market and the 27 EU countries are now  an overseas market. So we're dealing with exports   and with imports and there will - as Nathan  said there are there are things that could still   change such as rates of import duty that sort of  thing, but essentially we have got a situation   where exports will be happening for goods going  to the 27 member countries imports will be happening and it is important to realise  that those customs procedures will need to   be prepared for. The one to watch really  is the Northern Ireland situation because   that kind of is it's literally in the news right  now as we know there were some comments about it   yesterday. I believe there may be some further  ones today, so we don't absolutely know how  

Northern Ireland is going to settle down   at the moment except to say that based upon what we know at the moment Northern  Ireland is a home market destination. But because the product that you're  sending to Northern Ireland could potentially   end up in Southern Ireland, there's a different  customs procedure which is why there's  a different EORI number for Northern Ireland but -  so basically just bear in mind that there will be  customs procedures to consider. Perhaps the good  news is if it's coming from Northern Ireland into   GB unless it's a particularly specialist  subject, sorry a specialist product it's   basically a home sale and doesn't need to be  worried about if it's coming from NI to GB.

Thank you Graham that's useful and  Wendy do you have anything to add? Only really to reiterate what Graham and  Nathan have said about being prepared. It's just really important to be  prepared - I know a lot of businesses   it's a lot to take in, it's a lot to look at  the GOV website -there's a lot of information   and it can be difficult to go through. I struggle with it sometimes but being  prepared looking at the sector specific   requirements for your products and if  you don't know and you can't find the   answers or you just don't want to read it or ask someone in Trading   Standards, even if you've got to pay  somebody to give you the information,   get the information because if you don't get it  right potentially when you go to export it could   cost you money and far more delays than getting it  done now would do. So I would just reiterate about  

being prepared and knowing what is expected  for your business, in your product sector. Lovely thank you, and just to do the full  house Claire do you have anything to add?  Yeah just to reiterate really what the others have  said is that we are here for you so, and we   want to advise businesses and help them, so if  you are stuck if you don't know which way to   turn then, please just give us an email  or call us up and we can try and help you.  Especially with sector specific -  if you've got detailed advice that   you need for your business and please get  into contact with us and we can help you. 

Okay so it's gone into the chat but  it's And just to let everybody know that there  have been two previous events in this series, and the recordings are actually also available by  the website that I mentioned earlier.  The first one was around product safety rules,  and the other one was around specifically   food and drink. So both those recordings  are available for you to watch in your own time, and to take away the Q&A that were asked on  those occasions. I can't see any more questions  

coming into the chat so if there's nothing  further to add, we're just coming up to the   end of the session and so thank you for  your time and attention your questions. Do get in touch with the panel  if there is anything that needs further  clarification. I've just got one more coming  at the last - bear with me a second "do we have   any indication from the wider enforcement field  or government stakeholders what kind of delays   might be experiencing goods arriving into the UK?"  so that's more of an import question Graham maybe? It's a little bit of a  crystal ball question. Really   in terms of the answer, what I  can say is if you consider that   the UK authorities are planning on being  able to stack if necessary, up to 4,000   vehicles at Manston as a last resort, if they've  already got 500 on the A2 between Folkestone and Dover, 1,400 [between]  Junction 10A of the M20,   and 2,000 between Junction  9 and Junction 8 of the M20.

Total of 8,000 vehicles potentially, and  that's just planning for a worst case disaster   scenario. We don't know whether that's going to be  something that comes to pass or not, but that is that is the contingency that the  authorities are planning around. My understanding   is there are similar contingencies on the French  border but I don't have specific detail and it   would be wrong of me to guesstimate what may  be happening over there. But I think it would  

be prudent to plan for some delays, yeah I mean I  would add that. We haven't been given any sort of   time frames to expect disruption or anything  like that, but I believe that Kent County Council   have now published Operation Fennel the details  for Ops Fennel which is our - the KCC's response   to what might be happening 1st of January.  I believe that's a publicly available document which you can which you can look up from the KCC  website - which will give you an idea of the sort of scale of the issue that KCC's preparing for.   We don't know exactly what's going to happen. I  think that's why this creates such uncertainty   because we don't actually know, which is why it's  a worry. It creates anxiety because nobody knows,   so we haven't got that much  information. But coming in.

may be slightly easier because at the moment  we're not doing the same checks as going out. So   it may not be the same situation but as far as  I know, like they said I don't know what their   plans are the other side of the border. Yeah I  mean I think just to reiterate, it's probably   prudent to plan for for some element of  delay and things may become clearer over   the next few few weeks. Could I just add that  logistically speaking now the vehicle that comes   in is probably 99% certain a vehicle that went  out a few days earlier, so if there are delays to   the vehicle going out there could well be delays  to the vehicle coming in for that reason. Although that's a very good point Wendy has made,  we're not getting so strict until halfway   through the year on a lot of things, so  it may be a little bit easier coming in.

Thank you Graham   and just to say to the people who've popped  their emails addresses and asked for further   contact we will be in touch with you after  the meeting. Thank you for doing that. If there are no further questions then I think  I'm going to draw the the meeting to a close by   thanking you for your attention and thanking  our panel for ask answering the questions that have been posted to them this  afternoon and it is a moving situation,   as Graham alleged to - there are talks  going on as we speak so you know this this situation may change, so do keep in touch with  Trading Standards, The Chamber [of Commerce], with   the KCC website where we will endeavor to  keep you updated on all the latest changes   and all of the latest information. In terms of  the traffic management it is published on the   KCC website and again we'll try and get that  link sent out to make sure that you have that available. Does anybody else have  anything to add? If not I'll just   say thank you for your attendance and  hopefully we'll see you at the next event.

2020-12-22 01:45

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