EP:042 How Matt Jones Built The Site Shed by Targeting the Tradie Market
I've got, a confession to make. I need. To get this off my chest. As. A business owner we all make mistakes. I've. Got to confess. Hey. Guys it's, Charlie, from confessions, of a business owner here and today, I'm bringing you another special. Guest episode, from, Matt, Jones of the, trade II web guys and also runs a fantastic, podcast called. The site, shed now, matt has a fantastic, and interesting business, where he's, demographic, in who he works with specifically. Is, mostly, tradies, or I suppose we'll call it service trays, people in general so, Matt thank you for joining me on the show how are you doing very well very well thanks for having, now. I'm thrilled to have you be here I'm like I'm really glad we, got, to put this together because, I. Saw. You were in an event not long ago and you, pulled, me up on the idea of the podcast and you're like I've got a cracker for you like I had a cracker, of a confession for you and I was. Very intriguing. By the way beautiful pooch I. Think. I actually pulled, you up on the fact that I'd recorded a podcast with, you before and you blew me off I think that was what happened we, can get into that story shortly rose that's an important one to tell but very. We. Actually. We're. Going to get into it but I won't I won't pull up on the confession, let's loop back to there so very. Interestingly I, actually did, how long ago was this maybe man it must have been it. Must have been 2016. I reckon. Towards. The end what maybe something around there because I remember I was in bar and Bay and, you were somewhere, but. This was when you're running you're at the digital agency and, I wanted to get we're, gonna talk about Adwords I think it was on the show. I. Think we even recorded the podcasts, we. Did. Yeah. I don't even know why they didn't go live. Well. I look, at a bit from there what's fascinating is, when we recorded, the podcast is like we record an episode and I'm just going to assume it was a fantastic episode of, course it was. But. Interestingly, I was going through a very challenging point. In my own life like I was having some real challenges in my business, and I'm, sure as you have as well just, struggling, to come up from air and fulfill, all the things that I was obligated to, so, through, circumstance. It didn't, end up that we obviously published, that episode or even any other works comes room and, I look back on them I must admit it's like you, don't feel good about when those things happen in your business at, all oh, it. Happens might that's part, of a journey I think absolutely. Yeah. But, I was good to reconnect at our day's event it, was and what a great event that was so shout out to Dave Jennings and the system ology event. I really enjoyed that one I thought there was a lot of really good content the.
Emcee Was pretty ordinary but apart from that it was a spot-on. Just. For reference I was the emcee, on that day yeah. For those of you who don't know you can you tell us a little bit about your business and what you do, yeah. Sure well I'm originally a plumber actually so, I'm. One of those many. Which. I've coined the plumber foreigners so a few. Colleagues and friends that sort. Of started as a plumber, wrote ready and segue into other industries. And it's actually kind of part. Of the messaging, especially through the podcast and what we try and teach, and educate to, you. Know up-and-coming, trades, people or whatever it's not where, you start it's not always where you end up and you. Know you'll be amazed how many doors, going. Into a trade can open, for, you and so as a result you know I started, as a son, as the plumber digging holes and now AM digital agency and the Australia's, leading podcast, for trade business owners and all this kind of stuff so, yeah. We run we have a company, called trading web guys and we do websites and marketing solutions, for trade businesses, or specifically, for trade businesses, and a lot of people say to me are you freakin crazy why the hell would you do that like Chinese are the hardest people to work with and I say no that the best people to work with because, I can speak their language and we've. Niche down really hard without a lot of traction there and it's great fun but we got some really good clients and, we, have a good time with that and and. Then, so through that journey we. Were. Getting heavily involved, in the education, space I was presenting, it the. Department of Education, down in Canberra, and I was speaking at TAFE, New South Wales and all this kind of stuff and I thought man I really like doing this education. Stuff, but I just I feel like I'm so I'm only speaking to the tiny room that I'm in and it's not really you, know reaching, the market it doesn't have the market reach that I would like I thought, clearly. Everyone, else loves that hear the sound of my voice so, why don't I start doing your pocket so, that's what happened I started out the site showed podcast in February of 2016. And. Yeah. It's basically a purely. Purely, a free. Education. Platform, for trade business owners it's a place I can come and get resource information. Community. Network, all, that kind of stuff who are specific, for their business and. It's. Amazing, online community, which, I'm sure you're going to share in the show notes and. It's. Incredible, what we're just growing this amazing community of business owners all around the world and and, there we were so much stuff going on in that group right now which I can't really talk about it to be hush-hush there's some really cool stuff it's kicking off but it's, yeah it's just been an amazing journey and everyone's just roughing on it I think.
It's Very cool and I think you've got a fantastic business, but I think I might be a little bit biased because I'm, actually also a plumber preneur. Yeah. So what. I think you've done really well is your niche though you guys have absolutely dialed. In who, you work with and I think there's a lot of power in that I think yeah. A lot of credit to you on what you've done from there and guys I will make sure I put, a link to the Facebook group, that Matt, is referencing, there any traders, who do come and listen to be sure please check that one out I think there's a wealth of resources. Available to you from that group and. I. Have to say what, better reason is, there to start a podcast than, knowing. That everyone likes the answer you at the sound of your voice like. It. Was funny when I started you probably in the same boat like half about half of my mates were like do to eat joking but the last person I want to listen to on the planet. Is you crapping on in my ear while I'm driving around I get enough her on the weekends but, yeah I had to remind myself that that's. What, my mates may not necessarily be, my target market. You. Can say you, can drop f-bombs you, can go nuts here it's a freedom of speech scenario. Now. I it what I find fascinating and, I think you're probably someone with the perspective, to share a lot on this it's like I often, get the question when people hear that I'm a plumber it's like well that's a big jump to go from doing. You know plumbing or being in the trade to going into a more internet-based, business, and even doing marketing, services, for, you what led to the transition, I was, working, I, wouldn't. Did this standard, you, know when you when you finished a few go travel for a few years around the world and I. Came. Back and, I. Liked, the industry I actually I still like the industry to be honest like I caught, me sir, I quite, me I don't know about you but I quite mister hands on like standing back and looking at something you built side of it like I really used to like that satisfaction. Out absolutely. But um but. Anyway I was still in the industry I knew I didn't necessarily want to be out there digging holes and clearing sewers but, I knew I had more to offer from, a business perspective than, that so I just I took a role the company in Sydney and we were. We. Were reefs, we. Were importing, a technology. Out of Europe and we were selling it throughout Asia Pacific, and so, it was big ticket items it was we're selling it to plumbers but it was you know people would spend a couple. Hundred grand on this setup and um. They'd, cut it I don't know a couple of occasions they come to us and they'd say dude. If I don't start selling this I'm gonna be sleeping in that trailer you just sold me so, I, was, like well man you got to start marker yeah get on your website they've got, a website you.
Need To get a frequent website so, how. Do I do that I said I'll. Just go do one for you so I went off and for a couple these guys go to cut the websites I don't know like Oh could you can you do for me my, mate you automate that was like are you probably from, work do that so then I start doing some more and, after a while I was hating my job by the way I should clarify I was, hating it and I thought you know what screw, it I'm just gonna go and start my own business and I. Don't know if I I feel like you, know sometimes when you. Like. When, I was here in a job I was just always angry, I just did not like the people there I thought everyone was stupid all the processes were backwards, and I was like but you couldn't tell them and then when you start working yourself you realize that well, what you think you know doesn't necessarily apply and, you've got it. But. Regardless, I, quit. My job and I started my business and that's how I ended up where I, am today effectively, so we if we started, doing, websites. Just reply and then that quickly very, quickly we. Outgrew that when we went into all trades and they were just trades, of all sorts so, yeah, it's been it's been an interesting journey a, fantastic. Natural progression it, sounds like yeah, but, I mean I'm sure we're gonna get into it we talk about the confessions I went about it I was completely ignorant and I went about it all backwards. In the wrong way and, you. Know I've had my time again I would certainly do things different but you know it's one of those scenarios you don't know what you don't know it's actually funny because. That. That. Journey that I took has. Kind. Of sculpted. A lot, of the. Resources. And the tools and the education, that I now deliver so you sort of learned through your own mistakes and then now I'm in a position where I can kind of educate people about you, know what they should be doing and how they could be doing things better. Based. Off the mistakes. That I've made myself so I think that's kind of a powerful lesson that other people certainly, shouldn't have to endure one. Of the things I'm finding in running this podcast are listening to a lot of confessions, is the similarities. Between them like how you. Know a lot of cases I'll say in like 95%, of cases is whatever challenge, someone's, come to ends. Up being one of their strengths so, it's like through making the mistake it almost forged, a part, of them that became better yeah. Well I guess, that's a metaphor. For life really isn't it doesn't sort of kill you makes you stronger.
Absolutely. I suppose it's how your handler you know like it is if. You think about it like life is just made up of this series of rejections. And downfalls and lessons to tell you how, you embrace. It and respond to it that really makes the difference so. Quite. Fascinating, is the way I keep telling myself like I don't have to keep going through that look I've done that enough now I've learnt enough lessons, are made enough mistakes but. Inevitably. There's more to come I know, you love the mistakes. This. Makes a perfect segue then mm, the, confession, itself so, what. Is your confession and then let's go into the story of yeah, I effectively. Stole, IP, so. It. Was completely. Ignorant, and it was kind of - it was it was kind of a situation. Where the company the the guy that I worked for I really, respected I still do I think he's just he's one of the best guys that you'll, ever meet I had a few other issues with other, people in the company, well one in particular but won't go into that but um I just feel like when I was in that position I was so like just. Trapped, in like a mediocre, scenario. Where I just really couldn't explore, my talent, and I thought you know what I'm just gonna go and do my own. Thing and I'm gonna come back to him and show him what I've done and impress the pants out of him and get, him supported and all this kind of stuff like completely, ignorantly, like I just I don't know why or after, after, leaving my business and doing some business coaching programs, and, they're, going through all these training courses that kind of stuff I look back on it I think what the hell do you think modes, are so retarded but. Um but in retrospect he was he was fine with it like he didn't really care but effectively, what happened was there, was I mean obviously we were dealing. A lot with, people. That needed these services, and, effectively, reached out of these people, offered. Both might these services, through them but it wasn't my list, it was you know he's effectively, his lessor, a small, segment of I should I should qualify but. Um I mean he by riots, could have absolutely, drilled me I mean it would have been a bit of a waste of time because. If. You're trying to take someone at your core for that for nothing like you, haven't got anything inside this movie was something but effectively. He would have had the right to do that and he didn't so to his credit and I'm, grateful. For that but yeah it was it was just an ignorant situation. Where I suppose. I. Didn't. Really understand, the. Ecosystem. In which I was, endeavouring. In, into, and, I didn't really have any idea, as to the, legal implications or. Any that kind of stuff it was just I want to do this I'm gonna go do it let's do it bang go and you're done and then that, point it's too late so that. Kind of forced, the hand of, like a you. Basically. It's, tight you know you get you either you, got to get out really like it was the kind of those scenarios and always like I already made my mind up at that point obviously sorry, started, my own business but. Yeah. That was sort of the, the step the big step into into my own business basically, so it was a bit of a rough and turbulent, time. Well. It's as, you said you know sometimes we don't know what we don't know and like you, know in hindsight you, may have not thought that taking this IP was necessarily, a bad thing you just thought it was how it was done. The. Greatest move no, it's exactly right and you and then at the time you think well how else would you do it like what do you mean.
And. So I suppose you, know off the back of that now like, we're really and after, learning you, know about this mistake, and what. A what a silly think it was to do, you. Know became. Really conscious of it I thought okay well then how can I stop people from so. Through. Making the same mistakes, and so. We sort of explored, that exploring, these programs, and Ameri, know you're very familiar, with G suite now so we hope a lot of companies set up you. Know G suite for their organizations. To give them protection over, their IP and. People. You know they can store their documents and, their processors, and if people, leave or if they want to remove permissions, for something they have that flexibility, and they have they have that control. So. Just, to clarify that you know how business, owners set up their business or trading specifically, so they can avoid doing. The thing you do. What. A freaking, hypocrite, basically. They. Keep making a rite of passage or, like it yeah. That's. What I mean I know. I mean I know after going through that ordeal that it was like, quite a concerning, issue for, the company as well how. Did this even happen and so. You. Kind of see from both ends and you think oh okay well yeah that was stupid I had no idea what I was doing but I did it and then looking at the area and they're like well that was stupid how come we let him do it so. When, you could put yourself in a position then when you can help other companies for. Going, down that same path that, um that, is a powerful tool and it's been and you can you can sort, of certainly makes it easier to sell with it tell people the scenario so. But you say IP what, are we preferring, to it here was a business, documents, was it systems, like, what type of stuff was just I was just database but like it, was some contacts basically, it, was contacting with it was in a phone and the phone when. You go home and plug it into your computer and they're the charges and it's synced and that was basically it so. There's. No there was no documents, or anything like that but but, with that beside that is stuff that could potentially be I mean I worked there business that didn't have any systems or processes so, stealing, that wasn't gonna be an option anyway, it.
Or Not but I mean now I think there's, such a so many companies have such a big movement towards that so their business which. Is fantastic and, I, know you're a massive advocate, of it yourself, and so, you, know like. That IP is getting more and more valuable, and it's. More and more increasingly. Important, for companies to be able to keep control of it and have have. I suppose you. Know a platform, that can give, them the. Ability to remove, permissions, or you know remove a certain person from seeing a certain document or whatever it may be it's. Very timely, this convention, I mean with. All the news of our. GDP. Are like, right now in, the world like it's a very fascinating place, and this is a very important. Topic is, like number one is like we, won't name the company obviously these, amateur, but, if you're working with a company and that's your, data is that easily stolen like you've got some issues now people right after you, and. I think when we were in a world as well and. By, no means am I like, the expert. On this sort of stuff but you know we're. Living in a world where this you know we've got so many remote teams and, we've got people in offshore and, we've got you, know Bo yd bring-your-own-device. You know policies, at work and all these kind of stuff like, that. That, risk. Is getting greater and greater from a protection, perspective and, you, know it's, you, know it's not like the old days where everything was thought in filing cabinets on a wall and you come in there and you pull the filing cabinet off and if you wanted to steal, that you'd have to go on photocopier, but it's not like that anymore if somebody had access to a file if, somebody's, got, a got an email that's not tied to your domain and you're sharing information with them like it makes it extremely hard to remove, those permissions, and get that information back, in the event that they move on so, yeah. I think it's it's. An interesting space from a security perspective. Well. This kind of lose back to what you were saying earlier this.
Is An opinion obviously I'm not gonna say this is the way but like as a business owner I certainly, believe we all need to be using things like je suis mmm. Like, you know there are things or measures you can take in an online world that can make a difference and. It also feels to me it's. Not such a big deal these days but it's like I never used to back up my computer and. Then there was one time, where. I lost, a computer and there was things all I needed it Jori. After that I backed it up all the time and clouds change that well but, it's like we're almost in the same category where it's like you know you never feel like you need to protect your email yeah, you. Really need to protect your email and it can hurt yeah, exactly right and yeah and that's I mean that's one thing I mean I'm go I go through these constantly, with clients, you know that. Whole I, don't, know. Discussion, around. My computer's busted and I've lost all my emails and I'm like idiot. Like you. Know if he just had this set up on this one program you know like I mean I could lose my computer, tomorrow. And it would make no difference whatsoever in my business because I could just go you know one plug it in and everything, would be back there right, back to where it was you know so. Having. That flexibility. I. Don't. Know about you but one of the reasons I started I, you know wanted to set up an online business was so I had more flexibility, and I wasn't tied to location, like you know as a plumber you're, very you're, very location, dependent, it's, hard to sort. Of you. Know operate your business from somewhere. Else in the world as a plumber when you you actually got to be physically there on the job you know but, the. You. Know so that was part of the appeal for me so I was, already in that mindset okay everything is going to be cloud-based. Everything's, going to be up there so I don't want to have to be dependent on any devices or any one, computer, or office, servers, or.
You Know any of that sort of coverage so yeah. No. I completely agree and I'm much the same I think my burger I was fascinated I've got a new phone, recently and, what blew my mind would you go for I went. For the iPhone, the. Newest one DX yeah actually when it did yeah yeah -. And, I do like it I was there as well but one, of the things that was fascinating was how quick the. Changeover was like, in like 15, minutes I reckon from, like, backing, our ice into, the new ones like this is the, exact same phone yeah. And. I. Think you. Know that's where Apple get yeah with that ecosystem because. Like if you look at the technology it's, pretty much, outdated. When, you compare it to some of these other devices like I was playing with one of those pixel, phones over, they and. I was like wow this is incredible. So. I don't know I don't know refer that if the innovations, there in these days from from our friends over at Apple, but I, mean, I'm the same I'm stucked in the ecosystem, like everything I own is Apple so I'm like oh I'm not gonna buy an Android and why would, I do that like I've got my computer. Into. The much now I, do. Not do watches. The. Irony, is I'm sitting here right now and I've even got my Apple I see that. I. Am, in and look in all honesty they've looked, after me really well like everything I do own Apple, stuff like I can't, argue against, I still think it's worth it yeah no I agree I mean I think their computers, and stuff a great I just feel like you know they went to that stage where they, were so innovative and creative and they were just setting so many pathways and what sort of stuff and they I feel like it put this creeping up and. They're still sort of hanging on of the ecosystem, conversation, that. Was. Like, you know the rebel brand right, the you. Know as they came up it was like you know they would be you. Know the. Outliers, this was this little company, that was a bit rebellious if it underground bit of a knocking up coming you know they had jobs and everything and now they're the juggernaut so they're the mainstream, and it feels like all these other companies are now add the new apples yeah, that's my perspective anyway yeah. That's yeah I mean that's kind of I don't know I I. Just. Feel like as well like we're sort of moving into that space now where there's so much open-source information you, know and especially from technology perspective you know there's so much open sore and they, still sort of hanging on by that you know they're like not we're not open source and our stuff and I can't man it's 2018. Give us your. Absolutely. So. I want. To dive into it from here though because it's, like I mean you've got a wealth of experience, with, working with tradies especially, on marketing, and web stuff from, there so, once it kind of dive into a few questions for your perspective, if that's all right mmm far away so. When you look at the I suppose the trade marketing. Space at the moment what. Do you feel like is, the, I'm.
Gonna Go with this for n different different, perspective what do you think the biggest mistake tradies. Are making when, it comes to web and marketing these days well. It's. Funny you know why we get a lot of people will come to us and they're in that, churn. And burn mentality. Okay so it's. Very much you say your um your, emergency. Service. Plumber your emergency service electrician whatever it is and they're, very much they. More lazily more leads and they're more lazy anymore they stay Rolaids which, is true to a degree however. What they. Neglect. As a byproduct of that mentality, is. Looking. After the customers, they've already got and the. Customers, that are typically, already, qualified, right so these are people that have it's um at, some stage pulled their wallet out and paid with their hard-earned money and so, that person is in a different bracket to a leave, that you're marketing to from a cold perspective, you know and we. Say it all the time you know you get these companies that have got a database of you know 20 odd thousand people and they're, wanting to run AdWords because they need more leads and they've never once even, tried. To engage with, the list I've got so, I think that's the biggest mistake with business owner is the, trade it's, probably not trade business owners either to be fair it's probably business owners period I, will, say I'm back in that right now I think that's the one of the sites one of it we can't definitively but, it's like I will say across the broad that is one of the biggest things there is a very leads. And sales attitude, to like an is low-hanging fruit, everywhere in these databases right, right and it's. It's a mentality thing, as well like there's just so much, like. People. Get so. Caught up in the. Like. The, mindset, of well no I don't want to be nagging, pea I don't to be nagging, my list because I hate getting emails and all this kind of stuff but they they. Tend not to I. Tend. To forget that you don't have to always be trying to sell, to people though if. People have come to you and they're looking for a service, or you know take, if you're a builder for example, and somebody's come to you Clara for a quote for a renovation like. Why, would they not want to see information relevant. To renovations. That's coming from you between the time they speak, to you and the time they do, or don't engage you like if you're proactive in you know educating, them throughout that period then it's, a no it's a no brainer but, you're, gonna be the person they'll pick over somebody is made no effort whatsoever it's not always a price battle, I. Completely. Agree the. Funny, thing is I think we forget is like we all can say we don't like marketing. We don't be my and marketed to it's like it's got to be the vinicky feeling but, I tell you right now like I'm an avid, cyclist, and if you're a recycling, company I want, to see your staff and if it's exactly to buy it exactly. Right and so you know put that put, that on a macro level like you're looking at putting, another level on your house right and you're looking at you know like, you're, talking about a difference, between a four five thousand dollar bike - you, know three hundred thousand dollar home renovation, like there's like, people want information they're, coming to you because you like be the expert given what they want.
And. You would only have to look to the. TV ratings or the shows that are made on TV to, see that people are hungry for that stuff like think of the success of shows like the block. The. Living room are all these ones like clearly there's, people out there that definitely, want that type of information yes. I mean the disconnecting, the bottleneck in a way as well is, taking. The business owner from, the. Dude out on sigh swinging hammers to the guy that's then putting, the marketing hat on and effectively. Trying, to promote the business and educate his customers, because it's kind of two different roles and I. I. Admit, it's not always a comfortable position, you, know for, for. People that haven't done it before to. Step in front of a camera or to start talking about things that you know I mean like it's it's uncomfortable and I don't like doing it but the reality is, if. You're, trying to stand. Out in a room of people that are all jumping up and down and screaming and, you've got to do something different right so. Like. This creative. Ways to go about it and you know being innovative, in the way that you approach those sort of things can, be the definitive point between the customer. Effectively. Choosing you or your competitors. Absolutely. And this is where I think you've probably nailed your unique, advantage, or, how you're doing things differently is you're probably best qualified, to talk about those differences because, you were a tradie I'm. Not sure many people in marketing would understand, how. Different, it. Is in. That place or like as you said it's very difficult. Sorry difficult to go out there and be you know playing with a nail gun or a hammer all day and, then trying to come back and go alright now let's. Do some marketing like it's not that's not the world of being a tradie and, the other thing is well like we put a massive emphasis, on empowerment. Like we. We, don't want to be and we've always had this mindset from the get-go like I didn't want to be one of those companies, and, you see it all the time you know I've got this proprietary. Platform. And you, can come on board as a client of mine and you you know you pay a hundred. Bucks a month or more fat or whatever and if you want any if you want us to change a single word on your website then it's gonna cost you 300, bucks an hour and they. Just got you by the golden handcuffs. But, we never wanted to be that kind of type of business so everything we do now is what. We don't have any contracts, with anything like it's all what they're there because we're off delivering, a good service and if they want the. Everything. We train. Them on how to use everything we teach them everything we know and if, I haven't got the resource to facilitate, that we do it for them like it's it's not like we're trying to hide anything we don't try and lock them into any sort of it's. This is it if you want to do it you do it yourself go for it if you got a marketing team we'll teach them how to do it that's fine but, you, know it's. Having just being able to be there to support in, the instance where they're not because we appreciate as well you. Know that. They're. There their time is probably very likely not. Best. Spent, out there doing that stuff I they should be out there on the tools and building the business and you know sending. Out quotes and chasing quotes and all that kind of stuff so you, know we're. And we appreciate, that so we want to be able to step, in and fill that void if they need it but some companies don't either company have resource so why not let, them do it themselves. Absolutely. I like that um feeling, because. Contracts. Can often create a bad vibe it's like you know those handcuffs, and our ears no one likes feeling that way so. You know what why do we treat our customers how we'd want to be treated and, I don't know I don't know if it's really worth a bit of paper it's written on to be honest these days like if you've got a if you've, got a contract, but, you're not delivering on the service or whatever it is like, why. Would you try and hold people accountable do, that like it's I, just. Don't understand why people buy in this I've been that situation, myself with. A business organization that, you and I will both be very familiar with and, it was the same sort of thing I went through this program and it, wasn't delivery, so I said I'm not doing it and they tried to pull the whole well you're in a contract, a 12-month contract and I was like well you can go screw yourself because you said you know my business and you've done a bloody thing I. Look.
It's Obviously a very fascinating. Topic. I really, do go hmm like, because, in that case from there it's like you know legally, and I'm not I'm not a lawyer and I'm assuming you're not either as if. You fit that in somewhere between being a plumber and many marketing. But. Obviously, in a lot of cases I can't imagine like, the cost of chasing up those contracts, and legal proceedings, probably outweighs the, expense, and then. On the worse side of things is like why do you want to work with people that don't want to work with you exactly right exactly. As. Well you, just, be building like a relationship of resentment, at the end of the day like it's it's, not a very healthy working environment. So. That that's almost like a bank relationship. Then it's like you know how we feel their financial, institution. Well. It's, a very, it's. An interesting field the banks because it's like when you look at that as a business model it's like none of us really, want to do business of them we kind of feel like we have to I'll. Tell you what I'm super excited about that, how about industries, being disrupted, now how. With all of this you. Know Bitcoin, cryptocurrency, all that kind of stuff like like I just, think in the next few years there's gonna be some crazy stuff. Coming out that's gonna really just totally, flip that whole, archaic. Model, on its head for the better of everyone and everyone's. Sweating, on it like I was sorry well so everyone like all obviously all the banks and all the big. Organizations, are so heavily invested in the banks are sweating. On it but it's got to happen I mean it's like the taxi scenario we overcame in the marketplace like that, had to happen as well I thought it was just epistate and so, I think now is people becoming more and more aware and there's a lot of clever people out there and a lot of clever tools and programs these, so. Yeah. I think it's gonna be an interesting space, well. I tell you what one, of the things I love about our world one, of the things I really enjoy is like when we get screwed over continually. A technology. Or a person changes that and I'll describe a few quickly so you mentioned the taxi industry what's a great one I don't, know about you but my do you remember buying CDs, do you remember when like was 33, bucks for, like one, CD, and. I, was like you know Napster, came along it means and it came along a burning CDs came along I was like you know the people somehow always seem to take back their power the, flip side of that though and I think. That that's kind of I. Mean. That was good for us as the consumer, because we could go and steal his, and get it for free but I think when you go back to the bands and the people that have actually spent the hard their, hard-earned money creating, these albums, I think. That, was a big hit, for them like I think a lot of them you know and, they still one of them got rocks why all I'm still wave and put there we're, talking about exclusive made so the day like one of our favorite bands called. - I don't know if you heard am big, fan yeah, but, you can't get their stuff on on, on, iTunes you can't get their stuff on you. Know I think modem no, you can't get it on what, is it Spotify like most, sort of things they just want to sell out to it and they just refuse to sell out to it so, I think, I kind of like yeah you know they try to sort of stick it to the man but then on the flip side of course there's people that I really, want to hear their music I can't get all of it I don't. Know I don't answers so. That's the repercussions, no sir he's the thing if CDs, were ten bucks instead of 30 would, we have ended up down this path. And. If if we look at the taxi industry it's like you know if, I, didn't fall asleep in a taxi one night and a taxi, driver racked up a hundred and fifty two of here while, I was asleep in the cab.
I Have to pay that even though he didn't really take me anywhere would, I be as inclined to use uber, mmm. Yeah, no I don't you saying I think, realistically, like. CDs. Are just an absolute, pain in the ass, and they I remember, from the minute they came out always like these things suck I just get scratched they like they. Have a lifetime you know but. I mean and now that everything is sort of on your on your phone it's brilliant it's like podcasting, right like everything's just available to you like it's right there like, he can't even buy I don't even I haven't seen this CD player in that long I don't even I don't own one I don't even know if somebody sent me a CD I physically, couldn't. Play it I don't know where, but. Without. Computers, don't even have CD drives anymore exactly. I, try to plug it in and it's buggered so I actually. Do not have one and now you look at what, where things are going with like, USBs, now like so now apples phased out USB on their computers, in like I still, don't I still don't agree that I think that's just painful but. Like. It makes you wonder like where it is heading but what's next I think the problem is that where, they face out CDs there were things there to replace it like USPS, and then, they phased out USB, to, replace it. So, I take it you're in dongle life as well like me. Which. Which is an interesting one. Nonetheless but, this is a really, great kind of segue my obviously technology is just changing, the world and. You've, been like at in this business in a time of dramatic change how have you seen this technology affect, the trades. I've. Seen is like a lack of well. Like. A lack, of people wanting to take ownership of their asset and I think they sort of fall back on things they don't control, too often all right that's often as a result of Technology so, for example. You're. A plumber and you've. Got a plumbing business and, instead, of having like, putting. Money into building a website, you. Build a Facebook page and you, think that's going to cut it and we both, know as marketers that won't, cut it because, you don't own control, Facebook, and like, anything could happen to that. And you don't really have any control over and, then people think I've got a Facebook page like surely, gets traffic like you've, got your friends and your parents on there that are liking photos that you stick up every now and then like it's not exactly a marketing machine so.
You. Know taking control of that asset, for business, owners you know with a website you're in a position where you can really you. Can you can put content on it that you own and you can share that content to your Facebook page if you want which drives people back to your website where they can become part of your community and your email database you can build your asset but that's more valuable so, I, think technology. Has. Kind. Of skewed, the, the. Reality, of like, what's, important, to a degree but. I think now it's kind of coming back and people are kind of realizing, okay one day I need to have some control over this. And. There's a lot of program, as you know there's like there's so many apps and programs and, things like that available as well so like. Understanding. What Absolut's, what business, in what scenario, and what you should use I mean, I don't know about you but I've literally been through every CRM, program I think on the face of the earth and. Customer. Relationship, management for the listeners out there and like. I feel like there's always it's. Evolving, so often and so frequently like years like oh my god I'm like wait what where do you Scott like what are you where, do you go okay I'm just gonna stand here and I'm just gonna use this and. If anything comes in I'm just gonna reject. It like I don't know about you but I just I see stuff coming up like, and. I just want to go and explore it and. I've. Literally, got a list of software that I just want to look at and get demo is. Exciting. But. It's a freaking waste of time and I think every you spend enough like our energy. Like, getting good at the one thing we're just selling out to that one program yeah, there'll be other stuff in that might have a new feature I might do something the other one doesn't but in the day like, if it's gonna save you you know two weeks of learning, had a user and getting your team onboarding, them and I saw this year like I just question I just. Questioned whether it's worth. Something. I like to do is like especially when you've got a team he's like I try not to change it too often because it can disrupt work, but I think at least once a year you've, got to sit down and really assess what tools am I using it is the right thing yeah. So. And you and I try, to do most of that like, myself like, like because I know the team go oh this is great let's get one of these, ok. Cool just send it across and have a look at it but you're kind of gonna take, it all with a grain of salt. Absolutely. But one of the ones particular that stood out to me which didn't, exist when I was you know in the trade many many years ago now is, like service, mate like, how easy it is to log jobs and invoice yeah. Annika, there's. So many brilliant job, management programs and. Project. Management for bigger companies like, software though there's so much cool stuff out there and, being. Able to communicate to guys the the value of being able to get paid on site like that is a frickin game-changer, like when we were plumbing it, was always a case of writing, out a carbon copy invoice, living, it with a client, and they're never getting paid or having to chase it up you know fifteen thousand times you.
Don't Need to go through that anymore like, he just basically it's, all in your phone yeah. Yeah are you happy with this yes okay would you like this sign is this what you agreed to yes sign here okay good tt dig here site is you can be card paid done you're out it's just it's so. Because. You just waste so much resource, chasing. Up debts and things like that and it's just totally unnecessary these, days absolutely. I think that's one of the phenomenal, things that's kind of come from this space so, I'm a big fan of what's happen there as well it's brilliant yeah I mean it's it's. Almost like like where, you look at iPads and things like that it's almost like they were designed for trade businesses, really because I just totally like, they've. Given. Most. Business owners like service, based business owners, you bility to you, know don't. Worry about the computer in the office you can just take your iPad and you can take it with you ever you go and it effectively does the same thing and you can achieve everything you need to achieve off it like it's like it was tailored for them, it. Really was and they probably who got the biggest jump anything I think because it became ultra portable as well, and. I was, quite fascinated as, well and, I don't know if this is serving service, made I will say this I'm not down with all the ones, or, software's in this space but, even for a business owner be able to see where all their vehicles are right, any one time I look, at it and go god. We wouldn't have got away with anything when I was, I. Think. I created, a what, the business owners rejoiced, and team. Members were just resented, the out of them because. You. Know well if I want to go and sit, down and have a meat, pie down on the harbor then I'm gonna do it you know business, I was like oh yeah mate what are you doing down at the Harbor. It. All shoots, okay. It, all the balance, is restored. So. I think now obviously. But, where it is handy and I've seen this firsthand like a lot of companies. Can. Use those those. Programs. And that technology, to. Actually. Help their technicians get, to the job. Like. In a better route so say for example they're, looking at you know okay they're here and they've got to get to here and like, some of this technology you'll, say don't. Go this way because it's like, chock-a-block full of traffic go, this way and you'll save 20 minutes and you'll get your own time and that's important, I mean especially if you're in like a big city like you're in Melbourne I'm in Sydney like, this. Morning I mean I don't, commute, thank God but this morning I went to met one of my um one of my team members over, in in the city and it, took me an hour to get from the northern beaches to, the city and that was at 6 a.m. like, it's. Insane, right so i mean, i don't i physically. Could not do the community well i don't know how people do it like it's it's just a nightmare so when, you're doing that all day every day and then you stack on the fact that you've got you, know seven or eight trucks on the road like that becomes, a significant. Loss of time and money so, you know if you can alleviate twenty minutes here and there through some sort of technology. That's. Gold like that's as pays for itself that's. Money saved right there how reserve yeah so. When we look at trainees these days then on the other end of the spectrum what, are the common things you see with those that are having i suppose a lot more success, or really hitting, it out of the park. I. Would. Say typically, like, a processes. To be honest like this like a lot of the guys and, I don't mean like from you, know business, system structure I mean a lot of them do have that in place but but, even.
Just Like it basic, level like the way that they, that. They'll take a take, a job they book a job they send. A technician then, the way they follow that the job and they you know to me like just like little, touch. Points professionalism. Along the way they seem to be the guys have really do quite well with it so, and. And. And, the, people that realize is well that doesn't. Matter what business you're in today you're. Effectively, in the education, space so. You, can fight it all you want but at. The end of the day if you're not the guy out there adding value through whatever that whatever means it is and I can't think of a business that doesn't apply to. It's. Like, you've got to be in that space of being willing to add value and educate, otherwise. You, just look like somebody, who's trying to do the hard sell constantly, so. Absolutely, I completely agree with that statement. So. Yeah I mean I I'd say some. Of the biggest the most successful, companies there they. Invest. In training they listen training their staff they. Invest in invest. In technology, they invest, in. Investing. Their customers, like they want to educate so. They've, just got sort of a different different. Mindset, different approach I suppose, when you like. To. A lot of a lot of the other competition. Out there one. Of the things I find interesting and this is probably more commonly as it's you, would think that when. I see business owners that are constantly, being frugal, so, they're constantly looking at trying not to spend money yeah. It's. Like one of those things it's like I often feel like they're probably not having the success they could on. The reverse kind. Of it like you know the guys I say hitting it out of the park are the ones that really have this kind of like investment, mindset, like everything, it's like they're just, like I'm investing in my team I'm investing, in assets, I'm investing in marketing I'm investing, in training like they're always pushing for, that you know what to invest in, the type of way I think. Um like, one. Of the big, paradigms. And I'm forever grateful for the fact that we've my, businesses, you, know I didn't have the capital to invest in the things I didn't have funding. I didn't have support or backing or any that sort of stuff like a bootstrap, that it's always been bootstrapped, and I think when you build a business like, you. Learn to appreciate. Relatively. Quickly, what's. Worth investing, in and what's, just. Effectively. Going to cost you money and so. Like. For example you. Know and, I say this all the time you'll, see a like. A young, guy come out of TAFE go, start up he's like a business. And. You know and then the first thing he does is go out and buy $70,000, you and you think media. You know like yes, but, I was that guy and you were, probably that guy too right why, you kidding, I'll my. You was only 50 mm. So, there's good in there's good investment and there's good times to spend money on certain things and I think you learn this as you develop as a business owner like I've done a video by car and you're like why the, hell did I buy that car like it is killing, me and why, I should have spend that money on building.
A Website or like, marketing, or you, know something, like teaching me something that could, generate money, that would cover the loan repayments, for a car and, you know I mean like you, know it's. Hard to learn that which is one of the reasons well again while we started, the site shed so where people can come and they can get access to, resources. Some, people and industry. Experts tools. Techniques all that kind of stuff well they can ask these questions and then get them answered by people that have, not. First of all they're experts within that field but second of all people that have actually walked apart because when you go and speak to an expert and, that's. What I'm one, of my catch cries from, the get-go is always beware of specialists, because you, know if you go to a if, you go to a, an. AdWords specialist, and what you really need is SEO guess, what you're living with Adwords and if you go to a web designer and what you really need is you. Know some SEO or your current website well you're leaving with a new website so, just be wary of, specialists. That's always been what I might categorize but I'm the. Same applies when you know when we're talking about spending money like you, just got, it's. So nice sometimes to go I just really wanted to drive a new car because, it just they just feel so nice. It's great but that's a reason to buy a car like you've really got to quantify and justify, that investment, so absolutely. I think there's a lot of truth in that hopefully, if that if what you do say if one trader hears it and doesn't bother you, what's that effort. Into their marketing and sales they'll be phenomenally, better for it right because, it's a matter of time before that money that you invest wisely. Will, be. Able to return you that kind of money. That can afford. You the car, it's. Interesting this is what we kind of look at like behaviour or state advice. Of the industry, standard so when you're trading and my car was then old, disclose I wasn't, paid badly, I was doing her I mmm. It was the norm to, have a youth of that quality and it was and the accountants, would tell you it's a great tax write-off, and all, these things were you almost felt like you were doing to my thing I mean in retrospect I was like that was terrible advice yeah, yeah. Exactly. Right I mean just, quantifies. My point even more like just beware specialist. Like. All. That. You know it's just. I. Want, to give you a group, of plug here so if you're on the Facebook app what. You'll need to search in the bar is the shot be sorry be site shed. Shirt, no, not the challenge head so that might actually make it more memorable get that URL and. If. You're looking for the URL to punch in its facebook.com. Slash, groups slash, the, site. Shed. And, we'll make sure we've got a link to it from here but. That sounds like the best place people can get a hold of you is there any other resources or, anything that is worth reaching out for me I might even just plug your website as well so these, sites shared calm is, definitely. Some great resources on there and then tradie web guys calm, delay you and I'm a fantastic resource. You. Can get me in all those places I'm I'm, pretty active in uh in. The in the Facebook King 12 I'm very active in the Facebook community and. Yeah. I mean the the site shed itself because I don't if you're a podcaster, good, and you and you're interested in that sort of stuff then go check it out it's available wherever, you'd listen to. Consume. Your podcasting, media so that's across all. Or podcasting, platforms and whatnot and that's the size shape that's consistent, so if you search that anywhere you'll find it brilliant. Well that brings us to the end of this episode but this and. Great, stuff in here I mean what's fascinating to me is like a lot, of what you've just spoken about doesn't, just apply to tradies, right these lessons are across the board right, and so this is one of the things right like. You. And I both know that at the end of the day a trade business is a small business and so, the. Information that's relevant to a trade business owner is still relevant to business owners but the reality, is from a marketing, point of view if, you're trying to if, I was trying to run a business podcast. Period. Then, it's very hard to get traction. In that space however because, I've chosen to do that and, niche myself towards tradies, as. A result we've got a lot of traction and we're the biggest podcast in the country and we're growing massively, the United States so that.
And I know this is something that I encourage to people out there as well at the listeners and the viewers know. Try, and if you, if you're really industry. You're. In a specific vertical. Try. And target a niche because it's it's. It's what can help you stand out as the expert and it doesn't mean that you necessarily have, to turn work away from other. Other verticals, what it means is you you're. Getting your foot in the door and then, once you're in the door then you can you've got the right to you know cross-promote, or whatever it is and trades, are a great example of that you know you say oh I'm the plumber what do you specialize in well everything ok cool so, so does everyone else right, but if you're a pipelining. Expert, or a hot water specialist, or whatever it is like that's that's a much from a marketing, perspective that's. A dream because you're niching yourself and it makes it a lot easier to get wins as the hot water expert, and when once you're in the door then, you can really start cross promoting oh by the way did you know we did block, drones by the way did you know we do these to put that kind of stuff so. That. Information, I mean that's relevant like you say, the. Business in general just. Pure gold in what you just said and it's like it's. Very, very true I think a lot of businesses out there are struggling because they refuse, to pick their niche you. So, it's a very very wise thing but the thing that distinguishes a tryi business, in my man in my mind is the amount of times they'll say the word Mac is smackers. No, knack is like as doing knack is. My. Boss used to say that. Explain. Yourself now ah this. Must be a Melbourne, thing but it's something very much, in trading, life is I felt like all the heads, of the companies never knew anyone's name right.
Just Call everyone knackers, knackers. Knackers. That was the go but it was widespread every. Company really. Must be a must. Be em Mexican, thing must. Be a Melbourne thing mother sounds of it anyway. Matt well wrap this went up from here thank you so much for being on the show and sharing. So much from that one guys. As I mentioned I will put all the links to where you can come and check out these Facebook groups and websites but, thank, you so much that's, it for this episode. Peace. Out, peace, out. You.