EP:034 The Secret Behind Engaging Communities with Diana Tower (Part 1)
I've got, a confession to make. I need. To get this off my chest. As. A business owner we all make mistakes. I've. Got to confess. And we. Are live it's, time for another episode of confessions. Of a business owner and today I am joined by a very special guest, Diana tower how you doing Diana I am. So excited to be here thanks, so much for having me now, you're more than welcome I really enjoyed a couple, of interviews i catched you on previously, one with james schramko particularly. On superfastbusiness. And i was like if, the opportunity, came I definitely, need to have you on this show, ya. Know it's great to be here I'm excited, this is gonna be juicy. Baby. So just read out your bio quickly here is that Diana. Tower is in the business of making people feel as a community. Engagement strategist. She helps 7 and 8-figure business, owners engage, and optimize their, flagship, communities, and I think that describes you really well and you do something that I feel is just so important, in today's world of business which, is you, really have an expertise, in talent, in, communities, so, yeah, I think it's, just one of those things that you, know being, able to bring people together and feel, certain things it's really important. So. For people that perhaps don't understand this because it is a newer thing that's coming to be could you briefly just describe what you do. Definitely. I think with. Community. I mean, there's a lot of ways that you can create communities so for example if you are running a program, so an online course maybe you have a membership, program and, you want to bring your members together. Some. People make the mistake of just like hey I'll set up a Facebook group and pop you all in there and you'll engage. Magically. And that's. Kind of that's a misconception and so what I do is I go in and really. Make sure that the, foundation of your community, is set up so that it's, going to promote engagement so, promoting, people connecting. And so. You know going in there and just making, sure that a community is set up properly looking. At like the strategies, that you have like there's, it's, really, funny because it sounds like an oxymoron so, like it's. All about emotions, and people connecting authentically, but then it's also very strategic, and so, I sort, of bring that strategy and optimization.
Into, A community setting, yeah. And I think it's really important, because I have fallen victim to being a part of some like, Facebook, groups or some tragic communities, where it's like everyone's in and excited in the beginning oh my oh my god this is gonna be brilliant, and then, my one week later like, ghost, town zero, value, and his, died and like it was often something I was excited about so, very common story, definitely. I think that people just have that assumption that you. Know people will magically know what to do and what not to do and so, they sort of just leave everyone to. Their own devices and you. Really, need to guide people you need to show them you know what's okay here what isn't okay here because if you, don't for example like if you don't have guidelines telling, people what not to do or what isn't kosher, here people, are gonna be a little bit scared they're gonna think wall is this okay and so there's gonna be that hesitation which. Then can even cause people not to engage or not to, post or share something which can, really kill engagement. Absolutely. I think that's a really great point and you've already mentioned a few little nuggets of gold or mic drop moments, as I would like to call them, well, it's like we. Don't like to, necessarily perceive. That we've been strategically, positioned. All the way you know making. You feel an emotion from there so it's like you, keep going away too far with this stuff and like almost where's people out but, without it there's nothing, well. That's the thing to even you, know some people might feel like it's manipulation. And I think it really depends on where you're coming from with that because I mean technically, speaking it is a form, of manipulation like, you're making. People feel a certain way but, it really depends on what your intention, is if you're making people feel supported and, inspired, because, you, care about them and you want them to succeed you know with the course that you're providing, or just, even with the the membership. That you're providing, that's like an authentic. Positive. Way of approaching it but if you're just like I want to sell more of my stuff or I want people to stay in my membership so they keep playing like they keep paying me like, that's gross, like it's that it doesn't come from a place of authenticity, and.
People, Are gonna smell it that's, the thing too is like people are not stupid like, they can really read, what's. Going on and so if you're coming from it you know from a place of actually, caring about your members, it's. A win-win for everybody, do. You know what I find really fascinating in, what you just, he's like you can absolutely smell, it and I, think what's crazy about that is it's from a computer, screen so you're not even dear but you can taste it when someone needs money or when they're trying to come, across from desperation. But, the reality, is if they actually just tared and had. Your interest is hearts they probably wouldn't have been in that first scenario, anyway. So. As if massive, irony, in that well. That's the thing too is I think that people, really forget that, you know we're online and. Like we're writing, things or we're sharing pictures or, were sharing video but when. It when you boil it all down we're, dealing. With people we're, dealing with humans and feelings, like emotions, like that's actually you know I mentioned this on the other podcast there was long as well like emotions. Is the strategy. For community, that that's, actually what makes it strategic, so if you're able to make people feel a certain way or make people avoid. Feeling something, that they don't want to feel like excluded. Or you, know maybe lonely, or something like that, like that's really powerful, but it's if you if you take out the, online aspect, it's just like what. Would you do in person like, if you met somebody and you wanted to show that you care about them or you wanted to kind of connect with them or you, know if, you wanted to form a relationship with other people what would you be doing and it's, really actually interesting, what you can do is imagine. Like. You've got a community and you want to welcome people in what. Would you do in a real life situation so, imagine if you were joining, a yoga class what, do they do to, make you feel welcome so maybe it's like the instructor, comes over and talks to you or maybe another member comes over and says hey is this your first day like kind, of connecting that way and so, you can think okay that's what I would do in the real world what's, the online, version of that so, maybe it's a welcome, video maybe it's a private message, maybe it's hopping on a quick call you. Know having other members, you know welcome other new people I think you know it's, the same thing it's just it's a different mechanism. To, kind of deliver that and people forget that people are like oh it's online, and they they, they try to systematize, everything, I'm very into systems and operation, like sort of optimizing, but like you, there's. A line that you'll cross so like if you have a bot that like welcomes, everyone in. And it's canned responses, people will people can smell it you know they know that oh this is just the, copy and paste message that everyone gets it's, like you really have to be careful like, there's a line you have to kind of balance it, absolutely. And I think we need to recognize that not, all communities, share the same emotions, and that was something huge I took from your other. Interview. Was like I'll use the example is like if I'm a personal, trainer let's, say hypothetically he's, like maybe I'm wanting people to feel accountable. Like maybe that's something that really sticks to me but in the example you used in yoga, maybe, if I had a yoga group hypothetically. One day was he but. Like maybe it's much more about feeling accepted, and supported and like how I would distribute, that would, be completely different. 100%. And that's it that is exactly why, it's. The biggest mistake to just copy what other people are doing in their communities like, oh, XYZ. Group is doing this to welcome their members so I'm gonna do the same tactic, that's, looking at tactics, that's not looking at the strategy, and the strategy is the emotion, and so like, that's like the number one things like if I for. Example like when I go in and I audit, a community, I'm I'm. Looking at what, is the number one emotion for them and it takes a little bit of research like you actually have to ask people, and that's another thing too is you might think oh my, yoga group they want to feel you, know accepted. 100 percent but. Did you ask them and you might ask them and maybe they do want to feel accepted but then the really big response, was actually something like just. You, know having fun or, feeling. Inspired or you, know all, these different variations of emotion, that you think oh really and then, so when you know it's they want inspiration, versus say feeling proud that.
Changes Everything it changes, the way that you write your welcome posts it changes the way you welcome, people in it changes, how you, respond, to questions cuz you can just sit there and say okay how. How can I make them feel inspired, or how can I make them feel proud of themselves, and you. Know one of the biggest thing that it's so funny is simply, saying, it so like for example if, somebody wants to feel proud you, can just literally say I'm so proud of you because, I mean if somebody says to me like dad I'm so proud of you because you did this it's like I feel. All warm and fuzzy right, cuz somebody, is telling me that they're proud of me then I suddenly feel proud and so, it's the same thing like if, you. If somebody wants to feel supported you, know I can come in and say wow like this is such like this is such a fantastic, accomplishment. Like we're here for you or so and you can you can sprinkle, in other emotions, because everyone kind of wants to feel proud like there's some pretty standard emotions, that everyone you, know feeling, appreciated right. So like if one, of your members help somebody else out jump. In and say wow I really appreciate, you taking the time to. Help that other person and then, that actually like splinters, out because, then the, person that did the the, thing they feel appreciated, the person that got help sees that you're appreciating, the other person so it's like this weird like you know it just like dominoes. Out and then, it actually teaches other people, to, do the same action. Because they want to feel that same feeling as well so, it's it's. As long. As you're coming from an authentic caring. Place it's. It's a really, wonderful thing I don't. Know how people do. Community strategy, without, caring. And without. Actually you know giving. A about people because I think that that would just be a very. Manipulative. Not. Again just too, much into the numbers like I it. Just feels really wrong and that it's definitely not the way that I do community. But. Yeah I think that just really caring, about people it's it's. Something that's really important, when you're when you're working with community I agree. So much on that and I think anyone that runs the successful, community, would, back, that to the point and it's just the fundamental, of a, community actually working is, whoever's running a caring and the other members caring, but. I want to take a little bit more into the point you just mentioned, about understanding. The, emotions, so. You, almost hinted, to but it's like if you're someone that doesn't understand, the, emotions, of your community, or what emotion you want them to feel are. You looking to survey is or quizzes, or your, marketing to extract that information or, maybe you pull it from, exactly. So what I would do is you, can probably pull it from just. Observing, in the community but the easiest way for example in a Facebook group you, can do a poll you, literally just set up a poll and what. You do is you probably have a hunch you probably know that there's like five emotions, that you really kind of think that, they want to feel you, pop them in you say hey and it's super easy right, like this is not this is not like. Hard you just say like hey guys I'd really like to know how, you want to feel here, we're really excited to have you here let. Us know which emotion. Or how you want to feel if and, if it isn't there add it, in because they have that option to add in an emotion so imagine you put like supported. Proud elite. Accepted. And, appreciate it and then. Either. People, put in a different option, and then other people start voting for it or you. Just notice that like after say a couple days boom, like pride is like, like. 100% like nobody else is saying I just want to feel proud of myself just by. Knowing that just by doing that like, I said you then think. About that whenever you're doing anything in your community so when you're writing a post will, this make him feel proud when, you're adding an image does. This image, make. Them feel pride, in some, sort of way you, know when you reply to a question when you you, know comment, or anything it's, like how is this gonna make them feel proud or. Whatever that one emotion is that's, probably, the easiest way if you're not on Facebook just, setting up a survey you can use like Survey Monkey or, even Google Forms and you, do the same thing you. Just provide them some options also a really good thing is is well like if you google Wheel. Of emotions, you'll, get these like, rainbows, okay these really big wheels and they're very colorful and they, just show all these different, emotions so it's not just like happy, and sad, it's, like.
Accepted. Content. You, know alive, vibrate. Like all these different variables and so that, can help you if you're kind of like you, want to feel good here I don't really know like if you're not into the emotions like you're not really sure you, can get some inspiration there, but, also you can post that image in your form so that they can have some inspiration so it's like. What. Do you want to feel also, you can do a step above that and actually, ask them how they don't want to feel so, for example you, can kind of tap into what they're scared of so maybe they feel like they're gonna feel stupid or maybe. They're gonna feel excluded, if you, know that. Those are the fears but, they really want to feel like supported, and proud you. Focus on the positive but, then you also in the back of your mind are, proactively. Thinking okay, they're scared of feeling excluded how. Might this make them feel excluded or what can I do to really be inclusive, for, your members and so by, having that information it's. Just like a step above it but, that's what I would do in terms of just identifying, that emotion. Yeah. And I must admit I used to use the wheel of emotion when I was in my advertising, days because, it's a phenomenal, resource when you say you're like holy crap there's so many emotions, but. It's a phenomenally, powerful, thing, and what I find really, interesting as you said is it's when, you use, the word and then, people, that can create the feeling as well and there's a lot of power in, understanding. That if you you do run a community I really do believe it but, that's a phenomenal. Straight. Up like this micro, moments all the way through we haven't even got to the confession. I'm. Excited it's so funny because I I can talk about this stuff like all day because I just I this, is the thing to like I like. With community, and that's actually how I started out with community I couldn't help myself I actually like. The the, reason why so, I actually managed, roommates eighties accelerator, community, so his membership program, and coaching, program, but, the reason how did I get that position, like how did I get that I joined. One, of his programs I then signed up for that, coaching, program and I. Started helping people because I couldn't help it I was like oh like. I could, edit your paper because I used to be an English teacher I used to be an ESL teacher in, Madrid and so. I was like oh well I can read your your document and give you some advice or you know being supportive, I was always like that person. That was just like hey like you're doing such a great job and, kind. Of obsessed with Facebook like I my. Personal, account I was always on Facebook and so. Basically. I started, like just like diving in and helping people and the company noticed they were like mmm this is interesting and Cruces person and I consistently kept doing it. It was just something that I really, enjoyed and I think it was maybe two months in they were like hey you know I got like I got offered the position of community manager and so I think. That like that kind of says something as well in terms of like, the work that I am doing it's not it's. Not just because you know I'm good at it and I'm strategic, it's that I actually really. Enjoy, like, what I'm doing and so, you know if you ask any of my friends if I join a community, even if I'm not a community manager I cannot help myself, from like adding. Value so like I joined, this other program last, year and I. Was like hmm there's. No sort of road map document, that shows all of the important posts, I'm gonna make one you know and I just went and I made it and I shared it and so, it's like the host of the community is neat thank. You that's great other people, like they they can find post more easily I think that you, know just, I like, doing that and so that's that's. I think where like the authenticity, comes, through because I just enjoy what I'm doing but then I'm also really, good at it so it's kind of like this awesome combination, of just being like, doing what you love I feel like I kind, of embody that with community.
Definitely. And it's something as an observation for, those of you on the video is that something I notice is when you talk about communities, you light up like. It's some. People you ask them about what they do and it's like I you. Know I kind of do this thing. People. Yeah. Man. You need to stop that you need to change whatever you're doing where it's like you. Light up about it but you bring in to a fascinating point there something I've seen of all weakening in my own community and other communities I've been a part of is it seems that there's few people that really get, into it like there's like certain people in the community that spend as much time in it as I do. Is. There anything you've noticed, from people coming into communities, and taking on that role, that's. Actually, really. Important and that's how you can kind of once you've got your community, established that's, actually something you can do to take it to the next level so as a. Team member if I'm noticing that there's someone who's like super active, they're always engaging and supporting that's, somebody, that you could kind, of. Turn, into, sort of maybe a mentor, or somebody. That's not officially, on the team but it could be like a volunteer that, is like, a moderator, or sort. Of what you can do is you can offer, them, something so, for example I remember before, I became the community manager for accelerator. I. There was a perk I remember I got offered, some additional coaching as a, thank-you and so if you have people, that are authentically. Jumping. In and helping and supporting your community you. Know consider, offering. Them something just a little bit more or something that they're gonna appreciate so. That they can kind of do it a little bit more officially, and that can take your so imagine if you've got yourself, as the host and maybe you've got a community manager. You. Then can sort, of divide up some of the responsibilities. To some of these mentors. Or you, know moderators. Or additional, people and it's, like having extra eyes you know having extra eyes on your community, too and, it could be something as simple as just like encouraging. Other people or, sometimes. As well like flagging, post because this would think - like I love community, but there are moments where community is like, okay. And it's not just the community it's you know certain people doing, certain things and you're thinking can you read the guidelines this, is not okay, oh, my. And you have you can't you can't, like. You can't be a dick, right you can't be like, ya. Need, to read the guidelines, delete. Or like you know like you need to depending. On the community you. Need to react, in an appropriate. Way and also not make them feel those negative emotions right, you need to make them feel proud and supported, but. You also have to enforce. Guidelines that's why they're, there and. Just. A point I've, never seen something ensure, training. Of a member more quickly than, a public shaming, yes. Yes. This is the thing it's very like there's a fine line like, when to decide, between. Like a private. Message and a public message and here's my rule of thumb right if, okay. So if someone's being self-promotional. Hey. You're gonna probably delete the post in your in a private messaging because you don't want to leave it up there right but imagine if someone has an imagine rules, about like including. A specific title for, example and they, don't put the title and you're like other. People are gonna see it other people are gonna think it's okay to not have this title that's when you just do a public. Little comment you say hey John um. Thank you so much for you know sharing your question it's really great can I get you to update your post just to include the title here's the template here the guidelines super appreciate, it cuz. Then what's happening, is again.
It's Like a domino hey that person is gonna feel like oh, I did something wrong okay I better fix it but, then other people are. Gonna see it and there's two benefits one, it teaches other people to, actually follow the guidelines but, to which. Most, people don't think about is that other, people appreciate, you of like enforcing, the guidelines because if I'm in a community and I am taking the time to, write out my specific title, and like add specific, information, and, somebody, else doesn't and then the community manager or host leaves it. Like. I'm sitting there thinking what the hell why am I putting all this time in to. The. Double standard enforce, the guidelines, right so it, makes people like other people, appreciate you, enforcing. The guidelines even though in the moment you can kind of feel like. Especially. Because other like. Other. Members don't know how many times you've told people to do a certain thing so for you you feel like oh my god you know like five times a day you're telling someone to do something or not do something so, for you it can be kind, of frustrating like as a community manager or, a host if you're doing this yourself. But. The members on the other side if they're seeing just consistency. That. Adds to the community feel and also, like they appreciate, it people want, a high quality community. They don't want you, know crappy. Questions, or like people you, know depending on what it is you know if somebody is kind of like freaking out maybe it's like a community about like online. Business or getting publicity something, like that and. If you're just like I don't know what to do, and, there's. No context, nobody, can help you right. And so like having those that. Those guidelines that say okay have a specific title give, us some context, what do you think you should do try. And answer your own question, and then other people can jump in. And offer insights, because. If somebody is just you know if it's a couple sentences and they're just kind of freaking out like. The. What, people have to do is hey can you give us more context. We'd, love to help but. Expedition. Exactly. It wastes, people's time and that's the thing too like you don't want your members to feel like you. Know they come into the community and I really want to help people but. Like it's all this ping-pong back, and forth in order to get information like, you want people to come in and say look I can help Jon drop. It you know drop it in there and and go away not oh I'll. Follow up with Jon and then come back and, get the information. So. And that's the thing like a lot most, people don't talk about this at all right. Like with community, it's it's, not sexy, it like you know guidelines, and enforcing, like nobody really wants. To focus on that they just want to focus on like, the benefits, right like oh like a community can you, know increase. Customer loyalty or. You can cross sell things or you can you know promote other programs, increase, retention all, this sort of stuff but, like there is like, that 20%, that it feels, may be like okay, we're policing, this or we're dealing with it but it's necessary, it's part of like.
The Whole package, definitely. I almost. Want to throw another thing on that I'm very fortunate in, my community, I feel like my I've been very lucky and I there's a very high quality of, question coming through but, I have, a paid community, I want, to know if this is something we see that, is there's a gap between free, and paid is this one of the things that becomes more of a challenge, yeah. Well, here's, the thing like personally, myself I don't. Recommend having, a free group like a lot of cool for example it depends on your stage of business as well but a lot of people they're, just starting out their businesses and they're like I'm gonna set up a free group cuz I can you, know get more subscribers and promote my products, and like Pied Piper everyone in and it's gonna be perfect and people will engage and. They don't realize how much time and effort it takes to sort. Of have, that high quality caliber. Community. And so, in. That sense I'm just like don't, don't. Do a free group don't go there if you. Know if you've got your business model all set up and you're looking for a way to then expand, you. Know having a free Facebook community might be a good option. But, in terms of quality. Control, like. When, you have a paid community. That's. In, and of itself is making, the level that. Much higher because people are paying there's, like a gate like a barrier to entry when, it's just a free Facebook group it's like okay, anybody. Can come here there's no real there's. No standard, there's no, filter. I guess it might just be from subject, matter so it could be like a Facebook, group for for. Podcasting, for example but, there's no real. Kind. Of separation. I guess and that's actually something that's really important as well like, the best communities, are sort. Of specific, it's like you're solving the same problem, or you're going through the same situation, or you, were like, somehow. You're all like, you've got this like, like. Camaraderie. Type, set up yeah exactly. Like there's something that's tying you together that's. What makes community really, strong it's just like in real life you, know if you go and you hang, out with your entrepreneurial, friends, it's. Very different than say if you hang out with you. Know friends that have a nine-to-five job right. So there's that, you. Know it's different so if you had for example if you had a group, it's, all your friends, that. Could be really weird cuz you've got your friends that are like nine, to fivers you've got your entrepreneurial, friends, you've got like all these different people and you're kind of it's like if you imagine if you invite them all over for dinner and you're, all like. What. Do I talk about cuz. You. Can't talk about your business necessarily, cuz you're gonna alienate these people over here then. You don't want to maybe talk about the, fact that you're going, on a really nice long vacation because, then you're gonna alienate the nine-to-fivers like, it's. The same thing it's just in an online community, definitely. And like I like your we'll go back to the sporting example, it's like if you had a community for yoga instructors, or, a community, for people who were into health and fitness it's. Like it's very very, different conversations, and it's very very different what they would talk about but, I think there's I. Have, to say I agree on that one it's like specific. Communities. And even, more importantly in my opinion specific. Paid communities, Wow. The, really nice thing because, my. Own community is my application only, and it's paid so. It's like. It's. Very. Exclusively. At. The other side of that is that my members feel, a part of something on the other side because not just anyone can join you can't buy your way in and you can't just apply your way in and not so it's, an exclusivity feeling, and that creates some camaraderie so, I agree, on that point in a huge way I've seen it that's. Such, a good point and even just the fact that like, you don't even have to mention it although you could message on it but like the fact that not. Everybody, gets in. Instantly. Makes it up. Here, in terms of like I'm a part of something special I'm, a part of something that not everybody has access to like.
For Me just like hearing it like it just sounds really, good so. You're. Like, you can capitalize, that on that for example even. If you sprinkled, that in like so I'm not what what format is your community on is it on Facebook or is it on a different platform well, isn't that a controversial, question. In themselves we, are on. Facebook and we also have, a. Membership. Site as well so we do both so. So, here's the thing then so imagine, with the Facebook one like, you. Can totally sprinkle. That feeling into everything, so imagine, like your cover image, mentioning. That, this is like an application, only select. Group, of people even. Just having the word like as a soap like a tagline, would, be amazing or even. Just like mentioning. It in some of your main posts, so if you have like a regular post that happens down Monday's like. Just sprinkle, it in like just like it's so wonderful, to be with you guys you, know this hand-picked. Group of people, like just mentioning. It it's, gonna remind people like oh yeah, like I'm special not. Everybody else gets to be in here so, like, that's definitely, something that you can like that you can capitalize, on as well so uh what's. Interesting is like we're recording this now and the podcast will probably come out like let's say a month from this time he's, like by the time this comes out by I'm gonna be since you guys let's feel exclusive, oh I'll put it in and then I gotta listen to this again I see. You. In action and. Then what you could even do you can even have a discussion with your community, and even, just say like hey like. And after the fact you, can sort of like, kind of talk. About and say like hey how do you guys feel how. Do you feel about being. In this community and like even just like even, just starting, that conversation of. The fact that it's a hand-picked select community, is then gonna trigger the fact that it's a hand-picked community. So it's like this. Snowball. Effect of just making people feel amazing. Yeah. I love that I think, that's something I can certainly improve on or enhance so I mean, even if no one listens to this episode which they will but like I feel like I've gained something here so that's brilliant, so thank you so much for that point I wanted to there's. A point I want to dig into on that because something, I've been very against, is like I don't like these, posts, where it's like you know Monday. How you feeling, oh God so, you mentioned routine, posted on mic I don't know if I like that at all so something for me is like I don't have them at all and it's very. Organic. What we post about or talk about it's, a topical, based on what's going on how do you feel about that oh my. God I when, I agree like this idea like this, idea of like having everything, pre-programmed. It's like Monday motivator, Tuesday's. Talking, or Wednesday's whatever, like. Like. No. Because it's automated. It's, not, actually. Really. Doing anything I think what you have to do now here's the thing though some groups will have them and, it's, strategic, and you have to test it like you have to see if it actually helps, people so, for example, you, know if you have on Fridays, something where it's like you can celebrate wins for the week for example if people, are actually using it go. For it do, it and keep it but I mean I know that in in some communities we've had say three you, know Monday Wednesday Friday and now, there's only Friday because Monday and Wednesday it didn't. Hack a program, it was it wasn't it wasn't adding, value, and that's this is the thing to is whenever you're you're looking at your community like the number one question ultimately is does, this help. My member in some, way does it make him feel good does it help them accomplish something, and if it doesn't pull, it cuz you know the last thing you want are these posts.
That Get auto posted, and they just sort of float down, and then they float down there's, maybe two likes on it it's, like a graveyard. Because. That then is. Sending, a message actually that it kills, a little bit of engagement because it's sending a message that people aren't engaging and so, it's like oh people. Aren't really engaging so I'm not gonna engage that much but, then when you have posts. That are like you said organic and like real. And people, actually are engaging like if you go in and you see a post that has a hundred comments you bet your butt that you're gonna go in there and be like oh I'm gonna toss, my hat, in the ring and add my two cents but if there's a post and there's two likes on it like, how did how does that make you feel it. Makes it feel like it's kind of dead so, I 100%. Agree I would say either don't, have them or really, like test them and see does, this actually add value. Well. I mean my experience with, them unfortunately. Is. This fascinating thing that happens with people which biases, former or really biased now. The problem is in having been in groups where they've done that you know Monday motivation, Tuesday, pitch or whatever it is inevitably. Because we've seen that done badly I don't want to bring it into my group because of the taste of what it's been like elsewhere, I'm not even sure I would test it but. Yeah. It's a very interesting one because I wonder, if and I've seen some groups out there that do do it and that I would call or unlike. Cessful people, but, I think your point Trump's, all there and saying well if it adds value then it's okay I think, that's a golden nugget in what type of content we should all be thinking, about creating, yeah. And also like that's a good point like if anybody's feeling apprehensive about doing these posts don't, go and set up five posts. A week like. Don't do that like what you can do actually is, you, can test it without being automatic, so imagine if you do. A post about sharing, your wins or sharing, your struggles, for the week and you notice, that you get a lot, of engagement, do. It the same time every, week and just test it but do it yourself like take the time to write it and see if people look consistently. Are posting. And consistent, enjoying, it and then. You know if you do that for a couple of weeks and you see like wow people really seem, to be enjoying this then. Automate, it and then, leave it like, up and running, and see what happens, and if you notice that like okay it's certain that one. Down pull, it and so. Like that's like it's. An authentic way of testing it it's not just like alright we've got our five daily, posts they're all in meet Edgar or HootSuite, or whatever it is that's automatically, posting, them out like. Don't. Do that like start small test. It see if it works for your group and then, automate, it right like you don't just automate right out of the gate like that's just no don't, well maybe I'm a, contrarian, on this one I don't. Automatically. Err. Is like I actually care, and, I think that's one of the reasons why my community has been successful, so. To, me it's like I kind of come back to I'm not sure automating.
Shows That, care and. That's like especially when if, you use HootSuite or buffer it says poster-boy HootSuite, and buffer I'm, really. Concerned that if I behave, that way that. My community was think well he's not here and. Yeah. The truth of the matter is I actually want to be there as well so it's like this. Is also different like this isn't thing to like I think as well like so for you like yours is like it's a membership, so it's not a course, based community, right so it's not like in, addition to a course I think that that's, a really interesting distinction. As well because I know that for people that are running a community where it's like you were in it specific, that's the product like the membership, is the product, you. Are in it more and so like. There is an understanding. So for example maybe it's access to you or maybe it's access, to the people that are in the community then, no like you probably don't want to automate it because that is sending a message of like oh well I don't have time to, write, a post or this, isn't as important, I'm just gonna kind of like set it up and. Maybe. An automated, I think, that so. For example with with, course bonus, groups I think that people. Can definitely take it too far like I said like I wouldn't be setting up five automated. Posts but if there's something, that people, really appreciate, like having saying countability thread on mondays or you. Know sharing, their wins on fridays and you're doing it every week I would, say that like setting up an automated post for that is fine but. Then you also want to make sure that, there's, other ways that you're interacting or, that you are adding value so that people don't even question it, and that's actually a really good point too like if, you are in it and you're engaging, and, people, just like feel that you're there and that you care about them they're, not gonna care if you schedule one or two posts but if you're just like everything. Is automated, and then you happen to sprinkle, in some comments here and there that's, when people are gonna be like what. Like what is this especially, if they're paying for, access to you or they're paying for that community experience, I think that would leave kind, of a bad taste in my mouth definitely. But you've actually brought up a really good point if you're a course provider, and you're doing a six-week course and, there's specific things that are meant to go at each week I'm.
Okay With that I think automation, in that regards, is a different story I was more thinking about from my point of view there but I wanna almost. Open up a question, that I'm dying to ask you this is almost like my number one to. Facebook or. Not to face oh. My. God it's such a good question and it so depends. Okay. Here. Are some things they, have to check off your list here's the number one question that people don't ask are. Like. Your people is your audience on Facebook do. They like Facebook so imagine, if you're creating. I don't know like you have a course and it's about like. Productivity. And. You. Know you one part of your courses like getting off social, media and then. You have a community. On. Facebook. Doing. That that's hilarious by the way. It's. A guy it's a little like it's an oxymoron right so, that's, something to take into consideration now, but then on the flip side if, people, are already on Facebook. It's it is advantageous for you because Facebook it draws, people in it's it feels more, personal because you can see like, the person, but then also kind of what's happening in their life so it's like it does, create, that sense of like hey, I'm a member of this group and check out this is I don't I keep saying John John, is apparently my example for the day so John, you, know he, just you. Know achieves something or he's in this yoga class or you know he has a puppy I have a puppy too like it it, allows, people to kind of feel like they can know people. Better. But. I would say that the number one question is first of all like are your, people on it or do they like it or will they use it and. The second, option though as well is. You. Know for yourself, like do, you are, you, okay with Facebook because I know that some people they, hate Facebook so imagine if you don't use Facebook at all and then. You're okay so I'm gonna create this community and then, the only reason that you're going onto Facebook is for this community, that. Might not be the best kind. Of approach for it so I know like another option that I highly recommend is slack and it's, really interesting because slack is actually, you know people, generally. Think of it for like internal, communication, for companies so I actually use that with a lot of my clients but. It actually is fantastic. Especially, for, for courses because you can create different channels, so, you can create a channel for each module or, you can create like a section, where it's like yours the water cooler or here is where you can share your wins so it feels a little bit more like a forum, and so. That can kind of avoid, I think, that like the number one complaint, like with Facebook is that it's like. The wall so, it feels a little bit noisy and it goes by you know the last person to comment or the last person to post not sort. Of organized. By like content, or you know when, it was posted. So. It. Can feel a little bit more organized if you're if you're looking for, that so I would say like, the two questions I would be asking myself if I were you know setting up the group I would say you, know it.
Does My audience use Facebook is that something that's gonna be a good fit for them that they're gonna be able to use easily and. Then also what's, more important, to me like, is it that I want something to be very structured, and easy, like kind of find information, so people can focus I would. Go with slack in that case or, am i, okay with facebook and and actually, this is a really good point you can hack Facebook so remember, I mentioned, like creating a road map document. In that community cuz adding value that, is a fantastic. Way to sort of hack this idea that you know Facebook is all over the place because, you can you. Just create this document that has links to all of your your core module content, or the main posts, and then people can just go in and say oh this was from week one click, and then they've, got the post so, I would. Say like it's. Definitely and it's a controversial, question because there's a lot of people that I don't set it up on Facebook because Facebook it's not yours, like, let's just be real listen. Barry it's not yours it's. It's a very real reason and the thing too is they, change the rules you, know and so for example like I'm very into, systems and optimizing, my time so, I actually created a system using a, third-party app called critics that is like analytics, for Facebook groups and I could make these amazing spreadsheets. That would allow me to click, on a direct, link to each person's. Profile. So I could message them so this is actually something I would do you know to welcome people in I would actually private message people but, this spreadsheet made, it super, fast so I was really efficient, and so. With the recent changes with Facebook none. Of those spreadsheets work, and actually, grid --ax no. Longer can pull photos. Names. Or profiles, of your members. And so, now this amazing, optimization. That I created is gone. And I, can't use it so, I mean and, that's. The thing though is but you I think that if you use, Facebook you just have to be open, to the fact that they're gonna change the rules and you have to roll with it and if you're okay with that great like I you, know I'll create, a different system that's kind of on me but, if you're not ok with that if you want control if you want to know that okay this is how it works and it's always gonna work this way don't. Build it on Facebook build it on slack or build it on another say application, or platform where, you own it and where you control it yeah. I think that's a fantastic point, of view personally. I find myself feeling, very torn because. What she will about Facebook, but their groups, and the features it's, amazing, and it's free, for. Goodness yeah. Let's, just be real it's free and it's, easy okay. So if you don't have like a tech background you, literally go in click, click click boom, you have a group add a picture. Add a pin, post and a welcome invite. People in like it, really, makes. It like, easy it's not difficult, and so I think that for a lot of you. Know business, owners that either a don't have time or don't have the knowledge to like kind of set something up it really is kind of like, community.
In A box like it's just like there. We go like set it up but. I mean that's where people get sucked into that idea of like oh I can just set up the group and it will magically engage, I mean you can set it up and the foundation, is there but, is it actually set up so that you can engage people that's like the real question, yeah. Absolutely so there the other side of that and you know to even out these conversation, is like because, well I have a Facebook group and honestly it's been a success, I would call it a success that I'm very appreciative to Facebook, in. Like the events, the way we can broadcast like, there's some huge wins the. Downsides. Though is like in recent, times with Cambridge analytical, and all these things from there it's like I do, have concerns of, the. Well-being, of my community, members and then how their, data or post maybe use I also, have concerns in, like this is the number one thing I hear is like I came, on of the group and for 10 minutes and then I spent 15 minutes doing other things I shouldn't be doing I kind. Of caused that, distraction. Just, yeah that's the thing is Facebook I mean they have people like engineers specifically. Their, job is to make Facebook. Sticky. And pull. You in and like I mean everyone, has had that I know for myself like, I've I've become very good, at like getting, in and focusing. On what I'm doing but, there are times when you're like. There's. Little, cat over here and all of a sudden it's like Time, Warp and you're like how did how did I just spend 40 what about what was it or you don't even know you're doing like you have to be really, careful you're like why did I come in here right, I'm doing this like you that's, the thing I think that's, actually something that you can teach your members though because I mean I've learnt it for myself because I'm in Facebook all the time and I'm, productive so if I can learn it other people can learn it and so you, know you as a host you, can even say like hey guys you can even have a conversation and, say hey does anyone ever get, distracted by, Facebook, here, are some, ways that you can really stay focused and make sure that the community is adding, to your experience, and not you. Know necessarily, say sucking, you in or taking, away I think, that's important, as well to kind of to really support your members and actually show them how to use it and how to use it effectively. Definitely. So. It would ask another question here, about engagement. Because, this is something I think is crucial, to the success of any communities, like how engaged or rallied up the members are what. Do you look at to increase, engagement you know community, I, think. That the. Main thing is making, people feel a certain way so for example when people feel like. Their desired emotion. They're, going to do more of what you're, rewarding, so for example like if you want people to, be having conversations, with each other you. Want to reward that or you want to kind of set the tone with that so for example, this is something actually as well now this applies to. Course-related. Communities. It might not apply so much for if the membership, is the the product, but, I know that you know some hosts they feel like that they have to like. Imagine. You have like 300 people join in like, a day and you're trying, to make sure that you welcome everyone in and you're trying to provide that personal, touch, but actually, going through and doing individual. Messages isn't, realistic for 300 people in a day and, so what. You can do is, you. Can teach them like, you can teach the members to, be sort, of it's like peer to peer community, as well so it's like setting the tone for here's, how involved, I'm going to be in the community and also. Here's, like what we expected, of you as members, so, for. Example if you go in and you're commenting on, every single post you're setting the tone that okay. The host is gonna be replying, to everything if that's what you want to set great, if that's, not what you want to set like if you have this idea that you're launching this week you're gonna be super active, and then you're going to like bring. Down your engagement, don't, do that like you need to set your hours I I call them like you're what's your happy time like your happy hours like if you, want to be in your community X, amount of time a week start. That from the beginning so that you set the expectation for your members and so like with that by. Doing that you actually get, people to engage more, because, they're gonna engage with each other so, that's something in terms of engagement that.
Just. Like setting expectations. So if you if, you, want it to be like a direct. Conversation between you and the members that's, great and you said that but I think that if you're. Looking for people to kind of engage with each other setting, that expectation. And. In, terms of, like. In terms of engagement so you want people to be posting, you want people to be asking questions you, want people to be sort, of sharing things like proactively, and, and that really kind of depends on the. The environment. That you're creating so if you're creating, a place, where it's okay to share. Struggles, it's okay to share problems and then also rewarding. People that do what. You want them to do so for example if somebody posts a question, and then, you and, a lot of other members jump in and they're like wow this was so great thank you so much really appreciate it, that, person's gonna do it again because. They're getting that sort of that positive feedback so, I would say in terms of you, know getting people, to do more of what you want them to do so, if you want people to be posting questions, reward. Them for that or if, you want people to be you, know commenting, and supporting, or answering, other questions you, reward, people for doing that and, that's a really good point too like if you if. Your time is super limited and you're, trying to decide how, to engage, in your community, don't. Just be randomly, like hey it's great to see you or you know doing this like I would, I would do is I would focus on the. People that are helping other people I would thank them so. Imagine, that's the only thing you do right. You, sank other people for helping other people that. Makes people want to help other people more and that's, the act like that's the engagement that you're looking for so it's basically I think it boils down to just reward, people for the actions, that you want them to be doing because they'll do it more I really. Like is a almost. An underlying theme in, the way you speak, which is awesome by the way but, I look at this and I'm like sitting here and I'm going well really if. I get the emotions, right in my group so I survey my group I. Bring. It all in and I have that information and then I reward, and. Discourage. The, behaviors I want to see within my own group along, with actually, caring about my members. Then. It's really hard to go wrong. Seriously. This is the thing I think that when. Here's. The thing this is actually a really good point it's. Not it's. It's really difficult to go wrong if you, start, with a strong foundation if, you start, with that from the very beginning because you set the tone the, problem, is when, you have to re-educate. People because. Imagine you've got a community and it's. Like it's been there for a year and you. Don't really have strong guidelines you haven't been enforcing, things people are kind of doing whatever they want and you're, sitting there like okay, what. Do i do how do I get people to. Do. What I want them to do and not do what I don't want them to do that make sense yes and, the. Thing is with that it's uncomfortable, because it's a period of time where you're reading, your community and it, can be difficult, so I mean you know helping, for example like I recently helped a client relaunch, their program and in, the relaunch we wanted to make sure that people, weren't tagging. The. Hosts all the time because it was insane like, it was just like hundreds. Of people tagging guru and so, basically, in the launch it was like it was my job to, make sure that we established. That new guideline of you know please don't tag the host they're gonna be active, but. We're, not gonna be tagging, and so what. Happened, is is you've got probably. Like oh it was three. Days or, two, days even mostly, the first day of really. Like being hard on that guideline deleting. Things or message, things publicly, saying hey this is great can you untag, this person send, me private messages and just really, being, like.
No, It feels hard cuz you're like you're. Trying to cut this habit but. It could apply to anything so it might be tagging, it might be the way people post but if you decide. You're like you want to make a change what, you have to do is just consistently, enforce it for. At least, four. Days so. That people can see the difference and then also what happens is they don't see other people doing that mistake. Or that that, behavior so, they stop doing it and I, think that that's the problem just still of per second four days is nothing, if you said like a four week so I you know this is a stretch but like really that's not a big obstacle to overcome like, it's a to change your behavior as a community, or like I'm up for four days I think four days is nothing in the scope of things so that's a really good thing, yeah, I think that I mean, I would say that like especially well, to, clarify, as well during a launch it. Would be four days so like that's when it's really high intensity there's, all these new people because, that's the thing too if you're, getting all these new people in there, looking around they're they're trying to establish what's, good like, what's okay here and what isn't and so if they see other, people, doing. The behavior they're, gonna think it's okay so that's why you have to just be really strong with it for that four days and then it's like oh the new people they don't even create. That bad habit and then, like the veterans, they've learned that okay this is the new way we're doing things I would, say that you know if it's if it's, not a launch and it's just you're, trying to change a habit and there aren't any new people coming in that's. Where it's gonna probably, take longer. Look. I'm. Very fortunate my, community, is in great shape and if anyone's listening guys I'm very appreciative, that a lot of the stuff we're talking about. We're. On top of year but nonetheless, I, really, believe in that that's funny that you know transitioning. The culture of a group you feel someone that's running your group and that's not where it is and, be easy to lose sight of these things and for, a community, to fall off so, what. I'm taking from this is if you run a community like you've, got a one beer these stuff from the beginning -, you, have to enforce it because if you slip and then the cost of changing, down the road is very. Very highly expensive. Definitely. I would say like anybody, that is, starting. A community started. Off right like, take the time to set up the foundation to. Kind of to, know how, they want to feel and set. Up your system that way so that it's not just like okay. Like we're gonna do this here and I think this and please. Have guidelines like, I don't know how many people have spoken to it like yeah I don't I don't actually have guidelines, it's like it's. A ticking, time bomb like, you were just waiting for someone to go do something that is super inappropriate but, you didn't. Do. Whatever I want here. Seriously. Anybody that's listening it doesn't have guidelines go, and put them up like now even just basic, guidelines. Like what's okay and what isn't. I've. Seen someone with guidelines that are just laughs and I hate this bit like I'm, gonna say you're gonna have good guidelines, I've seen somewhere it's like just, don't be a dick that's. The god. Big. Because, somebody's, definition, of being a dick it's gonna be there's gonna be definitely varied, levels like I wasn't being a dick this, is different, like you, have to kind of spell it out for people like you have to say like don't. Do this like don't, be self-promotional, what and also self-promotional. Specify. What, is being self promotional self, promotional is posting, links putting, up links to your site sharing. An opportunity. Then that, leads to you know a free opportunity that leads to a paid offer Oh a webinar, that you just happen to be offering that will be interesting, but you have to sign up for it like they're. Like I've seen it all or here's. The thing - like someone will write a really, awesome post, and then they just happen to drop a link in it's like don't. Drop a link offer. The value and if, people want to link they will ask for it and then you'll be able to do it in the comments, but anybody that just right off the bat like writes this awesome, post and then, just like drops, their link in that. To me as a community manager you're it's like nails on chalkboards, like. Why why, did you drop the link just. Leave, the link out and. We'll reach out to you people will probably, like look like this is another good point too for, anybody that's in a Facebook group and, you want to authentically.
Promote. Yourself but, not be a dick just. Add massive. Value and make sure that your Facebook profile, tells. People what you do and what your website is. Daddies, will creep your profile, my. Crop moment once again the. Fascinating. Hmm. It's, it's a very interesting point and. Again. Thank you to my community for not doing this stuff and putting me through this time don't. Worry it's. Like if. You're someone that's behaving like that it's repulsive like it's actually putting, people off working with you when in reality all you have to do is just be clean with your approach and. It wouldn't work to have. Seriously. It's it's, fast, it and I see, it all the time it's actually really funny because now when I scan a community, I'm. Really, like, cynical. I don't know what the word is but it's like it's. Like I have this like radar. Now for like levels of self-promotion on my hmm, okay. Like that no we're OK or that's. Inappropriate, or what are you doing here like sometimes, I just laugh I'm just like really like, come on like it's just sometimes. It's so blatant where you're just like delete, and you'd and this is a good point some, people feel like uncomfortable about just blatantly, deleting posts and they're not saying anything if it's, blatantly, self-promotional. It's, getting deleted and there's no explanation because, not saying anything is much stronger than, actually, saying something because. If I delete something and then say hey, I removed your post because it was self promotional, please read the guidelines. It's. Like I'm spending. A lot of my time doing that but if I just delete your post and then you see that the post is gone I'm, sending a very strong message that hey. Like. No and they, know everybody, knows when they're there like writing their posts and they feel a little bit uncomfortable but oh it's okay, no. That's. The thing it's. Interesting was, it concern for me because something that does come up I really think that in communities people want to know what other people do or who, they are so, I've actually made a member directory, so we have one that lists everyone up because, you. Know some people with their Facebook profiles, wasn't, very helpful you couldn't work it out and I understand, it you know your privacy, settings and all the rest but, um phenom the rest I was like well I think we'll have our own directory for members so, that's. A fantastic I mean that is a fantastic, way to give, your members what they want and need and avoid. People. Kind of getting all like how can I secretly. Slip, in this, is my business what. I do like, because. Again people can smell it a mile, away at, least I can I'm pretty sure other members feel it too like you know they see you. Kind of talking and dropping a link and it's like well why. Like, it's just like, you said it it doesn't make people, want to work with you if you're self promoting like don't, do it just help this is the thing just authentically. Help people, be, a good person and it'll. Come to you like people will be attracted, to you just because you're, authentically. Helping.
Other People just. Do that be consistently. Helpful, to other people and, good. Shits gonna come your way, absolutely. It's. A really fascinating topic. We. Could go on about this for days and days and it's funny it's funny before this episode started you said oh if you want to do two episodes I'm really cool with that I'm like. Will. We get through one and I might know what, the irony is here is where an hour in and we haven't even done. The. Challenge I have is I feel like we could go anothe