Business of Business | Shri. K.V. Kamath In Conversation with Sadhguru
And. Delighted, to, be in that conversation with, Satguru, what. We'll do today is explore. Over the. Next hour. Or so what. I call moral, dilemmas, moral. Dilemmas. Various, sorts, particularly. With reference to the. Corporate world and, maybe. Give. A different. Look, to it again different, look. To this whole context. From. The point, of view water what I'd call a mystics eyes. Thank. You. Before. I venture, there, and I want to just share, with you you. Know my. First experience, of, seeing. Some guru that was on a flight. To dowse, and. He. Was sitting a, few seats, ahead of me and I. Was struck. Came. To my mind was who. Is this mystic because I could, not place him as an Indian because the. Way he has happened well, you know it, is each, one's eyes, and how you behold, that somebody and. It's. Only later that I got to know that this, was that good. Jaggi Vasudev sometime. I take off the brown coat yeah and maybe you know. He. Has that he, has that ability, I would say in, any case that. Was that year 2006. If I remember. He. Spoke of something very interesting. He, spoke of something. Which we called inclusive. Economics. Inclusive. Economics, wasn't, a phrase anybody, used six. Years back. Inclusive. Development. Inclusiveness. We, are talking of in the last three years or so but. Six, years back when this, was. Postulated. By the. Guru he also went on to explain that this. Is what. Holistic. Development is all about and that, all the tools required for that are in place but. I want you to start. With this because, it's a positive nor does it okay. See. The. Because. We're talking about business the. Purpose of business or. The, purpose or the goals of big business, is to expand. You. Can expand, in two different ways one, is by conquest. Another. Is by embrace I can. Conquer you or, I can embrace you both ways you will become mine if. I embrace you you will become mine willingly and I. Will have better use. Of you in every possible way I am talking business not this does my personal thing. But. If I concur, you I will still have you but, I have to sit on top of your head and make. You do things and you will, do everything possible to make my life miserable. Yes. Or not roof absolutely. So, people. Are trying to conquer and their. Businesses, and their activity, is doing, everything possible to make them miserable and you can see it on their faces. Successful. People are showing miserable, faces. Which. Is a wrong message to send to, the world particularly, to the youth if. You send a message that, success is misery, you're. Destroying humanity. Success. Is the sweetest thing that can happen to human being but, now you, take the. Most successful, 10,000, people on the planet you. Will see there, are an, epitome of tension, and anxiety and, misery. You. Are sending a completely, wrong message this, you can see took such a bad turn in, United States of America in the 60s, the. So-called corporates. Brutally. Wanting to grow conquer, the world set. Such an image of themselves, the. Youth thought it's better to sit in the street corner and smoke pot and. It's. A better way to live at least you're happy you're, not causing any damage to anybody this. Is a horrible way to exist so. It's extremely important. That successful. People, send a clear message, success. Is a beautiful, thing it, is not a suffering, it is not a miserable thing to do in your life if, this has to happen. Your, expansion, has to happen by embrace, not. By conquest. So. Inclusion. Is. The is what you're trying to do but you're trying to include by conquest because every business wants to expand I think. Somewhere because. Of the way today, the financial, markets, and whatever is happening lot. Of businesses, have lost this sense that what they want is expansion, they're, only looking at their quarterly balance sheets which. Is not allowing them to expand its to short-term for expansion. Very. Big visionary, businesses, I'm sure ICS a bank has looked at it this way otherwise it wouldn't be what it is today, people. Are looking at expansion, those, who are really looking for expansion they're not looking at what is somebody's, opinion, every quarter you don't care what somebody thinks about you people. Think all kinds of things about me the last 30 years, but. In. The last four years just to take last four years as a segment in the last four years we, have expanded over 20.
Times Over we multiplied, not expand, this. Is because of a huge embrace, not, because of conquest, when, you have expanded, by, embrace. You. Don't become miserable with the expansion you become joyful and wonderful with the expansion. I. Want, to maybe, stay on dowels for one more wrap and, be round before. We move on you. Have seen dowels from 2006. Till. After the, crash of 2008, and, just. Before we came here we were having a short chat and you said you. Addressed, depression. In, the post, 2008. Period. And of course you, have seen the euphoria, of the preceding, years. Euphoria. To depression. How. Do how do, these mood swings happen, and. How. Does one balance, out your one's, views as it were I think. One reason is a. Lot. Of people have not strived, for their success, they. Are successful, by chains, that's. Why therefore ik and depressed. If. They had crafted their success. You. Would know the mechanics of success, it. Doesn't matter what's happening today you know where you're going anyway. Nobody. Can take that away from you, so. People who do not know the mechanics of what they're doing the. Fundamentals, of what they're doing by, chance because of situational, help. Somebody. Becomes successful, he is your phoric he thinks he's it they're hitting a lottery they're not successful. Hitting. A lottery is not success, it's just chance. So. Because, of that you see too much of these swings and as. I was telling you they. Asked me to handle this session called. Recession. And depression. It. Was 2008. Just then. Recession. Had moved into the European, and American market. All, these, billionaires, were carrying long faces so. I am supposed to spread it a little bit. So. I said, listen is, bad enough, do. You need depression, and top of it. You. Always dreamed you want to walk the beach you want to swim you want to go play golf okay. This is the time less work it's. Not the end of the world and. Above. All the way we have structured, our economic. Process. In. The planet is such, that. If we fail we, will be depressed, if, we succeed, we will be damned I said. I prefer that you're depressed. We. Because, our economy is all about more not about all I, think. The business leaders, people. Who have reached a certain level of success, should. Shift their attention from, more to, all all, would naturally, be inclusive inclusiveness. More. Is taking. All, is, an embrace. Going. On to something. That we see across India, today. The. Mood of negativity in a, way it is a continuum. Of this depression that we are looking at but. This collective, mode of negativity. How. Do you look at it and how. Do you actually I think you meet only the people in the boardrooms. Right. Now a lot of people too many people including the, business leaders and the media, everybody, is constantly, talking about India, will become a superpower, which, makes me very apprehensive. You. Don't have legs and you want to climb Mount Everest. It. Sounds really apprehensive to me because we are going to flounder with this kind of attitude. Everybody. Is talking about India becoming superpower, you need, to understand, this in this country right now for 1.2, billion people you. Neither have the roads not the airports, nor the infrastructure, now the homes not, even enough trees or not enough in Reverse not even even a piece of sky for, 1.2, billion people. The. Only thing that we have is we have a population.
We. Done well on that. We. Have a huge population if. You transform, this population, into. A very competent, focused, inspired, population. Yes we could be a superpower, in a different way then, you understand, superpower in normal sense superpower, means people. Have always thought military, might and something else but, we will be a superpower, because, just, about anywhere, you go already we, see that but in a much bigger way every, company on the planet could be led by an Indian that is superpower. They're. All over the place, somebody. Was selling see this is bharat mahabharata. Elsewhere else. It's. In a different place so. I know. There's one segment of people who are constantly Moroz, about, the markets going down markets, going up and stuff there's, another level of people who. Are too, to. Lose. In their thought that they think we are going to become a superpower we, don't have the fundamentals I don't have to tell this to you you know better, we, don't have the fundamentals, to become any kind of superpower, it's just too much of nonsense, our problem, is we're too dramatic, in our minds, we, exaggerate, our success, we exaggerate, our failures, it. Doesn't matter the crowd sees it that way it's alright but people in positions, of responsibility and. Leadership, should. Be able to see what is the reality, not, imagining. Things about, being superpower, not, imagining, things about, going into dumps both are not true we, are at a threshold. We. Are sitting with a possibility. A huge possibility. In front of us but. Between, possibility. And reality, there is a distance, do, we have the necessary commitment. Strength. And focus to walk the distance that's a big question. Is. Every, one of us working. Towards, creating in, India which, will have the necessary focus. And commitment to walk the distance from possibility. To reality, this. Is still a question mark which. Way we will go we don't know, what. I hear, is saying very rightly so is we. Have this ability to. Exaggerate. Our success, exaggerated. Or failures, and maybe. Miss. That. Big step that we are to take village, we like drum which, we, need to do that. Moving. On to something else which in the corporate, world I find. People. Hesitate to say and particularly, in today's a fast changing world well things, are changing a dramatic, pace. Three. Simple words I don't know, to. Be honest and admit it I've. Seen you talk. At talk on this and I've been fascinated by what you have said but, in the corporate context, I think it is very much. Something. That we are yet, to embrace the, ability to say I don't know your. Thoughts. See. The reason the only reason a, human. Being will. Seek to know something, is because he realizes, that he does not know. If. He does not realize that he does not know, there. Will be no longing to know there. Will be no seeking, to know and definitely. There will be no knowing it's. Not possible whether it is spiritual, seeking or. Any other kind of knowledge you. Will seek only because, you realize you do not know if. You think you know everything or, you believe you know everything, you. Will be just too full of yourself that's, all and. That. Is a huge problem that's, a very big problem. Though. We, have a culture, we cultivated. Humility. That, you see all over the place everybody, is like this only but still too full of yourself when you bend nothing, goes out of your head. It. Doesn't make any space I'm saying. Because. My head is open that's why I'm bandaged, can you see I. I. Think, that this. Is something. That we have to understand, and acknowledge if. We are to grow as a nation, in the in a business context, one. Is the ability to say I don't know maybe in today's context. Recharge. Yourself every, year in those. Areas which you don't know and then proceed, this. Brings me to another, corporate. Question. A problem. Inability. To have a clear mind you. Know perception, clarity, as you, know you have put it in your, words and applied, to what, we do, how. Exactly, do we look at it and what is it that you, think will stand business. In good stead, see. When, you say you're a leader. Why. Would thousand, or ten thousand, or a million people, think you're a leader because. You are able to see something that others are not able to see you have a little higher perch for. Some reason for whatever reason, or you have a third eye or whatever. You. Have some. For. Some reason, you are able to see something that everybody. Else is not able to see that's the only reason why you will naturally become a leader unless, you.
Are A Maharaja son, and we have to bear with you. If. You have grown, up to be a leader that's the only reason, because. You are able to see something if, you are able to do something that others cannot do you, would be probably an engineer, you would be something else and something else but you are able to see something, that others are not able to see that's why you become a leader a, certain. Vision, a certain insight, into, the nature of things what, people will see tomorrow you are able to see, today. Not. As a prediction, but, you are able to see it and you are able to plan to get there before others, get there that is that's what makes you leader. And now, if they don't have clarity of mind today I see, that wherever. I go particularly in the corporate, areas. I would like to call it a corporate world. Because. It's, my endeavor to see that there is only one world, that. People, don't want creating, their own words but in the corporate atmosphere. One. Thing that you see is people are tense and anxious because. They think they, are goal driven. You. Want mangos in your tree if. You sit there and do mango, meditation, it's not going to come. If. You nourish the roots you don't you never even looked up never even thought of a mango if you take care of the roots one. Day mangoes will land on your head whether you want it or you don't want it, it. Will just happen anyway, but, that whole thing is gone today everybody, has become goal-oriented. And new-age, meditation. Teachers are telling you don't bother about doing anything just imagine. And it will happen you. Don't have to do anything. Yes. It's going on isn't it just, think about it and it will happen okay, just fanciful, things which. Sometimes work the problem, is by, chance, many. Things work all right, if. You simply throw a stone a mango will fall that, doesn't mean you can do it once again so. If you somehow get, to someplace when. I say somehow, when. You are not able to manage your own mind how, are you going to manage ten thousand people's minds because, in some way leadership, means you, are able to draw these thousand.
People And take them in one direction you. Are able to inspire these people, or instigate. These people are like, a Pied Piper if you walk they walk behind you because somehow you captured. Their minds, and they, decided, that your, way of thought and your way of looking is better than their own it's not a simple thing for people. To think that, your, way of thinking is better than theirs you will have to prove it in a thousand different ways otherwise they are not going to surrender their own way of thinking, and feeling and whatever so. For you to prove that first. Thing is you must be in charge of yourself when. You do not know how to take. Charge of your mind, your energies your body and yourself, how. Will you take charge of them and they, are not safe in your hands I would, say anybody. Who scattered, all over the place in his book in his hands nobody is safe such. A person should, be one. Of the department's he should not be a leader. If. He has to be a leader in. His lap everybody should be safe, then. Only he can be a leader that is possible, only if you have taken charge of yourself lot. Of people have gotten there somehow can I tell you a joke please. Please. And. A. Certain day a, bull. And a pheasant, were grazing, Bull. Was chomping the grass pheasant, was picking off picking, ticks off the bull partnership, the, huge tree at the edge of the field the pheasant very nostalgically, looked at the tree and sad, Oh alas there was a time I could fly to the topmost branch of the tree now I do not have enough strength in my wing even to get to the first branch the. Bull very nonchalantly, said that's no issue, just. Eat a little bit of my tongue every day within. A fortnight you'll get there pheasant. Said come on what kind of rubbish is that the. Bull said really try and see the whole humanities on it. So. Very hesitantly. The, pheasant started pecking at that down and, low. On the very first day it reached the first branch of the tree within. A fortnight it reached the topmost branch, of the tree just beginning. To enjoy the scenery, an. Old farmer I was rocking on his rocking, chair saw a fat old pheasant, sitting on top of the tree pulled, out his shotgun and shot the bird off the tree the. Moral of the story is, many. Times even. Can get you to the top but, it never lets you stay there. The. Phrase, the. Phrase was coming at the end you know, the. Joke really was cracked. I. Know I know, good. Always says this that drama. Is important, so. You, know Midway, I think, we all thought the joke was already, cracking but. We didn't hear the crack yeah we heard it crack at the last minute. Slightly. More difficult subject, for us I'm sure not. For you honestly. Egos. Because, this is something that we deal with every. Day in the, corporate world you have, egos, across. Colleagues you. Build you. Know organization. Structures, I call them cages because very, quickly it is like you. Are in your cage and you're protecting, your cage and you don't want anybody to come anywhere near it and so on and so forth how does, one deal with the egos or. Maybe. A larger. Question. How. Does this whole thing arise and how do you where, does this conclude, you, want a business center or a specialist, no I want a spiritual. Business. Answer we try to try nor Krone crude way but, I think we. Know how to try from. Your eyes how, is this how. Is this handle. See. A, lot of people have taken, on this mode. Whenever. They do something nasty. They. Would like to blame it on you but. You are not willing to take it, so. They blame it on mr. ego. Where. Is this mr. ego he only comes in when you're nasty. When. You're beautiful when, you're joyful when you're loving when you're wonderful, mr.. Ego is absent, only. When you're nasty, you. Want to put it on somebody else because you haven't found anybody else you have invented, one mr. ego. There's. No such thing it. Is just that human, beings are right now in a condition, where sometimes. They are pleasant, sometimes, they're unpleasant, sometimes, joyful, sometimes, miserable, sometimes, wonderful. Sometimes, horrific. This. Is what they are is. There anybody here who is, 24, hours good Oh. Oscillating. This moment you're wonderful next moment you're nasty, isn't it so. Because. Of this volatile. Enough. Nature, because, it's not established. In. The, yoga, visa yoga Sakura Carmen first, established, in your dog yoga then. Act that's. Not been done first is action when, your first action, this is what happens because. You're unsettled. You. Are going from pleasantness. To unpleasantness, just about any time its smallest instigation. You. Have invented mr. ego see. If, you say. Me. And my ego reside, within this body, what. It means is there, are two of you.
If. There are two of you that. Means you're either schizophrenic, or. You're possessed. You. Need either a psychiatrist. Or an exorcist. So. There are no two people there. Is only one person here you are an individual. If. You are an individual, what it means is the very word individual. Comes from the word indivisible. That means you cannot be further divided. If. You are an individual, you, understand. That, I am sometimes so, nice sometimes. So horrible if, you just realize this, would. You want to be horrible, you. Will not want to be horrible. But. This one thing they're dodging, by. Inventing, mr. ego, the. People come and ask me said guru what to do with my ego give him to me I'll kill him right now where. Is he no, he comes once in a way. Whenever. You, want to, pass the buck to somebody is always there ready we. Instead, that some people don't go through all that if they become little religious, and if they think they are spiritual, what, they will do is they, will give up their ego and they find God all. The nasty things that they do they say it's God's will. They're. Taking instructions, from him so you can't argue. People. Are wage wars they've done horrible things to each other the, nastiest, possible, things they have done to each other because they were taking instructions, from God. Others. Are taking instructions I'm a local guy. Which. Is mr. Eagle says. Go I think. The. Corporate world we have, to do something painful a, lot of times, build. Businesses, and then destruct. Businesses, and. Jack. Welch was probably one of the Masters he said that if you're not number one or two in any, business line that we have we, are going to cut you I think he was a brave. Leader and I built a great company, not, all leaders I find it easy to, nurture. Something, and, in your phrase, say. Nurture and butcher we, may not use that phrase but it's, exactly what we have to do but we fail at it I want. Your views. On this I think. In some, of my. Books I think, one of the courts that I have they, are put I think they printed, I don't, know if they're still using it at one time they were using it I. Said. A guru is a butcher. And. A very difficult butcher, because he has to lovingly nourish something, and then when it's ripe he has to slaughter it. So. This is a this is a thankless. Job because. You nurture something, when it's ripe you, have to cut it open. So. If corporate, leaders are doing it oh they're very close to me, but. I think they're not doing it they're getting very attached to what they're nourish and they don't do it when, they have to do it that. Is because. They. Have too much of themselves in what they do see. The. Beauty of action, any action, that we perform, in the world the, beauty the pleasure and the joy of action. A human, being will know only. When he has no need for activity. If. I sit here like this with my eyes closed I can sit here till I fall dead I won't. Have any interest it doesn't matter what drama is happening I won't open my eyes if I have to if, I don't have to but. At the same time right now on 20, hours a day you. Know three and sixty five days I'm on and on because. Something needs to be done so are, you performing, action, because it's needed to. The situation, in which you exist because, the action is always about the situation, but, right now that's not how it is with most people the action is about them. They. Are trying to make themselves something, with action, this is the wrong way to approach you putting the cart before the horse see. Your action is actually an expression of who you are instead, of that people, are trying to perform, action, and become something you first. Become something and then you act in the world these, problems, will not exist what is needed you will simply do you, will neither call it nurturing, or butchering or anything you. Will simply do what is needed right. Now so, many unnecessary, things, human beings are doing on this planet because. It's about them it's not about the situation, which in which they exist. So. Very right I think, the. Corporate context, is probably the most difficult thing for most people to do they. Probably develop, some attachment, which they. Cannot let, go and. They're like grandmother's the grandmothers like. Grandmothers so they were ready to die but. Once the grandchild, comes they don't want to die. Wonderful. Wonderful. Again. In the corporate context. You learn and you devote. A new work. You. Know my, interpretation, of. GaN, bhakti, karma, is.
That Right or we, need to sequence it differently in a corporate context, or is. There something else that we need to understand, from these three words because they, hold a lot of importance, in. A whole lot of things that you. Have actually, talked about and I'm trying to seek, you. Know what this, how. This could be used in a corporate context. So. This is relevant for any context. Whether. You are a corporate leader or a political leader or a spiritual, leader of whatever or, you're just. One. Little thing you have started you're not a leader of anything it doesn't matter who you are for everybody, it's relevant in the sense you can. Only work, with what you have, you. Cannot, work with something that you do not have, you. Can work towards, something, that you do not have but, you cannot work with what, you do not have am. I clear. We. Can work towards something that we do not have but. We cannot work with what we do not have we can only work, with what we have so. Right now and I say what we have the, only things that you have as a human being right now is your, body your. Mind your emotion. And your energies these, are only four things you have rest. Is all imagination. Imagination. Helps. To. Sleep well tonight, you. Know you're. You're tensed. Up because, of whatever is happening in the corporate. World or, in, the share market or. Whatever else then, you say this is all God's will you can sleep to go tranquilizer. You. Know when Marx Midmark said it. Is the opium of the masses. People. Took it as something negative it. Is not a negative thing lot. Of people are able to sleep only because they believe in God otherwise they won't be able to sleep. This. Is a very inexpensive, psychiatry. You, understand really, if. You go to the modern psychiatrist. He. Can take only one client at a time and, he needs furniture. This. Is an inexpensive, psychiatry. Wherever, you are whichever, part of the world nobody. Is around you you say God is with me you can sleep well tonight. So. Without. This most, Minds would break it, will take an extremely. Clear. Mind, to exist, here, without. The, help of an outer agency. All, others, need it so, I don't wish to destroy the support, for anybody but. You. Must decide are you looking for solace in your life or, are you looking for a solution in your life if. You're looking at solutions, there. Is another way to approach if, you're looking for solace just, believing something always helps. So. When you are a leader I believe. And. It's. Eroding these days looking at many leaders but, when, somebody. Says he's a leader I believe, he's a solution. For. Millions. Of people who are not able to find a solution by themselves, for whatever reasons. Yes. That's, what a leader is supposed to be but. Right now in. This country you, can become a leader if you be create a problem. You. Don't have to find any solutions. Please. Don't take my advice nobody should take my advice. Because. Your Mumbaikars I'm afraid of you, see. If you want to become a leader by tomorrow morning, you want to be a recognized, leader by. Midday by the time the midday paper, comes by twelve o'clock tomorrow you. Want to be a recognized, leader in Mumbai, just you. Know hire one. Segment you don't need a whole hall one, segment of these people maybe 100, people go. Half. Of you block one main artery, ceiling. Why, it's, be easy to block you. Block the ceiling and block. One important, rail route by. Midday, tomorrow by, the time midday comes out you will be a leader in Mumbai you. Build. Ten, ceilings, you will not be a leader in this country you. Just block, one or you break one instant. So. This is something that has to change, in the nation's consciousness, that, people who create problems, we are identifying.
Them As leaders this. Is a hangover, from, the satyagraha. Days of Matt McGann D but. Matt McGann D was putting spanner in the works for, an occupation force. Every. Day he will call for. Non-cooperation. Satyagraha. He will fast and putting, spanner in the works essentially, their. Industry, their business if it flourishes too much he will put spanner in the works so, that there is an impetus for them to leave so, that it's not too lucrative, for them to stay forever that's. Understandable, it was fantastic, technology, without killing people without fighting, a war an effective. Way of doing, it and he did it successfully, that's great but. That hangover, is not gone in us today even today. I, see. Chief Minister's who are fighting for the right to call for a bunt I'd. Stopping. The nation is one kind of technology, making, it happen is another kind of technology, but. There is going to be respite, for us, because. This. Whole leadership business, if you look at it. Say. A few hundred years ago the. Most dominant. Leadership, on the planet was always religious, leadership. Then. Slowly, transited. Into, the hands of military, leadership, from. There in the last 150, years gradually, it moved into the hands of democratic, leadership and, now. In the last two decades and particularly. In the coming two decades you will see leadership. Will largely move, into the hands of economic, leaders, business. Leaders they. Will dominate already, it's beginning to happen so. We have moved, from. The. Shackles, of religious. Dogma, to. The tyranny of military. Leadership to. The confounded. Nests of democratic. Leadership, now. Will the business leadership deliver, that's a question. Very. Very good question and that leads me to the next question. That. Is and I know you are very interesting, using its greed. Agreed. I'm talking, off in the corporate context. And we'll explore many hues as we, go along of greed. But I'm sure, you. Know we would all. Very. Curious to hear your views. See. Once we have, chosen there, was a time about 20 years ago 25, years ago when India. Was watching. That we are a socialist, country. Socialism. Is. A, watered, down version of, communism. When. You don't have the courage to be a communist. You. Become a socialist. Which. Has always been one of the serious problems with our nation that we don't have the courage to say, who we are what, we are what, do we intend will.
Always Beat about the bush always, beat about the bush. Which. Leaves everybody in confusion. You know because nobody knows where we want to go. So. Communism. As an idea is, a fantastic. Idea. Karl. Marx. Might. Have known lot about economics. But. He knows very little about human beings. He. Predicted. That, the. Richest nations in the world will become communist. People. Will share their wealth with each other and how, wonderful it's going to be the world it's, a fantastic, dream, it's. A beautiful, dream it's. One of the best dreams the world has dreamed that, everybody, will be equal everybody will have everything nobody, has to you, know it's by our, need not, by our greed you. May produce a billion. Dollars I may produce, nothing but you are willing to share with me there's, a very beautiful story incident. Which happened when Mark, Twain visited, he, was so excited, Wow. Richard. Going to share their wealth with the poor and everybody. Is going to be equal equal opportunity, for everyone this, is fantastic. Everybody. Wanted with lots of thinkers, and authors from America, traveled to. Russia because, they were so excited, this, is it the world is going to change. So. Mark Twain was walking in a country road a country's. Russian, gentleman was walking in front of him with, two hands, under his arms. He. Ran. Up to him caught up and his, head, comrade. Are. You, really. A communist he said yes I am I am a party member. He. Said is it true that if, you have two, bungalows, you, will give away one to your comrade, of course, if, I have two bungalows I will give away one to my comrade I am a party member I mean. Office. If. You have two carriages, will. You give away one to somebody who needs it of course, I am a party member I am the president, in my village I have, to and I will. You. Have two hens will you give away one of them what. The hell that's all I have so. People. Wanted, to give away what, they don't have. So. When. The poor when the poorest, of the poor on the planet, started talking about communism. Communism, became, ugly, it's. Such a great idea if, the rich and the wealthy and, the capable, had taken it, world. Would have become an ashram yes. There. Would have been a perfect, spiritual, setting really, if, the rich had taken it now. The poor took up the idea. What. They could not earn they, want to take it by beating. Banditry. Became, a philosophy. What. Should have been a fantastic, process. Of sharing. And giving, and an, embrace of humanity, turned, into an ugly idea, most horrific things, were done. During. Joseph, Stalin Stein, they. Say over. 27. Million Russians, died this. Is three times the number that died in World War two. That. Many people Russian. People died. Because. The. Poor are trying to share something. That they don't have. If. The rich had shared what. A wonderful, world it would have been and, the.
Poorest, Of the poor talking, about communism, made it ugly if, the richest, and the most capable, on the planet had spoken about communism, hero to be the greatest idea so. We gave up that idea and now, we chose. Capitalism. Somebody. Very prominent, in the world declared capitalism. Is dead you know. So. I. Was, with him recently and he was talking see they printed like this headlines that I said capitalism is dead why. It, was called capitalism, ease because. Capital. Was only with certain people at that time now. You have come ICICI, Bank I can, also have capital. Somebody. Else can also have capital, this, was not the reality of the world 100 years ago only a few people on the planet were, capable of capital, nobody. Else had capital, so, it became titled, as capitalism, now. We are calling it market, economy, driven by the market, market. Means profit. No. Profit, you shouldn't talk about a marketplace. And when. You have set up such a system, there, is no room. In. Your vocabulary there's, no room for the word greed. If. You use the word greed what, it means is your operating, market economy, with. Communism, going. Around in your head. Only. If you're a communist, you can talk about greed if, your market, economy, don't talk about greed talk, about better loss, if. Somebody, is making a billion dollars per day let's. Tax him. 900. Million you can tax him and that will be distributed, anyway. But. Enough to give him incentive, to go on not to take, away his spirit, so. This is how capitalism is, managed here, you don't talk about I this whole corporate social, responsibility, I think it's funny, it is just an eyewash the. Instead of that the government, if the, administration, if it has the necessary sense, you, can bring the right kind of policies, where businesses, can grow unbridled, but, it, will naturally benefit, the rest of the society, this, can be done with simple laws. Taxation. And other kinds of loss business. Loss can, do this there is no need to talk about service, there's, no need to talk about greed. Everybody. Can live with dignity because, if you are the receiving, end of the service you'll. Lose your dignity if, you are at the giving end of the service you go to heaven both are wrong. What. I hear that guru saying is profit. Is a good motive and if, you call. It greed that greed is good and, it. Is good that is something that. Profit. Is something that no if I look at the definition, of greed what, is greed. See. For. Somebody, who is walking. To. His workplace or his home somebody. Who rides a bicycle and, refuses. To take him on the bicycle, is greedy man. Somebody. Who is riding a bicycle, sees, a man driving a Maruti car and he thinks he is greedy just. Single man right driving a Maruti car he could take me his family, and my family in the Maruti car because Indians are able to squeeze. A man. Was driving a Maruti car when a. Mercedes. Or a BMW whizzes. Past him, he says vulgarity. Of greed, a, man. Who's driving BMW. Looks, at a man who is driving a Bugatti and, he thinks that is greed so, who is to set this definition, for what his greed I am, saying once you have chosen market, economy, there, is no room, for the talk ability in your life you. Understand, greed, is the driving force, now. It, is for the loss to manage, the grid so that you are greed benefits, everybody else, there's.
A There's an African. Lord that is a saying when. The lion feeds everybody. Else gets fed. So. If you're a lion you have a big capability. When, you feed it is the loss which should make it in such a way if you make profit, everybody, should live well, instead. Of talking about greed and service and corporate social responsibility. I don't. Know why they deviating, themselves into all this so. Stay focused on, maximizing. Profitability. Yes, acts appropriately and, let. Everybody yeah grow. For. For, corporate for the corporate world slightly. More difficult question. Integrity. Because, that is something that is, today. Seen. As at a premium. Exploring. This whole issue of, integrity. A little more corporate. World you come across what my. Shades of grey, are. These artificial, like the ego or are they real, and what. Drives. Them and how do you actually put, them to rest because, this, is surfacing more, and more and the excuses well. It was great so I chose. A particular, path. See. In. Human life whether. It's personal, life or, corporate. Work. Life or social. Life, you. Cannot eliminate the, grey, but. The grey areas, become very dominant, in a society where. The laws are not crystal, clear for. The grey areas, to be reduced. We must simplify. The loss we, must make the loss in such a way that everybody, can understand, the law only. Then it can be implemented do, you if you are in the highest level of banking, do, you really believe you understand, all the laws that are there in banking in India let. Me ask I know you don't. Because. You said it, because. Nobody can understand, this it. Is such a confused. Confusing. Nonsense. That you leave so much gray area now. The only thing you can't read is gray when. Half the street is gray you will naturally go. So. Basically are saying yes. It is you. Need to be. Clear, in your mind and, take the partner whatever, what. I'm saying is we are leaving the law making as I, said we, are in the transition where. Economic. Leadership is going to become more important, in the coming years it. Is time there economically, there's significant, leaders like you take this step that you have a role in the economic the, formation. Of economic, things in the country right. Now political. Leaders who have no clue about what it is are trying to do it you. Look at the budget it's a political statement it, has no economic consequence, it's a sad thing a booming. Economy is, being systematically dismantled. That's how I see it that's my understanding I don't know how you see it a very. Booming, economy, is, systematically. Being dismantled, it's. Not necessarily. Because they intend to do it simply, because you have handed, you don't understand, what it is about, economic. Leaders must, take part in making the a cannot economic, loss, now. The reason, why this is not allowed, ease business. And corporate, leaders are seen as WestEd interests so, one important, thing that you mentioned about integrity is, that. The business leader should be able to shed this tag of being a vested interest Umesh, this. Is a high time as I, said earlier will, the business leaders deliver, whether the deliver or not simply, depends, on are they able to shake off the. WestEd interest AG if. You shake off the vested interest AG and build, a trust with the people. Then. You will see economic, leaders, will participate. In making of the economic loss when, that happens, we can reduce the gray areas considerably, and we, can set up highways. To development, not, obstacle, courses a, complex. Problem, because. Once, you bring invested interest, Western. Interests it gets even more complex, I want to go on to something. Again in the corporate world which we are coming up which we face and. You. Have used a phrase. Coming. Going, and staying, we. Are seeing that happen, in. The corporate world with, all the constituents, or major constituents, or people, the. Approach is you come and you think of going even, before you come and. Staying. Is a little, further away from the mind even marriage I should be. So. Your, perspective, is. See. Because as, we. Looked at a corporation, as a whole also is thinking, in terms of short-term, benefits. There. Is no long-term commitment. To what they want to create, individual. Human beings also seeking taking the same attitude. No. Human, being can create anything, truly wonderful if. He is not absolutely. Devoted, towards. What he wants to do whether. It's sports or, economics. Business, spirituality, doesn't matter what whatever. No. Human, being will raise beyond, mediocrity. If, he's not devoted, to, what he's doing. That. Means if you devoted to what you're doing the. Consequence. Of your work is not even a shoe for you what you're doing is the main issue for you, now. Whether you stay in this company that company is not the problem, but, you want to create this is the, problem if you have that focus then.
Where You are doesn't matter benefits, will happen the chances, of you coming and going is very limited, because you would like to because. It takes a certain amount of time to build teams it takes a certain amount of time to make you know I mean, evolved into a trustful position, in any organization. Without. People, around you trusting, you without, people, around you're looking up to you nobody. Is going to achieve anything, significant. Only they may get better salary, if somebody gives them few thousand rupees more somewhere else somewhere else they keep shifting shifting shifting. That. Is their, commodities, in the market you can pick them and drop them as people come and go you also pick and drop because. They don't show that commitment, so. For, those who are aspiring, to be leaders it's, very important, the, question is not about what. Is the consequence, of your work the question is about are, you committed to creating whatever, is valuable for, you whatever you think is truly valuable, in the area of work that you're doing are you committed to this without, this commitment and devotion to what we are doing, humanity. Will not individual. Human beings will not raise beyond, the mediocrity. It will be only about counting, money which, will not mean anything beyond a certain point when. You are earning only 500, rupees a hundred. Rupee increment will mean a lot to you but after some time it, is not something that even concerns, you what, you are creating what, you're doing what the situation, allows you to do whether, you can find expression, to your talent or not is the important, thing instead. Of creating that space of every two years you're shifting here and there you lose out on that possibility of, being, a full-fledged human being instead of that you will settle for being. A commodity in the market, how. Very true a, lot, of times in the business. World as in outside, life, you. Try. To say I'm, doing this for the greater good. And. People. Don't try. To probably. See where to draw the line and. For. Example would. You lie. In. The greater good. Sort. Of situation, I think. Most. People already know it I came, on the television somebody, asked me said guru. Would. You lie when. Would you lie as something like I said whenever necessary. So, they went on playing this thing on the television. Sadhguru says he, will lie whenever it's necessary. So. Obviously, one who says he will not lies lying. Because. The. Definition. Of what is a lie has, to be established within, you. Now. You. Are trying to create something for everybody's, well-being the. Thing is to make it happen you are going by were bull realities, what. Is true and what is not true verbally, is not the thing in, reality, so right now let me ask a simple question to all the audience see, right now, there. Is one new Kasab. Walking. On the street I was there also he, asked, because he wants to find a packed, house for, his work he. Asked, other people in the hall tell, me shall I lie or tell the truth. You. Tell me accordingly. I'll do should. I lie to him or tell him the truth I will lie to him without batting, an eyelid I. Will. If. You don't like it I can't help it that's how I am. It's. A very very, very perceptive. Because. The question is are you ruled, by morality or are, you ruled by your consciousness, of inclusiveness, that's a big question, are you existing, here as a piece of life or are, you in existing, year a psychological. Structures, of morality I'm here, as a piece of life my, life reverberates, with every other life and I will do whatever I have to do for that whatever. So. There is a concept. Of greater good as long as the, good is, something that you. Have you. Can clearly identify. Value. It and then take. A you, want, I wouldn't, say greater good or lesser good, easy. Is. Your action, inclusive, or exclusive that's, all the question is.
Inclusive. Means you, take trying to take everything in word exclusive means you're trying to push, things out whenever. You do something will. This lead to a larger. Sense of inclusiveness or will, this set up exclusiveness. This. Is a question there's only crime on the planet isn't, it. See. Nobody has to tell you nobody. Has to teach any human being do, not cut up your child do, not cut up your own little finger no such thing is needed because what is a part of you with, that you are safe what. You think is not yours that is where the problem is isn't it. Someone. Said you know who he, said the other is help. If. You think there is something other than you you will start creating hell anyway, if. You see everything, as a part of yourself then. Whatever is needed you do. That. Was very well put right. It drove, home the point so well and you. Used such, a an, example, where nobody, felt guilty in taking, a view I'm. Saying this because some. Time back the, same question was posed by a professor in a different way. Same situation he. Says to. Find out where, this person is going to next attack. And all do something we, need to torture it will you torture him or not now. I think the, example that you used brought out the morality, it very clearly that. Is it and inclusive act or is, it not an inclusive act and, you take a view based on that now. We have found better solutions, in India, because. We are a land of truth we, have a truth serum. We. Don't beat them anymore. The, question, I have is still. On in the corporate world one. Big issue that is coming up now is work-life. Balance and. Young. Indian. Is today seized, of this question. As indeed young. People everywhere in the world so. Particularly. In the American value, I see because, I mixed with this you. Know people there in. India it's not so tight, people. Still are looking, between. Both in. The United States it's so strictly. Done. Friday. Morning. They are already in. Their bit shorts in. The office inside. Their trousers. They got beat shots when, they come out of the parking lot they're pulling it out. Because. Friday evening, they don't want to be seen in, the Pinstripe, they. Want to be seen in the big shots, so. This distinction, between, work, and, what. Is considered fun or pleasure is, too stark. That. Is mainly because you're suffering your work. If. You are enjoying your work that, distinction, wouldn't be so stark if. You, if. You went your work like you're going. There to have a love affair. If. It was a love affair for me my work is a lot of it if. I work 20 22 hours a day I don't feel that. You know something has been taken away from me because. You're, doing what you care to do if. You are doing what you really care, to do in your life if you're constantly creating. What you care to do in your life. Everywhere. You go no, matter whether. It's a work space or on the street wherever you're constantly, striving, to create what. You care for then. You will see you. Are like on a holiday always, it's. Always pleasure, sometimes. You need a break from the this. Thing for the physical, body if. You need a break from work I think you need to look at yourself that, means you're doing something that you don't really care for if. You're doing something, that you truly care for why, would you want to break I would like to have 48 hours per day if it's possible but. You know I even a mystic is not you an extension. Just. Clicked on the 24-hour, schedule, I, am, willing and I am energetic enough to go 40. Hours a day, but. They don't give extra time I. Ask, this question of Sadhguru, as you are driving here you. Know. How. Long, is your day very differently and Savio said well it's around. 1820. Hours and, of course if, needed it. Extends, even longer I didn't, know that it extends beyond 24, hours no they don't hear well believe then, it extends way beyond. 24 out for you so even a mystic and a yogi is not given even a minute's extension, that's a problem, the creation. Doesn't. Matter who you are you don't get an extension it gets over it gets over. So. Now. This distinction, between. Work, and pleasure being so stark is not a healthy, thing that. You enjoy the weekend, and you suffer the week. It's. Not a good way to exist. The. Last question I'll ask before we open it up is. To do with social, media and the, rise of social media how, do you see that impacting, our. Lives and, as broadband. Connectivity, grows. And it's growing at a rapid pace in India I think a. Billion. Indians will be connected, and could. Be participants, in this big. Net, as it were I. Even. Met the person who started this Facebook, thing and. You. Know about, about, eight months ago I was telling my daughter show. Me this what is this Facebook, I've never seen. Please. Head out this is not for you.
I Said. Why is it not for me am I so ancient that I can't. Look, up somebody's face. She. Said that's not it. See. That's not it you are anyway connecting, with millions of people just like that so. Why do you need Facebook she said I. Said. But I want to see what it is he said no it's not why you it's just rubbish, and I think it's rubbish why do you go on it. She. Says I have no other way to connect. You. Just connecting, with people like this so. You don't have to go on it I have no other way to connect so I go on it and my. Time on the Facebook is from. I have this he was telling me from the age of 16. Now, she's 22 she said it is reducing, for me because, I am able to connect better as a day go days go by and, when. I was 16 I couldn't connect with anybody so, I was always on the Facebook now, I'm able to connect better so, I'm going off the Facebook gradually, but I'm keeping it like a little bit so, in some way from her her. Wisdom I'm understanding, this some. Way if, you're not able to get along with people who, are sitting right next to you right now you, would like to connect, with somebody far away. It's. Safe. It, is it. Is it doesn't cost anything if, you have to fall in love with the person who is next to you right now it costs life you have to give away a part of your life although it's not going to work you, can love somebody in New Zealand. Every. Day he will write love letters to you you can write love letters to him you don't even know whether it's a man or woman because. We. Do not know how many faces, he has and. It. Is a kind of an entertainment and. A distraction, this. Is not new I want you to understand, people. Have been doing this for a long time, now. This Facebook. Or long-distance, love, affair is not a new thing. People. Have been doing this in their own way without technology. Now. They're using technology I, am NOT saying it's wrong but. I am saying it, may make people very, remote, islands, in the world that, they think sitting, in the room they're having a great relationship with the world without. Ever knowing what human transaction, is because. Every human being has to learn human. Transaction. Because, if you do not learn human tracks in the transaction you will not become a human being you, will become a psychological. Being a mass, of nonsense, in your head and you think that's everything. Only. When you transact, with people, when. There is giving and taking and, the borders, are crossed and somebody irritates. You somebody steps on your leg and somebody steps on your head and there were all kinds of things when. They do all these kinds of things you. Understand, your limitations, your boundaries your struggles. This. Is very needed for human growth, in. Some way in one way it is enhancing, but. In another way it is making lots of people a, kind, of islands so what I would say is technology. Has no. Quality. Of its own it's just an enabling, how. We use it it. Can be it can make us or it can break us so. It is left to the individual, and it is left to the cultures, left, to the educational, institutions. And aged people, who are educators, who are involved in it to, bring this awareness into, the child that, technology. Is made for our well-being not, to destroy ourselves. If. This is, thought, child I think they will use it in a positive way, thank. You we. Can open, this a. Few, questions to the audience. I. Said. In. The making of the loss. Economic. Leaders have, to be included, especially, the economic loss. Once. That happens the next step of how, it is used also. Will. Come into their hands I'm saying the, lawmaking should, not be the prerogative of people.
Who Just from nowhere, they pounds, and just land in the parliament just like that I. Mean. The statistic that they're giving I don't know if it's all genuine statistics, or you can trump up cases against people in this country but. What, they're saying how many people, have I mean yesterday Anna Hazare has been going about giving statistics I don't know if all this is real I can't I would like to believe it's not real number. Of people, against you who murder, cases, are there number. Of people against whom rape cases are there number. Of people who have other kinds, of criminal, cases against, them convictions. Convictions, must be true cases. May be trumped-up, when. You look at this if these people are going to decide how the money is going to be used we very well already know how it's going to be used. Now. The thing, is we, have come to your place we. Have come to a place where people if. People, are not even expecting. Integrity, from. The political leadership. Even. That expectation, is gone even, if. There is somebody with some integrity he comes we already branded him that he's no good anyway he's going to be a thief. If. This has to change, one. Thing is corporately, the leadership. Has to show a different. Dimension of, integrity, and they. Should get a foothold into. The lawmaking process particularly. Concerning the economy, because. Today. Almost everything, in the country is the determined, by an economic process, the. Whole world is like this there, was a time when the countries were divided, in terms of, ideologies. And stuff there's, only one ideology are you successful or not in the economic market, so. When that is that is the mode we have taken I am NOT saying this is an ideal thing when, that's the mode we have taken, we, better succeed, in that see. You you start playing football. And, now. You want to take the ball in your hand and run away that, is destroying the game you. Chosen to play football, in. Football you have to run with the same two feet and also kick the ball which. Makes it a little less efficient, if you take it in your hand and run you could be more efficient, but, you chosen to play football and that's, the way you play it you. Can't change the game in the middle of the game certainly. You can't say I will play some other game okay, now. We have chosen a market economy our business, is to, make it a successful process which. Will bring wellbeing for all the people in the country and in the world if. This has to happen people. Who are who, are the real, participants. In the economic process which. Is the economic. Leaders and the business leaders they, must, have a role in making of the law and to to. Some extent, in the enforcement of the law, otherwise. How thank. You on. That note wealth. To well-being and all the challenges in between and we. Explored, a whole range, of issues. Most. Of them relating. To the. Business world the corporate world a few, of them to. The real life beyond the corporate world and I'm, sure we are all the richer for it thank you very much. For. More videos please subscribe. Press. Bell icon and never miss an update.