"Want More Business? Activate Your Prey Drive!" (Millionaire Secrets) | MICHEAL BURT
Micheal Burt: The kind of emotion that gets you to do big things comes from conflict. Therefore, conflict is actually necessary for your expansion. This is where real passion and emotion comes from. Conflict and fear and anxiety. In a weird, screwed up way, these things are your friends.
Jeff Lerner: Can you kind of define in, you know, your moment, your stump moment of like the prey drive. That's your term. You've coined it. You pretty much own it in the market from what I've seen. Tell us what is the prey drive? Micheal Burt: Prey drive is prevalent in animals, specifically a dog. A dog has a prey drive, and it is the dog's ability to stalk, capture, and kill prey. Well,
over the course of my lifetime, I heard this concept one day, and it occurred to me that what I've really been doing my whole life for 28 years now is activating that prey drive in a human. And so the realization I had is that humans have a prey drive. But it is the ability to see something with the eyes optically or in the mind, the imagination and have the persistence and intensity to pursue it. So basically a lot of my, you know, gifts that I've been given in life are the gifts of association. I can deconstruct a concept, codify the concept, package, and deliver the concept in a way that gets a person to take action. So I took the concept of prey drive which is prevalent in animals, studied the top 20 motivational theories, packaged and deconstructed those theories, and then came to my own qualitative results after 28 years of coaching that there are five activators of a person's prey drive.
There are three components to a person's prey drive. Everybody has a prey drive. It is the ability to see it and pursue it, see a goal and pursue it, see a dream and pursue it, see a person and pursue it. But many people have suppressed that prey drive basically because of satisfied needs and we live in a very complacent nation. So I've kind of positioned myself as a leading authority in activating that drive in people around the world. Jeff Lerner: So I can't wait to dig into that. Isn't it true that you mentioned the nation, you mentioned the United States. I was watching a sitcom last
night, my wife and I, you know, silly show we watched because we're hanging out and it's something to have on while we're talking about, you know, catching up on our day. And in it was this pretty funny scene actually where there was this Russian lady having a baby shower. And she was like, she's like I'm bored. I'm bored. This is boring. These Americans are boring. And anyway, all of
a sudden, a fight broke out and she goes, yay, I'm not bored. It's a Russian baby shower. You know, like and it was just kind of funny because she was basically saying like you Americans are so lame and soft, like somebody hit somebody or something. And then all of a sudden, it was a Russian baby shower. But admittedly, that's a dumb sitcom stereotype, but like it's actually true. We really are so—and the word nice, I actually, etymologically, the origin of the word is actually not a nice origin. We're so nice. What's going on there?
Micheal Burt: We’re complacent. And complacency is a gradual settling to a place of mediocrity. And you know, when moms and dads would drop their daughters off to me at 14 years old, they would all say the same thing. Coach, my daughter's got a lot of potential. Potential is an idea of embryonic
growth. It's an idea of kinetic energy that is stored until utilized. That potential has to be activated. Like it's cute to tell a person at 14, they got potential. It is not cute at 42. But how many 42 year olds have potential, but they don't have a coach. They don't activate. So they live a very static, complacent life. Okay? So when you really step back and say, well, what's really going on here is that we live a good life in America. For the most part,
we have good results. We live in a good house. We maybe have a good marriage. We have good kids. We have a good career. And if you study motivation and prey drive, what actually suppresses that prey drive is satisfied needs. See, satisfied needs never motivate, only unsatisfied needs. So what happens is the prey drive is activated. That’s the first step of prey drive. You watch something, you see something, you know, you interview very successful people. I'm sure that just interviewing those people activates your
prey drive. But that's just part one. This is the easy part to me. Part two and three is the persistence of prey drive, the long obedience in the same direction, the mastery that it takes to do something for years, to show up and be great. And then the intensity to attack something with veracity and force and energy. Those are the two parts that are missing in America. So we live very static lives. We have a good life. We don't have a great life. We've got a good life. We've got a good job. We don't have a great job. We make
good money, but we don't make great money. And so that's kind of the America that we live in. And then something comes along, maybe guy like me and activates the prey drive. And you say, I do have another gear. I do want to go pro. I do want to leave my amateur desires behind. I do want to live an
extraordinary life. And then the prey drive is activated. So what I do is I break it down and then I deconstruct it. And then I try to deliver it in a way with a cadence and energy and conviction that a person says, man, this dude's right. I got a whole other gear I ain't playing in. Jeff Lerner: Yeah, it's interesting. And I have this thing that I say, and I feel
like you’ll totally relate to it. I say, I feel like I have like a mental condition, like a challenge. And it's frankly, an obstacle in my life sometimes which is I'm incapable of seeing people as they are. I only see people as they could be. Micheal Burt: Right. Jeff Lerner: And which means a lot of times, you're hanging out with me, and I'm not talking to you. I’m hanging out with some version of you that might be
like eight steps beyond because you just haven't gone there yet. And some of the stuff I say, you might be like, I don't know what he's talking about or who he's talking to because that doesn't mean anything to me. And I'm like well, it could, it should, it will. You know, let's go there. That's the only conversation worth having. But you talk about complacency. So I have two
questions. One is you say everybody has a prey drive. Does everybody have it in equal measure? And then, well, actually, let's start there. And then I'll say my second question. Micheal Burt: Well, I'm a faith based person. And so, you know, sometimes I refer back to the Bible. Sometimes I look at that. Does everybody have talent in equal measure? I would say no. Some people have more talent, natural talent
than others. Although there's lots of theories that would dispute that it's not just talent. Right? It's long obedience. I mean there's a book out there called Talent’s Never Enough which I think makes a good argument that Tiger Woods was not actually more talented than other golfers. He just started
earlier. I mean he was on a golf course at seven months old. If you were on a golf course at seven months old and you did that for 18 years, how good would you be at golf? You know? So to me is prey drive in a person. I use my wife as an example.
My wife did drugs every day from 21 to 24. I didn't know her during that period of her life. I was out there being a basketball coach. And she had no direction, no guidance, no real purpose, no focus, no prey drive. Her company,
Verizon Wireless, sent her to one of my workshops at 30 years old on a book I wrote many years ago called This Ain’t No Practice Life. It's about kind of finding your voice in life. She sat in the back right corner. She took notes like crazy. She came up to me afterward and said, man, nobody's ever talked to
me about any of these things. I am interested in my potential. What do I do? Where do I go? How do I do it? Right? And she went on to, now she's got her own book out about how do you live with the monster, an obsessed person like me. And you know, she's managing real estate. She's doing big things. She runs
the health division of our company. What happened to her? This was the same girl that did drugs from 21 to 24. Had no direction. Was in a dead end job she hated. I would submit to you that her prey drive was activated. And that's what happened to her. So to me, that's why when I get into the activators of prey drive, exposure is an activator of prey drive. Being exposed to a higher
frequency thinker, a new dimension of your life being, exposed to a new way of living, seeing something. That is an activator of prey drive. And that's in essence what happened to her. Jeff Lerner: So maybe not everybody has it in equal measure. Everybody has it. You could even maybe argue that everybody has it in equal measure, and it's circumstantial or based on, you know, nurture and environment or whatever. But certainly everybody has enough of it that they can hook into it and do some great things. Would you agree with that?
Micheal Burt: If exposed to the right people. I mean you mentioned a key word. You know, a lot of my prey drive was probably instilled or installed in me from an early age from a single mom who taught me we don't whine, we don't complain, we don't make excuses. Environments matter. Who's coaching you matters. You know, so yes, I think environment matters in these scenarios. Those other kids that didn’t play for me that went to other schools that didn't have coaches as good as I was in high school, maybe their prey drive wasn't activated the way the kids that played for me did because they had an advantage. I was a better coach than the other coaches I coached against. So you know, I think a lot of this matters about where you place yourself which is why I'm so big on everybody needing a coach in life. Everybody needs to have a
person in their life who can help them play at a higher frequency Jeff Lerner: Right now, I'm in the middle of, for the very first time in my life ever, I'm actually coaching basketball. Some of my son's friends have a recreational basketball league. They're high school age. It's like juniors and seniors. And they asked me to coach and I was so flattered. It wasn't even my own kids asking me to coach. So I am coaching basketball,
admittedly probably at a much lower level than you. But I have a newfound appreciation for coaching. But tell me a little bit about your background. Nevermind my coaching. Let's talk about yours. Tell me how'd you get into all this? Micheal Burt: I started coaching very early in life. I was a point guard when I played in high school. My high school coach called me Professor. Said, you're
always thinking. I kept hearing throughout all of my childhood from coaches that said, one of these days, you're going to be a great coach. It was a recurring theme I heard from the time I was six years old all the way through my high school career. And so at 15 years old, I got asked to coach a junior pro basketball team. And the second I started coaching, I just loved it. I knew this was what I was supposed to do. I kind of found my voice. I would go on
to be an elementary coach at 18. I became the youngest head coach in the state of Tennessee at the second largest high school at 22. And then by 30 had built kind of a national powerhouse which is really what prompted me to start writing the books, is that people were constantly asking me what I was doing with the kids. How are you winning? They seem so disciplined. They have such chemistry, such trust, such leadership, such buy-in. What I was doing was I was a
deep disciple of Covey from 18 to 25. So I really studied the whole person theory, those seven habits. And what I was doing was I was learning those things and then teaching my players those things. So imagine, you know, your kid playing for me at 14 years old, and they're learning the seven habits of highly effective people, the principles of good to great, the five dysfunctions of teams, the five disciplines of a learning organization. I mean I was building these little stone-cold killing machines. And so people always wanted to know what I was doing. So I started writing the books and the books led me
to speak and speaking led me to coach business people. Jeff Lerner: That’s really cool. Isn’t it amazing that it really doesn't matter what discipline you're in, whether you're an entrepreneur, whether you're a coach, whether you work in a professional career, you know, in banking or law, like those seven habits, man, those seven habits. I love that book. That was a big early influence on me. And I’m in Utah too, where they originated. Well, I guess they originated in the Bible you could argue.
But he wrote him down here. Micheal Burt: Yeah. And you know, I mean to me, I don't say it was a flute, but I went to a coaching summit. And the guy leading the summit said, if you don't read another book this year, read The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. A lot of people read books, but very few people kind of devour the book and really, really understand it. And so from 18 to 25, that's pretty much who I studied. That was my guy, Covey. And the reason that's important is because Covey
had a deep methodology. He really understood how to inter engineer people to win. He understood the body, the mind, the heart, and the spirit. He understood a framework. And that's really what I was learning that would be valuable for me even at 44. How do you package a concept? How do you sell a
concept? How do you build a structure and a framework to help a person activate their potential or find their voice in life? And so that depth really helped me to separate myself many years later from lots of other coaches that were just sales trainers or, you know, in my opinion, focused on one facet of a person's nature and that's the body. That whole person theory changed my life because now I understood to activate the prey drive in a person, the whole person, I needed to understand how to do it in all four parts of their nature: the body, the mind, the heart, and the spirit. And that has given me a tremendous competitive advantage in the coaching business.
Jeff Lerner: So what do you say, I mean have you had situations, and it's probably a forgone answer, but I'll ask it. Have you had situations where people were put into your environment, hey were exposed to all these principles, they were shown the payoff or the rewards that could come from this engagement of the prey drive, they had all the incentives to do it, and they just don't? It's like pushing a string up a hill. And for some reason, they just don't activate. Do you ever get that
Micheal Burt: A hundred percent. We had it happen today. We had, we coach about 650 business owners a month in a program I have called Monster Producer. It is a weekly coaching program where they get coached by me in a rhythm and structure through six business structures that we believe can help them play at a higher level. We have an auctioneer. He auctions off land, homes. He got into our program, basically dug in, and tripled his business. I mean the dude made, you know, who knows? $200,000 or $300,000, $400,000 more and is quickly becoming one of the top guys in the world. Well, we had another auction here today that tried to quit and said the coaching doesn't work. And he's not
connected at all to the coaching. And I believe, everything goes back to my beliefs, that it is a hundred percent the learner's responsibility to extract the value from the teacher. You know, I've listened to some of your interviews, and it's up to you, if you use these interviews to extract value from world-class people, it is up to Jeff to extract the value from the person that he's interviewing. Right?
It's not the person. The person's got the value. They've already shown a demonstrated capacity to make millions of dollars. So to me, when I hear a person say, this doesn't work, it shows me a very low frequency. A low-frequency person always blames other people when something doesn't work. A high-frequency person always says, it's my responsibility to extract the value.
This is why you can get a great idea out of a bad book. You don't need a whole book to get a great idea. You need one concept. And sometimes I've read books that were great concepts that were terrible books.
But just looking at the concept. Like I'm here in my home office and I got all these books on my bookshelf. I could just look at the concept and go, that's a strong concept. It's a terrible book, but it's a great concept. And all I need
is the concept. So to me, yes, I could expose a hundred people to the exact same coaching. and there would be a percentage who would get it and make millions of dollars with it who do. There'll be a percentage that kind of get it. There'll be percentage that get it very inconsistently. And then there
will be a percentage of laggards that would never get it. If I moved in with them, Jeff, they wouldn't get it. Okay? So that's the law of diffusion, man. The law of diffusion tells me if I coached 30 people, 4.8 will be innovators and
early adopters. 10 of them will be early majority. 10 of them will be late majority. And 4.8 will be laggards. So it's not necessarily my fault the 4.8 doesn't get it. Maybe they don't pay attention. Maybe they don't show up. Maybe nobody could help them. Right? Jeff Lerner: Yeah, it’s so funny you talk about books and how it’s the concept. I swear I feel that. Like for example, Jim Collins, Good to Great.
Classic book. Never read it. But I talk about it all the time because I'm obsessed with being a level five leader. But I've never read the book. I literally read a synopsis that described what a level five leader is as presented by Jim Collins in the book. And I am obsessed with being a level five leader, even though I've never read the book because the concept ultimately, until it's translated through your own context, your own experience, your own opportunities for tactical implementation, it doesn't mean anything anyways. And once you do start that process of transmuting it into your own applied life, frankly, all the ornamentation, the 80,000 words wrapped around concept really don't mean a thing. And so how do you, and I’m asking totally selfishly by the way, this is not just an empirical question. Because
I want to do what you're talking about for people in entrepreneurship, in my business ENTRE Institute. How do you at least know that you gave it every chance to get traction before you go, you know, they just, they're just not willing to go there? Micheal Burt: That's a great question. I think all I can do as the coach is show up and coach. And the way I'm wired, I'm going to show up and give you everything I have. Most people are going to think I'm over-delivering. And all I have is
the feedback from the market. Right? All I have is the feedback from the market to know. So I go for a period of time with people, and I typically don't give up on people. People come in and out. When you’re in the coaching business like I am, people are very transient. I know, you know, I saw your interview with Cardone and, you know, I spoke at 10X too. I spoke at the original 10X in
Riviera, Maya, Mexico when there were 70 people there. And you know, I'm having a conversation with Grant one day in Miami. I've just spoken to his team. And he said to me, man, it all goes to zero at midnight. And I said, what do you mean? He said, well, they love you one day. They love me one day. They love Tony Robbins the next day. They love Vaynerchuk the next day. Like it all
goes to zero at midnight. And I went home, man, just depressed. I'm like, what am I doing? What am I doing, man? Why do I put all this time and energy into people? And then I realized that that is human nature. Human nature is to start with good intention. The prey drive is activated. It is to fall off the wagon. It is to experience guilt. Some want to go some of the way, some want to go part of the way, some want to go all the way. And when you help, this
is why when you're disappointed, I told my wife this once because, there was a company that wanted her to coach the women. When she wrote her book, I was coaching an insurance company and they brought my wife in to coach the women. And my wife would come back to me. And number one, it’s a funny story. They said, we want to coach women. We want to pay you. And I said, how much are you going to pay my wife? And they said $50,000. And I said,
she'll do it. I'm like, she's in. And then I came home and told her I signed her up to coach his company. And she had a fit about it because she's not a coach. That's not what she does. But she came home one night, she said, gosh,
this is so frustrating. She's like, those women do not do one thing I tell them to do. I listen to the same problems every month, and they never go do anything.
And she said, it’s so disappointing. How do you handle all the disappointment? And this goes back to what Cardone said to me. It all goes to zero at midnight. I said, sweetheart, you're not helping enough people. When you're helping 40 people and four of them disappoint you, it's a big deal. When you help 400,000 people and four disappoint you, you don't even notice it. See, the key to disappoint is helping more people. And that's really what Cardone was saying to
me, is don't get caught up in the people that come and go in your life, the transient people. What you need to do is just show up and be great, man. And there'll be some people appreciate it and some people who don't. And who cares? Right? Just keep on moving, man. It ain't about you. Ain’t about them sticking with you. It's about you pursuing your potential and trying to
help as many people as you can. Jeff Lerner: You know, that's kind of a new applied spin on his 10X rule. Almost you could say, look, if you're frustrated about the number of people you're disappointing, go try to disappoint 10 times as many people. Micheal Burt: Right. That's exactly right. Because— Jeff Lerner: Then you’ll also help 10 times as many people.
Micheal Burt: Yeah. And at the end of the day, some will, some won't. So what? All you can control is the stimulus. That’s the Covey in me. The Covey in me says, all I can control is the stimulus. I can't control your response. There are going to be some people that watch this interview that say man, I love Coach Burt and some people say, man, I don't like that dude at all. And it doesn't matter how much effort I give you. So my point to you is my confidence can't be
controlled by an external factor. I know when I gave my best effort. I know when I don't give my best effort. And that's good enough for me to go home and sleep at night. Jeff Lerner: So let me ask you this then. How do you make sure, because, you know, we talk a lot in entrepreneurship and this probably applies in all types of, you know, I just happen to work with entrepreneurs. Right? But I assume this
applies in all these different, you know, worlds as well. We talk a lot about imposter syndrome. People that feel like they're out of their league, they're in over their head, they don't belong, they're not worthy. And so they will, you know, it's like a thermostat setting. They will kick in to lower the temperature to where they feel like they belong to be set. Right? We're human
beings too. How do we make sure that we in kind of taking this on for our life to say, I'm going to go out there and I'm going to give it my best and I'm going to follow through and I'm going to execute and I'm going to live by all my own teachings. How do we keep ourselves from regressing, especially because it's sort of built on this idea, this paradigm of like us being the exemplar because we're the coach. Right? How do you coach yourself? Micheal Burt: Well, I think we're human and we understand that we don't have all the answers. We may be an expert in something. You know, I'm an expert in
coaching. I've been coaching for 28 years, but I'm not perfect. And I make mistakes and I have, you know, the same problems everybody else has in a company every day or running a growing company. And I think to have proper expectation, you know, I've been able to meet some of the biggest people in the world through speaking around the world. Right? I've been on tour with some of the biggest
people in the world. They all have flaws. They all have problems. They all have things you don't like about them. They're all have insecurities. I mean I've been on stage with some of the biggest people in the world that you think are so confident. And as soon as they walk off stage, the first thing they say is, how do you think I did? Do you think the audience liked it? Do you think it was good? Right? When you read the book about Nick Saban, it really troubled him when he was at LSU that people didn't like him. You know? But he comes across as such a confident dude when he's winning. But he used secretly ask the boosters, like why
don't they like me? Why don't they accept me? You know, what do I have to do? So I have a proper expectation of people, is that we're all flawed in some way. We are experts at something. But even some of the biggest people that I love, man, I could find—I mean it's easy to find a weakness in other people. It's easy to find something wrong with other people. Okay? And I think sometimes we put people up on pedestals, and we expect too much from them. We expect them not to fail, not to make mistakes, not to be irritated, not to be perfect. And I think that's an inaccurate expectation. I mean even King
David in the Bible was this great king. He’s one of my favorite characters in the Bible. But when he didn't go into war that year, he got distracted. He got involved with Bathsheba, and his whole life went downhill. But he's still a great king. Right? I mean it's like, you know, I mean we can expect everybody to
be everything. So I think that's a proper expectation. Jeff Lerner: Yeah. I appreciate that. I appreciate knowing that it's okay not to be, that I'm not perfect. But to be fair, to be honest, I think I'm a hell
of a lot better than most people when it comes to execution. Because I hear it. I'm just, I'm relaying what the market tells me. Jeff, you just, you say you're going to do something, and five years later, you're still working at doing it. Even like however long it takes, it takes. You just go. You just—so I'll
admit, I take that as a point of pride. Like you know what? I work hard. I persevere. I do the things I say I'm going to do. But I also know I'm not perfect, and I know I'm not human. And that makes me feel terrified. And maybe
I allow this to be more fearful than I should be. But I am scared of my own flawed nature. And so the reason I'm asking this question is I want to know how do I stay on track? Because I feel like I'm just one life event, one illness, one bad relationship, one temptation, one something away from—you know what I mean? From just being like everybody else where suddenly it's actually really hard to coach me or to coach myself. Micheal Burt: Well, I think about, I asked Tim Grover once, you know, who worked with Jordan.
Jeff Lerner: Oh yeah. Relentless is a book I did read, and I love it. Micheal Burt: And he and I are friends. And I said, did the greats ever lose their confidence? And he said, they never lost their confidence, but they did lose their focus. Right? They did get distracted, whether it be Jordan and gambling or, you know, this problem or that problem. Whatever it was is that they got off track. They lost focus. They didn't lose their confidence. They
lost their focus. And I think that's what happens. When you play at a very high level. Okay? Like you're playing at. And it’s like an entertainer. Even entertainers have a bad night. Even athletes have a bad night. Even people that perform at the highest frequency possible walk off stage and you go, man, I'm bleh. I was terrible tonight. I didn't have my A game on. I was tired. I was fatigued. Whatever the case may be. So I think when you're talking about, yes, even on a bad day, for me, I still feel like I'm operating at a much higher frequency than a large percentage of the population.
Even when I'm bad, I don't think most people know it. But I do. But I know it because my expectations. So let's go back to prey drive. If you study the prey drive in the animal, the pursuit is the reward. The animal is not most motivated by capturing the prey. The animal is most motivated by pursuing the prey. Its mere ability to pursue the prey the greatest motivator for the
animal. The mere ability for you to wake up every day and pursue your potential, pursue your self-actualization, pursue it is the greatest reward that you can have. It's not actually capturing it. It's not actually being perfect. It’s in the pursuit of some huge goal that you're pushing towards. Jeff Lerner: Hey, sorry for the interruption. I just wanted to let you
know you can get a free copy of my book, The Millionaire Shortcut, which will show you the fastest way to become a millionaire in the new economy. And there's a special link just for this episode in the description. Thanks for tuning in, and I hope you enjoy the rest of the episode. Thank you. You just created a clarity around I think something that's really profound, at least for me. You know, even the word drive, it's an action. It's ongoing. It
ends once you arrive. Right? And you think about all the things in life that we pursue. Like what are the things that we tend to just like spend a lot of our time and energy going after? Right? Like food, money, respect, sex. They all feel
worse after you have them. Micheal Burt: Yep. Jeff Lerner: Right? Micheal Burt: Yep.
Jeff Lerner: And isn't that crazy that actually the animus is the pursuit. Micheal Burt: Yes. Jeff Lerner: That's so, and how freeing is that to really internalize that truth and go, the fact that I feel like I'm struggling, the fact that I feel like I'm chasing and striving and pursuing is, like you said, that's actually the reward. Micheal Burt: And I didn't catch that the first time, Jeff. When I'm researching for a book, I'm looking everywhere. I mean I'm reading all kinds of things. I'm getting a hook. I’m seeing something and I'm relating or
associating that. And I missed that the first time. And then I went back and was studying the concept of prey drive because I don't have animals. Here's the odd thing. I wrote a book called Zebras and Cheetahs many years ago. And then I'm writing a book about prey drive, but I don't have any dogs. It's just the concept. Right? And so when I was going back and studying prey drive, I'm like
huh. When I saw that concept that the dog is most motivated when it knows it gets to go hunt, that's when it’s most excited. You get it out of the truck, and it knows, I'm going hunting, man. Now it's on. Capturing, it's kind of like when your business makes a million
dollars. I remember when my business broke a million dollars of revenue. And by all standards in the United States, only 4% of small businesses ever break a million of revenue. Right? That's why when you watch Shark Tank and they say, we did $2 million of revenue or $2 million in sales, they all perk up. Because they know that's a very small percentage of businesses. Well, in the coaching space, there's 700,000 people in the United States that called themself a coach. The average income of those coaches is $47,000 a year. I know
that I'm in the top 0.0001% of money earners in the coaching profession on planet earth. Okay? Now here's the deal though. When I broke a million of revenue and I pushed and man, you know how hard it is.
I remember, I remember my guy calling me and telling me, man, we just did it. We broke a million. We just went over a million. And I was working out in Florida at a condo we had down there. And I literally just stopped and said, great man. Great. And I went back to working out. And it's like okay, we did it. Now how do we get to $2 million? How do we get to $10 million? How do we get to $20 million? Because I know if Cardone can do it, if Tony Robbins can do it, if Maxwell can do it, if whoever can do it, dad gummit, we can do it. So
it's like it's not getting there. It's like how do we do it, man? That is the fun. That's the game. That's the pursuit. That's the prey drive. Jeff Lerner: Well, you just sound like a greedy capitalist pig because you're wanting more than what you need. Micheal Burt: Well, you know, here's what I would say. Man, I was a high school basketball coach. I made $24,700 a year. I worked 80 hours a week for a
decade. I worked 10 hours a day on Sunday. I'd get up and go to the church and go to my office. And then when I was 25 years old, I spoke for a company. I’d just written my first book, and they asked me to speak. And I said, sure, I'll come over and say a few words. And I spoke for an hour, and they paid me more in an hour than I made in a month. And I was like, okay, I can do this. Right? And I went home, and I studied coaches that were speaking. And guess
who it was? Lou Holtz. And I looked at Lou Holtz’s speaking fees. And it was $100,000. And this was back in the, you know, shoot, early 2000s. And I'm like, oh, okay. I can do this. Like I can do this, man. I got a conviction. I'm a great coach. I know how to win. I know how to activate the
prey drive. So I was not an entrepreneur. I didn't think about money. From 19 to 31, I didn't know the difference between an asset and a liability. True story. I literally went to the bookstore at 31 years old and I bought a book called How to Grow Your Financial IQ. I would later come to understand that Sharon Lechter wrote that book with Kiyosaki. And I'm doing an event with her in Scottsdale next week where she and I are doing a publishing event together which is crazy. Because when I was 31, man, I was
reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad and How to Grow Your Financial IQ. I never thought about money. Then I started a business, Jeff, and I said, we need money to expand. We have to generate revenue every day. We have to hit our goals to create. Because I can never get any bigger than this if I don't go out and make money. It was just a realization I had.
Jeff Lerner: Yeah. And obviously, it’s not something that you would ever ask anyone to defend. You knew I was being tongue in cheek. But you know, I do think that, again, through my bias and my perspective, I see people's discomfort with declaring their intent to pursue money, their discomfort with the declaration, their inability to enjoy it as the wonderful game and thrill that it is because they have all this emotional baggage around it. And
that’s why I wanted to get that out on the table is— Micheal Burt: I couldn't agree with you more, man. I couldn't, as a coach, if you were sat in my office and listened to our sales calls and see the anxiety around money, it is depressing. It depresses my salespeople. It depresses me. The way people are scared to death to lose money, their relationship with money. Man, it’s really become, after so many years, I understand now why Cardone talks about money so much. I understand why people talk about it. Because they have seen thousands of people have this negative relationship with money.
Jeff Lerner: It's why I called my show Millionaire Secrets. I'm not always talking about money. But I want money to always be present in this conversation because I think it's the part of winning, it's the area of life where people are the most scared to actually win.
Micheal Burt: And it starts, man, it's a grip that has its hold on people so badly. I see it every day, man. I see it every day as a coach. I can't tell you how many times I heard it. I want you to be my coach, but I just don't have the money. I can't, you know, I need the money. And I don't care if it's $9.99 cents to $83 a month to $99 a month to $1,400 bucks a year. I mean it's just crazy about how people see money. And it makes me want to understand money is energy. It is circulating about in the universe. There is no shortage of money.
Right? You don't need more money. You need more people because people have the money. And money is exchanged when problems are solved or opportunities are presented. And until you really get this, man, it's such a taxing, emotional
tax on you and your life. I really believe that. Jeff Lerner: Yeah. I mean what you're talking about is literally at the foundation of so much of what I do, what I talk about, what I teach about, what I try to counsel people through. How do you do, or do you find that people, similar to issues around money, that actually there are a lot of people that deep down are scared to win? Micheal Burt: You know, I don't, maybe. What I see a lot as a coach is just a hesitation to take an action. I see a lot of contraction. So when I see people get scared, this is a clear difference to me between a big time person and a small time person. When a small time person gets scared, they contract. They
move to a place of comfort. When a big time person gets scared, like listen, in March of this year, I was scared. My speaking engagements were drawn up. That's how I drive leads. My team's freaking out. They're used to being on
the road. They're used to being out there in the world. Several of my team members got depressed because we were working from home, and they're used to this high energy environment I have. I mean they're used to traveling around the world, seeing people, and it'd be in a cool job. Now they're locked up in their homes. And I mean literally we went through
just, some of them went through depression. When I get scared, my prey drive is activated. My competitiveness comes out, and it's like there's nothing, this is not going to stop me from hitting my goals like this. Now I
have a worthy nemesis. Now I have an adversary. Now I have something to really, and then I find some freakish level, man. I get to a freakish level of extraordinary action when my back is against the wall. And that is the prey drive being activated. Fear is an activator of prey drive. Bow but for the small-time person, fear is a sign to contract. So when a person gets afraid,
we got to cut everything. We've got to cut everything out. Right? We've got to stop everything. That's how most people respond. And I see that every single day. People get scared, and they contract. And it's a vicious cycle. They
get scared and they contract. And because of that, they never expand to do what they're really capable of doing. Jeff Lerner: Yeah. It's interesting. And this is exactly where, you know, I never
know where these interviews are supposed to go. Right? We're just kind of like grasping around and then you find it and it's like ah, yes, here it is. So this is where I believe we're meant to go. So I want to ask this. Or first, I want to
say this, and then I want to ask. It's interesting you talk about expansion. Because human beings, particularly Americans, as you've pointed out, we really only have two basic life settings: scared and comfortable. And when we're comfortable, the incentive to do the work to expand is not necessarily there unless you're wired a certain way because you're already comfortable. You don't have to go get comfort. It's already there. And when you're scared, if you're a contractor, if you contract when you're scared, it's probably, I mean, you know, because there's probably somebody hearing this who's scared right now.
If you contract right now while you're scared, ask yourself, what are you going to do once you're not scared anymore? Because once you're not scared anymore, you're not going to have an incentive to expand. So now is actually maybe the only time you have to expand because if you're a contractor when you're scared and you're complacent when you're comfortable, then you literally live a life that never expands. Right? So actually being scared should, could, I would say, should be the catalyst to expand because you're actually less likely to expand once you're not scared anymore.
Micheal Burt: Yeah. Because once you're not scared, your needs are met. Okay? Let's go into the theory. Satisfied needs never motivate, only unsatisfied needs. There's a whole section in the new book that I'm working on about negative emotion: fear, anger, disappointment, anxiety, comparison, jealousy, rage, anger, whatever. These are all actually your friends. Because you've never really, see, I used to believe that passion, emotion came from passion until I was really, really screwed over in a business relationship. And then I had some real conflict. And what I come to really understand was
that real emotion, the kind of emotion that gets you to do big things, comes from conflict. Therefore, conflict is actually necessary for your expansion. When you have conflict with other people, when there's internal conflict, when, right? Like this is where real passion and emotion comes from. This is like the hero's journey. Right?
There's always a conflict. There's always, you know, Saturday night I did this big event with this country music artist and Rob O’Neill came. And Rob O’Neill was the Navy SEAL that shot Osama bin Ladin. And he was there and, you know, this conflict produces this real emotion. And if you watch the movie Zero Dark Thirty, the little CIA agent for a hundred days tried to convince them that she was a hundred percent certain that Osama bin Laden was there.
And there's all this constant conflict, and she's so passionate. And finally, they go, okay, what's your percentage? What's your level of service? She said a hundred percent he's right there. And when I talked to Rob O'Neill, he said, if it would not have been for that woman for 12 years, staying in conflict, trying to find bin Laden and knowing where she's at, that would’ve never happened.
We would’ve never found him. We would’ve never killed him. We would’ve never had any of those things happen. It was really her persistence, that one person's persistence toward solving this problem. And so when you think about this concept of conflict and fear and anxiety, I actually say in a weird, screwed up way, Jeff, these things are your friends because you can never get to this freakish level, this extraordinary level. Okay? Look at Jordan. Watch The Last Dance. He always played better when there was some kind of conflict. Somebody said something to him. They put the best defender on him.
They said he wasn't the best. They didn't shake his hand. They didn't look at him. They didn't tell him good job. Whatever it was. And if he didn't have it, he made it up. Jeff Lerner: Yeah. So good. That was such a good show. So let me, and I just, I'll just share. I mean the business I have now ENTRE which is, you know, debatably, although I have yet to see evidence that contradicts this, I think it's the fastest growing education company in the world right now. Like
we're bananas growth right now. Started two and a half years ago when I'd had this idea for two years that, hey, I should start an education company and teach people some of the stuff I've learned about online business. And when I finally did, it was when I got screwed out of close to $900,000 on a business deal. And by the way, that $900,000 was my runway and my lifeline for what I was going to transition into doing. I got screwed out of it. I had a real estate deal go bad. Basically, over about a million bucks got sucked out of my personal universe. And I was F-ed. And I got to work.
And the direct outgrowth of the work that I did that started basically that day is what I'm doing now. The most massive expansion of my life came out of a great moment of being royally screwed. So my question, so I mean I'm right there with you, man. Like I'm all about it. Like you're saying, when you get
scared, your back’s against the wall, massive action. If I'm going to lose, it's not going to be because I didn't fight. Right? Like that's how I am too. How do we package, how do we bottle and serve that? Because being a fear-driven expander versus being a fear-driven contractor, I agree with you, is probably the single greatest differentiator between really successful people and really average people. How do we bottle that?
Micheal Burt: You know, it's a great question. And I've tried to understand this. And I think as I continue to write this book and really study that, my agent wanted me to make the whole book about fear. Because this was during the
middle of the pandemic. And you know, basically what you're saying, there's two types of people. Some people are going to go out, look at all the businesses that went out of business. I mean they literally, like I knew a business right down the road from me, literally in the first week of the pandemic, they're like we're out. We're done. And I'm like, one week? That's it?
That’s all you owe it to your hopes and freaking dreams is one damn week and you're out? You give up after a week? Like this is ridiculous. Jeff Lerner: Right. Micheal Burt: But here's the deal. We've seen that happen all over America. We've seen businesses, when they got scared, instead of finding a way to win. Right?
It's going to be a fight, but we're going to find a way to win. It all goes to zero at midnight. There comes a time when winter asks what you did all spring and summer. What you're asking is really how do we bottle up this mindset of
expectation. Anything worthwhile is going to be a fight, man. But you're going to find a way to win. And everything that comes along that seems like it's derailing you is actually the very raw material and fuel you need to do something big. When you lost a million dollars, that activated your prey drive. Now as a result of that, X number of years later, you’re now experiencing maybe the fastest growing company in what you do in the world.
So here's the deal. Would it have happened if you wouldn't have been screwed so bad? Would you have the prey drive? Okay. So here's the question. That conflict is absolutely necessary for that expansion. Now, if you could’ve told yourself right that day, like I take it personal when people want to quit my programs. It bothers me. I feel like I failed them in some way. But I'm
getting to the point in my life that I really understand that the conflict you have in a day that seems to emotionally tax you is actually necessary for you. Because it constantly forces me to go, how do we create a better business model? Jeff Lerner: Yeah. It's adaptive stress. It's just like tearing a muscle down so it gets back stronger. Micheal Burt: Yeah. That's exactly. So here's the deal. That's the sale. That's really what you're bottling and selling is the mindset that comes along with adversity which is just an unwanted outcome. It is a departure away from an
ideal scene. It is an unexpected outcome. Then it becomes that’s the stimulus. Then what is the response and how does the response use the stimulus to do something even bigger? Jeff Lerner: Have you, I mean, and again, I already know I'm asking a question that doesn't have a clear cut answer if only so that we can be provoking in the mind of the listener this reflective questioning of like, well, which one am I and how do I start maybe conditioning myself? This is why I love doing hard things. This is why I get up at and go to the gym first thing every day. Because you know, like the SEALS say, you have to start training
now for the worst possible conditions that you could find yourself in later. Because by the time you need to be ready, it will be too late to get ready. Micheal Burt: That's right. So, yeah. Go ahead.
That is an incredibly hard sale to make. And let me tell you why. I work with mortgage companies. That's one segment. All making more money than they have ever made in their life because the freaking rates are 1.9%. Right.
My 8-year-old daughter could sell a mortgage today. She could make $20 million selling mortgages today. Right? Now, here's the deal. How do you convince them? How do you say, look, man, I get it. But I was coaching people during the recession of ’08 when they couldn't do one deal and they were bankrupt and they were losing everything they had. And they'd been living too
good during the years. You need to be prospecting every day. You need to be working the muscle. See, that's why I say, you know, it all goes to zero at midnight. To me, it means, look what we did yesterday don't matter.
We come back, we chop wood, and we carry water. You getting up at to prepare is uncommon. Right? But that's probably why you get uncommon results. But how do you sell that to the average everyday cat? He says, look, I'm making more money than I've ever made, man. I'm living the good life, Coach. My prey drive. Why do I need prey drive right now, man? Money's rolling in here. It is rolling in right now. But there always comes a time when winter asks what you did all
spring and summer. And some people will be ready for it. Because you can't crank it up then. Right? Like you said, when you get into the battle and you're not ready, it's too late to practice. It’s too like to be great then. So that is a hard sell to make. The way I try to make that sale is I say, look, there comes a time in your life when you make a decision. The word decide means to kill off. You make a decision to leave your amateur
desires behind and you make a decision to go pro in the body and the mind and the heart and in the spirit. And that is why you wake up in the morning and work out. That is why you pursue your potential every day. That is why you activate the prey drive and reactivate because you are a professional. Okay? And whatever you do for a living, you're operating at the highest possible frequency. And when you're that good, people will want to do business with you. You will become a person of interest in the world, a person of
advancement or impression of increase as Wallace Wattles used to say. And people will be coming to you. That's a good place to be. Jeff Lerner: I have 1 Corinthians 13 tattooed on my arm. When I was a child.
I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child. But when I became a man, I put away childish things. Micheal Burt: Right. Jeff Lerner: It's kind of what you're saying. Micheal Burt: That's a go pro verse. Jeff Lerner: It's time to put away childish things.
Micheal Burt: That's a go pro verse. Jeff Lerner: Children get spoiled. Children eat the first marshmallow. Micheal Burt: Right. And you know, I was telling my team this week, even Paul in the Bible, even Paul talks about his desire to do right, to do good. But left to his own devices, he just couldn't do it. And that's one of the greatest
people in the Bible. So I was telling my team this week, this is why people need a coach in their life. They start with good intention just like Paul. They fall off the wagon. They experience guilt. And if it can happen to that dude, it
could happen to anybody. Okay? So my point is this is human nature, man. And this is the good and bad. This is why people need coaching. But this is also why coaching is such a tough business. I can't tell you how many people, I have this beautiful lodge in Tennessee, 8,000 square feet. It's on 23 acres.
And I do coaching. I do bootcamps there two or three times a month. And these people come in, and sometimes I'll watch the videos, Jeff. And they come in, and it's like, oh, this is so transformational and this was so incredible and it's changed my life so much. And then I will tell my team, and then we've never seen them one more time. It is both inspiring and
depressing all at the same time. Because I watch those videos, and I'm like, man, look at the dude crying. I had a dude walk up to me one day, and he said, man, I've been to 10 years of therapy. I've gone to Tony Robbins events. And in two days, you changed my whole life. Six months later, he tried to quit our coaching program. Okay? And that is a story of Paul. That is a story of I try to do good. I get up and man, I try. I want to so bad, but I just cannot do it.
Okay? And that is human nature. And when you study human nature, you understand why people come and go, why people start and finish, why people can't follow through, why people make excuses. And that's the human nature. That's the condition of humans. Jeff Lerner: You know, there's that Marianne Williamson quote that, it's funny how these things lodge in your mind. Like I've never been a guy that's like, oh, I need to memorize quotes. But there's just certain ones that stick. That she said our deepest fear is not that we're inadequate, but that we're powerful beyond measure. It's our light, not our darkness that most frightens us.
Do you feel, this is kind of what I was getting at when I asked if there's people that are scared to win. Do you feel like sometimes maybe you're too effective or the experience is too powerful or the transformation is too real. Now they've touched the void. Now they've they unplugged from the matrix a little bit and it's terrifying and get me back to my palliative, whatever life that was. Do you think that that's part of what we're dealing with? Some people really just don't even want to go there. Micheal Burt: Yes. Yes. We are dealing with some people who don't want to go
there. I have also experienced convincing people that they're better than what they really are. And as bad as I hate to say this— Jeff Lerner: It’s the underbelly of coaching right here.
Micheal Burt: Yeah. As bad as I hate to say this, there has been some cases in my life, my coaching program is called Monster Producer and it's kind of built around this concept of becoming a legendary creature. There's actually been times that we've actually created monsters and created people that thought they were better than what they were, that bought their own hype, that listened to the own. You know? And I don't see as much as people, I don't see as much as people being afraid of success. Maybe it's there. Maybe I don't, maybe I'm blind to it for some reason. Jeff Lerner: Those may not be people signing up for coaching.
Micheal Burt: Yeah, yeah. I don't see that as much. I do see people wanting a quick fix. So I'm down in the dumps. I need to go to Coach Burt’s bootcamp. I need to get my prey drive back. And I believe in long obedience in the same
direction. I believe in mastery. I do not believe in cotton candy. I do not believe one bootcamp fixes you or changes your life. I believe ongoing coaching does. So you know, these are all things I'm dealing with as I get older as a coach, and I'm seeing patterns and trends. And you know, what
are flaws in the business model? I mean I'm constantly looking at better ways to build a better business model. You know? Does it always have to be the coach that shows up? Is it always Coach Burt that activates the prey drive? Is it? Right? I mean is it always the Cardone got to get on and do the Facebook lives and do the videos, do the things to drive the thing? Right? Like trust me, I think about it every day, man. There's a part of me that loves it and a part of me that hates it. And you know, I relate it to the artist and the entertainer. This artist, you know, that came to my, played at my lodge on Saturday night is a world-class vocalist. And he showed up, he was frustrated, tired, irritated.
He had been in Florida singing. Then he came to Nashville to sing. He said, man, I just need a break. I just need to take a nap. I just need to get away from people for a little bit, and I'll be ready to go tonight. And so he did all those things. And then he came out and for an hour and a half, man, he just sang, and he was just incredible.
And I think about my life like that. Like I get out and I sing, and sometimes it's incredible. And it's like man, I got to go sing again and then I got to sing again and then I got to sing again and then I got to sing again. And part
of me loves the singing and part of me is like, man, when do I not have to sing the songs? Right? So there’s all of these elements, these human elements that are really going on that I think as you get older, you deal with. That's part of coaching business. Jeff Lerner: So let me ask you this then. And I know for both our purposes, we're about out of time. But I got to ask you this. The pursuit is the thrill. It is the joy. Right? What is it that you're now pursuing that is why you keep
going out there singing when frankly you probably don't have to? Like you're not going starve. Micheal Burt: Now, I'm interested in building greatness factories. Greatest factories are a vision I had in 2017. These are unique destination locations,
hubs of energy. They have, you know, obviously shared office space. They have permanent office space. But they have podcast studios, dream incubation, dream foundries, auditoriums. The first one is in Nashville where I live. And you know,
these are structures of exchange for people to go and exchange energy. Much, much deeper than a WeWork or Industrious where people just go to work. There's intentional collaboration. And this is kind of part of my legacy is building and licensing these around the world. We already have interest in Houston, Miami, other places to license these greatness factories. And that motivates me because there's a real estate side to that that interests me and there's a licensing side to it to take all of my work over the last 28 years and use it. And you
know, it's the next big play for me. I don't just want to be a good coach. There's a lot of good coaches in the world. I want to do something unique. I want to be the guy that they say, that dude created greatness factories around the world. You know, these structures of exchange, these places where people come to manifest their potential in the body, in the mind, in the heart, and in the spirit. Jeff Lerner: That's beautiful. I mean that's, nobody's going to clap louder than me, you know, when you pull that off. Actually, I want to know all about
them. I mean maybe all license one or something. It sounds really fascinating. Listen, we're about out of time. We're actually over time, but I literally am too, you know, enraptured with this conversation. I didn't want it to end. How can the world come get more of you, whether it's your coaching, whether it's your book, or just your insight and sharing? Micheal Burt: I think they go to CoachBurt.com. All my bootcamps are up
there. I do live boot camps monthly. I have a coaching program called Monster Producer where I coach about 650 business owners a month. I'm on YouTube a lot. So if you want to go to YouTube and watch my videos. I mean to me, I've only been in this game, you know, you got to think for the last 12 or 13 years. I mean I was a women's basketball coach. And so I'm now competing versus
some of the top people in the world. And I’m paying my dues, man. I'm out there doing it, trying to become known in the world. That's why it's important to me to be on podcasts like yours. So thank you for inviting me. Because that allows me to show my life's work. So I'm in that phase of trying to become known,
trying to become a known quantity in the world, a person of interest so that people can go, that's a guy I want to be associated with. So CoachBurt.com. Follow me. Just search Coach Micheal Burt. You can find the media. I do podcasts each week. You can listen to me on all the mechanisms. And I appreciate you having me today. It's been a great conversation. You asked great questions. Jeff Lerner: I appreciate that. Yeah. When I started a podcast, it's actually
been almost a year that I started a podcast. And you know, I didn't, there's a million, did you know there's a million podcasts now? Micheal Burt: I can believe it. Jeff Lerner: There's a million podcasts. Like the world did not need another
podcast. I wanted to make a great podcast, and I wanted to be a great interviewer and I wanted to—and so I appreciate you saying that because I've worked at, I went out. I said, what makes a good interviewer, a great interviewer, a lousy interviewer. And I intentionally tried. And I will share
since we're on the subject that what I found, and you have a podcast. I'm curious your take on this. It's kind of this ability to operate in faith that the answer will present the next question. And that if you listen closely enough, you'll hear where the conversation wants to lead without having all your questions already written down. That's been the big X
factor for me is to get to where I can listen to the answer fully present but still have a processor going, okay, where's the hook for the next question that takes this a layer deeper? Micheal Burt: You know, you are much more professional in your podcast than I am. I do a podcast weekly, you know, on smaller topics and subjects as a mechanism. But I've never really gone pro in my podcast. Right? It's been just one of those things that I've done to pump content out. Jeff Lerner: Of course.
Micheal Burt: But when I interview people and I really want to get inside the mind, I used to have a show on the Fox News affiliate in Nashville. I had a true radio show called Change Your Life Radio. And what I really figured out, and I paid like $15,000 a year to be on that station. But what I really figured out was I got to interview some of the smartest people in the world and spend an hour with them. And so people would ask me, why do you do that? Why do you go down there? Why do you do that show? And I said, man, it allows me the ability to get inside the mind of the top people in the world. And $15,000
bucks is a very small price to pay to spend time with the kind of people I've been able to spend time with. That's how I met Cardone. That's how I met Marcus Lemonis. That's how I met some of the biggest people in the world and ultimately ended up doing events with them as a result of the podcast of a mere one hour. So the name of, the concept was one hour can change your life. It's called Change Your Life Rad