01.5 - Henry Kilbane | Starting a Business, Building a Brand

01.5 - Henry Kilbane | Starting a Business, Building a Brand

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hey everybody phil here i did a podcast with henry kilbane a little while ago and we spoke primarily about his career uh more specifically his career path and the decisions that led him to where he is now and the decisions that he's made recently about where he wants to focus his energy and uh you can check that out here here there what i have for you today is actually some some of the parts that we cut out of that podcast because it would have been three hours had we not done so uh so this this is our conversation our conversation kind of geared towards his experience thus far and his his you know decisions that he's making about his business his new business right now and um well my experience in business and so it's basically henry and i speaking about our businesses uh his being over bed express which um is really cool and i'm excited to see more of what they come out with but without further ado here is uh henry and i with some business talk it seems too early to worry about because you don't even know what all the response the business responsibilities will be six months from now exactly say like okay you're in yeah exactly you handle this you make decisions about this just right now it's about growth um do you do you think it makes sense to start with i'm not like so my background's not in in growing uh you know social media presence um but my gut reaction would be that like the amount you'd make right now from from affiliate deals on things compared to you know what your goals are with the business two years from now are gonna be really small and i would think starting out with i mean basically i guess it was ben you said right that uh like i would go take his stance and actually go further and be like like either promote nothing at first or promote things that we really believe will really help like because we're trying to help you know our viewers and we make a little bit from it but i think look i think eventually you've got a huge following there's a product you think is pretty good good enough promoting it getting an affiliate deal there's nothing wrong with that and that's probably going to be the right move um or even even potentially product you don't think is that great it you know could be the right move but i think right now that the um the the financial upside is so small for you know the next six months and i guess i don't know if if viewers are turned off by promotion or not but i would i would err on the side of less promotion when you know there's not much upside to it yet yeah a hundred percent um they're yeah the only thing i can say is that you you're completely right um the reality is is not to you know brag or anything the the upside of of earning 2k um a month through an affiliation deal split between you know the five of us yeah um when we literally have 50k in buy-ins on a sunday um it's it's not gonna be actually i think like one of the reasons maybe i've been uh maybe a bit too focused on on affiliation um my main roles up until now mainly because i've just been doing commentary um it was just like setting up the twitch obviously i have uh pretty well networked in the poker world um it's just been like reaching out to people getting their advice and opinions and whatnot but i think the main reason i've been focused on the affiliation side of things is because i i'm money-driven i've always been a very money-driven person and i feel like if in three months we have at least something to show for it from like a financial point of view it would it would just keep us driven it would keep us like striving for because sure 6k twitch followers sure you know you can look at the amount of followers you have on instagram but if those are just numbers on a screen um i i guess i guess money's just number one numbers in a bank account as well right like um but yeah as someone that's always been pretty pretty money driven um it would be nice to just like in three months time not neces yeah just kind of be rewarded for for the effort so far you know just be like okay this is you know this is something that we can generate revenue from and this is going to keep us like this discovers that expenses covers so and so whatnot yeah no it makes sense especially yeah with expenses it's nice to like it feels better even if you have the if the team has the money to lose money for a little while definitely feels better to reach a break-even point um or better sooner i do think how do you think give it some thought though because there's the there's the first question of does it hamper growth or not i don't know if it does if you have you know a bunch of banners and then two something to keep in mind is that when you're when you're 100 times the size that you are now or maybe i don't know what's reasonable multiple 50 times the size you are now um you're you're going to be able to negotiate a better deal with um with a product and you could renegotiate a deal you negotiate now later probably but then all the people you signed up before then are at the lower rate um if it's like a subscription service or something true yeah locked in there so i mean it doesn't it that doesn't mean you have to stop now and but it could mean you focus on just like two products now and and then wait until you're bigger to do more yeah that makes a makes a ton of sense um especially because like we've we've really kept ourselves uncapped in um in like the brands potential because we what we're trying to firstly just to give people a background what we're doing um like at the moment we're streaming the highest stakes available online um on twitch but instead of just being one person streaming um we've got the whole team streaming um so we've got like sometimes there's four of us sometimes there's three of us sometimes just a duo and then we just have like uh basically just sending each other's feeds on a delay um so we have you know sometimes espen's making a deep run sometimes ben's making a deep run sometimes they're both making a deep run but what i the question that we asked was okay right in our mind everything that can be done with twitch poker has been done pretty much already you know we've got the six figure scores we've got the 20 000 viewers i think i think the record is i want to say probably lex has had like 60 70k before on like some you know everything that can be done by one person has been done so we need to try and bring something different which is why we want to keep ourselves uncapped in the sense that um espen is insanely smart when it comes to crypto just it next level knows it inside well i knows it inside out you know it's very intelligent and crypto is something that a lot of people are uneducated on but also very interested in yeah so that could be another product jonas is very smart when it comes to sports betting knows the markets knows where the edges are uh to be had et cetera et cetera uh tumlock is a world-class videographer he knows the gaming industry like the back of his hands so why don't we integrate a brand that has uh high sex poker crypto sports betting gaming but more importantly lifestyle and entertainment because the main thing that a lot of people want to see is they don't want to see people running sims on stream you know they want to see the lifestyle that comes with being a top pro and the behind the scenes stuff and then that's where we kind of all just kind of had that agreement where that's what we wanted to show we want to show everything the ins and outs of what we do the the small intricate parts of it and the stuff that most people already know but that's that was like where the whole concept kind of come up came up with um and at the moment yes we are only streaming poker um so we're not really doing anything different uh as of yet um but our lease in london on the boys house expires on the 23rd of october i'm flying to join them after millions cyprus uh end of september so we're gonna have like timelock with us 24 7 with the camera just like four lads banter poker crypto hanging out just having fun and um and and hopefully just yeah just being ourselves and i'm hoping that's um a product that people buy into because i feel like for me personally that has been one of my biggest assets in my career as a commentator um that people have just bought into me as a person and i don't think uh sorry i'm not delusional enough to think that poker brands would necessarily call me in because i'm like nick shulman where you know i play in these 100ks and i'm beating and like beating the field in these hundred cases i think it's um it's more a personal thing and i think that's why brands succeed overall i guess you could you could speak about that from experience right we've like run it once is that you've been the face of the brand for for a long time now and i think it's safe to say at least it was for me um when it came to signing up it was that okay i associate this brand with phil galfond therefore i'm buying in to you right i'm not actually buying into rio because i don't know what rio is yet i'm buying into what i know phil galfond is and if phil galphon is the face of this brand therefore i am putting my trust kind of blindly into this brand if that makes sense yeah it does i mean i think it's a little different so i i completely agree like in the content game and i think it's you you have like people some people will come because they want to learn how to be great at poker some people will come because they want to learn about crypto but and and sports betting and videography even if depending on the type of content you want to put out um but then they stay and the channel grows because they they get to know the people and that's yeah that's so yeah like the interest can bring them in and that but then at the end of the day they come back because they like the people they care about the people they want to connect with them and in whether it's passively just watching or interacting on twitch you know whatever the case may be i've kind of always felt i may be underestimating that element in um in poker training because i've kind of just always felt that the reason that ronna once was successful is because we just our goal was always put out the best product that there was and oh yeah don't get me wrong you put out [ __ ] great great product thank you but but i mean like we i kind of always thought that people would people v who who bought poker training viewed it as for the on the whole as an investment like i'm gonna put in this much it's gonna improve my win rate this much so it's worth it and there are all these sites to choose from i choose this one maybe i choose you know three of them but you know this is one of the best for the for the amount of money in and the time i spend on it and so um you know i think that makes sense and so i hadn't i know obviously that my personal kind of seal of approval you know lends credibility and trust to it and i think probably that's been added too because i've never like i've never had a deal from i've ever i've never promoted anything that i don't that's not mine like that i don't work on um and so i do think that helps but i don't think people sign up because they like me or you know what though i think actually one area that has been really helpful is that we've gotten a lot of pros to make videos for us i run at once and i've been told a number of times like we have our team has been told i'd only make videos for run at once like i'm not sure i want to make videos if i did i would only do it for run at once and i think that's because of me and and i mean kind of our whatever uh values as a company but that kind of reflect mine and so i think we benefited in that way probably more than just directly with with customers or members i i would say so matt i i i don't think there's any true way to to measure reasons for for people science but i i feel like the gaufon challenge against benny right like the the viewers of that yes um there was obviously a lot of hype around it because it was kind of like the first public match of its kind for a long time but um i would like to think and again there's no way me proving this but i think it had as many people show up for it um as it did because it was you and people like you you know if if i if i stream the 100 200 match firstly i would get put in the bin by money because it's very pleased though i'm not challenging you in any way shape or form um but it's just safe to say that like it wouldn't interest as many people um and yeah obviously i can't vouch for the pros that have um created videos for you guys but i definitely understand why they would only make videos videos for you it makes sense to me on like a just on like a human to human level um because as much as this industry revolves around money and like hourly and and dollar ev um it's still safe to say that there are people who don't just make decisions based off of money there's like integrity involved and there's values and there's you know okay right or would i want to associate myself with this person maybe not they're a bit you know so and so on social media they're kind of like you know they're a bit bullish if you will towards other human beings so maybe i'll just you know keep myself at arm's length and yeah it's interesting to yeah i mean poker training is a really interesting business because all uh basically every time maybe not every single example but you're you're never as an employer you're never their primary source of income so like the pros never need you they don't need their jobs there whereas every other job like most people go there and that's their primary source of income by far and you kind of in that way like some leverage that you don't in the in the in poker trading market and so in poker training um not necessarily that you need to use that leverage for uh for evil but in the poker training it is really important that that pros like you and like your company because they don't need you you know a lot of like for a lot of them poker training income you know makes up less than 10 of what they'll make in a year and so yeah like they like do they do it because they like doing it and they think it's worth the extra income but if if they're upset with you they just stop you know like yeah and why wouldn't they um so yeah it's it it's it's so true um not to like try and brag with it but it's the same with with me and commentaries it's actually it's actually something that um it's a it's an inner battle that i've had uh with commentary before because uh when you hang around with poker players um or well at least some of the poke players that i've hung out with um it can be really strange to see how everything that they a lot of their decision making process is based off of hourly and when i then have disclosed how much i get paid for an event you know close people of mine um you know they are sometimes shocked that instead of jumping in a 5-5 or a 10-10 plo game and grinding that for eight hours i would commentate for x amount of hours and firstly uh to those friends of mine not everything is about hourly you know uh there's sometimes you just make decisions because you like things um but the the the main battle um that i've had is companies and i'm not going to mention any names because i get myself in trouble but sometimes companies not understanding that i am a professional poker player and not understanding that i can make uh more money playing poker than i could in terms of like an hourly point of view um doing commentary and i've struggled with that before because i'm just like okay i i'm getting told stuff last minute um there have been situations where the companies that i i work for uh i've been very fortunate in the sense that i've never signed for anyone i i've always just freelanced because i want to have that freedom i want to continue to have that freedom that poke has given me um on like kind of choosing what i do um but yeah sometimes i've kind of just had to like be like guys you do realize that i play poker for a living and you know you need to try and like respect my profession more if you will um and i think once that's been communicated um the results have just been brilliant do you feel they're not respecting your time like expecting you to to drop things or i think i think it must like the thing that makes sense to me is um the okay we need to we'll we'll be we'll be honest and then we'll we'll see whether yeah so in real world money the money that i get paid for commentary is a lot of money for poker hourly uh or as professional poker it's it's not that much money so i'm assuming the way that it's seen from a lot of these people that work for these companies the ones that are you know doing the hiring and firing process and calling me up they're like who the [ __ ] does this kid think he is um like we're paying him x amount of money all we're asking is for him to talk into a mic for eight hours well firstly talking to a mic for eight hours about poker uh when a lot of times just raise folding and keeping the fans and viewers entertained uh is i promise you people think they can do it and trust me i've seen many people try and fail it's a pretty daunting task um but yeah secondly i mean it's just you know um i commentate because i'm just like i love the game i love i love the fact that i can do it you know like i i get to call the action like jesus man i used to grow up listening to these guys you know commentate on your hands on tom duan's hands phil ivey's hands and just be like wow these guys get paid to watch poker and call the action like how [ __ ] amazing is that i get to do that so i try and remind myself of that um as much as possible because there's definitely times where i'm like oh i've got commentary i need to i need to adjust my sleep schedule i need to i need to do this i need to do that like it's going to get in the way of yeah you know this relationship now um and and this has just been like the the year of growth basically and realizations now i try and i i try and just like look it through a different lens where i'm like henry you don't have to commentate you don't have to be calling the action you get to do that and honestly i've just found so much more enjoyment in commentary ever since i've looked at it through that lens where i'm just like there's even if there's a hundred people watching even those [ __ ] 10 people listening uh to the stream that's 10 people that are listening to what i have to say about poker game and the reason why that means so much to me is because i used to be one of those 10 people i used to be one of those hundred or a thousand people that would listen to it and for me that's just that's just amazing because i don't know like the impact that it had on my life if i can have that impact on just one person's life yeah then that's right that's that's really cool i achieved my job a great perspective i hadn't i hadn't thought about it that way yeah that's awesome yeah i i get to do it like i don't have to do it i get to do it and it's uh it's it's insane how many people you know will message me and and before again um especially like during like my depression end of last year and beginning of this year um it was always just like oh like why like just leave me alone like i don't i don't want to you know talk to you i don't want to receive your message on twitter or instagram and now it's just like henry man these people you know they have the same love uh well okay maybe not the same love but they also love the game yeah they're tuning in because they love the game and for them to just like listen to your commentary and have banter with you and then like be able to message you for them for some people that's like a highlight of their day and the fact that i get to be you know a ray of sunshine uh in someone's eye or put a smile on someone's face like [ __ ] me man like i can die happy tomorrow if i'm getting to do that uh like i get paid for it yeah so you know yeah no again another tangent that's just a class yeah it's an awesome brand yeah no it's an awesome perspective and it's true um it is it is lucky and i mean i a lot of us are very lucky to uh get to do what we do and it's very very easy to lose sight of that um quickly so easy yeah to your point about um kind of poker play i mean going back to training site like we obviously we know we know poker very well as a poker training site and so all of our uh video makers uh are pros i guess we we call them but uh all of our pros we try to make it easy on them especially you know anybody who's like kind of a a super high stakes pro we're just like what can we do to make video making easier for you we can like and you know for some they'll just talk and we'll put together a powerpoint um we actually just signed somebody recently and actually flew people out across across the atlantic ocean i was forgetting which ocean is which okay so like europe to america or vice versa yeah and try not to give too many clues no it's just okay sorry i forgot what josh which ocean was which and uh to to help record like first several videos um yeah because yeah it's it's their time is valuable and you have to yeah you know anything you can do um you know first for some of them they do it because they like doing it they do it because they like run it once and it's still less than the hourly they could make playing poker and so yeah how do we you know reduce the number of hours that they spend on it and still get a quality product is uh yeah it's important and i think probably even even beyond the the fact that we reduce the time they spend they probably just appreciate uh like you you know kind of how you felt it wasn't appreciated um for you like they appreciate that we we get it we value their time well uh just so you know i've always felt appreciated by running once and by your team and yourself so thank you for that thank you um it it was out here kind of like having this this conversation and talking about hourly um and it when you're just talking now about helping this person out um to make their lives you know uh somewhat more more comfortable um it kind of sparked a couple of topics in my head the the main one being that um i think a lot of us are you know we discover poker and before you know it you're good at the game yeah you're making you're making a living from it and a lot of us fall into the game yeah a lot of us don't even get into it like in fact i could probably say that the majority of people that are at the top of like the food chain didn't intentionally get into poker it was either like introducing them by friends or family or they somehow discovered it on an app like you don't sit down when you're 16 and be like hmm right i know what i'm going to do i don't want to be a lawyer i'm going to be a professional poker player i mean i guess some of us do but yeah so you know you go through your career as a poker player and then for me personally like you wake up and you're 26 and you're like [ __ ] okay right but i'm like lacking uh in other skill sets so now so now like one of these like one of the things that i've been doing recently is something that i'm really enjoying about discovering like more about myself is what can i learn from poker and what can i learn from commentary and just like the poker industry and transfer that into other areas of life like what could i because i want to have an exit plan i don't want to be playing poker when i'm 50. i don't want to be you know at least i don't think i do maybe i will i don't know yeah you don't yeah you never know yeah you never know you never know but like i'm i'm always trying to like come up with new creative ideas and like challenging myself and improving in other areas like uh one of my uh one people i speak to she has like got me into like like doing like painting and just like getting more creative and just like exploring different things um and at first it was always just like oh like why would i want like i don't want to paint yeah i'm 26 i'm a guy i don't paint you know i've never played and she was like yeah but you said to me that you used to enjoy painting when you're younger i was like yeah but now i play poker for a living so painting's kind of like taking the back seat so we'll try it just like see what happens then and obviously like trying new things um and just trying to take uh important lessons from from poker and the reason i mentioned painting is because with painting the lesson i had to take from poker was patience patience with myself because i went into it thinking like this is going to be a walk in the park right like it's just like it's just putting brush to canvas and it wasn't it was one of the most challenging things ever did and it's just having a bit of patience and and practice and just kind of again that re-confirmation that um things do take time you can't be hard on yourself if you don't get it first time round and just having more understanding and love and compassion for yourself goes a long way in poker and in life yeah all right that's it i want to thank you for watching i want to thank henry again for coming on and sharing his experience with me and us and i will see you next time i'll just leave you with that um look forward to your comments and questions and feedback suggestions what you'd like to see more of what you'd like to see less of and i'll see you next time this is phil take care

2021-11-08 06:46

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