Platicas con un Hacker - Hak5
Este. Video is staining, less poor locator recommend, Oh active Arlo subtitlers day to preference, eeeh. Siren. -. Fallacy. Here the delegate can be an English, philosopher, thank. You being here I'm so glad to having you absolutely. It's. Really a pleasure. All, right guys so we're gonna do just a couple things I'm gonna be asking you seven, questions write. It right up there then and we're gonna do like, this all day I mean yeah that you are gonna see we're gonna play a little bit later it's kinda game you will see all, right so first of all I want. To know how. How, would you guys describe. The. Hacker, well. Personally, I think hacker, is somebody that is not the Hollywood, industry, norm, you, always think of a hacker as being somebody who's wearing the black hoodie sitting. At their computer, in the middle of a basement pens darkness, like, them just like that yeah like that but to me it's somebody it doesn't matter what you look like or what you wear or how. You paint your nails or what hair color you have it's somebody who's just interested. In learning, things work and, it doesn't even have to be technology, it, could be anything in the world are, you a cooking. Hacker are, you a car. Hacker are. You an IOT, cat hacker it doesn't matter you just want to learn how things work so you take them apart and you put them back together and maybe, you put them back together so, that they do something brand-new that nobody has ever thought of you're creative, with that ability. Jenna. I think you hit the nail on the head when it comes to like, curiosity, you know it's like the, autodidact. Is the person who just has a thirst for knowledge and just can't stop teaching themselves, if there's one skill that you can learn as a hacker that will help you to write your entire career it's learning how to learn and. No one can make you a hacker but yourself, you, know so there's a lot of great educational. Outlets. Such, as ourselves in many schools and things of that nature, but. Really but. Really like, being a hacker is like a mindset, it's a way of thinking and approach that you take to things and I like to summon up a saying basically it's, breaking, down any complex, system and finding, a way to have maybe something you want that's novel that nobody thought about within the confines, of whatever that system may be whether, it's air traffic, control, or, the.
Internet. All right the second question is, how. Did you get started on hacking maybe, you could tell us a little story about it I think, there's just started. I. Just got yeah, I was, in that generation where I I grew, up and I watched the movie wargames, and I was like I saw David Lightman you know like making, a phone free phone call from a payphone and I'm like how do you do that and so. This was back in the bulletin board system days so I started, I would say googling, but I started asking around to the SIS ops and then suddenly, you get like access. To private boards, the next thing you know you're downloading text, files you, know which, was the way to disseminate, knowledge before, YouTube and I, just could not stop learning, and I remember one night being. Like I'm gonna go make a beige box and and I couldn't remember what the plans were but I remembered that I read about it I just couldn't sleep until I make this I'm like you, know insomnia, and so. I take my handset and I cut it and I put it or not valid Gator Clips but I put paper clips one, on the red wire and one. On the on, the yellow wire and I go and clip it up to the thing and nothing happens that I'm like why didn't it work I go back and read the thing. Again it turns out it was like the red wire and the green wire that I was supposed to use or you read the black and, and. Finally got its work and I got dial tone in that first moment of getting dial tone on the, side of my house outside of a box as opposed. To inside of my house legitimately. Was. Like an eye-opener and that like tone, resonated. With me and carried. On with everything that we do today. Nice. My start was a little, bit well. Much later in to life than dare is, I didn't really start getting into hacking until, I started. In middle school and my first experience, was like, understanding. That there's actually programming, there's actually code on the back end of a website so, I learned about like viewing, source and copying and pasting HTML. Which is so stupid. But. It was cool because I was a I was a kid and I didn't know what I was doing and I felt like such a such. A cool kid being able to figure this out and then when I started on the 95 my. First like real introduction, into learning how to hack something myself was when I got to hack my mates in the weed and I, was able to download all of these homebrew, video games and I remember, that segment so well because it taught me so, much just about learning. To break things and to be able to make, them do things they're not supposed to do it. Put, me down it. Put me down through this curve this learning curve of trying to understand, how everything works on the back end so now I have all sorts of consoles at home that I want to hack and now I have all sorts of computers, that I want to figure out. I will, open up the back of a computer, that says it cannot be upgraded just. To see if I can like solder on new Ram it's. Fine. Ok. And the third one is. With. Your. Favorite, packer. Darrin. That's. My inspiration oh. Really, yeah I think you're telling me to go first Oh. Our, than you're my favorite a hacker. Interesting. Lee ever since I first got started like you've always really pushed me to succeed, and you've always pushed me to learn more and anytime, I had a question. Help me along the way and, I. Mean eventually I started understanding all, this stuff on my own so I didn't have to ask her too many questions, but you, really like told, me like yes you can do it so you're, kind of a cheerleader for me now. Watching, how much you have done with programming. The different devices that we saw on X 5, seeing, how you've, gone off and done TV, shows about hacking and all the amazing things that you've done a really inspirational. That's. So cool to hear when. If, you asked me 10 years ago I might have like rattled off like Mike Osmond arctangent, or. Jason. Street or Johnny, long or innate there's so many rocks estimates industry, but, now I would say that my answer is like is he around here at glitch as a. Perfect example and I would say that what's interesting about that that answer is it's our peers it's really a flat model it's not like you know there's the the ones that I I look up to are on all the same level I actually look up to somebody who, looks.
Up To me and that's a beautiful thing about this community, is that we're all like kind of on the same level helping, each other out all being cross, inspired, by each other you, know there was just recently a a, wireless. Demonstration, where both. Cinge, and Sabbath, so a sense post an hak5 basically. Did, very much the same research. Into, the same kind of wireless attacks, and then but, completely, unbeknownst, to each other so, it's really interesting the way that there's like you know there's creative, juices flowing and this is a community where, we're all embracing, each other so, it's. It's, really great i wouldn't say that there's like a hierarchy, at all and that's one of the things that i really love about this community. What. Was the thing that drove you start. Doing a crime. You. Started the company, well. You. Know that the gadgets are a totally different story I would say that the very origin, of it was I was dealing with some grief I was. Dealing with some really human. Elements. Of life and it was I. Could. Have easily just turned, it into I, just gotta turn to a bottle easily. And gone down a dark path but. Instead I realized. That there, was a community that, had accepted, me when I was an awkward teenager and. I joined IRC, and the. People there in the hacking community in, the in the mid 90s were. You know I so. Welcoming, that, when later, in like the mid 2000s, when, I was in a dark place and needed an outlet I turned back to the hacking community which. Was supportive, and when I remembered, the, best times and life growing up as a teenager it, was writing. Easy --nz and contributing, to the text, files and the the, hacker community that way so, I looked well what's the landscape today and YouTube had just started so, I was like I'm gonna make the, same thing I've done in text file form but, for a video generation and, it, was a way. For me to process grief and give me a creative, outlet and what I found in return was more, support than I could have ever imagined, that has not just supported, me but, supported, countless. Other people and then inspired, so, many more the way that I was inspired as a kid so, I'm just, grateful to be able to cheerlead, hacking.
I. Don't know that you were yeah. It. Really works. You. Into. It well, we were fans of the same podcast. Up in Toronto that's. How we met because we're both like, fans, of this old-school podcast, before podcasting. Was even podcasting, called pure ownage with. Like google games yeah. So. We ended up having mutual, friends, and I was invited to move out to Virginia by the hack House guys by Darren and his coworkers and, when I moved out there I was very scared about starting on the show so I at first when I started I was just doing camera work behind, the scenes but it looked really interesting what, they were doing on stage, and the different segments, that they were talking about and I looked really exciting, so, he asked me to do my first segment which was reviewing. An open source video game. And, even though I was so, bad at it it was just so interesting be able to learn something completely. New and I, found that I had a passion for it so I just kept, on going and now, that, I come to events like this and I meet people who are big fans of fact five that's, what continues, to keep me going because they say to me like hey I'm so excited to meet you because you helped me graduate, college or you helped me graduate, university, like you so. It's it just inspires. Me to to, and it drives me and. To keep on doing, the show every single week because, I know there's people out there that not. Necessarily. Depend on it but, it motivates them to continue, learning too so it's kind of a train it's, a trade off for us as well as coming. Back to the hacker mindset Shannon, didn't only just learn to be a hacker she embraced that mindset because the, studio at the time when, she was joining, hack five in our fourth year production, we, had hacked together studio, we all did that together and even to this day even just, this year in her new office in Auckland she packed together a studio because we don't do it like NBC, and CBS and, all of the major networks we do it on a hacker shoestring, budget and we make it work and and, Shannon has showed us. I. Love. It it's so much fun and I just like insert inspiring, other young women I met a young, girl today, was. Such a big fan of the show that she freaked out when she saw me, picture. Like. I loved, it, it. Was a yeah, it was the best moment I won't remember that forever just, because it changed her life. Maybe. Building advised were. So. It's very early on in my hacker career, when I was just downloading, text files about building, phone freaking boxes.
One. Of the biggest challenges it was not, getting. Started like reading, those box plans was easy going out and buying a Radio Shack tone dialer and as six point five five three six megahertz crystal, from. Mouser or digi-key and soldering it on that, was easy, and then programming, it to do the five asterisks, to emulate the sounds that a quarter makes to convince a payphone into making free phone calls that was easy what, was third was. To, take that to the next level because for a lot of people I'm sure who, were reading those text files I don't, know what the percentage is but I can imagine that many were like cool, parlor, trick and probably, moved on with their lives in whatever direction that they're destined to be but, were the hackers among us that, just were, not happy. Enough with the parlor trick that was getting the free phone call we, wanted to know that's cool that I made a better soldered, a thing on a thing that gave me a free phone call but how does that work and the hardest thing that I had as a kid then just, getting into the scene was, getting information was. Learning, how is it that these things work, the, automated coin toll system then the dual-tone multi-frequency in, the post that. Had pulse amplitude modulation time division multiplexing, all the things all the elements, that build the phone network were, like we. Didn't have Wikipedia, you know so, I had to ride my bicycle around the neighborhood looking for, linemen. From the telephone company outside. Their trucks working outside and I would go up to them and rattle off some tech, like I just did and they, would turn to me and realize I had to light my eyes and they, would give me manuals. But. That was the hardest part was just getting the information. And now you look around and if you wanted to download the ccitt, Blue Book and learn the ins and outs of international, telephone switching, you can if you wanted to know everything, there is to know about TCP and everything related to it you can and I think that's so, wonderful how, the community, has has. Embraced, the hacker ethos, of the free information. When. I first started off I felt like I had to prove myself. You. Know judge me on the same level as Darren and like all of his amazing accomplishments.
And It was very hard getting started in still having the self-confidence to do it every single week but. Eventually just. You know again. Like you mentioned being a woman in Tekken and as I, mentioned to events like this and meeting other people who we're. An inspiration, to really. Motivated, me to keep going so it was very challenging, at first just. From for my own self confidence. Imposter. Syndrome dealing, with that every single week I still, have impostor, syndrome to, this day when I get on a stage and, I do a talk in front of a live audience it's. So scary, sometimes. But you have to do it and I just keep on saying yes whenever I get those opportunities and. It's really helped me, kind, of step out of what I'm used to, do. Something, that makes me nervous just, because I feel like it's going to help me grow as a person and, I know that it's continue, inspiring. I. Would. Say don't. Be. Don't. Just take at face value the, tools there's so many great tools and resources, to learn to use those tools whether, it's you, know the latest pen testing framework, or even any of our tools. You. Know because it's great that they do a thing but. What's. Even better is knowing why they do that thing and how that thing even works so, you, know you may get started like I said like me it was getting a free phone call and then going down the rabbit hole of learning how that the ins and outs work you know you may copy over a bunny. Script or a ducky script onto your hack, five device and like plug it into a computer how to do something and that's cool but, then you, might want, to know like why is it that that PowerShell, thing works the way it did or you, know what, is the SMB, server running on the. Bash. Planning SSH in and like start learning to bash and SSH and all the protocols and why, CIFS. Is totally broken and all of the other, in that and thankfully, we're in an era where finding that information is so much easier. Experiment. Okay I gotta, show you some pictures and, then you just have to tell me what, it what. It comes just. From, the top of your mind okay the first picture is this one. Inspiration. Hollywood. Uphill. Battle. Hi. Connie. Also. The person that calls us for tech support yeah. I. Love. You Kevin. Best. Hackers, ever. The. Background, the, trustor. Tequilas that's yeah exactly, the background for. Its. We're trusting technology from, chile, no. Required. Watching i. Was. Zero cool, zero. Cool crashed, 1,507. Systems. In one day biggest. Crash in history front. Page New York Times August have 1988. Okay. Next generation. I'm. Going to quote the mentor and say this is our world now the world of the electron and the switch the beauty of the body. What. Well. You should definitely check out haq5. Haq5. More. In youtube.com, slash. Hack 585. And, check. On our products, to pack five year that's. Where we do all of the different things that we've created and built and some of the products that you reviewed and showed tutorials, up on the show we're, definitely going, to make sure you can get more of us and your needs - yeah, super excited about that and if, you want to see what I'm doing outside, of had five at.
Snubs On Twitter that's a new BM. And. Just, hack but just you know it's 13. Years now of resources. So dig in and get, involved in the community there's, a really thriving IRC. There's a forums, it's, a really just a it's, a place where all hackers belong join, us Wiser's. In. The doobly-doo yeah. Next. Time. Adios.