Origin of Flutter, Dart 2.0, E-Commerce with Flutter, & More (#AskFlutter at Flutter Live)

Everybody. We're back and we're here with Eric Seidel one of the leaders for for. The flutter project when a family's the project, here. To answer some questions and I have a few hero questions already wim is still taking a look at the stream and so, let's. Start off can you tell us a little bit more about the flutter origin, story because I've told it to people flutters. Started as a quest for speed and, I'd love to know that I'm not lying so, you. Know that's totally right flutter did started as a quest for speed so. Flutter in its very earliest, incarnation, was, just a very cut-down, version of Chrome okay, we took chrome and we just allowed. Ourselves to break compatibility, at the web and chop. Out lots, of stuff and see how fast we can make it go things that were in there for older standards compatibility, with older things just all sorts of things the. Thing, that we built wasn't, able to render any webpages but it. Could run our benchmarks, and when we ran our benchmarks, they were 20 times faster and. So. We knew we had something there okay. So you had, a rendering engine and then I've heard there was sort of a search for a language at, that point can. You tell us about that at one point flutter was written in JavaScript, is that right that's right so, we, actually went through several iterations we. Did have a rendering engine it, was all in C++, originally, and. Then we started writing more and more JavaScript, code, eventually. We had some trouble with the JavaScript code and so we went searching for another language. And then eventually all, the simple clothes died away or most of it and. Once. We have found dart and that worked so well for us we just wrote more and more and more dart code. And. How where did flutter the name come, from so we got we got a quick I saw that in the stream earlier where the name flutter come and we actually have heard this story before but it's so good we happen. So. It turns out naming is really, hard. So. We did. These things called trademark, searches where you you, know make, sure that you can, use the name in various countries and all that and. They're, not cheap, and they take a long time and we did a bunch of them and we, didn't find any, names that would like to use and. So we, but. It turns out that Google. Has a cache, of names that. They've from, companies. That they've bought on occasion we acquire companies, yeah, are they turned down a name for whatever reason, and that's, what funder came from it was a small startup that they had bought and. The. Product, had turned down but the name was still there and that's, how we ended up being cluttered. Alright. Well, let me get to you got, another question here. This. One comes from Twitter, the again is a luchador. From. Cluj-napoca, and Romanian so one is Sarah. And can. You talk a little bit about the evolution of darts, and how flutter influenced. Perhaps some of the features that were in dart 2.0, so. Were there things that flutter needed from dart that the dart team and sort of came. Back and said yeah we can we can put those in the language for you Oh, totally. There's so much that's been added, to Dart in the last few years specifically.

The. Trailing commas for the formatting, the. Into, double, peyote. Support, in general that was a huge, feature that was done by the dart team. Lots. Of you, know flutter specific, performance, enhancements. Just. Lots and lots of work that's gone into Dart. Okay. So. This one comes also from Twitter this is from, terrip. Felis 30 will. Google. Introduce a flutter, certification. Program, similar to ones that exist. For Android. You know so I've heard that, there are these other certification. Programs from. The other products, which is awesome, I think. That those are things that we would think about a little bit later on I mean we just hit 100 today, so. I think that's a good idea but. I think that's probably gonna take a little while okay. All. Right and this is this is one last one sort of a general question for. A lot of people watching you. Know, how. Can someone looking to contribute, to flutter best. Make an impact so if you're watching this and you're like you know I really like fun or like this community I would like to be part of it as a contributor, what. Are some of the best ways to do. That so. Then. The fact that you're hiring yeah. It. Is true we, are always hiring we. Have tons of open positions. To. Contribute, flutters so we do have a bunch of documentation, I'm gonna github about exactly, this and there's lots of ways to contribute beyond. The statement engineering, there's. Tons of three hours to do there's, obviously all these people who are running events, today. So. Yeah there's there's lots of lots of engineering specific tasks or lists on github, bug-fix, we even have an easy fix label and help literally bucks. Both. The engine side for those who like C++. The. Fleur flutter. Framework side sure for those who like Dart there's, lots of knocks up on github about exactly this okay, of. Course we have the package ecosystem, and all sorts of stuff okay. Excellent. So. That's about all of our time I think do we have any other questions for Erica you want to touch on, the price I wanna dance we've, pretty much run at a time thank you so much for joining us and. Talking to everybody on our screen and you.

Know Enjoy the rest of flutter life thanks. For letting up and talking and. You can take that with you and exit. Right up thank. You so much. Well. I've got a couple of questions, we. Have. Well. Let me ask this one, this. Is a question. Because. And. We design and develop apps, for e-commerce, businesses. With butter. This. Is one of those questions where, I didn't, have to pay the person asked this but I wanna the. Answer is people are already already, doing it right right, you know Alibaba, is. One. Of the largest e-commerce companies, in the world and they're using butter for their app absolutely. We. Have a sample, that money that's right okay so. Can, we see that yes you might you if you watch the keynote you already saw it a little bit let me go ahead and pull up that's. Right when will got up and talked about material. Design and. Let me zoom in so if any concern and it has an e-commerce app built into it so. We have in the. Material team built, several. Samples, to show off what material could do the new stuff launched at i/o 18 and how, well you can put it to work and funded and one. Of the demos is shrine which. Is a shopping, app and, so, we, took the work that they did we're like well let's put a little little, state management into this and, we made a new, scope model with it and, put a shopping part into it and put, it on the den for all samples repo so it's up had flutter slash samples, you can look for shrine you can download that right now. We. Go to my laptop here we go cradles, just about done. This. Is an example of a an, e-commerce, app and, so. I could just click through next year and. Go right on so we have you know a list of products just like you would expect I. Think, will is himself yes, he is in here himself as a model, because. We needed a model that day I guess for. The photos team and, so you can click on things to add them to your shopping cart, and you can see the material team, of course has put a lot of time into this the, expanding, bottom sheet for. The preview of what's in the cart I know they're very proud of oh it looks so cool, but. You can add things just like that I can click on the bottom sheets and, it expands, into the carts I can. Come in here and take things out of it there's a model you know managing, this state of what's in the cart and tallying, up things. But. Yeah obviously ecommerce, is a huge sector of the, mobile app ecosystem it's. Very important, so certainly flutter. You. Know the team had that in mind as they were building everything out for flutter. Yeah works. Great. What, else we got, I've. Got some live questions okay. Let, me pick one. Is, there a way to embed, native. UI for, and the example, they use if can, I put Apple pay into an app and, have a flutter. Button, that invokes. Yeah. We can talk a little bit about that so the Google Maps plugin. You already saw it'll fill up demonstrator, that's. Music under the hood is. Something called platform killer and so platform. You there's a Android. View and there's, a you like it and. These are the widgets that sort of manage, a. Platform. A native platform, view and sort of fit it into the world of flood and so. Those. Are available you, could go and try, them out on your view and see how that goes there's, a bit of a cost to. The work they have to do under the hood so I wouldn't I wouldn't, just start throwing thirty of them into every flutter screen that you have that wouldn't be that wouldn't be a good implementation but if you have one specific, view that you really need to, have like, something on control that you've invested a lot of time in building or something. From the platform, you really need a particular piece of the platform, line those. Have been added now and you can start putting the working, in, your flutter ops. Platform. Bees. I have another question this, is from Seattle.

From. Another, pressure from the US they're. Wondering if there are any continuous. Integration, and. Continuous, deployment. Options. For flutter apps so I think we got scooped a little bit by the keynote right yeah. So. Yeah obviously never code in the in the keynote you saw their solution for this and they've, partnered with this actually came in after the keynote thought maybe they want to know what the whole laughs okay. There. Are more I for, our temporal samples for example we as Travis because. It's free for, open-source projects. And. It works great with flutter there's, also Cirrus, I believe the engineering, team uses for the SDK itself they, have some really intense use cases for advanced testing, and they, have found that fits their particular needs. But. Yeah I mean flutter the, tools for flutter they they, run on Linux they run on the command line you can run tests from the command line very easily so, they. Fit, very well into, CI, CVC sticks. And. I'm sure there's going to be additional ones so one. Thing that we wanted. To point out is that if, there's something that you want them is not, available. Yet you, can actually go in and file an issue we're. Flattered that is true yeah give that back so you know it's it's not only as flutter open in terms of the code and be able to see it it's developed, in the open so you, can actually go in and take a look at what the team's working on it's right you could do it yourself you. Can also do that yeah, that's, good. Well. Here's a good way short, one how, about dart on the server side we. Are kind of already touched on we, already touched on that but you yes, and you know you can see that I want, I just want I'd set it that question, just because I wanted to emphasize that dart, is a general-purpose programming language, it, does run, to, as you said earlier we, are focusing. On mobile. Apps right now but, there are people who use start including, us on the server who, use it for web apps and so forth and you've seen some of that come out this time and, I think it's only gonna get better and in fact you're. Gonna start seeing it on more and more devices, as well. In. Fact you, know let me continue with this one here's a question from India it, says what are the new widgets, that are about to come out in the next flutter update I love that sure let's let's touch on this. You. Go into, or. So. The easiest way to know what the flick can we get this a lot you know what's the team working on that's coming out soon and the easiest way is to bypass, us. And go straight to the team itself through github so, if, I go to the vein photo repo here. You'll notice open. Issues for feature requests, and bug fixes you can take a look at those, but. There's also the project's tab which the team uses so. You can see what they're working on sort of in real time the, IEP plug-in you can see here there's. A lot of stuff being done with Cupertino, by Joe. And Matt though. The engineers working on that at SAP you can see the work on that is nearing, the end of its sprints and some, other things so you can come in here you're yourself, can come in and just see what the team is working on and that might well answer your question if, you don't.

See The thing that you think is really important, there's. Likely an issue open for it already if not you can create one if there is one don't, want to put a comment on it and say I'm building with flutter this is important, to me because I, need it for this use case you. Can put a thumb up on it the team really. Loves that feedback they really like getting that and being able to feel like they're staying close to what the community needs so, it's very valuable for that so. I'm going to change gears just a little bit because I, just. Noticed somebody's standing nearby okay, so let me we got let me read the question for, it so, the, question is what, is the best way to achieve state, management, and a flutter app and since. It's Phillip yeah well, let me let me finish the question they're currently using scope model, but. It seems like it's, maybe not the best fit for their app okay, so they want to know what's the right thing to do okay well come on join us mister, you are the perfect person for this one Phillip, here is. Fresh. From the keynote this is Phillip everybody one, of our Debra compared, already, know I'm, careful. That I think about it kicked a video cable for a second you're gonna make all the guys in the back go nuts so, careful, there actually I think it did just disconnect, so the question there was somebody who, was using scope model but they said it's maybe not the right fit for their app right now so and I know state management as a mission of yours so yes what, do you so how do you get to scope model in the first place and then what let you go, on to after that right. Yeah you. Know a lot of people are asking from state management science all the time and that's a good question I don't think there's one and, smooth - you know everyone and always depends for many things it, depends on the app it depends on the. You. Know previous experience, all them I think, if. You're. Like. School. Bottle is a really good song and for, many people it's it, is what they need because, you know it's I think it's a pretty simple to understand, it gives you all the things that you want. It. Is a little less reactive. Than, maybe, some people who bought so. A lot of people will. Use. Something like you, know reactive. Extensions maybe, some people are super, into Redux, and then, we, have a fun Redux. So. I. Mean. It, depends on what you want what your inputs are and stuff I. Think. It really just depends on like one of the patterns you've used before and, enjoy you know I think that is one of the biggest factors if you can use the Redux in the past and really loved it there's nothing wrong with using Redux right looks great with butter if, you used for, use to streams then block things like that are very. Very. Good yes yes and it's also you, know I would be really interested to know like what are the limitations, that, this. Person, sees, because. Obviously, there, are things that could. You. Know like for example scope. Model doesn't really important, that well with streams. Like yes, it. Notifies the rebuilds which would sort of on its own way rather than providing streams, the way block were died for something it you, can still use it right like but, it's, gonna feel dirty, to be like listening. To stream, and then notify, listen. So. Everything, is possible I yeah. I guess I don't have a single.

Answer, Which, is fine right do, you think about in the future there might be like different, ways of managing state, that you don't even know about yeah, sure I, was actually researching, where I'm always researching, it and last. Week I found out that there's new thing that, is pretty impressive it's not completely. Baked yet but, you know it's it's always something, new and I think Claire is very, young. So it will have, this kind of. Like. A plethora of different ways to, manage. State and, in. The end like many people would tell you you know state, management is building. Your app right like next. To are you sure you will build your layout and stuff like this but, it's always also. After. That it's how, do I manage the state of yeah and so. You. Could to go all, the way from you. Know just using state, and state for widgets which. I don't recommend but, it can be you. Do a long way just with State for widgets instead, of rolling your own you know that's that's not necessarily, a bad way to go for a lot of people coming right, up onboarding themselves in fluttering yeah yeah I think what what's what we are not doing a really good job at is that many, people will just you know start, further they, will see the clicking. Gap where you like incrementing, the counter and, they, think oh this, is how this is the way we do manage state and that's true. For a single. Widget but, it's often, not true for the app right so and we're, not really doing. Much to like tell people yeah like maybe at least do something. With scope model right and I was actually talking to somebody earlier and. They were they. Made. A point and I think I agree with it but I wanted your opinion on it they, said that flutter. Sort, of takes, things far enough that, we can actually invent, new types of state management. That, are specific. To flutter pick em to dart now, as of the characteristics. Of dart being you, know functional. And having streams and things like that it's. It's just so it's, my only guy I was recently. Last week I was talking to a person who came from, Android. Right and. For. Many people like that for me when I came to flower first and - you, know reactive. Programming it. Is kind of a change. Of mindset right and and so. Again. We probably should be a should. Be more. Better. At, explaining. Like okay so for, example it's. Not, a big deal if you rebuild, the whole app once, in a while it's like you know for for an Android, person, or. Example like me like many years. Ago I hope you private. Like. You're not I hope that you're not recreating.

The Whole UI from. Scratch, but in for sure, I know right yeah that's me. So. We have we need to like you know but we did have one push and they came up I think from ah yes, an important people. They have requested they, want you to know that they'd love to see the source for your timeline app if it's at all possible its. I have. To say it's not just mine it's also two dimensions, right and. We are going. To release it but right now it's a little. Bit ugly so. We want, to like make it a little nicer for us it was that like, last, minute brunch that. Kind, of kills so what you're telling us it will be available yes not telling us when but hopefully yeah yeah okay, okay, well, thank you so much please take the microphone oh yeah. Well, do. You have any livestream, questions yeah let's take the stick. A little ice cream. People. Recommending, their favorite approaches to state management. Well. That's good we'll have people sort of arguing for different forms of state management yeah good, here's. What how does flutter, compare to react native which is something we've heard ah this. Is an excellent question so that's so. Important. To compare, different products, to know there but, what. I worry about is that sometimes, it turns into sort of an arguing, about what's better and. I don't think that helps anybody you know me, personally I, think, reacted. It was actually a brilliant thing for them to do it's a took something that was made, for the web and then react and, they said hey we could we, can take that technology, and, apply, it to native apps and that's a brilliant thing, flutter. Is, similar, in some ways and that we're also reactive, but it's also solving, a slightly different problem. I think. I don't, expect react native to go away you, know I wouldn't. Tell people oh for your diemagnetic, just use butter there, for different things and that's a good thing and, we were talking about something, something like that the other day yeah. I mean this this question, comes up a lot and I think it's. Obviously. We believe in front of e SDK and what it can do and that it can play. An important, role in software, and helping people but. It's, still just one more tool and everybody's tool about right like the fact that flutter exists, does it mean that react native isn't, a good way to make apps obviously, for many. Many developers, it is and the same is true of native development on iOS and Android those things didn't stop being good ways to the labs, it's just that flutter is another way to do it and. It's, you know we think it's a really good one that's. About it it's two positives, rather than our, yeah. So, I've noticed some other people standing by who's in the corner say. We've got several. Questions, that came from people that, to, me are more questions about the community, it's like for. Example one person has winner. They're going to be a. Way to play sounds, and flutter and stuff like that and there's a sounds. In flutter yeah there are there, are plugins in the pub directory, and we're playing sounds, and stuff like that and they as far as I know they were all written by third, parties. Open-source. Developers and we have one yeah. I. Can see oh come on Simon. So. Some of you some, of you may know this man that's our next guest this is Simon Linus I am London local how, are you, welcome.

To London. Just. Talking about the community, you. Know I can, you talk a little bit about your involvement with the community and I mean we've, we've, done a lot to sort of build. The, online, conversation, that that's what, I sort, of invoke to everyone. We've. Set up the study group we've, now got the photic community medium, that's right and I, mean, everyone is welcome to publish. Articles I mean we we we invite everyone to submit articles and. We'll review them and, make sure they're setting out on a schedule, which, really helps, making. Sure that everyone's getting information about, Fattah that everyone really needs get. Going immediately. How. Do we let the community know that you, know they, shouldn't ask us when are when is Google going to build this or that you know this, is gonna succeed if we all work together on things like that I mean this is it I mean what we've seen with. Especially with what we've - you sign up is the flutter community. Github. Organization right, and what. We've done is any of these projects, that the. Community. Have built that. Want it owned by the community all. Right so this this sort how, is that scenario of a developer, and owner wants to maintain their home business project right. You know they side up with an idea saying we want this one hour flutter app I made this one app now. It's out there, who's. Gonna maintain this product it will submit PR people, submit fixes, not, was merging them so we're here to help that's. Brave that's an awesome thing to do. Well, I see, another commuter do you mind if I swap you out for hello okay. What did you. Buy, the way thank you so much Simon, we, have another community, yes. This. Is hell welcome. To. Be here thank you so. Internet hello hello, Internet probably, today. See. You so, when, I saw you I was happy because you you're the guy behind it's all widgets calm, that's right that's which is great so could you tell us a little bit about that sure it's all widgets is a site, open, site for listing clutter apps, any. Developer, in the world is free to publish their app doesn't need to be in the App Store let's, do the open source if you're proud of something you built to want to showcase it you can submit the site. So. We. All need a place to do that occasionally curl about something that we've built how. Would you how many apps you have so, far we're about 200 I, mean. Let's just in the site obviously in flutter there are thousands of apps on a listing to, me more interesting than the number is the the rate of growth where.

It's. 100, 100, 200, to go half that time. Is. Going down, what's. What, are some of the most interesting ones you have I'm gonna have a 200 apps to question so, what I find interesting is when when we when app, is submitted to get share with the critter followers and. Every once in a while someone will message me and say this app it can't be in flutter doesn't look like a flutter app and I got a harvest and I got a scrambling, and I messaged a developer, on every time it turns out yet it's a flutter AB and the thing I think I've taken from this is just there's no look of a flutter flutter. Wrap to look like anything really, just limited by your imagination, and. All this thing of apps controls. Also, I think. We need a new campaign, what does the flutter app look like, anything. Anyone. What. You. Also did a podcast or, started a podcast series, recently right that's right it's a widgets initially was going to be a podcast, Thomas. Berke I can even make more him into a website pretty much at. The time Simon, Lightfoot and Scott still we're also working on our, own podcast, I kind of teamed up David's. Website, now, that sites kind of finished that time to go back to the pockets of you so just started working on it as a. Group. You had on so far that's amazing developers. Marco. Rohan. Home. Are grooving. Cipta, and. If you go to each comic see the list podcasts. Put on the top right anyone, watching you were welcome down the podcast just. Go to the side anyone, can send a request to the interviewed and the idea is to the goal is just for developers to share their experiences. To, say you, know what the backgrounds, are what. They're learning, they'll, share best practices. So. We actually we preach starts at the end of our second block semester you stay right here and. One. Of the things I wanted to make sure to mention the thing that I love about it's all widgets comm is that, you can filter based on whether the app is open source or not right, and then when you go in to look at the app it'll have a link to the source which is the greatest, thing ever so, you can look go look at it it's all widgets calm look through the apps when you see something like oh I would love to know how they did that you could go see how they did that and it's great that one, thing sure, I would say that you know these thought projects obviously time and resources and I'm incredibly lucky to work with two amazing partners Shalom Dave I love very much.

Look. At him waste enjoy and if people are on time to what these projects. It's. A lot of fun.

2018-12-21 14:01

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