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Thank, you. You. All. Right so that, president Trump, meeting, the amar of the state of Carter, you, are watching Fox 10 News now, part of Fox 10 Phoenix comm this. Reminder, we will be having a very, special stream, today here on news now Mark. Zuckerberg Facebook CEO, will be testifying in front of Congress today, for the Senate committee. We'll, have that for you at 2:00 p.m. Eastern, and it's going to be on a special event. Stream. We already have that ready you're. Watching news now. You. So. I hope we can work across the, with every level of government and private industry to continue, the good work that we've set in place if, we follow the law pursue. Goals achievable. With modern technology, and control methods and collaborate. We can continue, to grow the economy while, reducing emissions we. Must also never lose sight of the fact that the American, dream of economic, prosperity is what, provided, our citizens, citizens. With, two centuries, of continuous. Advancements, in health and development and which, itself, has enabled our modern focus on environmental, improvement. Far. From zero-sum, economic. And environmental. Benefits track, together I look forward to hearing from our state experts from across the country about. Their ideas on how to continue, the cycle based, on their experiences, engaging with the EPA I would. Now recognize the ranking member Whitehouse, for his opening statement. Thank. You very much senator Caputo, I welcome, the witnesses who are here today we're. Here to talk about cooperative. Federalism. Two. Words which have become something of a mantra for EPA. Administrator, Scott Pruett there. Among his most trusted, talking, points right up there with another. Favorite. Catchphrase back. To basics, so. What does cooperative, federalism. Really. Mean and particularly what does it mean to. Administrator, Pruitt. Cooperative. Federalism should mean that EPA in the state's work together, to reduce pollution. Reducing. Pollution involves, doing, scientific, analysis. Gathering. Data writing. Rules. Setting. Targets and. Enforcing. The rules and targets, this. Work can and should. Be done together by EPA in the States, it. Used to be, but. That's not what, Scott Pruett means by cooperative. Federalism. To. Pruit cooperative, federalism means having EPA do less to reduce pollution and, handover, more of the work to the states, all. While proposing fewer, financial resources, to the states to do this work and, if. Some states are less interested, in reducing pollution, or don't have the resources, to develop and enforce rules limiting pollution then, so. Much the better, because. You, see that is Pruitt's goal here, cooperative, federalism is code for. EPA and, some, states walking. Away from their core mission of protecting human, health and, the environment. The. Proof is that any time a state takes strong action, to reduce pollution, Pruitt's. EPA either opposes, the initiative, or slow-walk. Set Pruitt's. Version of cooperative, federalism is a, one-way, street. Towards. More pollution. States. Are encouraged to take the lead in. Reducing, pollution so. Long as they don't actually try, to reduce, pollution. Prudes. Recent decision to water down corporate, average fuel economy standards. The cafe standards is an, example of how cooperative federalism, under, Pruitt really, works. These. Cafe standards, were negotiated, in 2012. By EPA California. And the auto industry all parties. Agreed, to, these standards which are estimated to save consumers. 1.7. Trillion dollars, at the pump that's. An average of eight thousand, dollars over the life of a car purchased. In 2025. And, of, course to reduce carbon emissions by, six billion metric, tons. So. Why did, Pruitt decide to roll back those agreed to cafe, standards, not.
Because California, asked him to but. Because industry did is. It cooperative, federalism to ignore the states and do industries bidding. When. You get beyond the rhetoric Pruitt isn't really interested in cooperating with States his. Real interest is in cooperating, with, corporations. Which. Have bankrolled, his entire political career, you. Might actually call, it cooperative. Corporatism, and, now. That California, and Rhode Island and Delaware and many of the other ten states and the District of Columbia yes. Initial. Standards have, objected, to his decision to water down the cafe standards Pruitt has suggested, that he may revoke the waiver granted. To California, under the Clean Air Act that allows that makes a diminishing standards, how's. That for cooperation. Desire, decentralized decision making in his own hands isn't just limited to clean, he. Recently announced, that all decisions, relating, to determining, with our project, has a significant, environmental impact. On waterways. Will. Be made by him, so. Much for local control and, cooperative. Federalism. My. Home state of Rhode Island has a long coastline that is particularly vulnerable to, sea level rise the. Cafe standards represent, an important part of our efforts to combat, climate change which, is responsible for sea, level rise the. Clean power plan is also critical, to reducing the carbon emissions, driving. Climate change the. Prude is trying to repeal that - do. You think he consulted, with Rhode Island officials or, the officials in any coastal, states on, repealing. The clean power plan. If. You need any further proof that Scott foods cooperative, federalism is a one way street sham, just. Look at his proposed budget for FY 19, he. Proposes, cutting grants to the states for clean air programs by over one hundred and sixty million dollars, some. Programs he eliminates entirely, Rhode. Island's Department of iron metal management receives about ten million dollars a year in grants from EPA about. 2.4. Million of this goes to clean air programs. How. Does Pruett expect States to step up and lead on protecting clean air when. He tries to cut the money they receive to do this work the. Answer is he doesn't scott. Pruett mission, at EPA is. Cooperative. Corporatism, to. Serve the interests, of the industry, that has always backed him you. See this in decision, after decision where. State input is ignored, and you, see this in industry, cronies, installed, at EPA. Scott. Pruett has sullied the doctrine, of cooperative, federalism just. As his disregard for EPA's mission has, sullied the agency, and, his, actions, stand to sully our environment. I, salute. States like Rhode Island California and Delaware that are working so hard to protect our environment. We do it better with an, effective partner, in EPA, it. Is time for EPA, to get serious, about, protecting the environment and public. Health that. After. All is its true mission, thank. You madam, chair. Thank. You senator, to begin our introductions, chairman. Brasso is here and, I'd like to ask if you would like to introduce our witness from way thank you very much madam chairman I would and I'm so pleased to introduce Nancy. Vere who serves as the air quality, administrator, for the Wyoming Department of air quality. Administrator. Veer has led Wyoming's, efforts to improve air quality and, implement the Clean Air Act since 2015. Before. Serving as air quality administrator. She, worked at the Wyoming Attorney General's Office and in that office, she served as the assistant attorney general and represented, the state's division of air quality, administrator. Vera has also, had broad experience, in the private sector where she handled. A wide variety of civil and environmental matters. Her. Wealth of experience, with the Clean Air Act and her deep familiarity, of Wyoming. Has served the state very, well for which we're very grateful, due. To our unique location, geography, and natural resources Wyoming.
Needs Flexibility. To implement the Clean Air Act so I look forward to hearing your testimony, today. And listen. As you explain the challenges, faced by the state of Wyoming, in implementing, the Clean Air Act and how the EPA can, better partner, with States and specifically, the state of Wyoming to solve these challenges so welcome. Thank you for being here thank you for your willingness to testify thank you madam chairman, thank. You now I'd like to recognize our ranking member senator, Carper if he would like to make an introduction I would thank you madam chair I we're, gathered, welcoming, back, he's like Welcome Back Kotter this has welcome back Sean - to the environment. Public Works Committee and. We're, happy happy. You could join us we shot, Sean and I spent some time trying to get here this morning on a train, that just was not good we're really cooperative but thank you for about sticking with it and and for, making it down here. Sean. Did you ever work for Joe Biden, how. Long how long, two. Years would. You say that happiest two years of your. Life. You. Mean the mother of your son the mother of your son but it was Dylan right they, see in high school boys in college okay. All right go in college soon. Okay. So. You you, work for Joe, Biden kept, him out of trouble for. At least ten years and, ended. Up for. Your your, efforts. EPA, region, administrator Region three for. What eight years was eight years eight. Years and and. After that you ended up as a secretary of the department natural resources environmental control, is. Anybody, in this room who also. Held that position previously. What. Would that be, Christophe, Tulu he was the secretary for eight mighty was governor so we've known John, for a long time admire, feel. Great affection for his family and happy, that you would be with us today thank you for your continued service not just the people of Delaware but the people of our country give you your family our best thank you for joining us. Thank. You senator, Carper and I will introduce the rest of the witness panel and then we'll begin, in, addition, to ms ver and mr. Garvin we have mr., Shawn al Terry who serves as the director of the division for air quality in, the Kentucky, energy and. Environmental, cabinets, Department, of Environmental Protection that's, a long title, mr.. Al terry has previously served as the president, of the association, of air pollution control agencies, and continues. To play a leadership role in that organization. Welcome. We have mr. Toby, Baker who is a commissioner of the Texas Commission of, on. Environmental. Quality first. Nominated, by then Governor Rick Perry in, 2012. Welcome we, also have mr. Matthew, Rodriguez, who, serves at California's, California's, secretary, for environmental, protection want, to thank all of the witnesses for, being here and I will now, recognize our, witnesses for their opening statements, as a reminder your full written testimony. Has, been submitted for the hearing record so, ms ver would to recognize, you for five minutes, madam chair could ask yes miss consent today the statement of mine being sort of. Replacing. That in a urine thank, you so much thank, you mister. I checked. Make, sure you were Mike son no. Thank, you as much butter you don't want to miss a word okay. Good. Morning chairman. Capital ranking member White House and members of the subcommittee, I have. The honor and pleasure of serving the great state of Wyoming, as the administrator, for the, air quality division our. Department, is an active member on the, environmental, Council of states eCos with several of the other presenters also, serving on that, our. Division is a member of the Association, of air pollution control agencies. Where I serve as vice president and the western states air resource Council, Westar where I also serve as vice, president while. My testimony, may reference those organizations. I am NOT here to testify, on their behalf in order, to put my remarks in context, I'd like to share a few facts about Wyoming, to help you get, to know who we are Wyoming. Has been blessed with amazing. And abundant, natural resources. We, are home to Yellowstone, and Grand Teton.
National Parks. And other, special, and scenic places that some of you may have visited our abundant, mineral resources. Provide, the nation our state and our citizens with revenue, and jobs our leading, industries, are energy tourism and agriculture. We. Are the ninth largest state roughly. Ninety three times the size of Rhode Island our largest county is roughly, four times as large as Delaware about. Half the land in Wyoming, is owned and managed by the federal government, we, are also the least populous, state not, quite six hundred thousand of us in small rural communities, or in the large expanses, in between only, nine communities in, Wyoming, have more than 10,000, people each, Wyoming. Wants and is working towards improved relationships. And interactions with EPA it is, Wyoming's, experience, that EPA shares this desire and is doing the same why. Our improvements, to cooperative, federalism so important, because, we want better outcomes, and air quality improvements, my. Testimony, highlights, some of the progress that has been made in the recalibration. Of state and federal rules with. Which. Leads to more effective, air quality environmental management, at lower cost, my. Written testimony. Highlights. Some of these examples my. Mark's today touch on one regional. Haze, with. Respect to cooperative, federalism, EPA. Sets the deadlines and standards, States, develop. Plans with implementation, strategies. To meet those deadlines, and standards, when. That process works the, result is improved air quality at. Lower cost. Wyoming. Treasures her magnificent. Resources, and vistas in the. 1977. Clean Air Act Amendments Congress, established, a goal to, restore visibility. In national, parks and wilderness areas, to natural conditions, some. 20 years later EPA, adopted, the regional haze rule the, rule mandates, that state submit, plans to reduce regional, haze emissions, however. Right. In the midst of the regional haze, plans the middle and Approval time frames the, cooperative, federalism, process. Failed, instead. Of approving, innovative, state plans to improve air quality EPA. Oftentimes failed to act or imposed, a one-size-fits-all. Federal. Plan on a state, Wyoming. Is one of those states in which EPA, imposed. A regional, haze federal. Plan that. Came with a much higher price tag and no, added visibility benefit. As compared, to the state's plan the. Work involved, to develop, and submit a state plan is time-consuming and, costly, for. Regional, haze the, process, in this first round took, more than a decade, and cost, the state hundreds, of thousands. Of dollars on the, technical, work alone. Wyoming's. Plan achieved, significant. Emission, reductions, including almost.
Ten Thousand, tons of nitrogen oxides, by, installing, 100, million dollars worth of pollution, controls. Wyoming's. Plan demonstrated. That Wyoming, would be on track to meet its visibility, improvement. Progress, goals, instead. Of improving. Wyoming's, plan EPA. Imposed, its own federal, plan EPA's. Plan had, a price tag of six hundred million dollars but, did not meaningfully. Improve, visibility. These. Issues are now tied up in litigation. The. Channel is that the second round of regional haze plans are due in a few years, federal. And state collaboration. Is underway, in that process. Wyoming. Remains hopeful, that those collaborative. Efforts, will continue and be fully implemented. If so, the, result will be continued, improvement, and progress towards, meeting the Clean Air Act visibility. Goals at a cost, and resource savings, to Wyoming citizens, thank. You to the committee for inviting Wyoming, and listening. To the department's, perspective on cooperative. Federalism, under, the Clean Air Act thank you thank. You mister, Altieri. Good. Morning sure Capitol ranking, member White House and members of the subcommittee, my name is Shawna Lettieri and I currently serve as the director of the Kentucky division for air quality I'm. Honored to testify today and I thank you for this opportunity to share a state's perspective related to cooperative, federalism under the Clean Air Act in addition. To my work with the Kentucky division for air quality I also serve as the past president, of the association, of air pollution control agencies, our. Association. Is a national, nonpartisan, consensus. Driven organization, focused, on improving air quality the. Association. Represents, more than 45 state and local air agencies, as. Senator, Inhofe remarked, during a 2016. Hearing cooperative. Federalism is a core principle of environmental, statutes, including, the Clean Air Act where, EPA and States work together to meet environmental goals obviously. Mutual. Respect is essential, and necessary to forge a strong, working relationship, between EPA, and state regulators, working. Together cooperatively, will. Allow all of us to achieve our environmental, goals and objectives. Specific. To the Clean Air Act cooperative, federalism is more than just a catchphrase. Once, EPA establishes. A standard or an applicable requirement, under title 1 of the Act the. States are primarily responsible for, implementation, and enforcement of, those standards, and requirements these. Standards, include the national air quality standards, the standards of performance the, national emission standards for hazardous air pollutants, and waste, incineration, rules. To. Ensure that states are provided, with the ability to carry out its obligations. Under the Clean Air Act and a effectively administer its, delegated, authorities, EPA. Must establish nationally. Uniform emission, standards based on sound science, additionally. EPA, must promulgate, reasonable, regulations, and fully consider implementation. Requirements, of state tribal, and local air. Pollution control agencies. Importantly. EPA. Must allocate stable. And adequate resources and funds to state tribal and local air, pollution control, agencies, also. EPA. Must provide timely implementation, guidance and technical support and, finally, EPA. Must meet all of its non-discretionary, statutory. Duties. As by, the prescribed, deadlines. EPA. Strategic, plan for fiscal year 18 through, 2022, underscores. Each of these necessities, in a, strategic, plan EPA, establishes. A goal of cooperative, federalism and sets, forth its objectives, to enhance shared accountability, and to, increase transparency and, public, participation, EPA's. Goal and objectives, are consistent, with those of state tribal and local air pollution control agencies, in Kentucky.
We Take our responsibilities. Seriously and, work, diligently to fulfill our obligations, under the Act we. Are proud of the significant, improvement in air quality and we understand that there is more work to conduct, in the. Spirit of cooperative, federalism I'd like to provide a status report on air quality in Kentucky, and a detailed activities, conducted by our cabinet, to fulfill our obligations. Air. Quality in Kentucky is improving dramatically, in the, last 10 years emissions, of sulfur dioxides. From our electric. Generating units has decreased, by more than 83 percent and emissions. Of nitrogen oxides have decreased, by more than 70 percent our. Robust ambient air monitoring, network measures, these positive, results, currently. All of the monitors in the Commonwealth, except, for one ozone monitoring, Louisville, measure, compliance, with all of the national ambient air quality standards. Including, the 2015. Ozone standard. These. Reductions, in our success and air quality improvement. Are achieved through significant, investments, to install and upgrade air pollution controls in the. Last 10 years our utilities, invested, more than 8 billion with. ABI dollars. For air pollution controls, and these, expenditures are shared by all of the ratepayers in the Commonwealth. Despite. These efforts EPA, during the last administration disapproves. Several state implementation, plan revisions, and issued, federal implementation plans, as a result, EPA's. Negative, actions, to disapprove or issue a federal implementation, plan resulted. From su and settled decisions, in, closing. The Commonwealth, of Kentucky is, meeting its statutory obligations. Under the Clean Air Act and we are good neighbors by reducing our emissions and, providing, the rest of the country with, all the manufactured, goods and products. Necessary, to improve the quality of life for all. To. Accommodate, cooperative, federalism and strong, working relationships. We, request that EPA apply a state implementation. Approach. Rather than aggressive. Federal, overreach, again. Thank you for the opportunity, to testify today and I look forward to any questions or comments you may have regarding my testimony, thank you thank you Commissioner, Baker, Thank. You chairman capita, and ranking member Whitehouse the member does the Environment, and Public Works subcommittee, for, the record my name is Toby Baker I'm the Commissioner, of the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality otherwise, known as the TCEQ. The. TCC accused, the third largest environmental, regulatory, agency, in the United States behind the EPA in California, if you count their, air control district model as one, agency we. Have close to 3,000, employees across 16, regional offices, with our largest regional, office being located in Houston as you may have guessed. But. I thority delegated, to our agency, we regulate water quality, air quality and, waste in Texas I'd, like to highlight a few facts about Texans I believe were made possible through the tradition, of cooperative, federalism that as, you know was built into the federal Clean Air Act and a number of other federal regulatory, statutes. Starting. With the amendments to the Clean Air Act in the early 90s. Texas. The largest, one of the largest coastal States turned a corner and environmental, regulation, has become one of the leading States and environmental, success, relative. To our environmental, challenges, we. Currently produce one third of the nation's crude oil 30%. Of all refining, capacity is, located, within our borders and a, quarter of all US natural, gas production comes, from Texas, balancing.
This We also are the largest wind producing state in the US with over 20,000. Megawatts of capacity city solar. Energy production is ramping up and if you consider the projects, we have in queue we, should have close to thirty five hundred megawatts. Of utility, scale solar constructed. Or being built by 2019. To. Sum up we produce and consume more energy than any other state, in. Addition the population, of Texas is increasing. Rapidly, since. 2000, it is estimated that our population has grown by over 8 million it's, no secret that Texas, is hot and these eight million newcomers, to the state have no doubt discovered the benefits of air-conditioning which. Requires a significant, amount of power, it's. Also no secret that Texans like their cars in 8 million new Texans, moving primarily, to already heavy heavily, populated areas. Adds a number of new vehicles to our transportation system, one. Could assume an increase in population coupled, with our robust manufacturing, sector would lead to increased emissions but in reality the, opposite has occurred since. The late 90s we've seen a dramatic drop in both NOx emissions, and ozone emissions, well, we have occasional. Bouts with other criteria pollutants, ozone, is our most pressing since. 2000, we've been one the top states and reducing, ozone emissions, in fact, in the latest ranking, of the dirtiest cities by the American, Lung Association, Texas. Does not have a city in the top 10 while, having three of the top ten largest cities in the u.s. given. The fact that the Houston area is essentially the kitchen for a good portion of the US and that. It has prime ozone, making weather it's frankly astounding, our. Emissions, and our major metropolitan, areas are currently driven, more by mobile, sources than any point source, co2. Is worth mentioning here as well while. Texas produces, more co2 than any other state the per capita, production according to EIA puts, us at number fourteen when, ranking the state's if. We're objective about it I would argue that's a model for it for efficiency. So. What's led to the success, I'd say a tradition, of cooperative, federalism that's. Allowed Texas to tailor its own unique solutions, to our own unique problems, a market. That has led to maximizing, efficiency, in the refining sector and power sectors, three. Cleaner-burning. Vehicles, and finally, incentives. So. I'd like to address cooperative, federalism a little more specifically, first and foremost the benefits, of cooperative, federalism, correctly, we're on full display during our response to the worst natural disaster.
In Recent memory for the state of Texas hurricane. Harvey but. Before, and after Harvey made landfall both EPA headquarters and region six coordinated, closely with the TCEQ, and other state agencies to ensure all necessary. Fuel waiver requests. Were, processed, as expeditiously, as possible as. A result, of this cooperation, requests, were usually granted in a matter of hours can. Compare, that to previous hurricanes where such waivers would be processed, over several days because, EPA took more of a wait-and-see approach. Similarly. EPA, staff, processed. Ecq's, request for no action assurance, letters concerning vapor, controls, that gasoline terminals, tank, tightness of transport, trucks and landing of floating roofs on gasoline storage tanks, EPA's. Rapid response in close coordination with TCEQ, and approving the fuel waivers and naa. Letters, helped ensure the flow of gasoline, and diesel products, throughout Texas, and the United States, to. Be fair the previous administration, also worked well with TCEQ, and transitioning, all of the greenhouse gas permitting, under the tailoring rule from the EPA to Texas. Recognizing. The ability of a particular, state to handle the application load under certain rules yet another great example of how cooperative federalism, should work a national. Regulatory, scheme. And. Notice that I'm running out of time so I will skip. Forward briefly. Masane. Time that we have cooperative federalism where, it works it sometimes, doesn't work take for example the clean power plan which, would have imposed significant, economic and, Electric Reliability strains. On the state of Texas to, attain emission reduction, benchmarks, in a very short timeframe the, state has consistently maintained. Would be met anyway under. Existing market, conditions. Specifically. Texas, is currently on pace to nearly hit the initial emissions reduction, benchmark, of the clean power plan several. Years ahead of schedule, in all, without the rule being in place. Finally. I'm pleased to see that under this administration, a return to the historical, norm of a, sip oriented, approach to the Clean Air Act to Clean Air Act enforcement and, implementation. By, diverting from a fit first approach, the EPA has enabled individual. States to implement in, and enforce, federal standards, in a manner allowing for greater flexibility, and efficiency. This. In turn leads to both a greater diversity and problem-solving, methods that are tailored to each state's natural environment, as well. As more predictability, and consistency and. Enforcement, I have. Examples of that but I will I'll, leave those for later that concludes my testimony thank, you for having me here today Thank You mr.. Rodriguez. Well. Thank you chair, Caputo, ranking. Member Whitehouse and other, subcommittee, members for inviting me to, testify. I'm Matt Rodriguez, secretary. Of, the California, Environmental, Protection Agency and, I will describe how the federal state partnership created, by the Clean Air Act has provided an extraordinarily successful, example. Of cooperative, federalism, since. The Clean Air Act was comprehensively. Amended, in 1970. Emissions. Of the nation's most common air pollutants have fallen by an average of, 70% even. As our economy grew by two hundred and forty six percent by. 2020, the acts economic, benefits, will total, two trillion dollars the. Act has spurred the use of clean technologies, a dry business, opportunity, new, refinery equipment, reduces waste and improves worker safety and, also. Improves, the health of people nearby neighborhoods. I will, reduction, in electric vehicle technologies, for cars trucks and school buses have cut fuel costs, engine wear and greenhouse, gas and smog emissions. Cooperative. Federal and state efforts have built this record of achievement, the federal government provides minimum standards, and resources, to States and states, tailor solutions for their individual, communities. Unfortunately. Today. This relationship has been put in jeopardy US. EPA through a series of recent, hasty, and ill-conceived, actions, as attempting, to weaken wyan mark safeguards, what, the result that states have been forced to spend resources to, fill the gap I'll. Provide several examples, and I've provided some more in my written, remarks. In. Adopting the Clean Air Act Congress gave California. The option to develop its own emission standards, and have. Other states adopt them as well because California, has technical, expertise, and experience, it could drive, innovation. Using. This framework thirteen, states including, California, automakers. And the federal government had operated, a coordinated, national program. To set rigorous and fair standards, for greenhouse gases and fuel economy for cars and trucks u.s.. EPA's findings. Last. Year show this collaboration, has been very successful, it.
Is Estimated that will save roughly 1.2, billion barrels of oil cut greenhouse gas emissions, by over half a billion metric tons and save, the average consumer, thousands, of dollars over the vehicles life, moreover. These standards who helped us automakers, stay competitive in the global market. So, it's deeply disappointing, that the administration. Recently announced its intention, without really, meaningfully. Consulting, with its partner states to weaken and potentially, dismantle, this program the, result is huge uncertainty, for industry, and huge risks to the public, we're. Prepared to take action, as necessary including, legal action, to, protect this program and to report and restore the balance to this cooperative relationship. Similarly. The Clean Air Act gives us EPA, the authority indeed. The responsibility. To fight global warming and control greenhouse gases, using. This Authority the agency developed a clean power plan through a transparent process, to set attainable, greenhouse gas reduction, targets by 2030, the. Plan offers an array of state planning options to meet these targets and with, the plan in place states will working collectively on implementation strategies. The. Trump administration's, proposal, to repeal the clean power plan threatens. To curtail this progress insurance its responsibility under the Act many. States including California. Are stepping in with their own programs, to reduce greenhouse gas emissions without. Federal, leadership we lack a national, vision to modernize our power sector and respond, to climate change. Federal-state. Cooperation, is also at the core of our national program to make sure our air meets basic, standards to protect public health, ordinarily. US, EPA sets science-based maximum. Levels for air pollution the, states then develop plans to meet maintain, these thresholds, these. Standards, are critical because small can trigger asthma attacks, worsen, heart conditions, and damage agricultural, production, the. Current EPA, administration. However has refused to designate, areas and compliance, or not in attainment with federal standards instead. Announcing, an extended, delay before even starting this process, when.
15 States in the district of Colombia filed suit over this illegal, step US EPA withdrew, this formal delay but, still did not do anything we, had to go to court again to require, US EPA to do its job. States. Rely on our federal partners to ensure the factories, and power plants have strong pollution, controls however, just a few months ago US. EPA revoked, the once in all ways in policy, that, ensures that major sources of toxic air pollution are all subject, to strict controls these. Toxic air pollutants include, lead mercury and arsenic which can cause cancer, and damage the nervous system under. The new policy these, pollution sources can drop out of the program and increase their emissions again the, states again will have to do their best to develop, programs. To clean the air and protect it but, it means diverting, resources that. Could address public, other public, health threats. Achieving. The goal of clean air is about protecting, our communities, we, achieve this goal most effectively, in partnerships, with the public with industry, and with the federal administration a key. To. Success as a strong and vigorous US, EPA and, this is why we appreciate Congress's, resistance, to proposed, budget cuts to the agency, and its core programs, including. Its grant programs, it's, why we also appreciate the federal workers who have stayed with the program through this period of uncertainty but, this, will not be enough if US EPA continues to walk away from his responsibilities. If they, do to the states will do what they must to protect the health of our people our economies, and our environments, we, will use all our available tools to ensure that US EPA is again there to work with us and not against us thank, you very much. Thank. You mr. Rodriguez, mr., Garvin. Chairwoman. Capitao ranking. Member Whitehouse senator. Carper, members, of the subcommittee, my, name is Shawn Garvin and I serve as Delaware's, Secretary, of the Department of Natural Resources and. Environmental. Control I would. Like to thank you for the opportunity, to testify on cooperative, federalism, under the Clean Air Act state, perspectives. In. May of. 2017. I had the opportunity to testify in, front of this Subcommittee on the importance and effectiveness of, the Clean Air Act in protecting, public health and welfare preventing. Premature deaths, and protecting. The environment I'm. Pleased to be here today to, once again address, you on my state's perspect, of the Clean Air Act and some, of the serious challenges downwind. States face and meeting, attainment, standards for air quality. Ozone. Forming, pollutants, are well controlled in Delaware due to the state's proactively. Requiring, cost-effective. Controls, on a wide range of sources including power plants, refinery. Manufacturing. Plants, on-road. Vehicles consumer. Products, paints, and coatings gas, stations, and opening, burning activities, to name a few, despite. These efforts Delaware. Continues, to be challenged, in ensuring, health healthy, air to our citizens, because, we are a downwind, state and subject. To air pollution transport. From facilities. In other, parts of the country in, fact, over, 90% of, the pollution that contributes to ozone in Delaware, is transported. From out-of-state sources. The. Answer to solving our ozone problems, lies outside our borders and we need the federal government to recognize the. Inequity, that exists, between upwind, and downwind, states EPA's. Maintain that cooperative federalism, is key, to maintaining clear, clean, air I would. Agree that cooperative, federalism, is invaluable when. It works well by, empowering States to act under federal law and allowing communities to enjoy the, benefits of state innovation.
Positive. Outcomes, can occur when the federal government works alongside states, to determine best, methods, to continue. Progress. Towards, clean air provides. The resources that states need to enforce the regulation and steps, in when a state, fails to meet its obligation. Progress. In downwind states such as Delaware require. That the federal government continued, to provide the states with the tools and resources needed, to enforce the Clean Air Act yet. There have been proposed massive, cuts in the past to EPA budgets. Progress. Also requires that EPA maintain, oversight, and step, in to ensure that upwind, states continue, to comply with, the good neighbor provision, however. The EPA seems, to be pulling back and turning, decisions, over to the States we're. Also seeing the attempt to reduce regulations. At the federal level such, as repeal, and replace of the clean power plan weakening. Of the fuel efficiency standards revocation. Of the California, waiver and the, rollback of the glider truck rule in, addition, EPA, has also failed to act on section, 126, petitions, which, is one of the ways a state, can address problems, that lie outside its, borders and seek, reductions, and missions contributing, to its non-attainment, all. Of these actions or nine actions, will have serious consequences for, downwind, states such as Delaware the. Inequity, Delaware, faces is compounded, by the fact that we are both a downwind, and the, lowest lying coastal state and in fact the lowest lying state we. Are disproportionately. Economically. Affected, by both the health care costs borne by the state through the health effects of poor air quality and, by industry locating, elsewhere due to lack of controls, and regulations. And upwind locations, as, the lowest lying state will be further impacted, by pollution of inland states that are contributing, to sea level rise and the increased, frequency, of storms. And coastal erosion my. Concern with the way EPA, is approaching, cooperative, federalism, under, the Clean Air Act as they only focus on providing flexibility, the decisions, we make inside our states the. Problem is is that air pollution knows, no boundaries and I have no authority to ensure other states are addressing pollution. That impacts my citizens, I count, on the EPA to use their authority to, hold all of us accountable to, the law regulations. And science, to ensure we all are being good neighbors thank. You for the opportunity, to testify I'm happy to answer any questions thank. You thank you all and I will begin with, my five minutes of questions. Mr.. Altieri you recently served as the president, of the association, of air pollution control agencies, representing. State clean air regulators, from around the country in fact, in that capacity you, sent a letter to me and two ranking member White House last year outlining, the aapc, A's priorities. For improving the Clean Air Act to improve, coordination between, the EPA, and state regulators, so, thank you for the letter and I would like to seek unanimous consent, to submit that letter for the record so. Without objection we will do that a bit, over a year into the administration, what do you perceive has changed, with regards, to the EPA's coordination, with the state States, and has it been more collaborative.
In Your opinion. Thank. You sure we've. Always had a strong working relationship, with EPA. But it, this, this administration. Has been, coming. To states for that technical, information, as opposed to just imposing. Its. Will through federal, implementation, plans so we have seen more. Technical, thorough, discussion. Directly, with our state. Miss. Fair have do, you have a comment on that have you seen a difference in the last year with working, with a different, administration. On the EPA's coordination, between the federal and the state. Yes. We have, the. Again. Echoing, mr. Altieri we had a working. Relationship, with the EPA prior but, since the under, this new administration, we, found that that working, relationship has. Improved, EPA. Is listening, to, the state's concerned and is, interested, in developing, flexible, solutions, that, fit you Wyoming's, unique characteristics. Well, I would just like to say anecdotally in my state over the last in. The previous administration for, eight years we. Really asked the EPA, to come to our state to have a listening session which we were never able to get but, the EPA did come in several. Months ago had. A very vigorous listening. Session in Charleston, West Virginia mostly, around obviously coal, and, we. Had all sides of the argument. Heard, in public sector very, it. Was, very, much, welcomed so I think part. Of what I see cooperative, federalism. Is is the ability to listen and that's what you've said is well Commissioner Baker you're from an energy state you've, mentioned that the, clean power. Well, the Clean Air Act. Obviously. You. Mentioned the clean power plan that was mentioned in some of the other testimonies. That without. The clean power pan we're not going to move forward with. The. Desired. Capturing. Of carbon and cleaning cleaning, the environment, could, you comment on that again, what Texas is doing is obviously one of the biggest well, you said the biggest producer, of carbon and sure, we so. If you look at the inside, the clean power plan there were glide paths laid out that states had to meet to to. Comply with the plan itself I believe, our first year was early. Early in the 2020s. Sometime. We will, be within 5% of that number by 2019, and that's, without any plan currently, in place, what. Do you attribute that to. Honestly. Chairman. A number. Of things I think. Efficiency. With our industrial. With. Our industrial sector, but, I also would say you know honestly cheap natural gas has. Had a direct impact we've, had 12. Coal, Fired eg use that, are going to be retiring have retired or are retiring soon, so. There is so. The market itself I think, is driving us to. Do what the clean power plan set. Out to do through. And, the new way are on top of that. Massive. Wind saturation. Into, our powers into our power supply. I'd. Like to ask just a very simple question of everybody.
Actually. Senator, Whitehouse got, me thinking about this in his opening statement he. Mentioned, that states, would want to walk away from the core mission of less pollution so. Is that the desire miss ver to walk, away from the core mission of the Clean Air Act to. Mission. Of less pollution just yes or no absolutely. Not mr. L Terry no mr.. Baker no, mr., Rodriguez. No. Mr.. Garvin being downwind I hope not. Well. I wondered if somebody was going to take more than just yes, or no so Thank You mr. Garvin for having faith and and adding, a few extra words there, on. The Sioux and settle issue you mentioned that I think who. Mentioned that mr. Altieri mentioned, that could, you explain to me how that works. In terms of the. The. Ozone the ground-level. Ozone, provisions. Right, I think, they have outcomes. That are not consistent, with the Clean Air Act currently, we are argue. Atilla T's and are being forced to add additional controls. And an extreme cost whereas. Those areas, that that. Maintain, the standard on the East Coast they don't have to provide. Any additional controls. So I think it's a negative outcome for ours and. Really unnecessary. Anybody. Else have a comment on the on the sueance Odle. I'd. Like to make one comment one of the more, egregious. Soon. Settled complaints. That i think we would have goes, back to. 2011. 2010, 2011, came, out of a case. Over. Timing. Timing reviews, for NSPS and. Through. That consent, decree and that decision, EPA decided, that new, source performance standards. Were now going to be applicable to all, the oil and gas wells whereas. We, had years and years and years of legal interpretation. That said the NSPS, did not apply so, with. That one decision essentially. Overnight, we. Went from we. Had. To regulate. Essentially, you know hundreds. Of thousands of new of. New, sources, and the. Problem with that is obviously, the cost to, do that since we're delegated, state falls onto my agency, and, trying to figure out how to go, and do that through just a simple. Reinterpretation. Of the way the Clean Air Act had been interpreted, since, the amendments, of the early 90s thank, you mister what no sooner White House thank. You madam chair and thank you again all the witnesses for being here I'd like to open my, question. Reading, a, quotation. From Freddie Mac the, u.s.. Mortgage. Backer. And. I. Quote them here the ich this is relating, to harm, to coastal. Housing. And property, markets, quote. The, economic, losses and. Social. Disruption. May. Happen, gradually. But. They are likely to be greater in. Total, than. Those experienced. In the housing crisis, and Great. Recession. Now. Those. Of us who are from coastal, states take, warnings, like that from our. Federal. Mortgage providers, pretty. Damn seriously, as I think you would expect that we, should could. You tell, me miss Vera what is the relationship, between. In dioxide.
Emissions, And sea-level rise. In. In. Terms of. Cause. And effect cause, and effect I. Know that, there, are changes. That are occurring in our environment, currently, that. People. Are studying and I'm. Not an expert in that area so I would have to defer to the. Studies. That. Others are doing in that area, mr.. Altieri can you do any better than that no. I'm not certain that the direct relationship, between, the co2 emissions, and sea, level rise alrighty. Well you got a Coast Commissioner, Baker maybe you can do better what do you know about this in. Certain areas I think it there is a direct correlation I. Would say in Texas are what. Do you mean in certain areas, so. For example in Texas the, relative, sea level rise that we're experiencing. Who, comes from really, manmade things like subsidence. Man-made. Structures, that extend. Into the Gulf of Mexico. My question is what is the role of carbon. Dioxide emissions in contributing. To that sea level rise of. Any what is your understanding of that in, Texas, I don't. Know what the I don't know what the science, says specifically. About that in regarding. Our coast how about generally, if not specifically. What. Have signs generally, on the correlation between carbon, dioxide emissions and sea. Level rise I think. I answered that it's correlated, okay there we go to start mr., Rodriguez. California's. Coastal. I'll. Just say I work with scientists, all the time and, it's, sometimes, hard to get them to agree uncertainty. On. Anything but in, this particular, area of, the overwhelming. Consensus. And I have no doubt that there's a direct correlation between co2. Emissions, and, changes, in the weather and including, sea level rise and you have coastal communities that are actually having to plan for. That absolutely, just agreed to a new set of guidelines, for, a development, along our coast just recently, at our ocean protection Council we're. Preparing for sea level rise we're already seen along our coasts. Mr. Garvin you're like you're. Like me your coastal. And, you, are downwind, your, friend mr., Rodriguez. Is downwind, of China we're. Downwind, of the coal plants, in West. Virginia Ohio Pennsylvania, Kentucky. And. So forth and for a long time we have been on the receiving end of their pollution. And don't, much appreciate the high smokestacks, that have been built to make. Sure that that pollution goes out of their states and lands on ours so. Take, take. A stab at what sea-level. Rise means for, Delaware. And whether it connects, to the carbon emissions from these. Plants so I want, to touch on two things and, I completely. Agree with my colleague from from California. But, when, we look at this issue in Delaware our two largest.
Economic. Generators. Are tourism. And agriculture, when. You talk about climate, change it. Part, of its sea level rise issues, part of it is is, creating. More, frequency, of storms and more severe storms and, higher. Droughts and, more. Flooding. Across, the board and I have direct. Impacts on our two largest. Economic engines, in the state of Delaware and we're seeing those impacts, particularly along our coastline but, now it happens, in Delaware I have to start doing now given. The sea. Level rise that is anticipated. As a result of climate. Change and carbon emissions so, there's three things going on right now one is we continue, to. Work on, renourishment. Of our coastline to. Try to protect our clothesline as much as possible our local communities, are looking at land. Use decisions, and existing, structures, on how they. Need to raise and. Address. Any, new construction and currently, as reitman plants, ports, harbors all those to be reconsidered. Our. Wastewater, treatment plants, are power, plants in addition as we speak, our Department, of Transportation is raising, route 1 which, connects, our coastline, along, the Atlantic, coast by. Several inches to, try. To not not, to address the big storms, just to address the. The, regular storms and the impacts that we're having on transportation. Which also, becomes a public safety issue for our. Communities. Along the coast, Thank. You Sherman when time is expired I appreciate, that. Her. Markey great. Thank you very much. Mr.. Rodriguez welcome. Scott. Pruett is, now attacking, the fuel economy, standards. Which. Were, reached as in, agreement with California. And all the waiver states. Along. With the. EPA and nitsa in. 2010-2011. That. Would. Reduce. Our imports, of oil by 3.5. Million. Barrels. Of oil a day which. Is roughly equivalent right, now to what we import from OPEC on a, daily, basis, seems like a pretty important, thing to. Do to keep on the, books, and. It. Also is. Still, the, largest, single. Reduction, that any law any country has ever put on the books to reduce greenhouse gases that, one decision so, it is huge and I take a great deal of pride in it because I was the house author. Of that, legislation, in the same way senator, Feinstein, senator, Stevens, were the Senate authors of that bill that's. A 2007. Bill that was relied upon by do T so. What. What. Do you think about. Scott. Pruitt's statement, that the standards are too hard, to meet that. It's, just an unfair, imposition, on the auto industry, do you agree with that, no. We. Did a very. Very thorough. Technical. Assessments. Of the. Standards, and the progress, that the auto industry, has made in. Complying. With those standards, back. In 2016. In 2017. Our. Air Resources, Board found that there was no reason to deviate. From those standards, progress. Was being made. And, in fact our experience, has been if, you set the right target. Industry. Will find a way to get there and that seems to be the case here so we. See no reason to deviate from those standards that were agreed to previously, with. The federal administration yes. So what do you think about General. Motors and, Toyota and.
The Other companies, that are now saying they cannot meet the standards what would your message to them be well. Well continue to work with them and and talk to them about how do we meet these standards. We're, always interested in, hearing from industry. Frankly. They're, not quite as. All. Right everybody welcome to the Fox 10 News now stream we're just about four minutes, to go till, Fox 10 extra and then about an hour from. Our coverage with, Facebook. CEO Mark Zuckerberg testifying. In there in front of Congress so will happen for you all in. Its entirety right, here for UI news now today. You. Then welcome, everyone. Here to news and now is we're taking just another beautiful look as our great great state of Arizona. Welcome. To news and now as we get you caught up on all the top headlines and stories. Of the, day right here on news now in it's going to be a busy. One, Ron hoon is with me as always hi, everybody, and how you doing Ron just doing great like great doing. Great he's a big day, when we're talking about, what. Is going to be happening on Capitol Hill today with Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg. Testifying. Yeah we. Got that we've got. And. We're you know a lot of speculation, as to how he'll do he, did pay the courtesy, calls to a number of senators yes maybe, to try to soften the blows yeah. You know just a little bit yes. But. You. Know I mean he's. He's. He's, in for a grilling, as we it's a little bit of a cliche before he definitely, is it'll just be interesting to see what he says. They. Will, do going, forward, that's, that's, half of it and frankly the other half is just how does it look like he's handling it if he stumbles, and bumbles his way through that's not gonna be good no if he you, know steps right up to the plate and says. This. Is a, real. Moment of truth for us and we, and those of us in the industry you, know blah blah blah our have to prove our mettle in terms, of protecting people's data isn't it interesting now when you go on to what was it the other day I went in to. Apple. For, some reason. And right, upfront they said here's how we share your data here's, how we protect your privacy you, know I think, basically. Every company, coming. Out of Silicon, Valley is. You know is is try to figure out okay well where do we where, do we exactly go from here and will, we see some laws come out of it I mean there's a lot of unanswered questions, that we actually will maybe start, to see some answers. Within. About 48, hours from right now right and a lot of technology. Companies will be also watching, this as well because they want to see if there is going to be regulation, down the road right for a lot of these companies, here, and I think this, story really hit a lot of people just because so many people use Facebook yeah, and when, you're looking at really the depth and the reach that this data goes yeah it's, just really mind-boggling, and then but you gotta you gotta wonder though it is a free service I mean what yeah. You're the product really you want the product. Do you really that's exactly, right yeah. Market. Something yes exactly so, we. Got that going on we, have the president, cancelling, his, trip to South America, cuz, it and even said it's, because I, want to be here to monitor what's about to happen in Syria mhm, so if anybody had any doubts that there's going to be some sort of response pretty. Soon, regarding. This chemical attack in Syria. You. Can put those doubts to rest it looks like and you know particularly when you consider the president was so critical, of Barack. Obama's, presidency, for, creating, a quote red line and then doing nothing about it and punting, it to Congress. The. President. Trump can't afford to appear, to be weak I don't think I don't think, we're, talking about like a full-on ground, war or anything like that but, I mean we got those fighter planes stationed, right off the coast in the Mediterranean. It is dicey, because, Russia, is so heavily involved there and you got the Iranians, I mean so it's a there's, a lot to consider there but by, the end of the day we may be. Sitting on a real big story when it comes to them yeah, it. Was interesting to see what Senator, John McCain said the other day too about, President, Trump's comments, on withdrawing. From Syria last week now he, says that might have really egged. This whole thing on yeah that it sort of gave carte blanche to, to. Bashar Assad. Once he if, if, we sent the message that hey we're getting out of the region. And, so. Yeah. I mean that's um that is that's, a pretty harsh criticism, right there to say basically that some, of things the president said may have actually played a role in what happened next, it's, interesting because I saw a commentator, say the other day that he really, I'm terrific who it was does, not think, that the United, States endgame, is the.
Removal. Of Bashir. Assad from, power in, Syria, because, when you we've already seen what happens when you create a power vacuum in that part of the world Isis. Tries to get in there and tries to take over. You know and so nobody wants that kind of a situation so who knows I mean it's just so complex. And. There's so many there's so much of a potential, for missteps, we shall see in the meantime then, you get this huge headline, yesterday, that the FBI raided, the offices, it's, still a huge story today of Michael. Cohen, as. One of the comments I saw online today said well this proves that it doesn't, because. For the most part the, White House has continually. Said and. A number of lawyers working for the president we're cooperating. We are cooperating. And. So, if, this is then the end result. It's. Going to put a chill on the whole level of future. Cooperation between. The White House and the Moller team. Judge. Andrew Napolitano was, on Fox News Channel this morning saying he thinks it's quite possible, it's what's really, going on here is he. Is trying to put the squeeze, on. Cohen. To, try to get information that. The real goal is, to try to get information on, the. President. And you. Know for his part presidents, out there saying I've told you from day one there's no Russia collusion, and, so people look at it now and they see well, so they're starting to go down the stormy, Daniels Road, oh yeah, yeah when, the whole launching. Launch of the investigation. Was to, a see if. There was and, how deep did it go any collusion with the, Russians in the election, and what do we have to do to protect our. Election. System going, forward from those. Kind of future. Attacks. Right so and, then in the end it, turns out that they're gonna go after the stormy Daniels part, of the story just it. Seems it feels like apples and oranges so. It'll. Be fascinating to, see how this all plays out do you think Ron that we're getting closer, to a possible Muller, firing, I think. So yes it just seems like because of the rant yesterday. They had the president, Trump had at the White House yeah, they. Had about six minutes of it that they gave it to us boy, was he he. Was lit up yes he was lit up and it's, also interesting that a. Commentator. That you occasionally, you. Know who's socially, very liberal commentator. On Fox News Channel named Alan, Dershowitz. Famous. East. Coast attorney, has. Probably, been on television more prominently, than just about any attorney over the last twenty plus. Years, he, said he called out the ACLU. Saying where are the civil libertarians, here stepping. Up to defend, attorney-client. Privilege, and. He said I'm just telling, you if the shoe was on the other foot and this was happening to Hillary Clinton and to. Some. Of her lawyers, there'd. Be outrage, from multiple, media, outlets. And. We're, not seeing very much of that so, I don't, know I mean, I don't know, exactly, where all of this is headed. But it sure, knocked, the, stuffing.
Out Of the stock market yesterday. Which is sort of an interesting way to go. To. See kind of instantaneous. Reaction. When, news breaks if it's important, enough it. Actually affects the stock that's, what we saw yesterday we, saw it really I mean it was doing it had a really, great day and then it boy did it dwindle down it's still stayed in the green but not, what it should have been though although then it's fascinating, overnight, you. Have this speech given. By the president of China, talking. About how ok we, will, we. Will do more in terms of opening up our markets to auto sales etc a lot. Of people have criticized, the president, since, the day he took office for, tweeting and, well. You're we're in the social media age yes, I mean we're live not just here on fox10, extra which is cable channel 9 we're also live on YouTube right anytime we want we pop over to the youtube comment. Box and that's what social media is all about it's. Way more interactive. Way, more you. Know just immediate. Feedback. From, people that kind of thing and so, when. You see how, social. Media kind, of impacts. You. Know the whole, political. Atmosphere. I live in yeah when President Trump yesterday, went on to social media and said this, is despite all the criticism of people who say get off Twitter mr. president which he's not gonna do now no I, thought, that was one of the most effective tweets he'd ever sent out during his presidency, when, he said look when the US when US power companies are trying to sell cars into China and they put a 25 percent tax, on, our, cars and. Then, you turn it around the other way China wants to sell cars into the US and we put two percent, tax he said that's not fair trade that's stupid. Trade that. Was big big, you know and honestly I mean it just puts it in terms that people can truly understand, right and whether that played any additional, role who knows but then you get this speech from China from the Chinese leaders there who, says ok we will open up our markets more. To carmakers, etc. The proof is in the pudding yes, but so far the market seems to like it at one point it was actually out 500 right right so we'll continue to check on that but another big story is the. Arizona National Guard heading, to. The border and we have our, very own Steve craft he is on his way to the border and we actually have him live right now here on News Now uh Steve can you hear us. Yes. I can hear you how's it going good how about you. So. What can you know fine thank you, so. What can you tell us are you're just starting out. That's. Right we're, just starting out and what, you're seeing is what we're seeing looking through the windshield here and. We're.
Heading Down i-10. We're. Headed towards, Tucson we're. Trying, to find places. Where the Arizona, National Guard's, people, who were deployed yesterday, and today, are. Going, to be providing, support services for. The, u.s. Border Patrol this. Was announced yesterday by, Governor Ducey to great fanfare we. Covered that yesterday, he, was surrounded by, National. Guard's, men and women from Arizona, and this. Is something that, President Trump, has. Encouraged. And called, for and, Governor Ducey supports, and, the, the, idea was originally, that there was a caravan, of, migrants. Who were illegally, attempting, or, going. To attempt to enter the United States and. That this is a threat and, so therefore the National Guard should be called up in border areas like, Texas, where they're already up and here. In Arizona where they're just leaving today to. Provide. Support services so more National, Guard's. People can be helping out and Border Patrol people can be freed up so there's we're boots on the ground as the governor said on, the border guarding. Against this, influx. Of illegal. Entrants. What's. Happened is that the, migrants, have largely apparently. Disbanded. Outside Mexico, City, nevertheless. The. National. Guard is. Helping. Out the Border Patrol against. A perceived threat but it's unclear what, if any threat there may be and all this comes against the backdrop of a, decade's. Long low. Of attempted. Crossings, of the border this, according to the Trump administration itself. So. The border is more secure than ever or more, heavily guarded than ever. Nevertheless the, National. Guard is called. Up and so, I've been on the phone with the guard today trying to determine, where, they. Are helping out the Border Patrol so far we haven't gotten any specific, answers as to where if, anywhere they, are so. We decided to take the initiative head, down to the Tucson Sector and. That's. Near davis-monthan, Air Force Base now, we're just going to go in there and ask the Border Patrol where, is, the National Guard helping, you guys out. And, we go to those places and show. Folks at home how the National, Guard is taking part in this mission. So, that's that's where it is right now we're heading down to Tucson and we're. Hopeful of going somewhere where the guards. Members are. Going to be arriving. That's. That's how it is I I'm, struck by the fact that we haven't gotten any specific. Destinations, from, the Border Patrol or. From the National. Guard we, asked. Yesterday. And, also this morning and the most. Specific information we're getting is there will be somewhere in the Tucson. And/or, Yuma. Border Patrol sectors. You know that, covers pretty much the entire 389. Miles order between Arizona. And Mexico okay, good love to find him right good luck finding him so you got the where questions. Steve it's Ron here if you've also got the the what what exactly will the will they be doing