1918 Flu Pandemic - Lies - Extra History
Welcome. Extra historians, to lies the. Episode where we fess up to our mistakes and flesh, out the things we skipped over today. We're doing the 1918, flu pandemic it's, a big global story we've got a lot of ground to cover you had a lot of questions a lot of Corrections, so, we're, just gonna lightning round it we're gonna go real fast. So, first. Of all we're going to talk about our recommended, reads there's two this this. Series one. Is the great influenza, by John M Barrie this, is a great book if you want to know anything about the American response effort, Welch. Park, and Williams Avery, all that good stuff. Next, Pale, Rider by. Laura Spinney great. Book has like a the global context, of the flu, it's. Sometimes, been criticized by you for. Going a little too far in some of its conclusions, but I think it's overall pretty solid, especially if you take it with a little bit of a grain of salt but. It's probably, the best, just. Global. Palette of what's going on you could possibly find so I highly recommend it. Let's. Get to like the big, embarrassing. Upside-down elephant, in the room. This. Is the flag of Germany. This. Is the flag of Yemen, so. It. Would take too long to explain exactly how a mistake. This big happened but essentially. I said, I send off photo references, when I when I finish an episode the artist sends me back a prop sheet the. Flag was upset on the prop sheet I took, the prop sheet and I took the reference, for the flag of the German Empire and went yeah, that's the same because the, pattern recognition, part of my brain has gone a broken so. And. Unfortunately we. We. Had already uploaded three, episodes worth of it by the time we released, the first one and people mention that it was upside down and you know I kind, there was something. About it that bothered me but. Then I looked at the prop sheet it was right on the prop she the prop sheet must be right right so yeah. Sorry, that's totally, my fault.
Some. Of you were a little concerned that we focused too much on the United States I actually. Agree, with you my original concept. This, series was, going. To be a lot more like, jumping, between medical, teams in different countries but, after kind of conferencing. With the artist I realized. That that was asking, way too much of them like, it it's a lot to change. Change. What country. We're portraying because it's different national costumes, modes of transportation, architecture. And they. Have to pull like I have to get a big photo library, together for every new country. And. Basically. Have them create. Unique art assets for it so, the best we can do basically was just one, episode that was just like boom boom boom boom just hitting kind, of notable, places in the world and, that, was not ideal it's not what I had envisioned originally. But it, was the best we could do I'm sorry about that. Mispronunciations. We had a few. We. Were very very busy had a difficult. Time we. Recording, stuff because we were recording so much during this period. The. Koch Institute has. The hook instead, of the Koch Institute. We. Said Arizonian. It's Arizonian, we. Said John Hopkins when, it should be Johns Hopkins, I. Can't. Remember exactly what Brown said pronunciation. We used for Manchu, but it was wrong and. Pongo. Pongo is the capital of American, Samoa not Paco Paco a lot, of these stuff for things that we flagged we just didn't, have time to fix unfortunately. So. Let's move on to Episode one what. Have you pointed out that we used the caduceus, the. Rod of Hermes as a. Symbol, for American. Medicine, and. Really, it should be the rod of Asclepius, we. Did use that for the American Medical Association because. The rod of Asclepius is the. Symbol, for the American Medical Association, but. The symbol for the US Army, Surgeon General. He. Is the rod of caduceus because, they were confused, when they picked. It in the 1900s. Excuse, me the eighteen hundred's so. Yeah. That's a mistake, but it's a historical, mistake. Some. Of you mentioned that. There's no selection pressure, toward, deadliness, in a virus that is true. But. As, long as a virus. Basically, can still spread it doesn't necessarily, matter, how definitely it is you know it's all just sort of a genetic rule with the dice and. The. Spanish flu progressively. Got more definitely while still spreading. Very, well but you were absolutely right. There. Is no selection pressure. Pushing. A virus, to be more deadly we. Also. Had. A lot very indirect. Line about the randomness, of an action natural selection we should have said the randomness of mutation. Natural. Selection is not random. Someone. Pointed out that Gila Tripp cyanosis when people turn blue, right, when they had a cytokine storm inside the, lung hole area very. Scientific. It. Didn't look like the patches that we showed, and that's true. The, thing is tinting, is a very difficult thing to do in our animation styles so we just kind of used as a cheat in, general, you'd get kind of like a purplish, tinge to your cheeks and ears and it would spread and eventually turn, you blue and. That's, how, it would really look it would just be sort of a deepening, rather. Than those patches, that we showed in the animation. Some. Of you mentioned that lug rip is. Not, a nickname for the flu it's just French for the flu true. But. English, and an, American trip started calling it that too there was this really interesting linguistic, exchange. Going on in the trenches. A. Lot. Of you mentioned that our. Section. On Ludendorff and the Spring Offensive was, an oversimplification. 100%. True rather. Than explaining all, of that because we have so little time I've, actually suggest, you just go over to the Great War and watch, every, episode because, the the Spring Offensive is just about over over, there and, they. Do a, great, job in all of their German flags are right-side up all the time I don't know how they do it. We're. Going to episode 3 now, Welch. Actually. Didn't die he, lived until 1934. That's, my fault I wrote it that way to increase. Increase. The the tension and I. Accidentally. Misinformed, people that the belch had died he had not but. He was knocked out basically, for the rest of the crisis. A. Lot. Of people wondered why. Officials. Particularly in Philadelphia, didn't treat flu seriously. Part. Of it was just focused on the war part of it was just, thinking that flu was a, seasonal. Thing that would go away but.
In Philadelphia. You, have a very special case so the mayor is a little, distracted, during this time because. He has just been indicted in, the death of a Philadelphia, policeman. You. Can go read about it his. Name is Thomas. S Smith and he was working, for the veritable, machine and. Philadelphia. But. The long and short of it is basically. He. And a bunch of his cronies during a Republican primary hired. A gang from New York to come down and beat, up their primary, opponent and a. Philadelphia. Policeman stepped in to try and defend. The guy and ended up getting shot and killed so. He was indicted for. The. Actual, charges were. Conspiracy. To commit murder and impeding. An election. We. Had. Anna. Williams kind, of look like she was the same age as William Parke actually they were exactly the same age 55. That's, again, like the shading thing right it's difficult to do someone with kind of like salt pepper hair in. Our animation style and I like the contrast of the kind of younger in Spirit Williams, with the older. And spirit Park. Some. Wondered is this Gorgas the same, guy. Who battled, yellow fever during the Panama building of the Panama Canal yes. He is I. Don't. Think he was not Surgeon General at that time but, yeah. That's Girgis yes, and that's the thing he's most famous for to this day. I'm. In episode 4. Someone. Mentioned that we seem to beacon using. Vaccine. With. Antitoxin. With serum, that vaccine is preventative that. It should include antibodies. Conceptions. Of what a vaccine, has have kind of changed a little bit but, broadly that's. Right like but we were sort of losing as a shorthand for all three of those things they were making all three and, by the way the Rockefeller, Institute wasn't. Just like hoarding, vaccines, and keeping them away from the public they. Used all their vaccines, on the army and civilian. Workers who were supporting a war effort so, it wasn't like a stingy thing of like now here get, away from our vaccines, they. Yeah. They were all gone and, some, had to be made for the civilian population. There. Was a question was there international cooperation. Largely, not. But. These. Doctors were reading, medical articles that came out in different countries, and. There. Was one interesting thing where early. Upon. Entering the war the. Rockefeller, Institute found. A very, effective treatment for gangrene, and they, started wondering, like hey should we publish, this in a in a International. Journal because then it'll help the Germans and they, have ultimately, decided, our duty, as doctors, is above our duty as soldiers so they published, it and indeed it was, used. In the German army. A lot. Of people asked if dogs. Eaten, the you pick family alive. Possibly. Because, there's a thing that happened all the way across the continent on the island of Labrador. Where. The. Village just stopped feeding the dogs because everyone got too sick to get out of bed and the. Dogs started literally jumping, through windows, and playing, indoors, and attacking people in their beds and, we know this because a guy came looking for his friend he hadn't heard from in a while and, he found the guy sitting, up in bed with a rifle across his lap a box of bullets surrounded. By dead dogs so. Yeah. Go to sleep with that. This. Is a big one why. Didn't we mention Germany, in China, so. I. When. I realized, that we hadn't put numbers for Germany in the fifth. Or sixth episode I tried, to go in and add them to the sixth week we didn't have time, the. Number I came up with was four, hundred and twenty six thousand, for, what it's worth but, the. Thing with the, German numbers is they're a little spongy, because you what you do is you get a baseline, for. What the, death rate would be in. A place at that time and then you figure out the excess, mortality, right. Very. Difficult to get a baseline on Germany, in 1918, 1919, there's, a lot of people moving around a lot of people going cannon out of the army I suspect. It's higher, than that. 426,000. German. Officers, tended to cover, up the fact their, soldiers had died of Spanish flu not, because, they didn't. Want people knowing but, because they just didn't want their, families, to know that they hadn't died in combat that they died, in the hospital, you know wasting away from a terrible disease same. Thing happened in the US Army by the way, with. China, we.
Specifically, Avoided it because China, is very. Contentious. There. Are people who think that. It. Had a really. Really high death rate and that's based on reports, from Western missionaries that were going up in the mountain villages but it could just be that those more isolated, communities got hit, hard. There. Are people who think it really doesn't hit that hard at all because there doesn't seem to be the same kind of thing in China you don't have like mass graves in Shanghai, and Beijing I looked. Here in Hong Kong and, I, didn't, really find anything and that. Might suggest that it emerged from China and most. People were immune from the, mild first wave, we. Cut out like a bunch of other possible, origins. There's. One from a military hospital in France, some. People think that migrating, Canadian geese spread, it. Basically. Name. Name. A country and there's a theory about it we. Could take this whole episode of just talking about emergence, theories but we we picked two that we thought were pretty likely if, you're curious about that sample of Spanish flu it's in a CDC lab in a very secure, area, they've, sequence its genome now and, we. Don't really know though at, what point. What. Point that sample comes from so, is it from the more, mild wave is it from the, deadly second wave I had it been mutated and become less virulent. We. Don't know so. It's it's a little bit difficult to know if how. Good a sample that is but they're working on it. One. Thing I wanted to point out that we didn't get to in episode 6 is that. The. Way that. The. Horrors of World War one, sort. Of killed the optimism. About technology. And human, progress a similar. Thing happened in medicine with Spanish flu so. They're. Like. Major doctors. Before. The the outbreak were talking. About like in, 50 years communicable, disease may disappear, we, may have a disease for your future and. Victor. Vaughn who we briefly, had. In, the episode he was the guy charting the disease on the map has a great quote about this. The. Saddest part of my life was, when I went us the hundreds, of deaths of the soldiers in the army camps and did, not know what, to do. At that moment I decided, never again to. Prate about the great achievements, of medical science and to, humbly admit our dense. Ignorant, in this case I saw. Hundreds, of young. Stalwart. Men in uniform. Coming. To the wards of the hospital, every. Bed was full yet. Others crowded in the. Faces were a bluish cast a cough, brought, up the blood-stained, sputum. Let's. Go through some famous victims of Spanish flu that we didn't have in the episodes the, first one we did mention was President Wilson but I wanted to add a little color to that so, Wilson, drops. In the, middle of the negotiations. In Paris for. What will become the Treaty of Versailles, and he. Is bedridden, with, what we now suspect was Spanish flu and. Probably. Brought on the stroke that later killed him. What's. A, big, issue with that is the fact that he was one of the main people that wanted, an equitable, equitable, treaty, with, Germany because. He believed peace in Europe was not possible, if, they forced a punishing, treaty on the Central, Powers. So. How. Might history have been different because once he dropped. It. Was done like, he lost all his strength he abandoned, all of his positions, he just got walked over my table. So. In addition to, him. We have the president-elect, of Brazil. Rodriguez Alvis he's, interesting, because he. Was very pro-vaccine and in his first term of office he. Actually. Instigated. Something or he. Put. In a policy of mandatory vaccination. That led to something called the vaccine, revolt so, yeah. He was a big proponent of medical science actually. To the point where. People. Ended up rising up against him because, they didn't like medical. Teams breaking down their doors and forcing them to get vaccinations, understandable. We. Also have Clementine Churchill, wife of Winston Churchill. John. And Horace Dodge Brothers who found a Dodge Motor Company. Kings. Kaiser Wilhelm King. George the fifth of the United Kingdom. Hale, Solis Emperor, of Ethiopia probably. Mispronouncing, that I'm sorry king. Alfonso xiii of, spain. Writers. And artists TS. Eliot Raymond, Chandler D. H Lawrence Franz. Kafka, Georgia. O'Keefe the American painter advert. Muench who painted a self-portrait, while, he had Spanish flu called self-portrait. With Spanish flu. Austrian. Painters Egon. Shila and Gustav Klimt they, both died I wanted to repeat that because if, Klimt, did die from Spanish fluid it argues for an earlier emergence, we.
Have It being. In 1917, 1918. It. Would have had to have come yeast. Into, Europe. If. If Klimt died from it we're still not sure a. Bunch, of silent film actresses, including Mary Pickford and Lillian Gish survived. Margaret. Dumont who is the rich widow and all the Marx Brothers movies was a Spanish flu survivor. And, in religion, in, 1917. Three, Shepherd children reported. Seeing a vision of the Virgin Mary in the Portuguese parish of Fatima. After. A series of miracles prophecies, and Marian. Apparitions. Which. Are still remembered and venerated today as Our Lady of Fatima two. Of the children made a prophecy, that, they would die in the Spanish flu outbreak. And. Unfortunately. It, came true they died that was their last prophecy, so. Finally, Walpole. We've, got a little unusual one today so. I. Have. A, little. Excerpt. From a diary from Horace and that Horace Walpole kept during. A flu epidemic in, 1743. The. Last ships have brought over all your epidemic, distempers, not a family in London has scaped under five or six ill many, people have been forced to hire new laborers Grenada. The apothecary took two new apprentices, and yet could not drug, all his patients it, has a cold and fever I had, one of the worst and was. Blooded on Saturday, and Sunday he means bleeding. But. It is quite gone my. Father was blooded last night this. Is but slight. The, physicians say there has been nothing like it since the Year 33, and then, not so bad the bill of mortality, the death rate mostly, the same in short. Our army abroad would shudder to see what streams of blood have been let out of, course his father Robert. Walpole how. Does this connect the 1918, flu pandemic, well. Flu strains are related it's, very likely or possible I should say rather. Than likely that, the, Spanish flu was a descendant. Of this flu, thanks. For joining us today come, back next week we'll be heading down to the Indonesian, archipelago and, the island, of Java or, will see Hindu Buddhist kingdoms war for control over, the lucrative, spice trade it's, gonna be a ton, of backstabbing. And Mongo fleets and. Probably. One. Of the trickiest. Characters. We have ever had on extra history. This. Guy is neat tune. In there's. Gonna be war from elephant back and all. Sorts of neat stuff so, see. You next week when we explore the kingdom of Mercia Pyatt.